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yuridovewing · 7 months

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As a fellow Dovewing lover, it's frustrating how the fandom watered her down into a whiny brat who never cared about Ivypool. I mean, seriously? Not only did Dovewing care about her sister (reacting in horror when Lionblaze, her own mentor and Jayfeather are willing to potentially sacrifice Ivypool's safety by employing her as her spy instead of trying to get her out of the Dark Forest's clutches, hiding a thorn in her nest to cover for her scarring from her training).

Heck, even the scene where she tries to feed Ivypool her catch during a hunting patrol was demonized because 'she was trying to make Ivypool break the code like SHE does, as if it doesn't matter' and because she got upset when Ivypool started arguing with her! But you guys said she didn't care, right? Plus, people act like being forced into a prophecy is something you should be grateful for, as if it didn't irreparably change her close relationship with her sister? As if Lionblaze and Jayfeather didn't still keep her out of the loop (and for all the fussing they made about keeping it a secret, Lionblaze confesses his power to Cinderheart and Jayfeather doesn't even care).

Meanwhile Nightheart is angry he isn't orange and hates his mom for being exiled and the whole world has to stop for him. 🤪 And Bramblestar is simply so tortured by having an evil father, the only choice is to train with him and his evil half-brother and hide this from his wife! (But remember, it's bad when that witch Squirrelflight hides the parentage of the three from him, even when Blackstar and Leopardstar were still around after being complicit in the torture and killing of halfclan cats.) Why are these male characters sympathized with, even when they actively harm people (Nightheart forcing himself into Sunbeam's life by lying to everyone about being her mate without even asking her if she would be fine with that beforehand), Bramblestar (we all know what he does), but when Dovewing or any other female character is upset, people freak out and call them whiny brats or abusive for (checks notes) asking her partner if he loves her anymore after they argued multiple times in a book. Really makes you think! (Sorry this is so long, you just have based opinions!)

dovewing being characterized as this flighty airheaded vain popular girl stereotype in fanon is like. one of those biggest "we didnt actually read the books" things in the fandom. like theres so much fanart where shes grinning and giggling over the prophecy and shes besties with the trio and shes got preferential treatment, and then in the actual books shes basically the autistic kid no one actually likes. people really, REALLY overexaggerate that one scene where she snaps at ivypaw and brags. (and i dont wanna shit on amvs but i am forever side eying how the animation community handled dove back in the day. more than one person animated her getting murdered. normal.)

i do think its gotten better recently at least. but wow does it feel like at least one person on the writing team has a bone to pick

(also awww thank you <3 no need to be sorry i love getting stuff in my inbox)

#it does also feel so insidious to me just how long the bramblesquirrel conflict was painted as ''equally kind of wrong''#the ppl who put words in squilfs mouth sometimes which. btw ill get to that when i read the book #and tbf part of it is that sometimes abuse isnt as easy to spot if youre primed to the mainstream version of it #like. bramble isnt a born evil wifebeater everyone can see coming from a mile away. hes a complex guy with his own insecurities #and his own goals and people he openly cares about. and even in some fanon stuff i see ppl kinda erase that part of him #(which i wont pretend im above- ive been trying to walk that line myself)#and that doesnt match how abusers are usually percieved by the public. or in this very series.#like. the main excuse for clear sky is literally ''hes sad his sister died and tried to save her! no one changes THAT much''#anyone can be an abuser. you could be an abuser. i could be an abuser. that doesnt mean that we ARE but we are capable of it #and the thing that catches ppl off guard is that abusers are really good at hiding who they are and theyre often charming #i often hear this account of abuse that goes something like ''my parent abused me but no one believed me bc theyre nice in public''#you dont know whats going on behind closed doors. and ik this is about funny kitties at the end of the day but its quite telling #so... yeah bramble has his nice moments. hes got his GREAT moments even. i love his relationship with his mom for example #but those moments dont mean that hes not capable of being worse. of being a monster to his loved ones #its why squilf keeps getting sucked back in. hes not a one dimensional asshole. hes capable of being kind to her.#and thats what makes his disgusting moments hit so much harder #wow ok i got off topic in the tags but yknow. idk i got feelings abt this matter as someone who's experienced toxic relationships

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upsidedowngrass · 1 year

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reading your and jaspers posts about bryce with silent admiration because im too scared to contribute but i really love bryce so much hes my girlfriend and my husband and i like hearing u guys talk about him because youre Right. especially as someone who struggled from grief and trauma and being abused i think bryce's case interests me more than any of the other characters (even though liam is my favorite, and it says a lot because i find all of them interesting) because there is so much to him. i doubt he has processed a single thing about what happened. i think stellas death was recent too honestly, within the last few years at least, and he copes by... not coping. burying himself in work and drinking in the hopes to forget about it. not even to mention the fact that in episode 7 it showed him driving home drunk personally i feel he was past the point of caring to the point of engaging in risky/dangerous behaviors (this speaks for itself, i dont think i need to say why). i think that the plane impacted him so much that within those 7 months after leaving he got his shit together. i cant speak for if hes totally sober or not but at the very least he doesn't drink as much as he used to and i doubt he's putting himself in danger anymore. to be honest i think bryce is one of the characters who has changed the most because of the plane, which makes him being rejoined all the more interesting to me. im probably just making shit up but i like to read into it a little more than "bryce and liam were getting along but now theyre separated and liam has to fix it oh no". sorry this ask is kind of word vomit im not in the headspace to tidy it up but i hope you get what i mean

i think if one had continued for longer than it did it would have been interesting to explore bryce finally accepting and coming to terms with his past (him not seeing his childhood home in the wr anymore kind of representing this). i love bryce and he deserves to heal

TY!!!!!!! im glad my thoughts warrant admiration to you :D!!!!!!!!!!! (i will say tho that every time uve ever posted YOURE thoughts i am like ohhhhh.... ur SO RIGHT. i think u have some of the BEST interpretations of the one characters ive seen!!!!!)

(talked SOOO so much .so there is a readmore :) )

brcye really IS such an interesting character???? ik ive said it before but i AM biased towards protagonists so i usually focus on liam but like ...... bryce really IS probably one of the more. indepth ? characters in one in terms of like. background and how he Acts. i think ALL of teh characters are written really incredibly but i think, given how much of his bg is clarified (esp in contrast with how little is shown of the other characters lives pre-one) his motives, personality, emotions all end up being SUPER super elaborate and i REALLY love how he was written ??

(that said i think the reason he IS elaborated on sm is bc like. one doesnt elaborate on character backgrounds like MOST of the time. even charlotte is mostly left up to interpretation, bc one is more about the HOW people respond rather than WHAT made them respond that way. but charlotte and bryce are both outliers, and bryce ESPECIALLY so. because both obviously have Things they havent worked through properly, but bryce is directly just. Living in it. its the fact that he WONT acknowledge the actual Things that hapepned enough to heal that warrants the elaboration. while the other characters stop acknowledging ANYTHING about their lives , save for charlotte, who gradually works out her issues themselves, because THATS whats effecting her, bryce is CONSTANTLY just. he Needs to go back, but his problems ARE about what happened, and the fact that his life outside of the plane was what MATTERED to him, but that even then, he just Wouldnt acknowledge that life when he Needed to. idk if that makes sense but ohhh i think about the decision to elaborate on some characters and to not on others bc it feels Important)

hes so. he mirrors all of the contestants in some ways, but he mirrors amelia a LOT in that both of them respond to trauma by Setting It Aside. like That Trauma Cant Affect Me If I Dont Look At It. like. ur right bryce has NOT processed ANY of his trauma. which like it makes SENSE bc. it prob feels so much easier to him to not think about it by drinking instead, because its a Lot to think about. its a Lot to come to terms with. but bc he WONT acknowledge it but its still AFFECTING him he just gets More and More miserable (the detail about him driving home drunk and not even caring is so. :( )

what IS one of the most. compelling? aspects of his character to me is the way he responded to Everything after getting eliminated. bc it just feels So Real. because he IS healing, not completely, and not in the best way, but he clearly like. started putting SO much work into improving his life??? (the detail of him finally getting an end table for his bed instead of just... using a cardboard box ALWAYS gets to me. and that + the fact that the photo of stella is put up makes it seem like. THATS what was in that box. he LITERALLY started Unpacking thigns. its like poetry to me.) because it IS hard, and i think hes still putting things to the side, shoving the trauma from the plane to the side now instead of all his other grief and trauma. and the removal of the cans from his room yknow?? that hes getting up for work on time now?? its like. yeah i agree idk if hes necessarily SOBER yet but he really does seem like hes working really hard

its not perfect, but its BETTER and it feels. correct?? (and tbh? trying to brush off the plane as a dream isnt even teh worst thing he couldve done with that, i think, bc reasonably what WAS he supposed to do w that experience?? i dont think there WAS a good answer) bc the plane was a whole new kind of trauma. and i think surface level, one would THINK hed get WORSE after further trauma but like. i think he DID in some ways but in the ways that actually affected how he acknowledged and responded to his pre-existing trauma DID get better bc, as he puts it, hed Thrown his life away before, and didnt want to do it again. bc this time, he very well couldve died. and while he was on the plane, being home, on earth was SO much better than the plane, and it recontextualized Everything. hell, maybe after that, the earth finally felt Less daunting, like somewhere he Wanted to be, because for once, he WANTED to be back, and rationalizing That and the fact that he got Lucky, that something Worse couldve just full on Killed Him Forever really DID mean he didnt WANT the worse to come, at least not as much as before. but that meant he HAD to start actually Working on improving things, and i think he may not have Intended to acknowledge Worse things, but simply because the things he had to do to improve his life, like drinking less, making his house more Livable, they all Forced him to think about things More. hes still certainly not thinking about them as much as he Should, hes still not Processing things, but hes Heading in the right direction . he really was SO changed by ONE

and then liam showing up forces him, once again, to think about something he tried to push to the side. aaaaaaaandd then he rejoins and its so. it feels thematically fitting and IS so so SO interessting. because for once in his life hes REALLY facing his trauma head on. but then is brought straight back into it. and i need to think about that aspect more bc those thoughts are a bit less Focused than my other thoughts but given how complex his writing is after he gets OUT, its. SO interesting to think about how being BACK affects him

esp bc like. him starting ep 18 Pissed Off- which historically his responses to trauma are to either just Be Shocked, as depicted a LOT in ep 14, or to get Very Vocally pissed, as shown through the first half of s1, esp ep 6, and ep 11, and ep 13, and ep 18. ive seen it written as 'he doesnt have anywhere to direct the sheer amnt of STRESS and fear so he just. ends up yelling at people bc what else CAN he do' and i think thats?? probably fairly accurate. i dont think hes as Constantly Irritable and Irrationally Angry as fanon presents him , bc it tends to be. excessive. but he DOES get reasonably angry in response to stress !!! i always think abt how his body language in the 'credits' scene of ep 6 look like hes yelling at airy. and im. lays on the ground. i dont even know if thats ever as much 'just anger' as it is Fear and it FUCKS ME UP

but the way i see it, that ties to ep 18 a LOT. because he was really Getting better. hell, what he thought was the WORST that could happen HAPPENED (dying) but he. came out OKAY? its like he was being forced to think about and work through his trauma and he survived and was ok. but being sent back is like. 'oh god i did that all for nothing.' but i think it also sort of?? serves as the Last Push for him to really, REALLY acknowledge the plane (which is why it makes sense so thematically for him to be the rejoiner. he WAS the only contestant whod Chosen to ignore it all. but that has nothing to do with the plane, he cant choose if the plane ignores Him.) past talking about its affects, how its affected people. because after everything hed worked toward, hes Back. hes back, and everyone else is STILL HERE. liam had said they were all still There but seeing them there is a whole other thing. hed SEEN the effects of making it out after 7 months. but he never saw what it was like to still BE there after all that time. and bryce CARES about them (fanon sometimes treats him as if he is a bit. coldhearted? but i think people misattribute him being unhappy with liam as him not caring. i think the problem is that he maybe cares too much, and was affected a LOT, but didnt and doesnt know how to handle that. so he WANTS to ignore it, because it was all he could do, and haaving to backtrack on his haphazard healing from the plane is. highly daunting and uncommfortable and terrifying. thats not being cold though, thats VERY different) and now he HAS to acknowledge Everything, has to be a part of it Again. and i think its a combination of 'liam was here for 7 months after we all thought itd only be a few weeks. Anything could happen. who knows how long ill be here for?' and 'liam didnt have anything when he came back. will I have anything when i come back?? will i have worked so, so hard to heal and fix my life for Nothing?' and 'i dont WANT to be here again.' and 'oh my god all of them Really Really Are Here. Theyve been here the whole time.' and i think all that culminates in an appropriate amount of horror, and that prompts him to do what hes STARTED doing, which was All He Can. and hes pissed off cus hes terrified, so he spurs everyone into pulling out the plug. and then. it doesnt work. it doesnt work and thats the LAST of what he had, and i think iirc hes the LAST one to close his eyes afterwards. because hed BEEN off the plane, hes the one of them who had any hope to give them anymore. and it didnt work

(i also think a lot about how it mustve felt seeing the contestants all so. resigned. because bryce was like that before all this, but ever since one began he was stubborn, and didnt WANT to give up. and i think finding out that these people youd seen try so, so hard just to Handle Any Of This be SO resigned would be. so fucked up. he knew amelia when she was so determined to leave, and while charlotte seems a bit saddened by her resignation, bryce was there BEFORE that happened. he wasnt there like liam or charlotte was to see it gradually develop, and to develop that despair alongside them. all hes seen is that amelia was so determined. and that he may not have known her THAT well before, he knows shes different. he knows she Gave Up and like. GOD. and also i think abt how he mustve Felt seeing the plug for the first time because ehs the only one of them who hadnt seen it before (given its likely all the other characters had, since they casually refer to it). and given the short time frame between him getting there, and the contestants trying to pull the plug? it almost seems that that was like. the last straw. and ive never posted it but i once drew stuff abt it bc. the damage to it is noticable. and i think hes already aware liam was fucked up, but this is like. a tangible, permanent record of that on the plane. and he cares about liam, and has been grappling with all the things liams told him, but thats. thats something he can See. And i think it all of it culminates in him deciding that what hes been avoiding is doing Soemthing about all this, because before he couldnt, and then it was. an awful idea to, and then he didnt have many choices BUT to help. but now theres hardly anything to do, but he has to try. he doesnt want to give up. and it makes me soooooooooooooooooo. head in hands.)

anyway that was a LONG tangent the point is. YEAH. i think rejoining would be. very very significant for his character i dont think youre making shit up its DEFINENTLY a topic w a lot of things to discuss about it

but god. yeah it wouldve been SO nice to see him come to terms with everything hed been through before one. i think the show purposefully included what it did and ended when it did because it makes more sense thematically for it to go unresolved, because the point was that NOTHING was able to be resolved nicely because unfortunately, many things are Out Of Their Control. things COULDVE resolved almost perfect but enough things went wrong at just the right (or more fitting, wrong) time for all of that to not work. i think him no longer seeing the suburbs may have signalled more that maybe, just maybe, he could Do something to help the other contestants even if HE was Dead, that now he finally HAS a goal, if that makes sense (though i think even in the timeline of the series it still wouldve taken way longer for him to process everything Fully, they WERE only in the waiting room for probably about a day) but the idea of finally seeing the waiting room as it is bc hed finally worked through everything .... man.............. man

ik ive already said it though but i DO think it is sooooo so possible for him to heal post canon. im a firm believer that no matter what, at LEAST bryce and ameliaa get home (liam and charlotte have more room for error but i DO generally interpret the ending as them both getting home too, theres just less room for things to go wrong w amelia and bryce). and i think after everything? hed be able to heal. it would SUCK but i think hes, shockingly, in a better place Logistically for things to improve, because he has a support system, he has what hed already worked on in those 7 months, he has so much to aim for. it would be rough and take long but i think ultimately? hed be able to heal :) and its what he deserves

#ask #got SO rambly in this answer . this ask made me think SO MUCH #man tho. the theme of people responding to Trauma in one is legitimately so.#it feels so significant and i think it was done SO well #like. fun fact but ep 6 was what REALLY sold me on the show when i first watched it #which SOUNDS morbid but it was the post credits scene that Got me #because it jsut. sounded so much like how trauma is discussed irl. when liam like #says 'i was riding home on my bike when it happened' i remember i was so. Ohhh My God #bc i was. oh this show is just. having characters naturally respond to and discuss trauma #like it wasnt just an element of the series anymore it clicked that the show was developing a literary THEME and it made me sooooo emotiona #like it esp hit hard bc . discussing trauma is a LOT and seeing them Talk Abt It like that hit me so hard.#and to this day that scene is just so. emotionally impactful #AND sidenote its so. at that pt in the series nothing has been Revealed abt bryces life before one #but the fact that hed Been Through Shit Before makes the scene feel so important.#because bryce has been through a LOT of trauma already. and bc of that? of course hes the one talking to liam. because he *gets it.*#of course he talks about it so naturally. he may not have really worked through anything but he KNOWS this #and whether or not liams been through stuff before doesnt matter here. because this isnt something he knows how to live through #but bryce has experience with living through things. hes the only one able and willing to talk eith liam through it because he Gets it #and it makes me so. AUUUGHGG #alcohol #ask to tag #(also as silly as it is liam abruptly cutting the convo off to talk abt the grass is like. yeah. yeah #emotional convos with friends abt trauma can very often end abruptly for completely unrelated reasons #at least in my exp #which is prob bc eventually theres nothing TO say bc the topic sorta. speaks for itself?? and that feels like what happened in their convo #though i think liam prob ALSO mentions it bc. id imagine its unnerving to notice . like this place would just FEEL so abnormal #and it was prob on his mind bc the two of them were already talking abt fucked up things about the plane #and its a small detail but. a detail about the plane nonetheless)

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