#that being said guyyyys.. I think from now on I'll avoid asks about trying to predict DLC stuff

[katyspersonal]

i saw your post about your predictions for messmer and they're all interesting, so do you think Messmer would be one of those fromsoft "irredeemably villains" or he would have shades of grey like Martin's main characters ? if i am not mistaken Myazaki said something about Messmer being one of the characters GRRM wrote for the game.

Thank you for the compliment @ first anon! And yeah, I assume that Messmer counts as one of the characters that Martin wrote, referring to the bit of interview @val-of-the-north helped me to find just yesterday!

( x )

Miyazaki and Martin really write their 'villains' differently, huh? My observation is, Fromsoft style is more along the lines of "Yeah this character done shit beyond the very scope of how us simple humans can even define a sin or crime, but also allow us to present it all in such a confusing, existential, grand scheme manner that you'll doubt whether character is truly in the wrong. Heck, is ANYONE in the wrong? In fact, what if the worst people are the best? What if no one has the real choice anyways but to pick their own poison? What if the most atrocious decisions are actually the most heroic? What if-

YEAH YEAH whatever shuddup. Martin really feels more common "This character having been a victim doesn't excuse their crimes but also this character's crimes don't make bad things that happen with them right". And so far I've noticed that Elden Ring's writing of the 'bads' falls MORE on Martin's side, even if some previously familiar tropes are there!

I'll use Mohg as volunteer! Mohg is presumably a sex offender, towards his half-sibling too, but you can't help but feel bad for him being raised in the severs and alienated from his family as abomination save for his twin brother that expresses results of such oppression differently, but you can't really excuse anything! If Elden Ring was a pure Miyazaki's creation, no Martin's involvement, execution of his "morality" would go more like: when Mohg was trapped in the severs he saw a dream that actually revealed the true meaning of this world to him and now he knew only one way to end the pain like he and Morgott experienced and fix the world to the better existed, which was to get into a system Greater Will set up and become a consort for the only available Empyrean, was he REALLY in the wrong to choose one crime to end many ooooo something something train dilemma maybe he'd be a way worse person if he learned of the one way to fix the world and still did nothing clinging to a morality that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things OR MAYBE DOES IT OOOOOOHHHH

Basically the latter vibe is not something I am seeing in the big bads of Elden Ring as much! They ARE morally grey, justified or not justified not by some transcendental existential matters but by combination or their very close, very realistic circumstances and how they've reacted to them! The debate on whether character is redeemable boils down to how much agency one can have in this or that situation more than the "horror of knowing your choices"! So, I expect Messmer to be "morally grey"! Maybe whatever he did, under assumption that he DID do something bad, came from his own flaws but he'd have a point in his own way. Or maybe he was done dirty in his life and:

As for whether he'd be worse than Mohg? I think he COULD be! Mohg kidnapped Miquella in his stasis and is now worshipping his "dead" flesh in his madness. The only worse thing to do would be to like, annihilate Miquella, which I CAN see Messmer potentially doing! He spoke with a disdain towards being devoid of Grace from how I've interpreted it, which Miquella did do:

Okay, okay, maybe we will NOT get a dramatic scene of him obliterating Miquella just before we got a chance to do anything, that might be a stretch! Let's HOPE that won't happen! But there could be an attempt, or he could be holding him hostage like @alma-amentet said. AND there could be a general sentiment by Messmer having a very...... awkward position regarding existence of those he deems less worthy or unequal (by being devoid of Grace in this case) that passes beyond the level of simple oppression, let's JUST call it that fsdhfhsd

And, again, there of course would be some "reasoning" behind that attitude that'll leave space for debates! Like maybe Marika herself hardcore trained him to be this way before leaving, and he had no real means to reconsider being in isolation from the 'real' world! Whatever made him this or that way, as a bad/worse person is not a result of Eldrich madness or sense of the world ending anyway, but something very understandable and human. Sympathetic, even! I can already imagine the "he had no chance for a perspective change or more information, but it is still what it is, so he is still terrible even if not willfully" sentiment! Or something close!

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Okay thank you for the asks, but I must admit, it's been 8 years since I touched Martin's writing and my memory might be failing me with some specifics! And, of course, the difference between Miyazaki-only writing and Martin being involved is not that drastic, I've just tried to maximise it to actually make a point! It is still a collab, and I am betting more on Martin-style approach with Messmer; this is just my version of what his critical flaw could be if it WILL happen!