#I don't even want to talk about kataang sorry

[satansbiggestkinnie]

Katara is overhated. Yes,I was annoyed when she said,"Then you didn't love her like I did." I used to hate her for it even. But,you have to keep in mind,she's a kid. A kid who was forced to grow up by the world and forced herself to. The world that they live in,considers them adults.

Katara: "I haven't done this since I was a kid!"

Aang: "But you still are a kid!"

Zuko: "You're just a child."

Aang: "And you're just a teenager?"

Plus,not only did she step up and therefore didn't process it in a healthy manner,it's implied she saw her mother's corpse.

Edit: There's also a point that @azulserszzp made,that the entire Gaang made bad decisions! For example,Zuko almost burns down an entire village. Katara is mean for ten seconds AND EVERYBODY HOLDS IT AGAINST HER.

[rifari2037]

They talked about cultural differences?? Really??? I laughed so hard 🤣

Do they realised that air and water are different too?? That their cultural are completely opposite???

Water tribe people killed animals for food, furniture, clothes, etc. That's their culture! Air nomads don't killed animals, even a fly, for any reasons, they're vegetarian. That's their culture!!

There's nothing wrong with both cultures, but if we think about it with sense, can two people with extreme cultural differences marry and accept each other's cultures easily?

No, it won't be easy. Katara and Aang got married without any problems about cultural differences because Bryke were the writers!

Do they know that Aang/Kataang stand was aware about it and wrote this???

Do they even realise that in canon Aang doesn't really like Water Tribe culture?? Yes, that's CANON!!

Katara : Bato, it looks like home! [Bato, Katara, Sokka, and Aang file inside.] Sokka : Everything's here, even the pelts! Aang : [Sarcastically.] Yeah, nothing's cozier than dead animal skins.

Katara : [Surprised and delighted.] No way! Stewed sea prunes! Bato : Help yourself! Sokka : Dad could eat a whole barrel of these things! Aang takes a bowl of stewed sea prunes and sniffs it, but looks away in disgust and sets it to the side.

Aang : Hey everyone! Sorry I was gone so long. Katara : [Turns to face him.] Hey, Aang, I didn't notice you left. Aang : Yup, but now I'm back. [Sitting down.] Sure could go for some delicious sea prunes! Aang quickly takes some bites of sea prunes, but chokes them back up, yet he pretends to enjoy them. Katara, Bato, and Sokka look at him strangely.

Hama : I wanted to surprise you! I bought all this food today so I could fix you a big Water Tribe dinner. Of course, I can't get all the ingredients I need here, but ocean kumquats are a lot like sea prunes if you stew them long enough. Aang : [Sticking his tongue out in disgust.] Great!

Aang : [Whispering to Toph.] I'd steer clear of the sea prunes. Toph : I thought they were ocean kumquats. Aang : Close enough.

Oh, btw, An ocean kumquat is a small, round fruit often consumed in the Fire Nation. That's close enough with sea prunes, water tribe cuisine.

When Aang doesn't like water tribe cuisine, I can imagine Zuko and Katara having dinner, sharing water tribe and fire nation dishes and they enjoying it because it taste similar. 😂

Fire and water are the opposite elements, that's why they are compliment each other.

Yin and Yang shows a balance between two opposites with a portion of the opposite element in each section.

Remember what Iroh said about the elements? Let's see if fire and water don't mix together, especially for Zuko and Katara.

"Fire is the element of power..."

"...The people of the Fire Nation have desire and will, and the energy and drive to achieve what they want."

"Water is the element of change..."

"...The people of the Water Tribe are capable of adapting to many things..."

"...They have a deep sense of community and love that holds them together through anything."

Young Zuko : [Zuko is shown standing up.] You can't sacrifice an entire division like that! Those soldiers love and defend our nation! How can you betray them?

Zuko and Katara would bicker and not get along well, they said?? Really??

Every time Katara is mad, Zuko just silent and listen to her. Even when they're still enemies!!

Oh, btw, Katara not 'always' threatened Zuko to kill him if he hurt Aang. It happened once. She is still mad at him not because of Aang, but because he betrayed her.

That's personal to her, she is mad not because he hurt someone else but he hurt her. I mean, if she really mad at him because of Aang, why is she connected her anger at Zuko to her mom, not Aang (again)?

And after this moment, after Katara by her own choice, forgives Zuko, do Zuko and Katara always bickering and not get along at all??? No, they're not!!

Zuko gives Katara advice, Katara listens. Katara gives Zuko advice, Zuko listens.

They reassure each other at a very important moment.

Lastly, I don't understand how Zuko and Katara, who they said would never get along, always save each other lives, even Zuko sacrifice his life to her?

[firelxdykatara]

I too ship Zutara and think they should have been canon. Although for me it's important to know how such a rewrite would go down. I tried to think, and I'm lost.

After Mai betrayed Azula for him, will he just go "sorry, not interested"? He isn't obligated to date her because of this, but her redemption hinges on Zuko and I don't see it being satisfying if he ends up rejecting her after this.

I thought the solution would be to rewrite her arc in boiling rock to make her have a moral realization, but then the problem with Maiko is practically solved. Their relationship wasn't salvaged by her redemption because last time they talked, Mai still didn't understand what's wrong with the Fire Nation and only changed because she loved Zuko. So how do you make it both satisfying & logical?

With Kataang the problem is the Chakras. The problem with the original (in my opinion) is that after he opened his chakra, letting go of his attachment to Katara, he's still attached (forcing a kiss on eip). Should TCoD get rewritten so that Azula shoots him before he opens it? Then why wouldn't he just open it later? Maybe the chakra would be locked so he feels as though he doesn't need to overcome his attachment just yet. In that situation, how would his chakra even unlock? The stone thing felt like nonsense, so how would I do it?

So yeah I have no idea how to approach this. How would you? (Thanks)

I've been rotating this ask in the back of my head like a rotisserie chicken for a few days--it's interesting because I don't generally stop to think like, how would I write them out of these relationships, I either ignore the relationships completely (which isn't hard, they were barely footnotes in the cartoon) or play a little bit with jealous exes or something. Thinking about like, In A Perfect World where Bryke wasn't in charge of ATLA post-canon (because if zutara had been canon, you can be sure they would've made us regret it) is interesting, and I do have thoughts on how I'd handle their relationships in a rewrite.

(this got long, so the rest is beneath the cut)

Assuming you mostly want to keep canon intact, I think maiko would be the easiest to work around, given how little relevance their relationship has in canon. The problem with maiko as an endgame ship is that it was not set up that way--if it had been, it would not have begun entirely off-screen and their whole relationship would not have been a study in misery and utter inability to connect emotionally. His relationship with Mai was there to showcase just how much he had changed and how little he fit into the life he had been so sure he wanted more than anything since his banishment. It worked very well to highlight Zuko's growth--how that contrasted to Mai's lack of it and why she could not understand him even at his most open and vulnerable--and did not work nearly so well when she was shoved back with him in the epilogue, after he'd quite literally forgotten her existence (he never mentions her again after Boiling Rock, not even to say a word of mourning, considering he'd have every reason to believe she was killed for defying his sister).

I don't think you can fix this by giving Mai some moral realization, because there simply is no room for it. As @araeph says in the essay I linked:

As a character, Mai is very useful to the story during Zuko’s return, because she represents everything that Zuko gains by sticking by his father. A girl who cares about him; the ability to indulge her; the authority he has over others at the palace; we see it all in his interactions with Mai. But this makes Mai a tether to a life he has long outgrown. Her function is not to advance Zuko’s character development, but to obstruct it, which also unfortunately means that Mai gaining a full understanding of Zuko’s trials would be disadvantageous to the story. If she knew everything about him and still wanted him to stay, it would give Zuko more cause than he should have to remain in the Fire Nation, but if she knew and encouraged him to leave and join the Avatar, it would rob Zuko of the triumph of making this decision on his own. In other words, there are good narrative reasons for keeping Mai in the dark; it just doesn’t make their relationship any stronger.

The seeds of a genuine redemption arc (one that includes some sort of moral realization and change to her moral framework) for Mai would have to have been planted far earlier than five episodes from the end of the series, but doing so would have of necessity detracted from Zuko's own character arc and the realizations that he makes despite his attachment to Mai (or more specifically to their relationship, which I feel like he was clinging to more out of a sense of abject loneliness he couldn't shake rather than genuine feelings and emotional connection).

So, in my mind, since we're tackling this with an eye towards getting rid of maiko with the fewest ripples to the overall story anyway, the easiest way to do this would be make one slight change to the end of the Boiling Rock two-parter--have Ty Lee (who had always been the least gung-ho of the trio about bowing to Azula's whims and had to be textually threatened into joining her in the first place) save Zuko's life, and then have Mai (who showed the most genuine affection for Ty Lee anyway) save Ty Lee. I love Zuko more than I fear you always fell flat for me as some epic declaration of love, anyway, since a) Zuko is not around to hear it, and b) unlike Ty Lee, she never showed much fear of Azula to begin with, so it wasn't a very high bar to clear. It was a cool line that was entirely unearned, and I don't think it would be missed, there would be some cute mailee crumbs this way, and a throwaway line of getting them released from the prison after the war ended could wrap up their presence in the story pretty nicely.

Now, kataang is a little trickier, if only because the last leg of Aang's character arc is almost completely derailed by his refusal to let go of his possessive attachment to Katara, to the point where he never naturally reopens his chakras, he has to have the Rock of Destiny hit him in just the right place, and the deus ex lionturtle there to give him a way out of having to make a hard moral choice. (I've maintained for years that if you work the final act of your main character's overall arc in such a way that it could have been solved by one good session with a chiropractor, something got fucked along the way.)

The thing about Aang's chakras is that, narratively, his whole thing with Guru Pathik and leaving his training early to save his friends was basically his version of Luke running away from his training with Yoda on Degobah because of his Force vision, only to find out that his friends were in the process of rescuing themselves and then losing his hand because he hadn't completed the most crucial part of his training. What's missing, therefore, from the last act of Aang's character arc, is the return.

See, in Star Wars, Luke pretty explicitly makes the wrong choice when he chooses to prioritize saving his friends over attaining enlightenment and fully mastering the Force. It was the only choice he could have made, but it was still the wrong one--because, like Aang, his friends did not actually need him to save them, he actually almost makes it harder for them to get away by requiring them to save him because, like Aang, he loses a battle in a very critical way. This was a lesson he desperately needed to learn, and it is clear he has learned it by the time he makes it back to Degobah and witnesses the end of Yoda's life, his own enlightenment having already been reached.

But Aang never goes back to the Guru.

And the text refuses to allow us to sit with the fact that he made the wrong choice in prioritizing his attachment to Katara over his ability to master the Avatar State. He is actually narratively vindicated about it, because the plot bends itself into a pretzel so that he doesn't have to spend any time during the last book trying to reopen his chakras and regain access to the Avatar State, handed both in the final battle with no excess effort on his part, and handed the girl into the bargain. (The girl who never even wanted him, so far as we can tell from all the lack of cues she gave him that she actually returned his feelings.)

And I think this could have been solved with a few scattered scenes. Let Katara actually have some agency in her own romantic relationship (or lack thereof), insofar as noticing Aang's advances and clueing the audience in to how she actually feels. Let Aang struggle with the fact that he can't reach the Avatar State, that his mastery of the elements is in limbo because he can't access his full power, rather than ignoring all of this until the end of the show. If we're trying to keep the shape of the last season roughly the same, let Katara confront Aang about the invasion kiss.

This would have been the perfect time to establish that Katara actually does feel some type of way about Aang prior to the epilogue, and it could have saved us from the exceedingly cringey EIP kiss that Aang never apologized for. How it comes across now, of course, is that Katara basically pretends it never even happened, to the point where she doesn't even know what Aang is talking about during EIP until he reminds her--the death knell for any shot their relationship had at looking requited, because I can tell you, as someone who's been a teenage girl, if someone I had conflicted but burgeoning romantic feelings for had kissed me, I would not have completely forgotten about it only a few weeks later--and we never get any indication as to what she actually felt about the kiss (which was not mutual, despite what Aang's dialogue in the EIP scene implies) except for the fact that she looked away and frowned afterwards. (A change mandated by Bryke, who wanted to leave her feelings completely ambiguous; the original storyboards had her smiling to herself.)

So, with an eye towards wrapping up Aang's puppy love crush and establishing Katara's distinct lack of romantic feelings for him, have her talk to him about the kiss. A good frame of reference for this would be Meng's conversation with Aang in "The Fortuneteller", where she finally realizes that he doesn't like her in the same way she likes him. Katara and Aang's conversation about the invasion kiss could be a callback to this, with Aang having some important realizations--that just because Katara doesn't share his feelings doesn't mean she loves him any less, and just because he can't have her the way he wanted doesn't mean he has to love her any less, that she doesn't belong to him but that's ok, because she's still his family and they'll always have each other's backs. Which could have functioned well in helping him take another step towards unblocking his chakras. Going back to the Guru directly may not have worked, since by this point in the story we're hurtling towards the final confrontation and Sozin's Comet, but let Aang reflect on what the Guru told him with new understanding granted him by his experiences throughout the first half of the season.

To keep the stakes high and up the suspense, obviously, he shouldn't have fully unlocked his chakras and the AS before the final fight, but the seeds could be planted--little moments like a talk with Katara about the invasion kiss, maybe a little more empathy and understanding from him about why Katara needs closure in TSR, etc--and then, during the final fight, rather than hand him all the answers on a silver platter, have him almost lose. He still can't go full Avatar, he's out of time, he still doesn't know exactly what to do about Ozai given his own pacifism and desire to preserve that part of his culture--he tries to fight but he's pretty quickly overpowered. Idk how I would've animated this, and maybe it wouldn't have looked as cool for the final fight, but the true climax of the finale was the Zuko and Azula agni kai anyway, so it hardly matters--I'm picturing him doing the rock-shield thing and going into a brief meditative state, where he finally achieves the enlightenment necessary to unlock the AS on his own, no rock of chiropracty necessary. And at this point, I'd give Ozai a Disney Death, since leaving him alive causes more problems than it solves and it's not necessary for Aang to kill him for him to die--they're fighting on a mountain ffs--but if you don't want to change that part then him figuring out energy bending as part of becoming a fully realized Avatar would at least feel more earned than the lionturtle just handing it to him. (And that could've been foreshadowed better by seeding the idea for it earlier in the season.)

After all of that, particularly if you up the emotions during the agni kai and have Zuko and Katara kiss there (or something less explicitly romantic but still tender, like a brief forehead touch), it'd feel pretty natural to have a just friends ending for Aang and Katara. Maybe a brief, slightly awkward but ultimately amiable conversation if Zuko and Katara had a ~thing at their final fight, and then the final shot of the series could be the gaang all together, maybe zutara holding hands or Katara resting her head on his shoulder or something, but since they already kissed there wouldn't feel like a need to end the whole show on romance, something which I've always felt missed the point of the series.

And then, y'know, after that, the world's your oyster! This is how I'd do it if I were trying to keep the bulk of the final season intact. Of course, breaking it all down to its component pieces and rebuilding from the ground up is also an option, but that'd probably be a longer post lol.

[empressofthesunslittlecorner]

A rant about Aang and Byrke

WARNING NOT KATAANG FRIENDLY

CONTINUE WITH PRECAUTION

Hello my loves!

Here I'm with a new blog entry.

This time we will talk about Kataang, Aang and Byrke.

Since I'm writing a FanFic where Aang is paired with an OC, I thought I could tell you why I prefer Aang with OCs instead of Katara.

Just to be clear.

I like Aang.

I love Katara and would for this girl sell my liver.

But them together as a pair...please no!

Kataang is one of my NOTPs.

In my Let's Talk about Zutara post I pretty much said why I can't stand this pairing.

One is the age and maturity gap.

What does a 14-year-old want with a 12-year-old? It's just creepy, no matter the gender and it would have been better if they got together at like 22 and 20.

Even if I think Zutara is superior, I could grimly accept Kataang.

Second Aang and Katara are the worst version of their self together.

I haven't read the comics, but what I saw on Tumblr and on Legend of Korra was enough to make me angry.

Katara was reduce to Aang price, girlfriend, housewife and mother of his children.

The warrior girl we all loved, who never turned her back on people who needed her, became in the name of love (and Byrke) a shadow of herself.

Our real Katara would smack this wishy-washy version of herself to kingdom come!

Then we have Aang. The boy clearly turns into a Nice GuyTM when it's about Katara.

He kissed her TWICE, TWICE, without her consent and never said sorry for this.

He thinks he deserves her love because he is the Avatar (the hero) and that's how it be.

Till Season 2 Aang wasn't that worse about Katara, a lot of plotpoints pointed out that Aang obsession, I'm not calling it love, on Katara was not good.

He replaced the love for his people with Katara.

Erm, that's not healthy at all.

What Aang expierendec was traumatic, he is the sole suriver of a genocide, but he can't shove all his love for his people to Katara.

How can only one person hold this standards?

It's impossible.

Katara is a bandaid on a ripped arm.

A bandaid isn't going to fix Aang trauma.

He needed to really face it and accept it and let Katara go.

Guru Pathik told him he to let Katara go, but I don't think it was meant to say, don't love that girl anymore.

No, it was more like: you clearly are obsessed with her and think if she loves you all your hurt will go away, but this isn't the case!

Aang could still love Katara, he just needed to stop to put her on a pestal!

Then we know what happens, he let's her go, seems to get the Avatar State, but turn it down because Katara is in danger and he must save her.

Alright, we all would run to our loved one if they are in danger, but Aang, you are the Avatar.

The Avatar is the peacekeeper of this world.

Sadly he can't put his own desires forward, he has do to what was for the world right!

In the Crystal Catabombs he realizes this.

So he let's go of Katara to get the Avatar State and then gets shot down by Azula.

Then when the first episode of season 3 rolls around, you get the feeling that Aang learnend his lesson.

Because he was selfish, he lost his greatest eapan.

He needed to be better.

Only...after the first episode season 3 was really...bad.

I can't say it better.

If you compare it to the other two seasons...season 3 has mayor problems.

A lot of plotpoints get forgotten, Aang didn't learn from his mistakes, he acts entitled for Katara love and he gets his Avatar State back thanks to Deus-Ex-Machine Rock and even finds a way to handle Ozai thanks to Deus-Ex-Machine Lion Turtle.

How, HOW, did the creators look at this and want a golly what an awesome final?

It was not!

It was rushend and not earnend!

Because Aang is a selfinsert from Bryek.

They statet once in an interview that Kataang was reflection how they had a crush on their babysitter, who of course didn't wanted them and would go out with the "bad boy".

The bad boy here in question is Zuko, which is hilarious since Zuko is the most awkward dork.

So they wanted to create a story were the young hero gets the hot older girl.

No normal 14-year-old girl would date a 12-year-old and if she did call the police on her ass!

Avatar was only amazing because of writers like Aaron Ehasz, who turned Toph, who was supposed to be a boy and a love rival for Aang, into this badass girl who didn't let her disabilty stop her to become the greatest earthbender and inventer of metalbening in the world.

They truned Iroh into thee loveable and wise uncle and not like Byrke wanted into a spy for Ozai.

Also Azula was supposed to be a boy too, but she became the female villain we all loved and wish we would see in other media's too!

A lot of writer wanted also Zutara to happen and not Kataang.

If I remember right season 3 was so rushed and lacking because the movie-who-shall-not-be-named was in production and Bryke wanted the series to end before it.

A lot of concept were thrown out the window for it.

The writers wanted to make even a season 4, where Aang would even find other airbenders, but noooooooooooooooo we can't give Aang the healing he deserves, we must live out a fantasy trough this boy.

Looking at you Bryke.

Anyways we got, what we got and I'm so not happy about it.

Zutara should be canon and Aang should have found a girl who loved really, who was his equal and who didn't needed to be a broodmare for the air nomads, becasue there where still air nomads around.

Here we get back to my preference to ship Aang with OCs. Since I'm a big fan of the theoretical season four we would have gotten, it's only naturel to imagine own characters, since no canon characters exist for it.

I would have loved to see Aang with a descendant of Air Nomads. She learning from him, he learning from her, cute!

But let's be real if Aang is writing good he could work with a lot of characters.

Even canon ones like On Ji. I found her really cute with him.

The only thing I want for Aang partner is that the girl doesn't get reduced to a broodmare.

So the airbenders have always to come back/stop from hiding.

IT'S NOT THE COMPLICATED!

BUT WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!

WE LIVE IN THE DARK TIMELINE!

AVATAR COULD HAVE BEEN THE MOST REVOLUTIONARY CARTOON EVER, BUT NOOOOOO TWO MEN HAD TO MAKE THEIR WEIRD FANTASY REALITY AND DIDN'T LISTEN TO THEIR TEAM OF WRITER WHO WERE LIKE, FAM THAT'S NARRAVTIVLY SPEACKING HUGE STEPS BACKWARDS!!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

Yeah, I think you all guessed how much I hate Bryke.

Fricking pricks!

Also, people who make fun of their own fans because they ship a pairing themselves not like are the worst!

That shows have much respect they have for their fans.

Zero.

They just wanted to live out their fantasy and be done.

Again, fricking pricks!

So for now, that's from me, I needed to get it out of my chest.

Till next time my loves!

[dreamchasernina]

"I don't want to engage in ship wars"

"I can't defend my ship without being ATTACKED"

I wonder why you keep getting grief🤔

I'm sorry I don't want to be rude, but what the hell did you think would happen? You're clearly responding to criticism of your ship, and there's nothing wrong with that. But everyone else also has the right to a) respond to your arguments and b) call your points stupid. You're literally engaging with the ship war by arguing against criticism of your ship. You have to be able to see that

How is me responding to criticism of my ship - engaging in ship wars? I don’t mention another ship anywhere in my post. ANYWHERE. So like…anytime I talk about Kataang where I disagree with a popular opinion against my ship, it means I’m engaging in ship wars? Am I like…not allowed to address the common hate? After seeing 10 posts saying “Aang is an abuser” am I not allow to post to my own blog and say “actually, I don’t think Aang’s an abuser” and then not expect to be attacked for it?

I go into Kataang tag and see 10 anti Kataang posts a day. So if I want to share 2 pro Kataangs a day, without hating anyone else, that means I’m engaging in ship wars? I’m not addressing anyone in particular, just addressing the main points brought up against Kataang.

Seriously, genuinely, anon. Put another ask in my inbox and tell me where am I engaging in ship wars when ALL IM DOING is talking about MY SHIP and not even mentioning another ship, not in the posts and not in the tags. Those posts are meant for the people who are actively seeking content on that particular ship.

You’re saying the fact that I defend my ship against terrible takes without involving anyone directly, means I should expect to get hate? Does that sound okay to you?

If I see points defending another ship, I would NEVER go into their post to say, hey, actually that’s dumb. Why on earth would anyone do that? And you’re defending it for what??

Why am I, as an active atla fan and shipper, not allowed to share my thoughts on my ship without getting attacked?? Like seriously. Answer that question. All of my posts are positive. Nothing negative.

And I agree, anyone has a right to respond and disagree, but that’s not what’s happening. 2 of ZK shippers attacked, literally attacked my points, made fun of them, called me a “pest” and automatically blocked me without giving me a chance to respond. If you’re gonna block me, why respond in the first place? And I’m the bad guy in all of this? Because I dared to talk about my ship?

Like I truly don’t know how you guys don’t see how delusional you sound! I’m not the one going into ZK shippers blogs, looking for a post I disagree with and then shame them for having those opinions. I beg you to look inside your shippers behavior for once and ask yourselves, why are ZK shippers being labeled the worst part of ATLA fandom. By everyone. Maybe because of behavior like this?

[viivzn]

the anti kataang tag is BULLSHIT. the posts there are just making up excuses or so called 'facts' about — presumably, AANG talking bad ab the water tribe and people in the comments are like "omg whoa yes i agree" or "finally someone said it! bla bla bla......" shit dyk what u're even talking about bruh what the fuck r u on about 😭😭

DAWGG IMAGINEE???? deceiving people into your lame ahh facts so people can rather ship zutara or something?? dawg u have NO shame LMFAOO.

and not to state the fact that kataang is canon and they're going to create an adult movie ab tla 🤔 this shit keeps going everyday or everytime now why don't u guys just give up what the fuck 🙀🙀

it's not that hard right?? fucking braindead asses, cry ab it dude stop making more rumours ab the air nation being a the evil side while the fire nation the good side. dyk what you're even talking about cuz we can replay the whole fucking series again if you want!! unless you have a mild slow ass reading comprehension between some dialouges and make up lies again LMAKOO

sorry to the other good zutara shippers out there but i CANNOT take it w the die hard stans 😭

thank you for listening to my ted-talk. have a great day 💕

!! there's probably some mistakes, ignore that 😲😲

[atla-confessions]

'I'm a Kataang hater because they are literally just friends. People need to stop thinking that just because a guy and a girl care about each other, they should kiss. Katara wanted to save Aang? Well she was already established to be very compassionate. Aang helped her find childlike wonder? He just wanted someone to go penguin sledding with him. Literally just friends. Let two people of different genders have platonic relationships please.'

I'm sorry, but... did you watch the show? Or, did you watch the show and pay attention?

'...because they are literally just friends.' They're literally married to each other and have three kids. Sure, they're friends, but that doesn't mean they aren't in love. You can be friends with your soulmate.

'Katara wanted to save Aang? Well she was already established to be very compassionate.' Yes, Katara was established to be very compassionate. But to say that she only wanted to save Aang because she's a good person is to inadvertently ruin her character a smidge; she wanted to save him because she cared about him. Not because she's just an amazing, caring, kind person and knew it'd be good to save him. Sure, she knew it was the right thing to do, but she also cared.

'Aang helped her find childlike wonder? He just wanted someone to go penguin sledding with him.' Yeah. You're right—not completely, I'll say, but you're still right. This was in the first episode if I remember correctly, so of course, they were only friends during this time. But throughout the show, Aang helps almost every member of the Gaang he meets to let loose a little, including Katara. In the scene you're referencing, you're right to say that he only wanted someone to go penguin sledding with him, but that doesn't mean he didn't help her remember that she's still young. No, he still helped her, even if he only wanted to sled with her. (I hope that makes sense; I'm a little tired, so it might not make the most sense.)

'Literally just friends. Let two people of different genders have platonic relationships please.' Firstly, they're not just friends, in canon, they are much, much more than friends. Secondly and lastly, who are you talking to who says that people of different genders can't have platonic relationships? Yeah, people of different genders can have platonic relationships. Of course, they can. But that's not the case for Katara and Aang, who do have a romantic relationship, and that's okay. If the canon said they were only friends, that'd be okay. If the canon said they were more than friends, that'd be okay, too.

I don't understand why you're trying to say that they're only friends; you're disregarding canon if you truly believe that. And it's okay to hate Kataang, you are entitled to your own opinion, just... don't try and say that they're only friends when they're not, okay? Because they are dating, whether you like it or not. Whether anyone likes it or not, not only you.

Sorry if this came across as rude. I'm genuinely not trying to be rude.

X

[elledberry]

No, but like, WHY do people care so much about other people ship preferences?

I get it, I don't ship the obvious ones or the "right" or what was given to me by the author, but IS JUST A SHIP.

Look, don't get me wrong, I'm not angry at other preferences when it comes to this. What I get annoyed at is that when there is an illustration, an edit, a fucking fic, any kind of media, that shows that romantic dynamic between the characters they will be like

"siblings 🩷" "omg no how could ship that? They aren't like that." "Have you read the books ?" "Omg, people actually ship them?" "The author said..." "omg but this (name of other ship), it's so much better," and so on.

My beautiful person who comments in every edit of (some examples, but I'm sure that there's more) harmony, lunami, zutara, sasusaku .... do you really think that they/we don't know or care about this ? Do you know what you look like when u comment stuff like that? An idiot who can't let others have a different opinion on literally fiction character's romance life, like that one kid in kindergarten who saw another kid getting a toy and go's on about how that toy is lame compared to theirs, a spoiled brat.

You have so many things to be arguing about in the actual plot, but you can't cus you think that the idea of nami and luffy together is so wrong that you go around in every media of them "oda said..." But with other members of the crew, oda said absolutely nothing... not only that, but are we really discussing this ? Can we be talking about I don't know... how racist and hypocrites are some people in this famdon? Really give your disappointment and disgust to that(what is actually important).

Harry and Hermione are another great example of "I know they aren't like that but I like the idea of it" WE KNOW THEY AREN'T LIKE THAT but we think is cute it could HAVE BEING cute, sometimes people just grow up shipping and seeing they as a possible couple, like people who grow hating sakura and now simply can't have a actually good argument of why she should be hated on... that was an ironic comment by the way but also not, ( no, her not liking the main character the same way shouldn't be one, or the author not giving her screen time either much less cus of the fact the the anime did her dirty with so much disconnect things from the manga, like her relationship with sasuke <his perspective of it > or naruto himself for that matter, hate on a literally 12 years old for saying shit that every fucking person in the village grew up thinking, funny, why not hate on the thirdkage then? The person who could have actually stopped the hate on a little kid) [Sorry that got out of the main point]

Or zutara, my God, people get personal with just as harmony, relax, just cus I like them doesn't mean I hate kataang, surprise or not I do think they are indeed very cute, I'm pretty sure some other people who ship zutara too... we just see the potential, what could have happened, once again, enemies to friends to loves, the plot, you know ? There is no need to get offended by the IDEA of it. We love the drama and the fic, the illustrations, the edits are just a format that represents and shows it, share if people who likes it, you don't like it ? Oh well, let me tell you a secret, ignore it, you probably ignore so much more important things, why not a fucking edit of ship you don't even like ?, oh you can't ? You can't see other people "toy" and shut about your disappointment on it, is it that hard ?, oh well, have you actually not known that there's an amazing thing within social media, when you hold/press or simply click on the 3 dots on the top of the post, there's a option there, that's right, BLOCK IT the algorithm will understand if you continue blocking it, unlike some people.

I'm just rambling about this because I'm sick and tired of people being such a killjoy, I just want to enjoy "my ship" and see the comments of people who actually likes it to, not yours "siblings 🩷" in post which is definitely not about that, or "oda said..." when i didn't ask what he said, you know people have different things that brings them a scape from reality that brings them a funny giggle (no killing others people joy, when it's such a basic no harmful thing), wave of emotion for those who don't get to feel much in the day-to-day life or simple just cus.

It just petty of you, be better.

Ps.. There is no offense for those who ship other characters within these plots(or different ones), original, popular, or unpopular. Do your thing. Be happy. Just don't spoil others.

Ps2... NO I'm not defending incest that's no it at fucking all ( sorry if I didn't make it clear). I said "siblings" when it came to lunami and Harry x Hermione (cus people like to comment that on posts that aren't even about it < the platonic soul mates comment>), they AREN'T related or grown up at such. Point is you hating the idea of it and going on every post about the ship and hating there. hate all you want, but not on ,obviously, posts that are for the fans of the ship.

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

https://www.tumblr.com/burst-of-iridescent/741229954802614272/i-love-the-character-wise-vs-narrative-wise

What do you think about this take?

Sounds like the classic tactic of sing a bunch of terms to avoid just saying "This pairing couldn't happen because canon does not in fact support it, but I'd like it to, but I think saying I like something is objectively less valid of a reason to want said to happen"

The narrative doesn't support Zutara and the story doesn't "organically" lead to it because we never get any indication that these characters have romantic feelings for each other, or that they'd be interested in being together for any reason (genuine romance, some political situation, alliance, etc).

There's no "Character wise VS Narrative wise" because the characters are part of the narrative. A character not getting what they want can only ever be in true conflict with the narrative if it doesn't make sense for them not to get what they wanted, or when "this is a sad thing" is the entire point - and this is not what was going on in Avatar at all.

This wasn't a case of "These two characters were implied/confirmed to have feelings for each other but never talked it out/the plot was aborted" like sitcoms sometimes do, or a Romeo and Juliet situation in which they even confessed their feelings/had a short-lived relationship but didn't get a happy ending.

People don't say "Zutara isn't canon" because it wasn't endgame - being canon and being endgame are different things. We're not just skipping straight to the finale and going "Oh, these two are not a couple living happily ever after by the end of the show, therefore it's impossible there were ever feelings between them."

We watched all 61 episodes. We saw how Katara acts when she likes a guy, and she did not treat Zuko like that. We saw how Zuko acts when he likes a girl, and he did not treat Katara like that. We saw them getting embarrassed AND uncomfortable at the thought of becoming an item. We saw three seasons of Kataang build up, plus one of Maiko. And we saw the series itself explicitly tell us "Zutara is not accurate to canon" through the Ember Island Players.

The characters don't want to be together, and the narrative doesn't give them a reason to be together. In a case like that, it doesn't matter if we're talking "character wise" or "narrative wise" - oh, I'm sorry, I meant "from a doylist perspective" or a "from watsonian perspective" - because both are saying the same thing: Zutara doesn't make sense.

[leantailean]

I think what i like about Toko is the way the too off them play off each other. Both are stubborn, blunt, loud and insensitive to others. Both came from a posh upbringing. Among other things it leaves them both a bit self-centred, which they both struggle with. Toph wants nothing but move away from home, while Zuko does everything to return to it. Toph hates rules, while Zuko is a stickler for honor (unless the ends justify the means, which usually benefits himself). Zuko is a terrible liar while Toph can turn into a doll on a dime while also being a human lie detector. They have one good eye between the two of them. They both have so much room to grow as people. There's billion things more like that really.

I can't tell you what specifically made me interested in romance between them. I think i just already read a few fics about them being friends it made curious how those dynamic would play out in a romance.

It's funny to see you liken Kataang to Toko. Since despite it's ubiquity if never really felt one way or the other for the former, nor do i think much about it. My guess the appeal of the ship would be what those too represent to each other, which would be quite different from the more interpersonal dynamic appeal of toko. But you point i out there some interesting parallels there.

I don't really hate season 3 myself, though i'd call it probably the weakest of all the seasons. Funnily enough the Zuko gaang interactions are something i'm mostly fine with. I mostly just find the way they team up a little clunky, as well as Zuko being unable to imagine why Katara would still be mad at him and the general asspullery of the finale. So i'm curious what you think about that.

Hello! Happy Holidays and thank you for our question! And sorry for a very late answer, I really want to start answering on time next year! You showed me at the the very interesting parallels between Toph and Zuko, and I’m entirely agree with you. I’m gonna repeat what I was saying in my last answer to you. I think that the reason of why Toko is not so popular is that fandom doesn't see them right. Fandom always tries to see Zuko as super restrained, manly and steady grown up guy loaded with mature decisions and endless amount of altruism. Meanwhile Zuko is just traumatised kid, and his trauma is what dictates a lot of his character traits that fandom refuses to see. His impetuosity, impulsiveness, anger, egoism, and tunnel vision. And his sometimes happening disregard of other people. And all this melts unites with his kind heart and moral compass. And all that mess is what making him so interesting and appealing character. But unfortunately all these traits are seen as “problematic” and even ugly, and fanom just tries to ignore all of this. As a result the real and complex Zuko's character always is out of any discussion.

Toph is, usually, completely disregarded and ignored by fandom at all.She is being seen as a “gremlin” or “little bratty sister”, and people refuse to see that she is one of the most complex and well-written member of gaang. She has lots of conflicts and difficulties. (I’m telling about all this very mess, hope I’ll have enough time one day to develop this idea better)

She and Zuko are very close in the very same traits that fandom tends to deny in Zuko. Egoism, stealthiness, disability to trust, stubbornness and arrogance. They would be a great pair because their basic character traits are so similar and it would be easier for them to understand each other.

I also always loves how atla narrative connects Toph and Zuko with Aang. Aang sees Toph in the vision, so their meeting was predisposed, and Aang and Zuko’s arcs similarity is basically the heart of the show.

As you noticed, Toph leaves her home for Aang, for Zuko Aang is a way home. And later Toph and Zuko’s stories mirror each other, because, like Toph did, Zuko leaves his cruel family to join the gaang as an avatar teacher.

I really like how toko is similar to canon ship that plays the key role in the whole storytelling, Kataang. As well as Kataang, Toko grows from support and friendship, develops for a long time. It’s 100% “friends to lovers” trope. As well as in Kataang, one of the pairing starts feeling some romantic feelings from the very beginning (It’s canon that Toph feels romantically about Zuko, it’s clear in many scenes, “That’s how I show affection” is one of the most prominent) while another partner have only friendly-platonic feelings. And also Toph was the first from the whole gaang who trusted Zuko and even almost argued with others standing out for him. This is very clear similarity to Katara who always eagerly protects Aang, attacking anyone who can harm him.

Another moment that will never stop to amaze me in relation between Kataang and toko is their colour schemes that are built on complementary colours.

Complementary colours are the ones that placed opposite one another on the colour wheel. They empower and supplement each other. In visual arts, and especially in animation and character design colour schemes are one of the essential tools of the storytelling. Complementary colours are emotionally appealing, they show to the viewer connection and harmony between characters. Orange and blue - colours of Aang and Katara are complementary to one another as well as red and green - colours of Zuko and Toph.

As for Third season I think that it was the weakest and terrible. It almost ruined characters of Aang, Katara, and, especially, Zuko and Iroh, transformed their complex and dynamic personality into two dimensional cliches. Lots of people complaining about comics for ruining characters, but actually it all originates in how third season destroyed lots of things. So called Zuko's redemption arc was lazily written, he was descended  from the most complex and interesting character into the rather boring banality. Honestly after that "redemption" Zuko became much worse person them he had been before it. Again very composite and ambiguous Iroh was transformed into some mix of Dumbledore, Gandalf and stereotypical and racist type of "asian wiseman". he was stripped of anything that was making him interesting and unique. And that terrible westernised redesign of Katara and Zuko, complete rethinking of clothes and armor of fire nation warriors that was obviously stolen from some RPG?

I can discuss why 3rd season is terrible for long time. that my super unpopular opinion

Thank you once again for sharing your thought about toko! I always happy to discuss these wonderful characters with you🖤

[fanfic-lover-girl]

How Harmione Parallels Kataang

So I was reading snippets from Deathly Hallows, including the Harry & Harmione scenes after Ron left, and I noticed how much this non-canon ship is similar to the travesty that is Kataang.

It wasn't going to be as detailed or long as my Makorra vs Kataang post above but the thoughts just flowed.

Unequal Give and Take in the Relationship

Like Katara, Hermione gives way more than Harry to their friendship. Harry and Aang are the receivers usually. We never see Aang truly empathize with Katara when it comes to her mother and her darker side. When Harry sees Hermione breaking down in tears in DH, he literally just looks at her or ignores her crying when they sleep at night. Hermione on the other hand gives Harry hugs and pep talks whenever he is raging or sad. Harry is the exact same way with Ginny, by the way, his one true love (roll my eyes).

The instant they arrived Hermione dropped Harry’s hand and walked away from him, finally sitting down on a large rock, her face on her knees, shaking with what he knew were sobs. He watched her, supposing that he ought to go and comfort her, but something kept him rooted to the spot.

Motherly Vibes in the Relationship

ATLA literally had an episode where Katara pretended to be Aang's mom. Katara acts as the motherly figure in the group. In the Runaway episode, Katara acts like a nagging, mood-killer and Aang reacts to her like a mom when she scolds his posture. I recently posted about Aang's first earthbending lessons and how Katara was acting like a helicopter mom in those scenes. Hermione is not as motherly, thank goodness, but Hermione, like Katara, is posed as the boring, nagging friend. Harry does not enjoy her company as much as Ron's due to this nagging. He lies to her and avoids her due to her nagging. Whenever Harry is confused or emotional about something, I notice JKR usually uses the word "gently" to describe how she speaks to Harry. I notice Hermione is a lot more gentle and caring towards Harry compared to Ron a lot. She gives Harry tips on how to date Cho and coaches him on female nature. Like Katara, Hermione is the one who cooks and does the food shopping/stealing (well she did leave money at the coop and the muggle store so it is still stealing??) in their glorified camping trip. Even though Harry should know how to cook.

Threat of Violence/Intimidation

Katara is always the one who has to bear the danger of Aang's avatar state to calm him down. While Sokka and Toph run away in the desert episode, Katara is the only one left to approach Aang in this volatile state. It's not fair that Katara is forced to shoulder this burden alone. Also, I saw an avatar comic where Aang literally lavabends right in front of Katara in a tantrum when she tells him to practice firebending (it could be earthbending instead but the point stands). As for Hermione, Harry is not much better. You see this behaviour especially when it comes to Hagrid. Whenever Hermione has common sense and expresses annoyance about Hagrid, Harry often intimidates her to comply with his beliefs. I recall Hermione being frightened by Harry a lot. What a great friend. Not to mention when Harry went on his rage rampage in book 5, terrorizing Ron and Hermione. I don't care how much supposed PTSD Harry has. I understand things are rough for him, but that gives him no right to bully his friends and unleash his rage on them, especially Hermione.

Emotional Manipulation

For Katara, Aang was emotionally manipulative in Southern Raiders. He unfairly compares Katara's want for justice to Jet who tried to murder innocent people. He compares losing his pet to Katara losing her mother. Anyone who compares an animal to a human being is an idiot. Not sorry. Even at the end of the episode, he is still pushing forgiveness on her. As a Christian, I believe in forgiveness but someone should not force or guilt you into forgiveness. Harry is a bit more...messy to explain. He has used his parents' murder to guilt trip Hermione and Ron. For example, in book 1 when they were doing the magical puzzles to catch up to Moldy Voldy. The reason why I label this as emotional manipulation is because unless the plot calls for it, Harry does not care about his parents. Unless he wants something from someone. He is perfectly willing to use his dead parents to try to get Slughorne to give him the memory for Dumbles in book 6. He has a photo album he almost never looks at. He never talks much to Remus and Sirius about his parents. He never visits their grave until freaking book 7! So yeah, him using his dead parents to guilt trip Hermione, and Ron too, is 100% emotional manipulation. Also, Harry regularly uses the silent treatment or ostracization to guilt-trip people into apologizing to him. Even when he bears responsibility for the conflict. We see this with Ron, Seamus and yes Hermione. Hermione tries to protect Harry in book 3 when Sirius sends Harry that broom, and Harry, and Ron, punish her for this by ignoring her. For how long? At least a few weeks. How anyone sees the golden trio as a good friend group is a total mystery.

Selfishness / Lack of Empathy

This is kind of related to the first and fourth sections. For Aang, he is selfish when it comes to Katara. In season 3, he does not respect Katara's boundaries and gives her non-consensual kisses twice. In Ember Island Players, he nods along at the dialogue about Katara being the "avatar's girl" indicating that he is possessive of her. All he cares about is his crush and he does not care about Katara's feelings about her confusion and her desire to wait after the war to deal with romance. Aang never tries to appreciate her water tribe culture beyond the pilot episode. To the point where Tenzin completely ignores his water tribe heritage. Unlike Katara's other love interests (Jet and Haru), when Katara tries to empathize with Aang about the death of the airbenders, he never offers any recognition of Katara's loss and instead just tries to deny the airbenders are gone. Even in the northern water tribe, Aang makes Katara's anger at Pakku about HIM. Aang fails to recognize that she is fighting because of the injustice and sexism being done to HER and she's fighting for HERSELF. Aang sees how his friends lost their father figures in the invasion and in the next episode he does not care. Or at least he does not care enough to take their concerns about the next steps in the war seriously and goofs off instead. Enough of about Kataang, how does Harmione measure up?

Like Aang, Harry is very self-centered. Every time his birthday comes around he expects to be treated like a king and have his birthday be acknowledged by everyone. When he believes people have forgotten, he gets upset and pouty. Ron and Hermione's birthdays are mentioned only once I believe. Ron in book 6 and Harmione in book 5 or 6. He gives Ron a present for his bday. But what about Hermione? Zilch, nada. Hermione explicitly mentions her birthday in the text and I can't recall him giving her anything. I did a quick google search and I can't find squat! The dude makes a big stink about his birthday every year and can't even have the decency to reciprocate. I mention Harry's lack of empathy already in section 1. And it not only applies to Hermione but everyone. Including Ginny. If you really look at Harry, everything revolves around him. Harry shows very little appreciation for Hermione practically doing his homework for him. There is also a weird thing where Harry thinks to himself that he acts as a mediator for Romione but his actions show the opposite. When Ron and Hermione fight, he stays out of it and finds the whole thing annoying. Or even worse, when Hermione is feeling affectionate with Ron, Harry has a 'what about me' attitude.

Hermione was watching Ron fret over the fate of the Cattermoles, and there was such tenderness in her expression that Harry felt almost as if he had surprised her in the act of kissing him. ‘So, have you got it?’ Harry asked her, partly to remind her that he was there.

Secrecy

Both Aang and Harry hide things from their "love interest". Harry hides the fact that he was not practising his occlumency. Not only that, he actively tries to probe his connection with Moldy Voldy against Hermione's warnings. Several times he purposely hides house elf matters from Hermione, despite knowing how much she allegedly cares about the elves. For example, when he learns Slughorne is using elves to test his drinks for poison one of his first thoughts is to not tell Hermione. I don't even think Harry has a once of empathy or concern for the elves being abused like this. When Harry is fighting in the triward tournament, Hermione constantly nags him to prepare for his tasks and asks about his progress. If Harry was not such a nitwit, he would have asked Hermione for her help and she would have offered it. But instead, he lies to her and brushes her off. Aang hides Bato's map so that Katara and Sokka will not leave him for their father. At least Aang owns up to his lies. However, I do not believe Aang is fully honest about his avatar state situation after season 2. I think he tells them that he can't go into the state but I do not recall him ever revealing WHY. This inability could have cost them the war. What if there were no conveniently placed rock in the finale? Would Aang's avatar state be locked forever??

Conclusion

That's it from me. Both Kataang and Harmione are ships that lack proper respect, chemistry, maturity and trust. The girls give more to the relationship than the guys and the guys don't have any appreciation or care for their interests. Both these relationships are better off staying platonic. And even as a platonic relationship, they are still problematic. None of these kids are evil (not even horrid Harry) but these people need to either date other people and/or have some more emotional development.

Harmione is not a good ship. Harmione fans can claim how much better Harmione is than Romione and act superior all they want in the Romione vs Dramione war (all three ships are trash), but as far as I am concerned, both Hermione and Harry need serious help before they can date anyone. It's ironic really. Hermione mistreats towards Ron but then Harry turns around and mistreats her AND Ron. Harry makes it clear who's king in the golden trio. What karma. Poor Hermione.

If you want a better, more comprehensive meta on why Harmione does not work as a ship, check out this lovely gem of an essay. Have a great day!

[gold-fire]

Katara and 1 15 16 20 25

Thank you so much anon! Hope you enjoys this answers as much as I enjoyed writing them! 😘

1.Why do you like or dislike this character?

I love Katara so much and although I like a lot of things of her it's also true I don't like other things, really few ones only so I'll just say one thing I like and one thing I don't like about her.

The thing I like about her is her maternal instinct with her friends because I feel like since Sokka, Aang and Toph can't have the love of a mother due to different circumstances and Katara knows what to lost a mother is (must say Katara is such a strong person for forgive her mother's assassin life, it really talks so well about her) she wants to make sure her friends feel loved and protected and it's not an easy rol to put away your problems and concentrate in your friend's ones, so I love that about Katara.

And dislike... kind of her hypocrisy with Zuko and Azula (I know there are more hypocrisy characters but right now it's about Kat) like she manages to forgive Zuko and be friends with him but with Azula she crosses the line? Just doesn't make any sense in my opinion.

15. What's your favorite ship for this character? (Doesn't matter if it's canon or not.)

Well I think it's obvious what's my favorite ship for Katara because it's actually my favorite ship and ladies and gentleman it's AZUTARA! I love this ship so so much and I hope the Azutara community gets bigger and more artist create new fics and draws of them.

Also I must say that Katara's canon ship which is with Aang it's a great ship also and I find it very good and cute couple and for me in canon they match perfectly; it's true I love Azutara and for me is her best ship but always respect to Kataang!

16. What's your least favorite ship for this character?

The easy and obvious answer is her incest ships with her mom, dad and brother but people wants blood and I'll give them blood... I'm so sorry but I can't stand Zutara (sorry not sorry).

20. Which other character is the ideal best friend for this character, the amount of screen time they share doesn't matter?

I love her friendship with Toph and Suki (since they three strong independent woman) but I think Yue would have been the best friend of her, like both are water tribe woman born in a sexist nation (NWT more than SWT but still) and even so both are incredible strong enough to sacrifice themselves for her people.

25. What was your first impression of this character? How about now?

I didn't like Katara at first hahaha, please don't kill me I just was more concentrate and in love with Fire Nation people (only Azula, Zuko, Mai and Ty Lee) and I kind of not dislike but not care about the Gaang except for Toph and Sokka.

Now I worship her and love her almost as much as Azula, she's one of the more complete characters of all the show and the best water bender in the world.

[teaandcrowns]

I don't ship kataang, nor any ship in atla, so when I say this I'm talking from more of a platonic perspective, but I really don't think Aang was trying to push his beliefs onto Katara as much as people think in TSR, just like Zuko didn't push her to violence. Aang shouldn't have said it how he did, but when he and Sokka said what they said, they didn't say it because they thought it was necessarily wrong, but because they knew killing someone would not help katara (although Sokka and Aang are very different here considering, especially considering Katara is Sokkas sister), and we find out later in the episode that revenge wasn't the suitable option for her. Yes, Katara wanted more than to just confront Yon Rha, but I don't think Aang was demonising Katara when he said she was like Jet. This part is really all up for interpretation, but Jet died a noble death and Katara mourned him personally, he was a child taken over by revenge after the grief of his parents and village, and Katara, Sokka and Aang all saw how it ended for him. And in the end, they don't stop Katara. They let her go, even if they're scared she might end up killing him, but even if she had, they wouldn't have shut her out. Aang himself had several instances in which he would have taken several lives (sandbenders) if katara hadn’t stopped him. That’s why he says, “I’m proud of you,”, not because shes proud she went by what he said, because katara arrived at that moral decision on her own, without the influence of external sources. That was all her- it wasn't Aang, it wasn't Zuko, or anyone else. Neither Aang, nor even Zuko, are forcing her to do anything as much as people say, or trying to force their opinions and wants on her. I definitely think that the point other anon said about the fact Aang physically can't get revenge is a good point- it means that even if he wanted to, he couldn't understand Katara fully because its impossible for him to be put in that position since everyone who attacked the air temples is dead by time. But that's the thing, everyone in the group has experienced different things, and that doesn't make it that they're supporting someone less or more because of it. Sorry if this was long, I just have a lot of thoughts on this

I think one can read TSR's interactions both in a friendship and in a relationship lead-up light, but it can 100% be read just in a platonic light. While I don't agree with all your interpretation, I do agree with some of it, which is part of the joy of fandom. As I'm sure you can tell, I also have a lot of thoughts on that episode (all the show, really), so having a lot of thoughts yourself is always welcome.

I do read Aang as trying to at least get Katara to see his point of view on the idea of confronting Yon Rha, but by reading that, I have to ask myself, Why? Why is he trying to get her to see things from his point of view? The most logical answer I can come to is because he wants her to agree with him. I don't even know if Katara doesn't see it from his point of view, because she never explicitly says—what she does say is that she knows he "wouldn't understand," which indicates to me that she, at least, very much feels that he isn't trying to see things from her perspective. I think that's where the bigger conflict comes in, and why she gets so mad, especially when he compares her to Jet. This is where I have to somewhat disagree with what I'm reading as you trying to argue: Katara knows Aang isn't referring to how Jet died in Ba Sing Se, he's referring to Jet's quest for vengeance against a (colonized) town of Fire Nation people. Coupled with that is the fact that Jet manipulated both her and Aang into helping him get things set up to destroy the town, with the intention of killing all its inhabitants.

Just like it's not a 1:1 comparison for Aang to compare losing a very much alive Appa to Katara essentially witnesses her mother's murder (which is a script-writing question I have: why in the world would Aang be written to say that when he could easily have said, "My entire culture was wiped out by the Fire Nation, I know how it feels to lose everyone you love," instead. That boggles my mind), it's certainly not a 1:1 comparison for Aang to make about Katara, wanting to confront a specific person who did her direct harm, to Jet, whose rage was directed at anyone of Fire Nation origin or descent.

I do agree that Aang says, "I'm proud of you," because he thinks she chose not to kill Yon Rha and instead forgive him because of what he said, but he's wrong. Katara chose not to kill Yon Rha because of herself, and she certainly did not choose to forgive him, which she explicitly tells Aang. Like I said, she ultimately is swayed by neither Aang or Zuko, and that also includes her final decisions about Yon Rha (both to not kill and not forgive him). Saying things like, "[Aang] and Sokka said what they said . . . because they knew killing someone would not help katara," is exactly the issue here as well. They're assuming they know what's best for Katara and what she needs, instead of allowing her to make that decision for herself. (Also, Aang does absolutely think killing someone is wrong, which we see is his very big conflict with the entire group regarding how to deal with Ozai, but you are right in that Sokka doesn't view it as wrong.) But again, that's likely why she gets mad at Sokka, too—because he's assuming he knows better than Katara what she needs and what's "best" for her.

And, having those different opinions and perspectives and conflicts isn't inherently a bad thing itself, but it is bad when Katara is seen by the audience as being in the wrong somehow and Aang in the right because the narrative never addressed it and/or the creators tried to push their own agenda of the scenario in commentary when that isn't reflected in canon. (I'm not trying to imply you're doing that here, but I mention it because I've seen many people cite that as a reason in their argument.)

[theowritesfiction]

'The Serpent's Pass'

I love this episode because two sorely missed characters - Suki and Jet - make their return.

I loved how after having to be an absolute rock during the previous episode, this one starts off with Katara getting to be playful and just enjoy herself. I loved her waterbending bomb. She's adorable.

The worsening refugee situation is yet another aspect of the war revealed very effectively by this episode. Can't fault the people for thinking that Ba Sing Se is safe...

Ah, the return of Jet! Immediate Jetko rights. There is some serious Jetko bonding in this chapter and it's great to see. Jet and Zuko's little operation to liberate the food for refugees... @juniperhillpatient, for how dysfunctional Jetko can be, you have to admit, they worked together very efficiently! Also, hearing Jet speak about how he has re-evaluated his life and is going to BSS for a second chance... why the fuck did they have to kill him off? He could have played such an interesting part in the story.

I'm glad Iroh is approaching his return to Ba Sing Se with the grace and dignity... of a complete and utter clown. Sometimes I wonder what the hell is wrong with that old man. Misgendering Smellerbee, what the fuck? 40 Jerk Points.

Damn, the Sukkka reunion is hideously sweet. Suki playing the tough guard and playfully harassing Sokka was so gosh darn cute. I re-watched that part at least four times. Sokka being super protective of Suki after what happened to Yue makes so much sense, even if he comes off annoyingly overbearing, it's still fun to see him trying to protect Suki from a spider. Sokka still missing Yue is a tearjerker moment. I'm glad Sokka pulled himself together at the end though. With how criminally little screen time Suki is given in this show, Sokka you better take any chance you have to kiss that girl.

I am going to give Aang huge credit for agreeing to guide the refugees through the Serpent's Pass even if he's depressed and lacking motivation. I want to slap Sokka for complaining about that, especially when he wanted to use the pass in the first place. Also, I can completely understand Katara being horrified by Aang's talk of abandoning hope. Katara is someone for who hope means everything.

I really enjoyed the action while fighting the giant serpent. Katara's waterbending has come such a long way. The awkward moment of Toph kissing Suki while thinking she was saved by Sokka was funny, but also kind of... weirdly set up? So all the previous abuse Toph hurled at Sokka was because she secretly liked him? I don't know how to feel about that.

Could my admiration for Katara grow any higher? The way she takes charge of the situation after the refugee lady goes into labor is impressive. At the age of 14, she's helped Kanna deliver babies back at the South Pole. When I think back to what I was like when I was 14, it just makes me blush and cringe.

Seeing Aang regain his hope at the end of the episode was so touching. I also remember how at the start of Book 2, I thought to myself: meh, this is the season where they started to push Kataang. Except... they haven't? Only Cave of Two Lovers contained traces of Kataang. This episode? It's all about sweet and caring friends energy, sorry.

Also I love the cliffhanger this episode ends on, the shot of the Fire Army drill was so ominous, like... I don't know what the hell is that thing, but it's scary.

Okay, so only Iroh was supposed to get Jerk Points for this chapter, but I'm going to touch on something that ties into the previous episode. I've always felt that Katara is criminally underappreciated by the fans and the ATLA writers, but also by the other characters on the show, she is literally ALWAYS just taken for granted. She put up with so much BS leading the group out of the desert alive, and yet she received no recognition for it, not even a single thank you? I'm giving the rest of the Gaang 30 Jerk Points each for taking Katara for granted.

Jerk Points for Book 2:

Iroh - 550 Azulon - 300 Ursa, General Fong  - 200 Aang - 160 Zuko - 120 Ozai, Toph Beifong - 100 Sokka - 70 Bumi, Lao Beifong - 50 Pakku - 30

Iroh is really pulling away at the top... can anyone challenge him this season? Long Feng has his work cut out for him.

[perfectlypanda]

I just saw your post about Kataang kiss under the tag #Zuko. Have you ever like kissed anyone? Do they always ask “can I kiss you” or something? These two like each-other. Katara even suggested first that they should kiss at the cave of two lovers. It’s not like some of you don’t scream happily when Zuko kisses and leaves her surprised in those Zutara fics. I love both ships, but Aang did nothing wrong :)

Let’s review the scene leading up to the kiss in question:

Aang: But it's true, isn't it? We kissed at the Invasion, and I thought we were gonna be together. But we're not. Katara: Aang, I don't know. Aang: Why don't you know? Katara: Because, we're in the middle of a war, and, we have other things to worry about. This isn't the right time. Aang: Well, when is the right time? Katara: Aang, I'm sorry, but right now I'm just a little confused. Aang tries to kiss Katara. Katara: I just said I was confused! I'm going inside. [Exits the balcony.] Aang: Ugh, I'm such an idiot! [Puts down his head on the balcony railing.]

As to your point “these two like each-other”, while in the finale episode Katara indicates to Aang that she returns his romantic feelings, in this scene Katara does not confirm if she likes Aang in a romantic way. That’s part of Aang’s frustration - he isn’t sure if Katara likes him back or not. Katara says she doesn’t think now is “the right time” and that “right now I’m just a little confused”. Regardless of if Katara wants to pursue a relationship in the future, she makes it clear that she does not want to do so at this moment.

“Aang did nothing wrong.” Yes, he did. Katara said she did not want to discuss a romantic relationship right now, but Aang ignored that and kissed her anyway. Katara reaffirms that she is not interested right now by breaking off the kiss immediately after Aang starts it, angrily telling him “I just said I was confused!” and then running away. These are not the behaviors of someone who is happy to have just been kissed.

Contrast this with Sokka’s initial rejection of Suki in “The Serpent’s Pass”:

Suki: I lost someone I care about. He didn't die, he just went away. I only had a few days to get to know him, but he was smart and brave and funny ... Sokka: [Jealous.] Who is this guy? Is he taller than me? Suki: No, he's about your height. Sokka: Is he better-looking? Suki It is you, stupid! Sokka: Oh! The two prepare to kiss, but Sokka pulls back at the last moment. Sokka: I can't. Suki: I'm sorry. Sokka: No, you shouldn't be. [Exits.]

Suki has expressed that she’s interested in Sokka, and Sokka has shown signs that he returns her feelings. But when Sokka turns away before they kiss Suki does not push him. Instead she apologizes. Even though they both like each other Sokka’s decision not to kiss Suki is a clear “not right now” and Suki respects that choice. Suki even apologizes again later in the episode; “Listen, I'm really sorry about last night. We were talking ... and saying things ... and I just got carried away and before I knew it -”. She thought Sokka was giving his consent, but when he pulled away, Suki realized that he never explicitly did, and recognizes that she may have misread his verbal and nonverbal cues. While as an audience we know that Suki did not misinterpret how Sokka was feeling and that his hesitation was due to Yue instead, Suki does not know this. Her behavior is very appropriate for someone who thinks they have been rejected romantically and that they have overstepped, but who wishes to maintain a positive friendship with someone.

Sokka cuts off Suki’s second apology with a kiss. In this case, a surprise kiss is okay. He has confirmation of Suki’s feelings for him, and is positive that Suki is interested in pursuing them because she tried to kiss him the night before. So in response to your question, in real life consent does not necessarily always appear in the form of a literal question “hey can I kiss you?” (although a verbal confirmation is a good idea if you want to be sure), but in that case consent should be very obvious in other ways. “Not right now” and “I’m just a little confused” are not in a murky grey area, Katara is actively denying consent, but Aang ignores her. The show should have handled this by including a scene later where Aang and Katara talk about what happened, and Aang apologizes for pushing her. In the interest of a Kataang endgame, it could then have been followed up with Katara saying that she thinks she may like him back, but she  isn’t sure and really doesn’t want to start anything right now either way, and Aang saying he’ll wait for her to to decide before bringing it up again, and that he’ll respect the choice she makes.

This is a topic I’ve given a lot of thought, so thanks for your question and giving me the chance to elaborate on it!

[flameohotwife]

Hello, I don't know if you remember me, but I'm the anon that once commented here on A Noble Predicament. I'm still scared of commenting on fanfiction.net so here I am again! This time I want to appreciate the Tea Time of yours! I am IN LOVE with that fic! GRAN GRAN YOU HOLY CREATURE THAT UNDERSTANDS KATAANG. I have read many fics with her, but she always felt kinda off and out of the character that was portrayed in the show. Your Kanna although was amazing! Sweet and understanding, just like in the show. She knows Katara well and always puts the needs of her family first - we can see where Katara has learned that. I really like reading talks like that and it was so beautifully handled by you! So once again I'm trying to tell you that you're one of my favorite fanfic writers and every time you drop something new I'm head over heels for that! Thanks for your work in the fandom! I wish I could say more about your work, but I'm literally speechless (and a bit sick so sorry for the lack of eloquence)

ANON!!! HOW could I possibly forget you?? You were the very first person to ever come anonymously into my inbox with kind words for my fics and I will treasure you forever for that alone. I am so, so glad you enjoyed Tea Time!! Truly, I had so much fun writing that, too. It is part of a larger (explicit) series on ao3, but I felt it needed a good segue into the next part (which isn't written yet, heh) with some fond, encouraging Katara and Kanna content, AND that it could stand on its own outside the series.

I feel like canon Kanna could have probably gone either way (she was rather wary of Aang at first--"Don't put all your hopes in this boy"--before she found out he was the Avatar and then fully encouraged Katara and Sokka to go after him). She could have supported progressing their relationship (like she did in my fic) or she could have warned them to be careful and been more stern and maybe even a little more puritanical about it (I don't think that would be culturally accurate, though). BUT given her own history (running away from the North Pole and her engagement to Pakku), I decided to lean into encouraging and empowering Katara to make her own decisions about her body and what she was or was not ready for.

And you are so right that she knows Katara well. She would be more observant than Hakoda or Sokka might be in terms of Katara's feelings, and she would absolutely understand feeling stifled at home, and maybe needing a push in the right direction so that she isn't JUST putting others' needs before her own. Katara will never turn her back on people who need her, but she also isn't a martyr. She will stand up for herself when she needs to, but at that age and stage it is hard to differentiate your wants from your needs, in terms of... everything they were discussing... haha.

I'm so sorry you're feeling under the weather, anon, and I hope you feel better soon! I just want you to know that your asks absolutely make my entire day, and I truly appreciate and thank you for them!! I am sending you lots of virtual hugs and tea and soup <3

Tea Time (rated T): read on ffn or ao3