#shan's j&j yap

[shanblackrx]

OKAY I MAY BE STUPID BUT

One thing I JUST realized about J&J NC scene is that... only Jack ever talks.

(says the guy who just shoved Joke against the wall twice)

(you could, Jack. You should, actually)

(also, gods, the way Jack massages Joke's throat,,)

Do you think they sent grandma out somewhere one day just so they could scream

Honestly this bit and angle is so incredibly sexy I'm just dying all over again

(let Joke do it next time, Jack.)

Whereas Joke ever just responds in kind silently.

By either grinning and grabbing his tit

Devouring Jack with his eyes expectantly

Quickly nodding and pulling Jack down for a kiss, licking his lips like a thirsty man in the desert about to get a drop of water

Looking this criminally fucked out. It should be illegal for someone to look like this

Biting his lips and just nodding again.

This can be for various reasons, but I'm going to try coming up with explanations for it just for fun. Because I need a positive J&J yapping lol.

I think that before anything else, they're still young men, finally getting their (probably not very experienced) hands on each other after such a long time yearning and desiring, and getting nervous about it is natural. So talking to take off the edge a bit, or not talking to not ruin the moment, would be simple but valid reasons.

But I'd like to dig deeper into their brains and give it a bit of a character analysis.

First and foremost, I'd like to say that I find sex scenes a really good moment to explore the characters' more raw personalities, regardless of the media. Sex is, after all, an act of intimacy, and a lot of what happens and how people treat their partners during it reflects what they are outside the bedroom as well as how they are internally. Lots of feelings and insecurities are laid bare when you're going to sleep with someone, especially with who you're in love with, and even more especially if it's for the first time.

That said, two things are clear throughout the series: Jack has a very hard time letting go of control, and Joke is irredeemably devoid of self-preservation when it comes to Jack.

If you observe more closely, only Jack ever consciously stops Joke's advances to what looked like he'd 'lead' (maybe top), but Joke doesn't really do the same to him. Even when he flipped them both with those strong, juicy thighs, I can't read it as necessarily purposefully stopping Jack's advances but more like just to playfully fight for the lead like they were doing since the start.

Jack, however, STOPS Joke. He says "You think I'm gonna let you lead?" = I'm not giving up my control here. He straight up says 'stop' and pushes Joke away from him when he was straddling Jack's thighs and once again taking the lead, then forcefully flipped them back over and said he's gonna do it this time.

Whilst Joke just goes with the flow, obviously still being the brat he is, but never denying Jack of anything; every time Jack took the lead, Joke's let him do anything he wanted, be it pushing him against a wall, pushing him on the couch, grabbing his chin to not so gently pull him back to a kiss, let his hands get immobilized over his head, and agreeing to take the bottom position. He just let Jack take, and take, and take, and he was happy (and horny) with it.

So I think that for their first time, their personalities and even negative traits bloomed in their sexual little games. Jack still struggling to let go even though he trusts Joke, and Joke still letting himself aside for Jack's comfort. This exact dynamic encapsulates their essence perfectly, and it's actually very interesting to see it so clearly in this scene.

And now from another angle, which instead of negating the previous point actually enriches it, especially because there's a lot of factors involved and they're very complex characters.

We all saw with the kiss how starved Joke was, to the point Jack had to reel them back. I think at that exact point, Jack has had come to terms with his feelings in a way that made him go past all the anxiety. I've talked about it a bit here, and also here (the third confession, more specifically). So when he confessed to Joke and asked him to be his boyfriend, it was all a calculated move of someone who went through a whole, rather slow process and knew what he wanted.

Joke, on the other hand, beside the fact he's been pining the fuck out since 5 years ago, was not actually expecting for that to happen (I mean, he might've known it probably wasn't unrequited, but there's a long way from knowing that to a proper relationship). He got a confirmation that their feelings were mutual and asked to be in a relationship with the love of his life, without any actual prior warning or signals. So it came as a surprise. Even though he heard Jack saying he liked someone else while turning down Rosé, and probably wondering if it really was him, he only asked about the person Jack liked because Jack willingly opened that door for him.

So taking this as their initial inner moments diving into the horny, it might be that Jack was simply more clear-headed than Joke; regardless of the surprise or euphoria he might've felt when Joke said yes, he had gone through a whole internal process that Joke had not, at that point, and gave him a little bit more of a clear mind, allowing him to consciously flirt and banter with Joke in bed, and taking more straightforward decisions.

Whilst Joke was in a trance, acting and reacting on sensations alone, high on the fact he's being allowed to touch Jack like that, going just with his instincts. Absolutely gone. I doubt his brain was working at a capacity of forming actual words, and we know how much he loves to run his mouth. his brain was probably rotating dick dick hole jack hole dick jack

So this scene tells us a whole lot about them, exactly how I like my NC scenes. If it was a conscious decision or not I don't really care; I just know they've delivered one of the best NC scenes in Thai BL not just because of the level of spicy, but also because of how consistent the portrayal of their characters was, showing much more than just a hot scene.

[loulooser]

Here’s some things about me!

My name is Lou online

I’m a MINOR. A MINOR. STOP BEING WEIRD TO ME.

I’m agender probably

My favourite colour is green

I really like music, drawing little guys, cooking, talking, trans people, watching movies, making friends, wearing clothes, playing games, Spider-Man, being gay etc

I really DISLIKE disruption to routine, super loud people, drum and bass, hypocrites, knowing I’ll die some day, being lonely, socks (no fr I hate hate HATE socks so much), doomed siblings trope (for fucks sake give me a break), John Walker, etc etc

My favourite band is twenty one pilots I am normal about them I SWEAR anyways going on six/seven years of fanhood (since 2018)

I’m a huge Marvel nerd

My top five marvel characters in no particular order:

Phillip J. Coulson (actually my all time fav), Wanda Maximoff, Natasha Romanoff, Loki Laufeyson, Spider-Man (not including spider verse people, that’s a different tier list, but Andrew is the best of the three spider men and Yuri Lowenthal is my fav spidey ever anyway.)

Some of my fav books/series: Gone (Micheal Grant), Itch (Simon Mayo), all of Alice Oseman’s stuff, AGGGTM (Holly Jackson), The Angel Of The Crows (Katherine Addison), all of Darren Shan’s stuff, Skullduggery Pleasant, Ketchup Clouds (Annabelle Pitcher) etc etc also I really like comics (spidey and also Kate bishop’s specifically) (I’m not rich enough to read loads)

My favourite movie is fantastic mr fox

I really like Diggers (the machines)

Favourite animal is rabbits I want one so bad I will name him Peter

My favourite show is Agents Of Shield

I cry a lot (at everything, it sucks and I hate it)

I love love love Les Mis. Watched it in London in October 2024 and I will never recover. Stewart Clarke the Javert that you are <3 (also I watched a bootleg of be more chill in July 2025 and omg his squip is everything wtf)

I LIKE SONIC!!! I REALLY LIKE SONIC. SHADOW AND SILVER ARE MY TOP TWO.

I’m blessed to be one eighth of the coconut shark gang :0

I would like to own two cats and my own small apartment one day, a cheetah esc print kitty called Jason (Statham) and a black cat called Liho. Both are references and if you get either PLEASE send me an ask saying so ily

I have what can be described as misophonia, but even if I’m not diagnosed please for the love of god don’t make any noises around me I DO bite.

Big fan of fictional old men from the 1800s. Shoutout to them.

I like Nintendo a lot!! Zelda and Animal Crossing my beloved. The 2DS is my favourite console ever (not the stupid 2DSXL)

I really like musicals!! Some honourable mentions: Les Mis, Hamilton, EPIC, Wicked, Six, Heathers (some of it, haven’t seen the whole thing yet), In The Heights, Rogers the musical (SHHH SHH ITS FUNNY), School Of Rock, Hadestown, be more chill.

I’m a nerd about many things

Im gonna be a software engineer one day

Please send me asks!! My dms are always open for rants or a chat

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[shanblackrx]

Ok, first of all, I have just rewatched the special episode and although I already knew how it'd end, the moment the credits went up I literally buried my face in my hands and SOBBED. It's not that hard to make me cry with media, but I usually just tear up and nothing more. The last time I remember sobbing like this was with the end of Chimera Ants arc of Hunter x Hunter manga, which is a completely different type of story and media whatsoever, back in 2012. And I didn't know the end. Spectacular manga btw go read it

That said, I'm freshly out of it so here's a few of my considerations, personal opinions and also my theory. I'm not diving into the analysis of the episode itself for now, as I like to make these for more specific things I find in the work so they deserve a separate post for each, though I will be analyzing the post-credits scene because we don't have answers so we need to speculate.

Looooong text with almost no pictures ahead, just my yapping:

I expected the special episode to be really just Jack and Joke's cute little established relationship, which we did get to see (they're so disgustingly sappy, oh my god. I love them) for a good chunk of the episode. But we all also expected the wedding which, technically, did happen, just not how we wanted.

I think a lot of us just wanted only the happy part of it, maybe just a small conflict that would resolve within the story, which is what special episodes usually offer, especially because the original series wraps up perfectly and doesn't really give that much room for a continuation. And I think that because a lot of people expected this, they were utterly disappointed with it, even mad (that and also killing off one of the leads, like. Yeah I get it lol).

And I understand. Jack & Joker is perfectly balanced, with a nice and perfect ending. If I could choose, I wouldn't want a continuation either - you know, the chances of ruining a perfectly good show increases if you extend it for more than it should, and J&J is already perfect the way it is.

But I was offered the special episode, and now I have to work with it.

The first time I watched it I thought it was a bit rushed and confusing, albeit very intense (in a positive way). In my much calmer (as one can be), much less stressed out and anxious mood of my rewatch, I could feel it better. And I think it's way more seamless than I thought at first. Curiously, I also had the same feeling with the og series; it got so, so much better once I've rewatched it, and it kept getting better with all the small details I caught in every new watch.

It still has all the essence of J&J. The absurd comedy, the action, the romance, the heavy angst, the visuals, the lack of canon tattooaran even if it's heavily hinted. So all in all it was still a complete J&J experience.

I really do like the fact Save is not a perfect boss - he's basically just a math kid. He's not prepared to take care of a whole neighborhood like he did with bank accounts. Variables - people - were not in the system of his little bank computer. Taking care of a whole community is no easy task, especially since he is no mafia, he doesn't have the kind of experience and intimidation to keep bad apples in check. And even so, he still worked his hardest; and even so, it's still not enough.

So having criminals that were under Alice's thumb but now scattered like cockroaches searching for another ditch make having control over these fires they set even harder. I think it's a nice and coherent touch, and stuff happening because of it makes sense.

Also, although the uwu language JackJoke used throughout the moments they were out and about making everyone unwilling witnesses of their disgusting love was extremely funny and cute, it was really nice to see their heartfelt conversation when they were alone in Jack's room. It felt much more like they were baring their hearts for the other to hold, a genuine moment of intimacy, especially since they were making their wedding invites individually and by hand. It bore such a huge significance to their relationship I really can't begin to tell you how much I loved this scene. (they're also wearing shirts of complementary colors 😭💚)

I wasn't really expecting Carbon to make a comeback. But his explanation on why makes sense, and once again it hints that money and power walk together. It also gives him a more definite end (dying, finally. bitch) to take him out the picture for good since he could just eventually walk out the prison and go after them once again.

The casino mission was SUCH a delightful surprise to me! It's such a heavy wave to the pilot episode and it was really thrilling. Joke playing and cheating on poker was one of the sexiest things he could've ever done in his life lmao also even when he's cheating he manages to be gay af with his little ace and jack cards.

Admittedly, I was a bit underwhelmed with the fighting scenes. A lot of them were subpar compared to the ones in the og show, it not only lacked intensity but it was also awkward to see people in the background waiting to join the fight instead of throwing themselves into it, much like Jack's rampaging into Boss' office, which is one of my absolute favorite scenes in the og show, that's what I was expecting of them. However it was super nice to see the other piggies fighting with what they had, showing they were better prepared. Aran here takes the cake for me.

After that it was downhill. Joke not letting other people decide his destiny is one of the most Joke things in the entire show. With all that was happening it was rather predictable, but then again J&J does its thing and takes the predictability for a twist. "กูรักมึงที่รัก" ???? Using tirak in this situation when every other situation it was used was extremely, sickeningly sweet? Devastating. These words in that tone will be branded on my brain forever.

The whole thing with Jack going through the stages of grief and the ghost wedding destroyed me, even more so in my rewatch. Once again I'm here EATING UP Yin's crying scenes (one of my most favorite scenes in any BL ever is Vee crying under the rain at the bridge). I know everyone talks about War's acting when it comes to crying and obviously he always nails it, but I still think Yin should have more recognition in these kind of scenes too, because he always manage to make it so heartbreaking, and it wasn't different here.

The swings scene with him hallucinating Joke to be able to accept his presumed death was one of the most beautiful, most heartbreaking 'endings' I've seen in a Thai BL.

HOWEVER. I absolutely refused to believe they'd actually end in that note. It could be as devastatingly beautiful as it gets but I genuinely thought if they ended it like that it'd be SUCH a huge stab in the back of fans. Jack and Joke barely managed to live a happy life to then be yanked from it. It really didn't feel fair, that they gave us such a perfect little ending in the og show to then just say 'how about no?'. I was honestly in shock and denial. I was really thinking like 'I really, genuinely don't think they'd do this. I will only believe it ends like this when the episode reaches the end and stops playing by itself.'

And I'm glad I thought like that because they really didn't let me down. Some Marvel level of post-credits scene this is. The relief to see Joke isn't actually dead. The enormous cliffhanger.

I still am of the opinion that J&J didn't need a continuation, but now that it's out there, I just hope it's as good as the og show. And that maybe we don't have to wait for another 2 years, although I will gladly do so if that means they will deliver another sublime experience.

But I also hope it ends with that and they manage to move on to other, new things, because they've already proven they can do anything they want and it will be good. I really, really want them to take over the Thai BL world as a power couple with their independent productions, because they showed everyone they can.

Now, to the post-credits scene. Here goes my theory:

Reading all theories and also frying my brain to come up with what will they do with that cliffhanger, I thought of something that might make sense. This, however, would only work (well) in a full 10-12 eps season rather than another special episode or movie.

First of all, I think it's a new character (and that's why I think this will only work with a full season, because introducing a new character just for a short episode will give no substance to it). It's no one we know and I tell you why I think that: Joke had someone specific in mind. I don't think he's talking about Carbon here. Especially because everyone in the conversation knows Carbon very personally, he could just say his name.

So having this in mind, he might've been referring to this new character. So the fact this person is the one... 'housing' Joke, and who tended to his wounds, and also for his shock, this person might be either an old cellmate or someone else that's been incarcerated and Joke knows about or personally. Maybe a rival thief. So he's talking about this person here.

Also, VERY important missing information in the subs: Joke says "someone like me" in the sense of 'has the same abilities/did/does the same things'. This is crucial information that is in several other subs but not in the English one. Because the English subs on this ep are dogshit, lbr.

So I think one option that could happen:

This person wants Joke to either work for or with them. After all, you can't just wipe an alias like "legendary thief" in a year. Whatever it is that they want him for, it might be convenient for them that Joke's deemed dead, or they actually needed Joke to "die" for it to work. They might be in cahoots with someone we already know, or they might be acting alone.

This can be a double-edged sword because the person can be good, neutral or evil and we might not know until the very last minute.

Now one thing that caught my attention: The black shirt in the background.

Absolutely nothing when it's about clothes is Just There in J&J. There's always a lot of subtle storytelling in their clothes, especially when it comes to black and white. And specifically a black shirt hanging in so openly there and no other piece of clothing while Joke is wearing white? This is deliberate.

Do you remember Jack's red ticket? When the joker turns black to white, etc? This might be the opposite of that. This might mean starting from square one, undoing everything up to that point, or it might also mean Joke's darkening arc. Joke's wearing white, so washing this away to taint it black. It might also mean someone who's opposite of him if the shirt is referring to this new character, but I'm not too sold on this idea since black is mainly Jack's motif, especially in relation to Joke. Also, maybe this is the 'enemies' Nang was talking about.

And maybe because Joke has no choice but to do what he's told, whether if it's under threat or because maybe Jack would be in danger if he doesn't because that's their thing, or both, probably both, he can't show up to Jack or any of the piggies, and that is the main conflict of the season.

This can tie with the whole 'moving on' thing about Jack that everyone is terrified of. I don't think that even if it might seem so to add to the tension, Jack will ever actually move on; not FROM Joke at least. He can move on from the pain, make peace with the idea he's not coming back, but not from what he feels for Joke. If Joke appeared in front of him be it tomorrow or in 10 years, he'd probably just resume their lives together (after coming back from the shock of seeing him alive which can take some time). He himself said Joke is the one he loves the most. And some people change you so viscerally and completely that they'll always mean the same to you, forever, which is definitely the case for both.

Maybe if we're going through this route because J&J's classic angst and pain, Joke's gonna watch him from afar going on with his life, then that lack of self-worth he has that I'm pretty sure doesn't just vanish in such a short time even if he's found love and some healing, might keep him from approaching Jack even if he wants to and can do so; he wouldn't want to ruin whatever Jack has built without him so far.

If that's the case, if this really happened, I'd want Jack to find out and tackle Joke on the ground when he's being watched just like their first encounter after the 5 years. It'd be one of the most poetic cinema cycle closing one could pull off with this possible new season. But that's just my wishful thinking.

It can also be something completely different and I'm all for it as long as it retains J&J vibe, quality and unpredictable turns.

And also many more YinWar kissies, there's never enough of those.

[shanblackrx]

OK so I've been trying my hardest see what Joke's red tattoo on the inside of his forearm near the elbow was about, but never managed since in the og series we only ever get really fleet and quick/blurry moments it appears. (the first time I realized it was a tattoo was on this scene)

Then @days-of-storm found a post by War from July 2024 where he shows it and it appears clear as day, finally letting me see what it is.

I knew it was ideograms so probably a saying, but nothing would prepare for what it actually means.

It says 一期一会 ["itchi-go itchi-e"], a Japanese saying that can be roughly translated as "one time, one encounter", meaning something like "once in a lifetime" or "for this time only".

The term reminds people to cherish any gathering that they may take part in, citing the fact that any moment in life cannot be repeated; even when the same group of people get together in the same place again, a particular gathering will never be replicated, and thus each moment is always a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

It basically means to enjoy the moment, because you'll never get to experience it twice...

Thank you, Joke, for being this incredibly tragic character.

[shanblackrx]

OK I HAVE A THOT ABOUT IT (might be considered just a headcanon and it's ok but STAY WITH ME HERE):

Yes yes, jokussy so good it made my man want to go from the bed straight to the altar, bet, but let's remember Jack just got out (theoretically) of all that entanglement with that bullshit of marrying Rosé. And we all know that since the start he never actually wanted to marry her.

And not only because he didn't love her - I'm pretty sure he went in already knowing full well what he feels about Joke (I mean, the forehead to forehead scenes made it pretty clear imo... "promise you won't disappear until I reach my dream", "would you still have/accept me if I was a criminal bigwig" like. Those were not that lowkey confessions in my book), but he couldn't be like that with Joke because of Boss, it'd put his, Joke's, and grandma's life on the line. And as the self-sacrificing idiot he is, ofc he wouldn't let that happen.

But it's pretty clear that all the lie towards Rosé and the kind of lifetime commitment he'd have to make with someone he doesn't love stirred his brain cells, and his heart. To the point of categorically dipping out, turning Rosé and Boss down once and for all, because he just couldn't lie to anyone else anymore, not to himself, not to Rosé, and not to Joke either.

We don't often get Jack's POV, and he's good at hiding his feelings out of survival instincts, but don't you think it's all too much of a 'coincidence' that he shut down the idea of marrying someone he doesn't love, to then ask someone he DOES love if they ever thought about marriage the same night?

To me, this pillow talk is but a consequence of the clarity he has about his own feelings towards Joke, now. Because, after all, this feeling was there since the very beginning; it just broke free of its cage, finally.

imagine being so good at sex that the guy proposes to you the second both of you finish. i mean, how good was it that it got my guy thinking about marriage?

[shanblackrx]

Ok so I'm feeling very alone on bluesky screaming about this show for a week straight with almost no one listening and since I refuse to go back to Xitter I had to bring it over since I know thai BL fandom here is fortunately still going strong.

But anyway. After watching Jack & Joker twice in a row, I've been accidentally finding out more things to lose my mind about it bc I'm absolutely normal about this fucking drama and repeatedly replay my favorite scenes.

Like, I was rewatching the kiss scene (ep 9) for god knows which time, and having chosen the hospital scene (ep 7) as my second favorite after it, I realized this parallel so suddenly it punched me in the gut hard enough to go through my torso.

(spoilers for both episodes ahead)

So here's the thing:

First one is when Jack just accepted the demand about Rosé from Boss, and Joke is coming back from the absolute failure of a request for his father to help grandma. The scene is kinda monochromatic, skewed, and with angles from both slightly below and not centered, depicting instability, pressure, like they're cornered. We have the classic color combo of blue and orange, but here, the cold color (blue) is the prominent one. It's also poorly lit, shading their faces for the most part. Jack's hair covers part of his face, making it hard to see it clearly, especially his eyes. He's holding Joke by the neck for dear life. Joke is looking down instead of at him, sad and worried because he knows Jack is putting himself in danger again, but will still follow him to hell and back.

The second one is the first kiss scene. This is after they almost gobbled each other up and are now slowing down to actually savor the kiss. Again we have the classic color combo, but this time the warm color (orange) is the prominent one. The angle is basically eye-level with them, in a straight line, with them centered, depicting the opposite of the previous one - stability, proximity, and balance. The scene is very clear even though it's night time, and it's actually very colorful. The light is coming from the front instead of behind, making their faces visible, the only shade on them coming from each other for how close they are. Jack's touch is light, intimate. We can see his eyes and he's looking at Joke, just as Joke is looking back at him, both with something almost like relief (and horny ik), even though we know Joke was the one who put himself in danger for Jack now. But for them, it feels that it's over, and that they can fucking finally be together without restrictions.

One scene is right before these decisions make them drift apart, despite their feelings. The other is right after they're able to let go of everything holding them back, and give in to their feelings.

Like damn, this is literally the same kind of shot and pose and all and yet they tell such widely different things. Sighs.

I can't applaud all the visual choices for this show enough. Everything is perfect.

Watch Jack & Joker.

[shanblackrx]

I have just witnessed firsthand someone saying that Jack & Joker is bad, complaining there weren't any kisses up until episode 6 that is when they dropped it.

I know I'm a J&J yapper first and foremost, but this kind of complaint involves way more than just the series. So I'm going to talk about these issues, using J&J as an example.

"There weren't any kisses up until episode 6"

Jack & Joker laid out what it came for within the first seconds of the first episode. It's a heist/action romance drama. You don't start a series that is supposed to focus only on the romance with someone running away from security. This is a classic kind of opening scene for action genre.

Once you understand that, you also understand, or at least should understand, that the romance might not be the only focus, or even the priority in the storytelling.

But Jack & Joker does also focus on romance - at the end of the opening scene, you see the two protagonists clashing. It shows the main conflict is between them, and that they have a past that apparently is not that good. It instigates you to want to know what the hell is that all about.

Another thing that the first 6 episodes absolutely make it very clear: it's a slow burn (or as we like to say, in their case, a very long dynamite fuse). As much as Joke wants to make up for all the shit he did, to help Jack and all, they are still consistently at odds with each other, there's a lot of misunderstandings and skeletons in the closet for them that they've yet to address.

Making the romance happen before all that is settled would be bad and forced. Speeding up the process to reach the romance quicker would be bad and forced. They had to gradually get closer, naturally opening up to each other before anything happening between them.

The end of episode 5 is when all that happens, and it's when they're finally on good terms. It's the final, biggest switch that needed to be flipped so they could move on to deepen their relationship.

So ep 6 specifically is literally the first episode after that. They didn't have time to actually be close, to feel at ease with one another, to let the good feeling finally surpass and suppress the bad ones. Episode 6 is all about that. It has a major homely vibe, intimate, close. Almost all scenes are inside the house, or with a friend group. The two of them are always together in this episode. It's definitely deliberate; it's to show their relationship changed.

And the flipped switch was so needed we have this in the very same episode. Just one episode after they make up for good. They've already made each other irreplaceable in their lives.

If we kept jumping through hoops to reach this point faster than ep 6, this kind of interaction wouldn't feel the same. This charged proximity, this romantic tension, wouldn't have the same impact if it had happened in, say, ep 3.

"But there still aren't any kiss scenes until episode 9"

Once again, it is a slow burn. Also, external problems start to happen to get in their way (after all, there's 12 episodes and conflicts need to happen lol). Like I said in this post, the feelings were already there, already known, but it still needed some time to solidify, and this process was abruptly interrupted; yet, it still inadvertently and inevitably grew and grew and grew until it just broke out of its cage for being too big and too wild to contain anymore.

So the process of the romance was:

end of ep 5: the forgiveness

episode 6: getting comfortable around each other, and probably coming to terms with their own feelings

episode 7: external factors and start of divorce mini arc

episode 8: end of divorce mini arc and making up

episode 9: the concretization of the feelings

In my honest opinion, the combo of eps 6 to 9 is by far the best arc of J&J, with the best scenes, but then I'd be going on a tangent here if I start talking about it, maybe in another yapping post.

Why did it have to be the span of 4 episodes? Because it is a slow burn. But it doesn't mean that they haven't shown any sort of intimacy or feelings towards one another throughout these 4 episodes - on the very contrary. These eps are literally focused on them and how their relationship is quickly shifting while they still need to deal with external factors.

Now, if you think only a kiss is the 'real' way to show what they feel for each other... well, then you're not interested in the story of the couple itself, you just want to watch the physical act. And it's totally fine! Honest! I do watch some things just for the visuals and hot-boys-kissing-makes-brain-go-brrrr.

But then we enter the other problem: saying it's bad because of it.

Listen, the slow burn in Jack & Joker might absolutely not be your cup of tea and that's fine. But just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad (and this is for literally anything).

I'm in the BL world for 25 years now. I can safely say I have seen a shitton of different slow burn stories. And in my 25 years of consistently reading and watching all sorts of BL, it's easy for me to say Jack & Joker has one of the most natural, most delicious and most rewarding slow burns I've ever seen, especially in thai BL.

It is excruciatingly slow. And that's precisely why when it breaks like that, so explosive, so intense, is why it's so rewarding. Making us wait is part of the thrill of the romance.

I have watched the We Still React videos and while discussing one of the episodes of J&J, Pharaoh says something that I agree wholeheartedly:

Of course there's nothing wrong with overtly romantic dramas that is romance for the sake of the romance, if that's what you like, it's fine. But diversity within the genre is important, just like in any other genre.

One very important thing to point here: despite saying at the beginning that establishing early on that the romance might not be priority, it doesn't make it irrelevant to the plot.

The pining and yearning is *literally* what moves the whole plot of J&J. If not for Jack and Joke meeting and being drawn and driven by each other, and after the time skip, if not for Joke basically pursuing Jack the whole first part, and then Jack eventually giving in to a feeling he had long buried within himself and letting him, literally nothing in the plot would happen.

The wedding ring, the necklace, Jack's freedom, the hangman game, everything happens because they're in love with each other.

Being able to see nuance is a key aspect of consuming any form of media. And the build up of the romance in J&J is precisely the small, subtle things that aren't black and white or expositive. And it's not that people are seeing things that aren't there; it's just that nuance blindness makes people skip them completely.

I think the biggest problem of people that say this kind of thing about J&J is that the good ole putting a certain expectation in the work, and when the work doesn't deliver exactly what you expect, it's suddenly bad.

Oh it didn't deliver a kiss within the first 3 episodes? Bad.

It doesn't work that way. You can absolutely hate the work, say it's the worst thing you've ever seen, but make it clear that it's your opinion. You're entitled to it. But your opinion is irrelevant to the quality of the work. Objectively speaking, a BL drama that doesn't deliver kisses within the first episodes isn't automatically bad. What might make it bad is precisely how everything before the kiss is done, and that is something that J&J does perfectly.

Does J&J have flaws? Absolutely. Some even I cannot pretend don't exist (and in actuality I am usually harsher on my criticism when it's about media I like). But it's not half the things people who don't like it make it seem to be, because most of it are personal opinions that don't actually reflect the work.

If you want works that have kisses within the first episodes, there is a ton of it waiting for you to appreciate them. Go on and look up for what you want instead of putting expectations in a work that never promised what you wanted from it.

[shanblackrx]

This. This is the first time Jack touches Joke gently since the shoulder pat at the bar and hug at the bank 5 years prior. After punching, kicking, choking, grabbing and shoving, the first gentle touch is wound tending.

Since this is when they start actually cooperating with each other, and it's the middle of the forgiveness "arc", I can't help but feel this is where Jack symbolically tends to the wounds he inflicted on Joke himself... like the first steps of healing. Especially knowing that by the end of this episode, Jack tells Joke he's forgiven him.

[shanblackrx]

J&J yapping compilation

Ok, so I just realized I have a fuckton of texts about Jack & Joker here lol so I decided making this post compiling all of them (so far). I'll eventually add more and reblog with updated links, but if anything, you can check the tag I made specifically for these kind of texts and see if there's anything new. I'd advise to keep track of this post though because apparently Tumblr eats some posts that are flagged from the tag so there's a few missing from it :v

So here are all of the texts as of now (april 20th 2025)

- Visual analysis of parallel scenes in eps 7 and 9 - Pillow talk scene brief analysis - Forehead touch scenes from Jack's POV analysis - What Do You Mean Their Romance Feels Forced Are You Fucking Blind analysis (two parts) - Main characters' songs analysis - Joke's life was miserable before meeting Jack - You younglings can't fucking sit back and enjoy a good slow burn anymore apparently - General thoughts, very very brief analysis, and theory/speculation for the special episode - Why is the NC scene so goddamn good

I'm cooking another one right now and it's probably going to be my lengthiest text about J&J, but I think it'll take a little longer until I post it because there's just so much to say lol

Anyways, enjoy :) I sure did while writing them!

[shanblackrx]

ADDING TO THIS:

I've talked briefly about this when analyzing the marriage pillow talk scene, but quote on quote, "those (forehead to forehead scenes) were not that lowkey confessions in my book" is right. And I think these forehead touch scenes basically show the development of Jack's feelings. So to expand the logic about these scenes a bit:

this one - Jack has just realized and accepted his own feelings, and gave hints. Even if he was uncertain about Joke's (or if Joke realized his own feelings, bc by now it'd kind of be pretty clear lol but he still didn't want to pressure him), and didn't outwardly say he's in love, he still made Joke promise to be by his side in the most important moment of his life - when he achieves his dream. It's the easiest way to be by someone's side, when they're at their best, but he did want to share that moment with Joke. Confession 1.

the one at the hospital - it was when everything went to shit, he didn't have a choice but to pause any further development of their potential romantic relationship, or it'd put everyone's life on the line, especially grandma's. He asked, almost pleading, if Joke would still be by his side if the worst would happen, because he wanted him to. He wanted Joke to be by his side even when he'd be at his worst. It's not easy at all to be by someone's side when they hit the bottom of the barrel, and especially Jack who never wants to bring people down with him, he still wanted Joke there with, FOR him. Confession 2.

the kiss - Kind of self-explanatory since he literally confessed, but something important to note: not only did he get free of what was holding him back, I think the whole deal with Rosé made him reach his limit. After staying so long with someone he didn't love and having a bad falling out with Joke because of it, he could no longer starve off his feelings and that's why he told Boss he couldn't do it anymore. He left Rosé and her house with the goal of coming clean. And even then he didn't do anything on impulse - he still 'baited' Joke into asking who he liked. There was literally no other reason for the truth or dare game after saying he turned Rosé down because he liked someone else. He pulled more or less the same move of the first scene, creating a chance for himself to confess, but this time he wasn't just testing the waters. I'm pretty sure he'd confess either way. He did it because he wanted to be with Joke that very moment and no later than that. So, Confession 3.

We don't see Jack's POV too often, and even when we do, the feelings are so subtle, so under so many layers of self-protection, self-sacrifice and self-control it's hard to see them clearly. So that's why I think these scenes say a whole lot about Jack and how his mind works, even if it's hard to see.

Most of you probably already know this but I guess it doesn’t hurt to say it.

We all know how Jack is.

He is methodical. He thinks things through. He doesn’t do things by impulse.

So this? Why would he pick those words, particularly? Love, Confess, Promise??

WELL

I think Jack was already thinking of confessing, cause he already knew his feelings here

and this

was a test run.

So, when all Joke gave him was that cute little “huh?”

it became too much, too real, suddenly

so he of course chickened out, which is understandable.

and backs away from it

I think about this all the time and I haven’t seen anyone mention it so I thought I should, cause like I mentioned, Jack isn’t one to act on impulse.

No, he gave himself a chance to confess his feelings by creating the perfect setting for him to throw a smoke bomb if it didn’t go well so he wouldn’t have to do any damage control.

Jack you’re very smart, but I see right through your thirsty ass, my babes.

[shanblackrx]

YUP.

Also if you think about it, most likely Joke was observing Jack for some time before they interacted. He looked at Jack like this, then asked if he was 'getting bullied by his friends'.

How did he know what was happening if he wasn't looking for long enough to realize it? Even when Jack goes around him to get behind the counter, he's clearly looking the way Jack came from.

He asked Jack to fill his glass with a smile, because he's seen Jack got upset and wanted to distract him, even if it wasn't with the intention of flirting at first (which honestly, doubt it wasn't, not with the way he was looking at him, but I also think it wasn't only that). You can see how intentional he was with his request when he looked at Jack who just got back from Carbon's table, paused, then asked him.

After that, it came naturally; Jack immediately engaged in conversation, smiled and opened up to him, unfurling like a flower.

Jack's first actual interaction with Joke might have been just small talk on his end at first, but when it turned into actual conversation, Jack already gave Joke some positive reinforcement ("Phi acting like a dumbass? I don't think that's possible").

Jack then gave Joke his undivided attention, more positive reinforcement like I said in the original post... and Jack literally inserted himself into Joke's life. And Joke let him.

Maybe Joke started being just interested in this bullied puppy, but the puppy turned out to be not only too charming and surprisingly smooth with his flirting, but also feeling like a missing piece in his life for him to not actually fall for him right there and then.

So I've been seeing (and saw in real time) comments of people saying

--Either that it doesn't make sense that Joke feels so strongly about Jack when they had only briefly met 2 times before the time skip when:

1- …..bro. It was love at first sight. FOR BOTH OF THEM. Are you fucking blind? Didn't you see all the flirting at the bar and after the bar???? Also for all that's sacred What is the fucking non-romantic heterosexual explanation for this?

2- This is more of a character analysis of mine, but I think Jack gave the positive enforcement Joke never got from his family. That created not only a bond between them but also kind of an emotional dependence from Joke. I honestly don't think Joke's feelings for Jack were super healthy at the beginning, especially with how self-destructive for him he is. And that's precisely why, although all those things he does for Jack after the time skip might seem too much if it was anyone else, it's still reasonable for him. He's so guilt-ridden that he fucked Jack over when all that Jack has ever offered was kindness and something Joke never had before, that he needs to overcompensate.

And especially because he's been marinating in guilt for 5 years, with only his thoughts and his self-deprecation as company, and then seeing how things escalated for Jack in a way he never imagined, that he feels the need to fix everything for him. That is the real meaning of the "100 ways to apologize".

-- OR when people say Jack and Joke's love is unbalanced. Like it feels Jack doesn't love Joke as much, that it's too sudden, that it doesn't have romance, yadda yadda.

Let's go back to the bar scene and afterwards. This is episode 1. This is the past. This is the first time they met. They literally left out the girl (poor Rosé I'm so sorry baby you fell for a homosexual) because they were in their own little world. The world they created on that bar when they shared bad experiences and made each other company in their sadness. The world that cheered both of them up in a day of misery. Also for all that's sacred What is the fucking non-romantic heterosexual explanation for this?[x2] (underage Jack is smooth as fuck)

Not even counting the scene at the bank when Jack was so happy to meet Joke again, and then even writing down his number for Joke and saying he'd love to go drinking with him again before he vanished.

Here's another character analysis: Jack is methodical, he doesn't act on impulse, and keeps everything to himself. This, added to the fact we don't often see things under his POV, makes him a bit hard to read.

Alright but damn, no one is caught daydreaming about the face/lips/closeness of someone they're not attracted to lmfjhsfd please. This is episode 4, c'mon.

There's also this (ep 6)

and this (ep 7)

(both of which I also made an analysis of from Jack's side in this post)

and this (ep 8)

So do you really think he just pulled everything that he did that night when they get together out of his ass instead of, after him and Joke reconcile, having actively nurtured this feeling THAT HAD ALWAYS BEEN THERE???? Damn, right when they met again Jack kept Joke from signing a loan contract with Boss because he knew it would be a point of no return. Because despite all the rage and bitterness, even then he still cared about Joke and didn't want that life for him.

Jack and Joke are opposites. Joke wears his heart on his sleeve while Jack has the necessity of hiding away anything that can be a weakness. It's all in between the lines for him. But that doesn't mean the feelings are not there. It's called nuance.

Also, shit, the mutual pining is so obvious idk these people might've watched it with their eyes closed or something. like?? Things start to get messy in Jack's life mostly because Joke came with his chaotic energy trying to make things right for Jack - and if Jack didn't, little by little, allow him to, Joke would've never succeed on being by his side. Jack starts losing control of things, of himself, because he's always being pulled by Joke, gravitating towards him, and he lets it happen because he wants it. Subconsciously or not.

Anyway Jack and Joke love each other and had always loved each other, period.

[shanblackrx]

"every NC I watched had simply been a choreography, of sorts."

Exactly! Usually NC scenes in Thai BL are just eye candy, and yeah whatever, valid, but they're hmm 'empty' so to speak, it's JUST for the hots and nothing more, just smashing two pretty actors and their characters together for the aesthetic with no actual substance to it. That's why I usually find NC scenes rather boring, even if hot. (listen, I'm a NSFW artist and I like my porn with plot ok)

The scenes also frequently feel like an obligation, like it's an expected step that follows a certain pattern and needs to be thrown into the story somehow and it doesn't really matter how it's presented. There's no hard thought about how the portrayal needs to be except... pretty and hot. And most of the time it still falls through the cracks and if it doesn't look performative and empty, then it looks cringe.

J&J NC scene has a whole context that comes from the start of the series, because the slow burn made the yearning build up to then peak in the kiss and sex. It was much more natural that it happened the way it happened, but especially how it happened.

YinWar and Tee (the director) said that they weren't interested in making the scene pretty, but to show the explosive desire of two men who had been waiting for this moment for a long time. And I think that's key to how the NC scene ended up being - they carried all the baggage Jack and Joke have into it, because the important thing here is what the two of them feel for each other, and not how it'll look on the screen.

OKAY I MAY BE STUPID BUT

One thing I JUST realized about J&J NC scene is that... only Jack ever talks.

(says the guy who just shoved Joke against the wall twice)

(you could, Jack. You should, actually)

(also, gods, the way Jack massages Joke's throat,,)

Do you think they sent grandma out somewhere one day just so they could scream

Honestly this bit and angle is so incredibly sexy I'm just dying all over again

(let Joke do it next time, Jack.)

Whereas Joke ever just responds in kind silently.

By either grinning and grabbing his tit

Devouring Jack with his eyes expectantly

Quickly nodding and pulling Jack down for a kiss, licking his lips like a thirsty man in the desert about to get a drop of water

Looking this criminally fucked out. It should be illegal for someone to look like this

Biting his lips and just nodding again.

This can be for various reasons, but I'm going to try coming up with explanations for it just for fun. Because I need a positive J&J yapping lol.

I think that before anything else, they're still young men, finally getting their (probably not very experienced) hands on each other after such a long time yearning and desiring, and getting nervous about it is natural. So talking to take off the edge a bit, or not talking to not ruin the moment, would be simple but valid reasons.

But I'd like to dig deeper into their brains and give it a bit of a character analysis.

First and foremost, I'd like to say that I find sex scenes a really good moment to explore the characters' more raw personalities, regardless of the media. Sex is, after all, an act of intimacy, and a lot of what happens and how people treat their partners during it reflects what they are outside the bedroom as well as how they are internally. Lots of feelings and insecurities are laid bare when you're going to sleep with someone, especially with who you're in love with, and even more especially if it's for the first time.

That said, two things are clear throughout the series: Jack has a very hard time letting go of control, and Joke is irredeemably devoid of self-preservation when it comes to Jack.

If you observe more closely, only Jack ever consciously stops Joke's advances to what looked like he'd 'lead' (maybe top), but Joke doesn't really do the same to him. Even when he flipped them both with those strong, juicy thighs, I can't read it as necessarily purposefully stopping Jack's advances but more like just to playfully fight for the lead like they were doing since the start.

Jack, however, STOPS Joke. He says "You think I'm gonna let you lead?" = I'm not giving up my control here. He straight up says 'stop' and pushes Joke away from him when he was straddling Jack's thighs and once again taking the lead, then forcefully flipped them back over and said he's gonna do it this time.

Whilst Joke just goes with the flow, obviously still being the brat he is, but never denying Jack of anything; every time Jack took the lead, Joke's let him do anything he wanted, be it pushing him against a wall, pushing him on the couch, grabbing his chin to not so gently pull him back to a kiss, let his hands get immobilized over his head, and agreeing to take the bottom position. He just let Jack take, and take, and take, and he was happy (and horny) with it.

So I think that for their first time, their personalities and even negative traits bloomed in their sexual little games. Jack still struggling to let go even though he trusts Joke, and Joke still letting himself aside for Jack's comfort. This exact dynamic encapsulates their essence perfectly, and it's actually very interesting to see it so clearly in this scene.

And now from another angle, which instead of negating the previous point actually enriches it, especially because there's a lot of factors involved and they're very complex characters.

We all saw with the kiss how starved Joke was, to the point Jack had to reel them back. I think at that exact point, Jack has had come to terms with his feelings in a way that made him go past all the anxiety. I've talked about it a bit here, and also here (the third confession, more specifically). So when he confessed to Joke and asked him to be his boyfriend, it was all a calculated move of someone who went through a whole, rather slow process and knew what he wanted.

Joke, on the other hand, beside the fact he's been pining the fuck out since 5 years ago, was not actually expecting for that to happen (I mean, he might've known it probably wasn't unrequited, but there's a long way from knowing that to a proper relationship). He got a confirmation that their feelings were mutual and asked to be in a relationship with the love of his life, without any actual prior warning or signals. So it came as a surprise. Even though he heard Jack saying he liked someone else while turning down Rosé, and probably wondering if it really was him, he only asked about the person Jack liked because Jack willingly opened that door for him.

So taking this as their initial inner moments diving into the horny, it might be that Jack was simply more clear-headed than Joke; regardless of the surprise or euphoria he might've felt when Joke said yes, he had gone through a whole internal process that Joke had not, at that point, and gave him a little bit more of a clear mind, allowing him to consciously flirt and banter with Joke in bed, and taking more straightforward decisions.

Whilst Joke was in a trance, acting and reacting on sensations alone, high on the fact he's being allowed to touch Jack like that, going just with his instincts. Absolutely gone. I doubt his brain was working at a capacity of forming actual words, and we know how much he loves to run his mouth. his brain was probably rotating dick dick hole jack hole dick jack

So this scene tells us a whole lot about them, exactly how I like my NC scenes. If it was a conscious decision or not I don't really care; I just know they've delivered one of the best NC scenes in Thai BL not just because of the level of spicy, but also because of how consistent the portrayal of their characters was, showing much more than just a hot scene.