#''phoenix just got disbarred'' this isn't about him

[threesacult]

happy maya mwednesday everyone

[periwinkla]

I think what I love the most about AA is that characters have a duality to them that I don't see often in media. They have actual flaws and do actual bad things, and it's not glossed over. Phoenix is a fundamentally good person, he helps people at the drop of a hat, risks his life for them. Has a penchant for taking strays under his wing. He believes in people... but also not really. He carries a literal lie detector with him at all times, and only employs people who can also peer into other people's hearts. So is he really that trusting? Sure he trusts his clients are innocent, but he doesn't trust they will tell him the truth at all (there's always something to lie about). He believes himself naive, and that's why he works extra hard not to be. Some people think he changed with his disbarment but I feel like when he actually changed was after Dahlia. He became less and less trusting as time went on. And Phoenix actually does forge evidence and risks his subordinate's career, and he says pretty nasty things sometimes (that one time to Edgeworth had got to hurt, badly, especially if you consider that the note could have been genuine at first, which we don't know for sure), has a pretty tactless and somewhat hurtful sense of humor, brings his daughter to cheat at poker, and doesn't tell said daughter she actually has some family left alive. He's secretive, elusive and cryptic, and masks it under a false pretence of goofiness. Miles is, by contrast, very easy to read. He may appear emotionally stunted but is one of the more emphathetic characters. He realizes when he's wrong and immediately needs to correct those wrongs. He grows uneasy and uncertain and eventually recognizes when he's mistaken. By the end of it he begins to help people naturally, without even thinking about it as much as he would have in the past. He helps so many people, he has basically got Phoenix's savior complex 2.0 but the healthy kind where he doesn't jump off a bridge. But... he was also actually cruel, and did send innocent people to their graves (was he really so naive to believe whichever defendant came his way was guilty?). He feigned his death disregarding other people's feelings, and while you could say he had no obligation towards Phoenix (apart from basic decency and respect towards someone who had turned his life around to save him), he still abandoned Franziska, who was still just a kid and had just discovered her father was a psychopath. She probably thought, at some point, that the apple didn't fall that far from the tree. That's it's somehow her fault as well. He may be rude and antagonistic, frank to a fault. Isn't afraid of telling stuff to your face. But he also cares about the people he loves so much, to the point he doesn't hesitate to risk his career and break the law multiple times. He may appear a pessimist but he's pretty idealistic at heart, it's quite funny that his favourite show is about an hero of justice, isn't it? Godot is... well, we don't know much about it from before his coma, but he definitely shared Mia's sentiments for helping people in their hour of need. But when he wakes from a 6-year coma he's so broken that he just pins the blame on the most absurd person to blame it on, settles on a complicated plan, and also prosecutes on that particular murder he should just confess upon. Iris was sweet, innocent, self-sacrificing. She knew absolutely nothing about the world apart from what Bikini or her sister told her. She was naive and falsely thought she could fix everything, that her sister was salvageable, that she could save Phoenix. But she still ended up lying to the person she loved and abetting a murder. That's why I love these characters so much. They're interesting and their stories make sense. People don't remain unchanged from what happens to them. People are multi-faceted and complex. You can't sum them up in a bunch of characteristics and aspect them to act on every single one of them, always, consistently. Sometimes people break. They make mistakes they regret, ...and some they don't.

[oodlyenough]

apollo justice: ace attorney thoughts

over the weekend I finished playing AA4 so I wanted to try to put my thoughts in order. much to think about etc

spoilers for the whole game obv, but i haven't played AA5 or AA6 yet so any mention of those are speculation lol

I had heard some pretty mixed reactions to AA4 and I had a lot of reservations going in. It's also probably the AA game I've played that I've been the most spoiled for, which is a shame but probably an unavoidable consequence of waiting for the port while engaging with the fandom. I don't usually like being spoiled but I think knowing the broad strokes of what to expect actually helped here. I can imagine an AU where I blitzed through the first trilogy and onto 4 with no idea of what was coming and being... very upset and disappointed by the direction it took. Having several months to brace for things like Phoenix's disbarment, the 7 year gap, Trucy, etc definitely softened those blows and made me more amenable to them than I would've been otherwise.

Cases

For the most part I thought the puzzle solving was good and the pacing was solid. The puzzles were mostly challenging enough to be satisfying to solve but not so challenging as to be infuriating, and I don't think I needed a walkthrough at all. 4-1 is one of the best tutorial cases in the franchise so far (though I'd give the edge to 3-1) and 4-4 was a really cool finale. The middle two cases tbh I also found fairly charming, and there's usually a least one case in the middle that seems to drag forever, so that was a pleasant surprise. I played Investigations 1 right before this, and I thought both the puzzles and pacing in that game were frankly horrible, so AA4 won a lot of points just with that.

I did think Turnabout Corner and Serenade would be more relevant in the grand scheme of things. The half-spoilers I knew had me expecting a much bigger web of conspriacy than we ended up with -- I expected it to be more than coincidence that Phoenix got hit by a car, more than coincidence that the Borginian egg coccoons are related to poison etc ... like... I fully assumed this was going to tie into the atroquinine plot. But I guess not ... ? Lol

Characters

The new main cast are all very likable, despite my initial reluctance to have a new main cast to begin with. Klavier was an interesting change of pace as prosecutor, in that he wasn't particularly antagonistic outside of the court, nor was he particularly preoccupied with winning, but he was still fun and challenging enough to face off against. Trucy was fun and delightfully bonkers as all assistants should be. Apollo's longsuffering exasperation was hilarious. Ema is the BEST I loved having her as the detective I wish she was there all the time.

I loved Beanix, for the most part. I can see why he rubs some people the wrong way, and tbh I'm glad his last canon outing isn't ... this. But I didn't find him wildly out of character, or at least, when he was feeling "out of character" vs the trilogy it made sense given the intervening events. I also thought it was fun to see him from the outside and see what a galaxybrain 5d chess master he is. I do wish we'd gotten to see more genuine moments of him with Trucy.

Kristoph was fun as a villain, though I have to say fandom led me to believe he was much more of a mastermind puppeteer than he seemed to be in reality. I was expecting a whole decade worth of conspiracies! Instead he fucked up once and struggled to fix it for seven years, lol. I also found the Kristoph/Phoenix relationship a) very fascinating, b) not really what I'd been led to believe by fandom (shocker). I like the canon more though -- I like that instead of being a retread of the Dollie betrayal-from-someone-you-love it was two guys who hate each other being forced to play nice as part of their own schemes.

Criticism

I think it's fairly obvious AA4 was meant to be a soft reboot of the series, to pivot away from the trilogy cast and set up our new heroes in Apollo, Trucy, and I guess Klavier. I think this is probably the entire explanation behind Maya and Edgeworth (and others but lbr those are the big two)'s conspicuous absence... but that doesn't make their absence any less conspicuous. I can squint and forgive neither of them being there when Phoenix is accused of murder, even though I find that insane. I can squint around Maya maybe being off in Kurain during the Enigmar trial, even though I think they could've used a line of dialogue to explain it. But then we started playing past-Phoenix for huge portions of investigation and that started to fall apart for me. Sure, maybe he's pushing his friends away because he's depressed, or maybe he wants to keep Maya out of things because he thinks it's dangerous, or whatever -- you could at least throw in a line or two saying as much. Not mentioning them at all and setting AA4 so closely after AA3, where Phoenix fell through a bridge to save Maya and Edgeworth chartered a private jet, just feels ridiculous.

I also think, at the end of the day, the story here was focused on and pivoting around Phoenix. The core question of the game is "what the hell happened to/is up with Phoenix Wright?" I love Phoenix, so that alone isn't a negative -- except that I think it meant Apollo, Klavier and even Trucy felt underwritten. Trucy and Klavier have such personal stakes in the unfolding events with the Gramaryes and Kristoph, but we only spend a little time and hints on how that might influence Trucy, who mostly falls into the AA weird girl pattern of brushing off major trauma instantly. (Maya got this a lot too in the original trilogy.)

Klavier ... I like Klavier, but they did not do much with him. How did he feel about Kristoph going to jail? He doesn't seem to hold it against Apollo, which is uh, noble, but perhaps not believable. He says he values honesty and truth but do we know why?

Apollo, likable as he was, felt like a passenger in his "own" game, rather than a major character. He doesn't even solve much of the stuff happening in the big overarching mystery -- he is Phoenix's avatar in court, presenting evidence and clues Phoenix left for him. Unlike Trucy and Klavier, who I am pretty sure take a back seat from now on, I guess Apollo still has two more games to try and flesh himself out ... lol but I also know fan reception of those two is not great, so my expectations there are minimal.

Overall

A really solid game that I enjoyed playing, though I can see why it's controversial and not some people's favourite, if they really loved the trilogy. I think it's debatable whether this was the best/only way to continue the series after AA3. And I am excited to read and write a billion 7 year gap fics now.

[midnightbrightside]

You wanna know what my favorite part of Krisnix is aside from the loveless infatuation and lust they have for each other?

It's having Miles watch bitterly from afar like a little bitch

I like to think that they weren't official by the time Nicky got disbarred

But Miles was sure once he dealt with his emotional problems and found himself, when he came back he and Nick would finally be together

Only for Phoenix to be disbarred and when Miles finally finds time to get back to Phoenix, Phoenix is dating another man and is deluding himself into thinking he's in love with him.

Sure Miles can be mad at Kristoph and he is,

But really, he only has himself to blame. He waited too long and failed to be there for Phoenix when Nick needed him, (despite Nick doing that for him)

and now he can be bitter, salty, and bitchy about Phoenix being with another man.

While Phoenix can be passive-aggressive about Miles failing to make time for him

And Kristoph can rub it in Miles' face for the time being

We love to revel in Nick's misery, but who doesn't love some juicy Miles bitterness. Isn't men's misery delicious?

TASTY TASTY MISERY MY FAVOURITE SOUP!!

bc YEAH kristoph is offering a kind of consistency and stability that miles never did, a stability that phoenix's needs in such a tumultuous time in his life. so miles can get mad and stay mad because 30 minute phone calls that have to be planned around 7 different meetings and an insane timezone differences just cant cut it!!

and tbh i dont think it was entirely loveless. maybe im a little delusional myself but phoenix didnt know that kristoph killed anyone until turnabout trump. it's kore painful to believe that there was some kind of love between these two deeply lonely men. it makes the betrayal so much juicier.

also!! I actually headcannon that over the 7yg phoenix knows kristoph better than he knows miles. phoenix knows kris and the little things that make up his life. but he only know miles through occassional life-altering events.

[ot3]

I know it's so not even a little bit of the point to wonder about the logistics of this but I'm always SOOOOO curious with how phoenix got everything started and implemented with the jurist system. Like for starters why are they letting someone who got disbarred do this. Im always torn about how much I want Edgeworth to be involved with the process too because I don't think theres any way phoenix could get the damn thing done without edgeworths "professional connections" and "actual knowledge of the law and various other legal systems". but I also don't think phoenix would want to rely too heavily on Edgeworth for it because my personal headcanon for this era of phoenix is that part of the reason he's pulling this shit is to see if this work holds any appeal to him on its own merits. And like it's still a little bit about Edgeworth for him but it's always a little bit about Edgeworth and it's also a little bit about Maya and mia and ema and trucy and anyone else he knows who's life got irreparably fucked up by the justice system.

But mainly, something I think about a lot is that phoenix going to visit Edgeworth in Europe to work cases isn't actually aa4 canon, if memory serves that's a tidbit we get in dual destinies. And it's the one tidbit everyone seems to agree on because well it's just good stuff. so it's really interesting to me to try and think about what those years look like if I don't take that as gospel and throw it out with the rest of aa5. There could be sooo many different versions of things going on there. God.

[cornertheculprit]

Wait, didn't Phoenix know that Kristoph got the page forged? I was under the impression that he found out in the 2 weeks later Mason flashback when he presented Kristoph's profile to Vera, so he must have done that back when he was actually disbarred as well... But the general fandom consensus seems to be that he didn't know? I am genuinely confused.

so the way the mason system works as a whole is kind of confusing but essentially it's just an in-universe "game" of sorts—that is to say, the entire point of the mason system is for the jurors to play through it and come to an understanding of the situation on their own. it's why evidence from the past can be taken and presented to people in the present and vice versa—it isn't an accurate depiction of how the events may have played out because it's supposed to act as a puzzle where all the players have to do is connect the pieces, since it was programmed with all the knowledge that phoenix had in the future: all the information was already there. is this making any sense.

let me try to use an example for it actually: okay. so. even though not every conversation in the mason system is 100% real and accurate (since the whole thing about bringing evidence to present between past and present could not have been done. that was for the game's purposes) i think it's pretty safe to say that it can be assumed that the things phoenix NOTICES about the environment he's in are 100% real and accurate, as are the conversations that follow as a result of it. for example:

Kristoph: You're thinking, "What self-respecting man would use nail polish?"

Phoenix: Not really. I know appearances are a big thing with you. Kristoph: You know what I say? One cannot live a beautiful life without beautiful nails. First rate, in all things. Accept nothing less.

Phoenix: That certainly does look like first rate nail polish. I like the sparkly bottle.

Kristoph: It's crystal. If you're so drawn to it, please, have one. It's on me.

this is when phoenix observes the bottle of nail polish in kristoph's cell in the present. this can be assumed to be a 100% real and accurate conversation between them, since it allows phoenix to acquire the nail polish. however! going back into the past, this is where the line between the reality of the situation and the fictional presentation of facts that the mason system does starts to blur the lines:

Phoenix: TAKE THAT! This... was what they gave you, wasn't it?

Vera: Ah...

Phoenix: The same bottle's over there on your desk. Your good luck charm... right?

Vera: I heard once... Cosmetics were once thought to ward off evil. This... is a magic bottle. It has the power.

Phoenix: Ah... Of course it does. (I'll just refrain from commenting any more on that one.) I think I know who gave you that bottle, actually. The one who asked you to do this "job". Was this the client?

phoenix, seven years ago, does not actually have the bottle of nail polish it took to pry the truth out of vera. he only acquires the bottle seven years later in kristoph's cell. so this conversation, clearly, cannot be 100% real and accurate to what actually happened, and is instead an explanation of the situation so the player/juror putting the puzzle pieces together can better grasp the situation. what most likely happened seven years ago when phoenix met with vera to talk is that he was just left with a dead end, because he had no leads and absolutely no evidence.

phoenix might have grown suspicious of kristoph as time went on, but even he himself seemed unsure of whether or not he even doubted him at all as he says when speaking to kristoph in his cell. above all else, he had always viewed kristoph as a friend—that much, he made clear. it was only the night of zak gramarye's murder that the pieces finally started to slot together for him a little, and the mason system as it is presented to us is basically just an engine that shows us the entire process of phoenix putting the pieces together in his brain. does this make sense

[apollojusticeisperfectlyfine]

I had to get my thoughts out. Okay, first of all. I do not ship this positively. I have my personal feelings about this and I need everyone to know them.

Fucking. Krisnix.

They are exes, they are DEFINITELY exes. I don't think it was a stable and consistent, long-term relationship, but I don't think it was a fwb or 'one-off' situation, either - Kristoph probably isn't dumb enough to get to a man's heart through his pants, so it wouldn't have been purely sexual if at all. I have lots of head-canon for Phoenix and most of the main-series games. I have a vast head-canon universe that you will one-day piece together from my fanfiction, assuming I write it.

Obviously, after the events of Phoenix's disbarment, Kristoph and Phoenix became friends. Best-friends, if we're going by the vague mentions of it it 4-1. This means, by all terrifying logic of the Ace Attorney lore, they spent seven whole years as close friends.

Let's start with the basics.

Phoenix knew about Kristoph's intentions, he could tell from near the start. Let's just go with one year. If there's one thing about Phoenix Wright, it's that his hunches can get him out of every situation.

Kristoph never intended to hurt Trucy directly, because a trick only works once.

On the other hand, Phoenix never let Trucy and Kristoph interact.

Then, the timeline.

They were friends for roughly six months.

Kristoph got a brain-worm that perhaps going from a romantic angle might work. So, that's what he tried to initiate.

Phoenix never really said yes or no, but for a while, they would go on what could genuinely only be described as dates.

This ended about three years into the gap, where Phoenix was trying to be more of a good parent to Trucy.

So, Kristoph went back to his normal bullshit, but now having a lot more emotional dirt on Phoenix. (That he doesn't know Phoenix intentionally said.)

Phoenix started dating Edgeworth five or so years inwards.

I find this specific sequence so incredibly stupid, and so incredibly FUNNY. Specifically the wonderful idea of any dates they had going terribly. Think 4-1 communication style, but every single day.

Kristoph says "Wright, I brought you some food," and Phoenix is thinking "Oh, is it poisoned?" Kristoph says "Would you care to go for drinks?" and Phoenix is thinking "That are poisoned!" Kristoph says "Ah, I found this wonderful perfume," and Phoenix outright smiles and says "Oh a nerve agent!" whilst smiling dumbly.

I will brain-rot so hard about my head-canons and thoughts, ask me anything and I will lose my mind over it. This is just the introduction post. I love their dysfunction as it is, and think it'd be made ten times more hilarious if they nearly dated during it.

[nokistar]

I keep seeing a bunch of revisionism regarding Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney (and it's followups), so let's do a quick review/recap of it and see why the rest of the Apollo Justice Trilogy was spent trying to get rid of Apollo Justice.

This is written by Shu Takumi, who wrote the original trilogy. It was also written with the hand of Capcom on his shoulder, kind of ruining everything.

Originally the game was going to focus on Apollo alone, with no involvement of Phoenix at all. They also wanted specific plot points to be implemented like the jury system in the final trial. They also gave him absolutely no time to actually write anything.

However, this doesn't excuse the game we got from being bad. It just means it didn't have the chance to be good, no matter how hard the creators tried. It's not a reflection of their abilities, it's a reflection of Capcom being terrible.

Plot-wise, Apollo Justice begins with the victorious ending of the original trilogy pretty much instantly being undone and Phoenix being disbarred because everyone in the courtroom is an idiot (a recurring theme with this game, especially in the third case). Phoenix takes evidence from a strange little girl, his defendant runs away in the middle of a trial leaving his daughter behind, nobody looks into the circumstances of the forged evidence presented, and so on.

It feels like an incredibly contrived situation to hoist a new character into the spotlight.

Apollo Justice is a guy. He's supposed to be a more straight-laced version of Phoenix, but that and the rushed writing of the story lead to him just kind of going along with the story while leaving no mark on it of his own. I the original trilogy, Nick and Maya would barge in to confront culprits outside of court, investigate old cases they think are relevant, and just generally being proactive. Apollo and Trucy are just kind of there, but at least Trucy has her magician stuff going on and a fun dynamic with her adoptive father.

Our prosecutor this time around is Klavier Gavin, a rock star. Other games in the series have prosecutors who whip you, attack you with birds, condemn you to hell, drink wine in court... and yet Klavier is somehow the most baffling one of all because his whole gimmick is... he has another demanding job. It has nothing to do with his character journey (it actually causes a plot hole because he shouldn't be prosecuting a case he has a personal stake in, being a possible witness to a murder case that happens at one of his concerts) and just feels like they needed to spice up his character in some way.

So what exactly is his character journey?

Nothing.

Klavier is an antagonist in the strictest terms, as he isn't a bad guy. He's simply opposing you. Even when you're the one who got his brother sentenced to jail. Even when his own brother is on the stand for murder, he keeps a cool, boring head. He has an unwavering sense of justice in his heart.

In other words, he's just there to give you evidence and question prompts. He has no character arc despite how close he is to the plot. He's even the one to go up against Phoenix on the case he got disbarred because plot contrivences.

Speaking of plot contrivances, Apollo and Trucy are half-siblings now. It doesn't affect the story in any way shape or form (other than giving Apollo his awful gameplay gimmick) and is just a last second plot twist for the sake of a last second plot twist.

If I were to be generous, I'd guess future games Takumi planned to write had a larger theme of family and this would impact that. Even in AJ, the theme of family is all throughout it. You have the 'mystery' of Phoenix suddenly having a daughter, you have the second case being about a Yakuza family, you have the Gavins. If the team had the proper time, this could have been important even just thematically.

But as it is, it affects nothing. As it is the game is bad. No amount of what ifs can change that.

And, this is where I really toe the line of being controversial, but I don't think it would have been good even with those what ifs. Why?

Because the Great Ace Attorney duology reran a lot of these problems over the course of two games.

A jury system with no effect on anything. A pointless family relationship reveal. A defense attorney who is pulled along at the whims of his mentor figure. A mountain load of plot contrivences.

So it's no wonder when a new writer came on board afterward, they pivoted so hard away from it.

However, with Dual Destinies, they do follow up on the biggest theme of AJ: the corruption of the justice system. The game is about bringing an end to the Dark Age of the Law. Undoing Phoenix's disbarment, weeding out corruption, focusing on a new generation of attorneys and judges. Even if you think the cases are weak, the thematics are strong. There's a reason why the final trial takes place in a ruined courtroom aside from it being a cool setpiece.

It also introduces Athena Cykes, who is her own character. She has her own motivations, her own way of doing things. She's bold, she can lose her temper. She's a fun character that contrasts Phoenix and was brought into the agency through Phoenix's character motivations.

Apollo, meanwhile, they didn't have anything to work with. A big theme with Apollo as a character is the wild contrivences they have to make to keep him relevant and I think that with the characterization and backstory given to the team by Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, this was all they could do aside from making him Athena's straightman.

This is why they spent Spirit of Justice getting rid of him. If he's got nothing going for him, they might as well write an entirely new backstory just to resolve that hanging plot thread because his backstory has to be something.

I don't want to dislike Apollo, but he wasn't introduced well and that introduction gave him no ground to stand on in future games. He's too straight-laced to work in a cast and world that's always been as vibrant as Ace Attorney's. And most importantly EVERYBODY hated this game when it came out.

That's why Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice, despite their new tone, saved the series after Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. The only reason people are so willing to fight for AJ is because these two did their best to fix what AJ broke.

[coffee-ouji]

APOLLO JUSTICE SPOILERS AHEAD

I was just overthinking the plot again and i need to get this out somewhere

ok so, isn't it crazy how interconnected everything in AJ is? like, how i made a joke in another post, PW cases are always so straight forward once you've already played them but in AJ everything is so much more nuanced and deep, we don't get a simple case or criminal either.

Like, in PW123 we get cases that are supposed to tell us about the main characters via parallelisms. But in AJ? every case is about it's own character- very deep and complex characters on their own- but your defendant is always guilty of something, what you do is fight for a lesser verdict- at least they're not guilty of murder, right? Not only that but the way everything is connected to everything

for example that cutscene that most would brush off as bc the first case is just SO convoluted, your mentor had a relationship with The Phoenix Wright, he's being accused of murder, a random passerby gives you a forged piece of evidence that solves the case, your mentor is FUCKING NUTS and a murderer- and - and- and- you get the point. So what i was getting at is that not only is the guy from that cutscene a very important character, by the time we get to meet him he DIED, discover he had a close eye on you for the majority of your career, phoenix wright is involved in this too- it was bc of him technically that he got disbarred- he also had a relation with Kristoph too and also Trucy's family is OF COURSE involved in this too

Now, let's talk Trucy: not only she probably saved Wright's life, by some casuality she's your long lost sister and you will never know, well, turns out the guy killed in the first case was HER FATHER too and she's everything that's left of the Gramaryes (not actually but she doesn't know) so she carries their entire legacy AND rights of the magic acts patented. ALL OF THAT, BEING JUST FIFTEEN. Trucy is most likely one of the strongest, most goated characters. ANyways

Kristoph- He's fucking insane, not only he's the main villain- yes he's the main FUCKING villain- he's almost omnipotent force for the plot. We get to see him in the main prosecutor of the game, your rival, Klavier, he left such a mark on apollo, he haunts him, Apollo probably can't sleep easy at night knowing he put him behind bars. He probably must be thinking Kristoph will send someone to kill him everyday, always left uneasy. ANd then we get the final showdown, Kristoph- thisi man, this figure of authority, who was your mentor, gave you a job, you owe him your life- he's a demon, he's shown as a literal demon. Not only we learnn he tried ruining Klavier's life he also tried ruining everybody whose involved's lives. Because HE. CAN. AND. WILL. do anything to not let his image of perfection get ruined, he will get rid of everybody in his way and has no shame in admitting it once you find out, because in the end he gives up. yes, he gives up bc he can no longer hide, hide in this figure of authority, of superiority on you. But he knows he will be there, in your mind, haunting. He's in Klavier's visage, in Phoenix's suit, in Trucy's past. He's happy to leave because he knows he's already haunting everything he once touched, moving like a pawn, like he owns them, these people. He knows this, and despite everything, Apollo still looks up to him, because if it weren't for him he wouldn't be where he stands- despite everything, he owes him everything, at least that's how he feels.

rant over

[kingdomoftyto]

Welp, I beat AA5, and it only took me--*checks watch*--almost 3 months

I've already kind of said most of what I wanted to say about it, but overall...... yeah, gotta agree with the general consensus I've seen in the fandom: it's the worst game so far.

That's not to say it doesn't have a lot going for it, because I can already hardly imagine a version of the series without Athena in it (or Blackquill for that matter), and as convoluted as their shared backstory was it was also REALLY good. Everything going on with Metis, Aura, the robots, and even Aura's crazy actions in the present day of the game? All excellent. No notes.

And Athena's gimmick, as I've already said, is great despite how silly and contrived it is. The evidence it provides is no more convincing in a courtroom setting than Apollo's callouts of witness' nervous ticks, but at least that shortcoming is acknowledged by several characters out loud, and it furthers the narrative started in AA4 that "decisive evidence" can't always be relied upon to find the real truth. So in that sense I think going the route of analytical psychology was a brilliant play on the writers' parts.

...... that is, it WOULD have been brilliant if they hadn't simultaneously turned around and thrown out basically the entire ending of AA4 itself...? Did they even mention the Jurist System ONCE in this game??? I don't know how they would have implemented it without compromising the gameplay loop, but they could have at least ACKNOWLEDGED it as being implemented offscreen or something.

And I don't think Phoenix's characterization is quite as dire as I've seen a couple of people suggest, but I do wish we saw him a little more calculating and poker-faced after his disbarment. It's not that he's OUT of character in this game, imo, but it could have added a lot to the story if he'd been a little more obviously changed by the prior seven years.

................ and then yeah, there's the parts that are just objectively bad writing lol. Klavier's shoehorned and out-of-character cameo, Apollo's out-of-the-blue, piled-on backstory of the week, Phoenix's (and Miles') relatively mild reaction to Trucy being held fucking hostage....

And. Y'know. The 3D models are just ugly. 😔 I like Athena's and Blackquill's and some of the witnesses but everyone from the 2D era looks awful now. (Except Trucy I guess but her sprites are all like.. exactly 1:1 with her old ones and are only seen from one angle, unlike the lawyers.) It's a shame because I LOVE the artwork for the game--Phoenix's new design freaking RULES, but it wasn't translated well from the concept art into the character model. :( Same for Miles. And the less said about Apollo the better

BUT ANYWAY

TL;DR - The game isn't very good imo, but it's also got so many excellent pieces within it that it's not one you should just skip or anything, either. The other games in this series set such a high bar that even the worst of the bunch is still not actually a bad game. It's worth a few frustrating out-of-character moments and especially-contrived plot threads for all the delicious new stuff underneath.

...*sigh* Guess this means I have to start SoJ next. And I've heard mixed things about that one, too, haha.......

[ultraericthered]

Ace Attorney - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 22, 23, 25, 26, 27.

Will answer the ones I can.

1. Phoenix/Mia and Phoenix/Maya. To me it couldn't have been clearer that his relationships with both sisters were both different levels of platonic and in no ways romantic, regardless of how Pearls might view the latter. 2. It's not exactly popular, but definitely Phoenix/Iris. They'd be great friends, but there's no way they're ever becoming an item again given there history and what Iris and her twin sister put Nick through. 3. Not that I can recall. 4. I don't think it is but... Edgeworth/Franziska. I don't care that they're from different bloodlines, it's still incest to me. 5. Nope. 7. Maya Fey landing in trouble, whether it be by wrongful accusation and jail or abduction. When this shit still happens to her as a young adult, it's nowhere near as charming as it once was and I feel less inclined to want to come to her aid. 9. Matt Engarde, Kristoph Gavin, and Quercus Alba, because they’re all repulsive douchebags who revel in making things needlessly difficult. 10. For games, Apollo Justice. For individual cases, Turnabout Ablaze, the playable equivalent to a deflating balloon. 11. Pretty much everyone from the Berry Big Circus, mainly due to the anime adaptation of Turnabout Bigtop making even the worst of them come off better. 12. Most fans don't seem crazy about Turnabout Samurai, but c'mon, it's fucking iconic. It's even the case that STARTED the "Ladder VS Stepladder" running gag! 13. Godot was a prideful, wrathful, sexist and self destructive bastard who got what he deserved. Yes he's also an immensely tragic figure who we feel for and cry for, but that doesn't cancel that other fact out. 14. Nope. 15. The anime isn't the same Ace Attorney experience as the games, but narratively and character-wise, it does things not only as well but sometimes better. 16. JFA and T&T needed to get post-game cases like the original game recieved with "Rise From The Ashes". T&T could've even had a playable Northbound Turnabout Express! 17. [insert stuff with Dahlia & Iris and their Fey Clan relatives here] 22. Klavier Gavin. I don't hate him, he's just...nothing to me. 23. Athena Cykes isn't exactly unpopular but she is controversial. But fuck the haters, I love her. 25. That whole "Phoenix gets disbarred and none of his friends and found family members come to his aid" bullshit never happens following T&T, obviously. 26. Mia Fey. 27. Miles Edgeworth. (He just seems completely asexual to everyone but his coutroom bestie/rival, Wright!)

[sugarplumbaby]

!!!MAJOR APOLLO JUSTICE SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

i recently finished Apollo Justice and i have something to say

about this scene.

This is when Phoenix shows the evidence that got him disbarred, which was upsettingly something i already knew would happen before playing the game.

What i noticed when playing this part was Klaviers reaction. He hits the wall, like he often does when saying something, but this time, he has a delay.

He just stands there for a moment, not moving, not speaking until he says "...Finally."

When playing through this i wondered what was the reason for this delay. At first i thought it was like, him being satisfied about winning? So he just took in the moment or smth? But now im realizing what that pause might have actually been.

He's hesitating.

And forgive me for probably being the last person to notice this, but Klavier is literally one of my favourite AA characters and my fav prosecutor and this is one of the reasons why.

He's always after the truth, he always wants to do the right thing, but at this point in his life, he also wanted to make his brother proud and do what makes Kristoph happy.

This pause is a showcase of the fight between Klavier's morals. Does he really want to do this? He probably knows that Kristoph had somehow organized this to happen and he would be setting off his trap. He knows that Phoenix didnt mean to show fake evidence. He wants to go after the truth and this isn't the truth. It's a trap.

But at the same, he doesnt want to lose his first trial after he had been shown everything by Kristoph. His brother told him to do it, so he will. All he wants is for Kristoph to be proud of him.

This little pause is the final chance to stop it. To stop Kristoph from winning, but he chooses not to. A valid choise considering he probably doesn't want to get himself in trouble with Kristoph, but a choice that would have probably haunted him for years.

Im sorry if i've gotten some of the facts wrong (i can't remember the details so well :p) but i just wanted to share my thoughts on this, because i love Klavier and his character arc and this game okay bye

[everysongineverykey]

what if klavier had a role model, too? someone he admired and aspired to emulate? someone besides kristoph and constance courte? a prosecutor, perhaps, who believed in finding the truth before anything else. who rose above his own troubled past and became an honourable man who always stood for justice first and foremost. who spoke german and, indeed, lived in germany for quite a while, and who klavier always heard about from his brother's counts of the legal world while klavier was still studying for the bar and grew to idolize. someone like miles edgeworth.

and what if klavier got to meet said role model? what if he finally got introduced to the man who inspired him to become a prosecutor, by asking trucy wright to ask phoenix wright to put them in touch? to take out the two (only two, klavier can't believe it) degrees of separation between him and his legal hero? and what if when they finally met on a case, miles edgeworth looked klavier gavin and his practised smirk and leather jacket and outstretched hand up and down and bestowed upon him an unhappy, almost resentful glare?

poor klavier. never meet your heroes. edgeworth makes sure their relationship never goes beyond distant colleagues. the rockstar doesn't understand- is it his hair, his clothes, his put-on accent? his wild, extravagant lifestyle? why does this man he has always looked up to hate him so? apollo justice gets a kick out of it. klavier bemoans edgeworth's hatred of him and apollo smirks and murmurs "well, he's not wrong!"

phoenix wright just chuckles and says something to the effect of ah, well, some people just don't get along, and does edgeworth look like the type who takes to rock stars? but later on, he admits that it's a little weird- edgeworth isn't usually THIS cold towards people he's never met. apollo, still greatly enjoying this pantomime, says, "i think you've got great taste in friends, mr. wright!"

and all at once, klavier thinks through some things. he thinks of growing up and reading about outstanding court cases through the years and being amazed at how the ace defense attorney phoenix wright solved the fifteen-year-old cold case that had hung over miles edgeworth's back for his entire life, putting feared prosecutor manfred von karma behind bars, and he thinks of how trucy had once told him that her uncle miles was so kind to her and her daddy during his disbarment years, always flying him out to europe to help him with legal work and visiting them at the agency and telling trucy how very lucky she was to have such a father.

and klavier thinks of that fateful case seven years ago, the one that changed the legal world forever. the one where the rookie rockstar-slash-prosecutor defeated and disgraced the ace defense attorney who always rose from the ashes. defeated him, yes, and ruined his life, leaving him with nothing but a law-office-turned-talent-agency and a daughter he was not experienced in caring for. and prosecutor gavin realizes something important. miles edgeworth is like ema skye. miles edgeworth can never be a friend of klavier gavin.

because miles edgeworth is a friend of phoenix wright.

[oodlyenough]

alright I'm finally playing turnabout succession and despite how many big reveals i'd already been spoiled for the case is still surprising me in parts and clearly going to be quite long so i thought i'd put some thoughts together now

I'm not-quite-finished the MASON system chapter so no spoilers plz

some general notes:

I knew Vera Misham existed but not really anything about her or her father so that whole first trial was fun

I can't believe the glass hand statue I've seen in fanart a million times is the world's least ergonomic nail polish bottle ?!?!? lmfaoo ... nothing like the feeling of sharp crystal fingertips digging into your palms while you apply a... clear topcoat ... okay

Ema popping up in court with a Kristoph impression just to fuck with Klavier is the funniest thing in the world I love her so much. #1 hater

extremely generous of the judicial system to let disbarred lawyer phoenix wright design and run the new thing lmfaoooo

god willing they'll give me a chance to say 'i've spent the last seven years building up an immunity to atroquinine'

troupe gramarye is fucked up man LMAO i mean i kind-of guessed but i didn't anticipate the levels of it and i think we've only scratched the surface so far

i knew the names 'zak gramarye' and 'shadi enigmar' from fandom and never in a million years would i have guessed which was the magician stage name and which was his birth certificate name

i'm not sure what i'm meant to be thinking of zak so far. they alternate a bit between him seeming to be at least something of a concerned father, popping back up to will stuff to trucy and wearing her locket etc ...and him being physically violent, abandoning her in the first place and scheming to ruin phoenix's life a second time for no reason. I was pretty sure the victim from 4-1 was trucy's dad, and at the time I wondered if his plan was to undermine Phoenix in order to take custody of Trucy again, but so far it seems like he was just ... being a dick? lmao. I dunno; case isn't over so presumably more of that will come to light

still a big fan of valant, he cracks me up idc if he shot that old man. the game is telling me there was friction bc he was in love with thalassa but it's too little too late when i've already decided he has a weird gay thing with zak and also canonically he is capable of impeccable thalassa drag, so

drew misham being like "i left my reclusive 12 year old alone with a strange adult to discuss crime. it's ok though bc she felt an immediate affinity for a man she describes as the devil and agrees to keep secrets for" sir what the fuck do you mean !!!!! rest in pieces honestly

actually when we hit the bit about 'well vera doesn't like many people but she liked him', i was like "she liked KRISTOPH???" and @nowwheresmynut was like "maybe it was one of the gramaryes since she's a stan" and i was like "oh that makes sense". but it doesn't. it was kristoph. Lmfao. child whisperer

the MASON system is so ??? lmao... why does my inventory carry over from past to present lmaooo. phoenix invented time travel (real) (not clickbait)

I was going to write a whole thing about the disbarment trial and the investigation portion but this post is already enormous so it might be its own thing. I have deeper thoughts about that stuff from like a... broader game/storytelling pov. I will say I knew there was a flashback trial but I did NOT know you got so many investigation portions as Phoenix what a nice surprise 😭😭😭 I miss him

[digitalstowaway]

Apollo Wright AU

Apollo hears Miles and Phoenix talking about The Trial one night. He jumps in to say that he hates Klavier Gavin and that he'll never forgive him for getting Phoenix disbarred.

Miles sits him down and tells him that Gavin was just doing his job.

"Mr. Gavin knew that there was forged evidence in the courtroom, and he brought it to the attention of the judge. He did everything I wish all prosecutors would do. We can't fault him for that."

"But he got Mr. Wright's badge taken away. Isn't it suspicious that he knew that it was forged?"

"Yes. But that's not for you to worry about."

Miles is so good with Apollo, taming all of his anger and redirecting his energy.

"I'm going to become a lawyer and do something about things like this."

Miles smiles. "I hope you do. We'll be waiting for you."

[palant1r]

i gotta ask for my favorite nasty bisexuals. thoughts on klavema? or klavemapollo if you prefer!! :]

Klavema: I don't ship it

1. Why don't you ship it?

Idk, there just isn't that much meat for me to sink my teeth into. I do think their friendship could be interesting, considering how Ema seems to hate him because of how he got Phoenix disbarred, not because of who he is. Because of that, there's animosity, but not the personal kind I love to fuck around with.

2. What would have made you like it?

If they'd had a more personal kind of tension. Maybe more back-and-forth banter, more battles of wits. Some closure when Ema learns that Phoenix's disbarment wasn't his fault. I'm very prone to shipping something with barely any canon interaction, but those crumbs have got to be compelling. There just isn't that much left unsaid for klavema, not much potential for me to explore

3. Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

Yeah it's a HILARIOUS concept oh my god. They would be SO FUNNY as a couple