#I want more interactions between ocelot and kaz especially during the time big boss was in a coma and foxhound era

[lostshitpirate]

In mgs1, Snake talks about how despite being on opposing sides. He didn’t see Gray Fox as his enemy

Do you think this was something Miller taught him? And if that’s the case is that how Kaz felt about Ocelot?

The death pact between them never sounded personal to me. All of Kaz’s beef seemed to be with Big Boss. Ocelot was just a barrier in the way. Another piece on the chess board like him.

I wonder if when Ocelot went to kill him it was kinda like old friends meeting for the last time rather than it being enemies meeting on the battlefield.

[farharbour]

talk about kaz!! we would like to hear 🥺

i love you. thank you for enabling me. i will now say five things i like the most abt his character:

1) first off i would die over the symbolism of his name. like. it’s just so good even though it’s like super cliché to have a character with a name meaning “peace” be a war guy. but it’s like. deeper than that also u know...

his whole existence is a byproduct of war given he was born in 1946, post-war japan. his background is i think an interesting commentary on growing up in that time period while having an absent father who is a part of the american military that brought destruction to his mother’s country. and his mother still chose to name him peace.

he goes hard for pmcs during pw and at one point and because of the whole msf thing he steeps his whole person in a drive for revenge and for violence, but even then later in life he dedicates himself to fighting against big boss’ dream of a world in constant war. like. at that point he’s fighting war for some semblance of peace i guess, albeit in a really roundabout way. parallels to david snake too, there. maybe kinda shows you how much influence he had on him. you love to see it!

2)  on a related note the whole “i may act like i’m cold and heartless and angry with everything in the world but the truth is i genuinely care about this thing i’ve helped build so much that i’m scared to think about loosing everything again, and i want to get revenge on cipher not only because of the hurt i carry and the want for revenge for those whose lives were lost but also because of the guilt i feel about letting cipher onto mother base in the first place to inevitably destroy everything i cared about and the fear it could happen again” thing that was going on in tpp really gets me

i love kaz’s entire character arc in tpp tbh and the ways he’s changed and the ways he continues to change, both good and bad. and the thing i hate most about his character is the fact that his arc was never really brought to a satisfying conclusion and i wish we could have seen how things played out for him. i will also always be curious about the whole “he goes back to foxhound potentially knowing that bb was commanding the unit again” thing especially considering what was said in the after credits dialogue with ocelot

3) and speaking of bb i am obsessed with their relationship. love how it’s heavily implied on like 10 different occasions that kaz is bi and has romantic feelings for him (even if u ignore the whole date with kaz side mission in pw because it’s “not canon” or whatever) and i love how there’s like... there’s trust between them but there’s also very little trust there, too

kaz lied to him about his ties with cipher and i don’t think bb ever forgave him for that. and then bb went and did what he did back to him, after kaz had already lost everything and felt incredible amounts of guilt that was both deserved and undeserved. it’s kind of reminiscent of that thing that bb said at one point about war showing you who your real allies and enemies are, and how those lines aren’t always drawn by what you’re told or who you’re fighting against on the battlefield. like. you can find an enemy in your biggest ally and that’s exactly what ended up happening

and yeah the whole foxhound thing just. really gets me. i think a lot about how that had to go and the hurt he further dealt with during n313 and wrt zanzibar

4) also ok talking about foxhound-era kaz... i’m loathe to pick a favourite kaz our of the three major eras we see him in but old man kaz might just be my favourite and i really could not tell you why exactly. i guess it’s because it’s the only era where he gets to interact with snavid and i love them both so much so that’s a lot of fun

i think that their relationship is done really well but you’ve also kinda gotta read between the lines to get at the intricacies of it. like you’ve got kaz who it’s implied has only become david’s master to make him strong enough to help him get his revenge on big boss, but then by the time mgs1 hits david basically says he trusts him on the battlefield more than anyone. there had to be time between mg1 and mg2 or mg2 and mgs1 where that relationship changed from what it was to something more based on mutual respect, while also obviously still maintaining that master/student dynamic 

i think about that mg2 carrie radio call sometimes (even though it was cut) where she asks snake to play with her “next time,” implying that there was a first time and that he and miller have hung out at least once with her around. like tbh i’m still not sure either if carrie is like a legit part of canon but she is to me & i do think kaz deserves to be a little domestic in the last years of his life. fishing. raising his daughter. having a wife. taking care of 50 wolf dogs.

and i think he looks very nice on top of all of that too. i’m literally So There’s This Senior Citizen right now but his hair is very very very good if nothing else. the ponytail really suits him and i like to think about all the different hairstyles he could wear. u think carrie ever braided it because i sure do :buttercat:

5) he is one of the smartest most articulate characters in the entire series. his college degree is definitely in business. he reads theory and knows the intricacies of world politics and law. but he is also a complete himbo who can barely rub two of his brain cells together

[breezeinmonochromenight]

(Reposting this ask because I can’t even edit the html anymore on that other post and this was too much typing to let go to waste.)

Sure sure, not a problem! I can at least try. (:

Warning: This is super fucking long and spoiler-y for pretty much all of Big Boss’ story arc from 1964-1984 after the cut. But it’s Metal Gear, so... even the summaries are long. Lol.

To start: I’m of the opinion, with the way Kojima does things in his games, that Adamska/Ocelot was already tied by the red thread of fate, in a way, to Big Boss, just by being The Boss (The Joy’s) child.

That said, pretty much all of Ocelot’s actions define his relationship with BB as the trustworthy right hand man. He is the model example of the double reverse quadruple agent, and literally the only person and/or entity he never backstabs (or, really, does most of his backstabbing for) is BB.

It’s easiest to break down Ocelot and BB’s interactions (and, in turn, their relationship) in an actual timeline of Ocelot Betrayals™ events vs. by game.

1964: Ocelot was ordered by the CIA to aid Naked Snake / BB in Operation Snake Eater. He gets soundly defeated by BB and is absolutely awestruck/fascinated by and/or possibly in love with him (later on, anyway). BB even stops EVA from gunning him down, allegedly because he was "still young," but BB had actually had taken a liking to him. Ocelot continues to maintain his cover as a GRU operative and decides to aid Snake covertly, and even fires on Volgin during BB’s fight with him. Additionally, their entire exchange at the end of MGS3 prior to Ocelot jumping out of the plane heavily implies mutual like and understanding of each other and that they’ll meet again.

1970: Okay, so here’s where it gets a little messy. The events of MGS: Portable Ops are not really considered canon, since Kojima didn’t write/direct it, but elements from it are alluded to, so I’ll keep it brief. Ocelot recovers the Philosopher’s legacy but is sick of the American Philosopher’s in-fighting, so he goes back to doing what he does best. He had a “mysterious benefactor” aiding him at the time (Major Zero) (because he is a top tier CIA triple agent at this point) that he was going to bail on, but, after an exchange of information about genomes and creating the perfect soldier, he agrees to join the Patriots - under the condition that BB joins.

Post-Portable Ops but pre-MSF Mother Base destruction by Cipher in 1974: Back to canon. Zero, Ocelot, BB, Sigint (who would go on to become known as DARPA Chief Donald Anderson in MGS1), Para-Medic, and EVA form the Patriots as a successor to the Philosophers to carry out The Boss’ will - create a world without borders that could be considered ‘whole’ again. Zero and BB clash over their interpretations of The Boss’ will and how to carry it out (for the record: they both get it colossally, spectacularly fucking wrong).

BB is iconic at this point, though, so if he leaves, the Patriots fall apart. The Les Enfants Terribles project is greenlit as a type of insurance policy to attempt to keep the Patriot’s icon in place and to make sure the genetic legacy of the so-called "Legendary Soldier" gets safeguarded. It backfires spectacularly. BB is (very rightfully) fucking pissed and severs all ties with Zero, and starts Militaires Sans Frontières (MSF) in 1972 with Kazuhira Miller as his SIC / XO.

Here’s where we start to get to the really important stuff: Ocelot remains with the Patriots as a spy while also maintaining his position in the Spetsnaz GRU, and the Patriots become known as “Cipher”. HOWEVER, because Ocelot only genuinely respects / admires and/or is potentially in love with BB (depending on how you wanna look at the subtext), he secretly deeply resented the policies of the Patriots and the shit Zero pulled on BB. He’s the wrong person to cause these feelings in.

(Also IMO, and for what it’s worth: I feel like Kaz’s position, whether you consider it platonic or romantic, is what Ocelot wanted to be to Big Boss and did his best to be, and it created a point of contention between Kaz and Ocelot.)

1975 (post-MSF destruction by rogue Cipher strike force XOF): Ocelot was contacted by Zero for the last time. Zero wants to create a body double of BB. Ocelot agrees but is skeptical, but regardless, they create Venom Snake using hypnotherapy. Ocelot also reaches out to Kaz at Zero’s request. Kaz isn’t the idiot pretty boy he comes off as, and (rightfully) doesn’t trust Ocelot whatsoever, but they agree to work together out of mutual admiration and/or love for BB to keep him safe.

1975-1984: BB and Venom remain in a coma, Ocelot explores his torture fetish. Gains Shalashaska moniker. Not much to say to their relationship here lol.

1984: Ocelot had fully allies himself with Diamond Dogs and is the stand-in XO after Kaz is compromised (captured). When BB and Venom wake up, Ocelot aides their escape from the hospital in Cyprus as Cipher attacks and the Man on Fire shows up.

At the same time, Ocelot retrieves the REAL Big Boss from the ambulance crash site while Venom is KO’d, supplies BB with clothes, an eyepatch, a motorcycle, a cover identity, and the body double's U.S. passport. They share a cigar and talk about BB creating actual Outer Heaven while Ocelot guides Venom and Diamond Dogs against Cipher. Ocelot even plans to go through (and eventually does use) self-hypnotism to protect the ruse and recover his memory regarding the truth at an appropriate future date.

(Fun Fact: In Mission 2, if you repeatedly tranq Ocelot, he’ll mutter “2 + 2 = 5” in his sleep. This is a reference to doublethink - where a person firmly believes in two contradictory narratives. Ocelot is constantly doing this most of his life, but especially does so in MGSV. He’s literally hinting at the truth, right there. He knows Venom is fake, deep down. But his “2 + 2 = 5” is him believing Venom is real, while also believing Big Boss is real.)

Essentially: It’s not so much as them reconnecting and becoming friends as much as it is Ocelot being absolutely devoted to Big Boss without question, and Big Boss being very aware of that total, unwavering devotion and putting his full faith in Ocelot in return. Their relationship grows from that understanding and works because they never need to reconnect. They are always on the same page.

Even a person like Kaz, who arguably knew BB better and possibly way, WAY more intimately (lmao) was not so hopelessly devoted that he’d willingly be strung along by him. It’s why Kaz is absolutely (and rightfully) fucking seething at the level of betrayal that’s gone down in the final conversation with Ocelot in MGSV and ends up making good on the threat to train one of the Les Enfants Terribles (Solid Snake) to kill the man (Kaz is literally the only person to successfully get so close to killing BB - and knew the man well - this is a very legitimate threat) and Ocelot trains the other (Liquid Snake) out of recognition of that threat and in pure fucking retaliation (who he eventually betrays). All for BB.

[cesium-sheep]

pairings I think are cute in the World’s Dumbest Man All-Star Retrospective:

nsnake/eva

nsnake(big boss)/kaz

ssnake/otacon

otacon/being an enormous dweeb forever

sunny/george

like I actually really like the romance between naked snake and eva in mgs3 (I’m rewatching it now), it feels like it actually grew over time as opposed to ssnake/meryl in mgs1 which was like “hm. lady. hot.” and that was basically it. plus eva repeatedly appealed to and showed interests in naked snake’s special interest (guns) which like yeah fair plying me with stuffed animals would work on me too. XD when naked snake does show interest in her it feels like it’s because he’s genuinely interested on his own terms, instead of just “well there’s a lady here might as well accept smooches”

and then like, big boss and kaz literally go on a date in peacewalker, and it’s way way better than the flirty interactions between him and paz, or him and cecile. cecile basically just seems interested in someone to sleep with which is certainly not a bad thing but it’s not something I find as entertaining to watch or think about from a relationship dynamic perspective, and paz is just A Whole Goddamn Thing. but kaz can meet big boss on even footing and seems to want him around for the long haul. plus it makes him happy to spar during the date which is always Good Shit. although kaz being super angry literally all the time in mgs5 doesn’t feel great for big boss. I think ocelot is probably over his childhood crush by then but idk, I suppose there’s potential there too?

probably part of why I’m feeling especially positive about solid snake and otacon rn is because arc just reblogged a bunch of cute art for it -n- but mgs2 otacon is probably the most calm and confident he ever gets to be, and it looks good on him. he’s super neurotic in mgs1 and kinda drifts back towards that in mgs4, but in mgs2 they kinda feel more complimentary. otacon even gets to be cool sometimes. (and of course I love otacon’s sister and the line about snake considering asking her out is cute but also I feel like she’s more fun getting to be not in a relationship? at least for the time being.) but otacon will definitely be a huge dweeb for his whole life, that was literally the whole reason I really liked the scenes between him and naomi in mgs4.

also sunny is a precious child and I love seeing her be so much more confident and happy in revengeance, and I do love me some earnest dirtboys. it was really cute how flustered sunny got when he just randomly told her she was smart and cute or whatever it was. maybe I should rewatch revengeance soon.