#(but mainly sansa)

[greywoe]

child ward in search of belonging indulges in juvenile fantasies as a coping mechanism. sad!

[helaenacoded]

jon snow haters LOVEEE to bring up grrm said he was morally gray and he isn’t as good a person everyone thinks, as if their favs haven’t either killed innocents, is literally a pedophile or r*ped people..??

(stannis, cersei, jaime, robert, theon.. the list can GO ON)

[inkandarsenic]

embrace the world in grey

Two Wolves are sent North. Deep in the North, beyond the Wall, a lone Wolf survives the cold. A Young Wolf lies in the dark, and waits for rescue. Winter draws ever nearer. or, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives

Fix it fic, Stark Family Feels

This fic made me laugh and made me sob like a baby. It's got amazing world building and Robb povs which i love in a fic because my man is underrepresented in fics imho. The Dany in this fic is the Dany I miss from the earlier seasons, and this fic is everything I wanted from the later seasons. 12/10, definitely going to read again.

[atopvisenyashill]

i cannot shit on sanrion that much, i think of the creepyshipping ones that one is the one with the most canon basis and the most likely to happen of those ships, and also as a theonsa esp re: tyrion, i'm really living in a glass house here because they have basically the exact same drawbacks. but any ending for sansa that involves her being eclipsed by her husband, living in the westerlands, having lannister babies, genuinely makes me feel ill. if she's with tyrion, it's because he has fully given up his right to inherit casterly rock, and they are both serving Bran in Harrenhal. anything else is unthinkably frustrating and misogynistic to me.

[g0lightly]

Brienne of Tarth's parallels to Elissa Farman

Something I just noticed. In Fire & Blood, we're told that Elissa Farman was betrothed twice -- at 12 and 16 -- but "frightened off" both suitors.

Brienne of Tarth has been betrothed three times:

The first time she was only seven and the boy died two years later

Her second betrothal was to Red Ronnet, whom she met when she was 12; it could be said that she scared him off during that meeting, seeing as her appearance put him off from the betrothal (as sad and awful as that is).

Her third betrothal was to Ser Humfrey, a man in his 60s that she quite literally fought off at the age of 16.

In addition to the fact that the Fair Isle is a bit like a west coast version of Tarth, I think it's interesting that Brienne and Elissa both scared off their betrothed at the ages of 12 and 16. Though Brienne had one prior betrothal, that was not a factor in it ending

[patrocles]

i’ve been stricken with the impulse to write jeyne/sansa (mid 20s, themes of trauma recovery, sexual repression/touch starvation, patriarchal beauty standards, ptsd, the usual thematic suspects)

[baronmpontmercy]

I can’t believe I’ve been an asoiaf fan for a significant portion of my life and yet have not written a single word of fic outside OC specific stuff

[decomposingfungi]

this has probably been said before, and i've seen a lot of meta talking about sansa as persephone, mainly because of this undeniable reference in the text:

and lady stoneheart as demeter works too — a heartbroken mother wreaking havoc on the land because her daughter has been stolen from her, winter and death taking over along with her pain and rage.

but i haven’t seen many people analyzing the persephone parallels with arya, and they work so well!! arya has been taken away by the god of death himself — she’s training to become a faceless assassin, an agent of death and murder, just like persephone was stolen by hades and had to become the queen of the dead. arya is so deeply linked with death (she’s the ghost of harrenhal, she’s the faceless assassin) that her connection to persephone feels really compelling.

i believe both sansa and arya are persephone — they’re tied together in so many other ways, like how they both parallel lyanna. they’re both lost daughters to a mother turned monster. and since i believe it’ll be arya who eventually faces lady stoneheart and puts her to rest, the persephone parallels become even stronger with her: demeter stops the winter when her daughter is returned to her. lady stoneheart will stop her killing when one of her daughters comes back to her, ready to offer mercy and put an end to the winter.

and only when the two daughters are home, reunited in winterfell at last, spring will finally come to westeros.

[esther-dot]

I wanted to do a poll on what the Jonsa fam makes of this theory, but I thought a refresher might be in order. In 2014, this post was made on Reddit:

[click to read the rest]

Most people agreed the suitor would be Aegon, even some Jonsas because the general supposition was that with the way things went in The Hedge Knight ( interrupted with a trial of the seven so no declared champion), none of Sansa's suitors that align with this pattern would be endgame. However, it's possible to say it's a hint, not a one-for-one replay. After all, the fair maid in The Hedge Knight was never going to marry the guy left standing, so the last suitor will be a Targ following the pattern, but Sansa will end up with him, diverging from there. And more importantly, with Sansa heading home, Aegon in the South potentially marrying Arianne, via process of elimination, other Jonsas thought the more likely option for a Targ suitor for Sansa was the other Targaryen: Jon.

The Jonsa variation really took off with the Game of Thrones fandom because Aegon didn't exist in the show and then they claimed Jon's name was Aegon Targaryen (???), but mainly because the most popular GoT BNF/YouTuber presented the theory and got it to go mainstream in 2016 and in 2021 when it was safe admitted he believes it lol.

But Jonsas have found more grounds for this to seem plausible, pointing out that Jon is near whenever marriage is discussed for Sansa:

[click to read more]

Jonsas noted that every suitor Sansa has encountered thus far in her story is a sore disappointment (and a threat to her!), but there are lines that indicate eventually she will find herself with someone worthy or even...a dragon:

[click to read more]

And that not only does Jon have parallels with or is contrasted with Sansa's suitors thus far, he is brought to mind with a certain description of Valarr:

which sounds an awful lot like Jon...

[click for much, much more]

And interestingly enough, it isn’t just the last names that are the same between the fair maid’s champions and Sansa’s suitors, or some similarities between Valarr and Jon. Nope, there are quite a few fun tidbits:

[read the rest!]

So what do you think? All a coincidence? An imminent betrothal to Aegon? It’s totally Jonsa?

Please feel free to add your thoughts and/or link meta you enjoy on this topic to persuade the voters your way. I'll post a poll in a few days!

[coraniaid]

It’s always very odd to me when I read criticism of A Song Of Ice And Fire online (by which I mainly mean: on Tumblr) which takes for granted that this is some sort of obsessively dark and edgy and mean-spirited fantasy, because ... that's not what the series is actually like at all?  

I mean, yes, some awful (and graphically described) stuff happens in these books, but this is at heart a deeply optimistic and almost embarrassingly romantic story, full of a very obvious sympathy and tenderness for the unhappy and the hurt and the powerless.  The weird gritty-for-the-sake-of-it books that the series's detractors describe wouldn't have recurring POV characters like Sansa Stark or Tyrion Lannister or Davos Seaworth or Samwell Tarly or Brienne of Tarth.  They certainly wouldn't obviously empathize with and respect these characters to the extent the actual books do.  They wouldn't be so obsessive about the importance of hope and kindness and understanding in an otherwise uncaring world.  Whenever the text suggests the world isn't fair or kind there's always an unspoken "but it should be,and I wish it was". You are clearly not meant to think that characters like Roose Bolton or Twyin Lannister are being held up as role models to emulate!

I mean, maybe the TV show is more like that -- I gave up on the show after only a couple of seasons, it was a terrible adaptation of the source material, even before the final season that everyone apparently hated -- but so much of the open disdain for ASOIAF I come across on here reads like the people writing the posts haven't even read a single one of the books. Yes, the popularity of ASOIAF inspired a lot of "dark" fantasy novels that actually are bleakly nihilistic and seem to revel in their characters meeting pointlessly sad and violent ends, but Martin's books are just not like that.

Yes, lots of the world-building for ASOIAF is patently ridiculous, and yes, key parts of the plot are just cribbed from the War of the Roses (or, rather, from historical novels like Sharon Penman's The Sunne in Splendour)  and yes, Martin has said some very stupid things in interviews while busy not writing the series.  And no, I'm not sure I could actually bring myself to recommend the books to anyone who's not read them before (especially when it's so unlikely that the series will ever be finished, let alone in a satisfying way).  I haven’t reread them myself in years.

But honestly, back when I was a quietly miserable teenager these books really meant a lot to me, in part because they are the opposite of the caricature often discussed online.  Yes, they acknowledged that sometimes the world was awful and unbearable.  It is!  But they also suggested that it was still important to try to be fair and kind and to appreciate the moments when things were better.  They are books about trying to do the right thing even when it’s so hard as to seem impossible and nobody else will even know that you tried, written in a way that takes for granted that “the right thing” is also the just and the optimistic and the quietly heroic thing; that doing the right thing when you afraid is more praiseworthy than never being afraid at all. And it is baffling to me how often I see people talking about them now who don't actually seem to have ever even skimmed them but are still vocally passionate in their hatred of something that, as they describe it, simply doesn't exist.

[greylittlebird]

“Stansas are illiterate and can’t handle canon” they say in the same sentence they insist Sansa called Arya “Horseface” (when that is clearly a misremembering) and say that Sansa “abused Arya to the point she ruined her self-esteem” when Sansa called Arya ugly literally once in a very unserious way during a fight, and Arya’s insecurity about her looks is about way more than Sansa.

Let’s start with Arya Horseface. In AGOT, in a paragraph that is otherwise entirely complaining about Sansa, Arya specifies that Jeyne used to call her Horseface. Not Sansa and Jeyne, not they, Jeyne. The only thing Arya constantly says about Sansa in relation to her own appearance is that Sansa is prettier than her (by her perception and other people’s). Not that Sansa “relentlessly bullied her” about her appearance, but that Sansa just is considered prettier and Arya is unfavorably compared to her by other people (mainly by implication in that Sansa is frequently complimented for her appearance and Arya isn’t).

It wasn't fair. Sansa had everything. Sansa was two years older; maybe by the time Arya had been born, there had been nothing left. Often it felt that way. Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful. Sansa had gotten their mother's fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys. Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn. Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. It hurt that the one thing Arya could do better than her sister was ride a horse. Well, that and manage a household. Sansa had never had much of a head for figures. If she did marry Prince Joff, Arya hoped for his sake that he had a good steward. - A Game Of Thrones - Arya 1

One book later, Arya mentions this again and this time says vaguely “they” called her Arya Horseface. She’s no longer even thinking about who said it, just that someone did.

At Winterfell they had called her "Arya Horseface" and she'd thought nothing could be worse, but that was before the orphan boy Lommy Greenhands had named her "Lumpyhead." - A Clash of Kings - Arya 1

It’s not until later in ACOK that Arya says for the first time in the series that Sansa specifically called her Horseface.

She bit her lip, groping for another name. Lommy had called her Lumpyhead, Sansa used Horseface, and her father's men once dubbed her Arya Underfoot, but she did not think any of those were the sort of name he wanted. - A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

Also worth noting that in this same conversation, literally a couple lines before, Arya had to take a second to remember how old she is so that’s how reliable her memory is this first time she ever “remembers” that Sansa supposedly called her Horseface after mentioning it multiple times and never specifying Sansa said it. Of course she isn’t thinking about Jeyne Poole right now, she’s much more likely to attach that memory to someone associated with Jeyne who is one of the few people on her mind still at this point in her traumatic journey.

The lord regarded her. Only his eyes moved; they were very pale, the color of ice. "How old are you, child?"

She had to think for a moment to remember. "Ten." - A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

Moving on, the broader issue of Arya’s insecurity about her appearance is complicated. There’s not one singular cause for it. One is that Arya is an outsider partially because of her appearance being more Stark-like and less “Southern” which is the conventional standard in an imperialist society, similar to how the eurocentric beauty standards have become the convention in our post-colonized world. And in this world, not fitting that standard and there being any question about whether you’re a “real” member of the highest class is extremely perilous.

Jon had their father's face, as she did. They were the only ones. Robb and Sansa and Bran and even little Rickon all took after the Tullys, with easy smiles and fire in their hair. When Arya had been little, she had been afraid that meant that she was a bastard too. It had been Jon she had gone to in her fear, and Jon who had reassured her. - A Game of Thrones - Arya I

Another factor is, as I said already, that adults around them consistently compliment Sansa’s appearance and not Arya’s. Some even go so far as to insult Arya’s appearance in comparison to Sansa.

Sansa's needlework was exquisite. Everyone said so. "Sansa's work is as pretty as she is," Septa Mordane told their lady mother once. "She has such fine, delicate hands." When Lady Catelyn had asked about Arya, the septa had sniffed. "Arya has the hands of a blacksmith." - A Game of Thrones - Arya I

"Well," Arya said, "my hair's messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard." Robb wouldn't care about that, probably, but her mother would. Lady Catelyn always wanted her to be like Sansa, to sing and dance and sew and mind her courtesies. Just thinking of it made Arya try to comb her hair with her fingers, but it was all tangles and mats, and all she did was tear some out. "I ruined that gown that Lady Smallwood gave me, and I don't sew so good." She chewed her lip. "I don't sew very well, I mean. Septa Mordane used to say I had a blacksmith's hands."

Gendry hooted. "Those soft little things?" he called out. "You couldn't even hold a hammer." - A Storm of Swords - Arya VII

The Blacksmith’s hands line from Septa Mordane (which fuck the Septa, all my homies hate the Septa) comes up again in Arya’s insecurities and her comparisons of herself to Sansa. But Sansa calling her “ugly and hairy like Hodor” that one time doesn’t.

Conclusion/Golden Child vs Scapegoat

I’m not arguing Sansa is completely innocent in Arya’s insecurity, clearly Sansa internalized and to an extent perpetuated these comparisons made by the adults around them and saw Arya as worse than her. But she didn’t start or create this dynamic. This is the classic Golden Child vs Scapegoat dynamic that harms both children and their relationship with each other. You can see this harm when in Sansa’s chapters (which Im not convinced these people actually read except to skim with Bad Faith), a lot of the reason she thinks negatively of Arya is because she is extremely anxious and worried about approval from others. Sansa is constantly worried about being “like Arya”, of becoming the Scapegoat. She is not confident or comfortable with herself either, in her own way Sansa is as insecure as Arya. When Sansa speaks up for herself in the slightest way and dares not to act like a perfectly submissive doll, the immediate response from adults is to weaponize the Scapegoating of Arya to shut her down.*

And Sansa projects that fear and insecurity onto Arya as she’s been taught to by Catelyn and Septa Mordane and others around them. Especially in moments of distress, her fear comes out as “I’m not like Arya, I’m the good one!” not because she’s an evil abuser but because the fear of being “like Arya” has been used to coercively control her. Obviously it’s shitty and unfair to Arya and you can dislike Sansa for it, but the fact is it’s also shitty and unfair to Sansa though perhaps to a “lesser” extent. That’s the nature of this type of abuse.

*as just one illustrative not exhaustive example of that, when Sansa literally just states the fact that Lady is a Direwolf and that her father, whose authority supersedes the Septa, said she could have her. And the immediate response is to denigrate her with an Arya comparison. This illustrates how pervasive this dynamic is in casual circumstances.

"She's not a dog, she's a direwolf," Sansa pointed out as Lady licked her fingers with a rough tongue. "Anyway, Father said we could keep them with us if we want."

The septa was not appeased. "You're a good girl, Sansa, but I do vow, when it comes to that creature you're as willful as your sister Arya." She scowled. - A Game of Thrones - Sansa I

It’s fair to say that Sansa treats Arya unfairly and contributes to the environment of bullying she experienced, and it’s fine to personally dislike her character for that. But to say that Arya’s insecurity about her apparence is because of Sansa “relentlessly bullying her” and that Sansa is an abuser comparable to Viserys (which they say no one actually said and Stansas are “whining and can’t read” but then immediately defended the comparison). And not blame the entire culture of patriarchal, oppressive adults around both girls is absurd and not what the text shows no matter how much y’all wanna say it’s “canon”. We never see Sansa tell Arya she’s ugly except, again, one time that was clearly a childish outburst and is never thought on seriously again. We never see her call Arya “Horseface” and most likely it’s a misremembering as I’ve illustrated.

And to pretend Sansa is not also a victim in this toxic dynamic created by Catelyn and Septa Mordane and the sexist society at large that demands all girls meet the impossible standards even Sansa can’t reach and be protected by at all (which is the point GRRM is making, Sansa unlike Arya fits all the standards and tries so hard to be what she’s supposed to be but still loses because there’s no winning this rigged game no matter how hard you try) is a highly biased and superficial reading. If you don’t like Sansa, if she reminds you of the girls who bullied you in Middle School and you aren’t interested in her perspective, that’s fine, but don’t try to tell her fans who have analyzed her far more in-depth than you have or are interested in ever doing that we’re “illiterate” just because you want to grossly exaggerate her flaws and their impact to suit your bias.

[dragondreamers]

MY LIST OF ASOIAF SHIPS (mainly show canons)

Visenya Targaryen/Rhaenys Targaryen

art by wweskywalker

Rhaenyra Targaryen/Alicent Hightower

art by debustee

Laena Velaryon/Rhaenyra Targaryen

art by wweskywalker

Baela Targaryen/Helaena Targaryen

art by wweskywalker

Jacaerys Velaryon/Helaena Targaryen

art by lonelymagpies

Daenerys Targaryen/Sansa Stark

art by elithienart

Arya Stark/Gendry Waters

art by alexielapri

Sansa Stark/Margaery Tyrell

art by daewithmon

+ bonus (with no art): Jaehaera Targaryen/Daenaera Velaryon, Rhea Royce/Laena Velaryon, Alys Harroway/Tyanna of the Tower

[ai-manre]

As a veteran of westeros.org, it's so funny that Jon and Dany being together is now considered by many as a stepdown for Jon.

Back in the day, if you suggested Jon and Dany get together, most people used to accuse you of being a rabid Jon stan trying to make him into a Gary Stu who gets everything, claims and dragons and the love of the most beautiful woman in the world.

And from my observations from then till now (my personal observation, there might be outliers), there are mainly two types of jonsa shippers that used to exist then (and evolved in number now):

1) those who are actually Sansa stans and want her to have the best guy possible. In-universe there are many great guys like Willas Tyrell, but at a narrative level, Jon is one of the big damn heroes who is also able-bodied and likely good-looking

2) A extreme type of Jon stans who really don't want Jon to get together with a woman who is his equal. On westeros.org and reddit back in the day, they used to really hate on JonxDany and their rhetoric would make it clear that it was because that would mean Dany wouldn't be the villain whom Jon will defeat and from whom he will take everything. Instead, she will be his equal or even his superior, who has equal or more narrative importance and messianic potential in the story. That they both might be Azor Ahai and not Jon alone. Many such stans much preferred Jon get together with a more "passive" and "safe" woman who would always be secondary to him and that Dany would be a villain instead.

[queen-helaenas-pet-spider]

Out of all the ASOIAF characters that want Sansa Stark, Sandor Clegane is the ONLY ONE that HATES HIMSELF for it! Unlike SO MANY other men in this series {who will see someone they like and take them with no hesitation, and zero regard to that desired person and everyone else around them}, from the moment Sandor laid his Stark like grey eyes on her, and every blessed second he had with her after that, he actually FOUGHT those desires {which were made worse by his alcoholism}! He KNOWS Sansa is far too young for him, far too sweet for him, and miles above his station! He's SEEN how the world treats people like her! And most importantly, Sandor WAS HER!

Like Sansa, Sandor thought his life would be like the songs. While Sansa dreamt of being some beautiful, brave, gentle, and strong man's Lady or Queen and then be the mother of his children, Sandor dreamt of being a knight. They trusted too much, wanted to be loved by everyone, and had their lives shattered in the most DEVASTATING ways. And while their traumas affect them differently, she's still the ONLY one on the entire planet that TRULY understands him {you could argue that Arya *Sansa's little sister* does too, but not as much as Sansa}. And while Sandor grew to HATE everything about knights, the songs, etc, part of him still WANTS to be the kind of hero that he and Sansa used to love. And despite his many flaws, he's actually one of the very few "true knights" in the series.

And so, unlike those many men, Sandor fought his feelings for Sansa by trying to DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM HER. He stayed close enough to be sweet to her and protect her, of course, but also tried to make himself look as awful as possible. Said lots of cruel and lewd things, called her Little Bird, Child, Girl, etc instead of My Lady, Lady Sansa, Lady Stark, or just Sansa. And even after she REJECTED HIM, he also reminded a group of men {as well as himself} who were speaking ill of Sansa that not only is Sansa a LADY, but a PROPER LITTLE LADY. But to his great surprise and even greater despair, instead of watching her run for her life like everyone else does, all of his attempts to preserve what little honor they have left, only make {sadly just Book} Sansa all but CLING TO HIM like a damn FACEHUGGER.

Sadly, there were a few times {mainly in the books} where Sandor slipped up {mainly while he was drunk, which was almost the whole time they knew each other} and almost turned into Gregor {Sandor's older brother that's like ten to twenty million times worse} and all of those other men. He checked Sansa out, made some sexual comments about her still growing body, grabbed her too tight, broke in her room while she wasn't there and slept in her empty bed, pinned her to her bed at knifepoint, allegedly led a raping and killing spree at Saltpans, and admitted to Arya that he regrets not raping Sansa and tearing her heart out before he reluctantly left King's Landing without her.

But as disappointing as it sounds, Sandor {who again was almost always insanely drunk during those times} realized what he was doing, quickly stopped, and then went back to being what she REALLY needed at that time: Her guardian angel. Her dearest true knight. {I know, I know! "The bare minimum!", "The bar is in hell!", but Sansa and all the other girls and women in this series are BARELY even getting that!} He's innocent of what happened at Saltpans {it was another huge man, Rorge, who somehow got his grubby paws on Sandor's famous Hound helmet, and then wore it during the spree}. Also, Sandor's "confession" to Arya was made while he was literally DYING from some injuries he sustained while fighting that same group of men that were speaking ill of Sansa {which in my mind was Sandor trying to kill himself cause he just learned that the one he loves most married a man that they hated *and for good reason*, is accused of killing a king that they hated *and for good reason*, and is now on the run} and was hoping to be PUT OUT OF HIS MISERY. And since Arya didn't want to, he said awful things that he DID NOT MEAN FOR EVEN A MILLISECOND, things he KNEW would finally get her to change her mind, only for it to backfire on him BIG TIME.

While everyone else that wants Sansa Stark only wants her for her CLAIM, her STOLEN ANCESTRAL HOME, and her STILL DEVELOPING WOMB, Sandor Clegane is the ONLY ONE among them that wants Sansa because he actually LOVES HER. And though he many never know that Sansa DOES love him back {the way Sansa talks about Sandor in her chapters is DEFINITELY NOT out of hatred, though it would be understandable if it was. And if I told y'all to take a shot every time Sandor is mentioned in Sansa's chapters, y'all would die of alcohol poisoning} and get to be with her in that way, just seeing her and protecting her one last time would probably be enough for him. And if it isn't, well, then he'll probably just leave her again {either the normal way or through dying}. Because the only thing WORSE than never ending up with Sansa Stark is turning into his older brother.

[cummin4cregan]

stuff i hate about the asoiaf fandom!!

1. certain characters stans;

In this fuckass fandom, theres like an unspoken rule that if you like one character, you have to hate every other character and harass their fans. This applies to EVERYONE!! It’s exhausting. Examples being the rivalry stans; Jaime and Cersei, Daenerys and Jon, Daenerys and Young Griff, and even Daenerys and Sansa, not to mention Arya and Sansa.

2. making their own plot

Many fans of Asoiaf series tend to create their own fanon story in their minds. Some of y’all portray your favorite characters as having no flaws and sometimes will purposefully mischaracterize or misunderstand ones you don’t like simply because they don’t like those characters stans. They will twist the CANON TEXT if someone says something they disagree with AND attempt to provoke reactions from stans of characters they dislike by intentionally making things up. YOU DO NOTTTT need to make things up to defend your favorite characters. Its genuinely unnecessary especially when your fav ALSO HAS FLAWS…

example;

jon snow fans bringing up daenerys killing that crazy ass lady who murdered her unborn child, and mischaracterizes her by saying it was “wrong” or “evil” but then daenerys stans saying jon went around murdering wildlings by torching them on fire who wanted to escape and saying he tortured his prisoners and enjoyed it but “nobody ever mentions it!!!” PROBABLY BECAUSE IT WASN’T ANYWHERE IN THE BOOK LMFAOO.????

3. show vs books

Both fandoms can be annoying as SHIT, but one thing that really bothers me (and probably everyone else) is the fact some fans cannot distinguish the show and book canons. FOR INSTANCE; when fans of Jaime defend him against Cersei fans who point out that he RAPED Cersei in front of their DEAD SON in the show, they often retaliate by mentioning she slept with their SIXTEEN YEAR OLD cousin, which only occurs in the BOOKS (lancel is like 22 in show canon) It's genuinely so irritating to see them pick and choose which canon to defend their favorite characters, especially when the show and books are EXTREMELY DIFFERENT.

4. struggling with opinions:

I don’t know why so many people who like this series genuinely cannot handle opinions that aren’t their own. If someone thinks there’s more than one Azor Ahai, that’s FINE! Some of y’all forget the books aren’t finished yet—there’s still time for shit to happen..

If you think either Arya or Sansa will become Queen in the North, THAT’S FINE!!! You don’t need to ARGUE with people about it or CRY AND SEETHE just because you don’t agree that it’ll happen. If you think Young Griff is Aegon—good for you! If you don’t—also good for you.

If you dislike a character because they have traits written to make them PURPOSELY UNLIKABLE (Catelyn, Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, Tywin), that’s genuinely fine. You don’t need to call people names or claim they’re misogynistic, misandrist, or braindead, or say they have no media literacy because of it.. Y’all do not need to make up BULLSHIT or purposely rile people up just because they disagree with you.

5. harassing workers!

Not only do some of y’all harass fans, but you will go out of your way to harass actors, writers of the shows, and the author himself. Y’all genuinely act like these people murdered your family—you will make fun of their appearance for doing their jobs, call them untalented and annoying because the writers made a decision for THEIR FICTIONAL CHARACTER they had no say in. Be so fr, do you ppl not have JOBS?? I’m convinced the author HATES YOUU because y’all are ungrateful, PARASOCIAL, AND WEIRD.

(This was mainly about HOTD fans, because why do y’all act like the Dance of Dragons is a real war and that the actors have the same rivalry as they do onscreen...)

Y’all aren’t entitled to shit, and I genuinely hope the author never gives you a new book in the main series, because y’all act like babies.