#I've seen some very decent redemptions of Jason

[never-seen-again]

Redemption and Jägerman: The Half-assed Character Analysis

Hi, yes, this is going to be very long and probably a decently niche thing, so if you don't care about one random person effectively infodumping about how they view Max as a character, I'm not going to make you scroll for too long (aka I'm going to try to put in a break) (this bitch is so fucking long). (Edit: things get serious, so like, if you want things to be light and fluffy just keep scrolling my dude)

So, you've decided to suffer through my madness. Good luck. I'm going to be talking about a few main topics: Disillusionment & Confronting the Problem, Cognitive Dissonance & Rationalization Reinforcing Behavior, and Expectations in Redemption. I'm going to close out with some background info on myself to give context to the POV these ideas are coming from. If only one or two sections seem interesting I'm going to make the sections clearly marked out for better skipping around.

Disillusionment & Confronting the Problem

I don't think Max has heard a single thing he hasn't wanted to hear from someone he wasn't actively dehumanizing in several years. He's been surrounded by yes-men for at least the run of the musical, but almost definitely longer in "reality".

The Jocks we see (Kyle and Jason if I remember correctly) are, from what I've seen, cleansed of most/all culpability based off of their response to Max asked if they should let Richie go unscathed (and their later apologies to Richie and Grace, which are far more important, even if they are a bit half-assed with the 'until max comes back' part). While they do say "ha-ha, Yeah," It reads more as a 'oh, Max asked a question, just immediately agree with him' to me. They don't even stop to think about the content of the question. Blind agreement. I think the fact that neither moves from their position of boxing Richie in says that regardless of what Max asked, the response would've been the same.

These two even follow up with the unprompted commentary on Grace, who prior to Max's intervention in this scene was firmly in the "Loser" category. I bring this up because yes, these two stop the bullying after Max's death. But while Max is undoubtedly the catalyst, I can't be sure he's the cause. We would need to know what Hatchetfield High would look like either a long while before or after Max's influence or an alternate version of it wherein Max was simply never part of the equation to be sure.

(I'm going to go into the Pasqualli's scene and Jason's acceptance of Peter in the next section, so I'm not going to address it here)

While I was in high school, I had conversations, one on one, with people who I would, on large, consider assholes. In these conversations, they were like, decent people. But in their groups, they were still assholes. Could I see myself willingly hanging out with them as they were? No. But were they the people they were when one on one? Maybe. There is something to be said about social pressures to conform, but I won't get into that clusterfuck.

There are very few instances of anyone actually standing up to Max. Peter stands up to him, but he's a "Loser" (A concept I refine in the next section), Jason expresses doubt but doesn't direction challenge Max. The only person who isn't a "Loser" who shows intention of standing up to Max is Steph. Who, on the way to put into motion something that would possibly confront Max, gets pulled into Grace's Bully the Bully plan instead.

Not even adults seem to have put in any amount of work to actually trying to remedy Max's behavior. They just ship him out to an anti-bullying assembly and call it a day. In the Bathroom scene we learn that Max has "cool-kid privilege," in regards to actual disciplinary action, which to be fair likely wouldn't fix anything, but it shows the complacency of adults here if he has literally never been suspended or at least given detention for all the shit he's pulled both within the musical and what we can infer happening before it.

While I doubt Steph alone could break through the yes-men and "Fix" Max with just one conversation, I think she could place a seed of doubt in his mind. And Max isn't dumb. There's only two things that point to poor academics that I can recall: Remedial Algebra, and the tutor. And that doesn't really prove anything. I myself have nearly failed math classes, and I'm really good at math! Knowing this, either Max will either think through enough of the opposition of someone he respects, or he'll dismiss it entirely. Which is our first step toward Redemption.

Cognitive Dissonance & Rationalization Reinforcing Behavior

Max has categorized every student into one of two groups "Loser" and not that. These are somewhat absolutist titles. No one changes groups, ever. Except for Grace. Something I'll touch on later in this section. First I want to talk about this Fundamental Fixedness and how it contributes to my perception of Max. I believe he's constructed a very fragile way of maintaining himself. He's been to enough anti-bullying assemblies to get the gist that hurting people is generally considered bad. Whether that's internalized or not, I don't know. But again, I think he's smart. But he still hurts people. A lot. What if those he brands as "Losers" aren't quite people in his eyes. Still human, still whatever else, but lesser. Able to be abused without consequence. After all, he doesn't get any.

Now, I don't think he was birthed into this world with this conception. I think he trended toward popular crowds in primary education, and became a standard order bully. Emulating the behaviors of those above him in standing at this point, something small at first. Something justifiable. Like beating up a kid who snitched on a friend of Max's. As small actions had to be justified, the gulf between "Loser" and not expanded, to the point of dehumanizing "Losers." Then as he kept rising the ranks of popularity, he reached the top. But then he needed to extend a gulf between himself and the other popular people, to make his position infallible. He became their god (or in "reality" developed a God Complex). He alienated the "Losers" before alienating himself.

Now, what would happen if a "Loser" rose to the rank of not "Loser"? suddenly Max would have to contend with that he's actually hurt someone worth something. And if one person can rise past his labeling, then others could to, and he's hurt way more people than he realized.

But where does this leave Grace? Well, I don't think Max has actually placed her out of the "Loser" category. I think he's giving her special privilege until he gets what he wants out of her. There's a few posts that talk about how Grace's abstinence is a symbol of her faith in the Christian god, and how in sacrificing her chastity to the LiB she also sacrifices her faith to them. What if Max has a similar thought. That in acquiring the 'forbidden fruit' as it were he gains power, or more realistically, a greater sense of control. Max presumably hasn't shown interest before now. He's likely had other games he played for feelings of control.

Now, how could any of this possibly be an argument in favor of Max. Well, the next Step to Redemption would be abandoning the Fundamental Fixedness and taking on the burden of his actions. He has to contend with all the things he's justified under the dichotomy. The only reason I ever considered Max to be redeemable is because he makes it halfway through this step in the Musical. He accepts that maybe these roles can't be Fixed positions, specifically for people he isn't trying to get anything out of. Then he fucking dies. But he does abandon this ideology. Unfortunately the acquisition of supernatural powers and the drunken anger he felt as he died didn't make for a healthy way to handle the resulting dissonance, and instead got him pushed further off of the God Complex Cliff into a 'Yep, I hurt people and that's okay to do, because I'm god and everyone is below me' rather than the arguably healthier 'oh fuck I really fucked up I hurt so many people, shit'.

We see that he has stopped caring who is a "Loser" and who isn't. When Richie stands up to him with the iconic "I'm not a Loser" Max agrees. But it no longer matters. He knows he's going to kill Steph. She hurt him the most. But hurting someone he deemed "Cool" is still something he has trouble with. So Richie and Ruth are his warm up. He needs that time to adjust to hurting people, regardless of their rank. They aren't "Losers" anymore, but he's hurt them before, he can hurt them again with fewer issues. After Ruth, Max just goes wild. He kills Miss Tessburger, the mayor, tries to kill Shapiro, so on and so forth.

Max needs to abandon the dichotomy without going full homicidal maniac. Probably the expected when you don't die and gain supernatural powers that allow you to engage in the one remaining coping mechanism you can actually engage with in death (the coping mechanism is violence, if that wasn't clear).

Expectations in Redemption

Now, even if he does deconstruct the issues he has and how he's exerting control, he still needs to apologize, make efforts to rectify what he's done to those that even want him to continue affecting them, and accept that many will be unwilling to forgive him.

No one has any obligation to forgive him. That is the main thing. The specifics of what would even come close to what Max did being 'rectify' what he's done are beyond me, they'd likely vary character to character. But it is achievable.

Closing Statement

Also, Max is 18. While technically an adult, that brain is so undercooked, and this kid is young. I'm sure most people have done things they regret. Even things they doubled down on at the time. Things that only through hindsight do they realize how poorly they acted. I've acted in ways I don't like that at the time I thought were perfectly justified.

If Max makes efforts to be a better person, he deserves that chance.

Writer Bias and Background

Hi, said I'd do this. I am working with my experiences as my framework. As such, being clear about what those experiences are in a broad framework may help inform you of how much of my opinion you deem valuable.

I've never dealt with bulling to the extent Max inflicted on the students at Hatchetfield. In elementary school I was tripped with an amount of regularity, in middle school some kids poked and prodded me during classes to get a reaction, or to laugh at my lack of reaction despite their actions. In high school I was called a [f-slur] several times and threatened with violence once. My experiences are incredibly mild.

I am presently in college, working towards a psych degree. I have taken very few higher level psychology classes. I am not an expert, I just know some base level stuff about some of the vocab, which I have utilized here. My usage of these terms is based on my present understanding of them. I probably made mistakes.

There may be some confirmation bias occurring, be it from the pretty privilege that max has from being portrayed by an attractive performer, or just a deep seated self-loathing that manifests as a need for characters to have a path to redemption regardless of their failings.

Fuckin' ridiculous that I feel the need to include this but I am a part of the "Michie nation" as it were. It shouldn't really matter, but yeah, this is more about Max Jägerman's ability to become a better person given the opportunity than any romantic entanglements he might engage with.

[phoenixwrites]

I've seen a couple of complaints on how Chrissy is characterized in fanfic--which is a wee bit frustrating to me, because one of the fun parts about Chrissy is every fanfic writer gets to choose how to characterize her and it's all kinda valid. I love a Chrissy who discovers a love of metal as much as I love a Chrissy who never gets into it and sticks with Madonna--I love a sexually experienced Eddie Munson who gets into fights regularly and a virgin dork Eddie Munson--both are perfectly valid headcanons to have about them. We simply do not have enough canonical information to make firm judgments. Chrissy gets, like, fifteen minutes of screentime total, which gives us leave to make choices about her. Which again, is part of the fun.

So I want to impress a few thoughts on WHY Chrissy is characterized so often as unhappy in her life or her relationships.

A lot of us project our own unhappy adolescence onto Chrissy. Perfectly valid thing to do.

We know that Chrissy was emotionally and likely physically abused by her mother--Vecna's visions for both Fred and Max were based on actual memories, it's not a leap to assume the same for Chrissy.

We know jacksquat about Chrissy and Jason's relationship, except that Chrissy's smile is rather fixed when Jason calls out to her during the assembly (compare to the scene where Eddie makes her smile--it's just an obvious difference.) And we also know that Mason played up Jason's jealousy of Eddie--he's said so in interviews, which is why he was so angry when Lucas tried to tell him that Chrissy went to Eddie for help.

Chrissy did not go to her friends or her boyfriend for drugs. Popular 'queen of Hawkins High' probably had any number of friends who could've gotten her drugs--but Chrissy chose to go to Eddie and to keep it private. Why? There are a number of possible reasons, but Chrissy being unhappy and not feeling safe enough to go to her friends is a large reason as to why writers characterize her as so isolated. I was a good girl in high school too, but if I'd wanted drugs, there were a number of avenues I'd have pursued before tracking down the "school freak".

Was Jason abusive? We simply don't have enough information to say so definitively. I can see it going either way. He was perfectly fine with his friends physically assaulting an 11-year-old girl and nearly killing Lucas--even in the throes of grief, that makes me pretty suspect of him as a character. Some of us are projecting onto Jason and that's fine--but at the same time, I've seen plenty of writers redeem Jason and give him pathos--more pathos than the show ever did, frankly.

My point is, because Chrissy, Eddie, and Jason don't have enough canonical screentime to make definitive judgments about who they are as characters. Which is where fandom comes in and it's one of the most fun parts about it. So even if you're not a fan of a fandom drope, it doesn't mean there isn't REASON for it to be there.