#I didn't realise John was already trashing Paul's music in public as early as this

[delightfullyatomicfest]

John interviewed in Melody Maker, 6 December 1969

Last week I spent some time with John, during which he told me the truth about the early days, the current relationships within The Beatles, and his consequent need for independence, and a host of other subjects. We begin with the group’s rise to fame, and John’s feelings about the way it was achieved. 

“In the beginning it was a constant fight between Brian [Epstein] and Paul on one side and me and George on the other,” he told me. “Brian put us in neat suits and shirts, and Paul was right behind him. I didn’t dig that, and I used to try and get George to rebel with me. I’d say to him, ‘Look, we don’t need these suits. Let’s chuck them out of the window.’ My rebellion was to have my tie loose, with the top button of my shirt undone, but Paul’d always come up to me and put it straight. 

“I saw a film the other night, the first television film we ever did. The Granada people came down to film us, and there we were in suits and everything - it just wasn’t us, and watching that film I knew that that was where we started to sell out. We had to do a lot of selling out then. Taking the MBE was a sell-out for me. You know, before you get an MBE the Palace writes to you to ask if you’re going to accept it, because you’re not supposed to reject it publicly and they sound you out first. 

“I chucked the letter in with all the fanmail, until Brian asked me if I had it. He and a few other people persuaded me that it was in our interests to take it, and it was hypocritical of me to accept it. But l’m glad, really, that I did accept it- because it meant that four years later I could use it to make a gesture. 

“We did manage to refuse all sorts of things that people don’t know about. For instance, we did the Royal Variety Show once, and we were asked discreetly to do it every year after that- but we always said, ‘Stuff it.’ So every year there was always a story in the newspapers saying ‘Why No Beatles For The Queen?’, which was pretty funny, because they didn’t know we’d refused it. 

“That show was a bad gig anyway. Everybody’s very nervous and uptight, and nobody performs well. The time we did do it, I cracked a joke onstage. I was fantastically nervous but I wanted to say something, just to rebel a bit, and that was the best I could do.” 

Was there, in fact, anything at all that he enjoyed about the years of Beatlemania? 

“Oh sure. I dug the fame, the power, the money, and playing to big crowds. Conquering America was the best thing. You see, we wanted to be bigger than Elvis - that was the main thing. At first we wanted to be Goffin & King, then we wanted to be Eddie Cochran, then we wanted to be Buddy Holly, and finally we arrived at wanting to be bigger than the biggest - and that was Elvis. 

“We reckoned we could make it because there were four of us. None of us would’ve made it alone, because Paul wasn’t quite strong enough, I didn’t have enough girl appeal, George was too quiet, and  Ringo was the drummer. But we thought that everyone would be able to dig at least one of us, and that’s how it turned out.” 

When John returned his MBE in protest against Britain’s involvement in the Vietnam and Biafra conflicts, he added, “And against ‘Cold Turkey’ slipping down the charts.” 

Does that mean that “Cold Turkey” is a specially important record for you? 

“Yes, because it’s MY record. When I wrote it I went to the other three Beatles and said, ‘Hey lads, I think I’ve written a new single.’ But they all said, ‘Ummm... arrrrrr. . . welll. . .’ because it was going to be my project, and so I thought, ‘Bugger you! I’ll put it out myself.’ 

That had happened once before, when I wanted to put ‘Revolution’ out as a single, but ‘Hey Jude’ went out instead.” 

Does that mean that Plastic Ono Band is, for John, a kind of alternative Beatles, particularly in view of Ringo’s refusal to go on tour again? 

“Yes, I suppose so. It’s a way of getting my music out to the public. I don’t bother so much about the others’ songs. For instance, I don’t give a damn about how ‘Something’ is doing in the charts - I watch ‘Come Together’, because that’s my song.” 

Can he ever conceive of a time when he wouldn’t want his songs to be on the same album as Paul’s or George’s? 

“I can see it happening. The Beatles can go on appealing to a wide audience as long as they make albums like Abbey Road, which have nice little folk songs like ‘Maxwell’s Silver Hammer’ for the grannies to dig. 

“About ‘Maxwell’s Hammer’ - well, all I can say is that I dig Engelbert Humperdinck as much as I dig John Cage, and I don’t listen to either of them,” he said with a marvellously relevant irrelevance. “I always wanted to have other people on our records, like the Stones and our other friends. But some of the others wanted to keep it tight- just like The Beatles, you know? But you wait - it’s starting to get looser, and there should be some fantastic sessions in the next few years. That’s what I wanted all along.” 

Going back to the past, did he enjoy doing The Beatles’ two films, Help! and A Hard Day's Night ? 

“I dug Hard Day's Night, although Alun Owen only came with us for two days before he wrote the script. He invented that word ‘grotty’ - did you know that? We thought the word was really weird, and George curled up with embarrassment every time he had to say it. But it’s part of the language now-you hear society people using it. Amazing. 

“Help! was a drag, because we didn’t know what was happening. In fact [Richard] Lester was a bit ahead of his time with the Batman thing, but we were on pot by then and all the best stuff is on the cutting-room floor, with us breaking up and falling about all over the place.” 

The present: has Allen Klein made an agreeable difference to Apple, which was bothering John the last time I spoke to him? 

“Oh, it’s really marvellous. People were very scared of him to start with - and some still are - but that’s probably good. He’s swept out all the rubbish and the deadwood, and stopped it being a resthouse for all the world’s hippies. He won’t let people order antique furniture for their offices and so forth; he’s really tightened it up and it’s starting to work a lot better. 

“He’s noticed that The Beatles had stopped selling records as they were doing around the world, and he found out that it was because the record company simply wasn’t bothering to push them. They thought that our records would sell themselves, and they were wrong. They don’t. If you can get to No 1 in Turkey, Greece, Switzerland and a couple of other countries then that’s as good financially as getting a No 1 in Britain - they don’t realise that. 

“Klein’s very good - he’s going to make sure they stop sitting on the records and actually release them. He’s even keeping tabs on me - I usually make mistakes about who to get in to survey my house, and I can spend a fortune without getting anything done. He’s making sure that I do it the right way.” 

Richard Williams 

Melody Maker, 6 December 1969. 

Source: https://archive.org/stream/TheHistoryOfRock1969/TheHistoryOfRock1969_djvu.txt

Quoted in Rolling Stone in December 1969: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/beatles-splitting-maybe-says-john-182489/

Lots of this is quoted on the John Lennon website here: http://www.johnlennon.com/news/cold-turkey-plastic-ono-band/