#As much as I'm pro 'have more stories where sex or romance are literally NOT involved at all in any capacity since it's already oversaturate

[in-newjersey]

I am going to once more wax on my Be More Chill and related opinions on this blog because hey that's what it's for, let's deep dive into Two Player Game with a side of LGBT history and queer readings of coming of age media

so I was thinking a lot about characterization/acting thoughts for Two Player Game specifically approaching it defining character motives/emotions for the number (narrowing down what a character wants is one of the most simple tenets of acting, of course)

and I think a key single summary for each character: this (hanging out and playing video games together) is Michael's favorite thing in the whole world, but it only used to be Jeremy's favorite thing in the world

not that he still doesn't love it/love Michael, it's just (in a not-pro-SQUIP-way of saying it) a tie to a previous "version" of himself that he feels like he's outgrown, or at least wants to add to by "moving to the next level"

and that doesn't even mean leaving Michael behind necessarily, we see pretty clearly that his ideal future is one where Michael grows and is "cool" with him. He wants Michael to "grow up" too, and that loosely translates to "being popular" and of course, the litmus test for that, as established by this and many other high school stories, is having a girlfriend/sex/etc

...and Michael knows this. Whether you interpret him as having feelings for Jeremy or not (personally I think it's more complicated than simply pining, more that he's going to Realize Things (maybe) in a couple years and he might someday look back at the friend breakup/codependency and realize "huh that probably wasn't a heterosexual reaction), I think it's a key thing about him that there's a lot of love mingled with a sort of strange desire to emulate him (thinking of the line from the play "I don't resent you, I'm jealous you try!"), but he literally just....doesn't get it. He likes how things are now, so when Jeremy voices that he wants things to change, his solution is reminding him how much fun they've always had together and close they are. There's nothing wrong with that inherently! He's as much going through complex life changes as Jeremy is, and those can be messy and confusing without being purposely hurtful - but that sort of attachment at the same time I think is the kernel of Jeremy's frustration with him. He loves Michael a lot as well, but he sees Michael's sort of pride in staying how he is as ignoring his bids for attention to his issues. That translates, sometimes, into feeling like Michael can be a different kind of stuck up or thinking he's superior because he doesn't care about the things Jeremy wants, or at least doesn't want the same ones and seems OK with that.

And even if he doesn't quite articulate it, Michael knows that Jeremy sort of feels like this, like he longs for more, and that sort of hurts, but it is what it is. So he tries to ignore it, supporting Jeremy as much as he can, but wanting to hang onto him too ("I like to think when you're popular, you'll owe me one")

This is also, I think, the root of why Jeremy was able to understand the SQUIP's logic that to move on, he had to leave Michael behind. He didn't like it, exactly, but the SQUIP was inside his head - it knew about these frustrations and knew that it could push those buttons to distance him from the main threat to the SQUIP's desire to self propagate (because given access to Jeremy's memories would have told the SQUIP that "oh wait my new host literally has a friend with easy access to the one chemical that kills me, better nip that in the bud"). Like the SQUIP gets humanized a lot, but just looking at the text, it's ultimately just an evil AI whose goal right from the start is to spread to as many hosts as possible. Not even exactly evil, per se, that's just how it works. It's like a virus.

But back to the summarized dynamic/character motivations to think about regarding Two Player Game, I think this is sort of an interesting dynamic we often see with close-paired male friend protagonists in coming of age stories: you have one character (often the main one) who is "maturing" faster, somewhat, who's interested in change and usually that means romance with girls, while the second one is somewhat "less" mature and that usually represents things staying the same, just the two of them

(Something Wicked This Way Comes was the other really obvious example that I was thinking of here, though in that situation the protagonist is Will, who is a little less eager to grow up)

I also think there's a tendency in fan interpretations to characterize that secondary friend character as romantically-attracted to his best friend and there's not necessarily anything wrong with that either, but at the same time I think it's more of an interesting common thread in how trios of young characters get portrayed. This is not to say the "best friend" can't be queer - they tend to get queer coded even unintentionally, or at least given less traditionally-masculine traits and/or quirkier interests and personality features while simultaneously being pretty easily likeable (all easy to interpret as queer especially by queer fans)

Sidenote that I'm not sure the scope of this post really can address, but the Victorian/post-Victorian characterization (because as much as it sucks, we still live in the shadow of Victorian ideas about the world in many terrible ways at least in the Anglophonic world) as same-sex attraction especially between adolescent boys as something somehow "juvenile" might be relevant here, like pre-Oscar Wilde there was a general zeitgeist opinion that, largely due to the staunchly sex-segregated nature of schooling in childhood right up through college, that same-sex feelings and sexual behaviors were natural and common - everyone does it in school, because you're in a single-sex environment - but it's only acceptable up to a certain age - once you reached adulthood and had social access to the opposite sex, then it was expected that things would just straighten out. One of the key things that Wilde was considered so unnatural and offensive for was claiming that genuine love was possible between men, not just youthful messing around and experimenting while there were no girls around. Wilde had many of his own flaws of course, but his trials were so heavily publicized that many of the stereotypes about queer men started pretty clearly right there

(and this is nothing to do with Be More Chill, just an accessory thought, but I think that has something to do - this is not excusing it, just explaining it - with the idolization of youth, especially like late-teens/early 20s youth, being super prevalent in Victorian queer men's erotic writing and fascination; it was the last period of life where those kinds of relationships were commonly accessible and accepted, but fleeting, so it creates a sense that the experience of same-sex attraction is some sort of arrested development, a failure to "grow up" in the way social pressure expects)

Obviously this is no longer the case, since we've had a good 100 years of social trends and shifts regarding gender and sex and the ways that those things intersect regarding "growing up," but while discussing or noticing a trend of a very close male friendship representing immaturity vs pursuing a female love interest as a sign of maturity (at least in male-protagonist coming of age stories), it seems like those threads might have something to do with each other in a broader cultural context

anyway this is basically me thinking through "ok in a production of BMC, what kind of direction might help get some nuance into a rather cheesy number that we can really set up the characterization and relationship in all its facets"

[mermaidsirennikita]

I really don't understand the sex scene discourse. Doesn’t it depend on the scene whether it’s good? On the genre whether it’s appropriate? On the story whether it’s necessary? I wouldn't complain about graphic violence in horror or even action movies so why are people complaining about sex scenes in romance and dramas? We should expect graphic sex in shows like Bridgerton but maybe teen dramas should scale it back. This conversation requires much more nuance then it's currently getting.

The thing is that I don't think the vast majority of people who are pro-sex scene are advocating for sex scenes to be in inappropriate places, like teen dramas for example (though I would acknowledge that there's nuance to be had; teens do and will always have sex, and if adults are playing the teens and the scenes are handled responsibly, I think there's a conversation to visit). They're advocating for sex scenes to be.

To be very real, I think that a lot of the anti-sex scene discourse comes from a place of not only prudishness, but pretentiousness. There's the idea that there's nothing intellectual or emotionally rich to be had in a sex scene, which simply isn't true (and this idea flies in the face of literal centuries of art depicting sex to tell stories, to offer symbolism, to illustrate life, well before film and television existed).

Also... It's okay if you just like to watch sex scenes because they're hot. Nine times out of ten, if you're getting off to a simulated sex scene, you are getting off to something that has been created more ethically than pornography. As many people who are anti-sex scene are also anti-porn (which I'm personally not--porn is a difficult beast, but it's not going away ever) I'm a little confused. I have to believe that it's coming from an anti-sex perspective, not an "ethical" perspective in this case, because I also don't see them promoting erotica, which hurts essentially no one.

And while it is certainly true that sex scenes can and have been filmed irresponsibly and unethically, the solution is not to get rid of sex scenes, but to ensure that they are done responsibly. I think good intimacy coordinators are important; but honestly, so is listening to the actors. The House of Gucci sex scene, as a recent example, is so over the top and ridiculous and I LOVE IT, and it sounds like Ridley had the actors do a lot of the blocking themselves. They ended up with a product that got people talking (which is always the point when you're making anything in a movie of that scale, lol) and it sounds like everyone felt safe and comfortable.

But I really don't think that a lot of people who don't like sex scenes have that issue, to be honest. They're not worried about how the actors felt, or how it was handled, or what it promotes. They're worried about their viewing experience, because to be honest, we're actually heading (at least in the U.S., where I am; I can't speak for anywhere else) towards a society that is less comfortable with sex. I'd blame a lot of this on the political shift towards conservativism, on a large scale, as conservative parties tend to be more prudish. To be frank, though, I see a lot of feminists disavowing the sexual revolution because it went too far~... Which, yeah, it did in some places. But the response is not to disavow sex and the depiction of sex; you don't swing all the way in the opposite direction. A course correction is a shift, not a swerve.

And you don't have to be into sex--I would never tell someone who isn't into sex to be into sex. If you want to watch something without sex, trust me, there's a lot of material out there. And if you want to watch something that does have sex in it, fast forward or do what I did when I was watching The Tudors with my parents as a teen and didn't want to watch Jonathan Rhys Myers drill Natalie Dormer in their presence: take that time as an opportunity to grab a snack. I promise you won't suffer. And if that's not possible because the sex is integral to the story.... Well, then maybe that particular piece of media isn't for you. Many pieces of media are not for me. Fiction should not and can't be one size fits all. Sorry!

[lizacstuff]

Liza that 3rd fragman 👀 "if I was born a 100 times I'd fall in love with you everytime" Eda saying this is their last obstacle and nothing can separate them, serkan's "I'll be right back, close your eyes I'm here" If this isn't all a red flag for shits about to hit the fan then I don't know what is LOL (but also how cute to Edser look and them telling each other they love each other very much 😭😭😭)

That fragman is both the SWEETEST and the MOST OMINOUS thing I’ve ever seen. ALL AT ONCE.  

Friends... we’re gonna go through some things.  That being said, everything is going to be great. These writers have been solid so far, and I have faith they have come up with something really interesting to increase the longevity of this show. And I don’t know about you, but I’m prepared to go through some things if it means keeping Eda and Serkan for longer.  (I heart them)

This show is about Eda and Serkan and their love story, at it’s core it’s a comedy, it will all lead to happy things, but... yeah, buckle up! 

I have a lot of asks both about the fragman and last ep, so I’m going to answer a bunch under the cut. 

Anonymous said: The fandom theories about episode 28 have gotten so wild that I literally think the most shocking thing would be if they actually got married and were not separated (emotionally or physically). What if the earlier painful episodes were to make us believe that things couldn't possibly go right in 28 and it's a reverse psychology trick?

You could be right!  I like your thinking. I checked on twitter and I had to back away slowly. The juvenile temper tantrums were too much for me today.  

Look, I think it’s clear something big is coming. It has to, there has to be something that shakes up the show. Some of the theories are more upsetting and catastrophic than others, but the writers won’t do anything that dings either character or their love for one another.  Whatever happens will showcase the connection between these two and the chemistry between the actors, that’s the point of everything, and anything that does those things is gonna be a-okay with me. 

@jan31​ Hi Liza. Do you think we are going to see the wedding in 28 or they will leave it on a cliffhanger for next week. Lots of theories going round mainly cos of Neslihan saying new dimensions coming in episode 29, which could just mean married life etc. I have seen suggestions of memory loss, it's all a dream since episode one. I would personally love Eda to wake up like in episode one but for it to be a total turn around and she is the boss and Serkan the employee. Eda being robot yildiz appeals to me!!! I know it will never happen but leave me here with my dreams!!

I started the day at 90% sure they’ll be married in 28/29, but now I’m down to like 30% that they’ll get married in these episodes. I really, really want them to get married before whatever happens happens, because every scenario I can think of for this reset or starting again, seems like it would be better if they were married.  

However, the shooting spoilers from today, make me question that. Namely the videos where Hande appears to still be wearing the ring on her right hand. We shall see, that could be for many reasons. 

Honestly, though, I wouldn’t hate a memory loss storyline. Seeing one of them (and Serkan’s line in the trailer makes it seem like it might be him) lose their memory and have to fall in love all over again? There are worse fates for a shipper than getting to experience that all again but in a different way.  

Anonymous said: Your response to the fandom drama anon was so good, it's exactly how I feel. While I don't know what the old posts that were like are (that's shady as fuck) I did see all the other drama go down and wow. The actresses def need to stay in their lane and some of the fans, hoooo boy, it's obvious they're young based off their reactions alone. Had to unfollow some people once I realized what they were like. Also some of the IRL shipping reminded me of col*fer stuff, reading into everything and blowing it out of proportion (which then gets picked up by paps....). But you're right in that at least the show related drama is tame compared to OUAT. But still, people being too careless even while they know the paps see everything and harass Kerem and hande (omg did you see the video of hande the other day stopped in the van and she looked so overwhelmed 😔)

You’re referencing this post here about yesterday’s drama. 

Today Neslihan made it worse by addressing everything and claiming she didn’t like all those Hande-bashing posts because... wait for it... she was HACKED. Oy. Hackers got in and went back two years to like gross posts about Hande? Sure, Jan. While I don’t believe that for a second, I guess that at least gives her cover with Hande so they can all pretend it’s true and move on so it’s not awkward on set.  But, yikes, she needs to consult a publicist, she took a narrative that was circulating in certain circles in fandom and made sure all her followers were aware. Not very savvy. 

As for the paps coming after Hande, yes I did see her in the car, she did look overwhelmed. Back off vultures!!! That’s why I think Kerem sometimes throws himself to the wolves so that doesn’t happen. She always handles them like a pro, but you can tell she’d rather be anywhere else on earth than talking to them. 

The pap stuff is worse than I’ve seen before, they’re like vultures circling for any conjecture (sometimes made up out of thin air) they can turn into a question and blame fans. OUAT actors dealt with nothing like this. Also I can’t believe they never ask about the show. Like after last week? They could legit ask about the sex scene which probably would have given them some angle on the actors that they wanted, (especially since it was too hot for Turkish TV) but they let that pass them by, and instead asked the same questions about being together that they never answer. Dumbasses. They are not only awful people, they are awful at their jobs. 

In Van, the paps pay off crew members for info, they always know more than fans. Also I don’t remember stars of my shows getting this level of tabloid attention before. Except for on Riverdale, Lili and Cole generated that level of interest, and while I didn’t pay terribly close attention to them, I feel like they rarely talked to the paps, were just photographed. Also I don’t suspected the CW of calling the paps on them, but I suspect either the network or production company of sometimes calling them on Hande and Kerem. 

Anonymous said: Do you think it’s weird that they didn’t touch the kidnapping at all in either trailer? They might not have filmed it in time for the 1st one but certainly the 2nd. And I’m definitely not complaining about the ones we got because its like a fairytale but the kidnapping was the cliffhanger...? 🧐 I think they should’ve just left the princes storyline at “he went back to his country” but then they didn’t so......

If they’d left his story at just going back to his country, then the Prince really wouldn’t have served his purpose. He was brought on to cause some sort of trouble, so they probably need him to cause the trouble before he goes, lets hope it ends with this kidnapping!

And to answer your question, yes, I do think it’s weird that neither trailer touched on it. On any other show I’d think it was a huge red flag, but on this show maybe not as much because  a) there’s obviously a lot of romance in this episode, it’s not crazy that they are focusing on that to draw people in with the promos  b) this show likes to do cliffhangers that end up being no big deal, that happens a lot.  

Who knows it could turn out to be a big deal that shapes the rest of the episode in some unexpected way (Eda’s captured the whole episode and she’s dreaming about wedding prep, or... who knows) but I think it’s more likely that they resolve in the first 5-10 minutes and then move on.  Since we know from the summary (not that I trust those) that Serkan goes on the bachelor weekend, it feels like the Prince is taken care of prior to that. I don’t think he’d leave her alone for a second if there was a chance the Prince was still a threat. Perhaps Babaanne is pissed he tried to kidnap Eda and tells them she’ll handle it herself???

Anonymous said: Semiha not being in the promo is highkey suspicious. The actress is promoting the episode lol. She's about to Evil Queen this wedding ceremony but you know what, I'm fine with whatever she has planned if they end up married at the end of the day. What's funny is that since a lot of fans these days will assume that there will be shocking negative plot twists, not actually having one here would be a plot twist so I hope the writers keep them together for whatever's next haha

You’re not wrong, at this point, having this wedding take place would be a shocking twist for all of us!  As for Semiha... hmmm... it will be interesting to see what her reaction is to Eda being kidnapped by her pick of suitor. Serkan Bolat might be the son of the man indirectly responsible for her parents death, but he would never hurt her. Take note, Grandbag!  

Anonymous said: Do you mind sharing your speculative scenarios?

After the trailer today, I don’t know if I can even remember some of them. 

Memory loss

Grandma forces Serkan to choose between Eda and his company/wealth,  he chooses Eda and they start over from scratch with nothing

Time jump

AU starting over, showing a different path they might have taken together

Dream

These actors playing different characters in a new story

I don’t think the last three are likely, but they did spring to mind after some of Neslihan’s teases. 

Anonymous said: So this show doesn't get like fantastic ratings (it actually seems to be on the lower end compared to all other dizis airing) but the social media engagement is off the charts. Why is that?!? Is the show just extraordinarily popular internationally? or that this is a "shipping" show? I'm floored by the numbers - its like no other show/fandom is even trying

The ratings were terrific during the summer. But to your point, it has a huge fandom both in Turkey and internationally, but it’s worth noting that most of those charts you see where it beats every other show in every imaginable social metric is just for Turkey.  

It’s one of those lightning in a bottle situations where you get the right property and the right actors together at the right time and magic happens.  And, for sure, the number one reason is the shipping. Shipping drives fandom engagement, and a fantastic ship with a juicy, fun, tropey love story is what this show offers. It also offers up two extremely attractive, talented, likeable leads with off-the-charts chemistry (plus the added speculation about an off-camera relationship that has intrigued more than a few fans, tabloids and gossip sites and fueled interest) who have done a good job of building the fanbase through their social media engagement. Plus the timing is part of it as well. I don’t know about you, but this show hit the spot during this pandemic and the horror of 2020. We all needed this escape. 

Anonymous said:Do you think something happened in the writers room after the backlash of 25 and fan disappointment after Ayse's announcement? I feel like a switch flipped and now we're in fanficland with how much good content we've gotten in these last two episodes. Like I thought maybe they should wrap up the series soon before the characters got completely off the tracks but they may be finding their groove now and I'm interested to see what their next twist is after they can write out Balca/Seymen.

I don’t know about a switch flip, this show has been fanfic land since the first episode!  The tropes! That is how I described it to multiple people when I first started watching: an AU fanfic come to life.

As for the writing changes, no, I don’t think backlash after 25 affected 26 or 27, because 26 was already 90% shot, and 27 already written. However, I assume they themselves could tell that 25 got just too dark and had strayed pretty far from the DNA of the series. While I didn’t think it was bad, it was not fun to watch and this show ought to be fun to watch. 

Let’s hope, however, that the backlash affects future episodes in that they know what works... and what doesn’t.  The last two episodes definitely felt reminiscent of the first batch of episodes. Light, funny, romantic. If they can keep that tone... I’ll be thrilled.

Anonymous said: i didn't realize how much i missed "together" edser until watching 27.. it's been so long since they were "officially" together and we also had such few episodes of it.. ppl have been comparing it to 12 and while in some ways i agree, edser are always so different here than they were there. 12 was them navigating their new relationship.. they were more shy and finding their footing.. here they are very much established, as they should be after knowing their love for so long in comparison to 12!

Yes, it was lovely. You know I’ve preached a lot about how even though Eda and Serkan were broken up, they’ve still been together all this time. And it’s true, but there is something about them truly being together that is magical. We never got enough of that the first time around (a writing mistake in my opinion) and they’re so good together it’s lovely to watch. 

Anonymous said: Serkan not asking for help from Balca when asking his team for help with the marriage gifts preparations and refusing her offer of help when she asked made me so happy. Good job Serkan! He's learning! She's not trustworthy!

Yes, that was a good moment. And he was eyeing her very warily when she offered. The thing I don’t understand is how has no one caught on that she’s working with Babaanne? That entire office is filled with nosy people, has no one remarked on the number of times Balca has gone up to the office or they’ve disappeared for lunch at the same time? Come on Leyla! Come on Melo! Notice these things!  

Anonymous said: Fingers crossed that we finally make progress towards getting rid of Seiman & Balca now that all the girls were drugged and Eda was put in the car in the last episode. Unless Seiman has a change of heart and takes Eda back inside before anyone wakes & the guys get there then the show has to address it. Although I do not think Balca is going to back down unless Serkan straight up tells her he has zero interest in her and never will. Totally fine if that happens in the next episode.

Will Balca backdown even if she’s humiliated like that? She’s so delusional I’m not sure. What I am sure is that she’s dangerous. This came in before we saw the other two fragmans that have no mention of the kidnapping. Hard to picture how that is so easily resolved. Unless she frees herself (which seems unlikely in her groggy state) or maybe Melo’s future boyfriend is able to stop it before they get far?  Or I don’t know. I just know that I want to see Serkan lose his mind and all the other characters see Serkan lose his mind and then I want it to be over. LOL.

Anonymous said: As much as I am loving everything Edser, I cannot wait for Seiman, Balca and Grandma to be gone. And I am even more annoyed to think that the show might try to redeem all 3 characters. All 3 of them are truly awful people and no need to waste air time trying to make the audience think any different. Just my opinion...🤷🏻‍♀️. Show please finally expose those 3 for the psychos they are and get rid of them.

Bye bitches!  I don’t think there’s any redemption for Balca and Seiman. They both have poisoned/dosed people, hard to come back from that.  And there is no need to redeem them because neither is compelling enough to be a long-term character. But maybe Granny, we probably will see a redemption arc for her. 

Anonymous said: i know you were worried a few weeks ago that with ayse leaving as writer, we probably wouldn't have the same sort of comedy as previous episodes... but istg the whole kiz isteme scene, especially with chef alex, had me almost crying with laughter. especially when serkan off the cuff just goes "well if that's an option..." to everyone misunderstanding alex "wanting" ayfer for 2 nights and then eda ready to beat him with the flowers he bought her... comedic gold lmao.

SO GOOD! I was thrilled to see that sort of comedy, the sort of comedy we’d come to expect, from these writers. I think it bodes very well indeed!  

That scene was amazing. I know Neslihan said that much of it was improvised. Probably that line from Serkan (since Serkan is SO out-of-his-mind in love I’m not sure he could even joke about having Eda only two nights a week! LOL) was improv from Kerem, and Aydan asking about the other nights, and Seyfi bringing up the weekend. And Eda’s very Hande-esque “Ser-KAN.” 

I just love rewatching that scene and checking out everyone who is breaking character and just losing it. Cagri most of all. He’s blurred aback there but you can see Ferit spends the whole time laughing or trying to stifle a laugh. Reminds me of Cagri in the scene in 18 when they’re watching the security footage he was losing it in that scene as well. 

Anonymous said: i'm scared - I think they are really about to give us all of these happy EdSer scenes only to have something happen RIGHT before the wedding ceremony due to Babaanne. Based on the last episode, I don't think there's any chance of a breakup (knock on wood) but what if Serkan gets arrested, goes to jail for 2 years, and we get a time jump?

This was sent before the last two teasers, so yes I think something is gonna happen. We shall see!  I don’t really think Serkan going to jail for 2 years is in the cards, at least I hope not!  Besides if Babaanne did that she would have no hopes of ever reconciling with Eda, so that seems unlikely she’d follow through and leave him there for so long a time. 

Anonymous said: With the last week's sex scene, they did a lot of fade outs but the scene was basically still there so it wasn't much wasted effort for the actors. But for what they're teasing in episode 28 - idk how they can get away with showing them in the shower at all if Serkan lifting Eda with her clothes on had required blurring? Is Eda dropping her robe even pushing it? It's intriguing indeed.

Great questions. We’re 36 hours from finding out (well I'm longer than that because I wait for the English subs, hee hee) All I know is I want to see these scenes.. one way or another! 

[evamohns]

For me the problem is not William's character as such. He's an asshole and shows need these kind of characters. What I'll never support though is the fact that he pressured Noora into a relationship even though she was absolutely not into in from the beginning and this was framed as something "romantic". I'm sorry, but it was not. I don't know what Julie wanted us to take away from that clichee "romance": That girls need to be pressured to realise they maybe could like someone? ... (1/?)

That being a creeperand emotionally maniulative is romantic? That girls who do not give in arestupid? That it’s totally ok for guys to not take no for an answer? Thatblackmail is a legit way of making girls yours? Also William is portrayed assomeone who is always right, just misunderstood. He doesn’t need to own up tohis mistakes because excuses are made for him. This makes it seem like Noorawas wrong in realising he is an asshole. He was, and is (not only to Noora, butto Vilde and all the other girls), but the way their relationship is shownmakes it seem like the man always knows best and has the right to get the girlhe wants – no matter what she thinks. Julie made a choice in making William anasshole. She also made a choice to romanticise it. So for me Noorhelm and allit stands for is super problematic.

OKAY. Buckle up kids, this is gonna take awhile.

First off:

William never pressured her. Not onesingle time. But more on that later.

Vilde and William. Was. A. One. Sided.Relationship. Vilde materialised and narrated a whole scenario in her head thatwas not happening. They were attracted to each other, they slept together, endof story. The audience was never given any indication that William wanted anythingmore, he didn’t lead her on after the fact, I’m guessing that in William’smind, they both got what they wanted and that’s that; but then here’s this girlcrawling at his feet that he has no romantic interest in, and the onlyplausible way he sees to free himself and her, is to stomp out any residualfeelings. Which he does, brutally.

But before we get hyped up aboutthe following scene, I just want to mention something I’ve talked about before:if it was William following around Vilde, obsessing over her, finding any opportunityto be around her when it has been clearly shown that she ahs no interest in himromantically, there would be no misconceptions and calling Vilde manipulative, abitch, or any of the like. People would be crucifying William for stalking orwhatnot, and praising Vilde for her wit and crushing of a pathetic first year.Instead they choose to ignore that fact that William never made any promises toVilde, and didn’t owe her anything afterward, and vice versa.

But getting back on track, William’sfirst advance was after Noora belittled him in front of the group (rightfully so),and he was immediately brushed off, though the edit still chooses to show Nooralingering on William’s retreating figure, implying interest and obviously foreshadowing.After this, he doesn’t speak to Noora or show any other interest in her untilthe staircase scene (‘you’re so fucking beautiful’). And, anon, if you can findanyone, anti- or pro- who honestly, 100% believes that Noora was not positivelyaffected by William in this moment, I’ll be legitimately shocked. That scenewas flirting 101, and no one can say otherwise.

Cut to the xmas party scene, wherewe later find out that William has agreed to a date with Vilde in order toultimately be closer to Noora.  Yes, thiswas a shitty thing to do, but as soon as Noora realises what he was doing, sheasks him to stop and he does on the condition of one date. Not a relationship,not sex, just an hour with her, talking, to which she accepts. He picks her up,brings her a blanket and cocoa and remains polite, recognises she doesn’t necessarilywant to be there and so keeps his distance, tries to impress her, and offers todrive Noora home after cutting the increasingly positive date short.

The party at William’s house isthem getting to know each other, exploring their attraction, having fun,PLAYING w EACH OTHER, and William being relatively reserved (the stripping partdoes make me roll my eyes IF I’M BEING HONEST lmao). And it’s here that we seeNoora take the first real step forward into their relationship – lying andsaying that she has to stay over, and once this info is outed, William has afoot in the door, and he knows it. Anyways, fast forwarding through the cabinep and we get to the Syria party. A party that was designed to raise money solelyfor the Penetrator’s buss,  but afterinviting Noora and getting thoroughly confused by her reasoning for not wantingto go, decides to include the refugee cause to the funds raised, all so Noora MAYshow up.

Okay, this is where I start to getheated, because people always seem to forget about this motherfucking scene.Noora is being extremely difficult and stubborn and, to be honest, rude towardhim, and he asks her point blank if she likes him, and tells her that that willbe it if she doesn’t. He’ll stop and leave her be. He. Will. Stop. And. Leave. Her.Alone. If. She. So. Chooses. And she says what she says, and William leavesimmediately. Noora has to sprint and catch him, and SHE KISSES HIM. She initiateseverything, William was ready to stop and give up. It’s Noora who STARTS THERELATIONSHIP.

What part of all that is emotionallymanipulative? Oh, nothing? You don’t say.

Alright, now to the drama, andwhere I can see some people misconstruing everything. Nico enters andeverything basically goes to hell. William is trying to protect Noora from his brother,but Noora doesn’t understand why until after everything happens many episodeslater. So, we have William adamantly trying to keep Noora away from his brother,but in a textbook case of ‘Why Communication is Important in Relationships’, bothof them omit information that would turn out to be vital and would have stoppedpractically everything in eps 7-11 from happening, they take that break. And it’sin these eps, where they have little to no communication, Noora gets drugged/drunk,and wakes up with Nico, and basically has PTSD from it, that William reallysteps up, even though he doesn’t know what’s happening, why his girlfriend isspacing out and having panic attacks. He soothes her, her calms her down, helets her get the sleep she desperately needed, he writes her goddamn paper for her,he doesn’t invade her privacy and snoop on her computer, he stays with her forfifteen hours straight and meanwhile organises everything about the Norway Daything with Eva, Vilde, Sana, and Chris on Noora’s behalf.

And then, comes the fucking text.William, after being told they were on a break, which he accepted, after makingup, after being shut out again immediately, after Noora breaking down, is senta photo (or was it a text – I can’t remember), of Noora with his brother, thismonster he tried so damn hard to keep Noora way from. And Noora can’t give hima straight answer when he confronts her, because she really doesn’t know atthis point. And, he doesn’t lash out or become aBuSiVe, he walks away. Hejust, walks away. He doesn’t get aggressive, he doesn’t yell, he literally justwalks the fuck away.

Noora finds out Nico is a piece ofshit, gets more insight on William, realises she did fuck up, realises thatWilliam was only trying to protect her from Nico. While he’s still extremely angryat her, when she confronts him in the hallway, he again remains silent anddoesn’t lash out at her. She says what she needed to and he listens, and agreesto meet her for their talk.

The talk happens, they make up, andafter everything, William goes and turns himself in for the bottle smashing becauseof everything Noora has told him and taught him.

I’m sure I’m forgetting something Iwanted to say, but yeah, there’s that. Noora was pretty much in control theentire time they were actually together. She was controlling who they told,where they were seen, the break was her idea, and she was the one to seek outWilliam and make up with him. Noora was head over heels in love with him, andhe for her, and if there is any flaw in their relationship in s2, it’s fuckingcommunication with a capital C, not abuse, not manipulation, but fuckingcommunication. If they had just said everything they needed to say, at anypoint before episode 7, the entire second half of the season would not havehappened, but that’s none of my business.

Okay, so quickly over season 3 and4: Noora after knowing about Nico, William’s sister, his parent’s, and his fearof abandonment, ups and leaves him without telling him about it, without eventalking to him out it, and again, he remains silent – he doesn’t lash out, herdoesn’t hurt her in any way, he thinks that that is what she wanted, truly, andso he lets her go. When Sana sends that email, he drops EVERYTHING and comesback home to her. So emotionally manipulative, I know, wow.

Anyway, just some rounding off someof your points:

William never pressured her into sex. Afterrealising she was very serious about not wanting sex, he is the one stoppingthem from going further (revue room, clumsy scene, bench top kitchen scene, 2x12bed scene), and yeah he probably shouldn’t have said ‘I should probably ask ifyou’re ready, but I don’t care’, but if we are believing that Noora literally textedhim ‘I want to fuck you’, there doesn’t leave much room for misinterpretation.

When he was told no, he stayed away. The Justin Bieberscene: she says no, he leaves. She says she doesn’t like him: he leaves. She saysshe’s not ready for sex: he complies with that request and stops Noora whenevershe got a bit too heavy handed. She asks for a break: he agrees without a realfight, even though he knows it’s not what’s best for the both of them.

Blackmailing is wrong, he shouldn’t have donethat. But I don’t think it was with the exact intent of MAKING Noora HIS!!!!!!,for fucks sake.

The man always knows best: I honestly don’t knowwhere you’re going with this point. Whenever it’s shown that either of themthink they know best, it’s shown that they both are wrong, and/or shouldn’thave thought that way. See, lack of communication, Noora lying about whathappened for so long, William not telling her about the fight, the whole argumentabout the fight and the break, Noora lying and saying she has no feelings forhim in 1x05, etc.

William not owning up to his mistakes: Whatmistakes did he make exactly? The blackmail for a date: solved. Lying aboutNico: had valid reasons to. Being a dick: every other character on this show isan asshole, at one point or consistently, it seems to be a running characterflaw – none of them are just as upfront about it as William. Being abusive: heisn’t. Being emotionally manipulative: he isn’t.

So there, that’s my takeaway of William’s character andtheir relationship, and from now on, anytime I get an ask like the ridiculousone above, even after all this time, and after my opinions on this topic havebeen well an truly been put through the wringer, I am referring everyone tothis post. So one last time: no one is ever going to change my mindset, sendingin messages like these will only fuel me to write more about why William isactually one of the most compelling characters on the show, why his and Noora’srelationship is an incredible journey of self-discovery, and why William shouldnot be singled out for being A KID, just like the rest of the them, for beingunreserved about who he is, and for loving the fuck out of Noora Amalie Saetre.