#Anti-dotthings

[lightofraye]

Hi Cynifer! (And Dot).

Don't know you. Don't want to. I never even heard of you until I got informed of some hate my way. I don't even have you two blocked but you blocked me. Interesting!

So.

Let's address a couple of things.

I don't hate Danneel. I dislike her, because she's vapid, materialistic, unsupportive, and humiliates Jensen on the regular. I have proof of a lot of this. I feel she's a bad wife, and yeah, a bad person. I'm willing to go on the word of a "rando" online over this too, because the rest of the evidence indicates it a lot.

Second, Cynifer, wow--you're also materialistic and unsupportive of Jensen. To quote your very words: "If I married Jensen Ackles I'd probably do nothing but make him babies, buy myself all kinds of expensive clothes and support whatever charities my heart desired."

Don't care about the charity thing but I can almost guarantee you that Danneel really doesn't. She's a performative activist, not an actual one. And wow--Jensen only wanted one baby. Danneel forced him to have two more, essentially. And did a shitty way of informing him as well. Expensive clothes? Why? The price tag doesn't indicate class nor taste. You can find nice stuff at cheaper prices, so the only thing you care about is the label? Pathetic.

And also: Nice dig at Gen there. Yeesh.

You also said: "I just think people who slut shame her and make up horrendous lies about her are fucking assholes who should be punched in the throat."

So that's considered a threat, BTW. Don't even try. And I'm not making up horrendous lies about how she humiliates Jensen, fat-shamed him, and has zero respect for him.

You also said: ""She identifies as a victim of abuse projecting her experiences onto Jensen for clicks."

I wasn't doing it for clicks. I never even planned to talk about Danneel this much; it kinda fell into my lap. And I'm not the only who who noticed all the abuse signs--and those are from people that, as far as I can tell, aren't abuse victims.

Sooo.... STFU.

Also, you being a Cockles shipper insults Jensen's and Danneel's marriage far more than my abuse allegations ever would. I sincerely doubt it's a poly relationship too--Jensen was agreeing that Danneel calls Misha her boyfriend, not saying he also considers Misha his boyfriend.

(I'm not anti-poly either.)

All you have are some cutesy looks and supposed interpretations of Jensen's and Misha's relationship as opposed to actual proof.

I have proof. I have tons of it. From Jensen's own mouth. From Danneel's own mouth and fingers.

Whatever. You do you, but don't make threats and claim I'm projecting or making up lies. I speak truth.

[incarnateirony]

Do you recommend any blogs that treat Dean+Cas as textual? (If you've already answered this, sorry)

I fully admit, I stay in a very limited blog bubble these days with how volatile and out of hand fandom is, because I swear it’s like people are going OUT OF THEIR WAY to make people miserable.

The following people off the top of my head:

@heliodean – in the very least sees bi Dean as canon, I haven’t really asked about Destiel but if they’re applying level social codes, probably.

@thecoffeebrain-blog – barely in fandom anymore, been chased out, but a strong hand in understanding LGBT history, AV medium text, the relevance of institutions and other impacting forces in commercial scripts, intersectional representation issues and more

@doraspn Smolbean that’s just very happy and excitable, doesn’t meta themselves or anything but just a good bean

@ayaisamiraclething supportive, etc

@dotthings used to actually but heads with me on my opinion of textuality and canon to the point friends literally had to separate us and ask us to step out of chats before, but once Good Omens aired and watching how the fandom handled content/reception without a batch of antis, the lightbulb went off and she’s been on it ever since. Straight ally that very much admits she has a lot to learn but made the active effort to watch Celluloid Closet and other LGBT history things once it really came into discussion. Fantastic bean. Good meta that’s very surface level, and I don’t mean that in a bad way, I mean literally it’s just reading the text for what it is instead of playing chase the skittles over things we don’t need to.

@casgirlsam occasional meta, mostly visual meta as gifs and comparisons, kinda stuck in the middle of the targeted shitstorm we’re dealing with lately. could use more support and friends, I’m sure.

@thefirsthogokage doesn’t do much active meta but is in the same bag so again, if you’re just looking for a group of friendlies, they’re an A+ option. Multifandom, so you know, expect to see rando stuff on your dash unless you employ tag blacklisting.

@winchestersingerautorepair fantastic meta mind. After observing each other distantly for a few years we started talking recently and became fantastic friends and engage in things well outside this fandom. Able to understand high key abstract ideas and yell about subtextual hermeticism with me in private atop standing for the general textual stuff. Even if half the time that turns into spewing random words and figuring out how to communicate in Normal People. (RED, MAEVE, RED)

@bluephoenixrises sits in this camp, but just fyi their blog is a bunch of multishipping and stuff, so if you want to ONLY see Destiel or w/e, be prepared to blacklist some tags etc.

@7faerielights does nice, short mini metas. Flash thoughts, easy to digest, just something that might help you realize you aren’t alone in various forms of thought.

@geekout-f-t-w is another great smolbean who does similar stuff to faerielights.

@mxscarredfacade cute little smolbean that’s supportive.

@marianthehawke As above. A multifandom mess... but my multifandom mess. LMAO I love 

—-

There’s some others beyond this, but a few were even targeted out of the fandom, and they aren’t responding in DM right now to my questions on if they want included. And I don’t want to volunteer them for that. And I’m sure there’s a bunch I’m missing tbh, my inbox and lists are a sty after the recent chaos, but these are the ones that 1. popped forward in my brain and 2. are either personally OK with being listed or have been so public about it with me that I don’t feel there’s any point in hiding it for them since the people that would target them already know (hell one had the recent people that target them accidentally follow them for a tick from slipperyfingers lmao)

So that. If anyone else wants to VOLUNTEER THEMSELVES as part of this group, feel free to reblog and like, yell MEEEEEEEEEEE or something, and then you can just check the notes after a while once the post starts moving and see who else you can climb in with.

I’ll say one thing y’all: part of building a safe space is reaching out to your fellows. If you’re nervous about being dogged out of the fandom, reach out to me. We can at least talk in DM. And know that the raging bitch I can be is generally directed in righteous anger, even if that anger flares too much at times, but I will ALWAYS go to bat for you if you’re just trying to elevate and enjoy queer content instead of diminish it. Always.

[orionsangel86]

Can you recommend positive Destiel blogs to follow? Because I'm unfollowing the bitter ones. I don't need their negativity right in front of my salad.

Hey! Okay so below I’ll list some positive blogs off the top of my head who are people I have interacted with recently and who I believe are still positive about Destiel in the show - as in they support the belief that it is endgame. These are all friendly, nice people with happy blogs so definitely check them out:

@charlie-minion (positive meta writer)

@tinkdw (positive meta writer)

@margarittet (positive meta writer)

@postmodernmulticoloredcloak (positive meta writer)

@mittensmorgul (positive meta writer)

@thedogsled (positive meta writer)

@super-sootica (positive meta writer and crack poster extraordinaire)

@godshipsit (positive gif maker, infamous crack video maker, generally show positive awesome human being)

@winchester-reload (spectacular art and v show positive)

@nerdylittleshit (positive meta writer)

@dotthings (recently followed them because their show/destiel positive meta is amazing)

@intelligentshipper (destiel and show positive meta writer and analysis of audience stats - which is fascinating - also posts a lot about anti’s and their stupidity which is hilarious if you don’t let anti negativity get to you, but not for everyone which I am sure she won’t mind me mentioning.)

@nealcassatiel (positive meta writer)

@naruhearts (positive meta writer)

Obviously there are loads more blogs out there that I have not tagged, amazing meta writers and awesome people who I’d love to rec, but I’m not 100% certain that they are destiel endgame positive anymore so don’t wanna get it wrong - and of course if I have misinterpreted any of the above blogs as being endgame positive when they are not, please let me know guys as I don’t wanna make incorrect assumptions.

Enjoy!

[dotthings]

cheerstofandomfamily

  BTW, the anti-destiel fans responding to...

I’d just like to add, that as someone who commented early on, in that post, I was unfortunately a witness to what can only be described as a wolf pack attack style. It was fast, it was malicious, one anti caught the scent and howled for the rest of them. Like, they weren’t even directing comments at me and I felt attacked. So thank you @dotthings and @casgirlsam for presenting reasonable, and not hurtful, points of view

[lightofraye]

Oh for...

Can you stop with it, Dot? And you too, Cynifer?

And also, asking karma to smack people just because they disagree with your ship and fetish? Really?!

Don't presume to know what I think and feel about Jensen based on a few posts (given as just about all negativity has been about his wife and not him). Or about Misha.

We'll like what we like. Stay in your freakin' lane and we'll stay in ours. Christ...

[lightofraye]

What’s the deal with Cynifer?? Why does she hate you?

Hi anon!

You’d… actually have to ask her.

Oh wait, please don’t.

I know why. Her and her flying monkeys seem disgusted by my statements that Danneel is an abuser, as well as my gentle worries over Jensen’s well-being. Apparently, he must be perfect to suit her Cockles’ fantasy, and if he isn’t, then her dreams are lost. Or something.

It seems among Cynifer’s ilk, Dot’s ilk, and the AAs, they don’t like me pointing out all the bad things Danneel has done and said, excusing it under the guise of “That’s just her sense of humor!”

Uhm. No, it isn’t? She’s lied a lot to boot. About her past as a pageant queen (nope, only won a participation trophy, if memory serves), about Ivana Chubbuck, I’m fairly certain she’s lied about other things as well. She was also really shitty in how she broke up with Riley—didn’t tell him, just took her things and moved out without a word. (I know; rumor had it Jensen was also in a relationship, but the timeline states that he might’ve been broken up with Joanna by the time he and Danneel got together. It’s just damned murky.)

Me pointing all that out—me and fellow antis—ended up getting a lot of hate over it. As if we’re not allowed our own interpretations and stances. We’ve been called bullies—can’t be bullies if we’re not sending the stuff we write to Danneel. We’ve been accused of hating Jensen because apparently disliking Danneel means we hate him. (They are two very separate people; it is possible to only like one of a couple in a relationship, people! Happens allllll the time!)

Then there’s the fact I don’t like Misha, Cynifer’s ‘hero’. Even though he’s done some really crappy things. Apparently she’s chosen to overlook those actions, even though one of those actions was practically sexually assaulting Jensen during filming of Supernatural.

I don’t send people over to her to hate. But apparently she’s decided that I should be harassed over and over again. She and Dot have even threatened violence against “people like me”. So nice, right?

[incarnateirony]

You didn't ship Destiel until S13!? That really took me by surprise! In that case, thank you for defending the ship even if you didn't ship it, that's really nice and your meta made it easier to deal with the antis. And welcome to the Destiel side of the force! :)

Yeah, several people -- @dotthings off the top of my head, I really don’t remember who else -- literally witnessed the screaming fall into the dumpster.

Again, I really don’t know if I still consider what I do ~shipping.~ I have no specific demands for how their relationship continues from here, I just acknowledge it within the work. The difference that hit in S13 was welcoming that content instead of guarding myself against it because we got slammed with several consecutive bookends that completed an entire romantic arc and punctuated it with a far more impacting mirror of an endgame that didn’t even have said romantic arc to begin with, in Swan Song, so like??? what am I supposed to do? Just ignore it? Act like I can’t understand what just happened in front of me?

To put some perspective, I’ve been running SPN games for... a while. My most recent one was on a discord server that’s niche, but my prior one was on a giant multifandom server. I covered for Cas to keep his power levels in check to the story balance without like, making the humans irrelevant. My Dean at the time was hardcore shipping trash. His name was Chris, he was a bisexual dude in Chile, psychologist, good dude. But like??? it deadass annoyed me? How up Cas’ ass his writing was? The shippers that came in actually kinda annoyed me with trying to matchmaker them in game??? Like. I saw it, but I guess it’s the old “That’s not what the show is about” (which unlike how fandom whips it around, doesn’t mean it can’t exist at all, it’s the obsessive tunnel visioned focus that pissed me off because it kept railroading scenes)

But despite that, during and before it, I was yeah, defending it. Just because I wasn’t an active ~shipper~ didn’t mean I was cool with people stomping on people for very reasonably seeing the stuff my last post mentioned. I just kinda kept myself from investing because I know this old media song and dance too well and didn’t expect it to break, say, S10 levels. And then 11 happened. And then 12. And then--

Because no matter what this fandom says, Castiel’s alien mystified staring at Dean, while great chemistry in old seasons, does not actually compare to things like frequent lunch dates, need and love yous, mixtapes, Eileen being Sam’s Cas in 15.09 and so on. In the actual, not-head-up-ass-about-old-rewritten-content-meta’ed-15-times-over often fused to really bad hot takes on what people call queer coding. But I could respect that, say, the ramifications of swapping Cas and Anna roles to keep Misha around while Julie was bouncing out and getting uncomfortable naturally landed Cas in the hero’s journey goddess role, ala princess Leia if you will, the distressing warrior nondamsel rebelling against the empire and whatnot. But that doesn’t start or end at star wars, that’s thousands of years of human writing.

So while yes, the show heavily stripped the actual content that would have traditionally structured it romantic, people like seeing that x their chemistry early on-- not crazy.

And I defended it for years /to my wife/ despite my server vexations. On this giant dozens-of-thousands-of-users multifandom server not connected to any core fandom spaces and hosting innumerable fandoms and walks of life, I was the oddball out -- me. As a nonshipper annoyed by the crowd, often having 20-30 people logged into my channel at a time playing everything from early Cain to Benny to TFW to Wayward to *throws dart at board* whatever, of the hundreds of names that drifted through the game in sum (including player rotations, OCs and audience that just came to watch/read like a fic), you know how many antis we had?

Three.

One was my wife. so removing her, two.

Do you know how many shippers there were? 

Yeah neither do I, just, “pretty much all of them.” a few hung in “see it, don’t care, moderately annoyed” like I did. But this idea that the GA is a bunch of het-guzzling bozos that can’t do the same basic math all of you fucking did before you got here, just because some other dead-ass irrelevant ship composed entirely on leftfield interpretations to validate niche fandom ships -- that shit’s so far fucking divorced from goddamn reality.

As for my wife, yes. She was an anti. In fact long before I wandered into fandom social media (I think I actually jumped in around S12 bc I saw Dabb taking over and Bobo getting promoted and was interested in Yockey-- Yockey was the first person I tweeted at), I was on these servers, running these games, having these ARGUMENTS with my wife to be quite honest, because like, look, I get it, Destiel fandom can be weird and needy and over the top but they’re not crazy for what they see out of it. By Carver era it was classic subtext.

But she had followed Winbros for years not realizing it’s literally run by the real world becky and her BFFs that have tasteful POVs like “Misha Collins is cancer” “Dabb is a disease” and whatever else on their personals that proxy through their posts and motivations. She attended it on Facebook, which is THE goddamn conservative magafarm asshole platform and yeah, read a lot of shitty arguments. Yes, she picked up sayings like “it ruins the show”. Yes, she hated it. No, that didn’t mean I felt anyone deserved more than mild frustration for their behaviors at the time just because they were stuck in fanfic-shipping-fiction-over-romanticised-land and not canon-divergent-show-genre-complex-interpersonal-relationships fiction. 

She, too, cracked about the same time I did. I was more receptive sure, I saw it more sure, but after a mix of addressing some personal problems, making an OC that completely changed how her perception filtered Dean and Castiel working together, whatever-- and yes, 12.19->13.5. The night of 13.5, the final shot, as the screen went dark, she stared over her phone and, with tonal distaste, said “Oh. So they’re going there.”

Yes, it’s that fucking obvious. No, she didn’t admit that’s what did her in. Not until the end of the season, when she admitted she had been bullshitting arguments since early season 13 because, literally, and I quote, “otherwise Min wins.” -- which, if that comes by way of my own wife, I can only stare into the fandom camera at other people that have turned this show into a decade long money sink and have been divorced from the actual canon path for like minimum 3 years, maybe 6, yelling about it being wrong all the time, etc. Because on the internet, people convince themselves they have ownership and power, that their opinion of what the piece should be overrides even the creators, et cetera. Yeah. There’s a lot of disingenuous horse shit.

TLDR my wife fell into the dumpster and, as the flag of the end of our weird spats, and a birthday present, I made her this, since she IDs as Dean (OLD vid, has hiccup issues newer ones don’t)

So, yup, dat me.

To this day I still don’t read fanfics or browse fanart or any of that. I’ve never cared about that face of the fandom. I’ve never cared about making up rando ships, I’ve never cared about exactly how any given relationship plays itself out, I just enjoy the ride and address it as it does indeed play out. Most shipping culture still pisses me the fuck off with its dialogue, as I’ve made very clear. But because I’m acknowledging the text instead of denying what keeps happening more centrally and critically every year on screen, I’d be called a shipper. Because I’m tired of watching people spew logic even most children could pick apart in an endless roundabout of negativity, because I have no tolerance for absolute horse shit and fandom whining so I just lay out counters to bad talking points, I’d be called a shipper.

But 13.5ish is when I finally let myself start emotionally receiving the content rather than barring it off in a distant wall of exhausted old gay that knows their media too well. Why? Because it already completed and went above and beyond every element of the original way they painted the original goddamn endgame and I guess because I won’t set unfair bars against queer relationships and set them at Extra Hard Difficulty, I’m a shipper. IDK. This fandom fucking exhausts me. Fandom culture in general exhausts me.