#I think a big part of them is acceptance | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

bigskydreaming · 2 months

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Imagine if you were a gay or bi man who tried a certain firefighter show because of all the attention it was getting for one of its mains having a later in life bi awakening.....and between seasons you ventured into its fandom in search of material to tide you over til the next one. And you're greeted by a deluge of posts and fics that are just cheerfully homophobic towards one half of the newly out bi character's canon relationship on the basis of 'well he's not the RIGHT gay guy' and pushing the idea that actually its fine to cheat on him because Reasons and he's sexually predacious based on......behind the scenes implications people have divined like they're reading fucking tea leaves.

But don't get it twisted....this fandom, like all fandoms, really cares about representation!

Sorry not sorry, but we really need to kill this idea that fandoms are welcoming and inviting and inherently progressive when they're frequently insular and reductive as fuck. Every single fandom I've been in has had major trends of people doubling down on their own headcanons and fanon interpretations of the characters and willfully enacting trends aimed at running off people who like the 'wrong' characters (usually characters marginalized along one or multiple axes), like the characters in the 'wrong ways' or other bullshit.

Scott is a Bad Friend fics overtaking Teen Wolf fandom was not incidental, it was a FEATURE of the fandom, because the vast majority of that fandom did not want to share its space with anyone who had the nerve to like its main character. Survivors complaining about or criticizing the prevalance of rape fics in a certain fandom has in my experience always led to a reactionary UPTICK in those fics, with gems like 'this character can, will, must be raped' in the tags making it crystal clear that some of these fics exist because how fucking DARE anyone try and push forth a narrative not agreed upon by Fandom Main.

I could cite examples for so many other fandoms, with the commonalities always being that vast majorities in these fandoms are explicitly reacting defensively to being asked to be more mindful of fandom trends revolving around or exacerbating racism, homophobia, transphobia, rape or abuse apologia, ableism, etc....

With the most prolific fucking rallying cry across countless fandoms being "No the fuck we will NOT be doing that," because lolololol.....

Fandom is an inherently progressive space, didn't you hear?

#anyway this has been on my mind in general for a few weeks now #and its more about fandoms just being fandoms #and like....what if they werent though #these patterns migrate from one to another as fans migrate from fandom to fandom bringing their bullshit with them #like do people never get tired of just trying to call DIBS and claim fandoms for themselves while shutting out anyone else #who might have a lot to fucking offer if you werent being so gd intent on staking a claim instead of sharing perspectives #and exploring new possibilities?#and I know not everyone links certain problems with racist homophobic and other behaviors to my own issues with dark fic and rape and #abuse apologia but I do inherently see it as sharing large portions of venn diagrams even though I do not consider being a survivor to be #something that demarcates privilege in the way that axes of identity do #as its situationally based rather than inherently identity based #but the way it can affect and shape large parts of peoples' identities begets commonalities #but my point is just.....a big part of why I so often lump it in is specifically because of how people react to these things or #defend against criticism across the board #like most people know my stance on censorship and how my blood boils when its people who are throwing accusations of #censorship at those raising criticisms....#but the point is just.....think about what censorship actually IS in all practical senses of the word #its about shutting down conversations. limiting the flow of information the sharing of perspectives and experiences #THATS WHAT MAKES IT BAD #now......what about criticism inherently lends itself to any of those things if you DONT accept as a foregone conclusion that criticism #is only ever offered up in bad faith and meant as a silencing tactic #instead of just a request or offered avenue of ways for things to be done better rather than not at all?#who is ACTUALLY out here trying to shut down convos and limit possibilities?#is it really the people being critical of fandom behaviors and trends?#or the ones doubling down at the first hint of any criticism and aggressively ramping up how frequently and visibly they engage in #the criticized behaviors in efforts to drive people away or as a silencing tactic of their own?#just saying

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fromtheseventhhell · 1 year

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I want to make a longer post about this someday but: I think Arya's TWOW arc is going to include her coming to terms with her identity as a Lady. This has been an ongoing conflict with her since her first chapter and I think her flowering in winds is going to mark a turning point. The theory of her having an apprenticeship with the courtesans holds a lot of weight and the idea of Arya going through puberty among a group of unconventional women she's fostered a positive relationship with is just too perfect. It would really have an impact on Arya reconciling her personal idea of what a Lady should be. There's also a lot that she could learn from them in terms of courtesies, communication, appearances, body-language, etc. that would elevate her current skill-set and ways her relationship with them could push the plot.

Not to mention she will undoubtedly reclaim her identity as Arya Stark, and her being a Lady is inseparable from that. Arya Stark is a Lady Stark and being a Lady is a social position, not a measure of how well someone preforms feminine tasks. She shouldn't have to relinquish her position because she doesn't fit patriarchal standards. That's not to say that she's ever going to be the perfect example of a traditional Lady but what I think will happen is that she becomes capable of playing the part. She plays several identities throughout the series but she's always been Arya underneath, so I think it's appropriate that she learns to adopt a "persona" that's part of her. Her remembering Ned putting on his "Lord's face" (+ the various examples of other characters being separate from their ruling persona) makes me think that Arya will be donning her "Lady's face" when she makes a return to Westeros.

#arya stark #asoiaf #twow speculations #Arya has been through so much traumatic shit and I think her flowering is going to bring up a lot of her self-esteem issues #I just really need her surrounded by kind older women when that happens so she can have some comfort #George saying her arc in braavos could be the plot of a YA novel?? definitely makes me think she's going to grow up a lot there #she's already one of the most mature characters so I think part of it's going to be her accepting her duty as a Stark Lady #she wants to help and protect people and the best way she can do that is if she has political power #She could learn that first hand in TWOW #possibly through her finding out about her marriage??? and meeting Jeyne in Braavos??#and before someone says it courtesans are so much more then sex work so I don't want to hear it #they are such a big part of Braavosi high life...they're cultured and connected with very important people #I just have so many thoughts on the subject cause I think her apprenticeship with them will serve multiple purposes #the faceless men and their plans...the iron bank...the sealord...It's all connected and I think her apprenticeship with them will kick off #the braavos plot and could mark the beginning of the end of her time with the faceless men and in braavosi #half a boy half a wolf pup -> half a lady half a wolf #I think her current skillset fits well and it's likely she'll learn even more in TWOW #Arya defining her own role as a Lady and becoming comfortable means so much to me

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courtingchaos · 4 months

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I’m just here as your friendly neighborhood podcast listener and current layabout with not much going on.

I’ve seen a few things about Eddie and the community turning on him quickly. I think a lot of things people aren’t remembering or realizing is just how prevalent the satanic panic was, and is, in the US.

Now there’s no chance that everyone in Hawkins hated Eddie and believed the satanic stuff. I mean, look at everyone in Hellfire. I guarantee parents were wary at first but then Eddie shows up like a goofball or has a string of ma’am’s and sir’s and they realize he’s just a kid with a lot attached to his name from a lot of terrible circumstances.

Anyways. A good thing to listen to is the You’re Wrong About podcast. Specifically these episodes.

Very first one of the podcast:

And then these two both have multiple parts to them, the first one is actually about the book that kind of jumpstarted the whole panic to begin with.

This also has multiple parts. This one is about someone getting seduced by a ‘satanic cult’.

These would have been books that while not everyone would have had one in their home, anyone who was devout or at the least religious, would have bought or read their own copy.

Basically all I’m getting at is that Eddie would have had a lot going against him. I know that a lot of people didn’t want to read Flight of Icarus but Eddie’s character is built on a very shaky foundation. The town dogpiling when the ‘Queen Bee’ gets killed, especially if they’ve already decided that he is a satanist? It was only a matter of time.

#Eddie Munson #Writing #also #Eddie doesn’t help his case by acting out #that’s not me blaming him because literally why join the bastards?#when no matter what you do they’re never going to accept you #so stick your tongue out and make horns at them because it’s gonna get you laugh #do you think he ever thought any of those things would happen to him?#god no #if he’d had even a bit of foresight into the events that would unfold I guarantee he would put his head down #or finally just dropped out #why would he willingly stick around a bunch of townies with no more sense between them than two rocks #I have a lot of feelings about this #because the satanic panic is like a really big thing in the US #was a big part of my childhood #I remember hearing about it all through high school and I graduated in 08 #so it hasn’t gone anywhere #it’s just mutated

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stillness-in-green · 17 days

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sorry, didn't see the answer until today. thank you for that but I mean proving AFO wrong that Tenko is filled with hatred and destroying and no one can accept him. we know thats a lie now but Tenko still dies?

Hey again, anon. So, I went back and tried to fit this follow-up context into your original ask—answered here for anyone who wants to look over it again. My initial answer was based on you meaning that AFO should have been “proven wrong” in his assertions about human frailty and how, once someone has been rejected by society and become a Villain, there’s no way for them to come back. Reconsidering your issue (that Deku killing Shigaraki doesn’t prove AFO wrong) with the knowledge that what you meant was him saying Shigaraki is only capable of hating and destroying things…

I guess in the end I don’t think the story believes AFO is wrong about that either? I mean, obviously he was, back when he first told those words to at-the-time-still-Tenko. But now? Not so much, at least in the author's eyes.

Below, if you want to subject yourself to my reasoning again, you can follow along as I talk myself through getting to that quite jaded conclusion. My apologies if I misunderstand or misrepresent you again anywhere along the way! Admittedly, based on my experience with the fandom and what names we choose to use in talking about the characters, I suspect we’re coming at them from radically different positions, but my position is the one I’ve got to offer you. Please know that, to whatever extent we might disagree on how much "Shigaraki Tomura" was ever a legitimate persona, we are united in our opinion that Deku should have done more for him if the story was serious about him being the Greatest Hero.

......

So, okay, the biggest issue with asserting that Shigaraki has any kind of moral core or personality independent of his AFO-instilled hatred/destructiveness is that the best arguments for it all revolve around the League and how Shigaraki wants to be their “Hero,” how that’s contiguous with his personality even from when he was “Tenko” because both fit a pattern of reaching out to the outcasts that everyone else around them ignores or mistreats.

I believed that too! I still do, in fact! I want to be clear that I think Shigaraki still has legitimate grievances and that his desire to make a world in which Villains will be happier is still, in its own way, noble and true!

But.

But that glorious spread where Tomura says that even if every bit of his hatred is smashed, he’ll still keep going because he has to be a Hero for the Villains that need him? That spread comes before the montage showing AFO’s involvement in the Shimuras’ lives from before Tenko was even born. And part of that montage is the absolutely buffoonish reveal that AFO even influenced Tenko’s sense of heroism by leaning on Tomo and Mikkun (the aforementioned outcasts) to encourage him to be a Hero. I tend to assume that the two of them were from one of Ujiko’s orphanages—I can’t imagine how else AFO would be in a position to give two random children direct orders!—but whatever the case, it means that even Tenko’s draw towards standing up for outcasts is something influenced by All For One.

If you take that away, what else is left? I could pick a few little traits here and there, but ultimately, what Shigaraki comes back to in the end, in that very last conversation with Deku in the shared mindspace, is destruction. He pursued it to the end, his last expressed regret is that he couldn’t carry it out, and his final messages to ally and enemy alike revolve around the destruction he sought—telling Spinner he died fighting for it and telling Deku that it’s up to him and his whether any of what he destroyed actually stays destroyed.

To me, that suggests that the manga does believe that Shigaraki Tomura was, ultimately, an existence that could only destroy, and the fact that some of what he targeted deserved to be destroyed doesn’t negate the fact that he was still ultimately defined by the destructiveness that AFO meticulously crafted him to embody. Even Deku seems to think that, in the end!

Like, really working through the timeline here? Deku did want to believe that the Crying Child indicated that Shigaraki had some drive other than destructiveness at his core. One of the (vanishingly rare) times he actually spoke to Shigaraki during their fight was his refutation of Shigaraki’s claims that he’d successfully devoured The Crying Child and thus transcended his humanity.

Running on the desperate certainty that Shigaraki was wrong/lying, Deku smashes his way into Shigaraki’s core and metaphorically uproots his hatred and psychically holds his hands, and Shigaraki still says that even so, the Villains still need him… And if it ended there, maybe we could say that AFO was “wrong” in the sense you describe—that while the method Shigaraki uses to Be A Hero For Villains is warped by AFO’s influence, his desire to be that Hero is genuinely his own. But then we get That Reveal, and even the parts of Tenko that seemed to predate AFO are revealed to be just another aspect of AFO’s machinations—Tenko’s heroism, his sense of injustice, even his very existence, all are indelibly stamped with AFO’s mark.

After that reveal, Deku never again pushes back against claims that Shigaraki can only destroy. He never pushes back on AFO’s claims of authorship of Shigaraki’s life; he never tries to encourage Shigaraki by insisting that his bonds to the League are real regardless of how AFO raised him. Heck, he never even suggests Shigaraki still has the chance to figure out who Tenko could be as long as he can break AFO's hold and reject his teaching. No, Deku just…accepts AFO's premise, apparently.

And so I come back to the same conclusion I did before: Deku is angry at All For One, but he does not disagree with All For One.

I genuinely think that, as far as the narrative is concerned, the tragedy of Shigaraki’s ending is thus:

Anyone Shimura Tenko was or could have been was overwritten by All For One’s grooming long ago. Maybe this could have been prevented if things had gone differently—if Nana had beaten AFO, if someone like Deku had been there to intervene the day of the tragedy, if someone on the street had reached out to him before AFO—but as it stands, Shigaraki Tomura is too far gone to save.[See Note] Deku can end the monster that was behind it all and try to honor the victims that Shigaraki’s actions brought to light by changing the world that created them for the better, but he cannot save Shimura Tenko because Shimura Tenko was lost long before he and Midoriya Izuku ever met.

(Note: One of those "Maybe If..."s the story dangles is Spinner taking some ill-defined step to help his friend, but my opinions are that disingenuous suggestion are just a long string of profanity. Suffice to say, if Shigaraki could still have been "saved" all the way up to the start of the second war, then the Heroes bear way more responsibility for failing to do so than Spinner ever could, and Deku is even more of a fuckwit for not arguing with AFO's assertions that Tomura is nothing but what AFO made of him.)

Of course we wanted more than that. Of course we wanted Deku to do more than that! We spent all that time watching Shigaraki grow and bond with the League—why, if the only reason for that growth and those bonds was to prepare him as a vessel for AFO? We watched Deku resolve to try to save and/or understand Shigaraki’s heart no matter what—why, if everything in that heart was written in someone else’s hand?

The story told us that the best heroes always manage to both win and save, and that we were reading the story of how Deku becomes the best hero—why, if the story was only going to conclude that Shigaraki’s death at Deku’s hand was inevitable because the harm All For One did was impossible for either of them to overcome?

And to me, at least, that’s why Shigaraki’s death and Deku’s role in it feel so wrong: not for the in-universe reason that Deku and Shigaraki don’t disprove/disavow AFO’s claims, but for the meta reason that My Hero Academia lied to us and wasted our goddamn time. It spent over two hundred chapters building up Shigaraki Tomura—as a villain, yes, but also as a victim, a friend, an enemy, an ally, someone who existed in the world he was rebelling against—only to then turn around and spend its remaining two hundred chapters tearing him back down to nothing and then telling us that’s all he ever was anyway.

All For One killed that crying child a long time ago, and all Deku can do is wipe away his tears and then wave him goodbye.

By punching him to death.

It’s hard to imagine a bleaker outcome for the “Tenko” that started Horikoshi’s whole career as a mangaka, but I guess that’s what happens when your chosen career brutalizes you so badly that you come to define a Hero as someone who helps people endure their suffering instead of saving them from it.

...…

...Uh. So, this got pretty bleak itself in the end. Sorry, anon, everyone. I write that way to get my point across, and I’m no little bit bitter about the whole thing myself, but ultimately, I just want to remind everyone that the story is over. I’m not going to try to turn this whole thing into a positivity post all the way at the end, but just embrace that much: your obligation to care about the things Horikoshi wrote—to the extent that that obligation ever existed—is fulfilled. If you hate the ending, well, so do I. But now and forever, we and everyone else can go and do what-the-hell-ever we want to do with the characters and world that Horikoshi left us.

I hope we do. I’ll be rooting for us!

#bnha #bnha critical #bnha endgame #shigaraki tomura #no. 2 green #bnha afo #stillness answers #stillness answers more #stillness has salt #a lot of my previous answer stills stands:#i think a big part of the reason that the story thinks shigaraki can't be saved is that it refuses to reckon with him as his own person #like toga said #the hurt doesn't go away just because one person accepted her #deku accepting shigaraki and revealing afo as a big liar won't make a lifetime of destructiveness just disappear #so you have to be willing to accept shigaraki WITH his destructiveness to save him #and deku and the story just can't do that #because it's too hard and too complicated #and the readers would complain #and horikoshi is tired #and i feel for the man but #well #the readers of the future are not going to know how tired he was #they're just going to have the story he left them #so heartily i tell you:#it's done #do what you want with it #stillness doesn't even know what's in these tags #my bedtime probably #peace out all

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hadesknockedupintheunderworld · 5 months

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Ngl it's weird finishing the Knuckles tv show and going to tumblr about it only for people (even who I consider bigger name fans) who also watched the entire show to claim that it "confirmed Knuckles Wachowski"

I'm sorry

Did you somehow miss the part in the last episode where Knuckles had a whole montage of hanging with the Whipple family and Wade and saying "home" or something?

#sonic the hedgehog #knuckles series #knuckles the echidna #knuckles 2024 #knuckles whipple #sonic movie #knuckles 2024 spoilers #knuckles series spoilers #fandom wank #Sorry do you just think that this entire show was a sidequest so Knuckles could go back to the Wachowski house and be their kid now like #nothing ever happened?#In the show where episode 1 clearly showed that Knuckles couldn't mesh with the household and that Sonic considered him a roommate?#This place was not home for him. The show was about him finding home. How is the Wachowski household Knuckles' home after he had an epiphany #that his home was with the whipple family??#Ah wait sorry how could I forget. Sonic fans are just used to absorbing canon with a toothpick and picking the parts they like and then #claiming their headcanons for filling in the gaps are canon #Only the things they personally like are what happened of course #Sorry for being salty I'm just annoyed. Like you can have whatever headcanons or fanon you want. Heck I loved all those 'maddie is knuckles'#mom' comics and whatnot. I'm not even saying we have to interpret the media the same way. But Knuckles having a montage and calling being #with the whipple family 'home' happened. That happened.#A friend and I are running a bet that most people won't acknowledge that it happened unless Sonic movie 3 shoves it in our faces #The universe tests me every day by having put me into Sonic fandom. It is a constant test of one's soul not only to exist in proximity of a #community who you often disagree on big points with‚ but to watch a bunch of loud people claim things are canon but only accept textual #evidence when it serves them. Or to explain a little better #to watch a fandom try to build an 'accepted idea' of what canon is like that becomes so divorced from actual canon that you get people #saying that it's canon and ignoring anything that doesn't fit it because 'writing bad anyways'#Like guys please I am grasping your shoulders. If you don't like canon just say 'fuck you I'm going to make content of this because I think #it's better'. You don't have to assert that everything you believe is canon and ignore when it's not #i just be ramblin

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conanssummerchild · 8 months

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WHY IS THE GAY OR BI MIKE DISCOURSE COMING BACK I THOUGHT WE LEFT THIS IN 2023

#i have my opinion and im clear on it but idgaf what anyone else thinks #let them think what they want !!#ive seen so many posts about it pls stop with the biphobia !!#and also can we concentrate on the OTHER parts of mikes arc #hes more than a love interest #hes also my son and the specialest boy i the world #a big part of his arc is accepting his queerness #lets leave it at that #i know by making this post im technically contributing but #idk #i just wanted to say smth #i wanna be active in the byler fandom 😔#cant lose myself completely to community before s5 #alex says shit #mike wheeler #byler

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cradle-of-darkness · 11 months

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COOKIES OF DARKNESS NATION WE ARE OFFICIALLY BACK 💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

(long rambling in tags if u care)

#cookie run #licorice cookie #red velvet cookie #affogato cookie #I KNOW im late to this but i was at school ok 🙄 anyways i have a lot of thoughts #first off LICORICE UGH I MISSED HIM SO BAD IM SO HAPPY FOR HIM #his stats are so fascinating to me. i don't think anyone was expecting his strength to be that high #its pretty average but its still his best stat surprisingly #im shocked his strategy and puzzle solving are only 3. i think that's a strange decision to make them so low but I'm open to accepting it #maybe his avoidance/lack of ability to see the big picture contributes to the low scores?#his stats are so unexpected but I could get used to it. still i want an elaboration from devsis on these #i want them to show his strength in the show because i was expecting his strength to be like. 3 or 4 #but anywho. i think its very funny how affo is 0 strength. i love how its canon licorice could easily kick his ass in a fist fight #i really do love affo and im SO happy to see him with the cod fucking finally all we got with him as a cod until now was ODYSSEY 😭#im so excited to see him work with the cod as an actual member. he's a very fun character for me #i cant wait for them to actually make him feel like one of the cookies of darkness its been over a year since he joined by now c'mon #im just so ecstatic that the cod are back. hopefully this is a good omen and will pave the way for more cod appearances soon #bcs u all know how i feel about the lack of cod for the better part of the past year. this better be their comeback i believe in them #😁😁😁😁😁😁 IM JUST SO HAPPY THIS IS THE BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME IM SO HAPPY U HSVE NO IDEA I LITERALLY SCREAMED #btw ik crepe is there. but they're in a weird grey area of being a cod so i didn't post them BUT IM VERY HAPPY THEY'RE THERE TOO ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️#♦️charlie's miscellaneous

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oklotea · 10 months

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Sooooo I haven't moved on from the trolls world tour bounty hunters.

The reggaeton trolls and their really cool designs and music....

Hickory and Dickory's entire thing with playing the long haul in trying to get close to poppy to steal her string.......

THE KPOP TROLLS AND THEIR MISSED POTENTIAL AND AND THEIR DESIGNS AND THEY'RE REALLY CUTE AND LOVELY

And CHAZ THE FUCKING SMOOTH JAZZ TROLL!??!??!??!?! need I say more. I mean just look at him.

I am going to start. A fandom. Surrounding these guys. Just watch me.

They are so silly and I love them

#trolls #yes i have art of them that i am too embarrassing to show off but #trust that i am THINKING ABOUT THEM. ALL THE TIME. ITS RIDICULOUS #just..... THE QUESTIONS I HAVE SURROUNDING THEM. THEY HAVE NO LAND TO GO HOME TOO. BASICALLY MINORITIES.#and now that all the trolls are living in harmony they are much more accepted in places #but???? they still dont really have a place to go home too?? like. not a real permanent place #where did these guys come from? were they once part of a big troll music genre clan and then they left #or is there some sort of forgotten history at play here?#i like the latter #headcanon! all the bounty hunter subgenre trolls end up gravitating to one another so even before world tour they have already known each #other #aaaggghhhhhh these guys were so cool tbh. FAVORITE CHARACTERS FROM WORLD TOUR #GOD I MISS THEM #I NEED THEM BACK #they have a weird cautiously getting along with eachother (most of the time) keeping a safe distance but still wary of one another #especially before world tour cause they would be aware that the giant genre troll clans dont like and stay #from eachother #so where does that leave them?#maybe these little guys had a rare case in which they didn't have the same animosity a giant portion of troll society have #and maybe deep down #as minorities #they're curious of one another.#and that things would be better if they looked out for eachother.#hickory trolls #wani trolls #tresillo trolls #chaz trolls #oklo makes a post

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the-eclectic-wonderer · 2 months

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I always think about how in multiple episodes it's basically canon that Blanche is bi but considers dating women to be more hassle (which is a whole rabbit hole to go down - does she struggle with societal homophobia when she's with women? Has she only been with fellow high maintenance femmes when shes really after a Dorothy type? Has she internalized the idea that her attraction to women isn't 'real'? Her reaction to Clayton adds to these questions). Not to mention how this goes together with her relationships with the girls; making to kiss Rose that one time (and Rose multiple times seeming very aware of Blanche's proclivities), begging Dorothy for 'relief' and being convinced she's attracted to women too.

Yes, anon! It’s really interesting to delve into Blanche’s psyche about all this stuff!

I started writing down my thoughts and ended up with a long ramble -- allow me to place it all under a cut, so I don't clog up anyone's dash, haha.

Personally, I think she has some strong mental blocks when it comes to her sexuality because of the way she was brought up. I mean, she grew up in Atlanta approx in the 1930s/1940s — I’m sure I don’t have to detail the kind of casual bigotry she must have seen around her during her formative years! Just look at the story she recounts in S1E13 A Little Romance:

“Now, you have to understand that in those days in the South a lot of things were still taboo. Certain people were not to mix. So Benjamin and I had to meet in secret. Oh, we knew if any of the bigots in town found out about us, there’d be a terrible scandal.”

And all of this because Benjamin was a yankee… can you imagine what ‘the bigots in town’ thought about homosexuality? Yeah, I’m pretty sure Blanche learned to suppress that part of herself very early on. We know she turns to denial when she’s faced with uncomfortable truths and emotions she can’t deal with, so I think she likely just refuses to acknowledge that part of herself most of the time, and it only comes out (pun intended!) when she’s not paying much attention to things, or when there’s something more important going on. See the two examples you point out: when she tries to kiss Rose she’s concerned with not being kissed at midnight, and when she propositions Dorothy she’s, well… she’s desperate to get some, if we can be frank.

When she’s in a more rational state, her reactions tend to be more measured… but not by much. She does advise Rose not to date women (S3E10 The Audit):

“Oh, no, honey, don’t do that! No job is worth having to date women!”

But she’s also really flattered at receiving lots and lots of phone calls from women, after her appearance as a ‘lesbian’ on TV (S7E15 Goodbye, Mr Gordon):

“By the way, Dorothy, if I were a lesbian, I sure would be a popular one. Look at this, 20 calls.”

And of course we can’t forget her reaction to finding out that Jean has a crush on Rose in S2E5 Isn’t It Romantic?:

“Jean has the hots for Rose? I don’t believe it, I do not believe it! […] To think Jean would prefer Rose over me? That’s ridiculous! […] Now you tell me the truth: if you had to pick between Rose and me, who would you pick? Who?”

All of these are (likely) intended to be jokes about her vanity and her libertine nature (in the same way as Rose’s observations are), but considering a lot of the writers of this show were queer themselves, it wouldn’t seem strange to me if they were intentionally peppered in to suggest that Blanche might be a bisexual in denial. It certainly fits her character!

I haven’t spoken about her reaction to Clayton’s coming out yet, but that’s immensely interesting too, of course. I think Blanche has the same attitude towards homosexuality that I see in a lot of (mostly older) people in my Country nowadays: it’s fine as a general concept, but when it comes to her family (or, God forbid, herself) then the problems come out. See for example what she says about Jean:

“Well, I’ll never understand what Jean doesn’t see in the opposite sex, but if that makes her happy, that’s fine by me!”

Which isn’t a homophobic attitude at all! If anything, if you take her upbringing into account, it’s pretty accepting. But then, when Clayton comes out to her (S4E9 Scared Straight) and tells her he wants to get married (S6E14 Sister Of The Bride), this is what she says:

“Oh, Clayton, please be serious. You're just saying that so I won't set you up with any more women. […] Well, then you're saying it 'cause you're trying to get back at me for something. Clay, I know you too well for this. After all, I know it can't be true. You're my brother. […] Clayton Hollingsworth. You look me in the face and tell me you really are… what you just said you are.”

“I'm having a little trouble putting this all together. Clayton, I just feel like I don't know you anymore.”

“[…] Dorothy, that's different. We're talking about going out in public. Oh, what are people gonna say?”

“Will you tell me why you want to put yourself and Doug through this? You know how people can be.”

“Oh, look, I can accept the fact that he's gay, but why does he have to slip a ring on this guy's finger so the whole world will know?”

Quite the difference from her attitude towards Jean, wouldn’t you say? I think there’s three elements at play here.

1) When Clayton comes out to Blanche, she feels disoriented because this is life-changing information Clayton has never shared with her before. While her reaction as a whole isn’t ideal, personally I think it’s understandable. Clayton is her baby brother; she’s known him as straight all his life, he’s been married to a woman for years before his divorce, and she recounts an episode from their adolescence when he was on a date with a woman and very clearly implicated having a physical encounter with her. He's done everything in his power to pass as straight until this point in time -- I don't find it strange that Blanche would be shocked at his coming out, especially given her upbringing (and the fact that this is set in the 80s! We can't expect modern sensibilities from the characters!). Once again, her reaction isn't the best (she can't even bring herself to say the word 'gay' at first...), but the shock per se isn't that surprising, imho.

2) Blanche is scared because of societal implications above all. She doesn't necessarily see being queer as something wrong, but she's been taught it's not socially acceptable and acts accordingly. Notice how she's worried about what people are going to say, and she struggles to accept that Clayton wants the whole world to know about his relationship with Doug.

Societal expectations in general are a big theme for Blanche's character, and often drive her development; another big example of this is her attitude towards Rebecca's decision to get artificially inseminated, but it's a bit of a baseline issue for her, I feel. She has this whole thing about her beauty and her (supposed) youth and her attractiveness that has some inherent elements, but it's mostly an issue of how other people perceive her, I think, and her response to her brother's coming out is easy to relate to this theme. I mean, she even says it to Rose in S7E15:

"Well, I don't mind being labeled a lesbian, honey, but since I'm not, you just ruined my social life."

So yeah. I think it's safe to say her main concern is societal disapproval of queerness: she wants to be accepted and celebrated by the people around her, and she thinks that being openly queer will destroy her place in her social circle (and she's worried about the same happening to Clayton too, of course).

3) This is sort of related to point 2, but it felt distinct enough to treat it separately. I think she might have reacted so badly to Clayton's coming out (and especially to his showing up with a partner) because he's open about his sexuality, and she's not ready to face what that means for her. My lovely mutual @\hecatesbroom recently published her latest amazing work the odd one(s) out, on the relationship between Dorothy and her brother Phil and how Phil's open queerness might have impacted Dorothy; I think a similar situation might have occurred between Blanche and Clayton after his coming out.

Blanche has a sort of advantage on Dorothy because of her bisexuality, in the sense that she has 'passing privilege' (I really dislike this concept, but allow me to use it to make a point): it's painfully clear that she loved her late husband with all her heart, and she's obviously attracted to men as well, so she can pretend not to like women without too much of a hassle (whereas, if you believe Dorothy to be a repressed lesbian, her situation is much more complicated).

The issue with this is that this 'advantage' is a double-edged sword: she might have the comfort of being socially acceptable, but she's had to suffocate a big part of herself to obtain that comfort. And so, what happens when Clayton -- her baby brother Clayton, the one who's always been just like her, who's grown up with her same environment and influences -- begins openly living as a gay man? I'm sure the situation must have had a strong impact on her, even if just on a subconscious level; I've always found it curious that she seems to have a harder time accepting Clayton in S6E14 than she does in S4E9 (she even calls his sexuality a phase), and while a part of it may be attributed to the higher social exposure Clayton's commitment to Doug brings, I think this may be a result of her inner conflict, provoked by watching her brother live openly while she's been suppressing a part of herself all her life.

Here I'm assuming she's never acted upon her attraction to women before, but there's some space to believe she has done so and has decided it's too much of a hassle, as you say -- likely because she'd for sure do it in secret, given her fear of societal condemnation. If she has been with women before, and decided to give up on it, I still think she'd be greatly impacted by Clayton's coming out: it means her baby brother is a) braver than she is, and b) going to openly face (and likely suffer because of) the same social issues she's run away from. In this lens, I find it interesting that she cautions him about how people can be, almost as if they've both experienced it.

Whew. Wow, this was a lot more than I'd originally meant to write, haha! Seems you sparked a big train of thought, anon! I think all of the Girls (with the possible exception of Sophia) are really fascinating to analyze with a queer lens, and Blanche is always interesting to me, of course. As a final note, I'd like to point out that she does come around to Clayton's sexuality and his relationship, in the end: as often happens, she just needs the Girls' help to put things back in perspective, understand she's hurting someone she loves, and correct her actions. I'd like to think living with the Girls might lead to her becoming more accepting of herself, too.

#this was so much fun!! you helped me pass the time on about two and a half hours of train rides anon :)#this is... Long lmao. but are we surprised? i always end up talking at length #and this subject is Very interesting to me for obvious reasons so...#there's a lot more that could be said i think. all her homoerotic moments with the girls?#dancing with rose? playing pretend with dorothy?#and all the times sophia jokes about them? 'you couldn't stay in the closet for one more day'?#all fascinating stuff no matter how you look at it #i really think her homophobia stems from societal expectations honestly. she *never* expresses the opinion that being gay is wrong per se #she doesn't think it's unnatural or against god or anything like that. the worst thing she says is that 'phase' comment imho #she thinks it's *socially unacceptable*. which is a whole different thing #and considering blanche's whole thing with being accepted by society i feel like a queer in denial storyline really fits her character #like. think of even just this:#blanche devereaux. known for being libertine and unashamed of her sexuality (to the point of being labelled 'a slut').#often described as 'selfish' and 'self-centered'. focused on satisfying her desires and wishes at all times #this woman? having to deny a part of said desires for her entire life? the contrast is DELICIOUS to me #this big fear of societal disapproval was the angle i went with for my blanche/rose fic! it was set at the end of s2 #so this was really all i could explore. but it would have been fun to throw clayton into the mix #i really think seeing him be so open about himself had a profound effect on her #oh look at me rambling in the tags too haha. excellent observations anon! thank you for sending this ask!#if you have any more thoughts i'd love to read them!!#oh and also -- when does blanche say she thinks dorothy's attracted to women?#i don't remember it and i'm *very* curious about it #the golden girls #blanche devereaux #golden wives #ask

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