mintharabaenrelore

[mintharabaenrelore]

Working on a post about drow fashion (one of my favorite subjects) but in the meantime, I had A Thought. Well, two thoughts.

If all of the BG3 companions fought to the death, who would win lore-wise? Who would win gameplay-wise?

Prior to the events of BG3, how powerful were the companions? Who would you consider the most powerful, lore-wise, aside from Gale, because as the Chosen of Mystra, he was on a whole other tier.

Any thoughts?

[mintharabaenrelore]

Working on a lore post I swear

But a thought popped into my head.

I heard they're making a BG3 show on Netflix, which may or may not be true, I'm not sure. But if I were directing a live-action BG3 show, you know who I would cast as Minthara?

Claire Foy.

To me, their faces look similar, but it's not just that; Claire has this very regal, self-contained energy with underlying sarcastic humor. I feel like that would make her a very good Minthara.

[mintharabaenrelore]

And here it is, Minthara Lovers. As of May 14, 2025, Hotfix 31, Larian has stated they "Removed some defunct dialogue that mistakenly made it into Minthara's Speak with Dead dialogue in Patch 8."

I think this change is just fine, for a few reasons.

She never mentions the child anywhere else. It makes sense for her not to have one.

If you are fond of the Momthara idea, you can always imagine (rather conceivably, considering the amount of lovers she has had- no judgement here, of course) that she *had* a child at some point.

She still says "Destined to be... matron mother... House Baenre." That's an ENORMOUS detail, because guess who the current matron mother is? Sos'Umptu Baenre. If Minthara is destined to be matron mother, she must be Sos'Umptu's daughter. We lost Momthara but got Minthara's mom confirmed! We have Mom'Umptu! (Which isn't CONFIRMED confirmed, of course, as Minthara may just be saying she wants to be matron and believes it is her right... but I truly think this was meant to say Minthara is the Baenre heir.)

I wish they had left the "Murdering Orin" part in and just cut the "raising my daughter" part, though.

Thank you to @mikuchan for making that post!

*Added note in response to the wonderful @w-low: Minthara was in the Absoute's cult for 9ish months or less because she never met the Dark Urge. So it is most likely she was there during the Menzoberranzan civil war and knows Sos'Umptu is now Matron Mother. Furthermore, in the epilogue, if Minthara leaves for Menzoberranzan, she makes it quite clear her mother is still alive, so I don't think it can be Quenthel.

Minthara's hotfix Act 2 Speak With Dead lines are nothing new, they've just trimmed the audio so that she no longer references her child. Here are all of her SWD responses currently.

Transcription & comparison below the cut.

Who were you before the Absolute claimed you?

Destined to be...matron mother...House Baenre...

Why did you abandon Lolth?

For the Absolute's lie...

What were your ambitions before you died?

Current/hotfixed answer: To find a home...

Previous answer: To find a home...for myself...and my child...

Where are you from?

Menzoberranzan...

How do you want to be remembered?

The commander I was...not the slave...I became...

They have entirely cut the question 'Have you left anything unsaid or undone?' to which Minthara previously responded 'Murdering Orin...raising my daughter...'

[mintharabaenrelore]

I saw online that the Speak With Dead dialogue about Minthara having a daughter has been confirmed to be a bug and removed in a recent update, but I have only seen this once and I am *not at all sure*, so don't take this as fact just yet!

Anybody who has a save at Moonrise Towers, do you think you could check and let the Minthara community know? 💜

NEW: @tim1234 checked after having installed the new Hotfix and it is still there! Momthara appreciators rejoice!

[mintharabaenrelore]

Hello, Minthara lovers!

I'm sorry I haven't been posting, near-death experience

I will get back to posting as soon as I can

Anyways: What do we think of that new Speak to Dead dialogue Minthara has as of Patch 8 about her daughter?

What were your ambitions before you died?

To find a home... for myself... and my child

Have you left anything unsaid or undone?

Murdering Orin... raising my daughter...

Dead Minthara reveals she has a daughter | Baldur's Gate 3 (Video link for anyone who wants it)

[mintharabaenrelore]

GUYS GUYS GUYS MINTHARA HAS A KID

OH MY GOD

BIGGEST NEWS EVER

Also, sorry I haven't posted in a while. I love you guys! I'll get back to it, but I've been focusing on just fiction writing. And a near-death experience- I had a bad reaction to some anxiety medication, so I'm still a little shaken-up. (Anxiety-ified by anxiety medication.)

Minthara having a daughter is confirmed.

I saw @alicelufenia's commentary on the patch notes and was also interested in Minthara's updated Act 2 Speak with Dead dialogue, so pulled up a save from right before then.

Transcript below the cut.

What were your ambitions before you died?

Minthara: To find a home... for myself... and my child...

Have you left anything unsaid or undone?

Minthara: Murdering Orin... raising my daughter...

[mintharabaenrelore]

hello! i have a dark urge i ship with minthara who's a drow wizard and i'm leaning towards him initially being from menzoberranzan so i've been trying to find more info on the magic school in menzoberranzan (sorcerere?) can you recommend any specific lore/anyone who knows more? the wiki is sadly pretty sparse on details

Sorcere is fascinating. The Forgotten Realms wiki is a great place to start the research process, but as you said, it's rather sparse.

For general drow lore, I would always recommend the wonderful @lunastrophe, but for specific information about Sorcere...

The "War of the Spider Queen" Book 1, "Dissolution" by Richard Lee Bryers centers around (among others) Pharaun Mizzrym, who is a Master of Sorcere. Gromph, the Archmage of Menzoberranzan, shows up as well. It's been a while since I last read it, but it may have some information about Sorcere. "Daughter of the Drow" has the protaganist Liriel Baenre, daughter of Gromph, and although she ends up going to Arach-Tinilith, there might be some info there.

"Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue" is a D&D book centered around Menzoberranzan. Pages 56-57 are about Tier Breche, and Page 62-63 are about Sorcere.

I took a look at the references for the Forgotten Realms wiki and "Rite of Blood" by Elaine Cunnigham is cited, as well as books in the "War of the Spider Queen" series.

A few other books that may be helpful are: "Out of the Abyss" and "A Reader's Guide to R.A. Salvatore's the Legend of Drizzt." Sadly, I haven't managed to get my hands on either of those, so I can't be sure.

Here's some specific lore quoted directly from "Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue":

"Each of the schools has different styles of teaching. Sorcere relies on a mentor structure." "The sculpted stalagmite tower of Sorcere rises near the western wall of Tier Breche. The lower floors are lecture halls, laboratories, and libraries. Higher in the tower are the sanctums of the masters of Sorcere. The rooms and passages of the tower are often veiled, distorted, hidden, or altered by the wizards. Drow (mostly males) who show a talent or inclination for magic are identified at a young age and groomed for Sorcere. At the age of twenty, would-be wizards begin a five-year apprenticeship with an older wizard to learn the basics of spellcraft. At twenty-five, they begin a course of study in Sorcere that lasts thirty years. The last year of their training is spent in Melee-Magthere and Arach-Tinilith, learning the ways of those institutions and the proper place of males in Menzoberranyr society- under the heels of the priestesses of Lolth. Sorcere is supervised by the matron mistresses of Arach-Tinilith to ensure that the wizards do not defy the rule of Lolth. The masters of Sorcere have orders to watch their students closely, and most realize that they too are being watched by the mistresses of Arach-Tinilith. The masters of Sorcere are a mysterious, reclusive group of wizards with an awesome reputation. They have few ranks and titles, but many differences in influence, from positions such as teaching masters at the Academy to the student aspirants (house wizards-in-training) to the mighty mage lords. The mage lords are the most powerful male mages active in the city. They are tough, twisted survivors who have risen to approach human archmages in ability, while overcoming far greater obstacles. The Archmage is the head of Sorcere and the only one of its masters with a high public profile. His role is to advise and serve the Ruling Council. He also keeps time in the city by casting the spells that light up Narbondel (page 81). The Archmage is almost always a wizard of House Baenre, who uses its influence to place on of its own in the high seat."

In this book, there are descriptions of House Wizard and Master of Sorcere, which you may find useful:

HOUSE WIZARD "You have trained at Sorcere and obtained the most powerful position available to a male noble- house wizard. Within your house, you hold the highest station a male drow can hope to achieve. The other males look upon you with envy, and the priestesses must treat you with a modicum of respect. You are responsible for all arcane matters in your house. You create enchanted wards, craft magic items, and tutor the younger drow in the ways of the arcane. These chores fill your days since the matron mother always wants mor magic items, more powerful wards, and more wizard apprentices. You walk a fine line for survival. Do poorly, and your matron mother will deem you expendable. Do too well, and the matron mother will consider you an ambitious threat. Matron mothers prefer house wizards to be their own sons to ensure loyalty and to ensure control over the sometimes stubbornly independent house wizards. Being a house wizard comes with many risks, because you will always be embroiled in the politics of the city. Rival houses will strike at you first, since your presence on the battlefield can change the course of a fight. Even away from the battlefield, your magic can shape the power of your house. For these reasons, you have to be constantly alert for assassination attempts." "Characteristics: Jealous, resourceful, hateful prerequisites: Drow (one of either gender can become a wizard in Menzoberranzan, but almost all house wizards are male); graduate of Sorcere"

MASTER OF SORCERE "After decades of study, you have finally reached the rank of master of Sorcere. You are one of the most powerful arcane casters in the city. The magical might you wield can devastate scores of enemies. Your ingenuity and magic talent make possible many of the luxuries found among the drow. As a master, you have students and set duties within Sorcere, but beyond these interactions, you are likely a recluse, dwelling in the spell-guarded tower of Sorcere. You have orders from your matron mother to watch your students and fellow wizards for weaknesses that can be exploited. You would be a fool to assume that you are not also being watched. You have developed the habit of concealing what you're really doing from other wizards and from the scrying spells of the matron mother. You are nominally under the authority of the mistresses of Arach-Tinilith, but your command of magic and your position in Sorcere has finally put you beyond the direct reach of the priestesses. However, the other masters present a broad spectrum of eccentric and nasty personalities , and Sorcere has its own intrigues, cabals, and betrayals." "Characteristics: Cold, devious, calculating. Prerequisites: Drow (one of either gender can become a wizard in Menzoberranzan, but almost all masters of Sorcere are male); graduate of Sorcere"

Some Forgotten Realms articles to check out if you'd like:

Menzoberranzan

Sorcere

Tier Breche

Drow

Gromph Baenre

Pharaun Mizzrym

If all else fails, you could try to contact an EXPERT-expert, i.e. R.A. Salvatore or Ed Greenwood.

I hope this helps! 🕷️

[mintharabaenrelore]

I must stop tormenting you all with polls, but I'm indecisive.

As an apology for yet another poll, here's a fun fact (or at least, an I'm-90-percent-sure-of-this theory): the characters that dragged Minthara away in Moonrise Towers were Zealot Munish and Zealot Rylveth. The garden analysis is on its way!

[mintharabaenrelore]

I'm enjoying writing about and researching Minthara, so I've been pondering having another lore account for a different character. I'm not *sure* yet, but if I were to do so, who would you want it to be centered around?

(This does not mean I'll stop posting about Minthara; she's my favorite character, after all.)

You might be wondering why I didn't include Astarion, Jaheira or Minsc.

Astarion: I love him, but 1. the age shown on his gravestone conflicts with his race, which would make timelines... a struggle and 2. the majority of what we know about his past is what he endured under Cazador's control, and I'm not sure I want to write about that.

Minsc & Jaheira: Fun characters, but we witnessed much of their pasts in BG2.

[mintharabaenrelore]

I'm working on a post about Minthara's garden, but in the meantime, here's some new Orin dialogue I found regarding Minthara. It's triggered when you say "She's a liability" after Orin kidnaps her. I'm not quite sure how to interpret this one.

"Yes, yes, such violence to be found in that one. Her blood boils hot and bitter, longing for release. But not yet."

[mintharabaenrelore]

Does Minthara have anything new in Patch 8 so far? Any new lore for me to snack on?

[mintharabaenrelore]

A question for you all that I will make a post on soon: as we know, the tadpole "nerfed" all the companions. (Wyll and Karlach discuss this in banter.) It weakened them significantly. Considering that when you meet Minthara at the goblin camp she is a LVL 6 paladin, what level do you think she was in Menzoberranzan?

[mintharabaenrelore]

Here's my final opinion on the identity of Minthara's mother:

I think it's intended to be Sos'Umptu. Zel'therra makes a lot of sense, but the timelines work for either, and Minthara's lines suggest Sos'Umptu. Example:

"[...] If the world were to end, I think my mother would survive to reign over the ruins."

(And some of her lines in a romanced epilogue, where she refers to her House as her mother's.)

In the past, I've used some of these lines as arguments AGAINST Sos'Umtpu, as I thought she wasn't particularly ambitious. That was a misinterpretation of her character on my part!

A few minor things (Sos'Umptu has never mentioned having children, Minthara says her mother has gone on grand tours of the surface, etc.) don't make sense, but I truly think Larian meant for Minthara to be the only daughter of a Matron Mother, and the heir of House Baenre.

Other things (like her having led such a well-trained group to Moonrise Towers, and having hosted parties) suggest that she has a very high status within her House, as well.

Of course, I could be wrong! But I quite like this theory, as Sos is my second favorite drow character. (Minthara is the first, of course!)

[mintharabaenrelore]

Here's a fanfic idea I want someone or other to write:

WHAT IF all the Origin characters died aboard the Nautiloid, soon after it crashed, etc. and Minthara's goblins took the Astral Prism from Shadowheart's corpse, brought it to Minthara, and the Emperor freed her from the Absolute's control?

Imagine her, Gut, Ragzlin, Nere, Kar'niss, maybe even Z'rell running around trying to take down the Absolute cult; imagine that weird little group of evildoers accidentally doing good. That's the sort of thing I want to read.

(Sigh... if only Minthy had been an origin character...)

[mintharabaenrelore]

A little thing just occured to me.

"The members of House Vandree were very interested in Surface affairs and frequently collected trophies from the Surface, from leaves to human skulls."- Forgotten Realms Wiki

I wonder if Minthara, by decorating her tent in camp with skulls, is remembering her Vandree lover?

[mintharabaenrelore]

I 100% should know this, but I've confused myself; do noble drow females go to Arach-Tinilith at 25 years old or at 40? I'm fairly certain that prior to 1361 it was 40, but afterwards it was 25, followed by 50 years of study. Is this right?

[mintharabaenrelore]

I'm working on a Minthara fanfic on Archive of Our Own, "Dead Men's Thrones" by LiveLaughLolth.

It's not perfect, but I'm having fun with it. For me, it's a way to intimately explore the customs and culture of Menzoberranzan, the members of House Baenre, and most of all, Minthara as a person.

It's intended to be close to Minthara's life. I referenced the timeline I made a lot, but it's still mostly guesswork.

I thought some of you might enjoy it, but please, feel absolutely no pressure to check it out. If you're here for the research and the essays, that's just fine! 💜

Which reminds me, with stories and theories alike, you all have given me so many new perspectives and ideas! People like @w-low, @lutethebodies, @spiderwarden, @trappedinafantasy37, @majorasnightmare and @arach-tinilith especially. Big shout-out to @lunastrophe for answering so many of my questions and inspiring me to make a lore-centric blog in the first place!

I'm looking forward to spend 2025 pondering Minthara with everyone. 🕷️