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thefirstknife · 2 months

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The Thread Unfurls Against the Clocks: Saint-14 and how we saved him

Hello. It's time. I already did one summary of how we saved Saint, but I want to go even more in-depth because I later realised that so much of this is unavailable and also happened so long ago that most people don't even know where to look for it and what to look for. I also want to address all the adjacent lore like the stuff about the Sundial and also how it all relates to the current plot.

Finally, I want this to serve as an explanation that there's something very weird going on and that the Saint we have is the real Saint. I've seen people already super resigned after this week's story, simply accepting that there was a reveal that he is truly the "wrong" Saint. I want to analyse all we have on Saint in-depth and focus on how we saved him to show the level of detail involved because I think it's important to understand things in the episode.

Obviously, really compelling lore changes can happen and work out, but in this case I'm just not feeling it, for various reasons. We'll see, but I still think this is worth putting together and that we have plenty of indications that we saved him "correctly" so to speak.

Saint is a unanimously beloved character and one that is so closely linked to our player character as well. The setup for his return was established so long ago and was kept consistent the entire time. I feel like the stuff in Echoes is almost like a culmination of it all, as well as a reminder about what we've done. We'll suffer for a bit for sure but there is no doubt in my mind that Saint will come from this safe and healed. No matter what ends up being revealed, I believe he will be fine.

Contents! Long post under. Spoilers for Echoes Act 2, mostly just in the Echoes section.

Intro

Curse of Osiris quest

Season of Dawn

What's up with the Sundial?

Echoes

Intro

I'm not sure how familiar people are with the full scope of Saint-14, but he's been a character since the beginning. We didn't know much about him at all; the first mention was in vanilla D1 in this grimoire about the Darkness, listing what various characters think about it. Saint's thoughts:

Saint-14's Position argues that the Darkness was an invading armada, an alien force of incredible - but tangible - power. Some adherents believe that this armada sprang from species rejected or discarded by the Traveler for their sins.

All things considered, he wasn't that far off! Really cool detail, but this lore was referenced in TFS, in the lore book Chirality, and especially Saint's bit:

* Saint-14's Position is the most eminently practical of the bunch, no matter how the man himself protests that such an obvious facet of the truth doesn't require a formal philosophical stance to be named for him.

There's 10 years separating these lore pieces! But they're still being referenced because there are some incredible nerds writing this.

This doesn't tell us much about Saint, besides that he's thinking in very practical terms. He views the Darkness as something that can be fought back. Note that at the start we don't know anything else about him, not even if he's a Guardian. In House of Wolves, we get this lore where the author (the Speaker) is going off about Osiris. We get a little piece about Saint; Saint-14 suggested that Osiris should become Vanguard Commander and also vouched for Osiris. This was the first piece of info that these two are familiar with each other. How far we've come since!

After that, we get his helmet as an exotic in The Taken King (though it has no lore other than the flavour text) and a little bit of insight into him with the first proper lore tab that actually features him as a character. It shows his iconic headbutt and ends with him deciding to follow Osiris to Mercury. A few little details are mentioned in flavour text on the following items, mostly quotes about or from Saint: 1, 2, 3, 4. Number 3 is interesting:

"Stand with your back to the Wall, and not even the Darkness itself will move you." —Saint-14

Remember that!

There's a few more in Rise of Iron, again, just flavour text. He's really funny here, and being his usual heroic self here. That's it for his stuff in D1. Saint-14 was some sort of historic figure, he was a Titan, he fought in historic battles, he fought against the Eliksni and he had some sort of connection with the Speaker and Osiris. He was a practical man, a warrior and a protector.

He wasn't really a full character or anything and only had a few quotes and one lore tab where he actually does something. But the stage was set! He was clearly a character they wanted to explore and they did, in Curse of Osiris.

Curse of Osiris quest

Curse of Osiris returned his helmet as an exotic item and immediately gave us hints about the expansion of Saint-14's character and where they're leading him. The lore tab on the exotic is a conversation between Cayde-6 and Lord Shaxx where Cayde-6 insists that Saint is not dead, while Shaxx is just kind of resigned to it. Cayde also notes that Saint was a "weirdo:"

C6: No one ever put down a Kell faster than he could. But man, he was a real weirdo. SX: Eccentricity was his strength. C6: Talking about the Speaker like you're related to him is eccentric. Claiming he's seen the future, that he fought Six Fronts fueled on the idea that some Guardian savior is coming? That's insane.

Wait a minute. Saint-14 claimed he's seen the future and that he believed in "some Guardian savior"? What's that about? Wink wink. Nudge nudge. To make things even more obvious, the remaining conversation is... about the Young Wolf:

SX: Belief is a hell of a thing. C6: Sure, yeah. One Guardian's going to fix everything. Kick Crota off the Moon. Make it look like us Vanguard know our head from our hindquarters. Hey, where are you going? SX: One of the new recruits from Old Russia I've had my eye on—entering the Crucible for the first time. C6: Hey, maybe they're the one. We'll call 'em Crota's End.

Maybe Cayde should've started making prophecies too! But yeah. This was the first proper hint about what they cooked up for Saint's story. Saint has apparently seen the future and believed in a "Guardian savior" and he fought for the City fuelled by this belief. Very interesting! To make things weirder, there's Saint-14's Gray Pigeon which also features some strange lore at the end where Saint addresses an unknown person:

To my inspiration. Your final gift to me I now send back to you. It will be good to see you again.

This was wild to read at the time because it clearly references something that we don't know about, but that's incredibly important to Saint. The theory was that he might be talking to us, the Young Wolf, but how?

That's where the quest comes in. Curse famously didn't have a lot of content, but it did have the post-campaign quest with Lost Prophecies. They were a set of quests where we essentially had to collect items to transform "prophecy tablets" into weapons in the Infinite Forge which was a sort of interactable area in the Lighthouse on Mercury:

There were a total of 11 of these, with the final one being to acquire the Perfect Paradox. Each weapon came with a prophecy in the flavour text and a lore tab. The final one however, Perfect Paradox, triggered a whole separate quest in two parts. In part one, we discover an old Vanguard comm signal coming from the Forest which we follow and analyse to discover that the signal is from Saint-14.

Detecting traces of familiar Light up here. Wait… Saint-14? He's been missing for decades. Saint was one of the greatest Titans who ever lived. Hero of Six Fronts. All that power and he just… vanished. The City's still looking for him.

This quest also features this conversation from Osiris and Sagira:

Osiris: If Saint-14 is lost in the Infinite Forest, it's because he came here to find us. Sagira: You can't blame yourself for every missing Guardian, Osiris. Osiris: For him I can.

If you're lucky (or unlucky, depending on how many emotions this gives you), you can hear this line from Sagira in Presage. This is where it comes from!

The quest is kinda set up in a way to make you think we'll actually be saving Saint here. We finally found his comm signal and it's leading us into the Forest. He's clearly affected the Vex and the Forest with his Light and he's fighting back. Osiris gets involved and urges us to find him. The whole thing feels like we're doing what we usually do; find a problem and fix it.

Part two of the quest continues in a similar vein. The quest is called "Not even the Darkness," btw. Remember that quote from Saint from The Taken King? Yeah. Anyway, we go back to following the trace leading us to Saint, into the Infinite Forest, this time into a simulated future. There, the Vex get alerted and summon a big Minotaur; Hagios, Reverent Mind (whose name means "sacred" in Greek, so essentially... Saint). We kill the Minotaur and then the area behind it opens; it appears to have been guarding it.

When it opens, we're treated to a bittersweet sight:

The area is beautiful, but it's a tomb. Saint-14's body is laid out like this in a pillar of light, surrounded by piles and piles of dead Vex. The Vex fought him for an unknown amount of time and they ended up respecting him; enough to create a tomb and seal his body and set a whole Vex mind to guard it, and apparently, revere it. Despite how hopeful we've been about saving him, he is dead.

As we approach his body, we take the remains of his personal weapon. Back at the Lighthouse, we use these remains and the prophecy to craft the weapon as it was; Perfect Paradox shotgun. The prophecy attached to it:

A tale that's different from the rest: the thread unfurls against the clocks. The one the Speaker loved the best must have a perfect paradox.

The prophecy is from Osiris, of course, which means that at some point when he was making them, he already knew about the strange fate of Saint-14. Not that he is dead; Osiris hoped to find him in the Forest. But his prophecy talks about time travel and a paradox. In the lore tab itself, Saint attached a letter to the gun in which he once again addresses a mysterious person. This person is now definitively identified as us:

All I have left is this weapon. The Cryptarchs say you crafted it yourself, built it out of scraps and Light and sheer will, inside the Infinite Forge. I'll make sure it finds its way back to you.

Well that's correct. We crafted the weapon in the Infinite Forge. But we only did so after recovering its remains from Saint's body, so how could he have had the gun in the first place? Almost like... there's some sort of a time travel paradox involved. This was naturally bizarre at the time; we had nothing else on Saint or any of this during this quest, just these vague baffling hints that there's more to the story. Especially since it involves our character; Saint repeatedly talks as if he had already met us. He says so in the letter as well:

I mourn that I will never reach the heights you have. To me, you represent everything a Guardian can become. Yours is a thriving City. So different from mine. My whole fourteenth life I fought to make my City yours. I never finished.

He knows that our City is thriving and that we are "everything a Guardian can become." But we've never seen him before. This was really confusing and there was also not even a promise that it would be resolved. But it felt like something that they cared about deeply.

It would take 3 years until we got the resolution.

Season of Dawn

This is a big one in general because they really wanted to be as attentive to all details as possible. Even before the season started, they released several weblore pieces to remind us of Saint and bring up some important information.

The first one was The Accolade, about Saint's past and heroic deeds revolving around saving people. The weblore focuses on explaining what his "accolades" are; aka his purple ribbons on his armour and ship. They're gifts from people he saved; tokens of appreciation that turned into a type of a ritual with Saint. If you're saved by Saint, you have to give him something purple and he will wear it with him and remember your name. It ends with Osiris shortly after we found Saint's grave. Osiris went to see it for himself, to check, to make sure. He also laments that he never asked about the ribbons.

The next one is a glimpse into the past, a conversation between Osiris and Saint as Saint hands him the Vanguard Commander title. It's a good look into how that all happened, as well as the differences in approach and beliefs between Osiris and Saint.

And then they released The Sundial weblore (TW for suicide if you're reading the full weblore. One of his Echoes does not have a good time). Osiris is found on Mercury with a machine he built, putting finishing touches on it. It's called the Sundial. Osiris built it in response to Saint being dead, the implication very much being that he intends to use some form of time travel or some other time shenanigans to change the outcome and save him. Osiris never recovered from learning that he's dead and from seeing his dead body in the tomb. The design is Sagira's, and he's also helped by Drifter, who shows up to check the math. I'll go more into the Sundial later.

Osiris wraps up his work on it and turns it on. He splits into his Echoes and enters the machine to start searching through Saint's timeline on Mercury with the intent to find the right moment with the right Saint to save him; he is specifically looking for the moment when they drain his Light.

Osiris’s Echoes scour Saint-14’s timeline on Mercury. But the corridors of time refuse to give way to the moment they need: Saint and the Martyr Mind in the depths of the Infinite Forest. The Echoes work tirelessly for weeks, then months in the space between moments. In desperation, he splits the dozen copies into many thousands more as the work continues fruitlessly.

Osiris experiences what the kids these days call "epic fail."

None of the Echoes ever approaches a Saint. They never find the right one.

Despite all the work put into this machine and all of his knowledge and skill, Osiris doesn't manage to use the Sundial successfully. He never finds the right moment and he never saves him. It's worth noting that when Osiris used thousands of his Echoes, he experienced the time and life of every single one. But for Osiris outside the Sundial, it's only been a few moments. In those few moments, he essentially lived thousands of lifetimes. And died thousands of times. I need people to understand the amount of effort he put into this and what kind of an emotional toll it had.

Completely defeated, he gives up and hides the Sundial. He moves on with his life, doing what he always does, until stuff suddenly changes, which is explored in the next weblore: Actions of Mutual Friends. Us killing the Undying Mind in the season before Dawn changed everything, for the Vex and everyone else. We essentially created a point of divergence. The Vex suddenly had to change their projections of the future; Osiris noticed this and got very concerned.

While he wasn't looking, his Sundial was found, by Psion sisters. They figure out the potential of the Sundial and work to reactivate it, which they succeed in. The Red Legion descends on Mercury, looking to use the Sundial to essentially rewrite the course of the Red War and win.

Osiris finds out and goes to Ikora, to the City, to ask for help. This is the topic of the next weblore: Desperate Times. Osiris defends his choice to make the Sundial to save Saint, despite everybody else basically trying to explain to him that the universe might implode because of it.

This is a lot of setup, but it's necessary. It all leads into what happens in the season and what the season revolves around; saving Saint. It wasn't even a secret, as they very clearly showed it right away in the trailer (best trailer they've ever done). The seasonal gameplay revolved around us using the Sundial to defeat the Red Legion and stop them from trying to figure out how to essentially change the course of history. We had to fight three different Psion bosses, one of each of the sisters, until the end, when the three of them joined together into a single Psion entity for us to defeat.

As we were using the Sundial for this, Osiris also told us about what he made it for originally. He explains a little bit about it and about his failure to succeed, then warns us against using it for ourselves, but doesn't stop us.

I told you before - I tried to save Saint-14. I bent the rules of time using a prototype of the Sundial. It allowed me to walk the corridors of time here on Mercury. But I failed. I never found Saint's final moment against the Vex. I encountered younger versions from his first mission to Mercury, among others. But none were the right Saint. The prototype Sundial still exists, accessible off the main deck. And it can still travel through Saint's personal timeline on this planet. But venture there at your own peril. He cannot be saved. I have walked every permutation of those corridors with a hundred thousand of my Echoes and found nothing. Saint-14 is lost.

Despite this, we make the attempt and then the first part of the quest starts. When we use it, the Sundial reacts. It reacts specifically to the Perfect Paradox:

The Shotgun you crafted in the Infinite Forge is reacting to the Sundial! An onboard transponder is broadcasting coordinates: a path through the Sundial, crossing two time periods. The prophecy blueprint you used to create the Perfect Paradox must have included this broadcast. If you can open up the initial chamber, I can align us to the first time period the broadcast is referencing.

The two time periods are two points in time where it's relevant that we meed with Saint. The first one is in the Dark Age, when he came to Mercury with civilians in an attempt to reclaim the planet and help the struggling population of Earth with resources and possibly old Golden Age technologies. We connect to Saint via comms. He is devastated and demoralised. He failed to protect his people and he's also under siege by the Eliksni and is more or less resigned to dying. Lucky for him, we get there in time to help him out of this situation.

After the battle, we talk to him. Our Ghost hesitates a little but then decides to do it anyway; he shows Saint the projection of the Last City from the future, to prove to him that the everything will be fine if he continues to fight and stays hopeful. We also give him the Perfect Paradox, to help him fight. The loop is set! This gun was crafted in the future and was brought to the past. In time, Saint will die with it and we will pick up its remains from his body, allowing us to craft it in the first place.

Saint-14: What is this? Ghost: The Perfect Paradox. Built by my Guardian out of spare parts and Light and sheer will to aid you.

More importantly, this is the moment that Saint spoke of to other people that made him seem crazy. As we've seen in lore from years before, Saint kept saying that he saw a thriving City and that there's some sort of Guardian savior coming and that he's seen this future. He also wrote in that letter how we gave him the shotgun and how we saved him. This part of the quest is constructed around this lore. This moment is what Saint remembered and talked about. We saved him and invigorated his will to keep going. This is why he is the way he is.

We part ways and leave the Sundial. Ghost immediately goes to check if we messed anything up and to let us know that there's one more point in time to go to:

Okay, let's check the Tower databases to make sure we didn't just wreck the entire timeline. Queuing "Saint-14"… Records state he was a former Commander of the Tower. He vanished on a final mission to Mercury in search of the exiled Warlock Osiris. Well, those are the big beats. Timeline intact. Good job, Saint. But our trip's not over. That broadcast I picked off the Perfect Paradox marked one more set of coordinates within the Sundial.

The second part of the quest started a bit later, but it doesn't waste any time once it does. We're immediately linked up to the other point in time that Perfect Paradox reacted to and we're back in simulated future, in the same area where back in Curse we fought Hagios who guarded the entry to Saint's tomb. Except now, we find Saint who has just had his Light drained from him by another Vex mind; Agioktis, Martyr Mind (note that the name is more or less in the same vein as "hagios," aka "sacred," dedicated to Saint). This is the moment Osiris was looking for, but couldn't find it, because he didn't have the Perfect Paradox.

This is the Vex mind they built to destroy Saint and we find him as his Light has already been taken. But Saint is still eager to fight and greets us happily. Unfortunately Saint is then restrained, the Vex doing everything in their power to kill him. However, this time he's not alone. We're there and we fight in his stead. We manage to piss off the Martyr Mind enough for it to now move to restrain us, which frees Saint, returning his Light to him as well. Saint then delivers the final blow to the Martyr Mind which frees us!

Saint-14: It's been a long time, my friends. I've chased your memory for centuries. You should go now. Those who could kill me are dead. You've made sure of that. Ghost: And what if the Vex take your Light again? Saint-14: Impossible. It cost them everything to build the Martyr Mind. When you crushed it, they were doomed. Ghost: You want us to leave you? You'll be stuck here for years. Saint-14: You've both done plenty. Just open the Infinite Forest gate for me. I'll meet you the long way around, at the entrance. Saint-14: What's a few more years of fighting Vex?

Saint decides to stay in the Forest and wait until we open it from the outside for him, in the future. This is how he leaves in the right time, instead of too early for his timeline, so nothing else is really affected. He waits it out and then exits the Forest at the time of Season of Dawn. This gives us one of the shortest but also the best cutscenes ever. As a note, in the cutscene, when Saint leaves, the Forest gate looks new, like from Mercury's past. This is because of the Sundial's effects on the surface of Mercury at the time, splitting the surface through time, so the Forest gate looked like it's from the past, but it's not. It's present day Mercury.

When we report this to Osiris, to say that he's amazed would be an understatement. I often quoted this from him, especially when people were being weird about Osiris and claiming he doesn't like us or whatever:

In his youth, he talked often about the Guardian who inspired him. I should have guessed it would be you.

We've done the impossible. Literally. The quest is called "Impossible Task." Osiris did everything and he couldn't do it and he lost hope that it would be done. But we did it, because we created the time loop; a connection with Saint that allowed us to use the Sundial in a way Osiris could not.

Saint has been saved! After this, he settled in the Tower. He had a series of minor quests and errands, the best one being the quest for the Devil's Ruin exotic which featured a really long and funny conversation between Saint and Shaxx. Another one is obviously the Corridors of Time quest which is genuinely cannot be compared to anything else as it was a community puzzle of epic proportions. An article that showcases just a little bit of how bonkers it was.

The important part of it is that the culmination of the quest featured us finding our own grave and Saint narrating a eulogy for us. This is important to us now for two reasons: 1) on our grave was a sword, a sword we received as an actual item in TFS, directly from the Traveler to fight the Witness 2) it's possibly a different timeline. The second one is unclear because we simply can't know when we die, but the eulogy specifies that the sword was shattered in the final confrontation where we died. Our current sword is chipped, and it wasn't when we originally got it in the campaign. So either this is a different timeline where it didn't shatter or this isn't that confrontation when we die and it will shatter at some other point in the future.

In this post I also noted how the music that plays in our grave scene and the music that played in TFS when we get the sword is the same. A very clear and deliberate choice. This is a very cool link to Season of Dawn that they brought back over 4 years later.

With the Corridors of Time puzzle ending and the Corridors closing, that concluded the Saint stuff. He was finally saved and he could rest in the Tower! And we know everything that has happened since.

Okay. So...

What's up with the Sundial?

We don't know! But I want to get into it because it's one of those things that they made sure to hint about, without fully explaining it so obviously every weird nerd online (me) wants to figure it out.

Back in The Sundial weblore, there are some peculiar and never explained details about the Sundial that have been kinda concerning and just intriguing to think about. There are a few lines essentially saying that whatever is at its core, it's not good. First is Sagira's:

“That work was theoretical! If the Vanguard find out what you did to build it—“

What did he do to build it? No clue. The infamous core is described only as:

He turned to look at the fluctuating glow of the exposed chronometric core.

When the Drifter shows up, he immediately reacts to this, fairly negatively which makes things more ominous since Drifter tangles with a lot of weird and bad stuff himself. So if he's disturbed about this...:

Drifter walked to the central spire and put his ear up against it. “This core…” he said, leaning close. His eyes darted back to Osiris. “It’s whispering.” Osiris’s expression didn’t change; his arms didn’t uncross. “We’ll seal the core away. I understand the ramifications.” “Good luck keeping that contained. Not something I would bargain with, hotshot.”

The core "whispers." Osiris understands the ramifications. They're both so frustratingly vague so the only thing we're left with is this ominous vibe of something bad being at the center of the Sundial.

This whispering, alongside a few other concerning descriptions and implications of the Sundial is mentioned in yet another weblore that I only briefly mentioned earlier because it wasn't relevant to Saint stuff; Sisters. It's about the Psions finding the machine.

The Psions could somehow feel the Sundial. Or perhaps just the effects it had on time on Mercury, even while it was powered down and hidden.

“Small disturbances,” said oldest Ozletc, the wisest. “Little currents in this timeline. Can you see them, sister?” “I can taste them,” said second-born Tazaroc, the hungriest of her sisters. “I can feel the edges.” Third-born Niruul, the quietest among them, reached her hand out to test the air. “As can I,” said she. “And something else. The source is disguised. The technology is Human, but refined. Surprisingly so.”

They also note the whispering, as well as its potential:

A strange device shimmered into existence around them. They looked up the length of an enormous, golden spire. “It whispers,” said Tazaroc. “Then block your ears,” said Ozletc. “Do you see the potential in this?” “Chaos,” said Niruul. “No,” said Ozletc. “Opportunity. See how it tugs at the fabric of our time? Can you see the seams?”

They also make the strange comparison to the OXA:

“It is so clear,” said Niruul, reverent. “An unobstructed glimpse into what was and what will be.” “Not the troubled ramblings of a mad thing, like the OXA,” said Tazaroc.

The Sundial offered something more and better than the OXA ever could, implying, perhaps, that these machines have something in common; possibly something beyond simply Vex technology. My insanity about this has been going on for a long time and also helped with the TFS CE lore. A bit of a tangent, but also possibly related, depending on what the core is.

Furthermore, Osiris refused to tell Saint about details of the Sundial, including remaining vague about its core in this weblore:

[u.2:13] One is a manifestation of Light. The other… reserved for Taken Kings. Better suited for traversing the Sundial because of what lies at its core. [u.1:14] One day you’ll have to tell me exactly what you and the Guardian did to bring me back. [u.2:14] We did what we had to. Trust me.

So what is it? Well, we know:

It whispers (very obvious and easily detected, both by Drifter and the Psions)

It's something bad (Drifter's reaction to it is uncharacteristic for a man who tangles with the Taken for a living and deals with strange dangerous artifacts all the time)

Osiris' Echoes are better suited for the Sundial because of its core, and Echoes are something "reserved for Taken Kings." Bizarre way of saying it to avoid explaining it

Similar to the OXA, and possibly any other time/prediction machines based on Vex tech (because the OXA itself is confirmed to be more or less the same as the FWC Device, for example)

To recharge it, we needed to feed it Light. This is particularly concerning with what Osiris says about it: "The Sundial is my greatest creation and my greatest regret. What I had to do to forge it I can never take back. As a result, it has components that consume Light. And if you're serious about operating it again, you'll need to feed it. Nothing is free. Ever."

What this points to, to me at least, is Darkness. The core is a Darkness artifact of some sort, merged with Vex tech. This only gained more proof to me with all the new lore about the Darkness and how it governs the mind and memory, especially when the Vex are involved. To the Vex, the future is memory. Merging Darkness artifacts with the Vex might be able to create dangerous time travel machines or machines that displace consciousness through time and timelines, like the OXA and the Device, allowing the user to "predict."

To make things even more convoluted (and me more insane), there's an almost perfect explanation for what this artifact might be. So perfect that I feel like it's too good to be true, tbh. It's a Nezarec relic. I will now list everything that connects this:

It would explain the Darkness artifact. Nezarec's relics were full of Darkness and were being used by utilising that Darkness

Drifter's involvement and experience with it. Hell, the Drifter may have even provided this relic to Osiris, since he had one and did not particularly enjoy having it, which was detailed in Lightfall when they showed us how he got it. Plunder was also rich on this, showing us that the Drifter immediately recognised the relics and understood what they were.

Whispering. Darkness in general has a whispering thing; the Veiled statues, the Witness, the old stories about Dredgen Yor, there's a lot of whispering going on here. But it's really super connected to Nezarec. His relics were whispering to us in the H.E.L.M.. The glaive? Nezarec's Whisper. Another disciple also called him a "whispering Nightmare." All of Root of Nightmares armour lore has it as well, with Nezarec tormenting his victims with whispers; for example here, and here, and maybe even here. I could go on. He's the whisper guy. Literally, Nimbus called him Mr. Whispers.

Psions. The Psion sisters found and reactivated the Sundial... Somehow. They especially were able to almost instinctively locate it despite Osiris hiding it well enough. The Psions also needed quite a lot of time to activate it again and admired the complexity of the encryption, despite it being human, so we can't really say that they found it easily because Osiris' did a poor job of hiding it. Were they drawn to it? Were they drawn to it because of its core? Psions are inherently linked to Nezarec. It's been confirmed back in Lightfall, but also curiously mentioned again in TFS with the Lost Ghosts quest (timestamped here). I'm definitely hoping for some Psion content in the future but this is fairly interesting in this context. Season of Dawn was really the only proper Psion-focused storyline.

Osiris' coma. His coma appears to have been somehow paracausal. At least strange! The scans were showing that he has "no residual activity" in his brain, despite us having lore from his POV showing us that he had a very vivid and visceral activity. He was able to feel some external stimuli, but was mostly drifting through strange visions, seemingly hopping between his... Reflections. Or possibly Echoes. His final thoughts here are also of the Sundial; as if his mind was somehow stuck in there, or lost, trying to find his way out of it. This could just be a consequence of his memories constructing something for him to experience so obviously it's just cycling through what he knows, but...

Waking Osiris up from his coma happens with the use of Nezarec's relics. An important point to note here is that this wasn't so much about it being Nezarec's relics; it had more to do with the inherent Darkness they consist of and Darkness can help the mind and consciousness move or awaken. However, given all of this and given his POV from the coma and the possibility that his mind might have been stuck somewhere with his Echoes in the Sundial, if the Sundial's core is a Nezarec relic, then a Nezarec relic had more chance to bring him back. It's such a perfect connection that I feel insane thinking about it and it feels like I'm constructing a fanfic, but also. I think it's worth considering. Cutscene of him waking up + article from Bungie that details on the whole idea of waking him up with Darkness and why that's important for understanding Darkness.

I have to mention the other theory, especially in comparison with all the above to try and illustrate why it never made sense to me and that is the popular theory that the core of the Sundial is an Ahamkara bone and that the Sundial worked on wish magic.

I'm not quite sure why this was even a theory to be honest. Even back in the day of Dawn, this never really resonated with me because it seems that the only reason this was a theory was Drifter saying "not something I would bargain with" and... Possibly whispers? Obviously a lot of things can whisper, and Ahamkara have been also mentioned doing so, but I don't find this significant to Ahamkara enough for identification just through that. I also don't think that one mention of the word "bargain" is enough either. Many have bargained with Darkness too. There's simply an overlap between Darkness and Ahamkara here, but there are also other pieces that are more closely linked to Darkness like eating Light. We could go even further, if we're considering Ahamkara; we could also consider Worm Gods, for example. The point is that several things can fit here, but I feel like there's overall more things pointing at Darkness.

What gets me the most is that they alluded to this in Season of the Wish, in what seems fairly obvious as disproving this theory to me. Riven and Osiris talk:

Riven: Isn’t it unfortunate your City hunted down all of my kind, Osiris? You might have wished for Saint-14’s return from the Forest. Osiris: And have him trade the Vex’s torment for yours? Riven: Perhaps you simply didn’t want him back badly enough to pay the price. Osiris: Save the bait for someone naïve enough to take it.

I talked about this earlier, but there's several layers of why the moment I heard this, it sounded like it's here to disprove Osiris using an Ahamkara. First, Ahamkara wish magic would be felt by Riven. If Osiris put an Ahamkara into the Sundial, then he did use wish magic and she would know about it. In that case she would not have said this; perhaps she would've teased him about using her powers to save Saint, but that would be a completely different sentence.

Second, Osiris is well aware and wary of wish magic. He knows that had he done so, he would've probably put some form of torment (wish magic backfire) on Saint. This, to me, indicates that not only did he not do this, he didn't even consider it as an option.

Third, if Osiris had an Ahamkara bone and was considering to use it, he could've just done so without building the Sundial. Why bother with the machine if you can just instantly make a wish and the wish doing exactly as you want? Obviously with a caveat, but still. It would've worked right away. Perhaps the Sundial was an attempt to contain the backfire, mixing wish magic with Vex tech to try and prevent the whole thing from going backwards, but even then; Osiris knew there are possible consquences.

And fourth, even if he did all that, it just didn't work, which would be quite uncharacteristic for wish magic. It's paracausal; it should override any Vex tech in the Sundial. If he made a wish, he should ask for a refund! The Sundial worked only because of the paracausal loop we created with the Perfect Paradox and it had nothing to do with anyone's wishes; definitely not ours.

One interesting thing for this theory is the way they said how similar wishing and simulations are. It happened in Wish and now again in Echoes. Here's a freebie for the Ahamkara theory enthusiasts.

Personally though, I simply feel like there's much more connecting and sensible explanation with it being a Darkness relic, rather than Ahamkara.

HOWEVER. The truth is that we simply don't know. I am personally more into it being Darkness (and Nezzy specifically), but I could be wrong and the Ahamkara theory could be proven correct somehow. Hell, it could be something completely different. It could also be nothing; as in, we will never know because they won't tell us because it doesn't matter.

And technically, it doesn't! Nothing really changes if this doesn't get answered. I want that to be clear. This isn't some sort of lore breaking detail. But you know. The nerds would love to know. I really wanted to get into this now that we've had a resurgence in interest about Saint and how we saved him.

Echoes

Okay, so why this monster of an essay? Well, because Echoes revolves around Saint and the Conductor trying to convince him that he's the wrong Saint. That Osiris acted out of grief and pulled a random Saint from the timelines, that he's simply satisfied with what he got because he couldn't get his original Saint because that Saint died.

Saint is convinced in this; that he's some sort of an aberration in the timeline, a simulation or a copy or just the wrong Saint from the wrong timeline. Even an error that must be corrected.

And I simply think that people are too quick to jump to the conclusion that this is the story being told, especially because of the radio message this week where we're shown that Saint and Osiris suddenly have different memories. But I feel like people have already forgotten the other radio message, from week 1. You know, the one where Saint and Osiris talk about their memories and the memories match perfectly:

Saint-14: Osiris. Do you remember when we knew? Osiris: Knew what? Saint-14: That we were meant to be together. There was one moment... though, it took us time to get to it. Oh, but our Hunter Vanguard, so smart, Tallulah... she knew before we did. All our little squabbles and bickering. She saw it first. Osiris: it, uh — ah, well, I was — obtuse. Stubborn. I couldn't recognize my own emotions. Then, Tallulah told me to.. "Be serious". Saint-14: Haha! I remember. So yes, she told me later. Was good laugh. Osiris: Well, I'm glad you found it so amusing. Saint-14: Who could not look back and smile? And I remember your smile, then. So knowing, and so full of our future together. Osiris: What brought these memories on? Saint-14: Hmm. I think about others who will have those same moments now that they know they will a future free from the Black Fleet. Now they have a chance to find love and be happy, like us. We can look behind, but also forward. We cannot see what is coming, but we know it is good. Osiris: You're certain? Saint-14: About us? Yes. Since the beginning. Now, and always.

We have this memory as a lore tab as well. I think this was given to us deliberately, to show us that Saint and Osiris have identical memories and that Saint's memories were never in question and that their history is perfectly aligned... Until he got yoked. Something changed when he got yoked, not when he was saved. This is a new development, which tells me that the Conductor did something to him, rather than Osiris saving the wrong Saint. Because until now, this was never a problem. Saint never had discrepancies in his memories before, with anyone he ever interacted with.

If we take a look at the whole story of how he was returned, it's beyond clear that Osiris was very fixated on saving his Saint, not a random one, and that we went to great lengths to do just that. We only ever interacted with one Saint, the same one, and we linked each other with the Perfect Paradox. It cannot be any other Saint, even with the existence of other timelines. This Saint and this Perfect Paradox are ours, from our timeline, the originals.

However, other timelines do exist. And some entities can access them. The Vex are obviously first on the list. Characters like Elsie and Osiris have also seen them. And clearly, the Conductor should be capable of this as well. It's beyond clear now that the Conductor is Maya Sundaresh. Maya, who was simulated 227 times by the Vex and had those 227 copies of her wandering the Vex network and different timelines.

If the Conductor knows where to look and how, she could see these timelines, including these other Saints, and she could've fed Saint false information while he was yoked. Implanting memories of other Saints perhaps, or something similar.

I know a lot of people weren't there for Dawn, let alone Curse. There's a lot of information about Saint here and a lot of really interesting clues from the past about what's happening now. It's also really interesting how many little details have been transferred through the story over time, showing that this is a plotline they care about very much and want to make sure doesn't get messed up.

There's probably a lot more stuff we could get into for speculation and explanations because there's still more stuff that plays a role in this. The Infinite Forest is a big one, and I suspect the Perfect Paradox is as well, as we're likely to get it next week or the week after as part of the story. Because it should be relevant to the story! It's an inherent part of Saint's story and why he's with us now in the first place.

So what's really going on? We're not entirely sure yet, but assuming that the Conductor is correct and that her messing with Saint is revealing something about Saint's legitimacy is I believe wrong. I think she's using him as an experiment and that she's messing with him, and by extension, with us as well. There's no way that we've had a "wrong" Saint this whole time and that nobody ever had any issues with him. That nobody had any discrepancies between memories with him. Not Osiris, not Ikora, not Shaxx, not Saladin, not Zavala or anyone else Saint interacted with since he's been back. As I mentioned, literally the first radio message shows us Saint and Osiris with matching memories.

It only started after he was yoked. Which means that the yoke and the Conductor did something to him, possibly shown him some other timelines or fed him false information.

Can't wait to see where this is going. I'm not sure how much this Act will cover and if we'll get a resolution to this right now or if it will stretch to Act 3, though if it doesn't get stretched, then I wonder what will the draw of Act 3 even be. Possibly just dealing with the Conductor? I'm very excited. This episode being so focused on Saint and Osiris and the whole throwbacks to Dawn and other past content has been really good. I'm enjoying it very much, this is my entire jam. I had high hopes for Echoes and so far it's been going great.

I'm super excited to see how they solve this and what comes of it and how much of this information will be relevant. And of course, if it will end up being correct! Because as much as I have my theories and as much as I'm convinced that there's something off here and that our Saint cannot be the wrong Saint, I could still be wrong. Looking forward to finding out!

#destiny 2 #saint-14 #osiris #vex #conductor #long post #lore vibing #i hope that this is also helpful to people!#i genuinely could've gotten into more. there are several unhinged tangents to go into at any point

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shadowfloofster · 1 year

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I've seen people say you can't compare the QSMP to the DSMP because they're both completely different servers with different starts.

The thing is you can compare them. Not the stories told themselves because of course they're going to be different as they're 2 servers with different starts with 2 nearly completely different sets of people.

You can compare the treatment of the creators by the fandom, players (other cc on the server) and admins though.

Foolish for example. He made SO many amazing high quality builds to use and be shown to people. Ranboo and Tubbo had him build a giant mansion for them to live in! Yet it was entered maybe once after being finished. Foolish was able to use his builds for his own lore maybe once. Only a few people like Bad really acknowledged them by messing around in the area of them or adding something easy to get rid of to them as jokes.

Bad's treatment on the DSMP was frustrating to watch. He was the butt of the joke every time he was around. People would constantly swear on his streams because it was so funny for them! They constantly destroyed his and Skeppy's house and griefed the front of it. No one other than his friends really listened to him about things. And the egg arc was supposed to be something that was a massive danger to the server! But how does the server and fandom not directly involved treat it? Like a joke. Bad and his friends clearly worked really hard on this arc to include more than just the 'main characters' and their small circle, yet it was brushed off as if nothing by the players and fandom, treated like it was stupid.

Quackity's lore just kinda- happened. There isn't much I can say as I don't remember a lot of it tbh which isn't a great sign.

Philza and Wilbur probably got the better end of the stick for lore due to being connected to the main lorr, but it still wasn't great for them either.

A lot of CCs not on the QSMP have mentioned how the communication for the server was terrible too. At the start of lore on the DSMP, it made sense as they were purely doing improve so there wasn't really anyone to run things through. But the fact the issue was bad the entire time made the CCs on the server feel ignored and not want to play on it.

It was rare for people to interact with others outside their already established circles unless they're friends outside the server.

Now with the QSMP

Foolish has built multiple things on the server and has been acknowledged by everyone at this point. Bad might mess with them a lot still and encourage others to join him but you can tell the respect people still have for each one. Vagetta wants a version of the statue Foolish built him on other servers. People and fandom admire his builds and always make sure that if there's any damage to it, it's easily undone. Cellbit has made the castle Foolish built him his home the moment it was finished, he's been using it since. He paid him fully and made sure he was fully supplied and had company while building, staying on for hours to talk to him as he built.

Bad is respected by everyone on the server. He's taken seriously by everyone. Everyone trusts him with their kid's lives. Phil asks Bad to babysit Tallulah and Chayanne if he can't. The french trust Bad more than anyone outside their language group. Forever trusts Bad the most on the server other than Baghera. If someone needs something they'll go to him. All the eggs love him and so does the fandom. He's part of the joke instead of the butt of it. He can laugh along with the jokes made, even ones directed at him. When people swear on his streams and he languages them, they immediately apologize and switch to one of Bad's replacements (fudge being the main one) and no one makes fun of it either! They don't start swearing relentlessly at him to annoy him.

Even though Quackity doesn't show up often, when he does people are happy to interact with him and update him on what's happened if he wants it.

People can be off the server for weeks without being isolated because they're not keeping up with major lore, especially as people are happy to update anyone on anything they want to know. Hell people can be on a lot without being involved in lore but still be included as much as anyone else! As soon as there's a threat to the eggs or a new way to protect them, it spreads to everyone like wildfire and everyone's taken it on within a week.

The new arrivals are always welcomed by the islanders already there. They support them and treat with the same respect they do with everyone else. They merge with everyone else nearly immediately and become part of the community without hesitation.

The communication with the admins is clearly amazing too. Philza has pointed out how appreciated he feels compared to other servers. When an egg dies unfairly they're quick to get back to them within hours. If there's a general issues they're quick to get back to them and fix things. People are allowed to have their own stories alongside the main one. Events are planned and discussed so everyones aware before it happens. Anyone who wants to take part is welcome to if it's a big thing due to how open they usually are (rescuing Cellbit and Felps, travelling to Bobby's death site, etc). Thinfs are adapted and changed when needed and all CCs are in the loop.

Being able to watch the QSMP and not feel like any POV I watch is being mistreated or ignored is great. I couldn't watch anything but lore streams with the DSMP because Bad was my main POV and it made me so uncomfortable to watch him being made fun of constantly and be treated as a joke.

The QSMP feels like a community of people, instead of factions trying to go against each other. DSMP was my first and only smp experience and while it was great at first, it quickly soured. The QSMP treats it's CCs and fandom as if they genuinely matter, making sure everyone is welcomed and no one is isolated.

#qsmp #it feels so nice to watch #Bad has always been my main POV for years now as I enjoy watching him most #so watching him constantly made fun of and treated as a joke on the DSMP was horrible to watch #Seeing the contrast of that compared to how respected he is on the QSMP is so nice #While his chat is starting to not be too great #The fandom and the people treat him so well #They all interact with people they haven't with before and they make such amazing dynamics to watch #Small rant thing because I appreciate Quackity making the QSMP so much #the love and care is clear in the way everything's been done on the server #the admins and people have been carefully chosen and it shows so well

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glade-constellation · 1 month

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I think I’m starting to realize that Nexus may be one of the most misunderstood characters in the show.

Am I a fan of Nexus? No, not really. I find him funny to watch because, besides EAPS Monty, he says the most out of pocket shit. Never know what to expect when he opens his mouth. But besides that, I just can’t find any interest in him.

That being said, I recently have been doing a deep dive of his character to prove a theory I had, which turned out to be partially canon in today’s episode. I didn’t think Nexus had the Ruin virus, I don’t think he ever had it. After watching one of the introductory episodes in EAPS, I started to theorize that Nexus became what he is purely because he is a Moon. I still think this is true, and was simply sped up by the harvesting of dark star power.

This might be a long post, so strap in.

So. Nexus. I don’t feel dramatic in saying he’s possibly one of the most hated TSAMS characters, or at least most of the fandom’s least favorite. A good bit of the fandom believed he was infected by the Ruin virus, or was just a victim of terrible story writing, because it just didn’t seem possible for him to go this far. Sure, he was deeply traumatized by Solar’s death on top of many other things, but that didn’t seem like it would turn him completely evil. I was also one of the people who believed the Infection theory, as shown by my many posts during Nexus’ corruption arc.

Funnily enough, it was Eclipse of all characters that changed my view of Nexus and who he is. During “Eclipse and Puppet meet the NEW SUN”, Eclipse makes a very big point in relating himself back to the original Moon. It’s something I remembered from Eclipse’s lore, but had never really sat down and thought over. I believe @/samoftheswamp had a post that I 100% agreed with. Eclipse has all the memories of the original Moon before the separation, but is only made up of the kill code and very small fragments of Moon coding-wise. Everything else about Eclipse in that regard was filled in by Sun. He then continued to tear apart his own coding to make Bloodmoon and Lunar. Despite all of this, due to his memories, Eclipse still very much considers himself to be the original Moon.

How does any of this relate to Nexus? Simple. The coding and memories. Despite Eclipse and Nexus being completely opposites in both of those things, Eclipse still falls in line with Moons far more than he does Suns. V4 Eclipse talks a lot about how much his old self, and even current self, acts so similar to Moons. Though he appears as a Sun, Eclipse is a Moon by emotional and psychological standards.

I would also like to point out that Solar specifically say the only reason he was different from most Eclipse’s was due to his Sun’s influence. Everything that happened to Eclipse also happened to Solar up until his Sun decided to try and help him. That means that Solar also falls under the Moon category.

Now that we’ve established who counts as a Moon, let’s get into why this is important. One thing every single Moon has had in common so far is their villain arc. Moon has had several mini ones, mostly influenced by other people. Eclipse was a villain up until very recently. Solar was almost a villain until his Sun stepped in. Killcode was a villain until his change of heart. Bloodmoon was just, a villain. Hell, even Cringe Dimension Moon went evil. And now we have Nexus.

Am I saying all Moons are destined to become villains? Yes, but no. I think all Moons have a possibility of becoming a villain, and it is their choice to be one or not. Every Moon we meet tends to go through some sort of catastrophic event that leads them to this choice. OG Moon was built with a kill code. Eclipse, Solar, KC, and Bloodmoon all were a piece of that kill code in some way, on top of other trauma in some cases. Nexus never had the kill code, but he’s been through several different instances of trauma. He literally woke up to the world under Eclipse’s rule. He also had to witness the death of someone he considered a brother in his very own arms. All of these characters have had an instance where they were able to choose between being good or evil. Solar shows that Eclipse didn’t have to be evil, his coding wasn’t fully controlling his actions. He chose to be a villain. Killcode was evil by design, but chose to become good, whereas Bloodmoon was accidentally created as a murderbot and chose to stay evil.

I really want to focus in on Eclipse and Solar real quick. A lot of these characters are antithesis of each other, but Eclipse and Solar are supposed to be the perfectly representation of “what if”. Solar’s whole existence shows that Eclipse chose the path he went on. Could he have been influenced by the kill code? Yeah, definitely. That’s totally an option. But Solar was just as corrupted by our understanding. The only reason he was able to become good was because someone stepped in. Someone treated him like a person and showed him a different way. Eclipse never had that, and ended up choosing the path of evil since that influence was never given to him.

All this to say, it is completely in character for Nexus to have chosen the path of a villain by his own volition. Moons have always been portrayed to have the ability to turn evil. It has never actually mattered what their coding is or what trauma they have been through, every Moon has had a moment where they have had to make a choice. Will they be a hero, or become the villain they were “destined” to be?

I do not think Nexus was of complete clear consciousness when making this decision. Not because of a virus or kill code, not even the dark star power he may have had a the time. It was simply his mental health. Eclipse and Solar are a perfect example of how mental health can completely change a character. Nexus’ entire life was made up of disaster after disaster, which he felt completely responsible for. When Solar died in his arms, it was his snapping point. He was standing on the edge, teetering between sanity and insanity. He felt as if his family abandoned him, on top of his already present self blame and hatred, and he fell. (It does not help that his family failed pretty spectacularly in helping him, but that is the reality of most situations like this. We as an audience were of sound mind when coming up with ways to help Nexus, but the Celestial family was not. They all had their own things to focus on, and couldn’t give Nexus the help he truly needed, despite them thinking they had. Hindsight is a bitch when it comes to scenarios such as this.)

I don’t like Nexus. The story they seem to be telling with his current character arc is the same as Bloodmoon’s, that some people just aren’t worth saving. I do not believe in this sentiment at all, and also believe Nexus could have been handled much better than he currently is. But I cannot deny that how he is acting is actually incredibly plausible. It is not out of character for him to have become what he currently is, even without outside influences. Him harvesting dark star power just happens to make his fall into insanity even more likely.

(I would like to add that none of what I just wrote was against the writers and/or actors in any way. This is a “forever” roleplay show made using VRChat on YouTube. I am in no way expecting greatness. I enjoy having Nexus and characters like EAPS Monty specifically because they play into my more out of pocket sense of humor. I would also like to reiterate that all of this is simply a theory, and how I view the characters of the show. You are completely allowed to have your own opinion! Also, if you read this whole post, thank you! Even if we don’t agree, I am grateful you put time into reading this extensive post.)

#🌟 Ten Talks #tsams #sams #the sun and moon show #sun and moon show #tsams nexus #long post #character analysis

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unhappytimeleaper · 1 year

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Character analysis; main concepts

A lot of this references some hints to lore and stuff I found. Not a lot are direct spoilers, but since Venti is built on his vagueness to his past, this likely will be able to be subject to change as time goes on.

Also, I wasn't sure if I asked if anyone would reply to whom to pick for my analysis. I asked some friends on a Yandere discord server, and in passing, one of them mentioned Venti, so I just went with it. Shout out to them. I hate making decisions. And leaper lore, but Venti is the reason I got into Genshin, so I guess it's fitting he is first.

Anyway, that means sending who I should do next. I'd prefer to space Genshin characters out, but anyone on my lists can be requested, as well as general requests being open.

The final quick personal note is I wanted to thank everyone for the 150 followers. I know it's not a lot, but I am thankful for the handful I know have been around for a while and for those who have considered following; Tumblr and most other SNS are rough for creators as reblog ratios are so low and other issues, but I am very grateful for those who keep coming back.

Venti [Barbatos]; Unedited. Gender neutral reader. Part 1 of 3

Warnings; yandere!! It touches on every main category of the troupe, so if you are sensitive to manipulation [emotional and mental], alcoholism, codependency, guilt [even self-imposed], obsession, lying, stalking, some general creepy behavior, breaking and entering, possessiveness, delusional thoughts, unwanted touching [sfw], and anything else you can think of being related to yandere troupes, then it's best to just not read. Also, a massive warning for talks about religion, idolization in the 'church,' and abuse of power within religious settings.

Word Count: 8.4K

This blog is 17+ please have your age in your bio or tagged; any ageless blog and below the age asked for will be blocked at the end of the week.

Maxed Stats

General manipulation

As a key component, Venti is a general trickster; he comes naturally with the skills of forgery, fabrication, pilfering, and illusion-making. These tools under his control make him naturally an enigma but build into easy traits of manipulation as he needs not just to you but to anyone. And for an early establishment, Venti's natural manipulation is not just tied to these specific skills. Still, it almost comes coded into how he exists as more of himself is revealed. Though these particular skills of lying are much harder to pick up on, between the riddles of his words and decent, innocent appearance, it's easy for him to pull off a twist of words or lie his way out of a situation.

As pointed out, manipulation is a skill that Venti can best use against anyone. To you, he is likely able to find excuses to keep up his actions. Outside of the wall of Mondstadt, he can quickly find reasonings as to why he's there, too. More often than not, he's somewhere close. While in areas like Windwail and Brightcrown, he can stay hidden, only needing to reveal himself if you find yourself in trouble, in regions like Starfell and Galesong, you can often see him not too far off in the distance. Even if you doubt his reasoning, it's hard to find proof of his stalking, making the moments unsettling, but his cuteness and way of words make it hard to get upset. Guilt festers as he looks so sad with accusations of something more sinister and that he has ulterior motives. Or how within the walls Venti is quick to find you and cling on, either in close proximity of walking or physically bound to you somehow— it's easy to tell when he's been drinking as he tends to be much more touchy in those moments. While it takes a lot for him to truly get drunk, he likes to play it up as there are so many more benefits and things you let slide. You have to take care of him in some way, and he always has a reason to be around longer.

In cases of late nights together, Venti sometimes lets you feel as if you have the upper hand, too. Pretending to be more drunk than he is and more open, allowing you to handle your chance at burning questions as he wistfully gives answers. Often, they are still vague but do let you delve more into his past, the trauma he has endured, or the loneliness that has come into his life. The more you learn, the more guilt grows at the idea of rejecting him. Of leaving Mondstadt in favor of exploration or answers. It's also not one where everything he shares is a goal of manipulating these feelings or actions.

Venti's love is absolute; for that, he wants to share what he can, with his goal of being bound to you, which means sharing these personal moments. For him, learning about you is so much easier with his status and age. Still, you can seldom learn about him in the same way, even more, as he can't fully spill his guts about his past at a moment's notice. However, he can think of this as an added benefit; manipulation, even if it's not the goal, is still emotional manipulation.

These times, there often are levels of manipulation about other places and people he puts in place. Different regions and gods aren't free from their past either, and Venti is known to share moments of these in his riddles. Aspects of how the lands have changed, how they have changed, but the imposing struggles carry through their lands. It's not really shit-talking them, nor a full-on slander campaign, but the language and words he uses are often dulled in favorability of what they could be. Similarly, he might often find ways to weave in things that could cause greater fear in you to manipulate you into thinking you are much too weak for the creatures that lurk there. While some parts you can chalk up to his story-telling nature and that by making it more dramatic, it sounds better, there often is a growing uneasiness about how vicious parts it could really be. More than countless times, there have been moments of your own danger, only saved by the grace of the wind and Venti nearby… In contrast, he speaks of Mondstadt and its people much more positively, and while he has some jealousy of those in his region you gain closeness with, he also tends to have a much more positive relationship with them, allowing those to be better tools to help in his love life than those in say Sumeru or Inazuma. He tends to maybe add in some more lighthearted jabs that can have an air of jealousy in them, even more if Venti feels you've been around them a lot recently, but in the way he talks, it often is more of playful bad-mouthing than down right insults.

As touched on, Venti's manipulation of you isn't always intended or done with negative goals. One side of this is again linked generally to how he speaks. Being this enigmatic person whose words are always wistful and hold more profound meaning, there is a natural draw to learn more. It's only made more of something that is hook when he doesn't often go around sharing this self-lore to someone so known but distant in Mondstadt to just anyone. It's almost like a balloon or bubble; the hints that are added build up little by little as time goes on without seeking out Venti for more until it pops. A droplet of information at a time until it consumes your mind, going back looking for more details to answers to the questions you'd had running in your mind for days. Soon enough, you are the one asking where the mysterious bard is to the townspeople, only cementing more in their minds the nature of your relationship being more than platonic. It also, again, just makes you feel special, a self-imposed superiority that you are the person who knows him best [which this ego can be inflated more if you know him as barbatos as well]. Venti knows these actions are manipulative in a sense, and again. At the same time, it doesn't truly harm anyone; it's still manipulation at its core in building this unique reliance on him.

And Venti's manipulation is ever present in the town and the people of Mondstadt. The key ways he uses these are to get more information about you and, as usual, get away with things. However, as briefly stated, Venti uses the wind and himself as a factor in starting rumors that there is naturally more to what is happening between you that can be exploited for later use. But back to the first point, Venti is able to once again use his 'charm' and way of speaking to easily coax others to give out more information about you. He literally likes things about your past, interests, personal relationships with others, likes, dislikes, and such through his friendly demeanor and guiding the conversations. And while he can easily track and monitor you through the wind, by talking to others around and having them tell him where you are, it helps set up a close alibi if you were to question him later. Essentially, in this case, the guards and townpeople become effective scapegoats for his stalking if needed. Furthermore, these questions end up helping intensify any rumors as the questions, over time, can become more and more romantic.

His manipulation does also be a benefit as he really is one with the people, if not distant in details. By having personal connections to groups like people in the Adventure's Guild and Knights of Favonius through people like Jean & Kaeya, they easily can be tools to help with his… well, propaganda. Even the temple with Rosaria. You ask about traveling and other nations to people in the Adventure's Guild, and they tend to often only share more gruesome or darker aspects of their stories. Of have plenty of tragedy by the time they reach the 'positive goal' that it's a natural persuasion to not want to often venture too far outside of Mondstadt. Or say you are one to leave; Venti could use points of manipulation he's built to have, say, Rosaria or Kaeya go with you, depending on where. The wind can always join you, but Venti isn't up and one to fully be able to run off from Mondstadt for long periods of time. If you plan to go on just a trip for travel, it's one thing for him to run off and join you, but freedom itself in Mondstadt is unique. It's not necessarily true freedom, and while he's awake with a purpose, he can't in his heart run from Mondstadt to travel with you. And while he'd be able to do anything in his power to persuade you to not leave, he's one to physically force it unless you're genuinely trying to run off for something dangerous. However, if someone else were to go. Friends of you and Venti… you'd have to come back, right? Kaeya can't leave his post forever, and it was him who accompanied you for this task, so it would be unfair to go on alone and not see him back… Yes, through others, you'd always be lured… guilted into returning home to him eventually.

Manipulation is also used here in more of a test; he does this often with people but imposes an idea or thing involving you. Those he wants to use in a way of getting close, he bluffs some lies out, and their reaction or steps they handle in regards usually is how he tests to see if they are reliable in what he needs. It's nothing extreme, but it's best to know if he can trust their feelings and opinions on you before letting you get too close. If they fail, well, a little bending of the truth to make it so neither of you wants to interact and never really hurt anyone.

This all helps build into how appearance tends to help. Not only for the general public but even for you, as his boyish charm and looks naturally tend to frame him as innocent. People are quick to brush off his questions even if they progressively get more concerned as 'puppy love' or that it's simply 'too cute' to see the young love from the bard. Many might even favor this as they see it as him likely being willing to turn a new leaf and grow into something worth settling down [i.e., get a job and place to live, though really, instead, it grows more into him crashing at your home and still playing song for whatever he can— money or alcohol]. His verbal actions are easily brushed off, but even the physical side of things, too. Pilfering is a great talent of his, but when caught with your items or breaking in when you're out, he tends to be pushed aside if he plays up his demeanor and lies. Scolded with warnings, sure, but scratching his head and sighing with a 'promise I won't do it again' tends to get everyone to roll their eyes and back off. As mentioned, his appearance can even present him as harmless to you; if someone brings it up, you might also awkwardly laugh and brush off the events. It's just Venti being Venti. He truly is primarily harmless, and he's stayed over so much at this point him breaking in was likely just a result of a habit of being in there…

And the limits of manipulation can be pushed if he so chooses. Call it divine intervention, more or less cause while he does so more with a dirty conscience, he can be driven as Barbatos to truly step in. Religious intervention. It seems weird when the Church of Favonius suddenly comes in contact with some old documents, ones with never seen details of an old love interest to their beloved god. The news and rumors sweep the nation, and even weirder, most of the details and notes recount someone… like you. Things seemed to get stranger, and from there, only more documents could be found of this exact figure appearing throughout history, like some sort of reincarnation. The fascination of it all quickly became the center of the topic, and with the likeness you bared in the story and aspects of appearance, you're status seemed to shoot up within the night. Not so much a holy figure but deemed with some strange uplighting in the way people spoke. That is, or how Barbatos ever seemed to come back to Mondstadt, you'd need to be there just like how the past reminisced. For those who do know, it weirdly only pushes you away from them if you ever seek help, that that story must be bound to fate, and that Venti can't be as much of a nuisance if you give it time. The problem is only dug in worse as Venti creates poems and ballads of the sort, claiming he actually had heard of these but never sought to share them until now. As the stories grow, you're pushed more and more to the church with the idea of gaining barbatos' favor and attention. Leaving… just became much more complex.

Dependence [reversed]

Dependence comes in a weird form, at least compared to others. While in general fashion, dependence typically is the idea that they want you to solely rely on them for everything, not only for power and love, it can even be with money, housing, or other necessities. While Venti likely would be much more dependent on him being really the main source of your love and affection, the rest… he doesn't care so much about. Power may be a little; he doesn't need or want you to depend on him for it, but it does give him a little ego boost when you have to or ask him. And too many other aspects of actual dependence go against aspects of his belief in freedom. Venti's course of manipulation never truly prohibits your own freedom; again, less you actively seek to do something he knows poses a threat; it just often forces you to rethink and become more hesitant in actions or thoughts.

As for other forms of dependence, well, Venti doesn't have them. He steals, only really eats apples, to your knowledge, and is homeless. It's quite pitiful in a humorous way. However, as you get closer and bond more with the bard-friendly nature, it is hard for you to let him live like this. Well, in certain ways, stealing alcohol or bribing others to give him some with songs you can't really stop unless you plan on going bankrupt. But more frequently, you invite him for meals and shelter him in your place. Even more frequently if the weather is bad or as winter approaches. Venti isn't manipulating you necessarily into these tasks, but dependence some with a factor of self-guilt. He's your friend, someone you've gotten close with, and with that, he's come to truly rely on you for these things. He was fine in the past, but to leave for who knows how long and let him fall back into such a life would make you a bad person. Right?

Logically, Venti knows he doesn't need to depend on you for these things as they don't have any real effect on his life, but it's so domestic. He gets access to all your items; you put time and love into meals, or even sharing what you purchased from Good Hunter fills him with warmth. On cold nights, he finds it easier to slip under your blankets and, even if it's fake, pretend to sleep like how couples would. Being a god comes with a lot of good but a lonely life, and after seeing so many, there comes a time when it's nice to indulge in it. Gluttony has always been a crime of his, it seems, such as with alcohol, but this also can't be that bad if no one is getting hurt. So just let him depend on you a little longer. At least until he can find out some solution before he sleeps again.

Self Harm

Similar to dependency on basic things, one form of manipulation that Venti doesn't do on purpose but knows that there still is a benefit to his actions is his indulgence in drinking. While it takes a lot for him to truly get drunk, as noted, he does like to play it up for you, and it's not uncommon for you to have to take care of him or come help him. In all sense, Venti, while not necessarily drunk, is an alcoholic, and to a detriment, it is a form of self-harm. Through learning more and hearing the tales and songs of his past, it's apparent the wounds run deep, and Venti's only way he knows to deal with them is through drinking in an attempt to numb or forget. The reality of knowing this is hard; you see it with others you've likely gained closeness with and how drinking has affected the lives of so many.

This leads to two outcomes: this, again, guilt that breeds when thinking of leaving. The connection Venti has formed is tangible with how deep it is to you, even if you don't reciprocate in that way. That's if you were to leave, would things only get worse with his drinking problem? Unlikely, he would died from drinking, but it's more than just drinking; it's the mental state of him in that position and how the loss of more people would rip the wound open even more. Furthering, if you had actually spent time talking about his past and working to unpack and find better ways to cope with the trauma outside of alcoholism, leaving would be a dick move and revert all that progress no matter how you explained it. How much could you're conscious take knowing this? How far could you make it without the guilt of him back home as the stories of his past cloud your mind? The wind tickling your skin and almost like a whisper reminding you of it. It's one thing to share a drink or two with the bard and have a fun night in the tavern, listening to his songs and dancing. It's another to picture him alone under a tree, empty bottles scattered from stealing from him alone, reminiscing about his lost friend and the imagery of war. The wind gets colder, licking the back of your neck, and the guilt is painful, ready to burst out your chest for even thinking of it. Some wounds you cannot heal, but the idea of making them worst or abandoning the person who's come to need you most is mentally crippling.

General obsessiveness

Venti doesn't necessarily read as obsessive. Not outwardly, at least, though it's easy to blame his charm for that. Okay… well, maybe not charm, but within his manipulative nature and looks, his actions and questions regarding you don't play as obsessive to those who listen. It's unlike many others who you can just look at them and feel in your bone there is something off, or in how they speak, they care just a little too hard. His sharp tongue and trick of words allow people to very easily give up information without thoroughly having them aware they have, making his tendencies go far under the general public's radar still. And for those who do somewhat witness it, he doesn't mind playing up his role a little more. Just a young, helpless bard looking to woo someone. It isn't a crime, right?

The mask he wears holds many layers. The bard, the god, the lost wind. Not many will ever get a look at what really goes on and what is an exaggeration. Or under exaggeration when it comes to you. In most cases, Venti stretches his stories up, his words riddled and larger than life that people have to dim down to work out the true meaning. So when he sells his obsessive love as much less, people are quick to brush it off or dim it down further to avoid those actual layers of emotions being peeled forward.

A chunk of this also extends to the shame and questions it brings out of freedom. Venti has never tried to take it away in a solid way, but is it true freedom to either of you when you fill so much of his thoughts that you can't really do anything without him? It is the thought that replays and replays of you and him doing things; it's the obsessive nature of having to know where you are, who you're with, and what you're doing. Are you safe? Are you planning on leaving? Should he come to find you just to be sure?

What about the images. The visions he remembers from the wars, from the people he's lost, and that truly, at any time, perhaps something will happen, and you'll be next. The flashes of violence and fear that only make the goal of getting his next drink to numb them go away— or you. The sight of you, the smell of you. Having you hold him and remind him that the past is gone.

You'd be able to see it, maybe not the full extent, but you've come to know the bard enough to tell when the cogs in his mind are turning and the way he tries to drown out aspects of himself. It's hard to tell what he's thinking, but you know some of it is tied to the past as he holds the stolen wine in one hand and grips you so tightly with the other as you try to stumble back to your home and out of sight. You can tell something is off when he's snooping through your things early in the morning as you're just waking up and when he's clearly been inside your place while you were out with a friend. Or that he's been leaving more and more questionable lyrics? No, less like poems or lyrics but ramblings about love and fear and what can only be aspects of you on the counter as he runs around god knows where. It's worrying. It's uncomfortable to an extent, but not enough or in a way that you can just cut him off. Kick him out. Maybe just talking or setting a little break, but the pressure in your chest and bile in your throat at the thought of cutting contact brings you to a sobbing mess each time.

But, what does keep him from being fully obsessive is that Venti still has things to do. Freedom of Mondstadt and giving up his title as the god doesn't mean he's abandoned his role truly, and if he's awake, that means between drinking, being with friends, telling stories, and everything about you, there is something he has to do. He still is out fulfilling a duty no one, but he knows of, and really, part of that seems more scary than anything he's done to you. You know he'd never hurt you; it's not a fear of that, but as Venti opens up more to you, the parts he still keeps hidden remind you that this is only a fraction of what you know. Guess it's good that you still have some time and space to yourself, but as obsessive as he is in his thoughts and other flaws, he can dial it back if needed for a short amount of time. At least from your perspective.

Wrong idea; type 2

In a sense, Venti is give an inch; he'll take a mile. Like a stray cat. You feed him once he keeps coming back for more. One thing is that this wrong idea can start more slowly, but the second you mess up and do something more romantically affectionate, it instantly becomes much more intense in the progression of what he's willing to take or do.

As mentioned, for anything to start, you need to be at least on a friendship level basis with Venti, and a sorta higher level of one. Nothing extreme, but the type of friends who do spend a considerable amount of time together and, for example, willing to open your house to him to stay in occasionally. Not even in a 'stay in the same bed' type way, but he knows aspects of your personal life, and to a level, you learn more of his 'Venti' side for any of his traits to really start manifest. However, it is already very easy to set off more and delve into the realm of leading him into the wrong idea territory.

Some ideas of how this might be are such as gaining more physical contact. While the intent is friendly, Venti is from a different time, and being touchy already seems less common than you already have a 'flirty' aptitude. Grabbing his arm or hanging off of him when sober makes his heart flutter that there could be more. Certain gifts, flowers, or making uniquely special foods just for him. Not just any meal, that's normal, but if you were to make something sweet with apples that wasn't a typical dish, it leads his heart to beat just a little harder. Or that one time when he did stay over and you fell asleep holding onto him rather than the usual routine of wandering off to your own spot after putting a drunk Venti 'to sleep.' You must have been exhausted… but this is his first time really getting to see you up close.

You must be doing all this with some… ulterior motive. Sure, he's heard of courting; he's older than people think and knows more of the ins and outs of things. People treat him like someone far more innocent by these looks— not just with drinking. And yeah, it comes in handy sometimes, but not when people talk down to him about this. At first, there was some apprehension. Teyvat was in a dangerous time, and as carefree as he plays himself up, he's always guarded about his next move.

Obsessiveness starts more simple. His questions are more of curiosity about many things, and what is better than to trick it out of people and you. Sure, he knows most basic things of your life, but that couldn't mean you aren't linked to more questionable things and had figured out he was Barbatos, either. He comes off a nosey at best. When digging to see if you'd ever been caught doing 'bad things' most inform sure— but in the sense you had been a kid and teen once. You'd easily gotten into trouble more than a few times but never was it for anything imminent or serious. He digs more into the lineage of your family and the other people you associate with. Nothing strange… fine, but perhaps a different route. He remembers some old common courting techniques, and he's seen some of them in this era, too. He's not blind to it, but as he shares more of the details, the more people tell the 'young' bard. It's probably a hint that he should reciprocate. I mean, he already hangs off of you like a hangover anyway. It's surprising he isn't already attached at your hip with how much you both sort of rely on each other. Although you tend to treat him more as a companion than him, he depends on you like a leech.

And the switch flips.

In certain aspects, if you did have some sort of crush, it likely would melt away with how quick his obsessively wrong idea notion takes over. What was harmless flirting testing the waters is instantly blown into a large scale. Even if you didn't like him in that way and other signs were one of platonic closeness or accidents, it doesn't seem to make a difference. His touchiness is insatiable, and the amount of time he starts demanding you spend with him is much more intense. If you try to brush him off, his poutiness damps the air, and things just an uneasy tingle. You find him trying to make all sorts of snacks and now haggling not just for drinks but for gifts. Every story he tells, every song he sings, and every poem has some romantic undertones that, paired with former questions and actions, people know it is about you. And the stalking doesn't help.

Venti's turning point makes him feel like there is more and that there could be more. He's not fully delusional. There are aspects of a lucid point that you're pulling away, but that just means he needs to try harder, right? He's seen so many relationships go like that. If you stop trying, if you let them pull away, that's really how you lose them. It's obvious how much time he puts into this, how much he thinks about how to move forward, and how he can use things like his skill sets of manipulation to keep you bound to him [not literally but in a figurative state]. However, it is only time before you get worn down from trying to fight and redirect… adapting does become just so much easier. Conversations, trying to explain, just don't seem to reach him. Lucid and all, you can't understand him or his goals anymore, and even when he does calm down back into a slight breeze, the second you give him a bit of that former closeness back, it picks back into a blustery.

Stalking

While Venti's stalking habits have mostly been pointed out, there is one other big thing that needs to be recognized. Sure, in Mondstadt and the borders of other regions, he often can find himself about to sneak away and physically follow you around for extended periods of time [days, weeks, etc.]; what happens if you leave. Of course, Venti can easily manipulate others to go with you as a safety net and use it to get you back home, but things are rough when you're gone. Luckily, or to your dismay, you aren't ever really alone as the wind follows you. No matter how far you go, how pleasant the weather is, or how rough the wind is a constant companion following in your wake. It's often a nice breeze, though it picks up a significant amount if you're nearing danger or in danger. Though a strange pattern of it picks up when you spend a little too long talking with locals…

Yes, the wind itself can't do much, but its following reminds you of your faithful companion back home, the one you'll have to eventually return to. And while 'freedom' is given, it's never truly 'free' as the wind follows far and wide until you come back to your love.

Final [unique]

Where final comes in is related more to Venti's 'sleep.' From the context, it seems Venti has less control over when he sleeps and for how long. It's not that he chooses to abandon his land in the time. It's that he cannot fight when he goes into his slumbering state. For hundreds of years, and the times he wakes up are only that when there is something of great importance. This wouldn't be much of a problem before you— Mondstadt was given their freedom, and it was just how it was. He awoke, he came, he helped, and he left; nothing more or less.

However, he had been awake for longer than usual. There was something, even outside of you, that had brewing. Something deeply important kept him awake, even if he didn't know what. And he established a life. A true life this time, with friends in the taverns and everyday 'enemies' with his habits. He found a 'job' and a 'home' within his city as one of the people. And he fell in love. It's one thing to become intrinsically a part of an environment, and even if you don't feel the same way, have that connection knowing any moment it could be lost. To go back into a long-standing sleep with every person, even facet of that life is potentially gone when you are to wake up again. To lose that loved one to time.

Venti has lost so much, each person he's established a bond with passing or having to move on to more incredible things. When he awakes, everything is different; every person is mostly a new face, with few exceptions of those only being a few like him. Is it wrong for love to be so fragile when he knows the change of fate of it being lost is greater than the reward? That if he were to fall asleep, you would easily be able to move on. Find someone new, forget about him, or at least be nothing more than a distant memory. He knows other types of love can be platonic, that the affection you give to the city kids isn't the same, or the way you play with the cats as he watches from a distance. He knows that when he sees the couples in Mondstadt, he's supposed to be happy for them, and imagine if it was you two rather than have the breeze pick up ruining their outing. That he shouldn't be this jealous or bitter; it's unsuiting of his persona, but how else are you supposed to know when love is useless if not with you, the one person he could so quickly lose. When you're not around, this gets worse. Celestia, be damned if he were to fall asleep without at least getting to see you one more time.

This acknowledgment does considerably bring out more of his obsessive nature, almost like paranoia, but in a way that no one can quite place. That he needs to have knowledge of where you are and how long you've been gone, or that he needs to be with you to make up for the time. The obsession leaks into you're time together; since he doesn't need sleep, he'll just lay there watching you. Hands sometimes ghost your face as he pulls you close, worrying about if he can't save you if he were to suddenly fall back asleep tomorrow and never see you again. It's the way sometimes he grips your arm a little too tightly and breathes in too deeply when hugging. That he needs to find a solution to keep you immortal so if he does sleep, you'll still be there when he awakes, or even better, you can sleep with him [and awake] at the same time. You'd never have to be alone, he'd never have to be alone. And sure, it's a stretch, but it's not a loss of freedom because once awake, you can still go anywhere you want together, and even with this idea, you still have full mental awareness and control over your mind.

General Delusional [unique]

Venti isn't delusional. His perceptiveness to things around him and his need to protect himself, plus his lifetime, has made him more or less hyperaware of things and life around him. He hears the prayers of people and the lives of others, and being lucid/logical is simply a must for that of a god. But he hears the prays, he hears the others speak, and he yearns in a sense to be able to have the luxury of being delusional. Of just being able to let everything go and pretend things are good or that you like him back in that way. It sounds nice. Easy. To be able to imagine your life together as some fantasy story, he's the knight who'd come and save you and live happily ever after.

Scratch that. barbatos isn't delusional, but Venti can be. The mask, the person he's playing can be. He isn't just a storywriter; he's a storyteller. An actor, a character of his identity. So no, deep down, he knows the truth; he's extremely aware of that, but why not just play the part. Let him play as if he was lost in those delusions and that whatever it is can be that way. When you're cooking dinner for each other, Venti knows you're just making a meal as always, but why not play it up. That you're coupled and that this is making a meal together as a such— it was a little weird when he came over to help, but you didn't question it. At least he was doing something. But meal times together when he would help progressed weirdly. Putting his arms around you as you try to cut things, holding out utensils for you to try things on. It got very strange the one time when baking, he leaned over and licked a crumb off your face. You didn't bake for a while after that.

Or going out. What once was normal progressed into him inching closer and closer, then hands briefly touching. You didn't think much. It's the bard unless your Diluc. He's been pretty much harmless around the city. You think. So what if he was one to try to hold hands or brush arms that just matched his bubbly personality. Though the linking of arms and leaning into when waking, staring into your eyes with such affection did change things a lot.

It's nothing more than a role, or sort of game to Venti. The delusion is there, but it is more like oil sitting on top of water. He can turn it off at any moment, but where is the fun in that when everything in his life is so serious. With you, it's easier to just pretend. At least he still has all the control and lucidity of the problems when needed.

Projection

This has been touched on already, but to relate it back, Venti isn't so much delusional in the sense he believes it's real but that if he projects the message hard enough through stories, through songs, and to the people of Teyvat that you're together then in some way, that will be true. The projection of his words he knows are false, and he knows in some way, even if it isn't true, that if a story is spread enough, people take it as fact. And if everyone takes it as fact, then it's just easier for you to accept it as well. He really doesn't have to do anything to force you. It's not taking away anything. It's just altering it so that way things work out in his favor. Much like the general sense, it pairs as well. If he tells himself it's true, perhaps he can force that delusion to cloud the lucidity he feels about all of it. It's almost like in a state of being drunk, where you know what's going on to a certain level, but it's foggy. It's rose-tinted enough that if everyone thinks it, he can, too.

This projection is only made worse if he gets involved as Barbatos. It changes things from just the slightly weird couple who, honestly, the people of Mondstadt can't really explain how they ended up that way. They remember bits of it, but it seems like someone through someone, though some random grandma just mentioned you were taken, and everyone ran with it. But if the church were to find the falsified relics and stories, then there just is nothing you can do. Now, it's not only Venti trying to project something there but the whole church following, believing that you are some saint and by having you married? Honestly, you aren't really sure what all this goal is to have you 'connected to Barbatos' even means, but whatever it is… it doesn't sound good. The expectations of you are doubled, and the projection of you being more than human is suffocating. But it's only made worse when Venti comes forward as Barbatos to you, saying you should just play the part. Stay with the church as some saint and with him. You'll still have a life of freedom outside of it, just with some more expectations about how you interact with others. You'd be bound by the marriage of some sort, and he'd find a way to make it eternal. It doesn't sound too bad, right? Freedom isn't truly free, but it never has been. It's an elusive concept, something subjective, but if you still have the right to enjoy your life and the good of being such, then it should be okay. You can still leave the church figuratively and travel, arguing it's on some journey for something. You aren't restricted in how you speak or think, but things like infidelity and how you speak of love need to be more kind. Yet you'd live a life of peace, one of never needing to be allowed and have the blessing of a god in your favor.

If not, think of the projection people will have if you say no. If you try to run away, you lose everything. That would be the true loss of freedom. The loss of your friends, your loved ones. Your home. Venti projects this idea of love and what love should be for you two, not between you and him necessarily, but to everyone else, making it all the more terrifying at the consequences when he finally does. Not if, but when.

Monopoly

This is where things get rough because Venti is possessive in a way that can't be controlled. He feels it settling in his chest when he spends too long talking to the shopkeeper or giggling a little too hard at a friend's joke. He hates it when you work and when you dedicate your time to the kittens outside The Cat's Tail. He whines when you have to leave in the morning and when you turn up to Angel Share just a little too late, begging to know who you are with. It hurts him. He can't explain it in the way it crushes his soul, seeing you give your time to others, your energy, and your care. It pains him so deeply to see you run yourself thin for the world around you, for those who could never understand you like he does.

Venti knows it would be easy to whisk you away. To use his godly powers to keep you safe, to keep your attention and love only on him. How things would be so much better for you, for each other, if you could just monopolize your time for him and you and no one else. The idea weighs on him like a pile of bricks. He knows it's wrong; he knows it goes against everything he stands for. And call him childish, but he can't help how he feels.

It's true he never really acts on it. Clinging onto you and carping over it, sure, the way he tugs slightly on your arm after you keep talking to the passerby you bumped into, an old friend, ready to drag you off to somewhere in Mondstadt, you can be alone. How he holds on just a little too tight when you talk about events at work and the people you chatted with, quickly wanting to move to a more interpersonal topic.

Venti never really monopolizes you or your relationships, but his bratty and more childish act really is brought out more with you around. You still get the socialization and ability to be around whoever, but it always needs to be rightfully compensated with some alone time with the god as well, so pick your battles sparingly and just go with him when his fuse starts to burn out.

Bizarre Seeking [unique]

Tying back to his sleep issue, the case of bizarreness only relies so much on how far he's willing to push to keep you immortal, either through godhood or other means. It's surprising he'd even consider it; his testament for Celestia is apparent in conversations, and the path to godhood is not seen in a much higher light based on conversations. But Venti knows sacrifices need to be made to get what you want, and if that means the pursuit of godhood or immorality to not lose any more of his loved one, then that's a sacrifice to be made.

Because of this, Venti ends up pushing you into countless more and more weird scenarios. You end up visiting a certain alchemist more, not really ever knowing the reasons why, and stranger things of yours seem to be going missing. What is that strange bruise on your arm, and why does this one piece of hair seem slightly shorter than the rest? You also swore that Caramel Pinecone tasted weird last time, but even when you ordered the Love Poem instead, it was still off…

The limits of Venti's morality are very much pushed with the goal of finding a way to extend your life more permanently, and while the actions he takes are questionable, they aren't anything he would do less deemed necessary. Beyond that, once he finds the key to unlock it, his bizarre-seeking tendencies end up dying down or stopping altogether.

Also, while he considers and will try to push for a Celestia ascension if push comes to shove, the ability to actually achieve godhood this way is much more complicated and dangerous. Something he might keep trying for, but this way is much less likely to succeed, and he knows this, which is why other bizarre tendencies take priority.

General protectiveness

Overall, protectiveness is a standard feat. Venti doesn't want you to get hurt and will do nearly anything to prevent it, hence a considerable factor of his stalking outside of walls of the city or towns. Even with others, if he thinks they pose some physical threat, Venti has little fear of stepping between you and 'the threat.' It's not so much a protective coating or an extreme case where he needs to check everything you do, touch, eat, drink, or interact with. Still, there is a natural sense of him wanting to protect you and watch over you to make sure that nothing can gravely hurt you. This mirrors why the wind follows you if you travel and picks up to warn you and redirect you away from dangers, a protective aura of Venti that trails after you. It's not even a doubt that you can't, but the inherent need to make sure you make it back in one piece.

There is, again, only one primary reason Venti will use full force to intervene, and this is if he knows you are purposefully trying to run off somewhere that will put you in danger for any reason. Often downplaying his strength of wind, the storm, if needed, will border Mondstadt making it. Hence, nothing gets in or out until you agree to drop it, tearing nearly everything that comes in contact with the barrier if you don't agree to listen to him first and think of a genuine plan. The wind sees all, and while terraforming isn't much on his bucket list anymore, Barbatos has no fear of proving his worth and power if in the name of love and protection. Even if it hurts you to know whatever your goal is foiled, if it's the one-stop against your freedom, there are some things not worth being risked.

Lowest Stats

General [none]

The one trait Venti inherently lacks is sadism. Nothing he does to you or others is derived from the pleasure of hurting or seeing others hurt. And while those such as the abyss creatures for fatui foot soldiers are at the whims of his fighting, it's not done with the goal or satisfaction of a battle but rather a necessity for 'his' people and you.

It's apparent that actions that long-term hurt you or have serious effects, both mental and physical, that fundamentally change you aren't truly a goal. Yeah, the immortality would literally change you, but not with the goal of making you conform or transform into a new mental mindset. At least not right away, as he knows that a long life naturally changes people, but there never is a purpose to rid you of traits. To tie you down and break you until you love him the way he loves you.

Freedom, as touched on, is never truly free. Not of people, not of actions, or even of mindsets. But is it that Venti wants you to be you; be the self you choose to be and the freedom that comes with that, even if aspects of it hurt him. It's why if he has to let you go to Sumeru for a festival he knows wouldn't be possible for him to also attend, he lets you know you'll come back to him without the burden of being changed or conformed to have to come back. It's why, in every case, Venti does whatever is in his power to keep you from being genuinely hurt, even if he can't always fulfill that promise. It's why, despite everything, he can't hurt the people who create the fires of jealousy in his core being.

Venti has an awareness that many of his actions are immoral and that he has dirtied his hands in the past just as much. he knows of the guilt you struggle with, and then he is using his skills to manipulate and play everyone like a fiddle, but in the eyes of a god and one who believes in freedom, it is not in his role to harm anyone in the light of you. It's a turning point he could never come back from if he were to directly hurt you or anyone else with the goal of keeping you with him, and it would be a dishonor to everything he was created from. A stain on the nameless bard he honors so deeply, so while the envelope of what is okay is pushed every day with his other actions, there is never once a hand that is laid on you for the sake of 'love' from Bardatos.

──⭒─⭑─⭒────⭒─⭑─⭒──

Statistic diagram; Venti [Barbatos]

#leaper.analysis #yandere #yandere writing #yandere x reader #yandere headcanons #yandere scenarios #yandere genshin #yandere genshin headcanons #yandere genshin impact #yandere venti #genshin.leaps #genshin x reader #venti x reader #tw: yandere #tw: manipulation #tw: alcohol #tw: stalking #tw: religious themes

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arthurtaylorlester · 7 months

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malevolent season 4 was... something, that's for sure

i want to preface this by saying i LOVE malevolent as a show and this is no means an attack on the creator or anything like that, i don't think i'll ever stop listening halfway, no matter how i feel about it. i'm not saying season 4 is all bad either.

it is a deviation for malevolent, though i found it VERY well written up until part 31 (and part 31 is my favourite malevolent episode ever)

s4 started off really strong for me, part 29 set the tone really well, much lighter after s3's emotional lows. the butcher was an interesting enough new villain to put yarson aside for now. part 30 had some charming moments, but the real star of the early season was part 31, a truly incredibly written and directed look into arthur's psychology. it truly gave us everything, from lore to highly comedic moments (to me)(no because why was arthur dreaming of waking up next to a shirtless man who tried to kill him)

parts 32 through 34 i'm not sure about, but i can write them off as awkward mid season points. part 34 was an interesting shift in perspective, but here is where my doubt's about the season's villains started rising

but the oscar & scratch arcs.... guys i'm gonna be honest, i might be oscar's #1 hater

scratch and oscar in this season were functionally useless filler. it's not unusual for arthur and john get sidetracked during their missions, but it usually ends up leading them right where they need to be by the season finale. this felt like a parenthesis that killed any tension created by the butcher.

this season had, quite unnecessarily, 3 antagonists. now this wouldn't be a terrible idea, had they been established before. but no. for some reason it was chosen to leave the only villain we could genuinely be afraid of alone, in favour of introducing not one but two antagonists yet to be established. neither because of this have the adequate fear factor (the butcher is better about this) and both get the most abysmal ends i could've imagines. what do you mean scratch is just gone like that after causing some emotional conflict with his deal. what do you mean the butcher was KOed by the fucking priest with a bedpan? what? that's it? you expect me to be scared or even care about the butcher now?

speaking of the priest. i want to like oscar i really do but. he's a terribly written character. we get to know him while arthur is teaching john intimidation tactics so out of gate our initial impression of him is as someone meek. and then in part 36 after "sorting out" the butcher, oscar just dumps out his trauma point blank to someone he's spoken to a handful of times in the past 3? 4? days.

malevolent in general has a bit of an exposition problem, but it usually works out if it's john expositing because. that's literally all he can do. but when a character with more agency do it, it makes them flat. oscar didn't have to tell us all that, he didn't have a reason. arthur confessing to 7 murders isn't a prompt to make himself vulnerable like that. i did not start caring for him, just because he had a tragic backstory. that's... not how you get someone to care about a character. oscar could be defined as a static character, and while it's not too unusual for a static character to be the focal point of an arc, i don't think it works the way most authors think it does.

also the worms in the farm only happened because of him messing with the stove so like. that's not helping his case.

the completely unnecessary farm arc concluded, we return oscar to the hospital, with arthur caving very quickly to john's demands if he truly cared about oscar so much. and so, a single episode before the finale, we get properly acquainted our main ally for the showdown. a choice definitely, but i feel like this one worked out pretty well considering noel had time to simmer before we got know of his past + he had interesting conflict with john and arthur.

and then there's the big one, the thing that appalls me entirely. leaving larson and yellow, the main villains of the finale COMPLETELY alone until the very end. why? why would you choose to not use them earlier? we spent so much time away from larson, so we weren't really as scared of him as we were at the end of part 28 (i literally was listening to the last 15 minutes of this ep on my toes because i thought he might do something) and we had had no CHANCE to even fear yellow, since we knew nothing of his power?

and what, the butcher is on our side now because noel granted his release? just like that? i know he's a contract killer but arthur insulted him to his face, he can believe they understand each other but did he feel no anger?

the finale did well, considering the context it was given to work with, though i did not understand the point of the memory thing... that didn't go anywhere? because not arthur nor noel actually lost anything. we don't know what the box was for, we only know some guy wrote "the birth of my son" on slip of paper and put it in. arthur assumed it was a memory, when it just as well could've been a literal offering, arthur assumed it would involve losing said memory, and they assumed it was related. initially i thought it would only go through if the ritual took place, which, it didn't. but reading back here is no further clarification on it. hold your angst horses, blindfaith enjoyers

i feel like john physically manifesting, if now an established power of his, was very cheap. unless it was a one-off, or some sort of power up, it just literally took away the main premise of the show. an all-powerful god rendered powerless by being stuck in some guy's mind and being forced to confront the troubles of someone infinitesimal to him. if you let him astral project and save people, then what's the point?

but i do actually think it was a one-off, so we'll see how it goes

simply put, john saving arthur when he jumped in s3 had more impact than this because he did it with a single, human, hand. no magic.

it was pleasant to have kayne and his expected chaos back, jarring as always. john's deal was exactly what we all thought it was going to be, maybe more about himself than arthur, but i don't think anyone can fault him for that.

one things though, and this questions may just be me not remembering, is arthur supposed to know that yellow is a separate entity from john when they realise larson has him in his head? because i remember arthur just assuming that 'yellow' just had all of his memories returned in part 23, and therefore not knowing that he's a separate guy from john.

just in general, i feel like s4 had a LOT of good ideas that weren't given enough room to breathe and therefore weren't written very well that really weighed down my enjoyment of the season. that's not to say there weren't things i liked. the emotional moments hit just as hard, like reconciling with daniel, the comedy was on point (genuinely this season was so funny) and even the most out of pocket thing arthur has ever said, calling john a child, no matter how much discourse it caused, was actually sort of in character for him? i mean arthur is an asshole so like i get why his immediate reaction to his severely emotionally unintelligent friend being possessive is babying him. they're awful people. they deserve each other. it made somewhat sense in retrospect.

all this to say, while i didn't hate s4, i think it had a lot of writing issues, especially when comparing it to the other 3, and it could've been done WAYY better but hey we all have our moments.

i await anxiously intermezzo's public release and the rest of season 5 👀

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benis-chillin · 1 month

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IDW's Fang the Hunter and the failure of Neo-Classic Sonic

(In case you're stupid, this is an opinion piece made for discussion)

Greetings, boys and goyles. I'm Benis, otherwise known as Benis Chillin, Sonic lore enthusiast and fanfic writer. I say the latter part because I want people to know that I'm well aware that many of my criticisms are based in the fact that I'm a writer, and unlike most people, I try to run more by objective canon than my whims. I explain it more here.

And per those standards…The current state of Classic Sonic SUCKS.

Now, I am a Modern Sonic fan through and through. I LIKED the 4 main Classic games when I played through them, but Sonic Adventure was the one that truly hooked me in. The world established by that game, and the ones that followed, just have my interest more, and I would prefer things be made in service to THAT.

However, to the greater detriment of society, Sonic Generations happened, and Classic Sonic was reestablished as part of the brand after years of Modern Sonic being THE face of everything, with even collections of Classic games using Modern Sonic artwork. And with the environment of the internet in the 2010's, it's no surprise that they decided to let Classic be its own sort of "brand" with Sonic Mania(bleh)and Forces(less bleh).

But they had a fun spin on it: A split timeline.

youtube

As explained above, Classic Sonic was given his own little mini-continuity to run around in, which is actually a brilliant idea, from a brand perspective. Original Classic Sonic had the creative freedom to do whatever the heck he wanted to, since he was the main Sonic. However, new Classic material, or Neo-Classic material, as I shall now refer to it, if left in the main timeline, inherently has the “prequel” problem where things HAVE to have some kind of hook for it to really be worth having another branch of the brand available. I wouldn’t say EVERY brand has this problem, but even the most masterful uses of that format have to deal with the fact that the future is predetermined, and Neo-Classic Sonic material just does not have the leg room to work around that problem.

So, split the timeline, and just do whatever with it. It’s an AU, go nuts! Let a part of the brand reset and grow in a different way for that audience who isn’t into that Modern stuff!

And we had a promising enough start with the 30th anniversary comics! Full of interesting returns that you didn’t really see in the mainline books. Heck, we got an actual look at the design of Metal Knuckles, that was pretty rad!

Bark, Bean, and Fang also had an appearance that made their old Archie team somewhat canon, after they only appeared as illusions in Mania. Sure, these characters were neat in the Archie comics, but getting a proper form of that in a continuity free of that Satam Stank was nice. This particular comic being a separate thing from my main love, while not diving into the weird stuff that would turn me off from it, inherently made the comic more interesting, even though I’m not much of a Classic Sonic fan.

And so this sentiment continued through the next specials, but something else began to shift on Sega’s side. The dumbassery of single timeline was stated to be the new status quo, and they started acting as such with new Sonic material.

Sonic Superstars came out, too, and my feelings on that are known. Now, after his appearance in the comics had been a bit of a treat, even if you didn't like him, Fang was in an official Sonic game again, with 3D renders to boot!

...But he was still the same jackass with barely any personality that he was before. Because Superstars was TRYING to be like 3&K with its storytelling, while lacking basically every element that made 3&K's storytelling work. Combine the lackluster story and music, both of which were caused by the idea of it being a Neo-Classic game, with the fact that the graphics were 3D, and now the question is being raised of, "Why wasn't this just a Modern Sonic game?"

Cause from an outsider's perspective, it being a Neo-Classic game only served to hold it back in a ton of ways!

For example, the character of Trip. She seems well liked in the Sonic fanbase, but Sega's kinda funky with how they handle characters being both Classic and Modern. Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman, and Metal Sonic seem to be allowed to exist in both parts of the brand, but that's it.

Knuckles Chaotix is said to be canon, but the Classic Chaotix are unlikely to appear anytime soon since Sonic Heroes soft-rebooted them. Mecha Sonic was allowed to appear in the Modern "Scrapnik Island" mini-series, but I suspect it's seen by Sega as a "modern reboot" rather than a character being allowed to co-exist between the two brands again. Heck, they didn't even have the guts to show the Classic versions of the characters during the flashbacks, even though logically, they were still referencing 3&K.

So will Trip be allowed to appear in any meaningful way in the future? Probably not, the way things have been going.

So, if all Classic characters can only appear in Neo-Classic material, then the Neo-Classic material has to be as good as it can be, right?

Well, that's where the Fang mini comes in.

Written by Ian Flynn, who has very much been showing how utterly stretched he is across so many Sonic projects lately(even if I would still regard him as a fairly decent writer, just...Has his limits), the Fang mini is the epitome of BORING!

The basic story is that Fang and his gang are seeking out, "The eighth Chaos Emerald," visit a few people who tell him it doesn't exist, and then Eggman sends him to deal with the Hardboiled Heavies going rogue.

Along the way, Fang is just randomly a dick to his friends, and they end up abandoning his ass at the end because this comic is, for some reason, a direct prequel to Sonic Superstars, and we apparently needed an explanation of why they weren't there?

If my summary didn't sound that bad to you, it's because you don't have to go through the grueling wait that being an IDW Sonic fan entails.

Seriously, the wait between issues of IDW Sonic has become a real problem the past few years. Ever since the Metal Virus ended, the main book has had a massive problem with pacing.

And sure, there are arcs and ideas I like there, I AM a fan, but not a lot HAPPENS in each issue compared to earlier in the book's run. Even re-reading them, the pace is oddly slow for a book about a fast character, and the issue especially persists here...On top of the main book being paused for a bit so THIS shit could come out.

(Current arc is doing better, though, so hope they keep that up)

Issues 1&2 are wasted with Fang harassing Sonic and Knuckles for a bit that, guess what? Goes nowhere! And then we briefly divert to Fang and co. in a watery old Eggbase so Eggman can capture them and actually get the plot going…3 issues into a 4-issue mini! Then, we finally get to the main event, where all will be revealed! And…

It's the Warp Topaz from the main book. The Hardboiled Heavies found it in a cave, where nobody ELSE knew it was, so it can't be the source of the 8th Chaos Emerald rumors.

Like I told ya, that went NOWHERE!

So they fight the bland-as-shit Heavies, Fang adds the Warp Topaz to his hover bike thing, and the airship is wrecked, leaving Sonic and Tails to have no idea what just happened, their involvement being a complete wash.

And our story ends with Bark and Bean rocketing off in little hovercars that just raise the question of why they didn't use those when Fang threatened to kick them off in Issue 2, since he has no say in whether or not they launch.

I actually managed to ask Ian Flynn about this on the Bumblekast, and this was his response:

youtube

Worth noting that the final issue has an additional editor that didn't work on the previous issues. Not saying EVERYONE'S blameless in this, but if I had to choose a weak point…

This mini-series encapsulates every little issue the Neo-Classic line has had since they officially eschewed split timeline.

It feels the need to go out of its way to explain shit that doesn’t matter, like where Bark and Bean were during Superstars, Fang having the Warp Topaz, but not using it during Superstars creates a gaping plot hole that will not wash away, and it not going away at the end brings up a lot of timeline issues that I can only hope that Knuckles special resolves!

In fact, why didn’t HE get the mini!?

Even in his Classic state, Knuckles has a LOT more to carry a story with! From the secrets of his island, to the mysteries of his people(which Adventure and the Frontiers promo animation hinted at), to even just doing his own treasure hunts! Heck, you could even pin him against both Fang’s crew and the HBH, and you’ve got enough of a banger to hold 4 action-packed issues right there!

But no! Instead, we get a book that seems written to depend on the personalities of the protagonists…When said protagonists barely have any personality.

Like, let’s consider Team Chaotix from Sonic Heroes ALONE. Vector is the loud, bombastic leader with a love of music, and true detective skills, as showcased by him figuring out that their employer was Eggman on his own by Rail Canyon. Espio is the disciplined, if a bit full of himself, ninja, taking down the bad guys with stealth and precision, while also being somewhat melodramatic. And Charmy is the excitable ADHD kid of the group who may occasionally want to go off-track and play around in the giant casino area.

These characters are simple, yet so full of personality that you immediately like them(unless you’re a 2010’s YouTuber). THESE guys can hold a narrative.

By comparison, what do Fang’s gang have after 3 comic appearances and Sonic Superstars?

Fang is a hired goon who has goons, Bean is “funny” bomb man, and Bark is the silent strong guy with a soft spot.

That is really it.

And this was FINE back when they were still in “Sega forgot us” territory. Being obscure oddities that we would rarely get in stories actually did a lot of heavy lifting for their more limited personalities. Despite what the current writers seem to feel about such limits, judging by Silver and Blaze's current "vacations" in the main book, characters being rarer can actually endear you to them.

But now, these guys aren't really that rare. In fact, I’d say they’re about equal to Team Chaotix in terms of mass media exposure within the past 5 years, and they’re considerably lacking in comparison.

Hell, even compared to the characters created RECENTLY in IDW and the Modern games, they're pretty lackluster. Yet I'm supposed to care about these assholes just as much as those guys?

Which, really, is how ALL of the Neo-Classic media feels these days.

Look, I get that Neo-Classic Sonic media doesn’t want to step on the toes of Modern Sonic. I do. But I really think it needs a good shake-up.

Quit treating it like it’s this special thing, because it isn’t anymore. Find a more solid identity for this branch of Sonic if you want it to survive, cause THIS doesn’t cut it anymore.

AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TIMELINE SPLIT ESTABLISHED IN A MAINLINE GAME, DAMNIT! THERE’S A STORY IN UNDOING THAT! TELL IT, OR I WILL!

#sonic the hedgehog #idw sonic #sonic idw #sonic lore #classic sonic #fang the hunter #fang the sniper #restore the sonic neoclassic timeline #Youtube

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wickjump · 3 months

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I'M SORRY THIS ISNT ABT MTT + CREPIC POLY BUT OGNYKHMHMH I NEED TO ASK THIS DESPERATELY.

Would milkbone hang out w the dogs in UT like greater dog n doggo n stuff more often because yk milkbone............ Not to make him an animal or smth ofc,,,, ALSOALSOALSALSOSSOO. I WANNA ASK ON WHY MILKBONE WON'T ATTACK ASRIELS BUT THAT'S LORE WORTHY STUFF RIGHT THERE.

AN OC ASK?????? FOR ME????? I MUST BE DREAMING OH MY GOD. DO NOR APOLOGIZE THIS IS THE BEST THING TO EVER HAPPENTO ME. I AM SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW WORDS CANNOT DO IT JUSTICE OKAY!!!!!

milkbone would probably initially hang out with the more anthropomorphic members of the dog group, ie dogamy, dogaressa, and doggo rather than greater + lesser dog. he has an odd feeling when around greater and lesser dog but doesn’t look too deep into it. doggo, dogamy, and dogaressa are more. sapient? i guess? milkbone’s more sly than classic sans, the sort of person your more socially adapted friend would point out and say ‘don’t talk to him he’ll scam you out of 20 dollars and your left shoe’.

but he can relate to the hound patrol (is that what they’re called?) to an extent, even if he might distance himself at times out of discomfort. while he gets their love for certain things, there’s a sort of animal thing about them he feels off around. they like petting, they smoke dog treats, they bark and yip and do all sorts of dog things that he doesn’t do, and he doesn’t want to associate with something so… animal. this isn’t a dig at them, even if he mistakes his discomfort towards those things as discomfort towards them. before his au’s plot “went down” he didn’t mind hanging out with them, and probably cracked a lot of jokes about being an ‘honorary dog’ or something. he just doesn’t like being compared to a dog, or any sort of animal, now. dehumanization is my most favorite trope so he gets all of it.

as for why milkbone wont attack asriels, he was asriel’s caretaker for a while. the au they’re both from, undertrap, is still a work in progress, but ive established a familial bond with them. the general idea of undertrap is that monsters were viewed as less than human, kept as novelties and all that, and to escape it they went underground, where they lived happily for hundreds of years. however, humans eventually found them when looking for chara, who had gone missing. chara was angry about this because their intent was never to hurt their new family, blah blah, but most monsters were taken back to the surface against their will.

two of those monsters were asriel and sans, aka milkbone, who were both looking for their families whom they got separated from, as they managed to escape the humans. this is why milkbone doesn’t like being dehumanized—outside the general discomfort that comes from it, he was quite literally treated as an animal as every other monster was.

over time sans became a familial figure to asriel, an older brother of sorts. still working out the kinks, but so far i think that at the end of it they’d find asgore and then humans try to kill them all, sans steals part of asgore’s soul to keep himself alive whilst he dusts, blah blah. and then! memory loss! bro doesn’t know who he is or what he is! he just has brief snippets of memories and discomforts, and while he’s done dirty work for his clients before, an asriel is the one monster (outside of papyri) he feels an extreme discomfort doing any harm towards.

he is canonically a multiversal character due to this split second decision throwing his fate off. by all means he was supposed to die there, but he didn’t. and his code, not knowing what to do, basically threw him out of the au until someone else approached him and he got introduced to the multiverse.

this is what im thinking anyway, he’s still hugely in development,, fun fact though! his collar wasn’t a choice he made to have, it was given to him, but he couldn’t take it off at the time and now, since he doesn’t remember the reason he has it, still wears it under the assumption ‘past’ him had picked it out himself.

THANK YOU SO SO SO MUCH FOR GIVING ME AN EXCUSE TO TALK ABOUT HIM GAH. man if only we hadn’t established a multiversal status quo id love for him to have been popular in 2016 😔 unfortunately i was stupid and also eleven years old with unrestricted internet access, and not exactly an artist of sorts either. maybe ill write a long fic about him and get some people to think he’s cool. i mean undereats and post sans got popular, and i think tear and stitch are too but i might be biased cause i love them. i can do this

ANYWAY YEAH THANK YOU FOR THE ASK ANON IM GIVING YOU A LITTLE KISSY ON THE HEAD :333

#milkbone sans #undertrap sans #undertrap #undertrap au #utmv #undertale #undertale au #yaayyyyy #milkbone asks

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theycallmeazalea · 3 months

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My thoughts #5

Okay, so this is a rant about my opinion about the lmk community, especially the community in the west. This is pointing out the “little” problem I see in that side of the fandom, since I mostly seen more stuff about there than in the eastern fan base.

I wanna add that I am in fact NOT Chinese, however I do have Chinese folklore told through my parents due to one of them being into folklore of mainly Hindu and Buddhist folklore, but still knows some stories of other folklore outside of that.

So, I wanna point out how rather hypocritical the fandom in the west is, specifically about what’s right and what’s wrong there. It’s so weird for me personally about how they treat the characters, specifically the characters who are inspired by actual mythical figures in Chinese folklore like Redson/Redboy, Sun Wukong and etc.

1. thing is about what not to ship and what is okay to ship. I’m going to take Sun Wukong and Chang’e for example.

It’s already established in jttw (a Chinese Buddhist book) that Sun Wukong after the journey was ascended to Buddha hood, it’s obvious what a monk in Buddhism is not suppose to be in a relationship, or have any “mortal” connections in order to ascend to Nirvana (a transcendent state in which there is neither suffering, desire, nor sense of self, and the subject is released from the effects of karma and the cycle of death and rebirth.).

It’s already known that in multiple series of people’s own spin of jttw where Wukong had a love interest, kinda going against the whole “Nirvana” concept that happened to Wukong. The same goes with in Lego monkie kid, where Sun Wukong didn’t ascend to Buddha hood for plot reasons..

Now here comes Chang’e, Chang’e is the goddess of the mood who’s either married and or in love with Hou Yi. In some versions of her backstory, Chang’e was either in a healthy relationship or in a toxic relationship where by in the most popular versions of her story they split up. Where Chang’e ascended to the moon and Hou Yi lived his own mortal life till the end.

But where comes the complicated part, Chang’e in lmk specifically is never said to have a husband. But since Chang’e’s lore she does have a husband, it’s safely to assume that on lmk she also has one. But the info about their relationship in unknown and if her husband is alive or not.

So, in Lmk Sun Wukong didn’t ascend to Buddha hood (so he’s able to be in a relationship), Chang’e probably has a husband and their relationship is unknown. But where the problem comes is about the ships, the lmk community in the west is A-Okay with shipping Sun Wukong while doesn’t find it okay that some people ship Chang’e with someone else. Their only excuse is that Chang’e is married and forever bound to her Husband. This specific part ONLY applies to mythology, nor have I ever seen a part where it was said that Chang’e was forever bound to her husband (if there is proof of that, please do show me). But then the community is okay with shipping Sun Wukong, even though in the myths Wukong ascended to Buddha hood and the community just turned a blind eye towards it because they find the Sun Wukong ships cute.

WHERE’S THAT LOGIC? Why only apply to one SPECIFIC character and not to the OTHER one?! What? Did that “rule” grew legs and skedaddle off the face of the earth or something? Am I missing something? Or is it just because you don’t want a character to be shipped so you gatekeep them in the at most un-logical way?

Okay, another thing. This time I’m gonna be honest with this, Nezha and Redboy..

We all know how both characters are VERY similar, a bit too similar that people confuse the other for the other. Now, Redson and Nezha are both adults in the present of lmk. This is a sensitive topic amongst the fandom about Nezha, because someone accidentally spread misinformation about Nezha. And we all know what the topic was about.

Now anyways, Redboy in lmk is an adult, being around in his early 20’s. We physically saw how he aged, we saw his 2 forms. Adult and child form. And the lmk community agrees that Lmk Redson is an adult, even though In jttw Redboy is seen as a child. Not as any other age. Not adult, just portrayed as a child.

How there’s Nezha, also in his 20’s but obviously older than Redboy and even Sun Wukong. Same story with Nezha, he’s an adult in lmk but instead of only seeing as a child in myths, Nezha is seen as both a child as well as a young adult. Not only that, but Nezha appeared in Hindu and Buddhist mythology. Being named Nalakubara instead of Nezha/Nazha. But the fandom in the west (because of that misinformation) infantilize Nezha, saying he’s eternally a child, specifically a 12 year old.. And in all honest words, from my research and experiences never in my life have I ever heard a god having a specific age, as in I never heard how old they were in the present. Never in my life. I never heard ever about Nezha being 12. Did some reading on many sites and asked many people, I was never told he was 12. Only that Nezha is a youthful deity being at the age of toddler or young adult.

The only proof I saw in the fandom about this claim is somewhat, but easily countered with heaps of evidence that Nezha’s age in mythology is fluid. I wanna remind everyone that Nezha is over 3000+ years old in mortal years. Since he was born is the Shang dynasty it’s kinda simple math to realize what his mortal age range is. Because of how ancient he is, the info about him is scattered throughout the earth. Whereby it’s hard to know what’s true or false, so we depend on more modern interpretations of him. And on modern depictions, he’s both seen as a child to young adult. I remember a post where their evidence is the fact they were inspired by a so called “child god”, which is literally false because the god they were talking about was Maha Krishna and Nalakubara. First of all both figures grew up and had a family, and second just because Nezha was inspired by a part of Maha Krishna’s life doesn’t mean Nezha’s is forever a child because they were only inspired by that part of the story. Because by that logic Sun Wukong is also a child because he was inspired by Hanuman’s childhood.. like it doesn’t make ANY sense.

And I understand why so many people gatekeep Nezha because they don’t want Nezha to be shipped with a canon characters, but to spread misinformation makes you no different from others. If anything use REAL information why shipping Nezha with for example Sun Wukong is weird, because 1 they met when Nezha is a minor and Wukong was at that point an adult.

2. The fact that lmk is not a direct copy of jttw or any Chinese folklore.

The day when the lmk community FINALLY realize that lmk is not jttw is the day I can feel peace in my heart. I see so many people bickering about how “oh not to do that” or “not to do this” because of the fact a character was “a direct copy of this god”. Look, I know lmk is not fully finish so we depend on jttw and fsy about how the plot will go and how the characters back story is.

But to FULLY depend on jttw or fsy for lmk is pointless, lmk has its own timeline and spin of jttw. Which makes lmk already its own story and lore, doesn’t matter if it’s heavily influenced by jttw. It’s still its own plot. Just think that lmk is it’s own AU of jttw. So go comparing a character to their mythological counterpart, just to proof something is still useless. It’s like comparing a bowl of chocolate chip cookies with vanilla chip cookies and say that they’re the same flavor because of the fact they’re a cookie. That doesn’t make sense. Lmk god figures are VERY different from the actual mythological ones, sure their lore is kinda similar but really different. I mean look at Sun Wukong’s lore, it’s almost not the same with the jttw Sun Wukong.

This is all I have to say for now, I’ll probably post more about the troubles in the fandom somewhere in the future..

#lego monkie kid #lmk #monkie kid #the troubles of the lmk community #this is all my opinion #azalea’s thoughts

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corviiids · 3 months

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THANKS @kimdokjafan you are so kind and generous. ok im cashing in the first of three blank checks to talk about faith trust and pixie dust (most recent chatfic) because the last two directors commentaries were too serious so let's do a silly one.

some p5r spoilers, and this is mostly about sumire, and it's long again. do i need to keep disclaiming that these are long? you should know me by now.

i had this written for a while before i started formatting it because i wasn't really sure if i should post it? i feel like silly chatfic is something people go to for predominantly lighthearted nonsense so i was like, maybe there's too much plot and dramatic misunderstanding and i should just keep this one for myself. but then i was like well nothing matters and maybe someone will have fun with it. it's kind of terrible how much fully or mostly completed fic there is my docs that just doesn't see the light of day lol. write for yourself etc but i like sharing! too bad it comes with the mortifying ordeal etc. anyway that was a tangent

potato counter is a neopets game. there's no deep lore i just like neopets. i guess in this universe ryuji doesn't play neopets? or maybe he's just never played potato counter specifically. i also have a different fic where ryuji DOES play neopets. it's about neopets and ryuji and goro talking on neopets.

i think this might literally be the first time ive written sumi in a fic because i haven't actually written that much fic for royal, like, now that im looking, literally almost none? and none that had a group dynamic. so it was kind of fun to find her voice for the first time in a silly groupchat like this. i was worried people would find her exclamation marks annoying but i personally thought it was endearing so i added it in there.

every time i do a gag where a character corrects their own typo i have to code more stupid little bubbles to make it happen but i think it's worth it. all the effort that goes into making tgis look as much like a real chat as possible

this obviously doesnt take place in the canon p5/r universe, but im imagining sort of a postcanon sumi personality where she's more comfortable being herself and isn't borrowing kasumi's brand of confidence, but she's visibly a really anxious person without that kasumi veneer. i also think in this universe sumire is a fairly recent addition to the friend group, and while everyone likes her a lot and she really likes them, i kind of wanted to emphasise that feeling of being in a friend group where everyone's established and you're sort of a plus-one? you don't really fit yet. part of that is her being new, part of it is her anxiety, part of it is just the kind of person sumi is where she's so polite and self-conscious she ends up taking herself out of things with her own good intentions. stuff like her interrupting the flow of an existing conversation by greeting everyone instead of jumping straight in because she doesn't feel comfortable inserting herself, which means everyone else stops to greet her even though that doesn't normally happen in a friend group, or making a point of thanking everyone for being invited to events while the others take it as a given.

idk i love that she feels a bit out of place with the phantom thieves in p5r. and part of that is a natural consequence of being a new addition in royal who can't be naturally integrated with an existing dynamic but i honestly feel like the writing team realised that and acknowledged it, and really leaned into it, and that made it work incredibly well for me. like, it's part of her character that she's sort of an outsider. it's not like p4g's incredibly clumsy integration of marie and subsequent attempt to shove her down everyone's throat as the canon love interest in p4ga (knife). sumi has that outsider vibe on purpose and it makes me really like her dynamic with the thieves as an individual

goro also feels slightly out of place in these chats, but his conversational style blends more naturally with the other thieves at this point and he even uses their codenames sometimes. i keep saying my chatfic series isn't a real Series because the lore keeps changing, but if we accept that they're all kind of following a General Continuity, assume this takes place some time after the last fic in which ren added goro to the groupchat and they made an effort to integrate him into their friend group. he's kind of there now and has settled into being the weird boyfriend. that's his role.

every time goro says something like "ren and i" assume it's the text equivalent of him talking to the group with his arm around ren's waist.

ok i got really fond of this silly running joke where sumi brings up the weather when she's feeling uncomfortable. she's so polite. i like this thread because setting it up meant i got to tie it off like this:

this just made me happy lol i liked writing this. i tried to use it to demonstrate that despite goro's abrasiveness he obviously knows sumire pretty well, he's attuned to her quirks and knows how to tell when she's having a bad time with her anxiety, so he uses her little weather habit to ground her.

i honestly dont think goro and sumire could be considered close in p5r and as much as i like the "royal trio" in canon they're not really... like... friends? with each other? they're both attached to ren, so it' more a V shape than anything else. but that said, i really LIKE goro and sumi's canon dynamic. he takes a really grouchy but politely attentive supervisory role to her during their few forays into the palace as a trio where he doesn't really know her well but clearly identifies her as a harmless little tryhard who needs some guidance and steps into that role grudgingly, and she immediately looks up to him despite being very wrong footed by his ruthlessness, which i find incredibly charming. i think given time they could be good friends, they just didn't get much chance to know each other very well in canon. so i tried to kinda do that here.

once goro stops being evil and joins the group they all kind of tiredly accept that his role is to occasionally push a cup off a bench while smirking and refuse to clean it up. emotionally, i mean.

wait i need to backtrack chronologically to talk about akeshu.

in this scene they're in the same room lol talking and snickering while typing. im trying to get at that vibe of the annoying couple who is flirting with each other, via you. you know? like ostensibly they're talking to you (sumire) but everything they say to you is part of their stupid game. sumi is incidental to goro and ren teasing each other about flirting with someone else, goro is reporting everything ren says because his boyfriend is so eye-rollingly foolish in a cute way. they're very tickled by how amusing and charming they are. gross. disgusting. sumire im so sorry for putting you through this

anyway here are too many of my favourite jokes from the fic

#futaba gets a lot of my favourite punchlines because i love her. i think she's an incredible vessel for comedic timing #once again you can see how much i overthink everything #given the amount of thought that goes into character shit for what LOOKS like a stupid 3 second chatfic #but is really. a stupid 3 second chatfic with twenty years of overthinking behind it #it takes time and effort. to be this stupid #anyway i love sumi. i think she's so cute. i like her dynamic with the thieves so much #ive said it before but i think chatfic is one of those mediums that looks so deceptively simple because #you know it's just silly dialogue and memes. it's very accessible. anyone can write a funny chatfic #but i think it's such a character-forward 'genre' that it's really really difficult to do well in the sense that it feels like the characte #s you know and not just mouthpieces for memes with familiar names attached. so im kinda obsessed with the genre #it relies so heavily on every character having a distinctive voice without trying too hard to be unique #ideally you should be able to read one of these with no names attached ands till get a general sense of who's talking #without having to rely on liek (sorry) homestuck style quirks which make it visibly obvious #that' skinda hard because irl people's typing styles aren't THAT distinct you know. theres only so many variations #you can make to a person's use of grammar punctuation capitalisation etc before it becomes a gimmick instead of an idiosyncrasy #but hopefully if the character voice is strong enough their identtiy should come through more subtly anyway. idk .idk if im there but i lov #to work towards it #wow i wrote anothr essay in the tags about my love for Modern Epistolary Fiction (chatfic)#after already writing a whole essay in the post #i mgonna shut up guys thanks for having me #rookfic #asks #p5 #rookthots

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the-martyrfication-of-the-matron · 1 month

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Zenix’s little tangent in Episode 35… doesn’t entirely make sense. Or at least I don’t like parts of it and so I’m gonna bitch.

Tw I speak a little bit about abuse and cults at the end.

Zenix: “I’m sure garroth told you… didn’t he? How he found me? He must have… you were always his favorite. Isn’t it funny how he found me around the same time the old Lord was murdered?”

That’s just the beginning of it, of course.

But… Zenix saying this doesn’t really… fit.

SKs kill people in order to gain immortality (typically guards who kill their lords, but it’s established in episode 31, Criminal Brains, that it’s not only guards and not only lords). This is usually someone they knew in their human life, that’s just how it’s always been with SKs, that’s the whole… tragic romance of them. Whoever they dedicated their mortal life to will be the sacrifice to their immortal life.

Whether Zenix is saying he showed up in Phoenix drop shortly before or after he killed the lord is nothing to me, because either way, it’s clear they don’t have that bond. Even Azura states that Zenix swore himself to GARROTH. And the later established lore that sks have permanently red eyes after killing their person doesn’t even apply to Zenix in this case, because he had brown eyes the entire time we knew him, up until they clearly decided that he was the one who murdered the old lord and scrapped Vylad’s involvement.

Because up until this point… all evidence pointed to Vylad. From flashbacks of him standing outside of the old lord’s house with a flint and steel to Sasha basically outright saying it, everything has pointed at Vylad. And I’m not saying twists are a negative, red herrings are fun, but nothing good ever comes when you mix jesson and red herrings… clearly. So this was just… not a good twist. I’ve been keeping track of a lot of stuff and there just wasn’t enough for me to justify it as something pre-planned. But if someone else has another opinion I’m happy to hear.

This is something they do a lot with Zenix. Even with the original reveal that he was a bad guy, they retconned Brendan’s statement of events to make him look worse. They turned Zenix using him like a human body shield into Zenix going out of his way to hurt Brendan, though it didn’t need to be done. It just made him seem unnecessarily cruel.

And now they’ve retconned who killed the old lord to make Zenix look worse again. And I think this is because Jesson cannot cope with moral ambiguity.

Vylad and Zenix are the two most morally ambiguous characters up to this point. Zenix has an evil lean, no doubt, but a lot of his actions lack any known motivation, especially his kind actions, or moments when he does things that are objectively good but… we don’t know why, in order for us to actually understand his moral compass. Sure he is evil-aligned, but he is clearly not fully evil. He has shades of grey… and so does Vylad. Vylad clearly has a good lean, but we don’t know enough about him, and we know he is evil-aligned (he is shown to be peers with Gene and Sasha in earlier episodes) so it’s very… vague. Hazy. Morals? Questionable.

But then Jesson went— HOLD UP! Make Zenix explicitly bad by stating that he was the one to kill the old lord because he wanted immortality… and make Vylad explicitly good by stating that he was the one who hindered Zenix from killing more people.

It wss more interesting when Zenix was just some guy who did bad stuff and had an unknown backstory, and some people rooting for the good in him.

And when Vylad was spooky as fuck.

But that’s too much nuance, give a clear morality to the gay men.

Dont make SKs interesting by giving Zenix red eyes for attempting to kill the man he dedicated his life to! No! Don’t expand the lore by making it obvious that the reason that SKs have to kill their loved ones is to mirror cult/abuse tactics that distance the victims from any real support system they could have to escape! Dont give Zenix red eyes even though he failed at killing Garroth because the bond between them is irreparably damaged despite Garroth’s denial of it! Don’t do that! That’s too much nuance!

#aphmau #aphverse #aphblr #tw abuse #tw cult

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digisurvive · 10 months

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The partnerships of Digimon Survive, part I

A little while ago, a friend sent me this post talking about what the partnerships in the adventure-02 verse reveal about the kids' character and asked me if I'd be interested in writing something like it for Survive. I happily obliged, and this is part one on the subject (as of right now, it's about 60% done and it's at 6432 words, so in the interest of keeping the post readable...)

Spoilers for everything.

CW: Child abuse, since this part contains Shuuji's section.

As explained in this interview on 4gamer, for Digimon Survive, the staff drew from Digimon lore established in Adventure— namely that the partner digimon are “spiritual beings” who are the kids’ one and only partners, part of the kids' own being and responsive to their growth. Generally speaking, Habu and the staff decided on the human characters’ background first and then picked a digimon that fit them so that there would be synergy between their behavior, general storyline and the partnermon’s personality and evolution paths. The one exception to this process being the main character himself, Takuma.

Takuma and Agumon

As revealed in that same interview, Takuma’s partner is Agumon because Agumon is a popular digimon that most fans will accept (60% of players answered they wanted Agumon as a partner in the player survey they conducted asking “Which Digimon would like as a partner?”). Thanks to this popularity, Agumon has a lot of possible evolution paths established that can show the range of the different routes and reflect on Takuma’s status as player character, which makes his behavior flexible and respondent on the player’s decisions. However, it’s also thanks to Agumon being the franchise’s mascot that he’s also got a fairly well defined personality, and Takuma himself is consistently characterized despite his main-character condition.

Generally speaking, Agumon is mostly portrayed as an easy-going and straightforward digimon who wears his heart on his sleeve and is adept at following his instincts into battle. He’s often seen acting on noble and heroic impulses, which might seem to contrast him to Takuma. After all, Takuma is a bit of a wimpy kid who’s constantly fearful during his stay in the kemonogami world; which is quite apparent the moment they meet: even though Koromon is a baby— and thusly exhibits a healthy amount of caution in approaching Takuma— he’s still the one to approach him, much to Takuma’s dismay. This open courage is reinforced through the fact Koromon jumps to the task of protecting Takuma against Gotsumon, despite being very obviously weak.

The apparent gap between the two continues through the game: where Agumon will freely admit his emotions and general ignorance, Takuma appears more withdrawn and thoughtful, always weighing what would be the best thing to say and how the others might react or be feeling. Let’s not forget, however, that the partermon acting as mirrors to the kids might mean that either they’re showing an aspect to their hearts that is not as easily accessible/obvious or show the areas where they have to grow. Both of these aspects are true for Takuma, as he does grow to be braver and willing to face the challenges the world throws at them — this is especially apparent during the ultimate evolution scene for the Truthful route, where he boldly proclaims their desire to fight and save the kemonogami world. Additionally, Agumon has been portrayed as someone with great emotional insight before, which does fit Takuma to a tee. Takuma’s inner monologue evidences how in touch he is with his own emotions and how adept he is at imagining how others must be feeling. Therefore, Takuma’s deeply emotive nature not only shows in his fear-induced paralysis but in his primary function in the group as their caretaker. He looks after the others because he is quite sociable and reasons primarily through emotion, much like Agumon. He doesn’t really investigate the nature of the world intellectually like Shuuji does, nor gets bogged down about fulfilling his duties the way Aoi does, but acts based on his instincts.

Furthermore, Takuma is usually shown unable to propose pragmatic plans, doing better at listening to the others and weighing in based on the mood of the group— this matches Agumon’s own obliviousness and inexperience about the world as well as his naivety. Because Takuma isn’t prone to thinking logically, he often fails to plan ahead and usually only faces things as they come. His go-with-the-flow attitude is best observed during the prologue, and it’s this flexible demeanor what allows him to get along with just about anyone. This can also make him quite naive, as it’s shown when he’s on the fence about believing the Mysterious Woman, unlike the harsh paranoia Kaito exhibits or the reticence from his seniors.

Because Agumon and Takuma are actually so like-minded, Takuma is able to rely on Agumon to sort out his feelings and worries, as seen in the way he asks Agumon for advice in the same way the others do of him. Agumon is able to service him with the unwavering, comforting support Takuma needed to be able to step out of his comfort zone and become bolder. Their philosophical talks show that Takuma is also able to question how to best approach others and his own morality through their partnership (and denying their bond leads Takuma to his most morally bankrupt during the Bad Ending). They’re so in-tune with each other that they’re one of the few pairs that don’t fight during part 6.

Aoi and Labramon

Labramon’s introduction is likely one of Survive’s most comedic bits. Where Aoi shows herself gentle and worried over Minoru’s well-being, Labramon is harsh and downright crude to him. They might be one of the pairs that feel the most “mismatched”, given the fact that Aoi’s speech remains ever polite and friendly contrasts to Labramon not being afraid of speaking rudely and bluntly to others. This gap in speech is subtly bridged in part 5, when we find Aoi’s CD. She talks about liking old rock songs and relays her favorite lyrics to Takuma:

自分の決めた道を行け邪魔する奴らを蹴散らして

The lyrics feature aggressive and colloquial speech, from the scornful third-person pronoun 奴ら and the quite informally contracted verb form. It’s quite telling it’s a lyric about following one’s path and crushing whoever opposes it. The sentiment and speech feel quite fitting for Labramon, and thus, we’re clued in that her waspish demeanor is a reflection of Aoi’s well-hidden and repressed resentments. Arguably, it’s because Aoi is so reluctant to show her anger or grievances that they fester and Labramon shows them disproportionately. Once she starts becoming more assertive, Labramon earnestly starts showing other of her emotions— as seen in the affinity dialogue in Truthful’s part 10, when the group is saying their goodbyes to depart the amusement park, Labramon wants to relay Aoi’s honest concern for its denizens directly to them. This push for Aoi to express herself openly it's a recurring theme through the talks between them. Additionally, Labramon is more openly meddlesome, affectionate and prideful, which shows the range of emotions Aoi keeps under wraps.

The CD scene is not the only case where their energies match, as we get to see when Aoi gets heated and quells Shuuji and Kaito during their fight in part 4 (and later again, with Kaito, when she wants to handle the toddler digimon at the park). This is also shown when she ardently jumps to Saki's defense against the fake Floramon in part 5. Despite her seemingly docile persona, Aoi is actually quite passionate. This is something we will see expressed more intentionally and consistently (as opposed to her early outbursts) when she grows to embrace this side of herself and her position as their leader, particularly during the Moral Route (Wrathful shows a warped expression of this development since she's not only at her most destructive and wanton— she’s also the least honest she’s ever been: hiding behind machinations, deceit and passive aggression and doggedly maintaining her outer politeness).

Aside from reflecting her desire for aggression and true emotions, Labramon and her evo line also fit to a tee Aoi’s devoted sense of duty. From Labramon’s official profile,we can glean she’s a digimon with a duty. Being an artificial digimon means she was specifically created to fulfill a function, which is further cemented by the fact she’s a literal living vaccine program. Her only skill movement in-game being Cure Liqueur fits Aoi’s own first-aid skills, which are promptly demonstrated when she patches Labramon up in part 1. Dobermon takes this a step further being a digimon whose only purpose is to hunt viruses. This adult stage marks the start of a consistent theme in the evo line about harnessing monstrous power in order to fulfill one’s duties, much like Aoi needs to embrace assertiveness and authority to be able to properly respond to the situations before her and achieve her goals. This is made as textually explicit as it can be during the Cerberumon evo scene, where they remark upon the ferocious shape Aoi’s desires took in this perfect stage, and she openly admits her desire for power— power as having the agency, authority and self-confidence to assert herself—. Cerberumon’s words encourage her not to be afraid of using this latent power already present in herself and to keep a just heart to wield it fairly. Anubimon is the judge of the dark area, who weighs over fallen digimon’s data to either banish them forever or grant them the chance of rebirth. Its role as a fair judge relates to Aoi’s role as a leader who listens to everyone’s input so everyone can reach either a unanimous decision or call for a timeout so the group can put their feelings back in line. Anubimon as a possible endgame for her also foils her corruption arc that leads her to become Plutomon, given both are underlined by the fact she has embraced the authority and power inherent to her social positions and is proactively preserving Harmony, albeit with completely different ethos.

Labramon will consistently encourage Aoi to be more confident and tackle the challenges before her, as her evo scenes and general demeanor evidence. For this reason, Aoi regards Labramon as someone who is as assertive and reliable as she should be, while keeping a really poor opinion of herself. This is at the core of their conflict in part 6, where she worries about what exactly she gives back to Labramon, who's so capable already and has to support her in everything she does. Because Aoi is very stubborn and her beliefs are deeply held, it's difficult for her to internalize the positive feedback Labramon and the others offer her. She admits as much when Takuma mediates between the two, and she promises to work on her inner monologue to be able to treat herself as kindly as Labramon does. This open-ended journey for her to deal with her self-loathing plays a big role in her endgames. Where in Moral she's able to trust the group and delegate —thus managing her workload and stress— ultimately getting the support she needs on her ever on-going journey to assertiveness, in Wrathful she becomes consumed by her self-loathing. So much so, her desires to become a better version of herself and her view of Labramon as the better half are crystallized into becoming Plutomon (think of her dialogue when she explains who she is now: "Aoi? No, I've cast off that weak persona. I'm Plutomon."). Arguably, Labramon being utterly loyal and devoted to Aoi to the point she'd sacrifice herself for her—and the Biomerge only featuring Aoi's voice, signifying Labramon has been consumed— also show the toxic pitfalls of Aoi's scrupulous work ethic. In this way, Labramon and the different outcomes of her evolution line perfectly encapsulate Aoi’s self and possible growth.

Ryo and Kunemon

One of the things that stand out the most about Kunemon is the fact he's unable to verbally communicate (although the other partnermon are able to instinctively understand him). Secondly, are the knee-jerk reactions his presence receives— namely, the disgust and rejection due being "creepy" and "scary" (mostly coming from Ryo himself). This is likened to Ryo in a rather blatant manner via Saki's remark after his death in the vanilla route, where she comments about his loneliness and trouble expressing himself. This sense he's icky and insignificant plagues Ryo before he attends the spring camp— which is made the most clear in his prequel story, where he's sharply aware his behavior is repulsive, and so he wishes to attend camp to avoid the rejection from his classmates and in order to make friends.

The similarities between Ryo and Kunemon's communication styles don't end in their difficulties: in order to get across his support for him, Kunemon will make Ryo gifts and punch up his behavior in order to give away his feelings through his body language. Much in the same vein, although with the antisocial intention of preemptively shielding himself from others, Ryo overplays his posture and facial expressions to look tougher and cooler than he actually is. On the uptick, when Ryo wants to put his best foot forward, his main ways to get integrated into the group comes in the form of helping Aoi with cooking, supporting Shuuji and helping mediate the group discussions (even if his speech remains as rough as ever). Kunemon shows early on, even when he was completely unhelpful and uncooperative, Ryo's hands-on approach to caring for others. So hands on that, words failing, both will rely on getting physical to snap others out of dangerous situations…

Kunemon's care for Ryo is epitomized when he pushes him out of the way and prevents him from walking straight to the Kenzoku. This opens Ryo's eyes to the way he's been cared for not just by Kunemon, but by Takuma and the group. Through Kunemon's love for him, he's able to accept the support others are able to offer him, instead of assuming the worst of them by default. This makes it possible for him to start looking to integrate into the group. Kunemon helping Ryo's social reinsertion is made apparent in the theme of loyalty running through his evo line, where Ryo proudly proclaims he will stand by his side come what might. This attitude very much mirrors his shift from paranoid doomerism to being on board with whatever the group decides in order to stay with them (as he puts in to Takuma in part 5) and his drive to protect and help Miu and Shuuji. Additionally, his ultimate evolution, BanchoStingmon, is all about pride and confidence, which is a far cry from his degraded self image Kunemon initially reflected.

Kunemon's lack of speech also externalizes Ryo's sense of isolation. Takuma notes that even though he's unable to understand Kunemon, Ryo is perfectly capable of communicating with him. Amid his feverish distress, Ryo speaks nastily to Kunemon: he remarks that nobody is listening to what he has to say. This, again, has a rather obvious parallel to the way Ryo feels his worries dismissed by the group. His sense of neglect runs deep, as he was not allowed to see his mother in favor of keeping up with normal life, despite how much it obviously affected him. Likewise, Ryo's angry remarks that Kunemon is weak and useless for not being able to speak reflect the way he feels about himself; during the search for Shuuji and co. in part two, should the player decide to check up on him, Ryo will straight up say in a self-deprecating manner that if Takuma needs him, he will be useless and in the way as usual. As much as Ryo's self-awareness makes him deeply self-conscious in the first stretch of the game, it also makes him keen and the only one in the group not to be tricked by the doppelganger partnermon— he's perceptive enough to detail and his own internal nature to be able to instinctively understand Kunemon, and, as such, it's impossible for him to mistake him among the shadows.

It is to be noted, however, that Ryo's ability to communicate with Kunemon fluctatues, as shown in the JewelBeemon evolution scene. In it, Ryo laments that once he panics, he stops making sense of Kunemon's words and resorts to solving things by force. Given his perfect evolution scene also uses training as shorthand that Ryo is working on himself continously, it could be taken to mean his own disposition to communicate is a work on progress. Just like he mantains his relationship with Kunemon through crafting objects for his needs and remaining calm to understand him, he needs to cultivate the same disposition towards the group.

Saki and Floramon

Saki and Floramon are a very like-minded pair, sharing a sociable, carefree, cheerful and optimistic disposition. So much so, Saki actually remarks that sometimes talking to Floramon is like talking to herself. Whenever Saki gets irked by Takuma’s fenceriding or overall tepidness, Floramon matches her indignation and openly expresses the desire for Saki to be protected or for the situation to be taken care of. While this bluntness is seemingly in line with Saki’s character —let’s remember the first thing she does upon arriving at the school is demand a different room for the girls— it's actually a point of contrast between the two.

Despite appearances, Saki's actually very discreet about her needs and won't voice them until she has no other recourse — in the case of pt4, until she literally couldn't keep going during their trek to the amusement park. She's generally really cagey to talk directly about her illness. She reacts strongly to feeling exposed when Takuma finds her medical chart in part 5, getting flustered and diverting attention from it via calling Takuma a pervert for prying, which creates an awkward atmosphere that prevents Takuma from snooping any further. In general, her affinity dialogues favor answers that reassure her without pressing her to talk directly about her illness and the troubles it brings— think about her affinity dialogue in part 7 before you enter the factory, where she vaguely explains to Takuma she might be unable to see the others for a while after a camp, and the best answer is to reassure her you'll stay friends without asking for clarification. This avoidance underlines Floramon's evolution line, with Vegiemon using underhanded tactics to get ahead others (not unlike Saki’s trait of knowing exactly which buttons to press to be liked, deflect or get what she wants—the latter especially apparent in her prequel story); Blossomon having a timid and reclusive disposition that'd rather avoid fights (which mirrors Saki's own reluctant posture with regards their conflict against other kemonogami); even Ceresmon Medium rarely lets herself be seen in order to avoid fighting and adopts more of a support role. Furthermore, Vegiemon is typically a neglect evolution born out of care mistakes, which finds a clear parallel in Saki postponing her medical treatment, but also the way she tries to push herself to keep up with group and what she wants to do, even if it's dangerous for her.

Floramon being more straightforward about expressing Saki's needs and desires to be taken care of and/or reassured means she embodies Saki's most authentic self, unburdened from social rules and her fears of rejection. While Saki might maintain the secrecy about her condition, this isn’t something she necessarily wants to do as much as something she feels she needs to. This is shown in the flippant way she lets Takuma know about her sickness in part 9, without necessarily wanting to talk deeply about it but to have the freedom to bring it up without fanfare. Floramon’s uncomplicated demeanor allows Saki to honestly engage with herself, as seen in the Vegiemon evolution cutscene. When Saki is too caught up in her head about the honesty of her intentions— how much of her actions stem from genuine feelings vs following the course of action she knows will get her to be liked— Floramon encourages her to stay in touch with her heart and not overthink it. This facilitates her endgame of a self-acceptance that isn’t completely predicated on the whims of external validation, as shown in her Moral shadow event.

Her relationship with Floramon also pushes Saki to tackle conflict in a direct and considerate way. One of Saki’s long-running preoccupations concerns whether she’s selfish or not. In the first half of part 3, when they talk about Ryo, Takuma assuages her by saying she’s not because he notices her keenness can lead her to be very mindful of those around her. However, this behavior can also lead her to be two-faced, as seen with how she treats Floramon at the start of part 6. Her conflict with Floramon involves not only the reassurance of Floramon’s unconditional support and protection, but also calls her to confront how her avoidance can be self-centered and hurt others, which is another cornerstone to Saki’s arc: to learn to engage with conflict honestly.

Shuuji and Lopmon

This pair wins the dubious award of Most Troubling Partnership, with Shuuji’s rejection of Lopmon being downright abusive. During the Digimon Con 2022 livestream, Habu alluded to the nature of their relationship by saying that because the digimon are the other half of a human soul, hurting your partermon is a form of self-harm. And so, Shuuji’s treatment of Lopmon corresponds to the way his own internal monologue plays out, which is made apparent in the self-depreciating way he speaks of himself when he’s breaking down in the waterways. This passage in the game also highlights Shuuji is mainly motivated to gain his father’s approval and his subsequent despair over not getting it and being rejected— which has a clear mirror in Lopmon’s overall pitiful, fawning disposition (and by his own admission that he desired for Shuuji’s praise in the Turuiemon evo scene). Lopmon will lament and wonder about why he’s the only one who’s despised much like Shuuji will wail about being the unbecoming son and frantically ruminate over what he’s doing wrong. It’s clear then that Lopmon reflects Shuuji’s most vulnerable and frail feelings as a defenseless child against parental abuse, which is further reinforced by Lopmon’s small, frail build and his helpless yet attention-starved demeanor.

Lopmon consistently reflects Shuuji’s most frail and unflattering stress responses in the way he cowers and cries whenever the situation gets too much. Shuuji himself is shown panicking and freezing plenty of times— starting by how genuinely overwhelmed he gets in the prologue when having to choose the best course of action before crossing the tunnel: whether to let Aoi and co. tag along or not. Despite the ways he tries to lead Saki with an iron-fist during part 2, he quickly sinks into his overwhelm and fear from being chased around. Not to mention that he straight up wailed the same as Lopmon at the cable car. Despite Shuuji’s ugly behavior muddling the situation, Lopmon and Shuuji are actually very painfully alike, so much so that they’re the first ones to note how they’re always thinking and experiencing the world in similar ways after they come out of the tunnel in Truthful. Even Shuuji’s worst eventually finds its expression in Lopmon when he dark evolves and embodies Shuuji’s sorrow and anger in the most destructive—and suicidal— way possible where he literally cannibalizes his other half, after being broken down over a really agonizing slow burn, much like Shuuji became who he is after enduring his own abuse for a long time.

Lopmon mirrors Shuuji’s experience not only through his reactions to it, but in the way their scenarios are crafted to begin with. From being reprimanded for lagging behind during the hike in part 4 and told to keep pace despite his small body, to being berated for being unable to explain himself properly in part 5 during the restroom scene, the scenarios very intentionally evoke common experiences children in abusive households will go through, down to having Shuuji’s speech match the way said parents speak to their children. Shuuji’s mistreatment of Lopmon not only is allegorical of his self-hatred and self-harm, it actively shows you the abuse he has had to endure and how he excuses it and reproduces it— because he’s not good enough, his father’s berating is only done so he can improve just like he is cruel to Lopmon to toughen him up and mold him into the imposing leader/monster they should be. It’s a chilling and effective portrayal of verbal abuse and how deeply felt and noxious its effects are, despite not being as obvious to portray as physical abuse.

On the uptick, Lopmon’s demeanor will change when Shuuji finally accepts the mistreatment wasn’t warranted. Being able to recognize Lopmon only ever did his best and didn’t deserve to be put down for it serves for him to be able to internalize that truth for his own self, and start seeing value in the traits he loathed so much about himself. To look at himself with the capacity of love and kindness, even if previously it had been impossible for him. With his newfound resolution to live not for external approval —and this is enabled because Shuuji knows he doesn't have to grovel for it anymore, given that the group wants to support him even when he has hit rock bottom—, but to be able to make his own self proud and live without regrets, Lopmon’s own behavior relaxes and becomes more serene and braver. Lopmon’s evo line reflects Shuuji’s need to hone a calm, disciplined spirit (in contrast to his earlier emotional outbursts) in Turuiemon; his commitment to fulfilling his duties and looking after his juniors in Andiramon (a healthy expression of what we already saw at its worst in part 5); and his intellectual ideals in Cherubimon.

Special thanks to chettiri for pointing out the pertinent speech observations and reading the draft as it updated, as well as the friends who checked up on my progress and reminded of details I might have omitted.

#digimon survive #mine #meta #takuma momozuka #aoi shibuya #ryo tominaga #saki kimishima #shuuji kayama #takuma #aoi #ryo #saki #shuuji #long post

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cursedvibes · 3 months

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My JJK Arc Ranking

Culling Game (ch 159-221) + Baka Survivor (ch 239-243)

Perfect Preparation (ch 144-158)

Itadori's Extermination (ch 137-143)

Death Painting (ch 55-64)

Shibuya Incident (ch 79-136)

Vs Mahito (ch 19-31)

Fearsome Womb (ch 1-18)

Hidden Inventory (ch 65-79)

Shinjuku Showdown (ch 222-262+)

Kyoto Goodwill Event (ch 32-54)

Cursed Child (Vol 0)

Note that this is my personal ranking of which arcs I like the most and least, not any objective statement. Like for example, I think Hidden Inventory is well-written, but it doesn't interest me much, that's why it's further towards the bottom.

With the manga drawing to a close, I thought I'd write down my thoughts about what we've gotten so far and what I like or don't like in the different arcs.

Culling Game

Starting at #1 with the Culling Game Arc. It's where my interest in the story really picked up and I got invested to the point of bothering to write analyses, dig into the lore and historical background and even start writing fanfiction. Culling Game is the meat of the story, where we got introduced to new important lore of characters, further explored their themes and connected dots that had been set up before. It is sort of a lul after the big climax of the Shibuya Incident, but I think that's also what was needed here, since this is more of a section where Gege takes time to explore concepts and characters further. Shibuya is a big payoff for the first part of the story and Culling Game builds on that, it establishes a level ground for the last part of the story. Characters like Yuuji and Maki for example found themselves fundamentally changed after Shibuya and used this time to find their footing again and try to create a new way for themselves to move forward. In Yuuji's case he had to do it twice even with the massive turn of not being Sukuna's vessel anymore aka having his role, purpose and ideal death taken from him. He catches himself relatively quickly though.

Also this arc just had a lot of moments I really like, actually most of my favourite moments in jjk happen here. Like Kenjaku calling Yuuji their son, Yuuji's fight against Higuruma, Maki's awakening, Noritoshi reconciling with his mother having a new family, Kenjaku & Uraume rolling up to the White House, the Yuki vs Kenjaku fight, the Heian trio spa day, Yorozu's backstory, Kenjaku and Tengen getting Sukuna's mummy and much more. The fights were for the most part also great. You always took something new away and I liked how we were slowly spoon-fed information about the Culling Game and Kenjaku's plans. Almost every chapter had something to pick apart and even with the cycle through the colonies there was always tension because you didn't know what this would all lead to. Even when the protagonists were doing well, things could change at the drop of a dime. There was a false sense of security. The main group got a little bit of control only to have it ripped away when they least expected it.

Baka Survivor

I put the Baka Survivor arc up here as well because while it might technically be during the Shinjuku Showdown, I thought it was so far removed from the fight against Sukuna that it's reasonable to see it as its own mini-arc. Plus, I think this section is a lot better than the majority of the Shinjuku Showdown. It's like Gege took some time to play around and write what was fun to them, the stuff they actually want to write. The end was a bit...meh. Mainly because of the context of this fight and Kenjaku's larger role in the story, especially what Kenjaku's death this early would mean (or not mean...) for Yuuji. Yuuta's integration here was also very weak because while he might have reasons to go after Kenjaku that were a little bit explored (although I think you could've done way more with it than just "wants to do it for Gojo" after all a big theme of this fight was connecting with other people and building friendships/partnerships, which is something closely related to Yuuta's character), he was absolutely irrelevant from Kenjaku's perspective. You could've put anyone in his place and it wouldn't have changed anything from Kenjaku's point of view. Well, maybe if you put Yuuji there, but Gege was clearly not interested in exploring their relationship like that....

Anyway, I have raved about this arc a lot on my blog already, but in summary I absolutely love how we explore both Kenjaku and Takaba further, compare them and their understanding of comedy/curiosity and how both of them struggle to open up to others, show their real self and make themselves vulnerable. I especially think that this was actually thematically a very nice end for Kenjaku. They indulge in what they really want, have fun without the need of excessive cruelty (although there was violence from both of them) and they allowed themselves to connect with someone else again and make a friend. Chasing after their superficial goals of merging humanity they lost their closest friend, Tengen, were thrown into doubt and Takaba both offered himself as an alternative and pulled them further away from their insane ideas. Best thing about it is that Kenjaku went for it! They got caught up in the comedy with Takaba, they paid the price for allowing themselves such a close relationship with someone else and lowering their guard, and they still didn't regret it. In fact they were glad they spend their time before their death with Takaba and finally having fun. Of course the merger plan continues, they can't just let Tengen die with them or fall into the protagonists hands and it is too late for Tengen to change back anyway, but I absolutely love Kenjaku's character development here. Just remains to be seen how Takaba will leave this fight and how he will react to having once again lost a partner.

Perfect Preparation

Really like this arc for all the new lore we get as well as emotional chapters like the Zenin massacre and Yaga's death. The introduction of Hakari and Kirara was fun too, but the highlight for me is definitely the meeting with Tengen and Maki's massacre. Ch 145 and 146 might be in the top 5 of the chapters I have reread most often. You always find something new there and there's so much about the relationship between Tengen, the Star Plasma Vessels and the six eyes to take apart, particularly with later reveals like Yuki also being a Star Plasma Vessel. Those two chapters were also what first really got me more interested in Kenjaku and their history with Tengen. It's when it becomes apparent just how much Kenjaku has planned and arranged over the past millennium and it also raises even more questions of why Tengen never mentioned them before and how Kenjaku could stay undercover for so long.

Then we of course also have the Zenin massacre. I like how it starts with giving us some clan politics. I love that shit. Wish we got something similar for the Kamo and Gojo, but oh well. Maki's meeting with her mother when she goes for the weapon storage is already pretty chilling, but it's even better when you see her mother go from "why can't you make me proud of you for once?" to "I'm glad I gave birth to you". Shows how much she suffered under the Zenin as well, despite playing by their rules. Too bad she only came to the conclusion to treat her kids decently when it was already too late. Maki also only found out her mother did care about her and was the one to finish off Naoya when she was already dead. Just like her reunion and clearing conversation with Mai, it all happens just a little too late and that's what makes it so wonderfully tragic.

Also shout-out to Yaga's death scene. I've come to appreciate it much more recently and I particularly like seeing him together with all the other autonomous cursed corpses he keeps hidden away and the hints of the friendship he has with Kusakabe.

Itadori's Extermination

Honestly, I mostly like this arc for its atmosphere. It's one of the instances where you feel the most just how much destruction, chaos and desolation Shibuya and the start of the Culling Game caused. The main characters roaming the streets all split up and sleeping by campfires, the broken buildings and civilians hunting for scraps of food, curses praying on desperate humans...it's great. Wish we got more of that later on, but I only really got a similar feeling when the foreign armies attacked.

And of course we get the fateful Itadori flashback here. I don't know how many hours I spend looking at those two pages and taking the dialogue apart. Just two pages and I've become utterly obsessed by this weird family. Also the first time we see Kenjaku in a vessel that is not Geto, so that's extra nice.

I remember also really liking Yuuta's reintroduction when the chapters first came out. He looked so much worse than in Vol 0, so that was really intriguing. Bit disappointed there wasn't more conflict and it turned out he looks like shit because...well, that's just his look now. Still good arc.

Death Painting

I like this one because it's where Yuuji, Nobara and Megumi feel most like a team going on a mission and solving a mystery. Especially the opening of it, with weird paranormal events that remind you of classic Japanese horror stories is really nice and always manages to draw me in. Kinda wish there were more missions like that just for the sake of atmosphere, even though I don't think the story necessarily needs it. Seeing Mahito and Kenjaku capture a civilian man, strip him, nail him to a wall and then feed him a cursed fetus was also insane. Never get tired of watching/reading that no matter if it's the manga or anime. Vol 7 was the first jjk volume I ever bought and I remember how striking it was to open the book and start with that scene. Gave me chills.

I also love the entire fight with Eso and Kechizu. One because I just like their characters and getting introduced to the background of the Death Painting's existence was interesting, but I also really enjoyed Yuuji and Nobara's dynamic here and their talk about what it means to kill.

Shibuya Incident

Really good arc and what made me more interest in how jjk would continue when I first read the manga, but rereading it there are definitely some fights and scenes that really drag for me and I end up skipping whenever I read it again or when I watched S2. Like all the curse users working for Kenjaku that ended up being entirely irrelevant. The backstory of Ogami and the guy with the big eyes was nice because it gave us an insight into what the life of regular curse users (not big hitters like Geto or Kenjaku) is actually like and how society changed when Gojo was born. That's some world building I very much appreciate. Aside from that all the curse users are very forgettable though. There's a reason I only remember Ogami's name and none of the others'. Some other stuff also just comes down to character preferences like I'm not that interested in what Nanami or Ino were up to and Toji was also...eh. Nice, but I'm not losing my mind over it. Nanami's death scene is great though. I mostly love Shibuya for its later stages. Yuuji's fight against Mahito, how seeing his friends and civilians die through his inaction makes him breakdown, how his world view changes over the course of fighting Mahito and their scene at the end when the roles of predator and prey are reversed. Kenjaku's entrance and explanation of their plan and what was to come is also very interesting and probably the part I reread most in this arc.

Vs Mahito

I gotta say I do really like Junpei's story and his developing friendship with Yuuji. Yuuji's first few encounters with Mahito are great as well. It's nice seeing them get to know each other and seeing the inciting incidents that cause both of them to gradually get more and more obsessed with killing the other. I also really appreciate this arc for giving us some of those slower scenes that are just focused on Mahito, the curse family or Mahito & Junpei talking philosophy. Mahito is a quite fascinating character even in his simplistic cruelty and here you can also see the most just how horrific, but also intriguing, Idle Transfiguration is. This arc has one of the best horror in jjk and I appreciate the anime for emphasizing the comparisons to the Human Centipede movies and human experimentation even further. It's really close between this and Shibuya Incident. I just ended up putting Shibuya higher because when it hits, it hits hard and I still like the high points it has more than the Vs Mahito arc. Still appreciate the groundwork this arc laid for Shibuya to be as impactful as it was.

Hidden Inventory

Like I said in the beginning, I do think this arc is well-written and I think it's a great way to flesh out Gojo and Geto's characters as well as give us more world building and establish the background presence of Tengen and the connection of the Star Plasma Vessel and six eyes to her. I'm also convinced that what we learn here about the Time Vessel Association and the cults that build around Tengen will become relevant again when we get to the Heian flashback and Sukuna's/Tengen's/Kenjaku's backstory. Still have that "Kenjaku created the Time Vessel Association in the Nara period" theory in the back of my mind. This lore is also the main thing I like about this arc. Don't get me wrong, Gojo and Geto's struggles and change in mindset is nice too, but I don't care much about Gojo and don't like Geto, so I ended up focusing more on everything around them. Including Riko. I find her story, the way she grew up and her inevitable death very interesting. Episode 3 of season 2 is still my favourite episode of the season of maybe even the entire anime because it's just that beautiful and I love how they added to the themes of her character by connecting her to the ocean. The inside of the Tomb of Stars is also so eery and entrancing, I could soak in that atmosphere forever. The only reason it's so low is because a lot of this arc is dedicated to Gojo and Geto and their relationship etc. While that is absolutely necessary and was very well done, it's not something I'm much interested in.

Fearsome Womb

Start of the series. It's really those first few chapters and the mission at the detention centre I like about it. It's where you see Yuuji still quite naive and ready to play the hero. I am very interested in his life before joining Jujutsu Tech and when he first got introduced to jujutsu, so this is always nice to revisit and see how he acted before he was forced to become a seasoned sorcerer very quickly. Those glimpses of how Yuuji was always a bit of a loner and also extraordinary from the start due to Kenjaku's meddling. Knowing his family background makes these scenes now even more interesting. His mentality back then is also what makes the moment in the detention centre so special, where he realizes Sukuna isn't Kurama and won't be a convenient power source for him. He could die if he is careless (which he is, of course, he never dealt with anything like this before) and he is scared of it.

Besides that, I also like the introduction of Kenjaku and the curses, how chill it is and how you see them walking among regular citizens undetected by anyone. I think that's especially a fitting introduction to Kenjaku's character. They are unassuming in the beginning of the series, easy to overlook next to flashy Mahito and Jogo, but that's how they have always been throughout history and it's part of the reason for why they never drew much attention besides the Death Painting experiment, which wasn't directly linked to them. Of course Tengen covering for them was the other big reason.

Overall, nice start into the series, even if some parts are a bit slow and don't animate me much to reread them.

Shinjuku Showdown

Shinjuku Showdown fights on a reread do merge well into each other, but it's undeniable that they are very formulaic. Yuuta starts out the same way Higuruma does. Talking about regrets, giving his all, how he has to end everything with a technique only he can use and then he gets cut down. Same with Maki, Kusakabe, Miguel and Larue. It is all the same. We are currently literally watching a slight reshuffle of the fight that started this arc.

Parallel we learn more about Yuuji's new abilities and Sukuna has to gradually exert more force. Technically a good thing, but it's all so repetitive that it loses more and more of it's emotional impact for me. If there is any emotional impact at all. Eventually it just becomes explaining of cursed technique after cursed technique that won't work anyway with minimal depth otherwise. Things get a bit better when most people have been cut away and we start focusing on Yuuji and Sukuna, but by that point I'm already so tired by everything that came before that I can't get that hyped about it and just want a complete change of pace that breaks all rules that have been set up and introduces something completely new. Like the merger for example... Although I have to say, Kashimo's fight might be my favourite still out of the bunch. Has a lot to do with my particular interest and what I'm looking for in a fight. It was short, but we got a nice wrap-up for Kashimo's character, learned more about the Heian era, explored the theme of love and strength and got what is so far one of the deepest looks at Sukuna's philosophy and mindset.

Besides that, on the reread, by the time Kusakabe's fight happens I'm catching myself only skimming the pages. It doesn't help that there's not much initiative happening from Sukuna's side besides the very recent chapters. He's just waiting for others to do something, which lowers the perception of any imminent threat from him. The later half (before Yuuta showed up again) isn't as bad as the Gojo vs Sukuna fight, but I'm still having a hard time staying invested while reading it. Gojo vs Sukuna 2.0 pretty much tanked my interest again. Every week I'm shaking Sukuna to just spit out his backstory already and release Tengen because that's the only thing I care about at this point and I'm bored of this fight. But again, my opinion, others likely feel otherwise.

Kyoto Goodwill Event

Was a bit tempted to put it above Shinjuku Showdown, but at the end of it Shinjuku Showdown still has some scenes I really like, like Kashimo's fight, Yuuji fighting Sukuna and the Sukuna, Uraume and Kenjaku scenes in ch 222. That's more than what I could say for Kyoto Goodwill Event. I don't necessarily dislike it. It doesn't really have any moments that bother me as much as the ones in Shinjuku Showdown, but at the same time nothing in this arc really stands out to me or catches my interest. Often I end up forgetting about it entirely. There's not really much to say about it because I don't have any strong feelings about this one. Not really something I reread unless I'm looking for some very specific information.

Cursed Child

When I first read Vol 0 (right before the Death Painting arc) I thought it was a concept story for jjk. The infant stage of it before Gege made the proper story. Sort of like the original chapter of Naruto where he's actually a fox spirit. Interesting to read to see where jjk started, but not tied to canon. That's also why I didn't question Geto acting very different here. I just though "wow, they made his character way less aggravating". So yeah, Vol 0 is really not something I find interesting or enjoy and I think the writing in it is quite rough. I didn't find Yuuta very compelling. He's an obvious Shinji rip-off, which wouldn't be that bad in itself except I don't find his personality that interesting and him pulling powers out of his ass without any of them being set up prior made me really dislike him. He can just copy techniques now and use them much better than the original person because he's just that overpowered. Who knows how he learned about any of this, who knows what the limitations to any of his powers are, he can apparently just do anything and that makes his fights not very thrilling because there aren't really any stakes. He also has barely any connection to the villain of this arc except that he happens to kill people Yuuta cares about. Geto's ideology is entirely irrelevant. Geto could've said he's killing people because he wants to turn them into Christmas decoration and the fight would've happened the same way. I think putting an ideologically-driven villain against someone whose only care is that his friends are alive and who has also not even the experience to judge if anything Geto says is justified wasn't a very good move. Centring Gojo and Geto's conflict would've been better and also showing us literally anything that would make it possible for us to judge if any of Geto's complaints are justified, if he's talking about real problems. Just going by Vol 0, we don't know that. We can only tell that the bullshit he spouts is an allegory for white supremacy/racism, which obviously is bad. But on it's own it seems like he's just spouting bigotry for bigotry's sake, which doesn't make for a very compelling villain, especially if the rest of the characters and setting don't fit his attitude. Nobody can ever even bring themselves to say something like "genocide bad, eugenics bad". They just don't engage with what he's saying and if that's the case, then why bring it up in the first case. It makes Geto's antics even more unnecessary. On its own it's really not that good of a story and since it's a oneshot with initially no guaranteed sequel, I would expect a bit more.

All that being said, the first time I read Vol 0 I was very annoyed and glad I followed it up with the Death Painting arc, something which is much better written and more up my alley. If Vol 0 was my first exposure to jjk, I don't think I would've continued reading. Having more context from Hidden Inventory fleshes at least out what Gojo and Geto have going on, but my complaints about Yuuta and his lack of meaningful relation to Geto and what he stands for still makes me dislike this arc.

#just putting my mind vomit about different parts of the series here #we'll see how or if they change when it's over #jujutsu kaisen #jjk spoilers

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