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sysmedsaresexist · 3 days
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Our therapist shared something today: at a DID conference she attended last year (at the Bowlby centre) they were told that it can take at least 7 years in therapy for DID clients to get to a point where they can start to tolerate trauma processing. It made some of us feel better about the speed of our progress so I just thought I'd share that in case it reassures anyone else.
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sysmedsaresexist · 3 days
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I'm sure many people are aware, but it's not directly stated in this post, so I'd like to add it if that's okay.
CPTSD and PTSD have different symptoms
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It's actually known that you can have a CDD without PTSD, like that's in the DSM, but it's because the symptoms of CPTSD (which isn't in the DSM) are far more common in these types of disorder and less recognized.
hi there!! i've been reading some of the discussions you've had & many of them are super informative and some comforting to read from the perspective of someone who's questioning if they might be plural/have a CDD. i really appreciate ur blog & the views and experiences u share on it, it feels like a warm hug amidst The Horrors of Syscourse.
i've had something on my mind though. this is probably a silly question, but it's possible to have a CDD without (C)PTSD, right? admittedly i'm kind of just asking this for reassurance while i'm on my own discovery journey. like. i have experienced traumatic events and some of it is ongoing & i'm still living with the people responsible, but i don't think i fit the PTSD criteria due to not experiencing flashbacks or strong emotions related to the events—i usually just feel totally empty & detached from it. i still believe i've been negatively affected by the events hence considering them traumatic, but that doesn't include any kind of flashbacks.
i've been trying to look into it & find answers but i've seen a lot of conflating of having experienced trauma with having PTSD, so most of what i find is "can you be plural/have a CDD without trauma" discourse.
i think it'd be neat to see more conversations about this but free to ignore this ask if u don't want to answer it/if u don't feel equipped to! wishing u the best. have a great day!!
This is actually a very interesting question.
I've read a lot of medical literature on trauma, and each author in the field seems to define what qualifies as PTSD or PTSD symptoms differently, which also lines up with my own experiences with medical professionals in practice. In general, me simply being traumatized was enough for me to be given an automatic PTSD diagnosis, regardless of which therapist or psychiatrist I saw. Some professionals I saw were very specific with what they called what, others were a lot more loose with it.
I've seen a lot of differing definitions and academic debate over what qualifies as a flashback, dissociation, a posttraumatic symptom, and so on. That is to say, it can all be very vague.
For example, there are other forms of flashbacks that exist outside of the well-known ones; some people only relive traumatic events emotionally, or through repeated thought processes, or somatic pain. A lot aren't even aware these are flashbacks, because it's experienced as 'random' emotions or pain or spirals or some other response, and a lot have trouble figuring out what even triggers these responses.
Would these experiences fall under what we call flashbacks in PTSD? Well, it probably depends on who you ask. And, in practice, whether someone with these experiences gets diagnosed with PTSD or a mood disorder or a personality disorder or somatic pain syndrome depends on the medical professional evaluating them.
To further complicate it, a lot of people don't experience overt c/PTSD symptoms until they are no longer living in the traumatic situation, which, for people who develop cPTSD, means they may not show obvious symptoms until a very, very long time after the trauma started. I didn't start getting "classic" PTSD flashbacks and "waking up in a panic attack in the middle of the night" type nightmares about the trauma until I wasn't around the people who did it anymore. However, I have experienced many other trauma-related symptoms and heavy dissociation ever since I was very very little. Before I was diagnosed with PTSD in highschool, I was diagnosed with a lot of other things first.
There's also just the fact that, for whatever reason, people don't all develop the same symptoms in response to trauma. Some people with very complex trauma never experience classic PTSD symptoms. Some people are very dissociative and numb, or develop mood disorders, or obsessive-compulsive symptoms, or somatic symptoms, or eating disorders, or some combination of things. Some people never externally harm themselves or cope using substances while others develop addictions to these things.
In addition, some people's experiences with trauma don't fall under the PTSD criteria's definition of trauma, so even if other symptoms are present they don't "technically" fit criteria. And sometimes medical professionals use their own judgement and diagnose these people with PTSD anyway, and sometimes they don't.
Plenty of people diagnosed with other childhood trauma-based disorders besides CDDs also don't fit c/PTSD criteria or show many c/PTSD symptoms or receive a comorbid c/PTSD diagnosis for whatever reason. It's complicated and messy.
This is all to say, I've encountered medical professionals who treat PTSD as synonymous with "traumatized" and are very loose with what they call PTSD and I've also encountered medical professionals who are very strict about the criteria and are very insistent on only diagnosing people who fit that, and I've met a lot of professionals somewhere in the middle as well. I've also encountered plenty who would much rather focus on helping the symptoms than on what the diagnosis is or isn't, and who don't really like the way mental health diagnosis is structured in the first place.
So, to come back to your question... I don't think there really is an objective answer to it, though personally I'd just say "sure it's possible, and I wouldn't really worry about it much."
In the end, what I've found is that it doesn't actually really matter that much? Regardless of whether there is comorbid PTSD or whether there isn't (or whether it's delayed onset or etc), in the end what you're dealing with if you have a CDD is still trauma, and the treatment for that is more or less the same, regardless of what you call it. There might be differences in, say, approaches to medication specifically, or specific symptoms, but even that is often just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. Honestly, in my experience, treatment mostly looks different based on symptoms and individual needs rather than diagnoses, really.
In general, I find that a lot of people dealing with trauma and mental illness tend to over-focus on diagnosis and getting it right and trying to figure out whether they "really" have something or whether they're mistaken or somehow faking or so on. I think that's an unhelpful approach to it; there's no objective way to confirm that sort of thing, and either way you still need ways to cope with your symptoms, and coping skills are useful regardless of diagnosis. Learning how to ground yourself is useful regardless of whether you "really" dissociate that bad, learning emotional regulation skills is useful regardless of whether you "really" have severe mood swings, learning calming techniques and self-care and how to be gentle with yourself are good things for everyone to learn, coping skills are not just for people with certain diagnoses. In fact, you don't even need a diagnosis of anything to do these things.
And with trauma, like... it's all just trauma processing in the end, really.
I'll even go as far to say that even if you don't have PTSD, books and resources for PTSD might still be useful to you if you have a CDD or another trauma-related disorder, since a lot of symptoms overlap with other disorders and especially with trauma the recommendations for what to do about it tend to be applicable to a lot of different situations outside of strictly PTSD.
I realize I rambled a long time just to say "well, it's complicated and depends on what we mean by PTSD, but also it's all trauma anyway" but I hope this was helpful still?
I'm also glad to hear what you said about my blog, it was very nice to read.
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sysmedsaresexist · 4 days
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Sunflowers
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sysmedsaresexist · 4 days
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Asking victims for "proof" is disgusting no matter the situation or what beliefs they might have, and if you're the one demanding it, you're part of the problem
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sysmedsaresexist · 8 days
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Can someone (literally anyone) kindly summarize what the hell happened at the Transforming Gender conference at the University of Colorado? I genuinely don't have the brain power to get through the presentation.
Something something systemgender as a new gender identity because plurality?
There's a lot of negative stuff on Twitter about it
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sysmedsaresexist · 10 days
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polyfragmentation is a CDD only term because it explicitly refers to a type of dissociation seen in people with CDDs. having a high alter count does not automatically mean you're polyfragmented.
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sysmedsaresexist · 11 days
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When you suddenly remember
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sysmedsaresexist · 12 days
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We really need to come up with better terms for syscourse stances because the main ones aren't cutting it
Anti endo can mean everything from staunch disbelief and bad, aggressive posts to completely believing that endogenic systems are real and valid but not wanting them to interact with CDD-specific content
Being pro endo can mean someone believes DID is caused by trauma and that the CDD community must be protected above all else, to people actively villainizing CDD systems and everything in-between
Endo neutral can mean everything from not caring at all about syscourse and refusing to engage, to allowing interaction from all sides without judgement despite personal beliefs
Anti-misinformation had promise at one point in reference to the massive amounts of misinformation in both communities, but it wasn't working
Any and all of these labels can mean you think the DSM or ICD directly affirms endogenic systems and they can also mean that person has never picked up a DSM in their life
NONE OF THESE ARE WORKING
None of them are accurate
None of them convey the full picture
These are useless labels
(I don't want to hear a peep about the syscourse code, that's not cutting it either, no one has time for that)
People getting upset over pro endo mods on anti endo blogs don't realize that you can share the exact same beliefs about science and the communities and use opposing labels.
Some pro endo blogs should try putting an anti endo on their team to control misinformation and point out ableism, seriously, interaction is how you start learning, anti endos seem more willing to take that step than pro endos and that's pathetic
I also think it might be good to remove the focus from the validity and acceptance of endogenic systems (anti/pro endo) and place it back on what's important-- protecting traumatized individuals
Maybe something like "#CDDs first" can convey that your intention, attention, and audience will always prioritize the CDD community and their safety, but even that... someone can be well-intentioned when they misquote things
I don't know, I'd love to hear the communities' thoughts-- both pro and anti, I'd like this to spread around a bit, I think it's important that people realize that labels don't mean there's disagreement on ideas and concepts-- a pro endo can share the same goals and ideas as an anti endo and vice versa
For example, at this point, I'll happily interact with anyone who agrees that DID is a childhood trauma disorder. That's it. That's my bar. No more, no less. There are pro endos who believe the exact same things I do on all fronts, despite calling me anti endo.
It really just doesn't make sense.
Maybe together we can come up with something better
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sysmedsaresexist · 12 days
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New system slogan 🌟🌟🌟
Strength In Numbers
Or SIN-- shit, wait
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sysmedsaresexist · 12 days
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It's nights like tonight that I truly love my system
Those comforting nights where things are really clear and you all have that "found family" feeling and you all kind of accept (to varying eye rolling degrees) that you're in this together
That feeling makes a lot of crap worth it
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sysmedsaresexist · 12 days
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I wish I could figure out where I belong in syscourse so I could reblog positivity posts without being scared to interact with every blog I come across
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sysmedsaresexist · 12 days
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Eat my fkn yeetus
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sysmedsaresexist · 13 days
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Me: ask me what kind of dog I am
Them: o... kay? What kind of dog are you?
Me: DEPRESSO CANARIO
Them: do you mean... the presa canario?
Me: shit, why am I so bad at this
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sysmedsaresexist · 15 days
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sysmedsaresexist · 16 days
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Ffs. You don’t have to be pro-endo to embrace your alters. You can still love your system all the same, no matter what your fucking syscourse stance is.
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sysmedsaresexist · 16 days
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This is... honestly a really bad post, and I genuinely hope that you'll give this response consideration. It's not going to be written in the most coherent way, I think I bounce around a bit, and I apologize.
You are mistakenly mixing up sysmeds, anti-endos, and anti-systems, to the point that you've come full circle and lost the point in an incredibly offensive way.
By the end of your post, you've implied that all CDD systems are miserable, anti endo sysmeds.
And the post is written in such a way that it's clear you really do believe that.
- Sysmeds harm traumagenic systems
- Sysmeds see their system as a burden
- Embrace your DID by being pro endo so that you stop seeing your system as a burden, this is clearly the only way to happiness
- Blah blah anti endo (not sysmed) mindset is bad
- Implication that all sysmeds are systems, and therefore must be the CDD variety
First off.
Fuuuuuuuuck yoooouuuuuuu
I don't know a single sysmed who thinks those things.
Not one.
Those are not sysmed views. Those are not even anti endo views.
Those are anti-system views of majorly singlet, fdc lurkers, cringers, science deniers and the like.
Views that you imply every CDD system has.
And you're doing that by attacking those with CDDs and perpetuating some really ableist, gross ideas here that do nothing but further "other" the communities from each other by painting DID in a really negative light.
In other words, this post is not helpful at all, and is actually really offensive.
Let's break it down.
Anti endos typically believe that DID is a trauma based disorder, endogenic systems are something else entirely unrelated
Sysmeds typically believe that all systemhood is DID, and therefore trauma based
That's. It. Seriously. There's some mixing and interchangeable labels, but that's the gist.
Let's look at what you're suggesting, what the communities are actually arguing about, what the science says, and how you've done a disservice to the CDD community with your internalized ableism.
All systems suffer from dissociation
First off, not every system is suffering, and the idea that CDD systems are miserable and whiny is so goddamn disgusting and deeply embedded in pro/endo spaces that it makes it hard for EVERYONE to talk about their problems. If only sysmed CDD systems complain, then everything HAS to be flowers and rainbows in pro/endo spaces. Anything too negative must be hidden away. Don't lie, this is a massive problem in pro/endo spaces and we all know it.
But even the most anti-endo or sysmed systems understand that you can love and appreciate your system. For many of us, our system is our only family. Dissociation was our only protection.
Everyone complains at some point about their system. Everyone has problems with their system. Let's not make people struggling with their system and dissociation out to be the bad guy. Complaining and "suffering" is not a measure of sysmed-y-ness.
That said, there is some merit to this. Dissociation obviously comes up a lot because there's currently no other known mechanism that can allow multiple streams of consciousness. Dissociation is not always pathological, though, so the implication that dissociation plays a role in both DID and endogenic systems really isn't that weird or offensive? In fact, those tulpa studies are pretty close to coming out and dissociation pretty clearly plays a role.
This point just annoys me because it's really out of left field. It's not really an argument that's happening in the communities and the wording isn't right, and, finally...
Thinking that systemhood is only suffering and misery is anti-system, not sysmed. We'll touch more on this in the next sections.
Should fuse into one
Even the ISSTD doesn't suggest final fusion as a reasonably attainable and maintainable goal. They wrote the treatment guidelines for DID. If the ISSTD says that, then it's actually anti-system to suggest that final fusion is the Right Way™️.
Many sysmeds and CDD systems and CDD systems that are sysmeds want functional multiplicity. The majority are respectful of people's decisions about their healing. In fact, I would even say that pro/endo spaces are more disrespectful about people's choices. Just look at this. This kind of thing makes people anti-endo.
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Host is most valuable
This is not a scientific view. It can't be a sysmed view if it's not scientific. This is just anti-system and a huge misunderstanding of how DID works.
I do want to point out that some people may come off as being very "me me me", but when there's amnesia between alters and not everyone is on the same page, it can feel very much like it's everyone for themselves-- like you have to focus on yourself to keep safe. The "hostcentric" mindset is understandable in young, untreated systems.
Your entire post feels like it's picking at tiny little truths, blowing them out of proportion, and then acting like your strawman is a monolith for people to get mad at.
Think being a singlet is superior
LMAO WHAT
Come on, seriously?
See above points, ISSTD, functional multiplicity, and then just think for a minute about how absolutely ridiculous this statement is considering who you claim believes it.
Anti-system, not sysmed.
Professional diagnosis necessary
There are some people who think you shouldn't self diagnose, but those people are few and far between. Unfortunately, DID is a disorder that shares many similarities with other disorders and it can be hard to figure things out without a clinician. On the flip side, most sysmeds agree that the cost of professional diagnosis and someone's current living situation may make it nearly impossible to get a diagnosis. This is an anti-system problem, not a sysmed problem.
More interesting is the part about 15 year olds.
The DSM 5 TR and ISSTD talk about what DID in children and adolescence looks like. It happens. This is anti-system, not sysmed.
So with all that out of the way, let's talk about this statement: "Being pro-endo can help shift your mindset from seeing your system as a burden to a positive aspect of who you are as well as gain their support and love."
How dare you put endogenic systems on a pedestal as some kind of ideal.
How dare you imply that CDD systems see their alters this way.
How dare you imply that there aren't CDD systems that can stand alone as role models for the community.
There are therapists and doctors with DID, musicians, actors, painters. Many are open about their DID and how much they love their system.
How dare you not raise up those voices and instead post this crap, as if people with DID can only ever be happy if they're striving to be like endogenic systems.
As if people with DID can't be successful and happy.
Go fuck yourself.
This isn't activism.
It's villainizing and ableist.
Being SYSMED harms TRAUMAGENIC SYSTEMS!
I am an OSDD-1b system who used to be a sysmed/traumascum, and it harmed me. I encourage other systems to avoid being sysmed.
Sysmeds believe all systems suffer from dissociation, should fuse into one, and that the host is most valuable. They often see being a singlet as superior to having alters, and may believe being professionally diagnosed is necessary. They think systemhood can only start from trauma at a very young age- yet if you're 15 or younger and know that you're a system your experience should be doubted. Being a sysmed can lead to hurting your system by abusing alters and seeing them as burdens or less valuable then you as a host.
When I became pro-endo(again), I learned to respect and appreciate my system, while as sysmed- I abused my alters, especially persecutors, because "the host is most important" mentality sysmeds share.
Embrace your DID/OSDD system, it's a part of you that won't go away. Being pro-endo can help shift your mindset from seeing your system as a burden to a positive aspect of who you are as well as gain their support and love. Accept support from those who understand, even if their experience doesn't perfectly match yours.
Endogenic systems deserve respect even if you think they are "confused" or "un-knowingly traumagenic" so let go of any hostility towards them. Trust that their experiences are genuine because frankly- its their right to know what experiences they had, not yours.
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sysmedsaresexist · 16 days
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So, I'm going to address because YOU are part of the problem
You clearly DO need a lecture
I sent the ask. It was polite, to the point, and done in private to avoid backlash.
The ask suggested that you find Dissociative Disorders in the DSM 5, by Spiegel, one of the authors of the DSM 5. In this, Spiegel states, "DID is currently understood as a complex posttraumatic developmental disorder that usually begins before the age of 5–6." The ask then suggested searching "DID posttraumatic" as opposed to something like "DID trauma".
Doing that search yields dozens upon dozens of results from clinician after clinician stating, in no uncertain terms, that DID is a trauma based disorder, categorized in the DSM by its dissociative symptoms.
But you, yes, YOU, know better than every single one of them, right? You're not twisting what even the authors of the DSM say-- the people you're supposedly basing this information on? There's brain scans that show its trauma roots, ffs.
Why do you think that's okay? We have enough problems already, we need to drop the, "is DID trauma-based?" argument. It is. This doesn't discredit endogenic systems.
And now that you're aware of this, and you didn't post the ask, and your original post remains untouched, and you haven't made any posts explaining that you were incorrect, you are now PURPOSEFULLY and WILFULLY spreading misinformation.
Grow up.
Learn something.
You clearly haven't done your research. There is not a single source that says DID is caused by anything other than trauma.
Stop it.
Stop making the problem worse.
Turning off anon asks because someone can't respect that I have done research outside of the DSM-5 and that I don't need a lecture.
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