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journey-to-the-attic · 1 year

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i know you've spoken about it before but i was wondering if u had any like,,, extended thoughts on ik being nightbrought? sorry if it's too much to ask lol i'm just in such a brainrot over lesson 12 rn!!!

i do have some!! some things have changed since the game first came out... i'll jot some down under the cut ^^

after giving it some more consideration i've changed my mind about removing the future!solomon lifeline, since nb has since opened up a whole BUNCH of cool stuff you could do with his character that only really works if its the solomon from the og game

so he's there too now!

there are like two main directions you could take with ik in this situation; one where she's incredibly stressed out (and understandably upset) about the whole situation, and another where she takes a look at it and just goes 'fuck it we ball'

considering that she's still only just gotten out of the whole belphie arc in jtta, i'm gonna go with the latter because she deserves to be whimsical

also it kind of goes with nightbringer - despite seemingly being much darker on the surface, it's a lot goofier than the og in many aspects

so ik is obviously extremely disoriented upon first getting nightbrought, but i think she'd actually figure out what's happened really quickly - after having done it before, she recognises the ~feeling~ she gets in the aftermath of time travel

also she knows the brothers extremely well at this point, so she'd recognise that they're very different demons suddenly

future solomon shows up and confirms ik's suspicions, and he starts doing this whole reassuring speech thing about how it's all gonna be fine, i'll take care of you, we'll be home in no time

solomon ends up essentially acting as ik's guardian, and he takes the duty very seriously ( rather than ebing his apprentice he refers to ik as his ward)

meanwhile ik's having the time of her life (as long as she doesn't stop to think too hard about her situation)

she's barely even intimidated by any of the brothers anymore - maybe mammon would, because she's never had him get violent or genuinely angry with her and isn't expecting it, but that's the thing - he's never gonna do that with his kiddo, no matter the time

basically it's like that ask about how she'll respond to satan getting all snarly by growling back at him. her responses to being threatened are always so happy-go-lucky that it just makes the demon threatening her forget to be evil and stuff

in terms of the thinking she's a demon thing... i do still think diavolo would recognise that someone this small couldn't possibly be a demon, but it'd be funny if solomon was like 'nah she's just small for her age' and he's just like 'oh word'

belphie and ik make fast friends! i still like this idea, and while the lilith wound is still very fresh, ik's always been good at patching scars up

i think this fast friendship also works better for making belphie question his convictions about humans - since he starts liking ik of his own volition and not necessarily because she's already done stuff for his brothers

in my head i feel like belphie would see that as him being obligated to like her - like, you saved my twin brother, i have to be nice to you now... he'd still come around to just genuinely enjoying her company, but it'd take longer (and make it more difficult for him to confront the lilith thing)

but! i still think mammon would be ik's first friend among the brothers - in the beginning, belphie avoids her since she's human, and it's only after she's already close to mammon that he starts talking to her

ik befriends the other brothers in a similar order to in jtta, with the exception that lucifer doesn't truly warm up to her for a little while longer

in jtta, he starts getting fond of her pretty early on, it just takes a while for it to manifest as the same sort of bond she has with, say, mammon

whereas in this nightbringer situation, because ik's so unafraid of him and not willing to put up with his shit, while still fiercely fighting for him to be kinder to himself, lucifer's not sure how to handle that - and compensates by being extra cold

of course he's also probably the most affected by the recent celestial war, and while ik helps with that, it's only when she's in combination with the rest of his brothers (once she's befriended them) that lucifer would be able to start healing properly

in general, ik's sheer confidence in the devildom (despite being a very different place to the one she knows, there's just a feeling of familiarity and home that transcends time) helps the brothers get settled in too

like, if this human can be so at home down here, as demons, they should be able to as well

diavolo would especially like ik's attitude - she was already friendly in jtta, but here (having already known his goofy future self), she's extra affable with him, and he just likes having a friend

barbatos appreciates ik for this reason - but he's also cautious, because he can't shake the feeling that she knows more than she lets on... something is off about time, and he can't figure out what

aside from her relationships to the characters... let's bring this back to ik being unexpectedly flippant about the situation, and solomon acting as guardian

to take this in the direction of angst (which you were probably more expecting in the first place): ik would potentially get very reckless in nightbringer

more so than she already is in jtta - remember that stunt she pulls in asmo's arc, where she has a stupid idea and charges at henry 1.0 to try acting as bait? she's like that all the time now

while solomon's glad she's not taking this all too hard, it's extremely worrying how little ik seems to care about getting home in one piece

part of it is because ik's still holding that trust she has for the brothers in the future - unconsciously, she fully believes that they'd never hurt her, even if her logical mind tells her that nothing's off the table with these past versions

part of it is because ik is torn up that her family suddenly doesn't know her again, and some piece of her just... doesn't care anymore? if you're going to take away that from her, you might as well kill her

and maybe a part of ik just wants to see if they'd care if she did get hurt

solomon, while also pretty easy-going for someone in his situation (similar to in canon nb), is at least cautious about his and ik's safety. ik just straight up doesn't seem to care

... and that's about all i have for now! i'll ruminate on it some more ^^ maybe i'll have some more thoughts once i've finished lesson 12

#answering asks #anon asks #ik gets nightbrought #i do have some ideas about ik and the angels in nightbringer but i wanna try to make those more concrete first #anyway while all this is going on #everyone in the present is losing their marbles with worry

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asexualbookbird · 2 years

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okay I've chewed on it a bit! So here's a messy Not Review of An Unspoken Name!

I did not hate it! the end no okay some things i didnt like

-it felt disjointed

i was most jarred by the beginning of part two, when we meet new people and it takes a bit for anyone we know to how up. like i just started caring about Csorwe and Sethannai, and now? it's over? we get new people????

-related: the timeline felt Off

or maybe the pacing? I was thinking about it and one of my complaints about A Memory Called Empire was the timeline was pretty short! Manit gets a new job, has the worst week of her life, and goes home. Wild. Here it's more spread out and supposedly that should work better for me since I generally complain about short timelines but i dont know! Something felt off to me! Most notable was the first torture scene. I'm not going to sit here and say give me 50 pages of in depth torture because I'm not about that, but afterwards Csorwe mentioned injuries and im like where'd they come from?? from the general?? and yeah i figured it out but maybe a bit more detail on the torture?

also in that scene, beforehand shes in the tunnels and the next shes in the generals room and it felt like it was immediately after but i guess some time passed? maybe transitions is what im complaining about here.

-sethannai what are you doing lol

no seriously what. is his goal. the box, yeah, but is it really? maybe it's explored more in the second book but his reasons felt flat to me! i dont hate him as a character (deffo hate him as a person lololol) but id have liked to see more of him? he felt like a background character tbh

i didnt like this but also didnt not like it but

-Plot™️

okay. look. I know and understand and even enjoy that different plot structures exist. I recognise that the plot structure i am most familiar with and have come to expect from novels is a very euro centric structure and that there are more ways to tell a story. i really think this is a synopsis problem and a me problem rather than a book problem. I went in expecting a story About Csorwe, but I don't think she's the main character here! Shuthmili is the main character! And it's wild because we don't meet her until part two! And again, different plot structures different ways to tell stories i get it, and I think had I known that going it my feelings would be different (so a Me problem). The synopsis talks about Csorwe and Sethannai, so I expected it to be All About Them. Twas not.

Things I liked!!

-THE WORLD(S)

i find it so fascinating that this is basically scifi space travel but make it fantasy. I love the different worlds i love that it doesnt feel like scifi with aliens and space and starships. (nothing wrong with that obvi but it's not my preferred reading tbh!) i thought that was done very well and wonder if there are any other books that do that because i want it explored more (which is the only reason im considering book two).

-M A G I C

WHAT A SYSTEM!!!!!!!! Again, interested in Shuthmili and her god(s), in the....Quinqureat? listening to the aduio did me no favor (quincury). I want more of that. I want to know more about all this magic how its used how its cast how it hurts the user. And honestly put this in the Did Not Like section because gotdang give me more detailed fights please. Sword fights were pretty well done (though could have been more)(thats a me problem)(i could always use more sword fights)m but I felt the magic fights were lack luster. I want more of them. This system is so cool, and it was underused!

-The Main Three

Csorwe, Shuthmili, Tal. Awful disasters, I love them so. Tal grew on me, unfortunately. Csorwe needs a hug. Shuthmili needs to frolic. They were done well, they had good arcs (though i do think Shuthmili's mind was changed a little too fast. It takes more than a cute girl to undo a lifetime of brainwashing.)

other notes are I kind of wish there was more time in the manor, simply because the friend Csorwe met was really interesting and I wanted more of her than a line later that said oh yeah and she got all she wanted and lived happily ever after :) Oranna was a good antagonist, though again. Was there really a central antagonist? Different structures yeah I know.

Overall it was Fine! I didn't outright hate anything! I'm not mad I read it! The narrator was very pleasant, did wonderful voices (though I'm more neutral on Shuthmili's voice lol) Don't really care to read the sequel, but not opposed to it.

#bookbird babbles #ezra reads the unspoken name #cannot stress enough how much i did not hate this #i feel like i want to be Nice because under different circumstances my feelings might be different lol #like i kiiiiiind of want to reread it knowing what to expect but also. i dont want to reread it at all.

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t4t-lumpygrab · 2 years

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ID: a digital drawing of Lemongrab 1 and 2 based on their segment from the videogame “Explore the dungeon because I don’t know.” The border around the image consists of Lemongrab 1 standing on the left, covering his left eye with his hand while crying.The top of his head has been removed, exposing his brain. His right arm has been mutated into a cotton candy creature, made out of differently coloured warped flesh with a huge hand at the end, his arm forms the border around the image, with his huge hand behind his head. The centre of the picture is Lemongrab 2 strapped to an examination table in a straight jacket. The top of his head has been removed, exposing his brain which has various writing on it. He is on the verge of passing out with blood dripping from his nose and mouth, where it has left smears on his skin. He is crying. Princess Bubblegum is stood behind him though only her hands are visible. She is lifting his head up with one hand, and holding an eraser in the other to erase his memories of her experiments. She is wearing a white labcoat. ED.

Inspired by the Lemongrab level from the video game “Explore the dungeon because I don’t know”, and the fact that Pb can cannonically erase Lemongrab’s memories.

#cw gore #cw blood #cw torture #cw body horror #ask to tag #did this for the memory erasure prompt!#based on my hc that since according to the game pb experiments on the lemongrabs sometimes and that she can erase their memories #it makes sense she'd erase their memories of her experiments #I feel the need to say I DO LIKE PB! SHE'S AN INTERESTING CHARACTER!#and I like the fact that her immortality and strive to maintain the status quo and the way she dehumanises people as a result #makes her do bad things and ruin her own life #I do recognise that she has a character arc and changes for the better lol pb fans don't @ me I like you guys!#my art #you can see why I gave people a heads up to blacklist certain tags lol

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chibimyumi · 4 years

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Hi, I hope you're doing well and staying healthy. I've read your post about how Elizabeth attacking ciel is sexism. What about Sebastian getting bully by Frances? Frances is a noblewoman grabbing a servant's hair in front of other people. And fans (including me) are like: oh! What a lioness! Even the devil himself is terrified of her! what if it was the other way around? The idea of a nobleman grabbing a governess's hair calling her nasty and indecent makes me uncomfortable and even angry.

【Response to post: Sexism against men and Kuro Sexist jokes】

Dear Anon,

I’m doing well, thank you very much. I hope you too ^^

Your question is a very good one, and it really had me thinking for a while! I myself admittedly do laugh very hard at Sebastian getting a hard time from Frances. But indeed, like you said, it is still bullying, and bullying is bad. In this post-feminist era, we have been so trained to see women bullying men as ‘funny’ or ‘empowering’, but women getting bullied as unambiguously bad instinctively, that sometimes we forget to check our double standards.

Feelings are feelings, we can’t help what we feel. But how come then that to many of us, Frances bullying Sebas is so funny, but Lizzie almost murdering O!Ciel and Nina bullying men not? This post is merely an attempt to explain this feeling for myself too, but hopefully we can all reach SOME explanation together as well???

Let us first look at in what ways Frances has been making Sebastian’s life hard. From all the interactions we have of these two so far, her main points of criticism seem to be his hair and his lack of professionalism.

Slovenly Hair

Sebastian’s hair is something we’ve gotten quite used to now after more than14 years. In Sebastian’s time however, his hair really would have been the height of impropriety for his profession.

Just like I translated O!Ciel’s looks to 2020 standards, I quickly translated Sebas’ hair to 2020 standards as well. Very clean, innit?! Very professional, innit?!

Even without the translation however, if we look at the worst of wigs from the Kuromyus, we can also see how Sebastian’s hair would be atrocious in any formal setting. Look past the fact that these actors are supposed to represent a drawn character. Just imagine being in a fancy restaurant and encountering a dead-spider feather duster on your waiter’s head.... erm....???

Something that is objectively bad on Frances’ end however, is that chapter 14 is not the first time that Frances has seen his ‘slovenly hair’. If his hair really is so unacceptable, as an authority figure Frances has the right to say something about it. However, as it seems, until this point she has never communicated at all (no, “hinting” is not the same as communicating), so Sebas had no way of knowing what he “did wrong”. She immediately grabbed for Sebastian’s hair without mercy, probably because her crept up frustration got the better of her. This is indeed entirely too harsh for a first time call-out, and entirely on Frances.

Much later in the story Frances criticises and touches Sebastian’s hair again, and this time in public while he was infiltrating as a teacher. Here Frances is even publically humiliating Sebastian in front of his students and other high ranking guests.

Especially when you keep in mind that Frances is a noblewoman and Sebas a mere servant, Frances is indeed abusing her power against a servant who cannot strike back at all.

This is indeed power play. However, though it does not justify anything, in the very least her criticism does have ground; Sebas’ hair is by all measures inadequate for any professional setting. Just be nicer about it, Frances.

Useless Butler

Now, let us look at the other reason Frances disapproves of Sebas. Sebastian is a very competent butler according to most people. To Frances however, this claim is empty. When she arrives, parts of the estate have been destroyed and something very literally exploded in her presence.

Even though Sebas is not the person actively causing the explosion or the destruction, as the senior servant of the household, it is literally his job to manage the other servants. So yes, here too, the fact that things can be destroyed in the household because he either hired inadequate staff or because he mismanages his household, DOES INDEED prove he fails at his job. As the aunt of O!Ciel who cares about her nephew AND her paternal home, Frances is in her right to be concerned and call Sebastian out for NOT doing his job.

In chapter 14, Sebastian’s schedule was all over the place and kept changing the plans for Frances. It is no wonder that she would be quite annoyed and doubt Sebastian’s adequateness. When you know your 13 year old nephew’s household is in the hands of somebody so apparently inadequate, anybody would probably be concerned. However annoyed though, Frances does not overstep any boundaries about this specific issue; she is simply supremely unimpressed. Fair enough?

Compliments where due

Something that is quite interesting though, is that despite disapproving of Sebastian, Frances does also know when to compliment him when due. After Sebastian has saved Lizzie’s life without boasting, Frances recognised how the butler does indeed have some value and the correct attitude as a servant.

She says “though you look indecent what you say is true,” and it is yet another jab at the demon’s expense. But here she is also showing that she is willing to acknowledge somebody’s achievements, looking past appearances.

Before Frances leaves, Frances jabs at Sebas a bit again, but she really is not doing anything dickish this time. Instead of making Sebas think she’s simply chosen him as target to be a prick towards, she concretely states why she doubts his professionalism. She mentions the smashed tea set, bare garden and burnt food; mistakes that are objectively unacceptable. Instead of yelling at him, she actually gives him constructive criticism. So here too, Frances is quite stern, but her grounds are solid.

In the Campania arc Sebas shows up again with the hair Frances disapproved of. Frances clearly wants to do something about it again because in her eyes, the butler simply won’t learn. But given the circumstances and Sebastian’s proven usefulness, Frances actually does shelve her agenda. Just like above, here too Frances shows that she is capable of acknowledging somebody despite their looks.

Later when the zombies dramatically outnumbered the living humans, Frances sends Sebas - who had come to her aid - back to her daughter and nephew. By sending Sebas back, Frances also shows that she in fact trusts this ‘slovenly butler’ with the lives of two children she loves deeply. Sebastian protests, but Frances immediately replies: “don’t you trust our ability as swordsmen?” Here what Frances is functionally saying is: “I trust you with your abilities, so you can trust us back.”

In short, Frances is harsh and doing power-play against a servant, but she can shelve her agenda, and does acknowledge Sebas when due.

Contrast to Nina and Lizzie

So now we have seen how Frances bullies Sebastian, and her motivation behind all her points of harshness. As we have seen, Frances’ only points of criticisms are concrete ones; Sebastian’s lack of professionalism in looks, and his lack of professionalism in management. She goes about them too harshly, but all points are legit criticisms, and something Sebas CAN and probably SHOULD work to improve.

Nina

This is in stark contrast with the way Nina bullies her victims. As far as we have seen, none of Nina’s victims have offended her in any way, nor does she ever give any concrete criticism. She has just decided that because men are men, they don’t deserve proper treatment. Even when providing clothes for men is literally part her job, she refuses to provide the ‘professional service’ she is being paid for. And because she is AN EMANCIPATED LESBIAN!!!!!!! #FEMINISM, it’s FINE (!?!?!?)

Unlike with Frances’ criticism of Sebastian’s inadequate hairdo and managing, being ‘men’ is not something any of these men can do anything about (except Sebas, but Nina doesn’t know). Bullying is always wrong, always low. But it’s EVEN lower when you bully somebody for who they are, and not what they do wrong. What does not help is that Nina seems to only be capable of treating people nicely if they happen to be sexuality-wise compatible with her... but if you are, you’ll get molested. What is wrong with you, Nina????

Yes, Frances is saying: “you are a man, and yet your fringe is so long”. So on the most surface level, it is a woman saying this to a man because he is a man. As we later get to know Frances a bit better though, she would be harsh to anybody who looks slovenly. She just has different hairstyles which she considers appropriate for men and women respectively. Had Sebas been a woman and his hair was the ‘feminine equivalent of slovenly’, Frances would most likely have acted exactly the same. So in this sense, unlike with the jokes using Nina and Lizzie, it is not purely: “Haha, girl bullies boii, lol.”

Something else that is terrible is that what Nina does seems to be systemic. Logically it checks out too; it can’t be that only since the past few weeks she’s decided only women and young boys deserve her kind treatment. For all we know, Nina’s been treating the male Phantomhive staff like this for 2-3 years. Sebastian’s comment about Nina thoroughly ignoring men again with “as always” further supports this theory.

With Frances in contrast, in chapter 14 (so barely a year ago in story time), Sebas seemed to have no clue whatsoever about Frances’ terrors. Sebas announced Frances’ arrival to his master and is very calm about it. It was not until O!Ciel alerted Sebas about his aunt that anybody even guessed what hurricane was headed for them. As such, we can safely conclude that Sebas had only been subjected to Frances’ criticism a couple of times, unlike having had to bear with Nina for years.

Yes, Frances still should have communicated, but I already addressed the details above. Still, the point remains that even though Frances is overstepping boundaries and abusing her power, her criticisms are at least not empty.

Lizzie

Lizzie too just like Nina, had zero grounds for showing that much aggression. She did not give anybody the benefit of the doubt, did not communicate, or even so much as give O!Ciel any chance to explain the situation. So far O!Ciel has given Lizzie no reason to think he’d cheat on her, and yet she hurled so much aggression at him Sebas had to intervene.

Still, Lizzie is marginally better than Nina because she is not systemically bullying O!Ciel. It is a one time event. However, this one makes me more annoyed with Yana because it means that even Yana had to use this stale, stale trope of “LOVE TRIANGLE COMEDYYYY”. Have I ever mentioned how MUCH I hate love triangles and jealousy???

Conclusion

Feeling wise, the most important reason for why Sebas being bullied by Frances is funny is probably because of who Sebas is. Sebas is otherwise an all-powerful demon, but to see him inventing colours to shit at Frances - a human Sebas could crush between his fingertips like a cookie - is just hilarious. Had Sebas been a human though, I would not have laughed so hard personally.

Rationally however, Frances is doing power play against a servant who cannot talk back, so it is still bullying, and bullying is inexcusable.The only bit of “right” Frances has is that she does not seem to be systemically bullying Sebastian, and that her criticisms have some ground.

So if Nina and Lizzie’s behaviours played for jokes are like... a -7 and -9 respectively, Frances’ at least scores a -2 for me?

(Yes, as we’re talking about bullying anyway, I just have to make a jab at Vincent.)

Afterword

Something not really related to why “Frances:Bad”, “Nina-Lizzie:Worse”, but I do wish to mention is Yana’s improved drawing skills. I have no proof, but I think it MIGHT have been where this Frances-joke originated.

Yana’s time in the more traditional mindset of manga-worldview really showed, especially at the far beginning. Besides, she was still in the process of finding a way to draw handsome men. In the more traditional mindset of the early 2000s, handsome men were just not supposed to have slicked back hair - “that was reserved for old men and nasty dudes!!” Yana’s discomfort with drawing handsome men with slicked back hair was clearly visible in Sebastian’s early appearances, and making the ‘”hair, back!!! says old-fashioned lady” was potentially even a way of Yana to laugh at herself.

I don’t know who else is old like me and grew up with 80s to early 00s manga, but at the time, hair for handsome men was a BIG deal. In that world ‘slicked back hair’ just carried a certain laughability about it; a “rule of not-cool”. To me at least at the time this ‘laughability’ really resonated with me, and Yana probably also trusted this same ‘unspoken rule’ to resonate with her audiences.

Much later though, Yana clearly grew more comfortable and maybe even fond of slicked back hairstyles as she confidently chose to portray Sebas as ‘appealing’ while wearing his hair in the style Yana previously disliked.

Again, I have no proof, but I can’t help but think that if Kuro had started 10 years later, the running gag revolving Frances might look altogether different.

What do you guys think? ^^ Cheers, and stay healthy!

Character analysis Nina Hopkins

Character analysis Vincent Phantomhive

Sexism against men and Kuro’s sexist jokes

MASTERPOST Gender in Kuroshitsuji

MASTERPOST Analyses & Info

#Kuroshitsuji #Frances #Midford #Sebastian Michaelis #hair #joke #funny #tw bullying mention #Lizzie #Nina Hopkins

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silverbastardgoldenfool · 4 years

Text

Realm of the Quarantine Reread End-of-Book Questionnaire: Assassin’s Quest

Any differences between your first/previous reading experience and this one?

Keep in mind I’m writing this months after finishing the book lol (it’s mental illness innit). I have LOTS of notes to go off but yeah, things aren’t as fresh in my mind overall. With that said the biggest difference I can think of between my first and second experience with AQ is my feelings towards Kettricken. I think the first time around reading you know that Fitz is an unreliable narrator but you are still limited by his viewpoint so you can get a bit trapped seeing things the way he does. For this reason, I think I pretty much just forgave Kettricken when he did on my first read, whereas on this read I was like……. Waiting for her to actually apologise and show some sympathy towards Fitz and it just…. Never happened.

Like, don’t get me wrong, I still love Kettricken as a character and I fully recognise that she has been traumatised. I don’t expect her to be nice or act rationally, and in the case of being willing to take Nettle for the crown… It’s cold but she’s doing what she feels she has to. My issue is - do what you have to, but don’t expect Fitz to understand or forgive you (same with Starling). But I think what bothered me the most was how Kettricken would constantly confide in Fitz and break down to him and he was always there to let her do so, yet she NEVER gives Fitz the chance to do the same. The one time he does “open up” in a sense is when she forces him to air out his traumas in front of everyone, and she didn’t show him any sympathy for what he’d been through then or later. She has been through hell, absolutely, but while her plight may not have been any better than Fitz’s it certainly wasn’t any worse. She pretty much had two modes in this book: completely cold or a crying wreck - but she was only ever crying for herself. She lets Fitz console her but she never consoles him. Again, this is a result of her own trauma and I don’t expect her to act any differently, but it just reaffirmed for me that while she and Fitz care for each other deeply it is not an equal relationship. Fitz feels an obligation to serve her and she - knowingly or not - takes advantage of that. Like, after realising that this is their dynamic it is so obvious that the same is true in Royal Assassin as well, and it will be interesting to see how it changes (or doesn’t) in Tawny Man as I don’t remember it well enough to say.

Must reiterate: Kettricken is still a great character and I still have a lot of respect for her, unfortunately she just falls into the overfull camp of people who love Fitz but have an unhealthy power dynamic with him.

The other big difference I noticed was that the Verity stuff just wasn’t as devastating this time. Not because it was any less sad but it just didn’t tear out my heart like it did the first time. That’s not a fault with the writing at all, I think it’s just the fact that, knowing what would happen to Verity and that we wouldn’t see the real Verity again, I kind of already let go of him at the end of Royal Assassin.

Something you can’t believe you forgot

I guess more of a misinterpretation/wishful thinking but like, realising that there is no passage explicitly stating that Fitz and the Fool were actually spooning in the mountains murdered me and spat on my corpse.

Oh also!!! Fitz yeeting himself out the window at Tradeford castle jskaskjf

Favourite character introduction moments/scenes

I love Kettle in general and the way we’re introduced to her as a cranky old lady sets her up perfectly

Favourite character arcs

Man they’re all so fucking sad lol but I guess the Fool? He goes from thinking Fitz is dead and his purpose failed to reuniting with Fitz, their relationship growing into something really real for the first time, and actually completing his mission - at least for now lol. This book is really the first time you get to see the Fool be properly vulnerable. Even when he was getting beaten up by Regal’s guards he always had his veneer of snark and superiority to hide behind - and I doubt when he went through his sicknesses at Buckkeep he would have revealed his weakness to anyone in order to be helped. But in the mountains he lets so much of that facade of the King’s Fool fall away - at least when it’s just him and Fitz. When he and Fitz meet again he lets Fitz see his grief and pain and hopelessness and joy as the Fool looks after Fitz, and then later when it’s the Fool who needs looking after he lets Fitz look after him. When was the last time the Fool had anyone really care for him like that, ya know? Had someone protect him purely out of love? Ouch dude!!!!

Also he gets to kiss Fitz at the end so good for him!!!!!!!!!! Be gay ride dragons!!

Favourite quote/s

“I would kill Regal. It only seemed fair. He had killed me first.”

“I had looked into the heart of my enemy. I still could not comprehend him.”

“The more I drank, the less tolerable my situation seemed. And the more intolerable I became to my friends.”

“I had never thought to be disdained by a tree.”

“The Fool, the Fool, only the Fool. I sought for him. I almost found him. Oh, he was passing strange, and surpassing strange. He darted and eluded me, like a bright gold carp in a weedy pool, like the motes that dance before one’s eyes after being dazzled by the sun. As well to clutch at the moon’s reflection in a still midnight pond as to seek a grip on that bright mind. I knew his beauty and his power in the briefest flashes of insight. In a moment I understood and marvelled at all that he was, and in the next I had forgotten that understanding.”

“When you can either laugh or cry, you might as well laugh.” - the Fool

Favourite relationships

Fitzandthefoolfitzandthefoolfitzandthefoolbahslbghabfhalgngjba

Also fitz and nighteyes (speaking of which, Nighteyes’ arc in this book is also fascinating and surprisingly complex) and Fitz/Nighteyes/Fool mwah magnifico chef’s kiss

Favourite setting

Kelsingra baybeyyy. I remember the first time reading this having no fucking clue what was happening in that chapter but I guess it was the gay agenda all along

Favourite chapter

It’s gotta be the chapter where Fitz and the Fool reunite, right? Catch me just gradually losing my grip on reality with every lingering stare

Most loved character

Foooooooooool

Most hated character

Ya know, for a minute I was actually wondering if I would like Starling this time round but yeah no lol. She was actually okay for a while but as soon as she sold Fitz/Nettle out she became The Worst, just as I remembered her. It’s not even because she betrays Fitz but because, like Kettricken, she expects Fitz to forgive her for it, to the point of running to tattle to the queen because Fitz isn’t giving her enough attention (I’m also not impressed with Kettricken for actually getting involved instead of just telling her to grow up). Not to mention her constantly misgendering/gendering (??) the Fool or just assuming the Fool’s gender and loudly fucking proclaiming it to everybody is just truly fucking disgusting. Like I cannot even explain how furious I was reading her incessantly using she/her pronouns for the Fool despite no confirmation that her theory is right or that the Fool is comfortable with this and despite EVERYONE ELSE using he/him pronouns. God I’m mad now lol. She just acts like a spoilt brat and it makes my blood boil. But that’s probably because I have known many people like this so… Good character writing lol congrats

Raise your hand if you’ve been personally victimised by Robin Hobb (most heartbreaking and/or visceral moments)

The whole first chapter/s are just so heavy and carry on that gut wrenching feeling from the end of Royal Assassin. Fitz just has no real desire to live and watching him systematically severing the last few ties he has to his human life is just so sad.

Even though I wasn’t as attached to Verity this time, his goodbye to Fitz still made me cry

As did Fitz giving Kettle her skill back

Verity using Fitz’s body to have sex with Kettricken really got to me this time, mostly because I either didn’t notice the first time or had forgotten just how much it affects Fitz. It’s no wonder he doesn’t want to acknowledge Dutiful as his son when the event that brought that fact into being was so fucked up and traumatic. It’s really upsetting.

Burrich saying he almost took Fitz to Chivalry and he should have never let the Farseers take Fitz just …… breaks my heart. Just seeing Burrich so raw like that in general is so unusual it really takes you aback.

Details, observations, spoilery notes made with the benefit of the full picture

Strap in lads this part is lonnnngggggggg

Is it bad to immediately want to cry just from seeing “Sandsedge” on the map and thinking of Sandsedge brandy

I never really thought about how poor Hap didn’t get the real Fitz all those years and how their relationship could have been if Fitz hadn’t been partially forged

Pls I have no idea why but to picture someone as emotionally repressed as Fitz actually sitting down and writing about his life makes me want to fucking cryyyyeeeee

Fitz in the prologue talks about needing a purpose as something to distract himself from sinking [into his chronic pain, mental illness and addiction] and boy howdy if that ain’t relatable. As someone with mental illness and chronic pain Fitz is just painfully relatable way too often.

“I have never forgiven myself the triumph I ceded him when I took poison and died.” Fitz :(((( my guy :((((((( forgive yourself for surviving however you could baby!!!!!

This book mentions Bingtown providing slaves to Chalced

It’s so funny to me when people expect Fitz to have social skills as if he didn’t literally live as a fucking wolf for weeks at a time. It’s a miracle he bloody speaks

The state Fitz is in at the beginning of this book was literally Burrich’s greatest fear for him, yet Burrich doesn’t just say I told you so and leave. He stays, is patient and even optimistic.

“He (Burrich) is not bigger than I.” Why does this feel so wrong lol??? I just can’t picture Fitz as bigger than Burrich

“When you were younger and not supposed to go into taverns without me…” So it’s fine if the child goes into taverns and gets drunk as long as you’re also there. Got it, Burrich.

Fitz calling Chade “the grey one” wow get rekd old man river

Seeing Chade and Burrich interact is so bizarre

Fitz is still having seizures at the beginning of this book! I had forgotten that

God okay so idk if I can articulate this point super well but the whole thing of Fitz going through this extensive abuse and then essentially becoming an animal feels like a metaphor for the way your brain’s “higher” needs and functions just shut off sometimes under certain levels of stress. Like in order to cope with the trauma you don’t think about concepts, or long-term goals, or other people. You just take care of your basic needs - food, sleep, shelter, water - long enough that you start to feel safe and secure again, at which point your brain can open up a bit more and allow you to really think again; to want again, to plan again etc. Like obviously literally becoming an animal is a heightened version of reality, but the functionality of it is the same; our wounds and our fear stop us from fully embodying ourselves.

Burrich be like, Fitz was getting way too dependent on drugs before all this so let’s steer clear of those. :) LET’S GET HIM ABSOLUTELY SHITFACED INSTEAD

I love how Fitz has his own unique relationship with Lacey and she’s not just Patience’s servant in his mind

Fitz talking about how even his memories from before his time in the dungeons are soiled by his trauma :( baby boy

Dude it’s so rich Chade lecturing Fitz about not making a life for himself, having friends or just chilling out like???? WHO TRAINED HIM TO BE AN ASSASSIN CHADE?? Like I get your point but what the hell kind of life did you think he was gonna have? Who ever took the time to teach him the importance of making connections with people for their own sake, and when would he have ever had the time anyway? I think Chade himself doesn’t actually know what he expects from Fitz.

Fitz saying he’s bad at making decisions because he’s never actually been allowed to make any is literally a point I’ve made lol. This is what happens when you teach teenagers how to murder in lieu of any basic life skills.

Burrich + Chiv were luv at first sight. No I will not elaborate.

“We kept you a boy, looked after you too much.” Huh??????? Fitz was never fucking sheltered lol. He didn’t have autonomy. There’s a difference.

I’m so fucking glad Fitz hugged Burrich before he left and that they actually left off on okay-ish terms. I didn’t remember that and it vaguely dulls the blow of knowing we don’t see Burrich again til Fool’s Fate (and that he thinks Fitz is dead the entire time between now and then).

“If I shaved my hair back from my brow” bitch disgusting

“Honey was the older of the two women. Perhaps my age.” jskfjnajgbl my guy those aren’t women then those are children!!!!!! U freak

I was wondering for ages why Fitz doesn’t mention the Fool like literally at all bc that’s so unusual right? Even in Assassin’s Apprentice he thinks of him when he goes to Moonseye and just in general the Fool usually enters Fitz’s thoughts pretty frequently. So why now, when Fitz doesn’t even know if the Fool is okay, is he just not thinking about him? And then I realised that that is exactly why. Because the only two people from his old life he doesn’t think about are the two people whose fates he knows nothing of: Kettricken and the Fool. So he can let his mind wander to think what Patience and Lacey might be up to at Buckkeep, or who Molly is with or whatever, because he knows they are all safe. But in such a fragile state I don’t think he can bring himself to really wonder whether Kettricken and the Fool made it to their destination - he probably doesn’t really believe they could have, and that is far too painful a road to go down when you are trying not to think at all.

I know the first act of this book is slow and that bothers some people, but I think it is so necessary, not only for Fitz’s arc but also because it really demonstrates just how severe the situation has gotten with the red ships and forged ones AND it shows just how destructive a king Regal is. Without this perspective it would probably be much harder to buy that the extreme measures taken at the end of the book are really worth the sacrifice.

Fitz is Demisexual, Exhibit A: when Honey is coming onto him, all he can think about is Molly.

Fitz is so scared of the Forged ones :( his trauma affects everything. He has no faith in himself and less heart for the violence than ever.

Speaking of trauma metaphors: the way Fitz tends to drift off into the wit or Skill after a traumatic experience is… pretty much just dissociation but magique

I forgot that witted folk can apparently communicate with each other mentally, not just with animals

“Her head was the size of a bushel basket.” Ah, yes, a bushel basket, a thing whose size we are all intimately familiar with.

Fitz finally finds others like him and even then he is not fully accepted. Told he is doing the wit wrong. Othered by the Others. It’s the queer experience innit.

Also forgot that apparently the forged are attracted to the wit as well as the Skill?

“I wondered if I had as many wolf mannerisms as they had halk and bear.” Yeah no probably not you only bloody LIVED as a wolf, Fitz.

Okay I know it doesn’t need saying but Patience is just so fucking cool!!!!!

Jesus fucking christ, Fitz skilling out to Molly when he knows Will knows he’s alive and is looking for him is just… so dumb. So so dumb. I know he’s just fixating on her because he’s miserable and she’s like this unsullied thing he had before everything went wrong but holy moly is it frustrating

Not to mention he doesn’t connect the dots between the fact that Burrich went to “help a friend” and every time he reaches out for Molly he sees Burrich sajkdbshkhja dude

Nighteyes leaving just goes to show that Fitz cannot rely solely on Nighteyes for companionship. No matter how innately the same they are they are equally as innately different. Fitz needs Nighteyes but he shouldn’t have JUST Nighteyes (which is why he, Nighteyes and the Fool are the holy trinity). When Nighteyes leaves, Fitz is in way too fragile a state to be left alone, but Nighteyes cannot think of the future or what might happen. All he knows is he’ll be back at some point and that’s all that matters.

“My anger fed my competence” whatever you need to tell yourself sweetie

I think I had blocked out the fact the Regal was keeping animals trapped in filthy cages so they could ravage people in the king’s circle uggggghhhhhhhhh I hate him

Fitz is down on himself saying that without Shrewd’s largesse, Chade’s information and Verity’s protection his idea of himself has been stripped away and that he’s not actually competent etc. but like. This is an extreme situation!! You’re literally alone in the wilderness with nothing and no one!! Who would thrive in this situation? And nobody gets by without help anyway! The people in our lives do define us to an extent. You don’t have to be able to stand 100% on your own at all times with zero resources to be considered capable. It’s human to depend on others. Yes I am chiding myself as much as Fitz here :))))

Burrich’s earring is the repressed gay earring. No I will not elaborate.

Fitz refusing to sell Burrich’s earring is frustrating yet something I would 100% do lol

Direct from my notes: Celery hiding out in caves?? Bad bitch

“I felt I was within the flames looking deeply into the Fool’s eyes” um okay gay

It’s actually surprising that Fitz admits he would not have gone after Molly even if he had known she was pregnant when she left. On one hand so self aware yet this doesn’t stop him from completely idealising their relationship.

And then you have Molly who says he was supposed to come after her “so she could forgive him”, that he was supposed to be the one to light the candles for her childbirth etc. The fact that she in any way thought he was mature enough to be a father just shows how little they really knew each other.

Burrich treating Molly like a horse while delivering Nettle is way funnier than it has a right to be jskakjasd makes me think of Dwight treating Phyllis’ back injury in The Office lol

The first thing Burrich notices about Nettle is that she has Chivalry’s brow are you fucking kidding me. Gay!

Fitz is Demisexual, Exhibit B: He had no interest in Tassin whatsoever until she literally started kissing him. At this point his body reacted, which is normal, but as soon as he got a second to actually think about it he stopped, because for him it would not be satisfying to sleep with someone he didn’t have feelings for.

“It seemed to take years for the dried beans and lentils to soften.” Okay mood

I love how Fitz just assumes Molly will take him back. “I have a woman and child awaiting me.” Says who bitch?

Small ferret? More like big legend

Ya know, we give Fitz so much shit but honestly with so much physical, mental and emotional stress on this journey how can we expect his mental faculties to be at 100%? I wouldn’t be making good decisions either, in fact I would be long dead.

Starling telling Nik that the earring once belonged to Chivalry is truly a smooth brain move

“Do not fear, little brother, I am here to take care of you again.” Words can’t explain how much I love Nighteyes and how often his dialogue makes me smile :’)

It’s so cute how Nighteyes is worried about Molly and Nettle until he knows that Burrich is taking care of them

It’s really interesting when Fitz claims “I’d rather be with Molly even if it meant rocking a crying baby in the middle of the night” because, well, he’s literally made other claims to the contrary, saying he wouldn’t have gone with her even if he’d known she was pregnant. Because at the end of the day as much as Fitz is compelled by others to do work for the greater good, I think deep down a lot of the time it is what he would do anyway. Like I really don’t think he could actually enjoy being with Molly knowing that the world is burning down around them. He would want to get out there and help somehow; not only to secure their own future but to reduce other people’s suffering as well. He’s an empathetic boy even though he’d like to be selfish.

Every time Fitz calls Molly his wife I lose ten years off my life

Again, I understand why he’s thinking like this, but Fitz’s ownership of Molly is just so uncomfortable. The fact that he can’t imagine her not having a place ready and waiting for him in her life when he returns just illustrates that she is not a fully realised person to him. She is just a comforting idea.

Oh yes, it was definitely Starling’s “pillowtalk” that got you captured and not the fact that you fit the exact description of the witted bastard right down to having Chivalry’s earring and a whole ass wolf

Somehow forgot that Jhaampe is basically a city of tents with only a few permanent buildings and people constantly coming and going

Fitz’s first words to the Fool are “I’ve come to you.” I’m gonna fucking die

Literally every single word from the moment Fitz realises it’s the Fool and starts describing him is a full body assault and personal attack I am seeking reparations

God the tenderness, the angst, the relief……… shall i pass away

“I doubted he was much taller, but his body was no longer a child’s.” My dude this is a gay awakening if I ever saw one

Fitz be like *spends 87 pages describing the Fool in painstaking detail* anyway I love being a heterosexual male

I’ve heard ppl cite Fitz’s descriptions of Kettricken as evidence of a crush (hard disagree) but literally nothingggggg even comes close to the way he describes the Fool. Not just this once but over and over again it’s insane.

“Talk fell off between us. The bottle of brandy was empty. We were reduced to silence, staring at one another drunkenly.” skjakfnajghajgnaLNGJ is it gay to silently gaze into thine homie’s eyes

The Fool protecting Fitz from everyone - especially Starling - in Jhaampe is often hilarious and always heartwarming

Realising Fitz was skinny enough for the Fool to lift on his own ahhh no wonder he said the famous “When I recall how beautiful you were” line, Fitz is a total wreck

I love that the Fool actually gives Chade shit for his plan to take Nettle. I love him.

“Too few folk cared for me. I could not hate a single one of them.” Oh, Fitz :(

I always wonder how the Fool really feels about Molly. Is he jealous? Does he compare himself to this woman Fitz idolises and he doesn’t know? Does he know that Fitz is barking up the wrong tree or is he stuck thinking Molly must really be Fitz’s soulmate since he won’t shut up about how much he loves her and can’t wait to get back to her? He just never really lets on how it makes him feel when Fitz has relationships with women. We know Fitz gets jealous of the Fool (for litch rally like no reason lol), so with the Fool being much more honest with himself/in general about his love for Fitz and having much more legitimate reason to be jealous, is he? Or is it just something he’s made his peace with, that these women give Fitz something that he cannot? Is he okay with that cos he has to be or does he have a different, less monogamous view of love and relationships (he does have three parents after all). I dunnoooo dude I just have so many questions. Like obviously - OBVIOUSLY - if Fitz and the Fool didn’t have romantic feelings for each other before, there is no doubting that romantic feelings appeared the moment Fitz appeared in the Fool’s hut. Fitz won’t admit that but mere chapters later the Fool is talking about how he loves Fitz in every way so like. He knows. So how does he feel when Fitz is calling out for Molly in his sleep, or openly speaking of seeking her out when all this is over, and lying to the Fool to protect Molly and his daughter. Really makes u think!!!!

Fitz reuniting with Sooty and going to see her every day in Jhaampe is so cuuuute and made me so happy. Sooty is a good girl :’)

Fitz be like *leans against the table where the Fool is carving and watches his fingers at work like a true repressed gay*

Verity is literally so strong???? He submerged himself in skill and was able to pull himself back from the stream can u imagine? Go off king!

Bro I literally can’t with the Fool mentioning Jofron so casually and Fitz immediately thinking wow oh my god they’re definitely fucking oh my god the Fool has a girlfriend - Fitz sweetie calm down

I love how Fitz and the Fool just naturally walk together :))) and Nighteyes babysitting Kettle is so cute

Molly never once says that she misses Fitz. She says she always expected him to do the right thing, to come after her and not leave her alone with a child. But she doesn’t look back on their time together fondly or have much positive to say about him as a person. And all that is fair, but it’s also just… Not really the behaviour of someone who’s been separated from their soulmate. It’s more just someone who’s been left in a shitty position by someone they cared about but hardly knew.

Fitz asking the Fool what is between him and Starling when they’re literally just being civil is sooooo fucking funny. Not everyone finds the Fool as irresistible as you do, Fitz.

The Fool just casually finding a pretext to call Fitz the light of his life

Fitz telling Kettricken firmly that he will not travel if the Fool is ill is one of the only times he ever puts his foot down with her GEE I WONDER WHY

I’ve said it before I’ll say it again…… there really do be something about the way Fitz can’t meet the Fool’s eyes………. It’s not like they’re weird and colourless anymore like they used to be!!!

The Fool already talking about Clerres in this book!

Fitz and the Fool and Nighteyes playing in the stream is too fucking pure omg, it’s what they deserve

And then Starling has to bloody ruin it bc she’s homophobique

But seriously, Fitz actually lets go for the first time in ages and has a nice evening only for Starling to go tattling to Kettricken, and Kettricken having the gall to confront Fitz about it. And then Fitz solves the problem by saying he doesn’t disdain her when like!! He has every right to!!!! She sold him out, sold his daughter out. She never even apologised but instead has just been totally petty and self-righteous and stirring up trouble amongst the group. She hasn’t earned or even asked for his forgiveness. So fitting that she’s the one constantly judging Fitz for his relationship with Lord Golden in Tawny Man lol, she just cannot let Fitz and the Fool be the queer icons they are!!!

Verrrrrrrrrrry interesting that Fitz only “suddenly missed the human warmth and comfort” of Starling taking his arm or sleeping against him literally IMMEDIATELY after the plumbing and love confrontation with the Fool. I mean he has been doing all of those things with the Fool (sleeping together, walking arm in arm etc.) so it’s not about human touch at all, it’s about convincing himself that a WOMAN’S touch is somehow inherently different.

He does the same thing with Starling as with Kettricken. She technically apologises but it’s not sincere and that’s not why he forgives her. Same as Kettricken, she tells her sob story and he can’t hold onto his anger. It makes sense, but it’s just very toxic. It would be nice if at least one person would really recognise how much they’ve hurt Fitz and really, genuinely want to atone for it, or apologise without expecting forgiveness. The onus should not be on Fitz to forgive Starling but on Starling to grow up and not need Fitz to like her in order to remain civil and do what they have to. Also “I do not find your wit bond offensive” has the same energy as someone telling you out of nowhere like “It’s fine that you’re gay :)” like wow thank u?? lol

Fitz is Demisexual, Exhibit C: “I wanted her with a desperation that had nothing to do with love, and even, I believe, little to do with lust.”

“By his love he is betrayed, and his love betrayed also.” So fate agrees with me, Fitz and the Fool are in love? :)

Anytime the potential that Fitz might have to choose between Molly and Nighteyes I lose brain cells. That’s ur brother Fitz!!! It’s not even a choice!! How dare u

It’s just sooooo intentionally laid out for us in this book that Fitz’s relationship with Molly really wasn’t good or healthy and that his fixation on it is misguided, and I think that’s why I struggled sooooo hard with the ending of Fool’s Fate, because it kind of implied the exact opposite. I’m hoping on this reread I will pick up on it being laid out as a result of Fitz getting his memories/teen feelings back rather than it just feeling like a lowkey retcon, but I guess we’ll see lol

“I felt I was a bit in love with him, you know. That sort of lift to the heart.” the confirmation that the Fool KNOWS HOW IT FEELS TO BE IN LOVE sends me deep into the swamps goodbyeeeeeeeeeeee

“The one who loves him best will betray him most foully.” So fate agrees, the Fool loves Fitz best :)

“You do love me! … Before, it was words. I always feared it was born out of pity.” Godddddd Foooooooooool!!!!!!!!!!!

Everything about Fitz, the Fool and Nighteyes meeting in the skill for the first time is just truly perfect iconic unparalleled.

Fitz’s love for Verity hurts my heart so much. Just think of the relationship they could have had if they weren’t stupid royals.

Kettle’s whole speech about Fitz and Molly… Just yes to every word.

Look I’m just gonna say it… The way Burrich reacts to Molly’s advances … like I know it’s probably not intentional but it just reads as very much fitting in with my headcanon that he is gay. As soon as she makes it clear she wants to sleep with him he like leaps across the room lol. I do believe he cares for her and loves her in his way, but it does feel mostly like he’ll just do whatever he needs to to care for her and the baby. Sowwy

I wonder why the Fool wasn’t as affected by his giving up of memories to Girl-on-a-Dragon?? Or was he, and he just gets them back before we see him again in Tawny Man?

“Take my hurt that I never knew my father, take my hours of staring up at his portrait when the great hall was empty and I could do so alone.” um this is so fucking sad

It was the Fool who sent Starling to find Fitz after Verity uses his body and again I have to ask, wtf is going on in your mind, Fool!

Fitz is Demisexual, Exhibit D: Even once he actually sleeps with Starling he has no enthusiasm about it, he just kind of goes along with it, likely to prove to himself that he has really let go of his past/Molly.

I always wonder why the Fool leaves now. Is it because he thinks their work is done and doesn’t want to risk messing things up by hanging around his catalyst like at the end of Tawny Man? Does he intend to come back and find Fitz again but get sidetracked by a lead or a new dream? Like it’s just weird because at first he was like “Prophet and Catalyst stick together” and was gonna stay with Fitz - or was that just an excuse because he was obsessed with Girl-on-a-Dragon? Fool u spicy lil enigma

It’s blood and the wit that wakes the stone dragons so does that mean King Wisdom was witted? Or is that obvious lol

Fitz isn’t even bothered by the Fool’s kiss, just shocked. I am looking.

Patience shouting orders at Verity-as-Dragon is beautiful ksjjk

Of courrrrrssse Burrich names his first son Chivalry

In the epilogue, the Fool is the only one Fitz actually says he misses. Exquisite.

I know some people have an issue with Regal’s death but personally I find it delicious

Okay that’s all (I say as if this wasn’t 139841989 pages long). See y’all in 92 years when my sister finally starts reading Liveship!

#realm of the elderlings #realm of the quarantine #assassin's quest #long post #fitz and the fool #Fitzchivalry Farseer #rote #ehhh idk what else to tag lol #if u read all this congrats and i'm sorry

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machikuragii · 4 years

Note

Rank the Sohmas and explain your ranking?

Anon, this got really long, so I’ve put everything under the cut. Also I don’t have solid rankings beyond my top 2 so I went into ‘tiers’ that aren’t necessarily ordered by how much I like a character. TLDR; I love all the zodiacs for different reasons, see readmore for more in-depth thoughts.

1. Yuki Sohma

Yuki as a character is really, really important to me. I think about him so much, and how he goes from a neglected, unwanted child with no support network to a confident young adult who is so comfortable with himself and free to be happy and at ease and surrounded by those who love him. I think about how important it is that Takaya displays this journey as incremental, and not necessarily linear. I think about how Yuki’s strength comes not only from himself and his desire to improve step by step, but from the support he gradually starts to receive from the people around him. I think about just how important it is when Takaya says that it’s ok to be weak, to reach out for help, and that for some people, it is only when they DO receive the needed support from others that they are able to get better. I think about just how much it means for a boy with so little self-worth to gradually find himself in the company of people who enjoy his presence and like him for who he is, and I think about how he is able to reach out and help others after receiving the warm and foundation he himself needs, when he is emotionally ready. I think about then, how SIGNIFICANT it is to show a character who had absolutely NOTHING in his childhood go on to make sure that his own child has everything he longed for in a home in his childhood.

There’s a little bit of Yuki in everyone. Every bit of his internal monologue hits like a truck for anyone who struggles with insecurity and low self-esteem, and his drive and aspiration to find his own purpose and happiness, can be a source of inspiration to so many. Yuki Sohma is one of the best, if not THE definitely best written Fruits Basket characters, and I really wish more people recognised this. As sensei once said herself, I know that Yuki will always have his fans, but I wished that more people realised and appreciated his importance in the story and carrying the themes of Fruits Basket.

2. Hatori Sohma

This is more a remnant of a past phase, but Hatori is here because he was my first anime crush ksksksasoksks . Jokes aside though, I love Hatori because of his kindness and selfless nature that is masked by a cold exterior. As an adult I realise that Hatori’s actions are not always perfect or enough, but I still really think that he is someone who truly cares. There are so many instances that improve his character in my eyes. Can you imagine going through what he goes through with Kana, and learning of her marriage, and not feeling bitterness, but relief that she is happy? And yet he values his own happiness so little that it really breaks my heart. Or the way that he doesn’t avoid Momiji after the ordeal with his mother, but checks up on him and in a way helps raise him? Dude is more of a father figure to Momiji than his own dad. Narratively, Hatori’s backstory is such an effective introduction to the darker, more mature themes of Fruits Basket, and yeah you can bet it worked on kid me.

TIER: “These are great characters, I love their complexity but I’m also just fond of them as well” (no particular order)

Isuzu Sohma

Someone who definitely grew on me this time round. When I was a child I found it hard to understand what she was going through and didn’t really relate to her either. But oh my god, this girl goes through so much. She’s such a kindhearted character at heart, but struggles with connecting with others and receiving their kindness because of what she went through as a child. It’s so hard to watch her struggle, because we know she deserves the world.

Akito Sohma

Controversial to say I love Akito just after I said I love Rin, lol. I’ve never had an overly negative impression of Akito throughout Fruits Basket (this is partially because my friends used to call me Akito when we were little.....because I was an Asian girl... and Akito is also an Asian girl????? idk now that I’m thinking back over it...gee thanks guys), so it was relatively easier for me to accept her redemption when it came. Akito’s actions are not defensible, but I find it much more interesting to explore where she is coming from, rather than just mindlessly spew hate and wish violent things for her like some people prefer to do. Akito’s character is a tragedy, and I feel like people are way less willing to emphasise when the victim is not “perfect”, per se. Akito went through the same “broken home” parental abuse that a lot of the characters in Fruits Basket went through, but somehow people are unwilling even to extend the tiniest amount of baseline empathy towards her just because he trauma manifested in a way that hurts others. Guys, she’s a tragic character!!! A tragic character isn’t always “a perfect person who has bad things happen to them”, it can also mean “a character who becomes antagonistic because of circumstances.” Her actions are inexcusable, but there is a lot to learn when we explore WHY she became this way.

Shigure Sohma

Gonna try make this short. Shigure is a controversial character but I like him because I like characters that demonstrate moral ambiguity. The point of Shigure is NOT to be a good person, and he doesn’t have to be one to justify liking him. Once again, you can like Shigure and still know that he’s a piece of shit. The whole idea of “he genuinely cares for Tohru but will hurt her if it means achieving his own goals” is a fascinating one to me, because it shows that the idea of “good people” and “bad people” is vast oversimplification of how actual people think and behave. Still though, I’m really not fond of how Akigure was executed in canon. I think the two could have potentially had a fascinating relationship but it ended up being more disturbing and swept under the rug&uncomfortable than interesting.

Momiji Sohma

On the opposite end of the spectrum we have Momiji who is just genuinely such a good person. I like the dichotomy between his outwardly ‘childish’ and ‘immature’ appearance and behaviors, versus what we gradually learn about him: that he has had to be mature and selfless at a very young age, and that he is also very emotionally intelligent and empathetic. Watching him gradually grow up before our eyes (we were ROBBED of it in the anime) but at the same time feeling more and more lost broke my freaking heart. When his curse breaks and he realises that even though he is now ‘free’, that nothing has changed and the damage was already done - absolutely heartwrenching. He’s someone I would have loved explore more of what happened post-canon, because I just want good things for him and Momo, screw whatever the hell their asshole dad thinks.

TIER: “I love these characters but don’t focus on them as much as I think the fandom does”

Kyo Sohma

I’m a self-professed “probably don’t think about Kyo that much” person haha. I know I know, sue me. I think its because out of the main 3, I love Yuki and Tohru so much that I don’t tend to focus on Kyo. I still like him a whole lot though!! I’m a big fan of the way he matures and changes throughout the series, and much like how Yuki does too, becomes a much happier person. When I compare early-series Kyo with later-series Kyo, one thing that always sticks out to me is how much more he smiles. The way he smiles at Tohru is so full of genuine warmth and happiness that it makes my heart melt, especially when I think about how this is a boy who has so much baggage, and has to gradually accept the fact that he deserves happiness before he allows himself finally to accept it.

Hatsuharu Sohma

Most of my love for Haru comes from the relationship he has with Yuki. It takes so much maturity to accept that your prejudices may be unfair, and Haru did so at such a young age. Sometimes I just think about how much Haru did and continues to do for Yuki without the need for reciprocation or even recognition and it just hits me how much of a good person Haru is. He was Yuki’s ONLY friend at a time he had NO ONE, and is the reason Yuki was able to move out of the estate and become the person we know and love. Haha sorry for making this about Yuki again, but I think their relationship also says a lot about Haru as a person.

TIER: “I like Kureno and am tired of making a thousand disclaimers every time I want to say I like him, Takaya-sensei whyyyy”

Kureno Sohma

I really like Kureno. This is again pretty controversial, but let me try to explain. I like Kureno because he’s an example of someone who wants to do the right thing that causes the least amount of harm to everyone, but inevitably ends up making the decision that causes much more damage. It’s a classic “good intentions, bad outcome” scenario and I freaking love it. I love that it’s absolutely not what he wants, but Kureno ends up doing a lot of wrong things and destroying not only Akito, but also his own life in the process. I just find the idea of an adult of his age who is so isolated from all of society that even a shopping trip is something foreign and out-of-the-ordinary, really, really sad.

On the romance side though, I hate that Takaya-sensei decided that Arisa would be his romantic interest, but I do like the idea of romance being a part of his arc. (I actually think their interactions are somewhat cute but that the overarching age gap ruins everything - i keep thinking about if Arisa was older or Kureno was younger, but touching their ages at all would affect the plot so I would rather it wasn’t Arisa at all). Just the idea of Kureno by Akito’s side, playing the part of what he thinks is her “lover” (god sensei why are u liek dis), when he meets someone on one of his rare trips outside the Sohma estate that causes him to realise that what he and Akito have is not at all what a healthy relationship should feel like - and it causes him to reevaluate the harm he is doing to them both, and take steps to leave her. That is...not exactly what Sensei did, but I always remember how much I felt for Kureno when he said in the upcoming anime chapter how it was the first time he had felt like he loved someone out of his own choice...I just felt like that one “choice” could have lead him to the realisation that he can start to make more of his own, healthier choices in life. But yeah. Wish it wasn’t Arisa because it didn’t do anything good to her character arc, and it’s creepy.

TIER: “I really like these characters but don’t go out of my way to think about them”

Kagura Sohma

Ok I lied, I do go out of my way to think about Kagura. I love her too, despite common opinion. I think her reflection of her relationship with Kyo was so wonderful. Her confession that she started to like him out of pity, but that over time they became genuine feelings. But that Kyo can’t reciprocate her feelings so she’s accepting of that, and thankful that he gave her time to express herself, although she will still go on loving Kyo. Kagura is one of those characters where Takaya-sensei once again demonstrates her ability to take a “trope” of a character and actually delve into their psyche and explains why they feel this way.

Ayame Sohma

I love Ayame because he’s genuinely so much fun! I appreciate the arc of him rejecting Yuki, but how he is now reaching out to help him, and I feel like we don’t get a good insight into just how significant this rejection was until we see it from Yuki’s perspective. I also admire how he is able to recognise his own shortcomings, and respects Hatori because of his sensitivity to other people’s feelings. He’s a character who could definitely have been explored more if desired, but isn’t underexplored or incomplete as is.

Ritsu Sohma

My poor Ritsu. In contrast to Ayame, Ritsu was definitely underexplored. Such a great potential to explore confidence, identity, and assertiveness. Ritsu as it stands though, is largely a minor character who wasn’t given the time they needed to be fully fleshed out. I would have loved to see them gradually gain more confidence over the series!!

Kisa Sohma

Love love love Kisa, she’s such a cutie pie. But I feel like there wasn’t much more to say about her that wasn’t said in her arc. Kisa is more a character who is used to show the messed-up state of the Sohma house/Akito more than she herself is a complex character, I think. I love her arc and her parallels to Yuki though, it gave us such a great quote about needing to be loved by others before learning to love yourself.

Hiro Sohma

Hiro is known to be an unlikeable brat but I love him as well!!! I think it’s really important to have characters who aren’t just lovely and receptive to Tohru’s kindness, and his character served to show an important flaw in Tohru’s character, and the way that her kindness could be taken advantage of. For Hiro himself though, I think his brattiness is alright because he’s very young, and I really appreciate his efforts to become a more mature person when he recognises his own flaws!

#fruits basket #yuki sohma #hatori sohma #akito sohma #kureno sohma #fruits basket spoilers #long post #asks #anonymous #Anonymous

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captain-of-the-historicfuture · 3 years

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~hello~ !! For the meta asks!: 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, and 25 :))

Hello!! Thank you for sending these; I was really excited to see that ask game and I was hoping somebody would send some in. It still took me a while to actually answer them though, and for that I apologise. But without further ado! Some meta answers (under the cut because they ended up being fairly long, whoops):

3. What is that one scene that you’ve always wanted to write but can’t be arsed to write all of the set-up and context it would need? (Consider this permission to write it and/or share it anyway.)

I thought of a few examples, but they could basically be grouped together under a common theme: whumpy/angsty scenes that were self-indulgent as all heck. The whole self-indulgent aspect often required the characters to be just the teeniest, tiniest bit OOC and/or necessitated rather unrealistic plot circumstances. So it was simply easier to keep such scenes as maladaptive daydreams, rather than trying to think of explanations for the character/plot issues…or exposing myself to judgement for them LOL.

Receiving permission to write/share one such scene anyway is an opportunity I can’t let slip by though. It might be because I’m writing this while running on zero (0) hours of sleep—let’s hear it for insomnia, y’all!—but I suddenly couldn’t remember any of my newer ideas under this category. However, I did recall a one-shot I had started writing a couple of months ago that sort of counts? “Sort of” because I could actually be arsed to write it since I was, ya know, writing it. Only got about six hundred words down though.

…should I share those six hundred words…?

………nahhh. I don’t think I’m quite ready for that yet.

But here’s the gist of it: Coulson and May (because of course it’s Philinda) were married for quite some time before the Attack on New York. But then Coulson DiedTM and then got ResurrectedTM. But gasp of horror, he had to lose his memories of his romantic relationship with May because reasons. (I actually did have some ideas for those reasons but sshhhh this is about me yeeting context and setup.)

The first half of S1 still happens as normal (except MayWard doesn’t happen because??? Vows) and it’s now post-E20 “Nothing Personal”. The morning after (or a morning soon after, whatever) the T.A.H.I.T.I. reveal! May’s mom—who doesn’t know about GH.325 and whom May fed a cover story about Coulson divorcing her or something equally as oof, IDK—shows up at the hotel and starts ripping into Coulson for breaking her daughter’s heart, then dragging her back into the field with her ex-husband (him), then accusing her of terrible things and forcing her away again.

Poor guy’s confused as heck, and so is the team, and soon enough so is Lian. The only one who understands what’s going on is May, and she’s freaking dying off to the side like why is this happening to me and eventually everybody’s like! Explain??? (Was thinking about including something from Coulson like, “Are you still keeping things from me?” Just for that extra smidge of angst, yay!)

So yeah then May gives a, like, two-sentence debriefing that elicits more questions than answers. Coulson decides to take May aside and they have a heart-to-heart. Lots of feelings and angst and hurt/comfort and at some point plenty of kissing too. Just! May hiding her feelings for Coulson’s sake but really magnified, plus some actual apologies and consideration of the grief May’s been through on Coulson’s part.

And uhh yeah that’s basically it I dunno hdsjncjshd. I warned y’all it’s OOC, plot-bendy, and very self-indulgent!

6. What character do you have the most fun writing?

I don’t think I could name a single character for this. I get different things out of taking on different voices, you know? I guess recently I’ve found myself gravitating towards more taciturn and introspective points of view, like JQ from my original novel Rosewood or M. Yisbon from my…other original novel Temple.

Generally, however, I like tackling stories from an outsider’s perspective. That’s why I so rarely write my more “substantial” (serious? demanding? for lack of better words?) projects from the PoV of my “preferred” character. This usually means writing from their love interest’s perspective, but not always. With shorter fanfic, using a more removed/unconventional/niche PoV can be really fun. Like, I once wrote a canon compliant ficlet purely(-ish) about Philinda from Tony Stark’s perspective. That isn’t always sustainable with stories that demand more character development or closer character studies, however, which is why it’s a good thing I like writing drabbles!

9. Are you more of a drabble or a longfic kind of writer? Pantser or plotter? Do you wish you were the other?

My word counts tend to run long, but I usually only write one-shots for fanfic. If I’m even inspired with a novella- or novel-length story idea for a fandom, you already know I’m in deep with them. And if I actually find the motivation to plan and execute that idea? Dangg. That’s only ever happened…twice, maybe thrice, and I’m in a lot of fandoms.

At times, I wish I could go for more of a middle ground ’cause, like, you know what I love to see? An AO3 dashboard with several completed novellas for my ship/character of choice. I mean yes, I hecking love >90k fics, but sometimes I’m in the mood for quick reads…and what am I supposed to do when I burn through all the drabbles and 2k one-shots? (Besides despair and/or reread my faves desperately.) Novellas are basically always safe for me LOL, and I’d hope to be able to give as much as I take.

Ultimately though, I think I’m okay with where I am with regards to that. I wish I could write more in general, but I’d be okay with “writing more” just meaning “writing more one-shots”, ya know? More than okay, really. I have mad respect for fic writers who have, like, a hundred or more one-shots under their belt for this one ship. The fandom ecosystem would be incomplete without them (as well as every other type of writer, but sshhh that’s the type of writer I’m closest to being right now).

I’m definitely a plotter, and I definitely prefer it that way. It’s cool having such a detailed record of my process. I like feeling like a frazzled genius on the brink of a major discovery with all of my different outlines and colour coding and many drafts and various websites.

12. Do you want your writing to be famous?

Not exactly. It might be cool if my original works were recognisable in the world, but I don’t think I’d want to be recognisable. As for fanfic, I’d low-key enjoy gaining a place in that fandom’s community as a fic writer. Like someone who gave and got fic gifts from fic writer friends, who participated in challenges and GCs, who received writing prompts on Tumblr, whose name was known for doing a certain trope/genre a bunch of times… Ya know what I mean?

Unlikely to happen when I’m so hecking hesitant to publicly (i.e., outside of AO3) claim credit for my writing, but fjnskfsjhfjs. A writer can dream, right?

15. Which is harder: titles or summaries (or tags)?

Of those three, tags are the easiest for me, for I have a reliable system for figuring out those.

Next easiest would probably be titles. For fanfiction, I like to use titles that are a quote from the source material. You should have seen all of my old Hamilton fanfic… I was really proud of some of those titles. And I don’t mean, like, whole lines—usually only two to five words. It’s a unique type of wordplay that I just love dabbling in.

And lastly, summaries. Sometimes inspiration strikes me and a snappy and intriguing synopsis just jumps out—one that I’m quietly pleased with—but most of the time I’ll spend way too long trying to think of such a synopsis and eventually just go with whatever I’d come up with so far. And live with my quiet dissatisfaction for the rest of time.

18. Do any of your stories have alternative versions? (Plotlines that you abandoned, AUs of your own work, different characterisations...?) Tell us about them!

Typically, no. If I have deleted scenes, I save and publish them separately, but that’s about it. I sometimes think of AUs for my own work and might talk about them in my author’s notes—might even talk about writing them—but I never really do anything with them.

Although…

It’s not uncommon for me to decide a plotline isn’t working for a certain story or to think of an interesting but undoable arc for a certain character, but what I’ll do is make a whole new story for those ideas. Once I’m done developing the original idea and the branched-off one, you probably wouldn’t be able to tell they grew from the same roots. Does that count?

21. What other medium do you think your story would work well as (film, webcomic, animated series, etc.)?

That depends on the story. I’ve actually written stories in other mediums—movie screenplay, musical stageplay, poetry, TV show scripts, play scripts, roleplay—but the novel does tend to be my comfort zone. Sometimes, if I have an idea that I think could work, or would even work better, as another medium, I’ll label it as such in my folder of ideas and decide not to write it as a novel.

Most of the time, my non-book projects are collaborations. I’m working with five different people on six different story ideas: two webcomics, one stage musical, one anime, and two animated TV shows. Little concrete progress has been made in any of those, mind you, but they’re still fun to discuss!

24. Would you say your writing has changed over time?

Absolutely. But I’ve been writing stories since I was five years old, so we would hope so, huh?

I wouldn’t say my writing’s changed completely, though maybe that’s just my insider’s perspective.

25. What part of writing is the most fun?

Oh gosh, I can’t believe you’d make me choose. Writing is just such a wonderful experience for me; I love just about everything to do with it. Admittedly, not all the time, but. Since that barely qualifies as an answer, however, I’ll give you this—

The endings. Not only that intense feeling of rightness when you wrap up that last sentence, but also the moments before. The adrenaline of knowing you’re almost there but you gotta push just a bit more to actually get there. And also the part right after—the real wrap-up, honestly: the revision and the editing. Heavens, I love revising and editing my work.

Which is not to say I don’t like writing it out for the first time, too—there’s nothing quite like seeing your cursor scroll to the next page, like going from a blank expanse to a Oh man, how many more lines are even going to fit on this page?, like watching that page counter tick up another number. However, there’s something cathartic about finally ironing out those problems I had to force myself to stop worrying about earlier because “just finish the first draft dangit”.

I guess that’s not really the end of the writing process, but whatever. Close enough (as fic writers are wont to say).

Another thank-you for these asks, and feel free to come back with more at any time! ;P

Send in fun meta asks for your friendly neighbourhood writer!

#thou canst not then be false to any man #ask game #invictusmaneo #to write and read comes by nature

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plum-pudding-and-honey · 4 years

Text

MONTHLY RANGE : Eight & Charley & C’rizz (1/2)

Scherzo - 2.5/5 : So... I really don't know how to rate it. Because I recognise the brilliance of the thing (excellent way of using the audio medium, the sound creature was brilliantly creepy and the atmosphere is so cringy but in a good way? Also Paul McGann and India Fisher are excellent and they do have good chemistry together). But I'm not a fan of Eight/Charley so this was kinda … annoying? I liked how the Doctor/companion relationship is explored and I like the fact that companions are memento mori (a nicer way of saying "pets", the Master gets it) but I really hated the idea that Charley was the first one the Doctor really loved (lol no) because like Rose and Clara, Charley is supposed to be """special""" (the difference being that Rose and Clara actually believe that they are special, it's not the case for Charley which is why I don't hate her with all my guts like the other two) in her relationship to the Doctor. Each and every companion has a special relationship with the Doctor, no one is special and the Doctor (whatever the incarnation) loves them all. Period. So yeah, having them mopping for two hours about "You said you loved me, you didn't mean it", "But I love you", "No, I don't love but actually I do, I'm just trying to protect you." was annoying. Just say you love each other, kiss or whatever and move on, but don't linger on it for THREE episodes, thank you very much. And then in the last part, the Doctor admits that he loves all his companions, so yeah great, but what was the point of saying that Charley was the first one half an hour before except pissing me off greatly? Despite all this, this was still a good illustration of my Eight-treats-his-companions-like-shit thesis. (Also, forgot to mention, Eight at the beginning whining about loses his senses … annoyingly brillant and sent me huge Eleven vibes). So yeah, I love some of it and hate other bits, so I guess I'll settle for something in the middle, rating-wise.

The Creed of the Kromon - 2/5 : It was going well pretty much until the end first part. Then it became a huge disappointment. We have two female characters, Charley and L'da, and they're both reduced to being reproductive tools for the Big Bad Bugs of the week and despite saving L'da being C'rizz motivation from the beginning, he just shoots her when he finds her without even considering trying something else to help her, I mean it's not like she begged that bad. And then he's ready to do the same to Charley. Great. Way to go. I hope this trigger-happy tendency will be corrected soon because I do find him an interesting character - I mean he's rough around the edges but there's way for amazing character development so please don't screw this up. The chameleon concept is also great (and wouldn't work on visual medium, let's be honest). Consider me hooked up for the Kro'ka/C'rizz arc (which I don't remember at all btw so that will be like listening to it for the first time). Also, I have to add that Eight's laugh in this episode cleared my skin, watered my crops and all of this. Also! I’m glad to have a Doctor + two companions dynamic, I really love it

The Natural History of Fear - 4/5 : So this was weird. I mean most of Eight's adventures in the main range are weird but this is another level of weird. Like they're really taking meta to the next stage. I don't have much else to say to be honest, except that it was difficult to follow at times but that I obviously loved the 1984 vibes. THIS IS THE VOICE OF LIGHT CITY. WELCOME TO YOUR NEW WORK DAY. TODAY IS HIGH PRODUCTIVITY DAY. Also that end twist *shocked*

The Twilight Kingdom - 2.5/5 : That's not particularly memorable. It really struggles to keep us hooked up for two hours and it didn't really work for me : I've lost interest and let my mind drifted several times and I was still able-ish to understand what was going on. That's not a good sign, people. The interesting bit was at the end with the return of the Kro'ka and how the mystery thickens about this weird place. Also Eight yelling "RASSILLON" at the end … someone's mad at daddy. We get to know a bit more about C'rizz which is always good to take since last episode didn't offer us any insight on his person at all. There's something definitely shifty and not coherent at all about him, like he's supposed to be a pacifist monk and yet, he's a pretty violent lad (I mean, this episode doesn't really count, he was controlled, but in the Creed of the Kromon he's not particularly gentle), which he acknowledges himself (I mean it could just be that being enslaved by the Kromon changed the man that drastically, but still...)

Faith Stealer - 3.5/5 : Ah! Finally we learn a bit more about C'rizz and we address what the hell happened in the Creed of the Kromon. Although, did he just get brainwashed into getting rid of his guilt, just like that? Because if that's the case, I'm gonna be very disappointed. I mean, I don't want him to suffer or anything but it all seemed a bit easy. Also, yeah, poor C'rizz, easily manipulated and preyed on by pretty much anyone is this freaking universe - can anyone give him a break for a second please? (also, is strangling Charley going to be a recurring thing or what? Because that is NOT ok, writers, no matter how much Charley jokes about it afterwards). Anyway, the plot was ok, the multihaven (or whatever the name of this place was, I don't remember) is an interesting concept (even more relevant today) and I really liked the idea that it's completely ok for anyone to worship literally anything without judgement.

The Last - 3/5 : Excelsior used a nuclear weapon to end a never-ending war and killed most of her people in the process? Excuse me? The unpredicted parallel with the Doctor and the Time War is up the roof people. And so I can't help thinking that this story would have been much better in a shorter version with a post Time War Doctor (can you see this with Nine, Rose and Jack? Because I definitely can and I'm not ok). Anyway. Charley doesn't get strangled this time but choked with a pillow. I don't know, do the writers have a kink about strangling/choking/killing women? And her death was the least credible possible with the Doctor moving on from it like twenty seconds after and absolutely not going into huge drama/self pity/extreme guilt mode, so you know she won't stay dead very long. I liked C'rizz very much here, he's actually growing on me much more than Charley. I like his loyalty and the fact that he has a much darker side, when it's actually well exploited.

Caerdroia - 5/5 : gfvbvgttybvgf THREE EIGHTS THREE EIGHTS T H R E E E I G H T S it's more than I can take. Hmm. So, i love the first part where the Doctor takes a nap (he deserves it) and sass the Kro'ka into telling him where the TARDIS is. I love him. Then we gets three versions of Eight and that's when I completely lost it. I also quite liked the crazy vibe of this episode, which felt a bit like Alice in Wonderland (again). The labyrinth part (or is it a maze??) was quite well done and the fact that it feeds off the Doctor, Charley and C'rizz subconscious was a nice to get to know them a bit more (especially C'rizz, whose annoyance with Tigger!Eight was very relatable). Charley and Eeyore!Eight was also priceless to be honest. And finally, finally, we get the TARDIS back and yeeeah! Also the Kro'ka is a frog vbyvegbvfy I can't

The Next Life - 2/5 : Excuse me but did this thing need to be that sexist? I mean... even Eight was a bit borderline a couple of times. I hated Charley in this episode, I hated how quick she was to judge C'rizz and how jealous she is throughout this audio when she's never really struck me as being jealous, especially not of C'rizz of all people. And it's a shame, really, because I was starting to think that maybe, she was getting less annoying. And most of all I HATED how her interactions with Perfection were depicted, how they bicker about the Doctor and, like, I get that it makes sense with Perfection being Zagreus and all, but it was very poorly brought, and ... just no. Also Perfection's relationship with Kip ... brrrr. Again, no. The plot in itself was not particularly memorable. It ends the Divergent Universe arc properly, the idea of this universe being in a constant cycle was kinda interesting and made sense with everything we had learnt so far so that's that. It was also nice to get to know more about C'rizz and I really like him more than Charley, and I hope he'll have a proper chance to find out who he is now. I'm definitely disappointed with this audio, it was way too long and problematic. (Just kudos for the Grace reference ... and it's made me miss Grace so I might rewatch the movie as a treat)

Overall opinion : Well I’m glad this is over. The Divergent Universe was an interesting concept but the quality of the episodes overall wasn’t very good and the way women are treated/depicted here is just a big NO. Big kudos for Caerdroia which was a nice surprise. The Natural History of Fear and Faith Stealer are good too, not as much though, and the rest, I’ll probably forget very soon, just like I did the first time. The only good thing to come out of this is my boy C’rizz

#doctor who #eight #eighth doctor #charley pollard #c'rizz #divergent universe #scherzo #the creed of the kromon #the natural history of fear #twilight kingdom #the last #caerdroia #the next life

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bellamygateoldblog · 4 years

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how do we feel about bellamy abandoning a suicidal octavia in a toxic forest in the name of monty, 'monty gave his life for us so we could have another change, and im not going to let you destroy it' who repeatedly made it clear in his final season that he wished he did more to save jasper

…we don’t feel great about it. Lol.

Got a little carried away. Apparently I had a stronger opinion on this on this than I thought I did.

There’s an LT;DR at the bottom if you don’t feel like reading the whole thing :)

The Blake relationship is a really complicated one. And I think how you see this event in particular depends on how you interpret this dynamic during the rest of the show, and how sympathetic you are towards Octavia as a character.

I want to start with this: the second chance was Monty’s to give, and only Monty’s. Bellamy doesn’t get to dictate who that message does and does not apply to, because Monty made it perfectly clear he holds no grudges, and wants the best for what’s left of the human race regardless of who they’ve been in the past or what they’ve done. That’s the whole point of ‘doing better’. He just wants everyone to do better than they did, whichever way that is. Monty didn’t specifically say ‘oh but not Octavia she can choke’ so therefore Bellamy had no right to be cowering behind Monty’s words.

He’s telling them to try a bit harder to be more understanding, compassionate, and rational. He wants them to choose to be farmers rather than warriors- to rebuild rather than destroy, to grow rather than deforest, to choose peace over war no matter what. It means a lot more than just ‘hey! maybe don’t go on another genocidal rampage?’

And by abandoning/banishing Octavia, Bellamy did the opposite of what Monty wanted. It almost felt, as i was watching, like he’d sentenced her to death. Like Clarke was banishing Murphy all over again. Or like he was Clarke abandoning him to die in the fighting pits. And I don’t know…repeating old mistakes doesn’t exactly scream ‘doing better’ to me.

Maybe this was Bellamy’s way of ridding the toxicity from the group?

But deciding she’s a lost cause and leaving her there, a clearly mentally unstable woman (and not only just some ‘woman’, but the baby sister he’s shared his life with), on an alien planet that none of them even know is safe at this point, or if it’s inhabited with hostile entities, from some moral high horse/manpainTM point of view is so low. It’s unearned at this point in the series.

Our attention was drawn to how hard it was for him. How upset he was after he did it. Rather than to Octavia and how she felt about it. It brought me back to that moment in season five, to how the camera focused in on Clarke’s pained teary-eyed expression while the child she was electrocuting was a blurry spot the background. Just what the fuck? Is all i have to say about that. He was very much Clarke in this moment; pulling a lever, leaving someone he loves on the outside *for the people* and feeling a bit ashamed but justified about it regardless.

She was trying to do the S1 Bellamy thing and stowaway to an alien planet to protect the one she loved. But the emotional fallout of season five was immense and both of them were way too amped up for any of it to go as planned. Which makes me wonder why the writers even attempted it in the first place?

But let’s just take a minute to think about how reckless and borderline insane this whole decision is from Bellamy- this is the girl who started out an illegal child, unwanted by the people she was born into, who assimilated with the indigenous people, earned their respect, found belonging with them until ultimately she became their leader. Like, if you really thought she was this much of a hazard, throwing her adaptive ass into the wilderness ready to meet another set of warrior people maybe isn’t the best idea you’ve ever had?

HOWEVER

I’m not actually opposed to a detail like this. Because of the unhealthy and sometimes poisonous nature of the Blake sibling relationship. And because they both absolutely needed time apart if Octavia were ever to grow out of Blodreina.

No matter what Monty never gave up on Jasper. But Jasper was usually self-destructive and didn’t act out emotionally using violence like how Octavia does so naturally. He could be a pain in Monty’s ass from time-to-time, but Jasper was never a threat to anyone but himself.

Bellamy cast Octavia out because she killed those guards unnecessarily. She hadn’t yet reflected on what became of her, nor had she processed any of the trauma from the bunker and following battle for Eden, in which some of the heaviest casualties were her most important relationships, with Indra, and with Bellamy. As convinient as it was to utilise violence as a tool for maintaining power, law, and order within the bunker…they aren’t in the bunker anymore, and she is no longer someone with a crushing responsibility.

Was any of that Bellamy’s fault? No.

Was it Bellamy’s job to ‘fix’ her? No.

(Do I think Monty would encourage him to mend their relationship anyway after losing his best friend and brother? Yes.)

But as her big brother and psudo-father, someone that spent his entire life protecting and taking care of her, the bare minimum i’d expect from him in a situation like this is for him to show some empathy, listen to the whole story from her point of view rather than basing his entire livelyhood on the biased accounts of a couple of Wonkru defectors, and make an attempt to understand why she is no longer the baby sister he remembers her being. If anyone was in the position to understand her- her behaviour, her mindset, the weight of leadership and how it shapes a person, and the pressure of making potentially morally corrupt decisions to ensure the people’s safety putting your humanity on the line for it- it’s him.

This was just cheap drama in place of where they could’ve written a meaningful conflict between them.

It was an oppurtunity to address Octavia’s past treatment of him, their co-dependence, their mother, Bellamy deeply believing his life was stolen from him and Octavia feeling she never had a chance to begin with, Bellamy’s inclination to make himself smaller so Octavia can take up as much space as she possibly can, both of their perverse insecurities that manifest in equally debilitating ways, Bellamy’s skewed sense of self pushing him to orbit around her, Octavia’s identity issues and lack of socialisation and resulting narrow black-or-white mindset, I could go on and on. There’s so so much content here to explore. There’s so much stress and pain in this relationship. It’s a shame that despite all that they decided to go omg cannibalism!!!!!!!!

Octavia took forever to forgive Bellamy for what happened to Lincoln, she demonised him, she attacked him over it in one of the most grotesque and unhinged displays of violence i’ve ever seen, and that wasn’t even his fault. I think we can afford Bellamy the same amount of room.

If this ‘banishment’ was the long-time-coming storm of past trauma of their intertwined existences that has long since been buried, if the time of physical peace spent on the ring building a family of his own pushed Bellamy to make a realisation or two about love and family, and the stressful draining qualities of his relationship with Octavia began to morph into resentment of her, and all this abandonment is, is just a beautifully crafted, carefully maintained facade collapsing between them, I WOULD LOVE IT. It’s understandable. But I need to see them have it out with each other first. If nothing is addressed, if they still go on carrying those things around and never find closure, not only is that hindering Octavia’s growth, but Bellamy’s, too.

But none of that happened in season six. Instead i got to see yet another female with her autonomy ripped from her and i got to see manpain.

Over time she supressed any parts of herself that would make her appear weak. It was always going to take time to pull herself out of that dark place and find a way to shape an identity that isn’t based in something that can easily be ripped away from her. So removing her from the group to find ‘the self’ is a good choice. But it had to be her choice.

I think if everything had blown up and Octavia had chosen to leave on her own volition because she recognises her own tragedy and calamity and wants to do what’s right, it would’ve been the perfect place to begin a redemption/reflection arc for her. With self-awareness. What do they say? The first step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one in the first place?

In an answer to another ask I said it would make some sense for Bellamy (and Clarke & Spacekru) to be unintentionally hypocritcal and judgemental considering the time distance between their last violent experience and how long they’ve had to make peace with the past. While Octavia was in the most stressful position she’s ever been in, and right in the thick of things for the six years that everyone else spent healing and maturing in.

So we have Bellamy as his most reassurred, most contented self- and he comes to Earth, he comes face-to-face with an unhinged Octavia, and is overwhelmed immediately with biased and incomplete information recapping the last six years during an erratic situation with enemies. I’d be confused and paranoid, too tf?

Bellamy loves Octavia more than life. But she’s morphed into a woman he no longer recognises and it could even come as a personal betrayal to him. He’s been disconnected from her for six years. He’s no longer intoxicated by his love and devotion to her. And he’s having a hard time accepting that the baby sister he thinks the world of is capable of such cruelty. So he’s having trouble forgiving her for it. I think it makes a lot of sense. Except, again, they never addressed anything like this.

Season five Bellamy I get. I’m sympathetic to him just as I am Octavia.

But in season six he appeared, not like he was acting on years of supressed emotional turmoil, but like he was on some moral high horse looking down on her from it.

The end of season five left things open, and there was a lot of potential there for things between them to improve, but season six took it and threw it out the nearest window. And we saw Octavia crawling on her hands and knees begging for forgiveness from a man that 1) doesn’t want her, 2) doesn’t respect her, 3) refused to listen to her, and 4) only accepted her once she was the woman he wanted her to be, who was now no longer traumatised.

TL;DR: I’m not opposed to the whole idea of them seperating in season six, with Octavia being the castaway, but it should’ve been Octavia’s choice, not Bellamy’s. And I think Monty might be disappointed that this was what (season six) Bellamy took away from his video on ‘doing better’. To ‘do better’ he decided to choose just one person that can represent all the evil that exists within both his people and himself and throw her out the dropship door. Problem solved! But there are many ways in which I think the writers could’ve done a lot more with this idea, and a lot better, too.

#hopefully this i objective I tried to make it so #the 100 #octavia blake #pro octavia blake #bellamy blake #rosie tag: share with the group #took me a couple days to answer so i hope whoever sent it will see

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villainever · 5 years

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Eve and the Performance of Morality

The "descent into darkness" as a format for a character arc is relatively common these days, especially in prestige television, and while it's more often played out with men than women, it's not unheard of as a trajectory for female characters. What's so interesting about Eve's development is how FAST it is happening. On a poorly-written show, this would be because the writers were rushing, too caught up in Point B to plot a satisfying journey there from Point A. But Killing Eve is basically a masterclass in good screenwriting, and it leaves us with the unshakeable feeling that this is the only way it COULD happen for Eve.

Other "descending" characters are so often ordinary, but transformed by their remarkable circumstances. They are pushed by the people around them and unfortunate events into compromising on their ideals and values, slowly shifting inch by inch until they've lost sight of who they were. And often, this is where they're killed off, or a redemption begins.

But even though she changes, Eve isn't transformed. She's REVEALED. And not just to us, but to herself. She isn't surrounded by people pushing her to darkness -- in fact, Elena, Hugo, Kenny, Jess and Niko are all trying to hold her back from it. Instead, she chases darkness. She follows Villanelle further and further, around a dozen corners in the gloom, and when the light's gone entirely, Eve realises that she can still SEE. Eve is made for the darkness, and Villanelle knows it from the beginning, but Eve is still working it out.

While I don't think Eve has the same compulsion towards violence that Villanelle does, I do believe they are an example of the nature/nurture conflict. Eve was raised by good people in a good place and got a good education, then married a good man and got a good job. "Nice and normal". At every turn, she was socialised and conditioned to mimic morality and empathy, and while Villanelle often acts this out as well, for Eve, the acting is still subconscious. She believes it comes from an innate impulse, rather than years of being told what to do and how to react. Neither Villanelle nor Eve really connect with people effortlessly on an emotional level, but Villanelle accepts that about herself, while Eve can almost pretend it's been bred out of her.

Eve's stable life and her moral framework are dependent on one another, so they implode at the same time. Staying in the realm of 'normal' with Niko necessitates a certain performance of conventional morality, but when Villanelle not only doesn't demand that performance but actually demonstrates an existence without it, Eve finds it harder and harder to maintain her home life.

Once the door has been opened, it can't be closed again. Eve is realising who she is, and more importantly, who she ISN'T. In 205, Martin says, "Don't add. Take away." And this is how we're experiencing Eve's arc. We take away outside pressure to be normal. We take away moral influences. We take away the expectation of goodness. And this leaves Eve looking a lot more similar to Villanelle than she's perhaps ready to admit yet to herself.

It's worth noting how Niko has identified Eve as self-obsessed, because she definitely is. But a lot of that self-obsession manifests in her fascination with Villanelle -- not only because Eve really likes Villanelle and stops caring about what distracts her from wholeheartedly pursuing her, but because Eve RECOGNISES some part of herself in Villanelle, and almost uses her as a mechanism for self-discovery. She watches what Villanelle does, and enjoys it, while being able to maintain the distance that comes from not having physically done it herself.

As I mentioned earlier, we've seen the "descent" arc before in modern television. One that springs to mind in Piper on OITNB. In S1, Piper commits increasingly selfish acts, but still considers herself a good person -- indeed, nothing she does can be really that bad, because she's a Good Person. Over S2 and S3, she continues downwards, until by S4, she's no longer able to reconcile the two versions of herself, so she decides she must be a Bad Person. Because of her pathological need to be liked, this doesn't work for her either, and ultimately, Piper ends up trying to do good things to become a genuinely Good Person.

Eve, I think, originally believed that she would hit some point like this, and bounce up from the bottom. But she won't. Why? Because at first, Eve thinks she needs people to like her, but she actually doesn't. She fires Kenny -- the last of their original team, the last person who knew Old Eve (not counting Carolyn, who has layers I won't get into here) -- and doesn't really miss him, or notice he's gone (eg. calling Hugo "Kenny"; they're interchangeable and missable). She wants Villanelle's attention, but Villanelle 'liking' her is different to the way other people might -- Villanelle wants her, is attracted to the best of the worst in her, is enjoying Eve's emergence from her crucible (or cocoon, depending on how you want to frame it). Eve's primary drive is Villanelle's interest in her, and that's certainly not holding her back in her journey.

Secondly, Eve doesn't actually care about being good. She's had numerous potential "wake-up call" moments -- stabbing Villanelle, facilitating the torture of the Ghost, nearly pushing the guy at the train station, Niko leaving, Villanelle killing someone right in front of her, etc. Yes, she had a minor breakdown over knifing Villanelle, but that was more the idea of Villanelle being gone than the stabbing itself, because the way Eve later says she thinks of it "all the time" doesn't sound as black and white as regretting it in its entirety; like Villanelle, she views it as a point of significsnt connection between them and I don't believe she'd let that go. Regardless, the point is that if she had a real gut connection to her moral compass, she would've bailed. Because really, her original mission is over. She caught Villanelle. She chased her and drew level and she's done.

But Eve's not done, because she's chasing not just Villanelle, but the Eve who can keep pace with her. She's chasing what Villanelle represents -- freedom from a system that doesn't fit Eve, not really.

What we have to remember, though, is that Eve has been socially and ideologically programmed for forty-five years. Most sociopaths lead typical lives and have long-term relationships and never really dig too deep into their psychology. It's doable. This is why Eve is slipping fast but not faster -- she's had a taste of liberation from her constraints, but her skin has long since grown over those shackles, so it's hard not to see them as a part of herself, and difficult to get them off.

But they'll come off, because Eve isn't a quiet woman with an average husband and a respectable government job. Eve is a chameleon, the way Villanelle is, only she's less deliberate and has been playing her character for far longer.

Which leads me to Villanelle's speech on life being boring and why it was so important for Eve to hear it. If we look at classic "chaotic" characters like Eve and Villanelle, they're often motivated by boredom, or rather, the desire to escape it. Villanelle and Eve are stuck in a world designed for other people.

The fact is, Eve has been bored forever. Eve was bored long before the pilot, when she was stuck in a holding pattern with Niko and imagining how she'd kill him, not because she wanted him gone but because it was INTERESTING. When she started keeping track of a female assassin but not even trying to report her, because she wasn't aiming for justice but ENTERTAINMENT.

Another fascinating element of their dynamic is that we as an audience are usually positioned to root for a redemption, but with Eve, we can't imagine anything more disappointing. We don't need her to turn it all around, we need her to dive in. Not only because it makes for a fresh storyline, but because great arcs are about characters finding who they are, and we have already grasped who Eve is. Along with Villanelle, we're waiting on her to realise it and act on it. Eve returning to her normal life would be a wolf among sheep, and I think Eve has gone too far. Not in that she's committed serious crimes she'd always be guilty of -- although she's getting close -- but because Eve is coming to understand she's not who she imagined she was, and any performance after this will be a conscious one. A decision to pretend. And guess what? That'll get boring, too. We root for a darkening Eve because we want her and Villanelle to escape that boredom, and escape it together, and forgetting this ever happened is not a way to do that.

I've smashed this out on my phone because I had a lot of thoughts and I'm not going to proofread because no one will actually read this. But essentially, I think we can expect Eve to continue using Villanelle as a proxy for a little while longer, until she's ready to cut loose her parachute. She hasn't committed to this yet because she doesn't want to forfeit the possibility of her old life to go back to (which is why she was upset over splitting from Niko even though she couldn't care less when he's actually around), but once she is reminded how horribly BORING it was, there'll be nothing to hold her back anymore. Because better to flame and implode than be smothered in a kitschy kitchen with a man you imagine blending up and pouring into a thermos. Better to be true and horrible than be nothing.

If you did read this thank you and I promise I'll stop writing mini essays and go back to regularly scheduled memes in a moment. I don't really do these because they don't interest anybody, but lmao, these two always get me thinking. hmu if you wanna trade theories lol.

#killing eve #ke #eve polastri #eve x villanelle #villanelle x eve #villanelle #oksana astankova #eve x oksana #ke analysis #mine #villainever #dont mind me just speculating #killing eve s2 #killing eve season 2 #villainever writes #villanevest writes

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gentlemen-i-am-fucked · 5 years

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So... I have mixed feelings about this chapter.

On the one hand, everything’s been cleared up! Where everyone stands has been flat-out stated so that all readers can be on the same page. John is very clearly not a good guy anymore, no matter how sympathetic he was in the past, and trying to argue that he’s not is just wishful thinking at this point.

On the other hand... I’m not too happy with this new direction. John was quite clearly set up to be a sympathetic protagonist, powers be damned, and he was a good one. He had in the past fallen victim to an unhealthy mindset and become a toxic person, which he had recovered from to become more healthy and willing to work constructively towards a better society. Nowhere is this more prevalent than in the flashbacks he shares with Sera - he singlehandedly convinced her to reject the trappings of a toxic society. That arc is extremely cathartic to read as a result.

All in all, John was great. He was easy to root for and feel for, and his struggle seemed so organic - he could have just shown off and become king of Wellston, but instead he recognised his weaknesses and played to his strengths, trying to create reform from the ground up, even if it mean he had to sacrifice a great deal of personal comfort and get socially ostracised and beaten up every day.

There’s a reason John at the beginning of the story we so compelling, and that was his motivation. He had recognised a failing and a shortcoming in society, and he was willing to do anything to fix it organically, rather than just jumping at it from a position of power like Rei did, and the superheroes did. These characters showed us why John’s organic approach was so essential in a society so opposed to change, and we respected John for his goals.

This was also a reason why the twist that John was a high-tier was so good - reliably, one who is oppressed will be looking to fight oppression, but John is made so much more interesting because he very specifically isn’t one of the oppressed group. In fact, he’s one of the elite. Everything he suffers, he suffers out of choice and not necessity. Sure, he may have experienced oppression previously (whilst researching John, Isen found records that before his second-year in Bostin, John was very lowly-ranked, perhaps even a true ‘cripple’), but he was very quick to shed that and embrace elite life when his true ability became apparent. Invariably, John at the beginning was an altruistic individual who had grown from his mistakes and decided he would give up everything he could have based on his ability - a high social standing, a universal respect, and a comfy life - in favour of trying to combat the hierarchy. This is what made his friendship with Sera so powerful and great - he worked for it, and worked to help her break out of a toxic mindset like he had done. It’s why Arlo’s betrayal hurts so much - John offered olive branches, tried to make Arlo see that there was a better way, and yet Arlo still looked at him and saw someone to be taken down.

This is why I took such a dislike to the Joker arc. It took everything impressive and compelling about John’s character and took the tipp-ex to it like gritty live-action reebok would have done. The fact that John’s character was boiled down to “lol AGRESSIVE EDGY WHITE BOI” was in part frustrating because we’d specifically seen him grow past this, goddamn it, and because it took away everything that made him so compelling.

Now, we have other characters - namely Remi, Blyke, and Isen - stepping in to fill the role of Plucky Heroes Working to Better Society, with Remi specifically following a similar trajectory to John at the beginning of the story.

Just one problem.

If this was the story that wanted to be told, why did we spend 100+ episodes on John’s character arc, which was erased with the purchase of one (1) mask and some very bad decisions? If Remi was supposed to be the ubiquitous hero, then why didn’t we also start with her as the protagonist? If John was supposed to become an evil dickbag and a villain, why didn’t he start out as a thinly-veiled dickbag who played with others and manipulated them because he wanted to watch the world burn, instead of a sympathetic protagonist who suddenly does a 180?

I know it sounds like I’m bashing unordinary - and that’s not my intention, I really do love the comic, and Remi, Blyke and Isen, I would die for - but this complete butchery of John’s character vexes me to no end, precisely because he was so compelling.

Right now, it seems that the Joker arc is being salvaged, and things are being clarified after the muddle that had thrown the status quo into a cell and mangled it. Don’t get me wrong, it’s great to shake up the status quo - but the way it was done here also twisted the characters, making it seem like the story was driving them instead of the other way round.

I feel this like from Isen sums it up.

If someone had told me this about John before the Joker arc, I’d have asked them which dark AU this was from. Now, it fits John’s character, but at the same time, John’s character no longer fits him as we knew him. He’s spiralled into anarchy and chaos with seemingly very little reason - sure, Arlo had him beaten up and Sera was picked on after she lost her ability - but given that he’d been taking this shit on the chin and wearing it, that shouldn’t have been enough to make him go full dark side!

However, I do feel the story has taken on a direction I’m more on board with; namely, that students are taking responsibility and trying to better their society. Even so, I still feel a little sad about what we lost. I enjoyed Remi’s line about John, and it’s satisfying to see her recognise that John’s not just some Edgy but Saveable Good Boi UwU (looking at you, Kyle Ron), but still, the wording was a little bittersweet.

I, for one, would have loved it if that were true.

#unordinary #unordinary meta #guys i swear i love uno i just ramble a lot about it #unordinary analysis #unordinary webtoon #webtoon meta #uno meta #unordinary rambles #i’m so sorry if this comes off as bashing it’s not meant to #no insult meant to the author i just disagree with some of the story decisions #okay i’ve made up my mind #the next 3 things i post about uno have to be positive #i don’t want to be a salty bitch

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noddytheornithopod · 5 years

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Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - Initial Thoughts

So yeah, this is a thing. Of course I’m gonna discuss spoilers in-depth, but I’ll put that under the cut. If you want a spoiler free summary, here:

It's not perfect, and I particularly struggled with the first act and it's really fast pacing (JJ LEARN TO SLOW DOWN), but I'm not gonna pretend I didn't enjoy it overall. As long as you're not attached to certain specific ideas and willing to accept it for what it is, you might like it well enough. That being said, I can already see this is gonna be at least as divisive as TLJ unfortunately.

Okay, first thing’s out of the way: I was aware of the leaks about the film, and I can confirm that they were pretty spot on overall. It sucks 99% of the plot got out, there’s a few moments that thankfully didn’t get mentioned in any leaks I saw, so yeah. Anyway, time to get started.

Okay, yeah, the pacing. Definitely my biggest issue with the film. It’s an issue I have with The Force Awakens’ first act too, but there it at least was able to do enough to establish the characters. Here the story moves along relentlessly. Honestly, for the first act, in fact right until Rey and Kylo Ren’s Kijimi confrontation, I struggled to keep up. So much happened, so much exposition and action I felt like nothing really got to land. There wasn’t any time to breathe or let the characters have more moments. I’m not sure if the Rey/Kylo fight on Kijimi was just a major emotional turning point that finally had me properly hooked, but from there either I finally got into the film’s groove or it actually learned to slow down a bit, at least enough for things to actually land instead of BAM NEW SCENE BAM NEW SCENE.

My other biggest issue with the film is something that unfortunately couldn’t be helped: the handling of Leia. It’s VERY clear they were writing around the cut scenes from The Force Awakens, and how vague and generic her lines were REALLY showed. Because of this, her death scene didn’t really work for me? In fact, I’m not even sure why she chose to reach out to Kylo Ren at that specific point, either it was Force shenanigans feeling it was the right time SOMEHOW knowing he was at a vulnerable point or I really missed something (see this is why you don’t pace things at the speed of light, JJ :V). THAT BEING SAID... I can’t really fault the filmmakers for this, because this is obviously the best they could’ve done without a controversial recasting (especially if they used CGI to make the new actress look like Carrie Fisher). It’s clear this was a really hard job, and I can tell they did the best with what they had.

I mentioned the first act was too fast paced, but I actually really dug the opening with Kylo Ren. Palpatine obviously sensed the First Order had subjugated the galaxy, so it was time for him to come out and reassert control with his secret Sith Fleet, hence the message in the crawl. But yeah, Kylo Ren finding the wayfinder and traveling to Exegol only to discover Palpatine was an excellent sequence that really got things getting exciting.

For specific things here: first, Exegol is an awesome planet. It’s perfectly creepy and the best place for the final showdown to take place. The sound design for the place was particularly great. Visually, it’s all epic. I’m also curious about its history - C-3PO says it’s apparently a Sith Homeworld, though I wonder if this is more like an origin point given Moraband was also a Sith Homeworld. Oh look, I’m being a nerd, lol.

I love how Snoke was handled purely because it’s so hilariously anticlimatic and I can see so many people getting mad at it. Like seriously... Palpatine so casually going “I made Snoke” says SO much. Everyone was making up elaborate theories on who he was and why he’s a thing but in reality, he’s just some dude created in a lab for Palpatine to puppet while he’s gone. :P One has to wonder how Snoke felt about the whole thing, literally being made just to be an interim ruler for former Imperials before Palpatine was ready to return, while also being a powerful Dark Side user himself (wow geez, Palpatine can make super Dark Side users now).

Palpatine himself was definitely one of the best parts of the movie, Ian McDiarmid’s performance alone was worth it. I definitely get why JJ chose to bring him back, I agree it feels appropriate for the main Star Wars villain to have a presence in the new trilogy in some way. For how he comes back, it’s curious. The way he speaks and looks, he’s pretty much dead, Palpatine literally says he died in fact. As for how he’s back, he just says his infamous “the Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities, some to be considered unnatural.” Look, it’s SO on the nose and cheesy, but because I’m a nerd I loved hearing that line again. From how I understand it, he’s basically a weird Dark Side zombie, I mean he has a downright undead appearance. It’s not actually explained how he survived, but I kinda don’t mind that it’s currently mysterious? I have some theories based on EU stuff I might go into later but basically, he’s now Zombietine and he’s somehow ended up on Exegol with his weird Sith cult devotees making Snokes and building the Sith Fleet while influencing what he can from afar. Speaking of which... his “I’m every voice you have ever known” line pretty much confirms it was HIM who was talking to him through Darth Vader’s helmet, not a remnant of Vader himself. Him using Snoke’s voice in that line even makes me wonder how much free will Snoke has, and whether him being a puppet is more literal than we think.

Leia like I said I felt despite doing the best they could it didn’t fully work, but I can see how Leia would’ve tried being a Jedi but decided not to follow through with it. I mean, ghost Luke couldn’t always show up, so Rey would need advice from the closest thing to a remaining Jedi.

Pasana was hectic. Given a lot of the first act was there, that and the Resistance scenes on Ajan Kloss were most of what really rushed. Like, you have potential great moments, but the fast pace means the story needs to move on so nothing can land. There’s attempts at character moments but they don’t have time to breathe. Like, even Lando returning just whisked by because of the pacing.

Lando was good I guess. Not much stuff for him, but what we had was cool I guess. It sounds like he was hunting for a wayfinder with Luke, though I guess one wonder why Luke was looking for Exegol? Was this after he confronted Snoke (see the new Kylo Ren comic, that confirms that was a thing that happened, oh look more nerdy shit only I care about) and was looking for answers on what Snoke was up to, did he just want to make sure the Dark Side wasn’t fucking things up, or was he feeling like something was off? Anyway, Lando: obviously he’s a minor character, but him bringing all the ships at the end was cool.

Much of the stuff on Kijimi was pretty fast up until the lighsabre duel of course, so there was issues there too. Zorri’s introduction sped by so it never really landed, she goes from “maybe I’ll turn you over” to “fine I’ll help” VERY fast. Same with C-3PO’s memory wipe scene - the story does finally start to steady a bit and it did have me feeling things, but it still goes by too fast for it to fully land. Poe and Zorri’s one on one was a bit better, though again Zorri changing her heart so fast doesn’t really work for me.

Thinking about it, I did like Poe’s arc in the movie well enough. It could’ve been smoothed out but I did like how even he was struggling with the forces they were up against, and learned to have hope even in this dire situation. That’s why I like the chat with Zorri - even if her character feels rushed, it did establish Poe’s central arc and we see how that plays out.

Finn I feel like doesn’t have much of an arc here? Like, I know his storyline in The Last Jedi was divisive, but at least he did have a major arc there and had major growth. Here, I guess his arc is concluded, but then he’s just kinda along with the crew? I really liked the scene where he met Jannah and discovered more First Order deserters, but unfortunately that didn’t really end up going anywhere. Finn and Jannah are a cool duo, but in the climactic battle they kinda felt like an afterthought? I mean, even Poe and the ship stuff kinda did, but at least I kinda got what was going on there. With Finn and Jannah it’s just “we’re on Pryde’s Star Destroyer, destroy some shit” and... that’s it? Probably the most interesting thing with Finn in the movie was how open he was to the Force. Like obviously he couldn’t sense it, but he definitely believes in and trusts it, and it makes sense how that helps a lot of decisions he makes, especially after befriending Rey.

Jannah was cool but like I said she doesn’t really get much to do. I think what people will mainly focus on is that final scene with Lando, which was TOTALLY not suggesting Lando’s her dad. It’s a shame, because the First Order deserter stuff could’ve lead to some cool stuff, but I can see the film probably couldn’t fit it in with how much it’s trying to do.

Rose was an afterthought. I didn’t expect her to be in it much so I prepped myself for that, but I was at least happy to see she was still around. :) I wonder about how Finn looked at her at the end though, was that supposed to suggest romantic feelings? Kinda funny given they drop the Finn wanting to tell Rey something plotline, which I suspect was meant to imply romantic feelings?

On the topic of romance, Poe and Zorri, meh. And to literally nobody’s surprise, the queer couple we see is two Resistance women having a kiss at the end. At least one is a character that kinda exists, even if I don’t even know her name and just know she’s important enough to be sooorta recognisable given she was in The Last Jedi? It’s pretty anticlimactic, but nobody was expecting the representation to be significant anyway. :P Still better than Endgame from the sounds of it though.

Okay, I wanna discuss Hux. His role is small, but he’s as pathetic as ever and it’s glorious. So one plot point is that there’s a spy feeding intel to the Resistance, and then when Finn, Poe and Chewbacca are captured on the Star Destroyer above Kijimi we discover... Hux is the spy. He didn’t even have a change of heart and turned good, he simply just hates Kylo Ren. :P Like damn, helping the enemy purely out of spite, that’s something alright. And as soon as the heroes escape, Pryde just knows instantly he’s the spy and shoots him without a second thought. Yep, that’s how Hux goes out. Pryde is just there to be the evil military leader of course, and he works in that part.

Rey definitely was a major force in carrying the film, like of course she is given she’s the central protagonist but her story just holds up the best for me. Probably one of my favourite things about it was that we finally got to properly explore the Dark Side in her, and of course that becomes a big part of her story here. It’s something we’ve seen in the past two films, but here it actually becomes a focus.

Okay, let’s talk about Rey’s family. Specifically, how she’s Palpatine’s granddaughter. I’m sure some people who are VERY attached to the “nobody” thing in The Last Jedi will dislike this no matter what, but I still think it works? I will however say that it’s VERY cheeky how they go “oh your PARENTS are nobodies, but your GRANDFATHER IS A BIG DEAL AND YOUR DAD JUST CHOSE TO FUCK OFF”. Weird cheekiness aside, I guess I don’t mind the reveal because for one, Star Wars is a family saga, so I see how this works into things, plus it helps justify Palpatine’s return? But perhaps more importantly, I think the film still honours the ideas from The Last Jedi in a way - yes, Rey may have found she has a major lineage after all, but said lineage comes from the most evil man in the Universe. However, her ancestry doesn’t define her, her family isn’t important, who SHE chooses to be is. Luke outright says blood isn’t everything. Luke and Leia figured out she was somehow a Palpatine descendant, but accepted her anyway because they saw her potential for good. I will say I hoped the nobody thing stuck to being literally myself, but this is a nice compromise that I can work with and has a nice message to it. Also, I should emphasise this: just because this changes how we might see The Last Jedi, it doesn’t mean that what the film explores and says is meaningless. In fact, I think the film goes out of its way to make sure it still matters even if JJ obviously had his own ideas on where to take the story. Whether she’s nobody or connected to someone significant, Rey’s destiny is her own to forge and its still about her, not who she’s connected to.

There’s also this Ochi dude who was around doing work for Palpatine while he was around, and he killed Rey’s parents. Kylo initially assumed he wanted to kill Rey, but in reality Ochi was meant to bring Rey to Palpatine early.

Luke’s appearances were cool. I’m sure some people who love TLJ and dislike this film might cynically take his “a Jedi’s weapon deserves more respect line” as a diss against TLJ, but you have to remember: TLJ was literally about Luke finding hope and something to believe in again. Of course he’d get over his cynicism, everything he said about the Jedi was right, but TLJ’s point is that instead of just burying everything wrong with the past, we learn from its failures and take what’s still good to form something better. That’s what Rey’s meant to do with the Jedi. And I mean, the reason him catching the lightsabre Rey throws works at all is because of the surprising moment where he tosses it away in TLJ.

So, Kylo Ren. I enjoyed his storyline. Like, even when he discovers Palpatine and is made to serve him, he’s already secretly hoping to get Rey on his side for them to take him out and rule together (presumably as the new Sith Lords?). He’s pretty brutal and evil in a lot of the film. Also... I LOVE how they expanded on the Force connections. I love me some freaky World Between Worlds style space bending shit. Like, they even fight even though they’re on different locations. As for the mask, I’m sure someone has a better read on it but I think with Palpatine back and being made to be subservient to another master, he puts it together to seem more intimidating again even though the cracks show the facade (the cracks are based on Kintsugi, a Japanese art or craft where repaired things have the lines of where they were broken visible to emphasise how things have changed since they were broken... someone can explain it better but yeah). With the Force Dyad, I have to wonder: is it something Snoke specifically created when he bridged their minds and left that connection to fester (as we see it still is there after all given what happens here), or was it something the Force always had with them?

So, the big scene on the Endor moon with Kylo Ren (I assume Kef Bir if it’s really called that is a different moon to the forest one from Return of the Jedi). Rey’s already struggling with the darkness after the vision of her dark self, but she goes pretty dark during her fight. She strikes Kylo down in a moment he doesn’t fight back, and said moment was him sensing Leia’s passing. Like I said, I don’t feel like her death was handled that well, though it could just be circumstance with Carrie Fisher’s passing. It’s oddly meta as well - she seemed to know reaching out to her son would kill her but did it because she believed it would save him. So she kinda fridged... herself???? It’s weird, I’m not sure how to feel about it. Is it really worth dying just for your son who’s running what will become a new Empire? And if she was dying already, they didn’t establish it at all. It just happens out of nowhere. And I mean, at least it works, Kylo Ren still has some heart left and feels sad about his mum, and then we get... Han Solo. They do say it’s a memory, but I wonder if this was Force induced. Even if the Leia stuff doesn’t work for me, I still liked the scene with imaginary Han. It’s very on the nose with its parallels to TFA, but it still works I think. Also let’s be real... Kylo Ren deciding to stop being a space fascist just because his mum died, that’s not exactly the kind of person I would still feel safe around lol.

If Kylo Ren has an actual redemptive moment, it comes later. Honestly, him showing up in the final battle to help Rey against Palpatine was pretty cool. Like I said, he’s only really doing this because mum dying made him sad, but hey at least he’s fighting the bad guys, right? Yeah, I’m sure you can tell I’m not the biggest Kylo Ren fan. I just feel like his internal conflict isn’t that compelling compared to what Anakin went through, who is much easier to empathise with, not to mention Kylo Ren is honestly pure redemption bait compared to Vader, who didn’t even have plans on redemption until he was made Luke’s father, lol. But rambling aside, his stuff in the climax was awesome. Rey giving now Ben Solo the Skywalker lightsabre through their Force connection was one of the coolest moments of the movie, and bam he just wrecks the Knights of Ren the moment he gets a new sabre (after throwing his own one away).

Palpatine in the climax is curious, because I’m not actually sure what his ultimate goal was: was it to be killed off for good by Rey, or did he always count on Ben/Kylo to show up to get the Force Dyad in place to drain their life force to rejuvenate himself? I mean, he seemed to find Leia’s sacrifice incredibly unexpected in how it made Kylo turn away from the Dark Side, so it seems like he was ready to be killed, though TBH it actually sounds like he very well could’ve possessed her. I actually want to know what this whole Sith thing is about. He says that all the Sith that have ever lived live on through him, which I guess is something that started with the Rule of Two given it follows that philosophy. The apprentice kills their master, but their master and all subsequent masters have what’s left of them transferred into them. It’s an eerie way Darth Bane can still be around for the day the Sith rule the galaxy. Still, I have to wonder how it works. For someone like Rey who wasn’t an actual Sith, it sounds like all the Sith souls would’ve corrupted her, or Palpatine would outright possess her. I know most people don’t care about this nerdy stuff, but I do so lol. This whole Sith souls thing is intriguing and I look forward to EU stuff exploring it more. I want to know if it’s like Rey and her reaching out for the Jedi souls, or the Sith literally all pile up into this monstrosity and the master becomes a single entity.

Anyway yeah, Palpatine drains Rey and Ben to rejuvenate himself so he can live again. This is the exact kind of creepy Dark Side stuff I’m here for. Ben tries to stop him, but he’s thrown down a chasm. Sheev immobilises the entire Resistance fleet, but Rey is able to draw in his attention, and when she uses both the Skywalker and Leia’s lightsabres she calls on the souls of past Jedi to give her the power to defeat Palpatine (something foreshadowed at the start where she tries to reach voices of past Jedi). So there’s lots of juicy cameos for sharp eared listeners. First, we hear Obi-Wan saying a homage to his TFA line, but with final instead of first steps. We hear LOTS of Jedi, but I was just happy we heard Anakin. I would’ve liked him to have a bigger appearance, sure, but I’m happy he existed at all. He says something like “bring balance again, just as I did”, which is pretty cool, and further cements Anakin as The Chosen One. It’s just Sheev refusing to stay truly dead caused another fuckup that Rey needed to solve. This arguably could change how one reads the Chosen One prophecy, but it still works with it being Anakin. Rey is stopping the Sith from being revived because as I said, Palpatine is basically a zombie and arguably not even really alive. I’m sure one could argue it’s changed, and Yoda DID say the prophecy could’ve been misread, but I’m sure it might feed interesting discussions... I just hope they’re not shitty toxic ones like we always get. For me, the coolest moment was when it concluded with QUI-GON JINN. You know, the Jedi who started it all. Look, Jedi voices is obviously fanservice, but this is fanservice I eat up like the hopeless nerd I am. :V We also heard non-movie Jedi like Kanan (I got so excited when I saw him in the credits I had to explain to the guy next to me my outburst lol), and it seems even ex-Jedi like Ahsoka were included. Given these are Jedi who are supposed to have passed on into the Cosmic Force, I have to say this doesn’t look good for Ahsoka. Not sure if Ezra was in there either, but if he was, then welp indeed. I’m officially worried for them, and whatever evil plans Dave Filoni has for them.

So yeah Rey beats Sheev, but it takes the life out of her to do so. BUT WAIT... BEN SOLO LIVES. Well, for now. Not gonna lie, I got excited when I saw him climb out of that chasm, I was like YEAH GO SAVE REY MAN. I literally heard someone cheer when he climbed out too. Rey of course did the Force healing thing on him before (and earlier on a serpent creature), but to bring her back Ben uses that same ability at the cost of his own life. But before he dies... Rey kisses him. Okay Reylos, you win. Not gonna lie though... I actually didn’t mind that moment? *raises internet hate mob shields* Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suddenly a Reylo convert so no need to cancel me or whatever you guys do, but for what it was, I didn’t mind it? Ben comes back knowing he’s going to probably die saving Rey, but does it anyway. When I said I feel like his true redemptive moment comes later than moping about Leia, this is what I meant. Before, he joined Rey to not betray his mother’s ideals and because of his connection with her. But now, he knows he’s a goner but wants her to live so he sacrifices his life to revive her. Like, this is a proper selfless act. He probably thinks she deserves to live more than he does after the shit he’s put everyone though anyway. It also averted my biggest concern with the Reylo thing - I was worried that it would end up making Rey’s story about saving Ben Solo like all the fan theories wanted, but here it was still firmly Rey’s story. If anything, Ben came to serve her story by letting her live on lol. So yeah, Reylo happened for like a minute... I somehow expect BOTH sides of the debate to be angry. The hardcore Reylos and “Bendemption” people will be upset because Ben dies, but the anti-Reylo people will hate it because Reylo happens at all, even for a second. And here I am, who’s just here like “that was a nice sweet moment plus yeah I want Rey to live over Ben lol”.

Okay, I should say that the whole climax got me smiling. From all the ships across the galaxy arriving to help to Rey getting power from past Jedi, to them melting away Palpatine (yeah he’s not surviving literal disintegration from force lighting deflected with the help of dead Jedi lol), to them taking out the Sith Fleet and everyone celebrating, it just was happy and more importantly, hopeful. Look, I get why people might not be into this movie, but I was genuinely giddy during this climax of not just a film or trilogy, but a now nine part saga (and yes it’s definitely staying as a nine part Skywalker Saga after Ben died, Rey only takes the name to honour the past). It really did feel like a big epic finale. Sure, like I said some of the stuff in the battle could’ve been fleshed out more, but the dumb nerd part of me enjoyed the epicness of it and its climax anyway.

The final scene was nice I guess. Rey finding an identity for herself she feels secure in, and the Luke and Leia ghosts was nice. Also the yellow lightsabre’s first film appearance signalling something new to come.

D-O was there I guess. Didn’t focus much on him and BB-8. C-3PO of course had a fair bit going on and his memory wipe did have some emotional impact even if we recover quickly because FAST PACE. R2 had some nice moments, I felt bad for him when 3PO didn’t recognise him actually, though of course R2 backs up whatever memories he has left of him (IDK what memories R2 had though). I wonder why C-3PO had a thing in his memory blocking him from translating Sith runes though.

Yeah, okay, there were a few fanservicey moments, I already mentioned some of course. Some felt like natural parallels but just with JJ’s lack of subtlety, there were a few that felt on the nose, but many were genuinely fun. Since it’s not just Return of the Jedi 2.0 but a new story that still has a few parallels (naturally, I need to dig for the ROTS and Phantom Menace ones next), it doesn’t feel as in your face as The Force Awakens which called back to so much of A New Hope and the Original Trilogy. But I mean, stuff like the Wedge cameo was cool (though ouch his son in law is dead, JJ killed off one of his best friends in Snap Wexley lol). IDK what the Tantive IV is back, but hey I can work with it. Since it’s capping off the whole saga, it calls back to all three trilogies and doesn’t hyperfocus on just one so it feels less over the top, to me anyway (or maybe my Prequel bias is showing lol).

So yeah... definitely not a perfect film, with a pretty rough first act, but I don’t think it’s a disaster like some people see it as. Could some things have been handled better? Definitely. Would I have preferred George Lucas’ ideas for the Sequel Trilogy instead despite them probably having less popular appeal? Yeah, I’m a weirdo, I know. But look, I went into this film simply wanting to enjoy it for what it was. And for what it was, I’d say it was mostly good. Sure, there’s rough patches, but the good parts are really good.

#sw spoilers #star wars spoilers #star wars #episode ix #episode 9 #the rise of skywalker #sequel trilogy #skywalker saga

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safflowerseason · 5 years

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(Part 3) 4) also, re: season 7 so far, and keep in mind I’m two episodes in, I don’t even recognise Dan, and to a lesser extent Amy, anymore. I don’t even feel I’m watching Veep anymore, not as it was set out for the first four seasons. Is Mandel known to be the devil or something? What in the frack was this vision of the characters meant to be - ‘evolved’? Or does he just hate them? 5) I hated what he did to the Selina and Amy relationship too. Does Mandel hate women? Is this a known thing?

These are all questions that we’ve been batting around on here since the finale aired in May (which is when I got on Tumblr, incidentally, because I had to take my Veep feelings somewhere.) To a certain degree, there’s never going to be a solid, black-and-white answer to any of them, really. You can read everything David Mandel ever said in public about his vision for Veep, you can close-read what the actors say on press tours…but it’s just not the same as being in the room. And certainly, it’s worth pointing out that all shows evolve, and they gain and lose fans through those changes. No show ends the exactly the same as when it started (although…some shows manage this evolution better than others.)

So, now that I’ve gotten my neutral disclaimer out of the way, I can get on with the fun ranting.

4) Dan is absolutely unrecognizable in S7 from how he appears even at the end of S6, barring little flashes here and there. While Amy’s general arc holds together slightly better than Dan’s, she still suffers from some major out of character moments in 7.02, as we all were just discussing recently. (Dan’s arc just makes no sense.) 7.02 is just rough on all counts. Unless you’re an avid Selina/Tom shipper in which case you probably got something out of it.

Also—and this is a general pet peeve of mine, as a California native—the episode is supposd to take place in Colorado and yet was so clearly filmed in Southern California (they posted a ton of pictures from the ranch where they filmed). Like, there are parts of California that resemble Colorado, but you have to go a little further than Malibu to get there. (I have the same beef with Parks and Rec. It’s so obviously not Indiana.)

Mostly, what it all boils down to is bad writing. I don’t care if Mandel thought Dan and Amy would never work as a couple. That’s fine. That’s a legitimate opinion. Run your show the way you want, dude. What I do care about is bad writing. It is bad writing when in 7.01, Amy seems intent on having the baby without Dan, and then in 7.02, suddenly Amy wants to pitch Dan a white-picket fences vision of domestic stability that neither of them have ever been particularly interested in. Sex-Psychopath Dan is bad writing because it completely contradicts everything we know about the character even taking S6 into consideration. The Dan we see in S7 would have slept with Leigh Patterson in S4 just because she was young and there and he is apparently a sex-addict, hahahaha, when of course S4 Dan would never be caught dead in the sexual proximity of a nineteen year old he theoretically works with. And yes, of course, characters can change. But you have to show that change, which they do not.

As for whether Mandel is the devil, (lol)…I think he was just very intent on doing the version of the show he saw in his head, and did not feel very obligated to try and replicate the show that Armando Iannucci had built. He had a completely different sensibility as an artist. I wrote a longer post somewhere on my blog about the differences in their approaches, if you’re interested, but ultimately I think what happened is that two very different universes got mashed together. Mandel didn’t hate the characters…he just thought they were all monsters and that was the point.

Also, two things happened the show couldn’t get away from, for obvious reasons: Trump was elected and the show was on an extended hiatus for 2017 and most of 2018 due to JLD’s cancer diagnosis. In the interim, all of America watched the government begin to melt in real time on Twitter. As a result, David Mandel rebooted the original ending for the show, in order to better capture this new moment in American politics (how effectively he did so is obviously up for debate.) The creative team and the cast were all fairly open about how dramatically Trumpian politics shaped their approach to the final season. So basically Trump is the short-answer reason to why a ton of plot threads get dropped between S6 and S7. I am 99% percent sure that the original plan was for Amy to have the baby before the hiatus and the resulting reboot. (Although at the same time, I do not think Dan and Amy would have gotten a very satisfying ending under Mandel. He also posted some pre-reboot snippets of the original outline for the finale, which have hinted that quite a few things did not change…for example, it seems that BKD was always doomed to be a one-episode plot device designed to get everyone back on Selina’s team, which is stupid.)

5) As for Mandel’s writing of female characters, I feel more comfortable speaking definitively here because in this case, it doesn’t matter what they were thinking in the room, but how it came across on the page and on the screen. Mandel obviously would say he doesn’t hate women, but he’s seems like one of those “liberal” white guys who has a lot of sh*t to work through regarding his own assumptions about women and femininity. He turned Selina into this misogynistic sociopath who abuses every woman in her sight with extremely gendered language, and he consistently punished Amy the character explicitly for not being hot enough or quiet enough or acquiescent enough for a woman. Like, the show always made fun of Mike for being dumb. It did not always make fun of Amy for being ugly and old. Moreover, Mandel/the show basically implies that Amy is a failure as a woman because she’s not maternal and also old and ugly, so she never got to be a mother and she never got to be with the man she truly loved. (sorry, Bill.) (Um, also, the audience has eyes? Anna Chlumsky is neither old nor ugly.)

I find it plausible that Amy and Selina’s relationship deteriorates over time…there is a subtle professional Dan/Amy/Selina triangle at work in S1-S4, and as Amy gets older and starts to figure out what she really wants from her life (and if Dan were the one she was trying to figure it out with), I don’t think Iannucci-Selina would react very well to it. (She would never be as openly abusive as S7 Selina, but I can’t imagine she’d be thrilled if Amy got pregnant just in time for her reelection campaign.) The show also makes it clear that Selina has an extremely complicated relationship with women and feminism, not to mention the fact that Amy herself is not particularly confident in her own body.

However…there were lots of ways to explore those complex character fault-lines without Selina abusing Amy constantly. She tries to sell her to Leon! Part of it is a complete lack of nuance and part of it is just plain old sexism.

Veep and the sexism of its later years has also been a pretty big discussion topic within the Veep Tumblr community, and you’ll definitely find posts on it if you poke around more closely (my blog, and also @thebookofmaev has written a lot about it as well.)

#veep season seven #rip dan egan #veep and politics #veep and sexism

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serenagaywaterford · 6 years

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16) another thing that connected them in S2. Motherhood. Which is weird. Bc Serena is delusional about Nicole being hers. k) "how nobody really paid proper attention when it was building."And I mean, isn't this INCREDIBLY realistic and terrifying? Being inactive, indifferent about others and especially apolitical and undermining the threat...History is like a circle, always repeating itself in the end. I may be critical of the series, but its political observations are always on point. Like

17) that episode where June is separated from Hannah (at the same time the US-Mexico border crossing takes place). l) "Nobody deserves what those women get but it’s important to think critically about these characters and if June recognises she was idle until it was too late, I think as viewers we should be able to say the same" June makes it VERY clear that she feels guilty about i. her last interactions with her mother, ii. her inactivity. That's not victim blaming. It goes WITHOUT saying that

18) that NO woman deserves Gilead. Period. m) "Although I am also someone who counts restorative justice as a viable option for some crimes. I don’t think punitive/retributive justice is always the answer." As if I didn't have enough reasons to like you. I'm with you and I hear you. However, I do understand that some methods are not very feasible IRL due to various limitations. Back to Serena. What do you think will happen to her on the show? Will she survive Gilead's destruction? Will she stand

19) a democratic trial for her crimes? Will she get killed before Gilead goes down? Will she get lynched by an angry mob? I think I'd like it if the series dived more into the dark subjects of mob mentality and eye-for-an-eye types of punishment, but with flipped roles. Sth along the lines of "Can some victims (and their families) become as cruel as the Gilead!criminals in their quest for revenge?" There are the particicutions and Emily's arc, but still. n) "Maybe you have a theory? It’s one of

20) those things I don’t get. Is it cos she’s jealous June has a child and she doesn’t? Is it just a power play thing?" I think it's a combination of both actually. In S1, it's clearly the latter. Serena's being cruel and manipulative: she lets Hannah briefly see her child in order to emotionally torture her. But in S2? It's mostly the former. Obviously, Serena is envious of June's pregnancy, why wouldn't she be of Hannah? Especially given that Hannah (unlike Nicole) comes from a happier place

21) time in June's life. (Aka "God has blessed this /immoral-sinful/ woman with 2 children, why not me?" That must stink.) Another reason that she denies her that time is bc she feels betrayed that her prisoner tries to manipulate her, instead of befriend her. *eye roll* Duh, Serena. (Aka "After everything I've done for her and this is how she repays me." Bitch. You've done NOTHING. Try again.) Her desire to connect with sb, bc she doesn't have anything/anyone left anymore, makes her

22) desperate and a little naive/dumb, lol.

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I am so onboard with k) to m)! I can’t really add anything more of value (or interest) lol cos to me it just seems so obvious. I don’t know why some people miss it. Although I think EVERYBODY was sort of knocked sideways by how relevant the Hannah/June thing was with current US events. Hit a little too close to home. And GOOD.

You’re very right. Restorative justice is limited by a lot of things, but in theory, I do find it a positive angle to approach some kinds of crime. It’s a small scale sort of thing, generally, and very time and effort intensive process.

As for Serena’s fate... OHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhh. Sometimes I don’t like to think that far down the line cos I honestly do not see her getting anything even remotely happy. How she ultimately is dealt with, I don’t know. It really depends on the points the show wants to make. Will it be hopeful, will it be retributive, will it be melodramatic, will it be depressing af? Do they care about how angry viewers will be? Do they have enough for Serena to DO to make it to the final seasons or will her usefulness as a character expire early? (I’d wager they’d want to keep Yvonne around as long as possible but I’m biased.)

Personally, I suspect she’ll be held accountable in a democratic legal system. Although the thing that makes me pause is how Tuello suggested she defect. He very much presented an idyllic future. Now, it could have been a lie to trick her into turning herself over to the (remaining) US for punishment. But, on the other hand, they seem to REALLY want her propaganda. I don’t totally doubt that they see Serena as more valuable as a source of intel/propaganda than to hold her accountable. At this stage, arresting and sentencing her for her crimes wouldn’t really accomplish much for the US yet in the grande scheme of things. IMO, anyway. She seems a better asset for them than a convict or POW locked away/dead somewhere.

>> “Will she get lynched by an angry mob? I think I'd like it if the series dived more into the dark subjects of mob mentality and eye-for-an-eye types of punishment, but with flipped roles. Sth along the lines of "Can some victims (and their families) become as cruel as the Gilead!criminals in their quest for revenge?" There are the particicutions and Emily's arc, but still."

I fucking LOVE this approach. It’s something I’ve rolled around with for quite a while. If you’re going to deal with mob mentality in terms of the creation and continuation of a fascist system, what about the other side of human reality? Mob mentality can easily swing the other way with the right tinder and spark. Like, we see absolutely justified anger and disgust by survivors/refugees in Canada and then comes the question of what constitutes reasonable reaction to such a repulsive regime. Is violent mob revenge the answer? (I honestly can’t make that determination. I’ve never been in anything remotely like war or fascism.) Maybe it is. Maybe it’s not. And it is the sort of thing I think THT could deal with. Like you said, it’s sort of touched upon with Emily. But put that on a large scale. Is violence sometimes the answer? Is war the only answer with totalitarian regimes? How to you truly hold war criminals responsible?

Of course there would be viewers praising a mob if they kill Serena. I’ve seen people admit as much on this hellsite. (I dunno if I can make a judgement on that either but I personally find that perspective incredibly problematic. But it begs the question: what is justice then?) I think it would be incredibly disturbing to see. Yet, I’m also someone who thought June should have shot them lol. (Not really truly. But I felt the urge to see it during that episode--when I got over the fact the box she was opening wasn’t actually crackers but shotgun shells lol. But it really doesn’t fit with June’s character. Like she considers killing Serena more than once (3 times IIRC), but never does because it’s simply not right and she’s not that sort of person.)

Personally speaking, I don’t want Serena killed. Other characters, I hope die in painful ways. *coughfredcough* *coughallthemeninpowercough* But having her killed by a mob would be quite impactful. And not, imo, all that unrealistic. I just don’t want it. I don’t need absolutely everything to be brutally honest and realistic. Gimme some of that feelgood hope lmao.

>> Another reason that she denies her that time is bc she feels betrayed that her prisoner tries to manipulate her, instead of befriend her. *eye roll* Duh, Serena. (Aka "After everything I've done for her and this is how she repays me." Bitch. You've done NOTHING. Try again.) Her desire to connect with sb, bc she doesn't have anything/anyone left anymore, makes her 22) desperate and a little naive/dumb, lol.

WORD, LMAO. TO EVERY SINGLE WORD re: Serena/Hannah/etc. (ITA agree and thank you for your perspective on the Hannah thing!)

Like she’s so delusional/in such denial. Serena, girl, you’ve done literally nothing of actual substance for her and often times went out of your way to make things 100x more miserable for her and then wonder why she won’t be your BFF? Just cos you think your jail warden is your friend (Fred), doesn’t mean it’s actually true and transferable.

(I love it? (Not in the way that I think it’s good, morally. Just story/character-wise. It’s so interesting to me how weird and sad she is sometimes.))

In a way I actually feel sorry for Serena, even if she did get herself into this disaster, and she’s perpetuated it in the worse possible way she could. (She’s so unbelievably cruel, esp in S1, and then throws a tantrum when June doesn’t just fall into her arms, so to speak. C’mon, lady.) I think that's what I love about her character. She’s so wrong on so many levels, but she still evokes quite strong feelings the other way as well. Like, her growing desperation and loneliness and need for connection as Gilead goes on is actually... sad? I know many, many fans who bristle and word-vomit at just the suggestion of any such feelings towards her.

I dunno. I’m an idiot and a sucker cos I think when she actually connects with June (and loses the insecurity/jealousy), there’s a whole other person. It’s really fascinating how she changes. And switches back and forth. (Yeah, yeah, I’ve read the criticisms that that’s typical abuser behaviour but... ah. Like I said, me=sucker. I won’t deny I totally understand it but. Gah. I think it’s more complex. Am I woobifying? Yikes. I hope not.)

#Anonymous

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isaacathom · 7 years

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the fun thing about the post game idea is that Rhia puts you in danger. deliberately, consciously, with knowledge. she spends most of the main game attempting to convince you to go home, go to safety, she and the doc both support the idea of protecting people from this stuff, and shes determined to shield you from team whatsits wrath and elliots poor influence. and yet, by the end, she asks you to come with her into a clear trap, something clearly designed to lure her and the Doc out to rescue the daughter. she knows its a trap. she even says so. she technically gives you the chance to leave. she technically says you dont have to come. but you will. she needs you to. she needs you to follow her into a trap.

she doesnt want to. shes lost. shes helpless. she knows shes strong, she knows she COULD take CEO in a fight, but she knows that youre better than the both of them and if anyone will ruin CEOs day, its you. youre her contingency. she doesnt plan to have you fight. youre backup

so when shes knocked away, and she looks up to see you being wrapped up and lifted off the ground, she SUDDENLY understands how Elliot feels.she suddenly understand what he was feeling when he ran away, what sort of impact him leaving might have had, she feels that possibility and it tears her apart then and there. shes helpless o help you, and SHE put you in this position. yes, she gave you a choice, but you were always going to take it. technically he gave her a choice, but she was always going to take it.

because now, shes elliot, being held by a grunt while a young rhia is grabbed in the same manner. suddenly shes filled with his flight or fight instinct. and she has to make that conscious decision to fight, to stay, to not leave her young self behind. and then she sees the consequence of it. Elliot takes a blow and collapses backwards to the utter shock of all present. and suddenly she knows what he thought when he ran, why he made the conscious decision to fly. because this was the sort of thing he feared. he feared a backlash so severe it could kill him. and here he is. and its her fault.

no matter what end she got, whether shes split or reconcile, she recognises this parallel in deep place. shes now lived both sides of the incident, as herself and as elliot, and when she made what she thought was the ‘right’ choice - to fight - she sees the consequences that has. she understands. she wasnt right, and neither was he. for a split side, it forces her to see what elliot was doing and understand. she doesnt have to forgive. but now she understands, deeply. for a reconcile side, it reframes how she approached them repairing their relationship - its not about him becoming a ‘better’ person, its about them both becoming better people. is that realisation too late? she doesnt know.

its why shed become the e4 member on his request in split route. she doesnt want to talk to him much. but when he makes this request of her, sitting in a hospital bed, she cant not accept it. not out of some sense of owing him, though she does (in a way. it could also be seen as them finally being even). she does it because she now understand his perspective and WHY he wants this of her. in fact, thisd work better if elliot had previously asked her to take the role, regardless of route. in reconcile, she does, but in split, she refuses to hear it and leaves (to then be absent until her reappearance in the post game content). and elliot would mention that in your e4 battle. how he thought rhia deserved the spot more than he did, but that she’d refused to speak to him and take it. so when he sits there and shakingly calls Rhia into the room (as shed been sitting on a chair outside having a bit of an angsty moment) she does it in a heartbeat. shes changed, this time. and he asks her to take it, and she accepts. maybe shed be sorta tsundere about it, but everyone would tell its meant well, and the daughters sitting in a corner trying not to giggle. sweet.

like, the main story rhia/elliot arc is about Elliot changing. the post game rhia/elliot arc is about RHIA changing. its about whats ‘right’ and whats ‘correct’. lesser of two evils and such. i think thats a fun theme to have. because theres a difference between the ‘moral right’ path (in terms of the incident, this is Elliot staying and fighting the grunts) and the path with the ‘best outcome’ (thats elliot running away, which if nothing else guarantees he lives instead of them both dying/being brutally injured/such shit). and its about balancing the two. i /guess/ its similar to that dumb train thing, with switching the tracks to kill one person or 4. except a little more..... nuanced.... i hope, anyway. thats just sort the rough idea for it.

the daughter is just there to flesh out Rhia, really.

another thing - where is Rhia in reconcile? because she still has to appear in post game at a couple of random points, which in split is easily explained as her being a vigilante of sorts, roaming the region doing Shit My Guy. but in reconcile, shes in the e4... unless, ooh, so she goes home every night. you complete the last mission for the daughter, she sends you home, a day passes (in game lol), and rhia calls you as soon as you wake up to say daughter is missing. the idea is that rhia and daughter went to sleep and that rhia woke up to find daughter gone, and the ransom note from CEO on her kitchen table. also they sleep separately for this purely because i think id hate if im in bed all cozy and suddenly the partner comes in and steals the blanket like, the fuck. they both have weird schedules with work, so they sleep in separate rooms anyway. way easier for them both. so rhia comes home, goes to bed (possibly seeing the daughter beforehand, i assume so) and then waking up to the note. and calling you, because the daughters phone is on the table and you were the last person she contacted. come quick, fuck. that works.

and rhia still comes home in split. its just late at night, after everyones asleep. the family know shes there. they know shes coming and going. they figure shell calm down and interact with them soon. that sorta thing. and she comes in through her window and crashes on the bed, and bam. its morning, bitch. trot downstairs to grab some Sweet Sweet Bread, and bam, your girlfriend has been kidnapped by the cunt that made you join a gang. fuck.

also shit the mums there for all of this........... shit. like, Doc is in the city, working with the police and also helping people after city chaos. the daughter came home to fill her dads role in the community while hes busy. the mum is still there. the fucks she doing during all this. is she the one who raises the alarm idk. shit. thats complicated. i completely forgot about the mum. oh man. we COULD say shes in the city with Doc, afterall Rhia and the daughter are both adults and can handle themselves........ like she flew over to be with him while hes dealing with police and people? that could work. bit of a cop out but it figures.

honestly all the main characters are dealing with police except for split!Rhia and the daughter. split!rhia because shes off being vigilante, and the daughter because she was spoken to by police after her dad came forward and its immediately understood that she has Absolutely Nothing to do with it, like theyre the ones to reveal her dads gang connections to her and shes just D: WHAT ans they go ‘oh shit’. it was a very difficult conversation for everyone involved.

idk. this works? well enough at any rate. honestly i just like the idea of rhia going through an arc on screen. because in the main story she doesnt really change (ESPECIALLY in split, where she sticks to her guns more fiercely because she hasnt has her views challenged by elliot), its more about elliots development. they both change for post game. elliot by either completing his gradual change into ‘the better person’ rhia wanted, or by just throwing himself into that. he had time. theres like a week of in game time between you becoming champion and him getting shot. and rhia changes by either completing her own change into ‘the better person’ or having her stead fast idea challenged concretely. idk. listen this shits fun im a slut for drama and this is My Shit My Guy

#story blogging #it never ends i was meant to do hw lmaooooooo whoops #codename seren

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