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hetnixira · 4 months ago

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"Chujin held strong contempt for New Home, both it's design and the politics that went on within it, according to Ceroba, indicating a dissatisfaction for the royal family and their aesthetic(?)."

When does the game say he held contempt towards it? It says he ranted about it:

"New Home..." "Boy could Chujin rant about that place." "It's a long story." "Politics, creatives being creatives... You know."

But a rant doesn't have to be negative. It could have been a positive rant, because the devs say this:

youtube

"There's quite a few spots with this lore of like the family history. like why they're so revered or likewhy they're so wealthy and stuff because it's hinted at that Chujin's father was like a big architect that basically built Home and likeall the other buildings and stuff like with the blueprints and stuff or New Home or whatever"

So Chujin's father built New Home, which is the reason Chujin feels insecure and that he has a lot to live up to. That would align with Chujin's rant being positive about New Home.

Although now that I've written that, a negative rant might work too. The mention of "New Home" in the stream might be a mistake, and the flavour text itself reads:

"Home: Blueprints and Annotations - Ketsukane"

Chujin's father may have only built Home, which is no longer in use. Chujin having a negative opinion on New Home would align with his family's distaste for innovation.

Ceroba Rant

I literally cannot stop thinking about these two, it always comes from thinking of theoreticals where Clover decides to live in the underground rather then sacrificing themselves or confronting Asgore. The immediate question is that of who would they would choose to live with. It seems reasonable to me that there are only three real options, those being Starlo, Ceroba and Martlet (Dalv isn't being considered for a number of reasons but I doubt I have to explain them).

While I think it's inevitable that Clover would spend a lot of time with Starlo in the Wild East I doubt they would choose to live there permanently, or perhaps, their friends would decide against it on their behalf. The crowded, chaotic nature of that place isn't really conducive to the raising of a child, and I bet Starlo and the others would likely understand that. So that really only leaves Martlet and Ceroba, and I always find myself deciding that Martlet would be better for not only Clover but also for Ceroba too, cause that girl has issues, and most of them originate from her relationship with Chujin.

Rewrite

Chujin Stuff

-Chujin is a boss monster and could be incredibly old, his age is never hinted at, other then he is probably older then Ceroba.

-Chujin was seemingly the proactive one when it came to making big decisions like building a house, having more kids, getting married.

-Chujin was dishonest to Ceroba about many important things such as money and Kanako's safety. Chujin never told Ceroba about his performance at work, including what he actually did/built, what awards he won and that he got fired.

-When Chujin was fired from his job he said he couldn't tell Ceroba because he couldn't "let her think less of him." Implying his reputation/image was an important aspect of their personal dynamic.

-Chujin "didn't like" what the Wild East "stood for." likely pertaining to his bigotry towards humanity. Chujin and Starlo (who Ceroba had known for longer) didn't get on at all.

-Martlet states she believes Chujin wants to leave a lasting legacy as well as saying he has "big aspirations".

-Chujin regularly helps his community via building projects, which he regularly credits to himself, and passes on his skills to Martlet, including those related to the construction of robots.

-When Martlet told Chujin she joined the royal guard, he flipped out and angrily expressed his disapproval.

-Chujin held strong contempt for New Home, both it's design and the politics that went on within it, according to Ceroba, indicating a dissatisfaction for the royal family and their aesthetic(?).

Chujin seems to have strong opinions on a lot of stuff in general, none of which his wife seems to emphatically share, instead just becoming jaded by his constant negativity.

-It was Chujin who came up with the idea to militarize the steamworks robotics project.

-Cerobe describes Chujin's father, and his wider family as being traditionalistic and averse to what she calls "innovation", she says a rift grew between the Ketsukane family and the Dreemur family, implying some level of closeness in the past? Although this could be an inflated lie to boost family prestige. One way or the other, the Ketsukane family, with Ceroba perhaps being an exception, clearly consider themselves both equivalent to the royal family and a force of tradition.

Ceroba further describes Chujin as seeing "the benefits of progress, even if it caused friction." and goes on to say that he "never discarded his lineage and how much it meant." She says she considered it "The best of both worlds."

-Ceroba states building the Ketsukane estate was Chujin's dream, and she personally thinks, with the benefit of hindsight, they should have held onto his savings.

-Despite supposedly being friends, Chujin never invited Martlet over, and Martlet wasn't close with Ceroba or Kanako.

-Chujin kept files on every monster he met. (not normal)

-Kanako knew about Axis despite him being kept secret from Ceroba, Chujin also programmed tycoon games for Kanako, which are games based around managing assets and growing ones wealth/power.

-Chujin put a lot of work into his daughters room, and her life in general, it is evident that he loved her dearly.

-The books in Kanako's room, that are described as carrying "similarities to books you've (Clover) recently read." Could imply two things;

Clover and Kanako are around the same age.

Kanako is younger but reads on a higher level then most others her age. This is in line with ceroba saying she was "gifted like her father."

One way or the other this has important implications for Kanako's age.

-Chujin took his daughter with him on trips around the underground, but there is nothing to suggest he took Ceroba around as well. All we do know is that on the one trip we know things about Ceroba wasn't invited.

-Townsfolk in snowdin felt that specifically approaching Chujin was a good idea in response to a human entering the area, this could just be because they are warning everyone or because he has a reputation of sorts.

-Chujin assumes that the human that attacked Dalv would have targeted Kanako next, despite said human not killing Dalv, and Dalv admitting that he attacked the human first. It is then evident that Chujin didn't attempt to defuse the situation or to learn from Dalv what happened, he simply assumed based off of his pre existing prejudices.

Chujin proves this further by demonstrating a complete inability to empathize with the humans situation, and instead blames humankind as a whole as being selfish and vindictive, claiming he will end "this perpetual injustice once and for all."

-Chujin demonstrates both a superiority complex and a saviour complex. He believes he is "the only one who hasn't forgotten or chosen to live in ignorance..." He believed it was his duty and burden to be the one who saves monsterkind from humanity. His saviour complex manifests most strongly in his self destructive experiments, which eventually lead to his death.

-Chujin does use terms of endearment when referring to Ceroba, indicating that he does love/value her, but he still burderns her with his plans. Could also be an example of positive reinforcement related to Ceroba's trauma bond, doubly so given this affection comes at the tail end of Chujin telling Ceroba a large quantity of secrets he had been keeping from her and then proceeding to burden her with finishing his work.

-Chujin would rather Kanako lives her life in peace rather then be used by Ceroba to complete his plan.

-Chujin didn't intend for Axis to kill the integrity human, and seemed at least superficially disturbed by their death, but he still believed their demise was "earned" and he still chose to cover it up and take their soul for experimentation.

Despite the dead child, Chujin considers Axis' potential "Astounding" which paints a clear picture about Axis' purpose.

-Chujin's obsession with leaving a legacy can also be seen in his keeping of tapes labeled "legacy".

Ceroba Stuff

-Ceroba admits that she is amused by the antics of the feitsy five. She admits to envying Starlo's lifestyle, despite her one baggage being the only barrier preventing her from participating in said lifestyle.

-Ceroba no longer feels comfortable in her and Chujin's house.

-Ceroba is incapable of moving past Chujin.

-Ceroba is the same age as the feisty five, who are friends from high school and are constantly referred to as youngsters. Being generous with their age and taking into consideration that Ceroba has a child that is around 10 years old it seems reasonable to assume that she got married around age 20.

-Ceroba was silly.

-Ceroba's present drive is to complete/avenge Chujin's "legacy" which in her mind involves finishing his scientific work. This is notably a weight he puts on her shoulders as he is dying, telling her to finish his research.

-Ceroba is, whether she would admit it or not, immature, this is notable in several instances, including;

Her sending Clover off to deactivate all the steam vents despite a genuine risk that they might injure themself.

She gets notably defensive when she accidently expresses a fear of heights, insulting clover for supposedly giving her a weird look. "God-what's with that look? I am not scared of heights of all things. Grow up."

Her entire robot plan and how she goes about executing it "You're making them cry, Axis!"

"Go on. Just scream if anything makes an attempt on your life."

Completely loses her cool in the steamworks package sorting room and has to be reigned in by Clover, who is like... 11.

Ceroba's inability to explain her way out of her confrontation with starlo could be taken as a sign of emotional immaturity, rather then thinking straight she immediately gets panicked, overwhelmed and runs away without even bringing Clover, who is essential to her plan.

A small quantity of pressure from her child + the guilt of Chujin's burden was all it took for her experiment on Kanako.

-Ceroba has something of an authority complex, immediately demanding leadership over Clover upon entering into the steamworks. Further evidence for this behaviour can be found in her wanting to keep Kanako separate from the Feisty Five as she considered them a bad influence despite Kanako enjoying their company.

She only drops the authoritative schtick when it becomes apparent Clover is more capable than she is, which is when her immaturity starts to become apparent.

-Chujin never told Ceroba about Axis, despite Kanako knowing about him. This betrays a lack of trust in their relationship. Ceroba notably does express confusion as to why Chujin kept Axis a secret from her, rightfully pointing out how she now has no way of mitigating the damage that he might cause.

-Ceroba does not consider herself old.

-Ceroba's mindset is, somewhat understandably, centered around Kanako and Chujin, she rarely thinks for her own needs.

-Similarly, Ceroba's mindset is entirely mired in pessimism.

-Ceroba still lived with her mother when she met Chujin. She admits falling for him quickly

-Ceroba admits she had feelings for starlo back when she was a "naive kid".

-Ceroba admits that she wanted to "grow up" unlike starlo, which is one of the reasons she found Chujin so desirable. She admits her choices in life left her miserable and believes starlo chose better.

Ceroba's desire to be "mature" plays a large role in her character,

-"At first I thought the size was a bit overkill but... well... I think he was insinuating a bigger family."

insinuating

/ɪnˈsɪnjʊeɪtɪŋ/

adjective

1.hinting at something bad in an indirect and unpleasant way."dirty, insinuating laughter"

2.using subtle manipulation to manoeuvre oneself into a favourable position

Ceroba admits that she believes Chujin wanted a bigger family, her proof for this comes from the size of the house he built for them. This is concerning because Ceroba speaks as if she is guessing about what Chujin wanted, implying it wasn't something they talked about, and given that Chujin built the house in the way that he did regardless of that lack of discussion, it implies that he didn't really see his wife's input as necessary with regards to having more children. He seemingly considered it his decision to make, or at least, he expected that Ceroba would definitely agree with his decision. Considering the age at which Ceroba likely had Kanako, this paints their relationship in a particularly manipulative light.

-Ceroba comes to the conclusion that Chujin lied about being fired because she assumes he felt "gutted" hearing Asgore chastise him, when in reality it is because Chujin wanted to ensure Ceroba's opinion of him wasn't worsened.

-Ceroba adopts Chujin's biases only when they become personal, it is suggested that she never really cares for the royal family, but she only adopts a political anti royal stance, similar to the one Chujin and his family took after learning that asgore fired Chujin.

Similarly, Ceroba only adopts an anti human bias similar to the one Chujin held if the player follows a genocide route, otherwise she is seemingly indifferent to Clover, even seeing fit to warn them against confronting Asgore on a neutral route.

-Ceroba admits she knew Chujin kept a lot of secrets from her. But she also admits she wishes he was more transparent with her. She believes that she could have done more to help him if she knew and in this way, she blames herself for Chujin's failure to tell the truth.

Despite this she still clings to Chujins way of life as something to be looked up to and admired "Look to the present and plan for the future. That's what Chujin did, and that's what I must do."

-Martlet describes Kanako as sharing her mother's independence.

-Ceroba is tunnel visioned by Chujins plan, she can't see any good way to make things better without achieving his end goal, this is not because her life would be improved by it but instead because she held Chujin in such high regard that she doesn't know what else to do.

She is obsessed with fulfilling what Chujin touted as his "legacy", even being willing to throw her life away to achieve it.

She claims that only she knew the real Chujin whilst also admitting he kept copious amounts of secrets from her. She displays symptoms of traumatic bonding, decrying anyone's criticism of Chujin's actions or plans as "not knowing the real Chujin." Her self destructive behaviour that she carries out in his memory is another concerning symptom.

Ceroba and Chujin's relationship displays the two important factors that enable a traumatic bond to form, notably, a power imbalance, with Ceroba looking up to and idolizing Chujin, as well as, in the first chunk of their relationship, relying on him for money and housing, and intermittent reinforcement of the trauma bond, with Chujin constantly lying to Ceroba and depriving her of autonomy whilst also giving her superficial gifts such as their new house, and showing her kindness and geniality to ensure she didn't grow resentful of his manipulative behaviour.

Ceroba acknowledges there is an issue with her behaviour, she states she knows "how far gone (she is)."

-"I am a hypocrite. A liar. Sure. But at least I... With Chujin's guidance, can save countless monster lives."

-Ceroba states that Asgore is a coward because he "didn't believe in my husband at all."

-"Truthfully, I have nothing left in life, so I've made peace with throwing it away." Ceroba believes she can not live a proper life without Chujin.

-Chujin- "I never was afraid of it all my life but now that it's so close..."

Ceroba-"No... Shut up. Stop it. Say it like it is or don't say anything. I can't do this. Not now.

Chujin- "Im sorry. There is something I must tell you."

This exchange sounds like Chujin attempting to guilt trip Ceroba into a position where he would be more confident that she would do what he wants, but she shuts him down presumably because of how exhausted, emotionally or otherwise, they both are.

-Ceroba never even knew about the basement in her own home.

-Chujin says Ceroba agreeing to carry on his work is a moment that "matters a lot to me." Perhaps indicating that it's what he was attempting to guilt her into doing earlier on.

-Even at the end of her fight with Clover, Ceroba still blames herself for Chujin's death.

#Youtube

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