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jostenneil · 2 years
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talia,
otherwise known as the daughter of the demon, is the daughter of batman’s long-time immortal foe, ra’s al ghul. she was introduced in detective comics #411 by dennis o’neil, where she candidly unmasked batman to tend to his wounds after they were captured by doctor darrk. the relationship that developed between them in the following decades was complicated, with talia caught between her love for bruce and her loyalty to ra’s. over time, she forged an identity for herself that rendered her one of the most nuanced members of the batman mythos until her character re-vamp by grant morrison in batman & son.
this list covers a comprehensive, chronological, in-continuity timeline of her character prior to its assassination. elseworld’s titles have been ignored, as have other media such as shows, films, video games, etc. the goal of this list is to give a cohesive account of talia’s pre-morrison character arc. not every single appearance is included here due to instances of mischaracterization (see the end of this post), but this nonetheless covers almost all of the bases.
also, thank you so much to @harunosakuras​ for making the above banner! you can check out her account for more stellar comic edits 😊
introduction (1971-1980) 🗡️
most of these issues have been compiled into tales of the demon, with the exception of batman #257, black lightning: year one #3-4, and the brave and the bold #159.
detective comics #411
batman 232, 235, 240, 243-44, 257
black lightning: year one #3-4 — i think these issues are a better re-interpretation of black lightning’s origins in terms of their talia characterization than black lightning (1977) #2.
dc special series #15 — there’s some racist writing, namely of ra’s drugging bruce and wedding him to talia under preconceived notions regarding marriage in eastern cultures, but the marriage is rendered moot within the issue and treated as a one-note plot point.
detective comics #485
the brave and the bold #159
detective comics #490
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jostenneil · 2 years
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hi! can you please explain ra's perspective on that quote of his, "children eat your heart. it is a most sublime way to die."
i think in perspective of that arc it’s about what talia separating from him really entails on a parental level. if we notice in future arcs ra’s never actually pursues talia after she breaks away from him. what convinces her to join lex corp is lex staging an attack on her by her father when ra’s actually has no involvement in it. when dick has trouble being adopted by bruce it’s bc of trouble ra’s creates in revenge for being separated from his daughter, but he doesn’t take out the anger on talia herself. the cd talia gives lex with all of ra’s dirt on people around the globe is something he assumably gives her willingly in exchange for the fact that she saved his life. he’s scorned certainly by her separation, but i think the above statement also feels emblematic of pride bc he recognizes she’s capable of being powerful in her own right now, to where she can stand apart as another equal to him. that’s why the death would be sublime. bc she would have proved herself even if she had to metaphorically cannibalize him in the process (and it’s why i wish we actually ever saw a reaction from him to how she took down lex corp bc it would certainly be interesting in light of this quote)
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jostenneil · 2 years
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moving
okay i’ve followed everyone i need to from my new account (and many of you were already there lol some of us have known each other for quite a while) so if you see a dull pink icon with a blonde in your notifications that’s me 
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jostenneil · 2 years
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spectre hal
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jostenneil · 2 years
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y i k e s
DCU: Decisions #2
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jostenneil · 2 years
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Mary Oliver, from Worm Moon in “Twelve Moons”
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jostenneil · 2 years
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jostenneil · 2 years
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“Tim is in the hospital,” they said.
(Turns out if you leave a teenager in charge of a group of teenagers, that’s still just an unsupervised group of teenagers.)
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jostenneil · 2 years
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I’m doing an experiment, which batcharacter do you think was narrating this panel?
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[Image description: “…But as the truth sank in, I felt a rage rowing so great inside me – “– That it felt like I was just a part of the anger, instead of it being part of me.”
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jostenneil · 2 years
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whats a comic opinion that makes ppl jump y’all like this
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jostenneil · 2 years
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I’m reading an article on Karen Berger’s decision to leave vertigo in 2013 and suddenly a lot of things make sense
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jostenneil · 2 years
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Thinking about how tragedies only work when the characters are robbed of choice. It was always going to turn out this way. This was always going to happen. She's been dead since the beginning. You have already done all of this and you will do it again. He's a brave man, but deep down, he'd rather be taming horses.
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jostenneil · 2 years
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Aside from the tragedy aspect, who don't you want Talia and Bruce to be canon in the long term? I'm not criticizing you I'm genuinely curious
it's a combination of a few things. there's the aspect of talia going through successively compounded trauma over the course of a near decade and her needing time and space to heal from that away from the people who have caused it. but i think there's also the fact that the scope for the kind of work she can do expands in a way that restricting her to only acting in line with bruce feels like it wouldn't allow her to exist as anything more than an extension of him despite the fact that she's shown herself capable of being more. lex corp era just. . . opens up so many opportunities for her to do work where bruce doesn't even have to be involved and where she can focus on initiatives that she believes are important, particularly ones concerned with environmentalism. i've also mentioned before how lex corp illustrates that the kind of work required to take down an ugly, capitalist behemoth from the inside is something only she can do, as opposed to bruce or clark. she's ready to insert herself into something truly awful just so she can dismantle it at its roots, bc she has a lived experience with it. that kind of long term strategy and espionage is something that deserves more expansion and that certainly could be capitalized on within gotham, but i don't know why she would particularly restrict herself to a city where her only connection is with someone she can't call entirely reliable, esp when she's already established herself in metropolis. i feel like people forget that one issue during where she calls metropolis her city. it's clear that in the time she spends heading lex corp she begins to grow an attachment bc she knows she can exact positive change there. personally i wouldn't want to take that away. and like ig you could reason that yknow there are couples like lois and clark who are always away on the most bizarre assignments but they come back to each other at the end of the day, but lois and clark also share a job at the daily planet. wally and linda both live in keystone city bc they either have family there or they have jobs there. arthur and mera are both dedicated to atlantis. etc etc. i can see talia working with bruce again bc they share common goals and ideals about the world, and yknow, maybe there will be times where they can pool their resources. there's obv the whole matter of co-parenting damian. but i'm not particularly interested in talia uprooting the life she tries to make for herself in metropolis just so she can be with bruce. it feels like a character regression when so much of her character arc is about her recognizing that always relying on bruce isn't sustainable and that she needs to look out for and prioritize herself bc she deserves it
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jostenneil · 2 years
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MOMMY! 
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jostenneil · 2 years
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i think this is also why people shipping hal with barry or ollie is so bizarre to me bc it’s like. very clear they’re like older brothers who are looking out for him and who are already set in their own lives in a way that hal has almost never been. they sympathize with him bc they understand what it’s like to feel that untethered and uncertain and fearful about your own future 
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jostenneil · 2 years
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Flash Fact: silver/bronze age Hal is younger than Oliver AND Barry.
Ignoring how confusing are the characters age in comics, at least we can find out who is older and who is younger.
During their road trip, Ollie is supposed to be in his mid 30s while Hal was 23-24 (Kyle said that Hal started as a GL being not much older than him and the road trip is during Hal's first years as a JL and Kyle was like 21-22 when he became a GL) Also, it was said that Hal's hair got gray "too early" (indicating he was kinda young even that time) and during Justice League International, it was said that Hal was in his late 20s (maybe 28) So when Hal is supposed to be 28, Ollie is supposed to be in his 40s according (exactly 43) according to The Longbow Hunters.
And about Barry: He became Flash when he was 24 (according to Secret Origins 1986 and in his comics was established he started in his 20s), he was Flash before Hal became GL. Barry died at 34 (it was supposed that Barry was Flash for 10 years) at least, but Hal was 28 during that time.
So Hal maybe it's the younger Justice League's original member. Obviously he was in his 20s during the silver age and bronze age, and when he became Parallax, he could be in his mid 30s (he's supposed to be 10 years older than Kyle) Also, it makes sense that Hal is younger bc he was always portrayed as such and Ollie treated him like that tho.
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jostenneil · 2 years
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I crumble completely when you cry okay alex turner empath moment
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