#Zophar

[wisdomfish]

Jesus says, "Come unto me all you who are exhausted." His invitation is to those who are exhausted with the search for the truth. The Greeks had said, "It is very difficult to find God, and, when you have found him, it is impossible to tell anyone else about him." Zophar demanded of Job: "Can you find out the deep things of God?" (Job 11:7). It is Jesus' claim that the weary search for God ends in himself.

William Barclay [ref. Matthew 11:29]

[marlowe1-blog]

The Book of Job chapter 11

Zophar the Naamathite is getting impatient

Unlike previous chapters there's a wealth of pretty good material on this guy. Zophar is not just saying that Job is a man of bad faith but also going a little farther by telling Job that he shouldn't be too bothered by getting punished for the sins that he didn't commit since he's also not being punished for the sins that he committed.

But before he gets to the 'you know you weren't punished for stealing candy when you were 10 so maybe you should shut up about God being unfair" he goes on about Job prattling on and being a big old blowhard. Like damn, I kind of like this one. The other two are all toxic positivity but Zophar is "life sucks and you're full of sin so suck it up buttercup."

Apologies for the cliche.

Anyhow the rest of his speech is more the same. You don't know God. You really can't discern what God is all about and you really shouldn't speak about God as if you know what is going on in the universe.

And then wraps it up with the ever popular "if you just find God and act upon your iniquity maybe your life won't be so shitty" with a proverb about about the wicked are always going to suffer and they are just going to wait for death. It feels like it was quoted from somewhere. Like i'm sure I read it in Proverbs just a few weeks ago. I'm not sure, but most of the Proverbs that impressed me were basically talking about Dunning-Kruger.

[mybeautifulchristianjourney]

Zophar: Death and Hell for the Wicked

1 Then Zophar the Naamathite responded and said:

2 “In truth, my troubled thoughts urge me to answer    because of my feelings within me. 3 I hear a rebuke that dishonors me    and my understanding inspires me to reply. 4 Do you not know that it has been from old,    since mankind was put on earth, 5 that the triumph of the wicked is short    and the joy of the godless is but for a moment? 6 Though his pride reaches to the heavens,    and his head touches the clouds, 7 he perishes forever like his own dung.    Those who have seen him will say,    ‘Where is he?’ 8 Like a dream, he flies away    and they cannot find him; like a vision of the night,    he is chased away. 9 The eye that saw him will not see him again;    his place will look on him no more. 10 His children must recompense the poor;    his own hands must give back his wealth. 11 His bones were full of his youthful vigor    but it will lie down with him in the dust. 12 Though evil is sweet in his mouth,    though he hides it under his tongue, 13 though he cannot bear to let it go    and holds it in his mouth, 14 his food turns sour in his stomach;    it becomes the venom of serpents within him. 15 He swallows riches and vomits them up;    God empties it out of his stomach. 16 He sucks the poison of serpents;    fangs of a viper kill him. 17 He will not look at streams,    rivers flowing with honey and butter. 18 He gives back what he toiled for without swallowing it; he will not enjoy the riches of his trade. 19 For he has oppressed and abandoned the poor. He has seized a house he did not build. 20 For he knows no satisfaction from his greed,    he cannot save himself by his desires. 21 Nothing remains for him to devour;    therefore his prosperity will not last. 22 In the fullness of his plenty, he will be distressed; the full force of misery will come upon him. 23 While he is filling his belly,    He will send the anger of His wrath against him,    and rain it down it on him, on his flesh. 24 Though he flees from an iron weapon,    a bronze bow pierces him through. 25 He pulls and it comes out of his back,    the gleaming point out of his liver. Terrors come upon him! 26 Total darkness waits for his treasures;    A fire not fanned will devour him;    it will consume what is left in his tent. 27 The heavens will expose his iniquity;    the earth will rise up against him. 28 A flood will carry off his house,    rushing waters on the day of His wrath. 29 Such is the wicked man’s lot from God,    the heritage appointed to him by God.” — Job 20 | Tree of Life Version (TLV) Tree of Life Translation of the Bible. Copyright © 2015 by The Messianic Jewish Family Bible Society. Cross References: Genesis 18:8; Numbers 11:18; Numbers 11:33; Deuteronomy 28:31; Deuteronomy 31:28; Deuteronomy 32:24; 2 Samuel 11:12; 2 Samuel 22:35; Job 2:11; Job 4:11; Job 4:20; Job 5:5; Job 7:8; Job 8:8; Job 8:12-13; Job 15:21; Job 16:13; Job 18:11; Job 19:3; Job 21:1; Job 21:23-24; Job 24:2; Job 27:17; Psalm 21:9; Psalm 109:11; Ecclesiastes 5:13; Isaiah 14:13-14; Jeremiah 13:25

[kdmiller55]

The Greatest Gift of All

1 Then Job answered the Lord and said: 2 “I know that you can do all things,     and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. 3 ‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’ Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,     things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. 4 ‘Hear, and I will speak;     I will question you, and you make it known to me.’ 5 I had heard of you by the…

[preacherpollard]

Active Listening and Empathy: Job's Friends and Their Failures

Brent Pollard One notices how frequently Job dismisses his “friends” as poor comforters when reading Job. This accusation is not surprising, given that Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar were all involved in Satan’s trial of Job. However, the devil took advantage of an all-too-common human flaw: a lack of active listening skills. Job’s companions were more interested in displaying their wisdom than…

[tom4jc]

Job 20:4-5 Wicked Victory Will Not Endure

Do you not know of this of old, since man was placed on earth, that the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite is but for a moment? Job 20:4-5 Throughout the entire world people are celebrating triumphs and victories every day. People are excited about what they are accomplishing. Some of these things are individual accomplishments, while others are corporate or even…

[cmariottini]

Job and His Friend Zophar

Job and His Friend Zophar

Job and His Friendsby Ilya Repin (1869) The dialogue of Job with his friends shows that instead of being his comforters, Job’s friends were heartless and cruel to him. At the end of his dialogue with Bildad, Job pleaded with his friends, “Have pity on me, have pity on me, O you my friends” (Job 19:21). The reason Job asked his friends to show compassion was because, as Job said, “the hand of God…

[puppianqueen]

unfinished 3DS theme collection

[digi-log-conversation]

https://www.zophar.net/random-music

take the random zophar's domain challenge! discover some new vgm!!

i got Fantasy Golf PangYa Portable and if you know anything about PangYa you already know it's gonna be good:

if you don't like what you get, feel free to roll again.

[never-obsolete]

Zophar's Domain March 2001

[darksteel-relic]

Spotify Wrapped? Nah, never used Spotify.

Catch me on Zophar's Domain listening to game soundtracks that never left Japan.

[bestworstcase]

a present, for you- another salem meme! (also ironically while rewatching this episode to find a good enough screenshot i thought of salem as cain while listening to the brothers telling her about her curse; but i'm not actually a christian so you probably know what possible allusions she could have better than me)

HRGDHSJCJ

oh the less said about the christian perspective on job the better <3

BUT LISTEN

LIIIIISTENNNNN

the book of job begins with the deity and the satan making a wager on the matter of job’s faith, because the deity points him out to the satan like ‘isn’t my servant job the most righteous man alive’ and the satan goes ‘of course he is, you’ve given him a charmed life, take back your blessings and see how long it takes him to curse your name’ and the deity is like ‘bet.’

so the narrative conceit here is the deity gives the satan free rein to torment job so as to reveal whether his faith is true or not: all of his wealth (livestock) is brutally wiped out or stolen by raiders who put most of his household to the sword, all ten of his children are killed, and finally he’s struck with a debilitatingly painful affliction. then his wife tells him to curse god and die and several of his friends come to sit with him in his ABJECT MISERY and that’s the end of the prologue.

the narrative proper is largely a series of discourses between job and his friends on the subject of whether or not he Deserved This.

his friends (eliphaz, bildad, zophar, and elihu) hold a belief in the absolute justness and rightness of the deity which demands that job’s suffering is either punishment for some grievous wrongdoing or else discipline meant to teach him something important.

job’s position can be summed up as “fuck you, there is nothing i could possibly have done to deserve this, i am being unfairly persecuted and because NONE OF YOU ASSHOLES BELIEVE ME I WILL MOUNT A LAWSUIT AGAINST GOD TO PROVE MY INNOCENCE”

and i just—

quotations are from edward greenstein’s excellent translation (read it it fucks)

JOB!

[3:20–22] Why give light to one in travail?

Or life to those bitter of spirit?—

Those waiting for death, but there is none,

Though they dig for it more than for treasure!

Those singing for joy at the mouth of the tomb,

Who are glad to be reaching the grave.

JOB!!

[7:17–18] What is a mortal that you treat him as important?

Why do you pay him any mind,

Take account of him each morning,

Test him every minute?

[19] Why can’t you just look away from me,

Let go for just a swallow of spit?

[20] If I’ve sinned, what can I do to you,

O Watcher of Humankind?

Why have you made me your target?

How could I be a burden to you?

[21] Why can’t you pardon my transgression,

Commute my punishment?

For I’ll soon be lying in the dirt—

And when you seek me, I’ll be gone.

JOB!!!

[19:21] I am innocent—I care not for my self;

I’m fed up with my life.

[22] It is all the same.

And so I declare:

The innocent and the guilty he brings to (the same) end.

SCREAMING CRYING THROWING UP

[10:1] My entire being despises my life.

I would prepare a complaint on my behalf,

I would speak in the bitterness of my being;

[2] I would say to Eloah: “Do not condemn me!

Let me know of what you accuse me!

[3] Does it do you any good to do wrong?

To reject the effort of your hands?

While you shine favor on the schemes of the wicked?

[4–5] Have you eyes that are of flesh?

Do you see as a mortal sees?

Are your days like the days of a mortal?

Are your years like those of a man?

[6–7] When you go looking for my crime,

And investigate my sin,

You know very well I am not guilty—

But no one can rescue from your hand!

[8–9] Your hands formed me and made me,

Put me together—then destroyed me!

Mind now, it is you who made me like clay,

And will return me to the dust!

I WILL TAKE MY FLESH IN MY TEETH

[13:13] Keep silent before me, so that I may speak—

Whatever may come upon me!

[14–15] I will take my flesh in my teeth,

And I will place my life-breath in my hand.

Though he slay me, I will no longer wait—

I will accuse him of his ways to his face!

SO YOU OBLITERATE A MORTAL’S HOPE

[14:18–19] And yet, a cliff will fall and crumble;

A mountain will be moved from its place;

Rocks are worn down by water;

A torrent sweeps away the earth’s dust;

So do you obliterate a mortal’s hope.

[20] You assault him continually—and he passes on;

You disfigure him—and then you dispatch him.

AUGH!!!

[16:6] If I speak out, my pain will not be spared.

But if I desist, how will it leave me?

[7] By now he has worn me down;

You have devastated my entire company.

[8] You have shriveled me, and this has become a stigma;

My gauntness stands up and testifies against me.

[9] As his anger rages, he strikes a hostile pose;

He gnashes his teeth at me;

My enemy sharpens his eyes at me.

[10] People’s mouths gape at me,

They strike my cheeks to shame me;

They all form gangs against me.

I JUST—

[19:21] Have compassion, compassion, you my friends!

For the hand of Eloah has afflicted me.

[22] Why do you like El persecute me?

Why can’t you get your fill of my flesh?

HE SWEARS OVER AND OVER HE ISNT LYING

[27:3–4] So long as there is life-breath within me,

And in my nostrils Eloah’s spirit,

I swear that my lips will speak nothing corrupt,

And my tongue will utter no deceit.

JOB!!!!

[30:26–28] For I hoped for good, but there came bad;

I expected light, but there came darkness,

My insides roil and can’t be still;

I’ve been greeted by days of affliction.

I walk in gloom without a sun;

In the assembly I stand and cry out.

SORRY I LITERALLY CANNOT READ JOB WITHOUT BECOMING DERANGED. (BUT DO YOU SEE. WHERE I AM GETTING THE SALEM CONNECTION)

anyway in chapter 30 job makes an oath of his innocence and (after a very! lengthy! interjection from elihu) the deity turns up in chapter 38 to answer job’s lawsuit by going, in essence, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? I’M GOD! whereupon job is literally like

[40:3] Up spoke Job to YHWH and he said:

[4–5] Lacking respect, how can I answer you?

My hand I place over my mouth.

I have spoken once and I will not repeat;

Twice—and I will (speak) no more.

“ANSWER MY FUCKING QUESTION IM NOT GOING TO REPEAT MYSELF”

who else is doing it like job

then the deity goes LOOK AT THESE AWESOME CREATURES I MADE. CAN YOU TAME THE LEVIATHAN, JOB? HUH? EVEN GODS TREMBLE BEFORE HIM

and then—well the standard translation reads job’s final statement as repentance but this is notoriously a difficult passage, and as a matter of narrative and the context of the chapter as a whole i think greenstein’s reading makes considerably more sense—anyway job goes:

[42:1] Up spoke Job to YHWH and he said:

[2] I have known you are able to do all;

That you cannot be blocked from any scheme.

[3] “Who is this hiding counsel without knowledge?”

Truly I’ve spoken without comprehending—

Wonders beyond me that I do not know.

[4] “Hear now and I will speak!

I will ask you, and you help me know!”

[5] As a hearing by the ear I have heard you,

And now my eye has seen you.

[6] That is why I am fed up;

I take pity on “dust and ashes!”

(in 42:2 job is echoing the language the deity uses in genesis 11:6 in reference to the builders of the tower of babel; ‘dust and ashes’ is an epithet for wretched humanity and also occurs in chapter 30.)

I TAKE PITY ON DUST AND ASHES.

WHO IS DOING IT LIKE JOB

imagine being so DONE that you have the wherewithal to be scathingly sarcastic TO GOD’S FACE

and then the deity praises his honesty, scolds his friends for bleating platitudes instead of speaking the truth, and restores everything that was taken from job and more THE END.

/lies down

read job. theodicy of all time

one day i am going to calm down about job enough to finish my actual. coherent salem-as-job screed instead of just firehosing out half the passages that make me DERANGED but DO YOU SEE. DO YOU SEEEEEEEEEEE

horrific torment at the hands of divine beings for the pettiest of reasons. unspeakable anguish. isolation and exile! desolation! absolute certainty that his suffering is cruel and unjust! utter scorn for deceit and falsehood! he cannot rest because the deity will not let him die no matter how he begs for death! his wife his friends his community all turn against him, repulsed by his agony! he sues god!! he tells god i hear you, i see you, i feel fucking sorry for all of us who mean nothing to you!!!

[marlowe1-blog]

The Book of Job Chapter 20

Zophar the Naamathite really isn't listening

After Job is practically pleading with his friends to look at him, pity him and admit that he is maybe possibly not the wicked man who deserves to see his children die and his health go (because this isn't the Netflix version of Fall of the House of Usher), you'd think that they'd respond with some sympathy, maybe a different tact.

Nope.

Remember the Red Letter Media videos on the prequels and how in The Phantom Menace there should be some emotional impact from Quigon Jin dying but instead they go back to the well-choreographed flipping instead? Yeah, that's what this chapter feels like.

Because Zophar CLAIMS that he feels the need, the desire, the compulsion to speak and he's even a little insulted by Job's reproof. And then he just goes on with the same bullshit theme about how the ways of the wicked are fleeting.

Like seriously Bildad was a dumbshit for responding to Job with evidence that he was only listening to Eliphaz but Zophar is the king of the dumbshits because no matter how beautiful and how poetic he sounds when he's talking about how the wicked will suffer no matter how much they seem to be prospering, he's not fucking listening to Job.

Reminds me of how William S. Burroughs wrote about how everyone talks but never listens so they should just cut out the middle man and record themselves talking. So they can have fights between their recorded arguments. They can go to parties with tape recorders. Sure you might think of something new to say but you can always go to the bathroom and record something new.

Really ruined parties for me. For at least a couple months.

Now that said, there's some really cool imagery here. The food in his bowels becoming asps is a particularly neat one. Basically, it's the same theme of the wealthy sinner who reaches the heights and then disappears (I guess this was before they could put their names on buildings and have Prager U say how they were awesome). He flies away like a dream and his children end up poor. Or they ingratiate themselves with the poor which I guess means they are trying to seem poor? I don't think it refers to the philanthropy where rich people try to look like they are generous when they are not paying their taxes.

Eventually he just gives away his money and dies and he will see that his life is ruined because he oppressed the poor.

I wonder if this is some resentment against Job for when he was rich. Like the current meme about how there are no good billionaires. The fact that Job was wealthy meant that there were others who lost. But this is before capitalism. Still there were other methods of hoarding resources.

Either way, this is Job's friend. Seriously, what the hell dude.

But maybe he's talking about the wealthy wicked that isn't Job. Like he's trying to say that everything is fair. No really, it is fair.

The ending of this bit seems interesting. Like "When he has all his fill, the shit will come" is a fascinating line since one truism is that if you aren't satisfied, nothing is enough. We cackle at the wealthy who can afford housing, food, entertainment without ever checking their bank account or credit line when they still feel poor, but it's still an issue.

But once he's satisfied everything will come down. Bronze arrows and blades through his guts. He will burn and heaven will expose him. Earth will rise up against him. Look, the rich guy is going to have some shit happen to him. Zophar seems to have been thinking of what will happen to the wickedly wealthy for a long time.

Which I guess is fair. Ask your average liberal "what do you want to see happen to Trump" and I'm sure that imagination will take over as long as you keep letting them speak. Also the Koch Brothers. Hell, the rightwingers are freaking out over George Soros so hating the rich is a fun game for everyone.

And of course, Zophar is not even talking to Job. He's talking to himself and having a fun time imagining the fate of the wicked. Do not do this at home.

I noted that the first chapters when his friend sit silent with him were the basis for sitting shiva. This is what you do NOT do when you come to a shiva call. Or any furneral. Really don't go "hey I know your loved one is dead...the wicked will die in a lot of nasty ways and let me tell you all about it."

[mybeautifulchristianjourney]

Truly You are the people with whom Wisdom itself will Perish!

1 Then Job replied:

2 “Doubtless you are the only people who matter,    and wisdom will die with you! 3 But I have a mind as well as you;    I am not inferior to you.    Who does not know all these things?

4 “I have become a laughingstock to my friends,    though I called on God and he answered—    a mere laughingstock, though righteous and blameless! 5 Those who are at ease have contempt for misfortune    as the fate of those whose feet are slipping. 6 The tents of marauders are undisturbed,    and those who provoke God are secure—    those God has in his hand.

7 “But ask the animals, and they will teach you,    or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; 8 or speak to the earth, and it will teach you,    or let the fish in the sea inform you. 9 Which of all these does not know    that the hand of the Lord has done this? 10 In his hand is the life of every creature    and the breath of all mankind. 11 Does not the ear test words    as the tongue tastes food? 12 Is not wisdom found among the aged?    Does not long life bring understanding?

13 “To God belong wisdom and power;    counsel and understanding are his. 14 What he tears down cannot be rebuilt;    those he imprisons cannot be released. 15 If he holds back the waters, there is drought;    if he lets them loose, they devastate the land. 16 To him belong strength and insight;    both deceived and deceiver are his. 17 He leads rulers away stripped    and makes fools of judges. 18 He takes off the shackles put on by kings    and ties a loincloth around their waist. 19 He leads priests away stripped    and overthrows officials long established. 20 He silences the lips of trusted advisers    and takes away the discernment of elders. 21 He pours contempt on nobles    and disarms the mighty. 22 He reveals the deep things of darkness    and brings utter darkness into the light. 23 He makes nations great, and destroys them;    he enlarges nations, and disperses them. 24 He deprives the leaders of the earth of their reason;    he makes them wander in a trackless waste. 25 They grope in darkness with no light;    he makes them stagger like drunkards. — Job 12 | New International Version (NIV) Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® All rights reserved worldwide. Cross References: Genesis 7:11; 1 Kings 12:6; Job 3:15; Job 5:14; Job 6:30; Job 9:4; Job 9:24; Job 11:20; Job 13:1-2; Job 17:4; Job 17:10; Job 19:9; Psalm 107:40; Psalm 123:4; Isaiah 41:20; Daniel 2:20; Matthew 3:4; Matthew 9:24; Acts 17:26; Acts 17:28; Romans 1:20; 1 Corinthians 1:20; 1 Corinthians 4:5; Revelation 3:7

[kdmiller55]

Show up, Shut Up, and Lift Up

1 Then Elihu answered and said: 2 “Hear my words, you wise men,     and give ear to me, you who know; 3 for the ear tests words     as the palate tastes food. 4 Let us choose what is right;     let us know among ourselves what is good. 5 For Job has said, ‘I am in the right,     and God has taken away my right; 6 in spite of my right I am counted a liar;     my wound is incurable, though I am…

[tom4jc]

Job 11:7-8 Giving False Counsel

Can you search out the deep things of God? Can you find out the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than heaven–what can you do? Deeper than Sheol–what can you know? Job 11:7-8 There is always someone who has an opinion about what another person is going through. Many love to counsel that person with giving their opinion on how to deal with whatever situation that they are found to be in.…