#'i hate cersei cos she's dumb' well i love cersei cos she's dumb. and she isn't even dumb.

[daenystheedreamer]

i hate how people read asoiaf and go But what if they were more strategic. oh renly was so dumb to usurp his brother. cersei was so dumb when she [everything she ever did]. daemon was dumb when he did blood and cheese. and its like but they did those things because theyre renly cersei daemon. renly is an attention whore cos he has no parents and two brothers one of whom is a pussy-slaying frat bro and the other is a closeted middle manager. cersei did dumb things because she was raised by tywin 'caesar was right' lannister in the seven 'patriarchy' kingdoms. and daemon is daemon. you guys just want a book where everyone is a flat personality 500iq MENSA logician. and that sounds like dogshit!

[dcbicki]

Why D&D might not have completely fucked up Jaime/Brienne

Look, I know we wanna drag D&D for all their many faults — and there are a fucking lot! of them — but I haven’t lost all hope on the Jaime/Brienne front. They wrote 8x04 and the final two episodes, so everything that happened in *that* episode (as shitty as it comes off at first glance) isn’t going to be forgotten about or ??? in the next episodes because of a shift in the writer’s room. Moreover, they’re also directing the finale. They’ve only co-written and co-directed two episodes before: 3x03 “Walk of Punishment,” and 4x01 “Two Swords.” Two episodes that feature important elements of the Jaime/Brienne relationship. Now bear with me here.

Interestingly, 4x01 is when Jaime first mentions “killing people so he could get back to Cersei,” —  which is not what he does in 8x04. He just reminds the audience of these things. She responds in kind that their relationship is fractured because he’s not the same, and he’s too late: they’re different people now. (And oh, if only, the show would have kept this up.)

It’s also the episode that starts off with the forging of Oathkeeper and Widow’s Wail. And it’s when Jaime and Brienne have their first discussion about Sansa’s safety; something that plays a vital part in their relationship.

But if we rewind back to 3x03 “Walk of Punishment,” we’re treated to one of the best closing scenes this show has ever given us (in my totally, totally biased opinion.) Both captives of Bolton bannermen, Jaime shows the first signs of his humanity when he convinces Locke to stop his men from r*ping Brienne in exchange for a ransom demand. Deal struck, he’s back to being his usual self, only nobody is having it, and Jaime loses a part of himself for it: his sword hand. He was that hand; this is part of the reason his relationship with Cersei is so fraught when he returns home.

Of all the punishable things he’s done, all the hateful things he’s done for a hateful woman, his punishment comes after he does something good, for something other than his sister or his family. He loses his reason for being, but Brienne is there to pull him out of his funk and convince him to live long enough to seek revenge. Granted, he doesn’t get his revenge, but from here on out, we see a different side to the man everybody despises.

For the next few seasons, his storyline goes all over the place because the writers didn’t have a clue what to do with him. So, for the most part, he remained Cersei’s lapdog and did her bidding; only he did it differently. The people he killed for Cersei, he killed before he knew Brienne. The people he threatens for Cersei, he lets live because he knows Brienne, and he would now rather live up to her code of honour than kill people with bloody violence (as his sister would want).

He realised last season that Cersei’s ways of dealing with her enemies aren’t the right way, and he up and abandons her when she refuses to see the bigger picture, the bigger threat, and she outright orders his death — and I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I digress. And then we end up here: he goes to Winterfell, promises to fight for the living under Brienne’s command, and seemingly accepts Daenerys as his new Queen. They win the war, and Jaime doesn’t bail on everyone. He settles. He stays. When everyone is heading South to wage war against his former sister-lover, or leaving to go God-knows-where, Jaime stays. “Ser Jaime has chosen to remain here, as a guest of the Lady of Winterfell,” in other words, Sansa offered him a place in the North and he took it, and he took Brienne as a lover.

Time fucking flew by, and he seemed fine with the idea that Cersei could be taken out by Dany/Jon’s army. But then she somehow got the upper hand, and word got out that the army he just fought for was losing, so Jaime made a snap decision. It would make no narrative sense for him to up and bail on everyone now. He’s not a cutthroat who just swaps sides. He’s a knight with honour, and a knight’s duty is to protect their lord. Jaime’s lord now would be, I’d say, Jon (?) And if his wildfire-crazed sister is threatening to unleash chaos on innocent people (not dissimilarly to the way Aerys II did, and we all know how Jaime felt about *that*), and now his lords’ army, dragons and advisors are under attack when they’d thought to be in a position of power, You can sure as shit bet it would fit Jaime’s character to try and stop her. Only, to do that, he has to /ruin/ the little life he’s making for himself in the North.

“You know the first thing I learned in the North? I hate the fucking North,” he says. “It grows on you,” Brienne replies. “I don’t want things growing on me,” he retorts back without a single stitch of distaste in his voice.

You know what grows on him, very quickly? The North. Brienne. Life there. Tyrion literally says, “I’m happy that you’re happy.” You know what doesn’t make him happy? A mad sister who’s going to kill thousands of people, not when there’s a chance he can stop her. They’re connected, they’re twins. And he’s committed terrible crimes for her because she, for whatever reason, couldn’t do them herself. But he’s reformed (for the most part), and he’s aware that the things he did for her — for her love, for the love of their family — were essentially wrong. And if he can learn from his fuckups, and seek redemption, then surely Cersei can, too. They're supposed to be one and the same, after all; the only difference is that Cersei is beyond repair, and Jaime had Brienne to repair him. And so he leaves Brienne for the same reasons he murdered in Cersei’s name — “the things we do for love”. She (and Sansa, who she’s sworn to protect) won’t be safe in the capital, given the way everything is transpiring down there, and thus his only option is to ~betray~ her trust, her love, and depart on what could easily be a suicide mission. Cersei doesn’t want him down there; she sent a fucking armed cutthroat after him after threatening him with the Mountain, and Jaime isn’t that dumb to think she might just accept him back with open arms. Not that he wants that. I think he wants peace, but sadly he probably won’t ever get it. But if it means innocent people, and the woman he now loves have a shot at survival, then wouldn’t it make sense for him to paint himself as a monster, as who he used to be before she changed him for the better. “And so am I [hateful].” We’re in the final act, guys. “Nothing is more hateful than failing to protect the one you love.” A Brienne quote that applies here because, well, how badly would he hate himself if he failed to protect all those he now loves? And let’s not forget where they started;

“If he could learn to love another, and earn her love in return by the time the last petal fell, then the spell would be broken. If not, he would be doomed to remain a beast for all time. As the years passed, he fell into despair and lost all hope. For who could ever learn to love a beast?” — Beauty and the Beast

So, yeah, D&D writing and directing the finale somehow actually makes me more optimistic for Jaime/Brienne’s prospects. And if I’m wrong and they’re actually just ~fucked~ now, and D&D are actually just dipshits who committed character assassination of the highest degree, well then... Guess I’ll go live under a rock with my books and brain cells.

[bellamyblinkingrapidly]

Don’t Hate Jon Just Because You Started to Love Sansa...

I’m all for the support people have for Sansa. I just wish it wasn’t so often at the expense of Jon. People are like Sansa’s smart and Jon just thinks with his cock. And I don’t believe that they have to be mutually exclusive! Sansa IS smart, and I’m glad people are seeing her value. It’s about freaking time!! She’s a queen. She’s got the support and love of her people.

Recognize though that that does not negate Jon’s intelligence or value. Jon may be making some unpopular decisions as of late. That’s something leaders are often forced to do, and Jon has already shown he will make the decision he believes is right even if the people are so disgruntled they will murder him in cold blood. This isn’t stupidity - it’s his morality. Sansa trusts Jon, she has faith in him, and we should too.

Jon isn’t thinking with his cock.

The Jon who gave up having sex, a relationship, or family EVER by joining the Night’s Watch is now giving up the North, his home, for a girl?? While still fighting the war he would be fighting if he was in the Night’s Watch?? Yeah... something’s fishy.

I need pol!Jon to be true to trust and like and believe in his character. I’ll die on that hill. Because I love Jon, and Jon is smart despite what everyone thinks. He’s a great military man. He has a great moral compass and sense of honor and what’s right. He doesn’t want power or a crown, and yet he shines in leadership positions. He listens to advisors and hears complaints.

Jon has been zoned in on one issue and one issue only: Winter is Coming.

The NK/WW/AOTD threat is his mission at all times. As a former crow, a former wildling infiltrator, an admirer of Mance Rayder, a Lord Commander, a King in the North, a Stark (if only because Sansa says it’s so), and now “Warden of the North” Jon is at all times fighting the battle against this one threat.

That may appear foolish to us because we have lines from Littlefinger suggesting to fight every battle always at all times, and that’s great advice. However, this is something Littlefinger could never imagine. This goes beyond loyalties. This is about survival.

Of course we know that this is Game of Thrones and there will be an aftermath of this war that leans political. There will be an afterwards even if Bran tries to be all aloof and spooky about it. However Jon does not know there will be and he also probably assumes he will die fighting this war.

Sansa is thinking about the afterwards... and she’s thinking about the war as well.

She is smarter than anyone else - Arya said so and I believe it. At the same time, Jon is still the only one who truly fully understands the threat they face and how impossible the odds are, which brings me to the most important conclusion...

Sansa and Jon are meant to rule together as partners.

Their strengths and weakness compliment each other really well. Jon is a military man. Sansa is a politician. Jon has that authentic quality of an everyday man you want to follow. Sansa has the cool grace of a queen you don’t want to disappoint. Jon is Ned 2.0 as Sansa is Catelyn 2.0. Jon has a fiery temper, and Sansa an icy one. Both love the people and care for them in ways others often neglect. When one of them is about to make a questionable decision, the other can step in and counter. Jon doesn’t always see all the possibilities whereas Sansa does. Sansa sometimes can lose track of her morality (understandable considering her biggest mentors were Cersei and Littlefinger), and Jon doesn’t lose his sense of what is right.

I’ve seen some posts kind of putting Jon in a corner like all he’s good at is commanding armies and shit. Sure that’s one of his strengths. But Daenerys is the one who sees Jon as purely a commander to her armies in the North - that’s what “Warden of the North means - and it makes sense that we might agree with her because we get a helluva a lot of her POV and zilch nada nothing from Jon most of the time.

But Jon has much more to offer. He’s smarter than his father (because Ned will always be his father) or Robb - he already proved this in seasons past. He may not be as smart as Sansa, but that doesn’t make him the Northern fool everyone wants him to be. As Lord Commander, he had to care for a lot more needs of the Castle than just the ranging missions. He’s already better than Robert Baratheon, he’s already led in ways that are military-related.

I may be upset with Jonathan if he doesn’t love Sansa because I feel that it was very clear she loves and trusts him in episode 1 of this final season. I don’t want him to break her heart. But I’m not too worried because I also feel like it has been very clear in past seasons that Jon has feelings for her.

Everybody can do their own thing. Believe their own theories. Ship their own ships. Jonsa and political!Jon aren’t mutually exclusive. This is just my opinion. I just personally feel that rooting for the North, for Sansa, and for Jon are all basically the same. It’s Team Stark, Team North. Don’t bash the co-captain, ya know?

Maybe I’m being overly protective of my Jonathan. Listen, I get he’s done some stuff that looks dumb. But I believe in him and I will continue to do so even if the show runners don’t. In fact, if political!Jon isn’t a thing and he’s actually just a lovesick fool or just another dude who thinks with his dick, then

I’ll be the Northern fool.

[ohjaimelannister]

What are your predictions for 8x04 and the rest of the season? Plus all the major characters, like who do you think will live?

Oh god anon, Im sorry I didnt see this until now! 8x04 is kinda redundant now, and no one could have really predicted that storm of shite.

Okay so this is gonna be long I guess but here we go.

To be honest with you I only have a few prediction as to where the story’s gonna end up, I’m more concerned with the characters but :Kings Landing and the Iron Throne are destroyed by Cersei and/or Daenerys and Drogon. There is no more ‘King or Queen’ of the Seven Kingdoms, they have a council of a few (possibly elected? but probably not because this is Westeros) lords in a democracy or each kingdom goes back to being completely independent (which in the Norths case I wouldn’t actually mind) .

I’m not sure whether the White Walkers are truly gone or not? I’m not sure whether there’s gonna be something to do with them, but probably not. But basically there’s gonna be a lot of destruction and dismantling of the normal before this is all over.

I think this isn’t going to be type of “The End” situation, life will continue and maybe we’ll get some sort of epilogue about how one of the characters we’ve come to know is murdered under /mysterious/ circumstance (just like how the series began with Jon Arryns murder) or there’s another rebellion and the cycle begins all over again. There will be the inlaying message about how the wheel is never ‘broken’ because power will always be coveted and power will always be taken from those that have it. Basically they’re doomed to live this cycle over and over again. Hence the ‘bittersweet’ ending. All those that died along the way, died for nothing because the politics, backstabbing and wars will never be over.

Characters :

Lets start with The Starks, Sansa- I have nothing much for you except I just hope she lives at this point? Honestly, Id like her to rule and be Sansa of House Stark, First of her Name Wardeness of the North. She cares about her people and loves them endlessly so she’s perfect for ruling and protecting the North because of all she’s learned from figures like Tyrion, Cersei, Littlefinger etc.   I don’t really mind if she marries or not but I’d like her to at least experience a loving relationship at some point in her life after all the shit she’s suffered through, and she just deserves to be happy basically. Though saying all of this considering how they’re writing it at the moment I honestly and truly expect her to end up ruling the north completely alone without any of her family with her because that ‘subverts expectations’ and D&D are shits.

Jon - well I hope for the best again but let’s be honest we’re not going to get it. Therrs two ways this could go : 1.) He doesn’t want to rule and I honestly don’t think he will. I would like him too, he’s good in leadership positions and he’s got the ‘saving the masses’ temperament (re: Wildings and getting himself killed for it) but I’m getting real big “gonna kill my auntiegirlfriend” from him at the moment, and I think we all know by know its been implied that Dany is going to go ‘mad’ and hell do it it to stop her from continuing to destroy an already burning city and more people from dying later on when shes finished with Kings Landing. Itll sort of parallel with Jaimes story in the end, though instead of being protected by the new ruler and his family, Jon will confess to his ‘crime’ and be sent to the North to exile, and go off with Tormund via Castle Black. I don’t want to say he establishes a new Nights Watch because there’s really no need for them now? Unless the WW aren’t really gone, then hell feel like he has too and the cycle will start all over again. Either way, he’s going to end up alone pretty much. As Beric and Ser Alistair said his life will never be easy and hell end up fighting others wars forever.

2.) Basically the same thing as before ^ but instead of being exiled, Drogon will just burn him to death in the Throne Room for killing Dany.

Either way Jons not going to get a happy ending I don’t think.

Arya - Her whole arc on the show has been badly written, and in the end I just want her to be happy with her family and Gendry. BookArya just wants a ‘pack’, basically a family. She fought so long and hard to get back to where she was, and even announced it to one of the most dangerous men in the world that she was “Arya Stark of Winterfell” and that she was going home. Where has that been this season? I want her not to kill Cersei, I want her to see what impact Cersei and Dany tearing each other apart has on KL and decide that vengeance isnt the best route and go to Gendry, who she clearly loves and he clearly loves  her. The Hound might even try and convince her to seek out Gendry because there’s someone in the world that obviously loves her for who she is.  But in all honesty? I think theyll have her just leave without saying goodbye to any of her family and just disappear again to find out what’s “west of Westeros”.

Dany - Dead. I dont like saying it, because I think Emilia has done her very best with whats been given to her (and D&D have done her dirty) but Dany is going to end up being killed by Jon for going mad with power and bloodlust basically. All signs have been pointing to it for a while now and without her morale compass in Ser Jorah and experiencing the pain of the abduction and then murder of someone she loved as a sister is obviously going to send her over the edge. I dont think shes ‘evil’ as such but, shes always had a problem with her anger and temperament, which the others have been skillfully subduing for years, with them gone, watch out world. Of course I could be epically wrong and she could actually win, murder all the Lannisters and Jon in a shock twist and take the Throne for herself??

Cersei - Dead. I mean it would be the ultimate shock and plot twist if she somehow lived and killed all the others? And tbh with the writing at the moment I wouldn’t actually hate that. I think shell probably either get killed by Jaime or take the easy way out like she was going to try to do before Stannis got to her during the Battle of the Blackwater. Nothing too surprising on the horizon there I think (hope).

Jaime - I want him to live? I mean I’ve known for many years there’s a 99% chance the he will die but I still have the smallest hope.  If he has to die let it be heroic, let it be him killing Cersei to stop her from blowing up KL to get at Dany and co. Hed only die if he was wounded in the fight to get to Cersei (which is highly likely), or if he was caught by Dany and she has him executed because it looks like he betrayed them all, when in reality he was the only one who could get close to her. Im not gonna say anything about the leaks because I really hope that if he has to die its a GOOD death (and not falling from towers or jsut to be with cersei at the end or some shit) and that its his redemption arc completed and I really hope while hes killing Cersei he says “The things I do for love” and she KNOWS its not about her anymore. I will really be angry if this is a D&D screw up and they mess his entire character arc up because of this “addiction” nonsense. If he has to die let it be with Brienne by his side (because shes gone chasing after him) cradling him. “In the arms of the woman I love”

My dream for him would be that he lives, goes to Tarth, marries Brienne (after begging her forgiveness and shes punched him, ALOT) and they have warrior babies. The end.

Tyrion - I have two endings in mind for him, Dany finds out about someone is plotting behind her back and either Varys sells Tyrion out so he can keep playing his little games (or they both get found out) and he has a trial and is executed. Or if Dany dies he becomes part of this council thats going to lead Westeros.

Brienne - She lives? I cant see anything bad happening to her at this point unless she goes to KL to save Jaimes dumb ass. Either way I think shell live and end up bearing Jaimes child (whether he lives or not) because they were together for weeks and weeks, and it’ll be a plot device used to carry on the Lannister bloodline when the other three die, like Gendry was for the Baratheons. Which lets face it would cover the whole “bittersweet” ending really wouldnt it? She has to carry and bare the child of a man who loved and left her (with hopefully good reason) but shell never know that so she has to raise him/her alone on Tarth as a constant reminder.

Gendry - Well. Boys got two options (maybe three) But I dont think hell stay Lord of Storms End possibly? If its a choice between Storms End or Arya, I hope hell pick Arya. Shes never cared about him being a lord, she loved him for who he was way before he was made one. Or they just live in Storms End together and raise children. (They have to give us something right????) And the third option - Ive always had this really weird foreboding feeling he’d end up married to Sansa, Arya said no and made it clear she doesn’t want to marry, and if she leaves then…….the whole “i have a son, you have a daughter” thing still becomes a reality.

Pod - Well, I hope he lives, gets made a knight and helps Ser Brienne on Tarth basically. Hes too pure to be ruined (though D&D will probs give it a shot)

Davos - Might live? Im not so sure, if he does hell be helping out the new ruler/rulers in some way?? Or hell just be down in FleaBottom adopting random kids left and right.

The Hound - Will probably die in Cleganebowl and Arya will actually give the gift of Mercy this time, but not before he bestows his dad wisdom on her about Gendry/Life. And if he does by some miracle live hell probably go somewhere, build a house and live there in solitude for the rest of his days.

Bronn - Well I had a joke that this shit (i loved the character early on but this season has just been no) would avoid all the major battles somehow, live on over all our faves and get his damned castle……..Im probably not wrong about this one….

Sam and Gilly - Their goodbye already seemed pretty final? I hope we see more of them because just leaving them at Winterfell seems a bit open ended and weird considering Sam was like, part of the most MAJOR plot on the show? Maybe hell put on this council or be Lord of Horn Hill with Gilly as his wife, which would a great middle finger to his horrible father.