#btw no hate to anyone in the thread linked i just think that approaching that element of jason's story from tim's pov is very limiting

[yvtro]

https://at.tumblr.com/scintillyyy/ah-thank-you-for-the-correction-you-are-correct/nwppbs9d8f1g

That whole thread really highlight how lonely Jason's Robin run was. Honestly it makes me sad how he didn't have many friends back then compare to others. He had Eddie but even then dc forget about them.

i don't really agree with lots of points in this thread, mainly because of tim exceptionalism (or the main character complex, whatever you want to call it) + it assumes that things that happened pretty much only because of jason's death would still occur.

having said so, i do agree that jason's robin run was (in a way) incredibly lonely!

now, personally i don't think that jason noticed it much, but that's part of the problem. i have touched upon it briefly in my other posts about vigilante/civilian identity (look: here, for example), and i think it's worth to make a quick comparison of pre-crisis vs post-crisis jay.

so, tldr, pre-crisis jason is shown to have a whole life at school, he has friends and even a romantic interest. post-crisis jason has none of that. we see him working for an extra credit at school, but if i recall it right (might have been a pre-crisis story retroactively included in canon though) the only time we actually see him *in* school is when he thinks about how he would like to join the theatre but doesn’t have time for that because of robin responsibilities. we don’t see him having any social life outside of robin, but also as a member of the community he doesn’t have anyone close his age. his cameo in titans is very dear to me, and you know, as a person with siblings i will tell you, you can absolutely be friends with your older brother’s friends, but we don’t ever see him developing a lasting bond with any of them (which is also because he died quite soon after that. i’m not saying that donna, for example, didn’t care about him, but i don’t think they had a chance to grow very close).

there's eddie, sure, but even that relationship is that of penpals, and by the time jason comes back from the dead, eddie is completely retconned, so it's safe to assume that in the current continuity they have never known each other at all.

i'm not going to comment on dc trying to sell the concept of roy and jay being childhood friends in n52.

so i’m thinking, you can make an argument about how jason knows little besides vigilantism, but i believe there’s an additional layer to how even his “nightlife” (debatable term btw, we see robin jay operating in daylight along with batman all the time but i guess that was a whole another era) focuses pretty much on bruce and no one else. he really doesn’t know much beyond batman and robin.

and it obviously wasn't really the writers' intention, i bet it's mostly the result of the fact that they weren't really interested in exploring his character much, but jay's world is so very narrow and centres around bruce. and i can see how bruce wouldn't really see any problem in it at first, because (while it's not really canon, as there's a time skip and we don't even get to see how he settles into the manor, nor much of his training period) it is safe to assume that it took some time for jay to gain bruce's trust and to get used to a role of a child (since he was used to fending for himself/presumably being briefly a caretaker for his mother before). so when the kid finally learns that he can depend on bruce and actively seeks him out, that's great. it took so much to coax him into allowing to be cared for, now the issue is solved. (wrong.)

i think it really puts post-resurrection jay's mentality in perspective (even if winick did not intend it this way; he clearly had no interest in jay's 80s characterisation). of course jason's anger, disappointment, and feelings of betrayal focus on bruce; bruce was everything he had. at this stage, he doesn't know much beside him, and being robin.

and i don't think that jason then was quite aware that he was lonely. he had his dad, which was the most important thing for him for a while, he had alfred. dick might not have been home much, but their interactions we got to see were meaningful, and flashbacks (such as the famous ski trip) suggest that they did spend more time together. babs was around. he probably made so many brief connections with gothamites in his time as robin too.

it all becomes a problem when jason grows. when he can't see a line between being a robin and a son, and looks for another parental figure, and he doesn't have anyone to talk to about it. everyone he has a lasting relationship with is part of the family that he worries he doesn't belong to, so he just resolves to find someone new to depend on.

it becomes a problem when he digs himself out of grave, and later comes back to gotham, and there's such a limited number of people he can (or could, if he wanted) turn to.

i also believe that even if the plot of 'a death in the family' never occured, the fact that he went from a hyper-independent parentified child to someone who spends most of his time with his dad or alone (and i don't think he minded alone time all that much at first) would backfire otherwise. i'm joking, but at this point there probably would be some separation anxiety, on both sides.

i just wish i could grip jay with bbq tongs and put him in east gotham to allow him to stay in touch with his community. of course he probably was around there as robin a lot, but as a civilian? i doubt it.