scliffe

[scliffe]

I sort of interpreted FOL differently; the way Doll’s grief over Snake’s death won over her resentment towards the Phantomhives is such a humane behavior; she’s overcome with emotions. It’s such a huge improvement from Agares; who in the Weston arc seems to be Undertaker’s best creation at the time. To me; this shows that the bizarre dolls are no longer truly “heartless” beings; and they may continue to evolve until they truly think and feel like living human beings.

Assuming that Undertaker is constantly experimenting with other dolls in order to bring R!Ciel back to life entirely, if Doll can have “human” emotions, the same must hold true for R!Ciel. Undertaker deliberately carried R!Ciel around to observe his brother; and this seems to be the key on unlocking R!Ciel’s “yearning”—basically my theory is R!Ciel then evolved from being a mindless zombie into having a mind of his own due to his yearning to be with his brother. I have no real opinion on whether any romantic feelings are involved; but I do desperately want the twins to still love each other deep down.

Now; as for how the lack of soul actually affects them—I’m also not sure which direction Yana will be going. I understand the idea that the “soul” is what makes a human truly “human”; but I also think it will be more interesting if it turns out that there is very little difference between these soulless beings and living humans. Sebastian himself is a soulless being, and there are times where we as readers are left to ponder on how he thinks and feels—but people are way more willing to romanticize Sebastian in comparison to R!Ciel and the bizarre dolls….

Either way; perhaps we’ll receive some answers in the Brighton arc, and I’m sure that whichever route Yana decides will be the best. Part of me hopes that she can leave that bit a little open-ended so we’ll never be able to truly know for sure; but maybe that’s just my fear of commitment speaking….

Debated whether to talk about this or not but some time ago I read this post regarding the Real Ciel Mastermind Theory/RCMT; [thank you to the person who sent me the link!] and as much as I appreciate the details to the theory I have to say that… I hope it’s not true;;; mainly because it doesn’t appeal to me emotionally.

Personally, I think it would be more interesting if our Ciel is forced to battle the twin brother that he loved—and still loves even now—instead of a yandere twin brother who had betrayed him from the start. The one he’s fighting with currently seems no better than an unfeeling zombie—a lifeless thing wearing the same face and having the same memories and maybe some desires but not the same feelings—but I wish to see perhaps some emotional turmoil for our Ciel to go through with re-killing his brother; I think it would be interesting!

Of course; not that our Ciel ever has any real choice since the start—R!Ciel requires the sacrifices of countless lives in order to sustain his; he is dead, he will eventually die again and there is no point in delaying the inevitable—Ciel knows what he must do as the Queen’s watchdog and as a Phantomhive, but I want it to be somewhat—at least a little—difficult and melancholic for him to pull the trigger anyway.

R!Ciel being the mastermind of the Phantomhive massacre would of course carry a different kind of pain and anguish for our Ciel, but the dilemma it presents would only be a repetition of the Red Butler arc—Ciel having to kill or bring to justice an evil family member. Instead, it removes the moral greyness of Ciel stealing his brother’s identity—because his brother had already betrayed him first and never deserved the title of the heir anyway. It also feels a little cliche to me—the underdog youngest son turns out to be the better heir while the star eldest child turns out to be a disappointment.

For my part; I tend to think that R!Ciel is often judged way more harshly by the readers in comparison to our Ciel or even Sebastian; especially in regard to his outright hostility towards Sebastian—which I honestly think makes perfect sense since Sebastian… ate him and played doll with his corpse in front of his traumatized little twin brother?

And I understand that the Bizarre Dolls are soulless since they could be revived even after their souls were collected by a grim reaper or eaten by a demon; but I still also sort of hope that part of R!Ciel’s “feelings” for his twin brother would still remain in him after all.

I love my little twins; I am terribly excited for their confrontation and showdown—and I don’t wish for it to be quite as black-and-white as Ciel killing the “evil mastermind” who caused the death of his whole family; I hope to see Ciel kills his beloved brother; and we know that Ciel blamed himself for Sebastian taking his brother’s soul back then—but this time he will be directly responsible for R!Ciel’s second death. So I wish that Yana will instead, put emphasis on how close they used to be and how deeply they loved each other—as well as how unfair it was that their innocence were ripped apart in such a brutal way. I want neither of them to be responsible for what befell themselves.

[scliffe]

I love the ending for the new anime season very much—it’s sweet and beautiful; and also terribly fitting for the Green Witch Arc.

Ciel’s mental state is constantly represented by the clothes he’s wearing; during his mental escape in GWA, he was wearing these clothes—the debut costume—pristine clean and unadulterated right before he was ripped out of them and defiled. Staying in these clothes forever means denying what he went through—time forever frozen in that moment before he fell from grace—it means denying his past and what has happened to him.

When he wears these; he turns almost childlike and cowardly, clinging to “his brother”, crying and sulking in bed, being terrified of adults, and hating Sebastian—the proof of his sin. But of course he’s unable to remain in escapism forever—and he gets jolted into the cold reality of being in that cage.

In the ending song; he starts the dance in the same clothes he was wearing the night of the ritual—the height of his misery and the night he lost everything he had left. These are the same clothes he is mentally stuck in whenever he gets a PTSD attack—torn, filthy, and miserable; these clothes brought with them the ghosts of his past.

Even the loving family he used to have only serves to make his current situation even more wretched in comparison. He looks at the ghosts of his parents, Madam Red, and Joker, and he slumps down in misery. For a moment he’s lost and adrift in the middle of nothing; missing his anchor. But then he gets up and grabs Sebastian’s hand.

Sebastian pulls him into motion. Ciel still wears these miserable clothes, but he no longer seems lost or haunted by the ghosts of his past. These are the very last clothes he was wearing before he decided to become the Earl of Phantomhive. Whoever our Ciel used to be—the child that he was before he chose to kill himself and took up the name of Ciel Phantomhive—was then “buried” forever in these clothes.

This quiet moment where only the two of them are dancing with wisps of blue represents that moment of transformation—the last moments our Ciel exists as his past self before he dies and the Earl of Phantomhive was reborn. Sebastian holds him as he looks up for the last time and peacefully, with no resistance, closes his eyes.

The frame expands and then we see him dancing with the servants—in the same order that they were found: Finnian, Mei, and Bard. The lighting is warm and luxurious, the servants clap and cheer him on, and he’s wearing gorgeous, expensive clothes—as he always wears when he’s with Sebastian—as the Earl of Phantomhive. This is possibly the cutest footage I’ve ever seen in my life.

And finally; Sebastian holds him up (or more like he climbs Sebastian; which also speaks a lot of their relationship) as he reaches up and grabs the star. This is the role Sebastian has always held in Ciel’s heart—he is his support, his closest, most intimate companion, and perhaps the tool (literally being treated like a ladder) for Ciel to reach his goal; while Ciel also trusts Sebastian not to drop him or let him down.

I don’t think I’ll ever shut up about how Sebastian is the one who pulled Ciel out of that hell—it is my Roman Empire and I will write 999 posts about it. I love how; although Sebastian and Ciel’s relationship may be morally questionable; at the end of the day, Sebastian is still the one who allows Ciel to grow into who he is—to rise and grasp the star with his own hand.

This ending is terribly bittersweet as we watches Ciel’s journey—both his pain, his determination, and the companions he gains and achievement he grasps—as he dances through the waltz.

[scliffe]

Debated whether to talk about this or not but some time ago I read this post regarding the Real Ciel Mastermind Theory/RCMT; [thank you to the person who sent me the link!] and as much as I appreciate the details to the theory I have to say that… I hope it’s not true;;; mainly because it doesn’t appeal to me emotionally.

Personally, I think it would be more interesting if our Ciel is forced to battle the twin brother that he loved—and still loves even now—instead of a yandere twin brother who had betrayed him from the start. The one he’s fighting with currently seems no better than an unfeeling zombie—a lifeless thing wearing the same face and having the same memories and maybe some desires but not the same feelings—but I wish to see perhaps some emotional turmoil for our Ciel to go through with re-killing his brother; I think it would be interesting!

Of course; not that our Ciel ever has any real choice since the start—R!Ciel requires the sacrifices of countless lives in order to sustain his; he is dead, he will eventually die again and there is no point in delaying the inevitable—Ciel knows what he must do as the Queen’s watchdog and as a Phantomhive, but I want it to be somewhat—at least a little—difficult and melancholic for him to pull the trigger anyway.

R!Ciel being the mastermind of the Phantomhive massacre would of course carry a different kind of pain and anguish for our Ciel, but the dilemma it presents would only be a repetition of the Red Butler arc—Ciel having to kill or bring to justice an evil family member. Instead, it removes the moral greyness of Ciel stealing his brother’s identity—because his brother had already betrayed him first and never deserved the title of the heir anyway. It also feels a little cliche to me—the underdog youngest son turns out to be the better heir while the star eldest child turns out to be a disappointment.

For my part; I tend to think that R!Ciel is often judged way more harshly by the readers in comparison to our Ciel or even Sebastian; especially in regard to his outright hostility towards Sebastian—which I honestly think makes perfect sense since Sebastian… ate him and played doll with his corpse in front of his traumatized little twin brother?

And I understand that the Bizarre Dolls are soulless since they could be revived even after their souls were collected by a grim reaper or eaten by a demon; but I still also sort of hope that part of R!Ciel’s “feelings” for his twin brother would still remain in him after all.

I love my little twins; I am terribly excited for their confrontation and showdown—and I don’t wish for it to be quite as black-and-white as Ciel killing the “evil mastermind” who caused the death of his whole family; I hope to see Ciel kills his beloved brother; and we know that Ciel blamed himself for Sebastian taking his brother’s soul back then—but this time he will be directly responsible for R!Ciel’s second death. So I wish that Yana will instead, put emphasis on how close they used to be and how deeply they loved each other—as well as how unfair it was that their innocence were ripped apart in such a brutal way. I want neither of them to be responsible for what befell themselves.

[scliffe]

sebastian and ciel: how the lie became truth

(the illusion of choice and care in sebastian and ciel's dynamic becoming reality)

inspired by @scliffe's post about the romanticisation of sebaciel's relationship

i agree with the way the perception of the fandom is described in the analysis; sebaciel's relationship is romanticised, either romantically or in the found family esque interpretation. neither are completely right or wrong as we are unaware of sebastian's true feelings. there is only one interpretation that i cannot in good conscience accept as a valid reading, "sebastian does not feel any care for ciel and ciel has no choice but to be in this contract with sebastian", this is an interpretation that would only be possible through a surface level, intentionally biased reading. simultaneously, the reading of "sebastian loves ciel (romantically, paternally or otherwise) and ciel loves him back" is also an interpretation that would require a lack of comprehension altogether.

anyway back to the post, there are multiple points which i'd like to draw attention to:

"Sebastian is evil"

is he? it's fascinating how there are shippers, dadbastians and sebastian haters with this reading of sebastian character. in my opinion, sebastian is no more evil than every single one of kuro's characters.

i'm still not finished with my kindness in kuro analysis on sebastian but i'll put part 1 here in case. i am a firm believer than sebastian's character growth has been very much based on kindness. at the end of the red butler arc, sebastian mocks ciel for being 'kind', or rather a 'coward'. sebastian is told he is not kind enough by soma in the circus arc, so he aims to be kinder (though mockingly at first). in the public school arc, he straight up says "they all respect me for my kindness", though sarcastic, he is proud of being kind and well-received. post green witch arc, he also tells ciel that HE should be kind as well, especially to the people around him such as elizabeth, sieglinde and soma. and this time, he's not mocking or being sarcastic/ironic at all.

sebastian simultaneously corrupts ciel by giving him unrivalled power but also aims to humble him. for example in the birthday chapter, he lets francis win against ciel during the hunt so ciel doesn't become too arrogant. throughout the story, sebastian is straight up a figure that brings joy to other people which i personally find ironic.

the anime canon, albeit butchering both characters, is still 'canon', sebastian's curry buns are infused with "kindness" so they can heal people possessed by the angel's curry (ep15). one of the last lines he says in the fondest manner before attempting to consume ciel's soul in ep24 of season 1 is, "as kind as ever, master". and obviously we know that ciel was a kind child, especially in comparison to the phantomhives.

all in all, sebastian is not evil, but he is also not good. however, in my reading, i notice sebastian always prided himself on his aesthetics and at the current, his "kindness".

"he—arguably—did not have much choices other than to agree to the contract [...] the choice is either this [the contract] or death"

firstly, i would like to point out @thaliaarche's post that highlights the multiple opportunities anime ciel had to leave the contract.

he is given the opportunity, even by sebastian himself who kinda dumps him. manga-wise, undertaker seems to want a way for ciel to be freed from the contract so i assume he'll soon have this choice to step out of the contract and abandon revenge... but knowing him, will he really accept that? if the anime was any clue, no, he has made his decision to die on his own terms.

also the paper sourced in thaliaarche's post ('The Victorian Childhood of Manga: Toward a Queer Theory of the Child in Toboso Yana's Kuroshitsuji.') adds a lot to some of the ideas in scliffe's post i do agree with, such as this section:

Likewise, if Ciel was portrayed as an innocent run-off-the-mill ten year old—instead of a smart one, a perceptive one, one who is “mature for his age”; if Ciel was a regular noble instead of the Queen’s watchdog; one who is meant to be the Earl of Phantomhive despite being born as an underdog.

this part of the post reminds me of the section in jones' paper compares ciel to victorian author frances burnett's little lord fauntleroy, a character described as a 'mature little fellow'/'such a little man' (a comfort for his widowed mother) and was the idealised idea of an effeminate little boy, an amalgamation of maturity and innocence. this form of childhood was also later used by burnett for her sara crewe who is a queer(odd), old-fashioned child, with expressions a 12-year-old child shouldn't have (too mature) and a comfort for her young, rich and handsome father. the usage of burnett's child characters as a 'mature' companion for adults likely greatly influenced yana's writing when it came to sebaciel's dynamic. the dynamic was inspired by other romanticised dynamics of the era; clearly this type of dynamic still works as this fandom is currently greatly fascinated by it. it is ciel's maturity and ability to make choices that makes us want to root for both him and sebastian.

more importantly, what choice do any of us have? we all die. ciel's going to die anyway, he made the choice to make a contract and not die yet. but inevitably, he will die. that's the entire point of the manga. we all die and death is a beautiful end. cheating death by bringing the dead back to life is cruel, as it comes to the expense of the living (BCA-now, blood transfusions).

by the way, anime kuro seems to imply the existence of heaven but manga kuro does not. in fact, it is intentionally vague. in anime kuro, ciel is straight up told that he's not seeing the pearly gates. however death is a true end in the manga, which is why undertaker is trying so hard. but ciel is not trying to live forever, he's made the choice to use sebastian to achieve his goals. death will come anyway, sebastian IS ciel's chosen method of death. yes, he will die anyway but he chose to die after fulfilling his goal. the implication that he never had a choice in the first place is something that i personally think this story addresses quite nicely because... none of us have a choice? we all die.

ciel is just dying on his own terms. in fact, he has more choice than most of us ever will.

"see how he treats Ciel so much better compared to Ciel’s fellow humans?"

does he? i mean he straight up bullies him at the start of the manga, lets him get beaten by btec scarface (the ferro family guy), cares more about his schedule than ciel, lets wild snakes attack him and more... even in the green witch arc, he offers the idea of "let's traumatise him back", gets told no then does it anyway.

at the moment, he caresses his injuries, panics if there's even a needle hole in his arm and cares even about ciel's tenants on the phantomhive land.

he even verbally mocks him for being kind and compares it to cowardice, while now he wants him to be kind now and straight up says "how very unkind" when he perceives ciel to be insulting him after he told ciel to be nice (and ciel responded w "stfu ur a demon").

he didn't care before. not about ciel's fellow humans, not even about ciel. but he cares now. even about other people... he straight up calls out scotland yard for only caring about the upper class dying. and while it seems like he's doing it in the "look at how pathetic and classist humans are" kind of way, he also straight up calls abberline 'underline' (intentional) before he tells him that "you only care when the rich die, huh?" which is INSANE??? why so critical!! does it m-m-matter ??!?!? sebastian working class advocate ?!!!

jokes aside, sebastian didnt care at first, he pretended to care as part of his butler aesthetics. at the moment, his care is too much to just be pretend. i mean why else would he try cheering ciel up and showing him that he believes in him?

whether you think they're lovers or in a psychosexual paternal relationship, the fact sebaciel will inevitably have the choice to part (just like they did in the anime) and the fact they developed care towards each other (which they may not have initially had) is something that is very visible through readings of the manga.

this isnt a critique of any post in specific, it's just my personal view on how sebastian's not really 'evil' per se, ciel has made his choice and sebastian didn't always care about ciel. i respect any interpretation but here's mine :)

i made a heinous typing error where i wrote "little victorian author frances burnett's lord fauntleroy" instead of "victorian author frances burnett's little lord fauntleroy" it has since been fixed but if you rb-ed already... im so very sorry.

[scliffe]

Slightly controversial but I think people judge R!Ciel too harshly for being an obsessive older brother—like have you seen our Ciel????

R!Ciel has been exposed to this cuteness everyday of his life since he was born and he was not supposed to be possessive of him? Unrealistic. Just look at Sebastian; and he has only been exposed to our Ciel for 4 years.

People think R!Ciel is suspicious for having that line of: “I don’t need fake brothers.” As if anyone else could ever come close to our Ciel? Of course he doesn’t need fake brothers! Of course he thinks the idea of anyone remotely coming close to becoming his brother’s replacement is offensive! Unlike how our Ciel views himself, R!Ciel never considers his brother as a spare.

R!Ciel throwing a tantrum because he doesn’t want to be an Earl if that means he can’t be with his brother forever? Honestly; the most understandable thing he has ever done.

[scliffe]

This is quite a subjective opinion; but I am endlessly fascinated by how the romanticization (or sentimentalization) of Sebastian and Ciel’s relationship is such a big, important part of Kuroshitsuji—partly due to Sebastian’s own nature as a demon, but also due to Ciel’s character himself.

Sebastian is evil, and he is meant to lure people into damnation. He is the embodiment of a poisonous yet appealing temptation. He speaks sweet, gentle words. He is undeniably physically attractive, and generally, people find him charming. I can go on forever, but you get the gist; all of him is designed to slowly attract and lull people into complacency with him—into not seeing the predatory nature that lurks beneath that gorgeous skin.

This powerful creature, who can kill people with his bare hands, prefers to use sweet promises over threats—finding physical torture less effective than honey; so confident in his ability to understand human desires and tempt any person into the route he designs for them. He presents people with two choices; one of which seems infinitely more attractive than the other—but would certainly lead them to damnation. And it delights him very much when they inevitably chooses the sweeter option. It seems to be essential to the demonic contract that the contractor gets to choose (even if the choice was most likely—almost always—highly uninformed).

Now; if the contractor was an unassuming human who was tempted or fooled by the demon, or if the contractor was someone who’d kill and sacrifice another person on purpose, maybe we would say, “Well, he did that to himself.” Or even, “He deserved that.” But not only did Ciel manage to summon Sebastian by happenstance; he—arguably—did not have much choices other than to agree to the contract; it was either the contract or death at the hands of the cultists.

His consent was highly dubious (not that Sebastian ever cares); he was in a state of emotional distress—unfit to be making choices that would define the rest of his life—not to mention his youth, his vulnerability, and the glaring power imbalance with the predatory adults and demon surrounding him. From that moment on, his soul is forfeit; no matter how many times Ciel states that he is firm on his revenge and that he is doing this for himself—you can always argue that he is only saying this because the choice is either this or death.

Still, instead of highlighting the dubious nature of this agreement, the author shows that despite his young age, he is perceptive enough to read through Sebastian’s lies and see Sebastian’s true nature for what it is, and still “chooses” to have the contract. The author repeatedly, over and over, shows Ciel “choosing” this road for himself, Ciel saying that he has no need for the past and will not look back—and the whole time that Ciel charges unwaveringly into the darkness, Sebastian looks at him and smiles meaningfully.

Since we have no idea what “souls” present in Kuroshitsuji; the concept of what Ciel is actually paying with in order to get his revenge is exceedingly vague—it’s difficult to feel loss over something with an unknown value. This is exacerbated by Ciel’s easy acceptance of his own fate, and the practical logic on how it’s simply fair to pay a servant for his services.

Sebastian, for his part; always revels and delights in how Ciel chooses him. He basks in it, and gloats about it; the dubious nature of Ciel’s agreement forgotten, or frankly does not even seem to compute in Sebastian’s mind. What’s important is that Ciel made a choice; and that choice was Sebastian. We know that Sebastian will eventually kill Ciel, but we may contend that Sebastian is good for him. Sebastian saved Ciel and Ciel consented to having Sebastian. Sebastian gave Ciel the autonomy and independence and protection he desperately needed. And this does not come out of nowhere; as the author too, seems to deliberately romanticize/sentimentalize their relationship—the readers are simply picking up on the context cues.

They are certainly predator and prey; but people may love their appeal as a pair of lovers, like Bonnie and Clyde; or as found family along with the rest of the servants; they are partners-in-crime; soulmates; always understanding each other with just a glance, simply meant to be together, there is no Ciel without Sebastian and vice versa, etc.; it’s all a terribly romantic and sentimental view of their relationship.

The portrayal of Sebastian as a loyal and caring protector (although he is always hiding his hunger and fangs) and Ciel as a brave and pitiable victim resolutely seeking justice (although he arguably never had much choices) are done on purpose to allow their relationship to be romanticized/sentimentalized by the readers who want to root for them. If Sebastian was not portrayed attractively enough; if he wasn’t a handsome, gentle caretaker, who is devotedly loyal to Ciel and protects him from kidnappers and assassins and whatnots (see how he treats Ciel so much better compared to Ciel’s fellow humans?), this romanticization of him will not be possible. Likewise, if Ciel was portrayed as an innocent run-off-the-mill ten year old—instead of a smart one, a perceptive one, one who is “mature for his age”; if Ciel was a regular noble instead of the Queen’s watchdog; one who is meant to be the Earl of Phantomhive despite being born as an underdog (which makes the readers want to root for him and believe him to be capable of besting a demon on the negotiation table)—we will not be reading the contract scene and thinking, “Can he outsmart the demon?” Or even, “Well, certainly this ten year old understands what he is doing.” We would have instead understood the contract to be an exploitation of the child’s vulnerability and circumstances. Instead, Ciel is portrayed as wanting the contract; willing to sacrifice his soul to get his revenge; a fully-consenting party in a mutually beneficial agreement. When Sebastian offers his hand, Ciel consensually places his own hand in Sebastian’s.

What is truly “good” for Ciel becomes a moral dilemma that the readers cannot solve, and Sebastian’s true “feelings” (or whether he has any at all) is never explained. The readers are left to guess and come up with our own theories that will remain unanswered—we insist that Ciel needs and wants Sebastian, that Sebastian cares for Ciel beyond seeing him as food; and the whole thing is so morally dubious, but we are given a lot of incentives to see them in a positive, sentimental light. Every once in a while something may happen that seems to reinforce our beliefs in their relationship, but never fully confirm how they feel towards each other. The occasional “warning bells” reminding us of Sebastian’s nature as a demon are—more often than not—ignored, as the future when the contract ends still seems so far away, and regardless; Ciel is far too dependent on Sebastian to even think of living without him.

[scliffe]

Honestly, I wish people could appreciate Sebastian and Ciel’s relationship even if they don’t ship them romantically. It makes me sad when people hate on Sebastian and say things like how the two of them should be separated and Ciel should be saved from Sebastian. It also makes me sad when people victimize Ciel and gloss over his complicated personality and moral grayness instead of appreciating how well-written his character is. Sebastian and Ciel belong with each other; Sebastian makes Ciel who he is today and vice versa. There is no Ciel without Sebastian and there is no Sebastian without Ciel.

[scliffe]

I know of at least one instance. You know what else happens at dawn?

It's interesting to know that Ciel named Sebastian at the crack of dawn, and yet Sebastian swore his commitment to his name by the moon.

I like to think that he vowed to the moon once his devotion to Ciel was more ingrained, at a later time.

Dedication to one's Master is obligatory, contractual. But it being Sebastian's choice to commit to his role more verily, swearing to the moon, seems to me sentimental at the very least. (I like to think him just a little sentimental when need be. Just a little).

It's nice to think that further along their contract, Sebastian decided on this.

He thought his Master was worth swearing to the moon.

[scliffe]

These are some very interesting points! I have not thought of Ciel possibly attempting to “re-enact” his trauma before; but it certainly is very plausible. If he was constantly “re-enacting”; I would think that his biggest regret that night—the thing that he wants to undo the most—was his brother’s death. This was the “game over” moment; so to speak—not being able to prevent the little girl’s (/r!Ciel’s) death made him lose his sense of control and immediately drove him to a PTSD attack. He lost—and so he immediately “resets the game”; having Sebastian kill everyone present and set everything on fire. And so it all repeats.

Just a personal observation; but Ciel’s trauma triggers that have been shown so far seem to not be sexual at all. When he had to approach Viscount Druitt, or when he was being assaulted by Maurice Cole and his friends, he was still acting out a part and did not seem genuinely afraid—he knew that Sebastian or Greenhill and Edward would come to his rescue. People often comment on how these must have been scary or triggering for him, but honestly I don’t see it. Even when he was straight-up molested by Sullivan (though this was played for laughs) or even when Sebastian, a grown man, stripped him and bathed with him; these did not trigger his trauma either.

Instead; in the Book of Circus, he had the PTSD attack after seeing the doctor kill the child on the altar. In the Green Witch arc, it was Sebastian’s hands—not being naked with him—which reminded him of how he was force fed. He seems to be touch-averse and dislike being touched by strangers in general; and it does not matter whether the touch is sexual in nature or not—he hates it equally. In both attacks, the main source of trauma seems to be the memory of losing his brother—as he kept recalling how Ciel was brutally stabbed, instead of the CSA.

Of course, trauma works differently on different people and it might just be storytelling choices to keep it PG-13, but I think Ciel might have simply been too young to fully understand the sexual abuse that happened to him—or it’s just not the most traumatic event for him in comparison to losing his brother.

Even though he claims to design his revenge for his own sake alone instead of for his brother or his family; Ciel’s death certainly plays a big, major part in his trauma. I think that when you’re committing revenge for deceased loved ones as opposed to for yourself; it can be quite detrimental for your resolve when you start thinking things like “Would my loved ones even want to see me like this? Or would they have preferred to see me live happily?” It would taint the image of the deceased—of course your loved ones should want you to live happily instead of ruining your own life for revenge—which is what happened in GWA with the image of Vincent, Rachel, and Ciel asking him if he was doing it for them and telling him that no one asked him to have revenge. But even if the deceased didn’t want him to have revenge; Ciel has already made up his mind to pay back the people who dared to trample not only on his family but also on himself, so his resolve simply strengthens and instead this gave him more conviction to go against his twin brother in the next arcs.

Sebastian has also teased Ciel about his innocence before—though obviously Ciel knows to be embarrassed from physical display of or closeness with the opposite sex (he’s 13 not 3); his concept of sexual attraction seems to still be rather juvenile.

Additional thought, r!Ciel seems to be used to Undertaker’s touch just as our Ciel is normally used to Sebastian’s touch; but seeing how he reacted violently to Soma touching him, r!Ciel might also be touch-averse just like our Ciel is. Or maybe he’s just secretly jealous that his brother has other friends.

[scliffe]

I wish there is a way for Sebastian to consume Ciel’s soul… but still retain Ciel’s consciousness. So Ciel is part of him now—they’ve (finally) become one entity; but Ciel is still here—he’s not gone; Sebastian can just spawn a separate physical form in the form of Ciel and fills it with Ciel’s consciousness and practically nothing will change from how they used to be except that they’re one now and Ciel is immortalized forever.

[scliffe]

I saw someone misinterpret this post to mean that I’m saying Ciel had no trauma at all from the CSA—that’s not true (and honestly baffles me how you read it this way?); the CSA was definitely part of the cause of his trauma, what I’m saying is that his trauma triggers don’t necessarily have to be sexual at all. I reiterate that when it comes to Ciel being touch-averse, it does not matter whether the touch is sexual in nature or not— he hates it equally. This is something that clearly came from his experience of being abused and dehumanized—including the CSA but also the non-sexual parts of it; like being force-fed, thrown around and physically abused, basically being treated like a cattle and of course; it possibly culminates in watching his twin brother get slaughtered like a livestock. The fact that they are identical—that the man just grabbed whichever twin was the nearest without caring which twin it was—adds to the dehumanization and irrational guilt our Ciel suffers from.

And not everything that is sexual in nature, or constitutes sexual harassment or abuse will necessarily trigger his trauma either. I maintain that his trauma was not triggered with Viscount Druitt nor with Maurice Cole; both of these encounters were planned and he had anticipated how they would possibly react—not that I think he anticipated that Cole would try to sexually assault him (I also… didn’t expect that), but he definitely anticipated a physical altercation (in fact, I think he was counting on Cole to be be violent in retaliation). Saying that he was panicking when he was obviously acting, or that he was dissociating when he was in control the whole time; seems to me like an attempt to make Ciel look more vulnerable than he actually is—just like portraying Vincent as an abusive father or Ciel’s family as a neglectful one. I respectfully disagree with it and think it’s a bad mischaracterization which in this case may instead reduce him to his trauma; viewing his actions and everything he went through as the actions and experiences of a CSA survivor; instead of Ciel Phantomhive.

Just a personal observation; but Ciel’s trauma triggers that have been shown so far seem to not be sexual at all. When he had to approach Viscount Druitt, or when he was being assaulted by Maurice Cole and his friends, he was still acting out a part and did not seem genuinely afraid—he knew that Sebastian or Greenhill and Edward would come to his rescue. People often comment on how these must have been scary or triggering for him, but honestly I don’t see it. Even when he was straight-up molested by Sullivan (though this was played for laughs) or even when Sebastian, a grown man, stripped him and bathed with him; these did not trigger his trauma either.

Instead; in the Book of Circus, he had the PTSD attack after seeing the doctor kill the child on the altar. In the Green Witch arc, it was Sebastian’s hands—not being naked with him—which reminded him of how he was force fed. He seems to be touch-averse and dislike being touched by strangers in general; and it does not matter whether the touch is sexual in nature or not—he hates it equally. In both attacks, the main source of trauma seems to be the memory of losing his brother—as he kept recalling how Ciel was brutally stabbed, instead of the CSA.

Of course, trauma works differently on different people and it might just be storytelling choices to keep it PG-13, but I think Ciel might have simply been too young to fully understand the sexual abuse that happened to him—or it’s just not the most traumatic event for him in comparison to losing his brother.

Even though he claims to design his revenge for his own sake alone instead of for his brother or his family; Ciel’s death certainly plays a big, major part in his trauma. I think that when you’re committing revenge for deceased loved ones as opposed to for yourself; it can be quite detrimental for your resolve when you start thinking things like “Would my loved ones even want to see me like this? Or would they have preferred to see me live happily?” It would taint the image of the deceased—of course your loved ones should want you to live happily instead of ruining your own life for revenge—which is what happened in GWA with the image of Vincent, Rachel, and Ciel asking him if he was doing it for them and telling him that no one asked him to have revenge. But even if the deceased didn’t want him to have revenge; Ciel has already made up his mind to pay back the people who dared to trample not only on his family but also on himself, so his resolve simply strengthens and instead this gave him more conviction to go against his twin brother in the next arcs.

Sebastian has also teased Ciel about his innocence before—though obviously Ciel knows to be embarrassed from physical display of or closeness with the opposite sex (he’s 13 not 3); his concept of sexual attraction seems to still be rather juvenile.

Additional thought, r!Ciel seems to be used to Undertaker’s touch just as our Ciel is normally used to Sebastian’s touch; but seeing how he reacted violently to Soma touching him, r!Ciel might also be touch-averse just like our Ciel is. Or maybe he’s just secretly jealous that his brother has other friends.

[scliffe]

Really adore Ciel’s expression here because one half of him looks horribly angry and pissed while the other half is just in so much pain.

[scliffe]

If (O!)Ciel were to be spirited away by Undertaker again,

If you ask me it’s all his fault for being so small and portable

No law in Victorian England that says only Sebastian can lift Earl Phantomhive with one arm.

I’m actually really curious on what kind of ending people want Kuroshitsuji to have; should Ciel die young? Should it take decades before he achieves his revenge? Would you rather the manga ends with Sebastian eating Ciel, Ciel escaping that fate somehow, or an open ending where the manga ends without ever confirming whether Sebastian gets to have his meal?

I’m personally rather undecided but I love romanticizing Sebastian eating Ciel; so there’s that.

[scliffe]

I lowkey had to digest why the thought of Sebastian’s death is more horrifying to me than Ciel’s death—I suppose it’s because Ciel is basically already on death row anyway while Sebastian is supposed to be immortal; and even then, Ciel’s impending death is really only acceptable to me as he will be eaten by Sebastian after his death. I (heavily) reject the notion that Ciel might die and instead of being eaten he just goes to heaven/equivalent (how scary).

In the end; I suppose that even if either of them must die, I want their death to be related to the other person anyhow. The idea that Sebastian would willingly give up his own life for Ciel (!!!!) is not only extremely romantic but also would definitely establish that he does not merely see Ciel as food—that his role as Ciel’s butler has grown more important than who he was as a demon prior to meeting Ciel—and this makes me equally excited as I am heartbroken.

I love this part you wrote about it:

this literal monster being the most human, loyal, and caring protector Ciel finally had after surviving all of these tragedies with the monstrous humans in his life.

I am one of those people who believe that ultimately your actions matter more than whatever motivations you had.

If Sebastian is going to sacrifice himself for Ciel; I think a permanent death would be more impactful than a temporary one (sorry Sebastian). Alternatively, Sebastian and the audience may be led to believe it was close enough to a permanent death; so close that Sebastian couldn’t have possibly calculated it—close enough that you know it was sincere. Then we get wonderfully surprised by a sudden unexpected reappearance at the end—which ties up nicely to how Sebastian said he would never leave Ciel even if his body is gone.

I’m actually really curious on what kind of ending people want Kuroshitsuji to have; should Ciel die young? Should it take decades before he achieves his revenge? Would you rather the manga ends with Sebastian eating Ciel, Ciel escaping that fate somehow, or an open ending where the manga ends without ever confirming whether Sebastian gets to have his meal?

I’m personally rather undecided but I love romanticizing Sebastian eating Ciel; so there’s that.

[scliffe]

Source

[scliffe]

Both of these are SO GOOD—equally satisfying to me; I also love the idea of Sebastian being filled with regret (even if he might not understand what the feeling was (!!)) but ends up eating Ciel regardless because what other choice do they have? Ciel definitely wants Sebastian to eat him once his revenge is done; because what else would be the purpose of living? He lives on a borrowed time; borrowed name and title; the only thing that truly belongs to him is his revenge and Sebastian.

The second option though; what if somehow the stars aligned and our wildest delusion can come true they deviate from the contract? The contract means Sebastian can claim Ciel’s soul anytime after his revenge is done; that’s too much risk for Ciel. I think it will be hard for Ciel to accept that Sebastian could ever let him live and stay with him without some hidden agenda; he will definitely feel betrayed once Sebastian acts outside of his expectations. It doesn’t even matter whether Sebastian can (or will try to) explain himself or not. Ciel can only trust Sebastian to stick to the contract now because he understands Sebastian wants his soul that badly—what would it mean when Sebastian no longer wants to eat his soul?

Deviating from their contract messes up their power dynamics—they’ll no longer be equal; the only power Ciel had over Sebastian was the contract. If he’s no longer bound to be Ciel’s servant—then he can only be Ciel’s predator. There is no third option for what Sebastian can be. Unless…? (Unless they fuck about it.)

Anyway, it will be interesting to see Ciel learning to coexist with Sebastian without the contract acting as a buffer and stabilizer between them. Though it’s really hard to imagine Kuroshitsuji without the delicious morally-dubious implications of their contract.

I’m actually really curious on what kind of ending people want Kuroshitsuji to have; should Ciel die young? Should it take decades before he achieves his revenge? Would you rather the manga ends with Sebastian eating Ciel, Ciel escaping that fate somehow, or an open ending where the manga ends without ever confirming whether Sebastian gets to have his meal?

I’m personally rather undecided but I love romanticizing Sebastian eating Ciel; so there’s that.

[scliffe]

@eyes-of-wine :

#honestly the only ending l'd be completely satisfied with is if they both died together #bonus points if it's by protecting each other #they're both so enmeshed in each other and their roles that I just don't see a good way of either one of them surviving #without the other after the contract #I mean I guess season 2 ending where they both become immortal is the second option #but I doubt we're getting that again #I know a lot of people want Seb to get his reward and be done with it #but I feel like it would feel more like a loss than a win to him at this point #ofc there's beauty to that tragedy #I just don't know how satisfying it would be

Dying together sounds good! Honestly; the thing is (I think) that even if either one of them survives, the other would be rendered permanently altered and simply won’t exist the same way again—kind of like an emotional death. Sebastian killing Ciel feels akin to Sebastian killing himself because he loved being with Ciel so much that he has reinvented himself and the new self that he has metamorphosed into simply cannot be without his master. Sebastian lives to serve Ciel and Ciel lives to be consumed by revenge/Sebastian. They lose their purpose without each other. In that sense, there is virtually no difference between one of them dying or the two of them dying together—but I want Ciel to fulfill his revenge which cannot happen if the two of them are dead…? They are free to die together after the revenge is successfully fulfilled though, preferably in a burning building.

I have to admit I enjoy the thought of them dying together rather than the s2 ending; mainly because s2 ending forces Sebastian to be with Ciel instead of it being a compulsory choice. I want Sebastian and Ciel to choose to be with each other; over and over and over again. Anyway I doubt demon!Ciel will ever become canon because it raises too many questions and kind of fucks up the manga demon lore.

I’m actually really curious on what kind of ending people want Kuroshitsuji to have; should Ciel die young? Should it take decades before he achieves his revenge? Would you rather the manga ends with Sebastian eating Ciel, Ciel escaping that fate somehow, or an open ending where the manga ends without ever confirming whether Sebastian gets to have his meal?

I’m personally rather undecided but I love romanticizing Sebastian eating Ciel; so there’s that.