#It's a lot harder to excuse this | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

reineyday · 2 years

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ppl who think billy hargrove not being racist means he's ooc either 1) dont understand how writing a consistent character works, or 2) believe that being racist is strictly a personality trait, and dear god i hope it's the former.

(long post) (seriously, it's like, a short essay lol)

see, the beautiful thing about fanfiction is that you can place your blorbos in a whole bunch of Situations, and if you're a good writer--or at least understand the character well enough--it wont be ooc even if their Situation is diametrically opposed to anything they might ever do in canon.

billy is a metalhead in canon, but you could write an au where he's in a pop music teen boy band with steve and eddie and argyle and jonathan. as long as billy remains loud and proud about his music taste, plays his (pop) music loud enough to drown out anyone he doesnt want to hear talking to him (itd be funny if it was his own voice in the song too lol), is pretty mean on first impression, and still generally has a lot of friction with the people around him, i wouldnt actually drop the fic bc i found it ooc. as much as your music taste can say a lot about you, if you underdstand a character well enough, keeping the rest of the things about that character consistent and giving an understandable background to all the things that might be different at first glance, then it's not really out of character at all.

so if we're talking about canon billy being ooc for not being racist, youd really have to read the fic. a billy who, immediately after the incident at the byers house, gets a stern talking-to from max and/or steve (and/or neil? which, doubtful, but idk how billy haters write fics lol) and then turns around to grovel at lucas's feet and pronounces to the world that racism is wrong and he's learned his lesson once and for all and also he'll never be mean to any of the kids ever again? yeah, i would call that ooc.

a billy that gets dragged through hell and back and sees and understands that his violent actions not only have consequences but reflect those of his own abuser's at home? or a billy that ends up reluctantly becoming fond of the kids as he inadvertently has to shepherd them through tunnels with steve and beat up demodogs so he can bring maxine home safe? or a billy that meets patrick from the basketball team and recognizes the kinds of bruises he sees in the locker room on him bc he has his own, and then learns what it means to see someone as a person? or even a billy who gets called the f-slur consistently by his own father, learning to see bigotry in other forms and recognizing it in himself, gets given the emotional support and physical safety by joyce or jim or steve, and in the end consciously chooses to be different than his father now that he has the safety to do so?

if any of those billy's go up to lucas after everything and looks him in the eye and apologizes and says he's trying to do better, especially if he does it in a way that's rough around the edges--i wouldnt call any of those ooc. it's all hard-won. it's all still billy, but he grows as a character, which i assume is the goal in general when writing characters.

this brings me to the second point. this is the one i personally hc, but i dont think it's ooc to assume billy's less maliciously racist, and more racist as a way to (unconsciosly) parrot his obviously bigoted and domineering father. billy's probably racist in the way most people dont realize they have racial bias (i would say most white people, but im aware this is true for poc of all sorts assuming things about other poc--and even about themselves with their own race and culture--simply through lack of personal experience, knowledge, or being othered by society/their environment to the point of internalized self-hatred), and probably more grievously again bc his father seems like such a bigot. i personally think the racism comes in part and parcel of the way he manhandles max and gets aggressive at first sign of his losing power in a situation: because that's how his own father does things to exert power over billy. he's acting the only way he's seen exemplified in front of him. (let's remember he is a teenager who has been in an abusive environment his whole life, with no confirmed emotional support of any kind.)

i hc billy to be about as racist as he is terrifyingly repressed after being called the f-slur and insulted for being effeminate by his father all his life. all that insulting about being effeminate probably also means he comes off as sexist too. he doesnt necessarily want to be any of these things, and would consciously learn to be better once he's made aware and has people in his life he wants to be better for, but he is these things as an unfortunate byproduct of the way he grew up.

but we saw billy try to protect his mother as a child, and face up to the mindflayer--a monster that possessed him, that he had no clue about or any context for bc he didnt know about the upside down at all--in order to protect el. it's not a far leap to think he would want to change and protect, to stand up and be better, if given the chance and the support.

so i personally hc that while billy might do racist things, he is not, as a trait, inherently maliciously bigoted. my way of viewing billy has always been that anything bigoted he might do or think stems from his father, and if he gets given support and safety away from his father, i think billy would choose to be different from his dad and do the hard work of extracting himself from that bigotry and becoming better as a person. (see also: homophobic steve from s1 turning into robin's biggest cheerleader in s4.)

it's all about the context, and things like music taste or racial bias can change if your context changes. but if most of your other character traits--your aggression and peacocking, your tendency toward sarcasm, penchant for overt flirting, your determination or bravery or recklessness, etc etc--if those stay consistent while some other things change, and you get context for the changes, then it's not ooc.

now, how does this relate to my 2nd point? if you read all that context and decide that it's still objectively ooc simply for the fact that billy's not racist, then you're viewing racism as an inherent personality trait--everyone that ever does anything racist is automatically racist to the bone and cannot change.

i find that worrisome.

okay it's one thing if you're the poc in question being targeted by the racism. ive been talking about billy this entire time, but i also 100p believe lucas has every right to never want anything to do with billy ever again. he can say no to any apology he might receive. he's protecting himself and that's valid. if someone's racist toward you, especially aggressively, you obviously have every right to never want to have to do anything with them ever again. in real life situations, protect yourself first.

but i want to caution those who think that racism is a character trait to remember that you can do racist things and not consider yourself racist. my worry is that people ignore racist microaggressions to preserve their belief that theyre not racist.

taken as an example from my own life: if you're going to insist that a certain food from a certain culture is "weird" and then say over and over that you didnt mean it in a bad way but cmon you have to admit that it is a bit a weird, and then you get all uppity when i express my concerns and unhappiness about the way youre talking about how i grew up and defend the fact that youre right and the food is weird? yeah see that's shitty. all because you dont want to admit that maybe youve said or done something a little bit racist, cuz obviously youre not a racist, it's not one of your personality traits. you might feel better about defending your identity as not-a-racist, but in the end all you did was ignore what a poc was trying to tell you about how they felt, which is so frustrating to deal with as a poc.

yeah, bigotry can be a personality trait, but it isnt always. sometimes it's an action or some words coming from a person who doesnt realize that theyre being bigoted.

billy is a fictional character. you can interpret him however you want, and indeed, you can make him as nasty a racist as you choose to. you can write him as killing children if you want, seeing as how so many antis insist on calling him a child murderer (even though he's been a lifeguard so if anything he's saved children's lives--and this is not including how we see him on screen literally saving el's life, who is also a child).

also, if his racist actions made you super uncomfortable, it's perfectly okay to call him a racist and move on with your life. that's not a problem until you start harassing people for being racist because they like billy--then, like a microaggression, you become the problem because you're unilaterally deciding who is racist based off a fictional character, and youre harrassing a real life person for it. furthermore ive seen plenty of poc billy stans be called a racist by antis who insist that anyone who likes billy is a racist. again, you're just not listening to poc for some sort of fake moral superiority, which is not cool.

after looking at the environment billy grew up in and continues to exist inside, and his actions toward el and the way he used to treat his mother (before she left him), i choose to believe that even though the way he treated lucas was racist, he can step up and change if given the opportunity.

if you still think that it's not possible for him to stop being racist without it being out of character, please re-examine your own thoughts and actions, stay conscious about listening to people of colour, and remember that people who dont consider themselves racist can still do racist things. bigotry isnt always a character trait okay? it's the way you treat other people. it's not in any way out of character to believe--or write--that someone who's done racist things can change.

#cw racism #fandom wank #racism #tw racism #rei rambles #stranger things #fandom discourse #discourse #billy hargrove #hell u can even write a maliciously bigoted billy learning that racism is bad and make it in-character #itd just be a looooooooong and VERY involved fic that probably includes a lot of therapy and patience from other people #now could neil ever be not-bigoted without being ooc? hashtag doubt #it's possible i suppose but he's a less dimensional character so it's harder to pick up on any nuance to squeeze something more favourable #i guess that's the thing: people who think billy nkt being racist would automatically be ooc #probably didnt pick up on the nuance in his character and think he's one-dimensional.#even tho he's 100p one of the most dimensional characters in the entire show. mb more than mike tbh.#also people who look at steve's homophobic remarks in s1 or the way jonathan literally took creepy photos of nancy #and are like 'oh it's period-typical' like...... really? really????#at least in the 'i can excuse' meme the racism isnt the one getting shafted this time i guess #all of it is bad yall. all of it. dont let steve or jonathan off the hook either.#ok now to go back to this pop star ST boys au lmao it hurts me a little imagining a billy (and eddie) that's into pop music #but ye again it wouldnt be ooc as long as u navigated it right #tho if i were to actually write a boy band au id say that steve is the only one that actually listens to pop music for fun lol #and maaaaaaybe argyle. maybe. i think jonathan and billy and eddie would have pop songs the enjoy #but it wouldnt necessarily be their genre and they listen to indie/metal/rock outside of work hours #and prob have their own lil band and write things away from their corporate lil boy band #found this in my drafts and it still checks out so ima post it lol.#saw ANOTHER post with an anti that called billy fans racist and im so tired of this.#i feel like everyone who says this is just doing performative social justice. please step off.#ur not morally superior u just dont understand fiction or nuance. pls learn critical thinking bc it's a great skill.

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