avatarfandompolice

[avatarfandompolice]

Hasn't Zuko been actively conversing casually with his mother and spending time with his new sister frequently? Doesn't he spend time with Suki and Ty Lee? His friends that are also obligated to be around him?

Also Mai wasn't really insulting him? The same people saying this will go to bat for the "I don't want to hear your life story" scene. Just seems like another excuse to hate the comics because they have real conflict in them.

i lowkey wanted mai and zuko to sit down and talk during the comics cuz the show mai wouldnt just say "bye loser" without hearing him out and insulting him. The comics hated zuko and made his life worse than the show.

His uncle is somewhere and didnt even send a letter while shit was going down, his sister has gone completely insane and ran away, his mother has a new family, in my opinon, I preferred ursa to be forgotten or like dead, cuz her coming back was worse than her dying, cuz imagine ur mom leaving you to protect you and leaves a letter on how ur not ur father's son which makes ur dad hate u more, she choses to forget you and remember her lover and start a new family, anyways i dont like ursa and u dont have to hate her too.

I am a certified atla comics hater, not including the cute kataang comics

[avatarfandompolice]

'Jin fanatics legit think Zuko "deserves" to spend the rest of his life with a literal plot device—'

She's not "a literal plot device" because she doesn't move the plot forward. Tales of Ba Sing Se is a breather episode. In analysis she would be considered a "flat character." Flat characters exist to fill specific roles/functions, and Jin's role was to be a nice date for Zuko. Credit goes to Jin's artists, writers, and voice actor because she filled that role so well people still remember her, wish to know more about her, and yes, ship her with Zuko (the horror 🙄).

The general perception is that flat character = bad character, but this is incorrect. "One-scene wonders" are flat characters. Suki is/was a flat character, but the writers and fans liked her so much she was brought back multiple times, is incredibly beloved, and is comfortably shipped with main characters. This obviously didn’t happen for Jin, but she's the MC of an official novel now, so clearly she made enough of an impression that Avatar studios took notice. You can't deny that, even if her screentime will never exceed 5 minutes, even if the jinko ship is throughly sunk by canon.

Call Jin/jinko fans delulu all you like, but your criticism is way off base. The vitriol for a small corner of the fandom is also unnecessary. The only jinkos I've seen being rude were actually parasitic zutara shippers. Do you have a problem with Aang x On-Ji shippers too? What about Smellerbee fans or people who wonder what the cabbage merchant's deal is? Why is the snarky comment reserved for Jin fans when you clearly consider her a nothing-burger character not worth a second thought?

The “flat character” analysis is correct, but I think the post I shared was on-base in that it’s ridiculous to say Zuko “deserved” someone who was just there to progress his character externally from his relationship with her. She was just there to make him realize that he can be nice and do things for himself rather than constantly searching for the avatar and trying to prove himself.

The issue with Jin x Zuko is that it often comes from a “well at least it isn’t that dumb bitch Mai” approach rather than “I just think they’re cute together” approach. It’s a grass-is-greener scenario for people who vastly misjudge Mai’s character and her own importance to Zuko’s character as well as her own intrigue as a character. Either that or it’s Zutara shippers using it as a middle ground to, once again, shit on Mai.

And there will always be a couple crazy shippers of “character that appears once X main character” that end up gaslighting themselves into thinking the former character is more important than they really are. Not saying that’s you, or that’s all of them, but they do exist.

I don’t have a problem with Jin at all, and I don’t really care if people ship Zuko with her (or anyone with anyone). It’s when ships are used as ammunition to shit on other characters, the writers, etc. due to a lack of actual substance in an argument when I have an issue.

[avatarfandompolice]

Have the "Katara has no statue" discorsers considered that maybe she doesn't have one because she's alive and/or doesn't want one?

Aang and Sokka are dead. Toph is not dead, but to the rest of the world she might as well be. Plus she's the type who would enjoy statues of herself. Zuko probably doesn't care about statues of himself, but would probably cave if a loved one or the general public was keen on it.

If Katara wanted a statue made while she was still alive, there would be one. She would make that happen. If she didn't, she would make sure her wishes were respected.

I’m just here bashing my head trying to figure when we determined that the entire worth of a character hinges on them having a realistic concrete replica of themselves. This is the most non-issue to ever non-issue. There are countless times in LOK and all post-ATLA content that demonstrate that she is highly respected and seen as one of the most powerful benders. I guess some people are literally so incapable of comprehension that a physical object MUST be there in order to show that the character is important because they’re so ignorant of anything happening in the narrative.

I don’t think Katara would care either way whether she had a statue or not. I don’t think anyone working on the show intentionally didn’t give her a statue, and I don’t think them not giving her one says anything about them or their treatment of her character. It’s just a fucking STATUE. WHO. FUCKING. CARES.

[avatarfandompolice]

You’re still failing to show how this is a retcon. You’re just slightly twisting what’s happening into a scenario that you don’t like. I don’t know what the purpose is here, especially if you liked the comic.

Casual reminder that learning new information you don’t like about a story is not a retcon by default. You just don’t like it.

[avatarfandompolice]

Azula is both a product of her environment AND a catalyst for both her environment and others around her’s environments. Again, Mai never singles out Azula as the sole cause of her being on the side of the Fire Nation during the war. She wasn’t even enthusiastic enough about her motives at the time to really be considered a supporter. She *was* coaxed by Azula into doing that, and she did have the ability to refuse, but Azula is the princess and is shown to get her way no matter what. That is because she is a product of her environment AND a catalyst for the environment of others.

There is not really a point anywhere in Mai’s own perspective or within the wider narrative where Mai is shown to morally and emotionally side with what the FN is doing, and thus there isn’t a point where this nebulous loyalty can be pinned on her blaming Azula for it. Mai is shown to be aware that Azula is just an extension of the Fire nation’s tyranny. She shows this in the TV series. There’s nothing being retconned.

Casual reminder that learning new information you don’t like about a story is not a retcon by default. You just don’t like it.

[avatarfandompolice]

No, Mai “blaming Azula for things she did” is a “retcon” because you don’t like it. Mai never uses it as a way to justify her doing what she did. It’s an example of giving a reason versus giving an excuse, of which she is doing the former. If she was using it as an excuse, she wouldn’t be staunchly trying to drive the Fire Nation kids away from the influence Azula and the country at the time had on her.

You’re basically giving an example that one character apologizing and trying to actively right their previous wrongs is not a retcon. Then you consider another one doing essentially the same thing, just with some backstory as to why the bad decisions were made, a retcon. Because you didn’t like it.

Casual reminder that learning new information you don’t like about a story is not a retcon by default. You just don’t like it.

[avatarfandompolice]

I feel like the live-action atla series has led to the resurgence of Zutara fans. Which is fine, I don't really care what people ship in their free time. What makes me uncomfortable is how ZK shippers are asking for their ship to be canon in the live-action atla series. From what I've heard, Zuko’s actor is significantly older than Katara’s actress. Everytime someone brings up Zutara during interviews, it's very clear that both actors are uncomfortable with it. In my opinion, the shippers should leave the kids alone and stick to creating their own content. And personally, I think that's the real problem with the ZK fandom. They think that the writers of atla, and now natla, owe them their ship being canon. Ship what you want but no writer is obligated to write anything exactly the way you want it, and nothing else.

Do you think real-life implications have ever stopped Zutara shippers before?

[avatarfandompolice]

Casual reminder that learning new information you don’t like about a story is not a retcon by default. You just don’t like it.

[avatarfandompolice]

Katara not getting a statue DOES warrant criticism sorry this fandom doesn't kiss bryke's sexist asses like you do, ask yourself why she was THE ONLY ONE in the gaang that didn't get one, why she was the only one excluded from getting commemorated for her achievements. Stop caping for those misogynistic creators and their intentional decision to neglect the heroine of their franchise

I don’t see Suki with a statue. Also they’re sexist yet Toph and Korra get statues.

I’m glad the entirety of your dictation of whether a character is respected by the narrative is based on a superficial recreation of their likeness in concrete form. It couldn’t possibly be represented by her being the most respected and powerful healer in the world, because that’s not a real skill because it’s for women. Who is sexist again?

[avatarfandompolice]

calling it now: natla isn’t going to make zutara endgame but they’re going to heavily imply/show that katara and zuko have feelings for each other and katara ultimately ‘chooses’ aang.

i’ve seen what those writers are getting up to on twitter and it’s actually sad how much attention they’re giving zutara stans.

I mean, the Zutara fan base is all they have left. They’ve alienated anyone who actually liked the original show. They’ve pushed away new viewers by it not being a good show in its own right. The only people willing to give it a chance are the ones that are desperate for validation over a ship they were obsessed with when they were in middle school, not realizing that it would make it just as canon to avatar as anything that happened in the M. Night movie.

On one hand, it’d be amazing if they just didn’t give them what they want. On the other hand, it would be hilarious if the only pseudo-canon validation that they had for Zutara was from one of the most butchered adaptations ever released.

[avatarfandompolice]

calling it now: if natla remains canon compliant those same zutara shippers who were praising the show will change their tune. they'll become critical of natla, gaslight everyone into thinking they were never campaigning for zutara to be canon and criticize katara's writing despite the fact it was a pro zk writers room that butchered her character

why do you think I’ve been screenshotting all of their pro-NATLA takes lmao

[avatarfandompolice]

If Katara weren't the greatest healer, she wouldn't be able to keep her granddaughter Jinora alive by the end of Book 2, as well as save the lives of countless people during the conflict between the Southern and Northern Water Tribes.

But nooooooo! Her knowing how to heal makes her useless! Her being referred to as literally the best in the entire world at a coveted skill is detrimental to her character!!!!! Nooooo!!!

[avatarfandompolice]

“I HATE it when LOK calls Katara the greatest healer!” ok then what was she? A bad healer? The second best healer? Did she completely unlearn how to heal people?

[avatarfandompolice]

You focus a lot on Mai and Ty Lee apologizing for betraying Azula, and yet what was Azula’s goal in that scenario? Do you apologize to someone for “betraying” them when they’re literally trying to cause genocide and win a war that will enslave 2/3rds of the world? I don’t think they need to apologize at all. I wouldn’t apologize to someone who tried to kill my friends just because they were sad they got caught afterwards. That’s totally fucking backwards.

No, Azula does not get a pass in that scenario. No one “gets a pass” in the entire show. Zuko gets forgiven and redeemed because he had to suffer immensely and learn from his mistakes while unlearning the propaganda he’d been fed for years. Mai and Ty Lee “get a pass” because they were born into that same system and were just along to help their friend, who in this case blackmailed one of them anyway. Their “betrayal” shows that they recognized the bad things both Azula and their country were doing and took action against it.

It doesn’t matter that Azula “did what she was supposed to do.” She used her free will outside of her assigned tasks to do more than what she was supposed to do. That doesn’t make her irredeemable, but it shows her intent was beyond perpetuating the fire nation tyranny into expanding it. She showed clear goals of surpassing her father, not just being his clone or his minion.

What we have here is a complete disregard for a moral center that has been skewed towards Azula being a tragic figure who was just caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yes, she is a victim of her environment, but so was everyone around her. The ones that escaped that environment don’t need to apologize to her because she couldn’t do it herself.

Azula’s healing process will involve her apologizing directly to other people and not the other way around, but most of you aren’t ready to hear that.

[avatarfandompolice]

Thinking about how Jin fanatics legit think Zuko "deserves" to spend the rest of his life with a literal plot device—

[avatarfandompolice]

I want the show to get cancelled before they even attempt anything romantic with their cardboard cutouts of the OG characters.

I notice there are some mixed feelings on NATLA and it’s portrayal of Kataang in S1 of the show so to the people that are gonna watch S2 what are you guys expecting and how would you like their relationship/romance to develop? Curious to get different perspectives.

[avatarfandompolice]

Hey can we stop giving Avatar OC’s names like Beth, John, Amy, George, etc.? Especially if you’re inserting them into canon?