#without understanding... idk. the difference between an individual soldier's evil and the evil of an entire institution?
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Between TF and my other fandoms like BG3 and TES, I keep finding myself making OCs that have some element of "battle hardened hero who is actually good and righteous, but so traumatized by the toll of war that even after the war ends they feel empty/wrecked and can't enjoy the fruits of victory" and I'm not sure if it's bc I gravitate to a certain type of media where such OCs fit in best, or bc I have a specific character archetype I like and gravitate towards media that contains those things.
#squiggposting#possibly a mix of both bc idk if i've gone into detail here but war stories are one of my favorite genre of stories#like for fun fictional reasons but also for real life political and moral and emotional implications#war stories are literally so fucking cool man i feel like they get a bad rap for just being propaganda tools#and obv a lot of them can be/are explicitly made to be but also like#(i feel like i'm stealing a quote from one such story) war stories are also a method for the soldiers of the war to tell their side#and usually the soldier's side of the story tells of the LESS glorious and propagandistic sides#maybe ive just had the pleasure of having really good teachers/professors but like#most of the war stories i've read are specifically ABOUT the bridge bt war propaganda and the actual experience of fighting in a war#and i think even the ones where the soldier in question supports the war (american sniper comes to mind)#it's very interesting and dare i say important to read it and understand when and why and how they came to support war#like idk i think it's one of those things where ppl shy away from war stories bc#'ew gross it's all pro war probably american imperialist propaganda written by oppressive killers trying to make us feel sorry for them'#without understanding... idk. the difference between an individual soldier's evil and the evil of an entire institution?#some sort of anti intellectualism regarding soldiers as being inherently evil ppl who aren't to be listened to or taken seriously?#it's not a matter of like. you don't need to like or sympathize with them per se. but i think part of understanding and criticizing#the institution of war is getting the ground level testimonies about it. and more of them are critical than some ppl believe#plus i mean FUCK usamerican imperialism it doesn't need to be about US wars! other countries lived thru other wars that are also important!#war stories may have their strongest association w american imperialism but that doesn't mean other war stories don't exist#idk sorry for rambling in the tags
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A fun game to play to stretch your critical thinking muscles is "did this movie I just watch receive money from the US military?"
It's been since 2016 since there was a new reliable list of which movies got funding from the military, and it is definitely worth questioning. This is how you train your brain to question the text of a piece of media vs. the intent/message it portrays.
There are plenty of movies not worth discussing. "Top Gun: Maverick" was, imo, both a technically excellent film and a two-plus hour recruitment ad for the Navy. But there are also a lot of movies that are pretty questionable; being unanimously pro-military isn't necessarily a knock-out criteria. Captain America: The Winter Soldier for example alleges there is an evil conspiracy up into the highest ranks of the military/military-adjacent organizations, and it got funding. So ask yourself questions.
Like, "Oppenheimer". Was "Oppenheimer" funded by the military? It's a rare overtly military-critical film from Hollywood, especially in that the decision to use the atomic bomb is criticized. On the other hand, some military figures, especially Matt Damon, are portrayed sympathetically. The movie comes down a lot more heavily on the side of criticizing a government acting without sufficient thought or understanding of the technology than it does the individual member of the US military. Given it's ambivalent at best and Oppenheimer's choice to work with the military is frequently questioned, I would hazard a guess it wasn't subsidized by the military, but who knows?
How about "the Creator"? Another movie currently in theaters which is very critical of the US military, they're the bad guys. Except for the lead of course, and several of his fellow soldiers. Really, it's mostly the commander lady who is shown as being evil, and a hypocrite. Adding to which, this movie is very pro-AI and humanizes AI to the point of alleging there is no difference between humans and sufficiently advanced AI. I'm not an expert on military tech, but I think the military does profit quite a lot from using AI. The movie also shows the US to be at war with a vaguely defined pan-Asian state that includes China and most of Southeast Asia. Again, I can see the US military seeing a net gain in positioning this part of the world as an enemy of the US. On the other hand, the movie positions itself on the Asian side with the main character fighting against the Americans and deserting the military, making him a hero, which doesn't seem like something the Pentagon would support.
Idk absent transparency from Hollywood and the military, the question remains unanswered. I just think it's good to question what beliefs a piece of media is supporting and analyzing whether you agree with them.
"Fiction is not a 1:1 reflection of reality" and "the U.S. military doesn't support and finance American action movies and video games for fun" are concepts that can and should coexist
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Legion Rewatch Notes,
Chapter 8:
The Revolution
Aw man, how unfortunate what’s happened to Clark. I feel soooooooo bad. I mean he was just humble div 3 agent, doing his job, gaslighting marginalized individuals, participating in a genocide. How cruel of those bad bad mutants to injure him so badly. He was only actively about to kill David. What could he possibly have done to deserve any of this?
In other words, the Clark propaganda is not working on me this time. At all.
Maybe don’t participate in a genocide? Idk :/
I normally hate when people type in the passive aggressive way I have been for the past few paragraphs, but goddamn, Clark deserves it.
He’s not quite as damaged... but he’s kind’ve like old David here, from the over-medicated living with Amy timeline. Again, not quite as damaged as that though.
Clark considers mutants a “threat to democracy.” 🙄 “Moral panic” I guess?
“The second I walk outta this room, i’m going to war.” There’s that word again. Clark could just... not, and they’d probably have more time to figure out how to safely eradicate Farouk. But because he doesn’t and David busies himself with peace treaties, Farouk escapes and continues to be a problem for the next year. Clark has a family. A husband and child who love him to death. And he chooses war over them. This pattern will repeat in other character. Technically this isn’t even the start of it.
Suit change, new cane, same Clark. This really doesn’t change anything, does it? He could go through the rest of the series in the suit he wore before and it wouldn’t make difference. The valiant hero dressing for an expected victory over their long time (relatively) rival, only to be stopped immediately by an unforeseen development. This pattern will repeat... tragically.
Considering Farouk!David woulda just dusted them, it’s probably nice for his friends to see the real him is much less violent. He just stacks em like a Jenga Tower, no need for anything more.
Also, Wilhelm scream from one of the soldiers.
He’s also talking strangely. In an almost too calm voice. Measured. He talks like this a few other times, but I think those times have sadder context. Maybe they reflect on this moment. He talks like how he talked when Farouk was mind-melded with him, but his intentions aren’t evil this time around. I guess this is just his “fully in control” voice.
Clark’s literally shaking where he stands.
The zoom in to Clark’s blind eye is reminiscent to previous zoom in’s to Walter’s foggy eye. I guess Clark has taken on the role of Walter, artificially. Makes sense since he’s now the main D3 representative/antagonist like Walter was before.
“I don’t care if you save me, or the world, if you don’t save yourself.” David will eventually choose himself over the world, and Syd. And Syd will hunt him for it. Goes to show how much things change in s2.
“You know the most dangerous thing about schizophrenia?”
“You’re not-“
“The most dangerous thing is believing... you don’t have it! That’s the trick, the mind killer, your disease convinces you you don’t have it. So, for example, one day in the hospital you meet a girl and she has some friends, and they tell you you’re not sick. You have superpowers. And more than anything you wanna believe it because that means you’re not crazy! That means you can fall in love and live happily ever after. But you know if you believe it, if you surrender to the hope and you’re wrong, then... you’re never coming back.”
“I’m here. I’m real. The power is real. You gotta accept it, otherwise we can’t move on.”
“I was in Clockworks for six years. Drugged, doing nothing. Contributing nothing. And now, finally I can be useful! I can help! Don’t you get it? I am so sick of myself. This only works if it’s not about me.”
“David...”
So... that’s a lot. David believes being crazy means he’s not allowed to fall in love, or be happy. He said the same sentiment to Amy before Clockworks. This whole season and this episode especially push David into his full “I’m not insane, I won’t believe you if you tell me otherwise” mindset. At the very least that’s the stakes we’re playing with. If David fully gives into the hope, even for a moment, he believes there’s no possibility for recovery. No possibility for love or happiness. Why even try after that? It’s life or death for him. “If the choice is between life and death, I choose life.”
I know this is all already known and talked about and circulated 100’s of times over in various fan circles, but it’s probably the most important line for David’s character (the speech, not the Farouk quote). It’s very ableist, yes, but at least in the moment it’s coming from someone who’s just being too hard on themselves, and not ya know, being actively validated by the show.
2 episodes ago David talked about being worried about an “invincible” feeling. The dangers of mania.
We also know from that episode that David is more at peace in a calm, responsibilityless setting (with Syd) than he is out in the real world. David’s gonna take on a ton of responsibility, some of it’s gonna draw him away from Syd. At multiple moments throughout the show David has known his own mental health better than any of the others, and even warned them about potentially dangerous slopes he could fall down without their help. Despite this, David is pushed further down a path he tells them is dangerous and is still blamed for what happens in the end. I feel like Oliver’s line from ep4 is relevant here again, “We are the root of all our problems. Our anger, our confusion, our fear of things we don’t understand.” Everyone wants David to be something other than... David. A hero, a god, there projected image of a perfect partner. Not just... David.
Man, the more I realize about David’s self-awareness in s1 the madder I am at Syd for saying all that ableist stuff to him in s2 as if he wasn’t already down on himself 24/7. “It never occurred to you that you’re the problem not the solution?” It’s occurred to him like 5 times by now and has been shut down by you at least 3 of those times. I don’t understand.
What’s strange is... to my recollection David doesn’t believe he’s invincible at the end of s2. Or that he’s not sick.
“Saint David.”
“I’m not saying that. I make mistakes.”
“Say you’re gonna let them kill me if I don’t let them turn me into something different. Something easy. Something clean.” He sounds sinister here, but it is an indication that he knows he’s not perfect. In fact it sounds like he’s trying to appeal to Chap 1 Syd’s mentality. Your disorder is what “makes you you.”
So what’s the message here?
“We can’t just kill people. Or is that who we are now?”
“That’s who they are.”
The justification for killing here is that they’ll kill them if they don’t. Div 3 will kill Summerland if Summerland doesn’t kill Div 3, is what I meant. David has a similar justification for killing Shadow King in s2. Well, he has a LOT of justifications for it, but that’s one of them. Syd doesn’t hear it then either. She does attempt to kill David herself though. I don’t quite understand where the line is.
“He was gonna kill you, twice.”
“With that kind of thinking wars would never end.”
So... he shoulda just talked to The Shadow King when they were both powerless? Talking is what ultimately ends their fight in s3... hmm...
Cary is more humane to their POW than Melanie and Ptonomy are.
The show doesn’t necessarily say it was Cary’s fault for leaving Kerry. Either way though, Kerry needs some space.
Melanie calls David a “world breaker” and outright says now that he knows that’s what he is, div 3 doesn’t stand a chance. I suppose... knowing that... is why they so readily team with Farouk. They stood no chance otherwise. Even then, at least hide him away till after the intervention.
David’s floating meditation pose is seen more in s2 and A LOT more in s3.
He puts the onus of ending the war on Div 3. As if to say, “If things get violent again, it’ll be on you, not us.”
People keep talking about “gods” “waking up” and “realizing they don’t have to listen to us/them anymore.”
When Clark says it David’s first response is, “Isn’t that the history of the world?” But it’s a red herring (or something else) cause he follows it up with, “People of different nations, different languages, learning to live together?”
Clark is afraid if mutants gain power they won’t show humans mercy or equality. This is a common belief among fascist. The “they’ll treat us like we treat them” argument. Only it’s rarely self-aware, and it isn’t here either. Clark genuinely believes he’s not doing anything wrong. It’s all somehow in “self defense.”
Ah, so Farouk and Syd are connected psychically. He entered her mind whenever she entered David’s. He psychically affects her at multiple points throughout the series.
Syd here is convinced to help The Shadow King by The Shadow King. And while he’s wearing a mask at that. Yeah yeah, this pattern will repeat. But still, Syd gives in relatively quickly here. Perhaps she just... doesn’t fully trust Summerlands capabilities? They are legitimately trying to get rid of Farouk, but Farouk has proven time and time again how dangerous he is. Or maybe the “unmake soup” thing is just that convincing to Syd.
Clark’s still standoffish, but he’s slowly becoming more cooperative.
Syd rolled a 4 on that hero speech. She needed at least a 7.
I legitimately NEVER noticed before that Syd secretly turns on the lab camera feed for Clark to watch. They weren’t trying to show him that.
David gets a chance to look back at his whole life and recontextualize everything.
David straight up halts Farouk’s theme. If Clockworks Podcast is right and he can hear that whenever Farouk shows up, this would be evidence of it. Alternatively, he was halting Farouk, and the music halting was for the audience. A fun subversion of expectations.
David describes him and Farouk as, “The Sun and Moon.”
Division 3 sees it. The monster they saw on infrared. Clearly a separate entity from David Haller. Clearly of a different disposition than David Haller as David Haller has acted very differently and non-hostile compared to when they saw him roaming those HQ halls. The monster and David are not the same. They see who their real enemy is now.
It seems evident there was no chance of David beating Farouk on his own here. I wonder why? Was it true? Is Farouk just too ingrained in his mind? Cary said he was like a, “Computer virus. Learning his systems, bypassing his defenses.” Maybe Syd remembered that, and that’s why she believed Farouk. Cause Cary had already said something similar before.
Clark could've escaped, but he stayed, then tried to help fight Farouk.
I feel really sad Oliver got possessed. It never occurred to me before he could even tell Melanie he remembered her. Melanie’ll just go on thinking he never remembered her for a year.
And thus it’s established. There are “good mutants” and there are “bad mutants.”
No one checks on Ptonomy :(
The Lenny that’s talking to Oliver here is still just Farouk.
Did the orb go back as far as it could? Or was this time specifically chosen? If it was chosen, it was probably because it’s very soon after Farouk had been expelled from David’s head, and before the big race for his body starts.
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[DO NOT REBLOG PLEASE.]
(THIS IS NOT FACT, IT’S JUST MY PERSONAL VIEW. Keep that in mind! How I interpret media is probably different than your own perception! This also has one vague personal anecdote about my past with abuse as forewarning.)
(Also I avoid canon names as to keep this shit out of tags so this may sound incredibly dorky, apologies.)
This by no means is meant to discredit or harm abuse victims- please take this as a “bringing some nuance” to the discussion rather than an outright attack on someone’s ideas/beliefs. If I wanted to or planned to attack people- I’d reblog them and go off. This is a discussion on the concept, not anyone specifically. If you see the ship as abuse personally- that’s your perspective. I have no right to tell you not to think that way and this mini-essay does not carry that intent.
C*tradora is a ship people are starting to consider abusive and while I agree in present context it might be to a degree (though I’d call it TOXIC, not abusive) I feel like people forget that things between both of them can very much change.
Abuse cycles only exist when the line is indoctrinated into believing that their behavior is right- when it’s a situation where they can’t find outside support to break that thinking... though Cat has two key characters who will most likely push her to a redemption arc- Scorpy and Entra. Both can be easily re-goodguy-ised due to their already neutral stances on the horde vs. everyone else, and it’s clear Cat relies on them both to some degree as she’d have never fully gotten the chance to overcome BADMOM without them.That can lead into Cat trying to make amends with Ador- bringing up her abandonment issues, possibly finding her homeland- finding out that she’s the princess of beasts or idk attractive cat people. It’s a very open plotline if you look at her original iteration from the 80s.
Sidenote- this argument was a common one back when barnmates was released and people shouted that lap//idot was abusive when it really wasn’t. It was toxic, that is until Peri learned to respect Lapis’ identity and allowed Lapis to approach her on her own merit. It took true redemption to finally push both of them to their true selves- to true recovery. Both had to lose everything before they could remotely consider healing, be it limb enhancers or having to flee to the moon out of fear. (Even if their progress wasn’t really shown, rushed writing of a subplot is a valid crit. of their relationship.)
The abuser in that ship was neither of the two involved- it was the abuse they suffered from their upbringing, from homeworld, which is very similar to the evil horde. In ALL of their cases, they only learn and heal once AWAY from their abusers, the narrative of “cat is becoming an abuser BAD SHIP” is one that is very.. understandable to some extent, but also sort of harmful to people who suffered parental abuse or other forms of systematic abuse. It’s saying “this pair is bad- all people who were abused will become abusers” and that’s frankly untrue and very nihilistic. I’d say if you’re a victim who never got help/didn’t fully recover long after escaping, you have a higher probability of becoming an abuser or showing abusive tendencies, but the notion that Cat WILL become an abuser or IS becoming one is highly flawed IN MY OPINION.
I’d argue that cat struggles with being toxic herself while in the horde, though once she distances herself she’ll become less and less consumed by it. We won’t see this until we see more of the show- it’s only the FIRST SEASON, so making big assumptions like “this ship will ALWAYS be abusive” is incredibly shallow. This isn’t an issue you can apply black and white thinking to- it’s an incredibly grey sort of relationship. Likewise- cat is still a TEENAGER (I know it’s hard to remember with some animation styles) and until you hit a certain age (it varies from 18-21, it’s an ongoing argument I’d rather not open up as I have a very individual based belief that it’s all on your personal development rather than age) who is living under AN ABUSIVE DICTATORSHIP where they intentionally brainwash these youngins into being super soldiers. It’s very much implied that cat was abused more heavily for developing feelings for her equal, hence why BADMOM was so keen on abusing cat. It’s why she was seen as “poisoning” Ador and was responsible for behavior Ador did that she was by no means in control of.
Alright, anecdote time because abuse and abandonment issues are like.. a big thing with my past. I used to, when I was in an abusive relationship/friendship, do what Cat does to some degree- when I could escape I didn’t. When I could do the right thing I didn’t. When I could hold my own view on the world I didn’t. When everyone told me I could get away from the abuse I didn’t and yknow why?
It’s easier to let it keep happening while being fully aware it happens. Hence why Cat KNOWING BADMOM was abusing them was such a hit in the face. Cat is a VICTIM, she doesn’t know anything better than what she has and the thought of having NOTHING is far more horrifying than the “comfort” of your normalcy- which is far from normal, it’s abuse. As an outsider, even as a possible victim yourself, it can seem so.. irrational for someone to keep going back, it can seem like they’re just reveling in the “power” aligning with abusers as a victim can have, but it’s anything but that. Sure- you can ham it up and act like that’s your intention, that you’re no victim, that you’re just “doing what’s right” but in the end all you’re doing is admitting you’ve fallen to the parasitic existence that is being a true abuser.
What happens when the victim, the host, is subject to repeated failures in the eyes of an abuser? You’re abandoned, thrown away. You’re demoted, mocked, called a “traitor” and left to fend for yourself. (In a hypothetical horde that is. Real life isn’t as theatrical... I’d hope.) Those people who wanted to help you may not be around still- you may have scared them off, they may have forgotten about you, they may have given up. Though in time alone you start seeing the world for what it is, eventually people come back once they see you’re away from your controller- you begin healing. People will return, just not the people you expect to- not your abuser, not your abuser’s abuser. Friends, people who saw the good in you but couldn’t handle seeing you destroy yourself or others for a twisted, sick abuser.
Though, with healing comes guilt, and with guilt comes understanding. The road to redemption isn’t a single action, it’s a chain that starts once you realize how messed up your situation is. I see that in Cat- starting with when she gave Ador her sword back, admitting without her she has no purpose to her abuser, no purpose for herself. “Letting go” of her feelings for Ador is not literal- it’s never that simple, they fester- it’s a sign that the grasp her abuser had on her is starting to break, so she has to do more drastic things to justify her actions, she has to desperately find some form of “usefulness” to the horde otherwise Ador was right. Otherwise BADMOM was, to some twisted degree, right. Cat is, by the definition of the Horde- weak, because she LOVES her lifelong teammate, her role model, her best friend. Love is not allowed under the rule of the Horde as it means she’d turn on them if it meant helping who she loved, so that was routinely beat into her. Ador never showed the same “weakness” in her- she could ignore her feelings and get results, she was always useful to the horde and losing her to her discovering she is capable of feeling things the horde deems unfit made her undesirable to the big bad guy.
If I am proven wrong and cat is later on shown to be 100% abusive, then yes- I won’t defend the ship at all on that. Though in the current state it’s a far more complex situation than “is cat an abuser” or not.
This sounds like a youtube script I know, so I’ll leave you with this last thought:
We can’t mend an abuser, but we can clean off the toxicity from a victim, thus preventing good people from becoming that which torments them. It’s not going to be solved by asking people to leave their situations- it takes a lot more effort to push someone to their own conclusions which is ultimately the best way to help someone caught in that sort of situation. You cannot force someone blinded by an abuser to “see the truth” if they refuse to, though you can influence their views and offer perspective to a situation they once saw as black and white.
In the end- the true evil is the system and parental figures these characters were raised by, not each other. I hope this could bring even just a little grey thought to those reading.
Thank you.
#hey ash whatcha sayin#ultimate analysis#its back again!!! the tag!!!#sorry if this is a mess of disjointed ideas im a tad messed up due to sleep problems but i hope the core concept at least lands#long post
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She was a tortured child who's very first experience with any sense of freedom came directly after she took four lives. Not long after that incident, she was taken in by someone who's caused the first apocalypse, is trying to cause a second and was cursed with immortality for not understanding the value of life and death. In summary, Cinder didn't need to be a child soldier to learn all the wrong lessons. We're in agreement with those circumstances not excluding her from punishment but we're in disagreement as to what that punishment should be. I'm against killing her. Period. My apologies if I'm not interested in seeing someone who's been repeatedly forced into terrible situations, having no real agency over the course of their life, be unceremoniously cut down like a mini-boss, having never managed to escape a lifetime of abuse. I know who she is and what she's done. I also understand how she came to be that person and why she feels the need to do these things.
This section was originally centered around you not agreeing with having different levels of murder charges. Now you're saying that certain criminal acts warrant killing. Well, if the killer has any forethought to the killing, that's Pre-meditation. Meaning it's the definition of "murder". But since, in such instances, the victim deserved it because what they did was worse than what was done to them... So what would their killer be considered as? Having premeditated a fatal act of violence on another individual, outside of the law, what would they be if it can't be considered murder? Aa murder is universally punished at one level, the most extreme level. And then what punishment would they receive?
You're arguing potentialities with Adam vs what was happening in the moment. In that instant, he had no weapon nor aura. It was 2v1; what could he have done were they to subdue and contain him and idk turn him over to the authorities? Who in the white fang would be itching to break Adam out of prison after the events of volumes 4-6? After many already were put off by his instability and other faunus were joining the cause, once again under Ghira? How would he have followed them from prison? Adam is a bad person who's done bad things but they killed him when he wasn't a threat.
That was in reference to you implying that you did in fact want to see some characters redeemed. It's contradictory because they've all commited murders, or aided in plans that resulted in many deaths. If the act of murder is universally reviled and should be punished accordingly, you shouldn't be okay with anyone being redeemed. Yet you've implied that you are okay with certain characters being afforded this chance. And that's contridictory. Doesn't have anything to do with your ability to enjoy the series as a fan...
There's a difference between the woman who's been on a quiet quest for the destruction of all life on the planet for tens of thousands of years and the traumatized slave child that the aforementioned woman took in and trained from the ground up in the art of sadism and mass destruction. Cinder is directly responsible for the fall, Salem is directly responsible for Cinder. Salem didn't ask Cinder for a favor, she made Cinder believe that this was what needed to be done in order to achieve her own goal of power. The context matters.
Villains and antagonists aren't the same thing. Adam was a villain, Ironwood an antagonist. Adam's death wasn't necessary in the moment, already said that, but the world isn't worse off without him. Ironwood died tragically, unable to trust anyone outside of himself long enough to realize that he wasn't the savior of the world but could have been one of them if he ditched the paranoia. Ironwood is a lot more sympathetic, he was never really evil. Can't compare him to Cinder
But I got you on the Adam thing. He and Cinder were played as having similarly sympathetic childhoods. But Adam got out. I'm not saying he escaped the torment of being a Faunus in a racist world, but he found support. He found other Faunus who cared about him, respected him, uplifted him, protected him, brought him in when he needed it and let him know that he wasn't alone.
He then chose to say "that's nice but anyway" and threw it all away in the pursuit of vengeance. He chose to stay spiteful, warped the movement to one about Supremacy vs equality and then risked it all, killing his allies, just to chase a girl who left him. Again, in the moment of his death, he wasn't a threat but...I don't think many will be grieving his loss.
On the other hand, we have Cinder. Her support group is Salem, Watts, Tyrian and Hazel. Emerald and Mercury don't count, they're not much better off than Cinder. Their only saving grace is that they weren't adopted by the antichrist; they're still very much in need of support. Cinder didn't get a chance at something better and then chose to be worse, whereas Adam very much did. Cinder just keeps ending up in worse versions of her last hell.
Jaune legit tried to kill her.
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