#Dorothy Tennov

[mary-maud]

When writers were not vague, they tended to contradict each other, disputing even the basic nature of love. Was it an emotion, an attitude, a sentiment, a personality type, a neurotic manifestation, a way of looking at the world, a means of emotional manipulation, a sublime passion, a peak experience, a religion, a desire, a mental state, a perversion of thought, a prepossession, a biological urge, a type of mystical experience, a weakness of the will, an obsession, an aesthetic reaction, a sacred state, a universal thirst, a glimpse of heaven?

Dorothy Tennov, Love and Limerence

[stem-sloop]

"It's a basic policy. If anyone interests me more than casually, I stop it right there by avoiding him. I stay away from any place I think he might be. I've been playing it that way for a few years now, and so far it's worked. I had what you call 'limerence' once, and for me once was quite enough. I never want to go through that again."

i might just adopt this strategy foreal

[lillyviarabbit]

It sucks that the best way to help someone, sometimes, is to leave them. I think trying to stay friends and continue being connected mightve hurt them more than anything

[hyperfixationstation128]

I'm sure this has been said before, but I'm of the opinion that Gale didn't love Mystra. Not really, anyway.

"But, Hyper!" You cry, "He tells the player flat out that he was in love with her! What are you talking about?"

Well, allow me to shed a little light on what it is I mean.

It's pretty much unanimously agreed within the fandom that Gale is Autistic, which I find awesome. He's such a great source of representation for those of us who've been through similar experiences and relate to his personality. Those of us with Autism know the frustration of being portrayed as "the weird kid", "the manic pixie dream girl" or even as non-verbal people with a propensity towards violence with our meltdowns. Fun fact: not every person with Autism has "violent meltdowns", some of us go through what's called a shutdown, where we become non-verbal, secluded and kinda "stop working".

"Okay, okay, that's cool and all, but what do you mean by Gale didn't love Mystra?"

I applaud your enthusiasm and am going to explain now. As someone with Autism, someone who's been researching the topic for years, and someone with immediate family members who are on vastly different sides of the spectrum, I can say with about 95% confidence that Gale did not love Mystra... not for real, anyway. He had what is called "Limerence".

Well, why don't we turn to the internet to look up the definition of the word. "Limerence is a psychological state characterized by an intense, all-consuming romantic infatuation. It is an involuntary cognitive and emotional state in which an individual feels an overwhelming desire for another person, known as the “limerent object.” This state was first defined by psychologist Dorothy Tennov in the 1970s."

Now, the act of limerence is completely involuntary and could happen to anyone, neurodivergent or neurotypical! However, based on anecdotal evidence, it appears to affect women with Autism more than anyone else. When you experience limerence with someone, they become everything to you. You are completely obsessed with them, they can do no wrong in your eyes, they are everything to you.

Sound familiar? The way Gale describes how he viewed Mystra is unmistakably Limerence, at least in my opinion. And if you aren't convinced, allow me to be vulnerable for a minute and share a personal story on my experience with Limerence.

I was about 12 or 13 when I first met my friend, let's call her Tina. Now, Tina was that one girl in school who loved anime, played the violin, and made incredible art. From the first moment I met her, I was smitten. And this went far beyond a normal teenage crush. I was obsessed with her, her opinion, her tastes, her likes and dislikes. I was so in love (I thought) that once stole my late grandmother's wedding ring and gifted it to her. I devoted every breath in my body to her, every fiber of my being. We were friends for years and even dated for a while. In my mind, we were meant to be. We got along great, she was funny, silly, and so incredibly talented. What I didn't know - or maybe didn't want to believe - was she didn't feel the same way.

"But, Hyper! Isn't that just unrequited love?" No, dear reader... 'tis not. Limerence is not love, no matter how much you may want it to be; no matter how deep your feelings feel like they are. Limerence is an unhealthy obsession and there is typically very little one can do to sway oneself from their "object of desire". In the mind of the person with Limerence, there's nothing else in the world except the person they're obsessing over.

Now, there are three stages to Limerence: Infatuation, crystallization, and deterioration, which all seem pretty self-explanatory, but I'll explain further for those of you who don't know.

Infatuation: The first time you notice the other person's positive qualities. Their eyes, their smile, their abilities/talents.

Crystallization: The "obsessive" part of the act. Where you feel a heightened sense of anxiety, walking on eggshells to avoid any "turn-offs" around the other person. You may find yourself thinking about them to the point where it's affecting your normal, daily life.

Deterioration: When the intensity of your feelings begin to wane, and you no longer find yourself attracted to or wanting the attention of the person you were pursuing. In my experience, this is the worst part of Limerence as it usually blew up in my face.

Now, you may be thinking something along the lines of "Okay, but how does this relate to Gale?" or "Are you trying to imply that Gale was abusive towards Mystra? That's ridiculous and you suck!!!" and you're right. I do suck. But I'm not implying that Gale was abusive towards Mystra. Given the fact that she's a literal goddess, it's impossible for that to have happened. What I'm implying is that how Gale viewed Mystra for the time that he was with her was not genuine, true love like how he has with Tav.

This post got way longer than I originally anticipated and I'd love to write a full-length essay on this someday, but I feel I've assaulted y'all's brains with enough jargon for now. If you guy wanna hear more of my thoughts on this particular subject, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

Please feel free to keep the discussion going in the comments or your own post! I adore Gale and discussing things like these regarding his character and personality is my bread and damn butter.

[shyflowerhologram]

recently I got across a term 'limerence', which I found very fitting for Naruto's relationship with Sasuke. Limerence is a deep obsession, longing for another person. It's different from love or lust, not necessarily sexual or romantic. It's one sided, those feelings usually aren't reciprocated. I'll quote the passage, which especially reminded me of Naruto: "limerents are objectifying the person they are obsessed with. They project their own emotional needs onto this other person, idealise them, minimise their flaws, and generally treat them as a sort of impossibly desirable object of infatuation. The limerent object becomes (in the brain of the limerent) a source of hyper-reward, and the limerent seeks that reward as avidly as possible." To me it feels like a best explanation of Naruto's obsession with Sasuke. Little Naruto saw Sasuke as a loner like him, but at the same time Sasuke was popular, always praised by other kids and teachers. I think that was what marked Sasuke as the object of limerence, Naruto even admitted: "You were my goal." Sasuke's needs, desires had always been downplayed since then. Sasuke became a grand prize, someone to obtain. There are several signs of limerence which ring a bell: limerents have frequent intrusive thoughts about the limerent object (do I need to list? throughout the manga it's always Sasuke that, Sasuke this for Naruto); they have an acute need for reciprocation of equally strong feeling (this one is also obvious, Naruto always wanted to be as important for Sasuke as Sasuke was for him); exaggerated dependency of mood on limerence object's actions (insert happy happy Naruto when Sasuke joined war at his side vs his intense hysteria whenever Sasuke took a step further away from him and Konoha, it wasn't about power play and we know it); fleeting relief from unrequited feeling through vivid fantasy about reciprocation by the limerence object (aka the big dream where Sasuke came back to village and all lived happily together); intensification of feelings by adversity (more Sasuke tried to get away, more intensely Naruto obsessed); an aching sensation in “the heart” when uncertainty is strong (the panic attack when everyone declared Sasuke as persona non grata); general intensity of feeling that leaves other concerns in the background (literally every concern, was it on Naruto's side or Sasuke's side wasn't important enough for Naruto); a desire for exclusivity in this special connection (as Naruto had expressed it, he was only person who had an understanding with Sasuke and nobody else was allowed to face him). Limerence can last many years, even while limerent person in a relationship with someone else (now idc about boruto, but the fact that Naruto got married to someone else, doesn't mean he's out of his limerence). "...to outside observers, limerence seems pathological... it seems inconceivable that a sane person could attach so much importance to another individual." Naruto had always been questioned about why was Sasuke so important for him, his obsession had always seemed weird for onlookers.

if anyone's interested, check out Love and Limerence by Dorothy Tennov and Living with Limerence by Dr L.

[tumbler-polls]

Limerence is a mental state of profound romantic infatuation, first defined in the 1970s by the psychologist Dorothy Tennov. It is characterised by an initial period of elation and intense emotional arousal that can progress to an involuntary, obsessive craving for another person. The limerent individual may struggle to think about anything else but their “crush” and neglect their social life, work, and other responsibilities as a result.

[our-arospec-experience]

The Split Attraction Model (SAM)

*keep in mind, not everyone uses or accepts this model, and wherever you stand with this model, you are valid. This is purely informational, not a guideline.

The Split Attraction Model (SAM) differentiates attraction into different forms.

The SAM allows individuals to describe their orientations separately, for example, aromantic and pansexual.

some individuals may also include a tertiary attraction in their identities.

Not all a-spec individuals use the SAM, most notably, non-SAM aros.

Some individuals prefer more precise terms for differentiation such as "romantic orientation", "attraction types", etc.

Not every individual who experiences different types of attraction necessarily have a distinct romantic orientation, and not every individual who has a romantic orientation necessarily experiences multiple types of attraction.

History:

the idea was first recorded in 1879 by Karl Heinrich Ulrichs, who published several books on non-heterosexual attraction

it's next use was in 1979 by psychologist Dorothy Tennov in 'Love and Limerence: The Experience of Being in Love'

became common in a-spec circles by 2009

The term was origionally developed from aphobes and exclusionists who insisted the a-spec community of forcing everyone to split their orientation into multiple parts.

The term was adopted by a-spec communities in order to talk about the issue.

SAM flag:

[narutouzumakiarchive]

Re-reading Tennov's book on Limerence. There's a lot of misinformation associated with the term stemming from pop psychology websites regurgitating nonsense stated by Albert Wakin who literally made up stuff about the term that was NOT stated by Dorothy (the original creator of the term) herself.

But anyway, most academic researchers who scientifically study love recognize that limerence is basically a type of love that's practically synonymous with passionate love, romantic love, and infatuation..... as distinct from companionate love (also known as attachment, although attachment theory is controversial). Ironically though, Dorothy Tennov tried to draw a distinction between romantic love and limerence but her book was originally published before more scientific studies studies were published.

But that's neither here nor there. I just wanted to point out that I love Cathy and Heathcliff relationship being highlighted as an example of romantic love.

I've noticed there's a divide in how their relationship is recognized externally. "It's not real love." "It's just obsession." "It's not romantic love, it's toxic." And I suppose that way of thinking isn't necessarily wrong BUT that's more of a philosophical qualm that's distinct from how love as a drive is recognized in a biological sense. Here is Helen Fisher's original landmark conception of the different behvioral/cognitive/emotional components of romantic love.

It's a bit outdated (ie. Helen Fisher herself recognized that lust was a distinct brain system from romantic love but includes it in the list of psychophysical properties associated with attraction; newer research has shown that obsessional aspects can be separated from passionate love..) and I prefer the Passionate Love Scale as a measurement of infatuation (although additional research has shown that it also includes properties more tied to companionate love) but Cathy and Heathcliff check the boxes anyway.

And the question of toxicity is less straightforward. It comes down to your personal beliefs about whether love is a moral phenomenon. I believe this argument has especially taken off with the increased popularity of bell hooks "All About Love" in which she argued that love was a verb and it couldn't coincide with abuse. But these arguments have existed long before. I'm of the opinion that love isn't necessarily moral. I like this article on the morality of love and I've shared the snippet that funny enough briefly mentions Heathcliff as an example of a love object that doesn't have moral virtue (though I disagree with this framing). The rest of the article is really elucidating though.

A lot of our social conception of love DOES tie it to morality. A moral love is associated with depth as opposed to the "superficiality" that people link with amorality and this also affects perceptions of Cathy and Heathcliff's love as infatuation as opposed to genuine love (see example comment below of a post, also unrelated but i didn't realize Nelly's status an an unreliable narrator was so disputed bc I thought it was obvious???) despite the academic consensus that romantic love and infatuation are one in the same. Social psychologist Elaine Hatfield actually addresses this phenomenon in her book A New Look at Love.

It's all very fascinating and I find the different opinions on Cathy and Heathcliff exemplify the thesis of this post about shipping, and people's opinions on relationships in general.

(It does seem like it would be obvious that our opinions on fiction would be tied to our values and beliefs but analyzing romantic relationships is sort of seen as trivial and reductive in fandom)

[transgenderer]

Limerence is a state of mind which results from romantic feelings for another person, and typically includes intrusive, melancholic thoughts, or tragic concerns for the object of one's affection as well as a desire to form or maintain a relationship with the object of love and to have one's feelings reciprocated.

Psychologist Dorothy Tennov coined the term "limerence" as an alteration of the word "amorance" with no other etymology[1] to describe a concept that had grown out of her work in the mid-1960s, when she interviewed over 500 people on the topic of love.[2] In her book Love and Limerence, she writes that "to be in a state of limerence is to feel what is usually termed 'being in love.'"[3] She coined the term to distinguish between this and other less-overwhelming emotions[4] and to avoid implying that people who do not experience it cannot experience love.[5]

Nicky Hayes describes limerence as "a kind of infatuated, all-absorbing passion". Tennov equated it to the type of love Dante felt towards Beatrice—an individual he met twice in his life and who served as inspiration for La Vita Nuova and the Divine Comedy. It is this unfulfilled, intense longing for the other person which defines limerence, where the individual becomes "more or less obsessed by that person and spends much of their time fantasising about them". 

[echofromtheabyss]

Placeholder: the construction of postwar thru 1990s heterosexuality and its intersection with a unique 20th century monogamous amatonormativity norm i call "erosexuality" or "erotoromantic"

Modern and pre-Postwar heteronormativity are... not this

Some reference to Dorothy Tennov/limerence and how limerence was seen as actually the beginning stage of love, and how that reflects us marrying for capstone and not cornerstone now and also marrying much deeper into a relationship

[stem-sloop]

You wonder or imagine what LO would think of the book in your hand, the scene you are witnessing, the fortune or misfortune that is befalling you. You find yourself visualizing how you will tell about it, how LO will respond, what will be said between you, and what actions will-or might-take place in relation to it. As you engage in the ordinary tasks that constitute your daily activities, you invent intricate scenarios for possibly upcoming events. Endlessly, you plan the next encounter going over every detail of exactly what you will do in order to improve your image in LO's eyes. You imagine LO's reaction and your further responses.

[strikersin]

Tennov identifies only three things that can reliably end limerence: consummation: the bliss of reciprocation is gradually either blended into a lasting love or replaced by less positive feelings starvation: even limerent sensitivity to signs of hope is useless against the onslaught of evidence that LO does not return the limerence transformation: limerence is transferred to a new LO

DON'T PUT IN THIS IMAGE AFTER SAYING ALL THAT? THE UNIVERSE IS LITERALLY PLAYING INTO MY HOPE RIGHT NOW.

BY THE WAY

Art by Dorothy Lathrop, 1922. (Available as a print and as stationery cards.)

[radfemmedia]

Simone de Beauvoir Media

Interviews

Interview with Dorothy Tennov (1976) Time: 40:35

[pleaseturnonthelight]

Love and Limerence: The Experience of Being in Love - Dorothy Tennov

I don’t know if its more comforting or desparing to see that I have not lived a single individual experience.

Is this love? To suffer calmly as a placeholder, a warm body, all in order to not lose someone. As much as i would like to believe this true, I know it is not the case. 

Is it possible to truly love someone if it is unrequited? Will it all boil down to limerence in the end? Is it possible to truly love while in a state of limerence? These are the questions I am battling with.

I believe the line between unrequited real love and limerence is a very fine line to walk and if not careful it is easy to lose yourself in the balance. To say to someone you long for deeply, “I am happy for you” when coming to the realization you two will never be together..  when I utter these words do truly mean it? 

Boundaries play an important role in the difference between real unrequited love and limerance. Without the love and care and respect for yourself to say no, real love can never thrive.  It’s also shown through other actions and control of emotions; the ability to see the one you love happy with someone else with disregard of jealousy, releasing the ignorant illusion of ownership over ones heart, allowing yourself to move on without keeping a place open for them if they were to come back, true support and friendship. 

I’d like to think that I am very close to real love, although it may be ignorant of me to say that I understand love at all. 

[newworldallstar0]

Limerence vs. Twin Flames: Understanding the Differences and Overlaps

Limerence, a psychological term introduced by Dorothy Tennov in the 1970s, describes a state of intense, involuntary emotional infatuation where one person is fixated on another, often longing for reciprocation of their feelings. This state can lead to obsessive thoughts, emotional dependency, and idealization of the object of one’s affection. On the other hand, the concept of twin flames refers to a profound, spiritual connection between two individuals who are believed to be each other’s perfect soulmates. Both limerence and twin flame connections evoke deep emotional responses, but they stem from different origins and serve distinct purposes. To understand their relationship and differences, we need to explore the nature of each phenomenon in depth.

Defining Limerence

Limerence is characterized by an intense, all-consuming emotional state in which a person becomes obsessed with the object of their affection. This state involves persistent, intrusive thoughts about the person, an overwhelming desire for emotional reciprocation, and a heightened focus on every detail of the relationship. Those experiencing limerence often feel joy when their affections are reciprocated and deep despair when they are not.

Psychologically, limerence is driven by emotional needs and cognitive distortions. Individuals in a limerent state may idealize their love interest, projecting their desires and fantasies onto them, which creates an unrealistic and often unattainable image of the person. This idealization, combined with the emotional dependency on the other’s responses, can lead to significant anxiety and turmoil, especially when the feelings are not mutual.

The Concept of Twin Flames

The twin flame theory presents a different, more spiritual perspective on deep connections. According to this concept, each person has a twin flame, a counterpart who is their perfect mirror and complement. This relationship is believed to be a powerful, transformative connection that goes beyond mere romance, involving a shared spiritual journey and mutual growth.

The twin flame connection is often described as intense and challenging, characterized by periods of separation and reunion. This journey is seen as a process of personal and spiritual development, where the reunion of twin flames brings about profound transformation and self-discovery. Unlike typical romantic relationships, twin flame connections are thought to be less about the romantic aspects and more about achieving higher levels of consciousness and personal evolution.

Comparing Limerence and Twin Flames

While both limerence and twin flame connections involve profound emotional experiences, they arise from different sources and serve various functions. Limerence is marked by obsessive and sometimes distressing emotional intensity, driven by the desire for reciprocation and the idealization of the other person. It often involves a cycle of highs and lows based on the perceived responses of the object of affection. In contrast, twin flame connections, while also intense, are generally seen as part of a more significant spiritual journey, with the emotional highs and lows serving as catalysts for personal growth rather than mere romantic fulfillment.

Purpose and Growth

The primary purpose of limerence is to fulfill emotional needs and desires, which can lead to both positive and negative outcomes depending on the reciprocation of feelings. Limerence often focuses on the individual’s emotional state and their relationship with the other person. Twin flame connections, however, are believed to serve a higher spiritual purpose, aiming to facilitate mutual growth and self-realization. The challenges and transformative experiences in twin-flame relationships are viewed as opportunities for spiritual development and personal evolution.

Duration and Stability

Limerence can be a transient state, often lasting until the emotional needs are either met or the object of affection loses its significance. It can fluctuate rapidly based on the perceived interactions with the other person. Twin flame connections, on the other hand, are considered to be enduring and deeply rooted in spiritual bonds. The process of coming together, separating, and reuniting is seen as part of a lifelong journey of growth and transformation.

Limerence and twin flame connections both involve intense emotional experiences, but they originate from different aspects of human knowledge. Limerence is a psychological state focused on emotional fulfillment and idealization, while twin flames represent a spiritual and transformative bond that transcends typical romantic relationships. Understanding these distinctions helps in recognizing the nature of each phenomenon and appreciating the unique ways in which they influence our emotional and spiritual lives. Whether experiencing the obsessive longing of limerence or the profound growth of a twin flame connection, both can provide deep insights into our personal and relational dynamics.

[helpbotprtscrn82037987]

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never revisit that place

I should really word my responses better.

i.hold.a.great.distaste.for.the.spacebar

and every other button

"A Shirt Made of Fire" is something that "burns"

and no matter what you you you you you y

Psychologist Dorothy Tennov coined the term "limerence" as an arbitrary euphonious alteration of amorance[1] to describe a concept that had grown out of her work in the mid-1960s, when she interviewed over 500 people on the topic of love.[2]

why did you stop selling pillows?

whos your mom and why does she suck?

The Answer May Surprise You‼😲😱