#actuallyaapi

[system-of-a-feather]

hi!! back on my bullshit (asking for some resources if you have them and are willing to share)

would you mayhaps have some resources on non-western plurality? especially spiritual plurality but I'm curious about anything and everything

books, video essays, and other medias are very welcome too along with papers/scientific research !!

oop sorry it's a lot. also I'm 99% sure you replied to these kinds of asks multiple times I'm just not tumblr savvy (despite having been on tumblr 10+ years now)

thank you <3

@seasidewanderers

@seasidewanderers

God relatable about the "been on tumblr for 10+ years but still dont know how to use it well". I actually haven't really answered too many asks like this, at least not asking for resources and what not.

I do want to put a bit of a disclaimer about "non-western plurality" - at least from what I know from a more eastern perspective - a lot of "non-western plurality" does not actually really call itself plurality.

The concept of "plurality" in its self is a heavily western / european kind of concept, not because it only exists in those spaces, but because a lot of other spaces don't really make anything special of it so a name, community, label, etc is not exactly necessary or even particularly sensical. It's kind of like looking for "western singularity" or more accurately "western individualism". It's a bit redundant - at least in my personal perspective.

In a number of non-western cultures, the idea of having multiple selves and having that deep internal relationship isn't really anything too odd and I've heard a number of systems raised in those cultures or around cultures rooted in eastern philosophy that the people they mentioned having alters / parts / headmates to often responded POSITIVELY and casually to the concept because its generally just considered relatively normal if not a positive thing to engage with. The real question then becomes whether or not it counts as plurality or not and that's really up to the individual themselves.

It's a very western thing to really make a huge deal, spectacle and oddity out of experiencing oneself as multiple and honestly I think that can be kind of really well seen in a lot of eastern media with how much plural-adjacent themes are seen in non-DID and not-trying-to-be-DID ways. There is a large aspect of an external self and an internal self, a balancing of good and bad and opposing forces in a lot of Eastern Cultures both on religious, spiritual, philosophical, and just plain old cultural levels. Yin and Yang, Non-dualism, "Face", the general collectivist culture, Buddhism as a whole and deity yoga in particular.

Partially due to the social norms that tend to come with a highly collectivist culture and just the prominent foundational philosophies and spiritualities that are generally native to the area and the lack of a strong sense of individualism as seen in the west, it's extremely common to have strictly different modes for different situations and places as there is a strong level of conformity and respect that needs to be provided to specific locations in order to uphold the strong value of harmony that is valued heavily in collectivist cultures. People in these more collectivist cultures tend to really have to balance and make amends between these highly varied versions of themselves and so it isn't all too weird to be juggling notably different, changing and sometimes conflicting versions of selves; the version of you who is shaped to meet the communal needs and appeal / participate in sustaining harmony and the you that really fucking hates everyone here.

From talking with others who come from more eastern backgrounds, a thing we tend to kind of sigh and giggle at in the system community in terms of it being "extremely white / western" is just how overtly a lot of discussions on self, parts, and what not is EXTREMELY individualist and very much fundamentally built with a strong attachment to differentiation, defining yourself, labeling yourself, and drawing clear boxes around who you are to help understand, explore, and define your own identity. It's hard to really explain to those that are really deep into the western concept of individualism and haven't really looked into it and analyzed it, but as someone who is not exactly a fan of individualism and individualist perspectives, it's EXTREMELY loud and obvious in system communities.

And this is all a lot of preamble to really say there isn't going to really be "resources for non-western plurality" because its not anything particularly special in Eastern Cultures and cultures not built largely from a long running history of Christian / Catholic and maybe Abrahamic Roots (I don't know enough of about Islam or Judaism to say for sure but a lot of individualism does tend to stem from a cultural history and background with at least Christianity / Catholicism). Because it's not exactly special or anything particularly unique of a concept, most don't really label it or name it something or even really discuss it (also a symptom of collectivism and general Eastern cultures is not really discussing mental health or internal experiences, most of your experiences in these cultures are kept internally and dealt within yourself rather than with others) unless directly brought up by someone who DOES find it odd; ie usually a westerner or someone like me who is a first generation American from an eastern background.

So if you want "resources on non-western plurality" you won't find it looking for "plurality" as much as you would by looking into individualism vs collectivism and the cultural roots connecting to those concepts.

Of course there are also the more overt ones that talk about it, like Buddhism does because Buddhism largely serves as a way to try to teach people to find harmony within themselves AND the world to find and instill a sense of peace and serenity overall. That's added onto the fact that a lot of Buddhism is based on talking and discussing things so its an odd card out in a lot of eastern cultures in the sense they ACTIVELY like talking about how people experience themselves.

A lot of what I know comes from life experience, what I've been taught by my family and peers, and discussions with people who come from their own backgrounds; ie, most of what I know comes from anecdotal personal experience. Some I also know from some formal cultural responsivity / sensitivity / trauma informed care modules for work and during school, but most of it is honestly from personal experience and anecdotes.

Even so, I can provide some starting points to assist someone unfamiliar with the territory in investigating and learning a bit on topics relating to the normalization of plural-esque experiences in non-western cultures.

"The Concept of Self in Eastern and Western Philosophy" by Petar Radoev Dimkov is just an interesting run down of major philosophical branches of thought's perception of self

General Reading of Collectivism VS Individualism; I suggest searching up things regarding the clinical significance of understanding and acknowledging collectivism vs individualism when working with clients as well as the impact of those cultures on how one's self concept is experienced, developed and understood

General readings on the history of prominent eastern philosophies / religions (Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Hinduism, Shintoism, etc) and their impacts on eastern culture / their ideas and values on the self, particularly in relation to others

And honestly? I'd suggest on actually searching and reading into the Western views of self and reading where those views and values come from as well because it will 1) likely bring up juxapositions to eastern views and 2) Its hard to truly learn and understand ANOTHER perspective if you don't first really sit and consider your OWN perspective

A lot of people think the idea that "we are one person, a unique self" is a scientific fact and in heavily white / western spaces, the way that statement is treated as fact is a very frustrating thing to see. "We are one person, a unique self" is a BELIEF that is ingrained deeply into Western Society that its treated and considered a fact despite there not really being scientific evidence to support it. (I think it also has something to do with how much "belief" is associated with religion, at least in America, rather than an opinion on something that has little scientific backing)

A lot of western psychology is also built with the assumption of a single unique self, so genuinely I think the best starting point for a white / western person to start trying to learn and understand eastern views is to first do a DEEP dive into Individualism and the Philosophy and Belief that everyone is their singular unique self.

Cause it's only when you acknowledge your own beliefs and cultural background can you actually appreciate, respect, and acknowledge another's beliefs and cultural background.

(Also just in general, learning about philosophy and following some people who just enjoy discussing philosophy can really help as well. Philosophy is the father of Science for a reason afterall. I don't know too much about him as I don't really actively follow him so he might have some bad takes or some bad history that I don't know about so take this recommendation with a grain of salt, but I really have enjoyed listening to Alex O'Connor on youtube talk about philosophy. I'm pretty sure he also engages in a lot of philosophy and religion-related debates and I think hes an Atheist? But I don't watch those so I dont know. I've only really watched his "Taking Trolley Problems Too Seriously" videos and a few one offs when I just needed something in the background while drawing, but he does know a lot of philosophical perspectives and does juggle them well enough that I honestly don't know his personal beliefs and lowkey don't really want to XD Ps: Im always hesitant to recommend youtubers cause almost all youtubers are assumed probably assholes, dicks, or Into Weird Things until proven otherwise)

[system-of-a-feather]

I'd like to preface this with two points that I think are important to consider when reading my reply here. Also if I say "you" I'm not meaning **you specifically** it's just a hypothetical "you"

I don't think anyone should HAVE to do anything and I don't think anyone should be forcing any of their parts to do anything; recovery, healing, and improving yourself has to come at a pace that is sustainable and genuine to each individual and when you have complex trauma, I don't think you should have to focus on changing names if you are already overburdened with, you know, trauma and the more difficult meaty issues that comes with DID / OSDD; that said, people still should avoid using names of closed cultures - at least cultures that have explicitly asked for it to not be done. With that being said, just because you don't have to do anything because DID / OSDD is a lot, people are also allowed to be uncomfortable with the usage of a name from a closed culture.

I can only speak from experience of my own as a half Chinese person and from what I've heard from other Asian people - both singlets and systems - about names; I have very little knowledge on how names work outside of America and this extent

Disclaimers out of the way; I think the issue comes in two maybe three large reasons - at least when it comes to Asian names which I think I see happen the most often due to the introjects from anime, games, manga / manhwa, idols, dramas, etc.

Firstly, names in a lot of Asian cultures have a lot more cultural significance and relevance than white / western / American names do. Where a lot of names in more open / western cultures are typically just kind of a name that resonates / sounds right / feels right; a lot of Asian cultures have names carefully crafted by another person in the culture to specifically reference and highlight a certain ideas, concepts, and what not - both in the sounds of the characters chosen and the characters themselves. There's a lot of cultural influence and methodology to names and there is a large culture of those names ideally being GIVEN by someone within the culture to another; often parent to child, but not always.

That's a very short version of it, but even more short; Asian names mean a lot more in a cultural sense to people and the culture they come from than they do in western society. Much like you said, names are a large part of identity in Western society, but in more eastern cultures, not only are they a part of identity but it can often reflect culture, ancestry, history, etc. Often when people take on the names because they were introjected with it, you miss out on A LOT of the culture, history, and what not that goes into having been given that name and are thus not respecting, watering down, and using a complex cultural feature of a culture in a way that is Westernized; ie "just a part of how one identifies themselves" and not one inherently connected with the culture it comes from.

Secondly, history of racism, colonization, and assimilation. Ignoring the cultural aspects of the names, Eastern cultures ESPECIALLY the Asian American cultures of immigrants and children of immigrants have a long history of colonization and forced assimilation. A lot of this involves forced and imposed "Americanization" of people's names where a lot of people were DENIED their name in order to immigrate or as a part of their country's colonization. This has made the original and authentic names something that is a lot more personal and important to individuals that were previously forced to shed it, thus for western / white people - the people that forced us to shed them - to casually pick it up (because they like it or because its part of their identity) comes off as pretty insensitive to the history that these cultures have had.

These cultures were heavily repressed and attempted to be erased through assimilation so there is a large need to protect themselves from being further encroached on. White people claiming the names causes the social and cultural understanding of the names to be handed to people that don't know the culture and while small, still plays a role in the adulterating of asian cultures in western society.

On a personal level of experiences, it's also a history of the racism and frequent bullying / ostracization that living with an Asian name can present. I don't know how it currently is, but back when I was in elementary / middle / high school, if you had a not-white name, you were made fun of regardless of if they could pronounce it or not. Being Asian and having a name that was not standard white was a solid reason to be treated poorly, disrespected, and often bullied. My last name has ALWAYS been a point of teasing and disrespect. I've seen people that wanted to go by their Korean / Chinese name but have that denied either because 1) its too hard to be said or 2) people are too lazy to respect that and some have literally just assigned people I know generic white names like "Shawn"

With that in mind, the fact that a lot of Asian cultures literally can't have their own name taken seriously and respected - but a white / westerner can identify / say / claim the name and expect to be taken seriously / respected is both really depressing / sad and also a sign of a lot of white / western privilege.

Thirdly, and much less significantly, a lot of white / western people - even when trying their best - butcher the names in pronunciation (which is a common pet peeve, sore spot, and gripe due to the experiences listed above) and on a practical level, if you are a white person, look like a white person, and you tell me your name is Tohru Sakura (generic name not referencing anything) I will assume you are a genuine weeb and someone fetishizing / romanticizing Japanese culture which, I guess is the fourth point I was meaning to include somewhere but

Fourthly, a lot of eastern cultures are frequently fetishized in ways that are actively harmful may that be between how the fetishization of "oriental" women has promoted human trafficking and domestic violence in the attempt to get a "submissive exotic woman", the participation in the erasure of the cultures, and just all the really uncomfortable and dangerous situations that come with ANYONE being "fetishized"; and while the western obsession with anime, gatchas, idols, etc is not inherently "fetishization" it does often come with a lack of genuine care or insight to the originating cultures and often thus can be pretty objectifying. It's very important to understand the culture and aspects of the culture (like the name) beyond the context of just the media that is liked otherwise you walk the line of cultural appropriation.

As for the individual questions:

What about singlets who were given names that aren't from their race/culture/country/ethnicity. Are they culturally appropriating just by having those names they didn't choose to have?

If it was not given by someone within the culture, then yeah, kind of. I wouldn't hold THEM to the same standard of those that choose the name themselves or parts that split that choose to keep the name they have memories of because, psuedo memories or not aside, there is a large difference between someone who identifies with a name and having been raised with it.

I largely pity a white person with white parents who named them Tohru Sakura because that white person will experience a lot of the bullying and harm that actually Asian people had for having their name; arguably more because they will have to live with people judging them for their parent's cultural insensitivity.

In these cases, I would say yeah, the person has probably went through enough hell to have a right to the name if they don't want to change it; but I really don't think there are many white / westerners that were NOT raised by someone in the culture and were NOT raised in an environment heavy with that culture that are named that AND want to keep it.

I would also suggest to them to, that maybe they should find a name that is more suited to them because being a white person with an Asian name is not going to be something that is easy and judgement free (rightfully so)

I WOULD detest their parents however. I would assume their parents are pieces of shit. I would probably not want to meet or talk to their parents. I would pity and sympathize with them, because that is a cruel name to give your kid.

What makes having names from other cultures appropriation?

All of above; Names have cultural significance to Asian cultures, History of Racism, Colonialization, Assimilation and Bullying, History of Fetishization

How is someone having a name causing harm?

At the very minimum it is perpetuating the watering down of Asian cultures which is a long running and ongoing active process that white / western cultures have been doing for years which is one of the reasons a lot of Asian cultures are considered "closed" and why most Asians I know of are protective over their cultures.

At the extreme, its part of fetishization and ornientalism of Asians which can be deadly.

And at the end of the day, I think the most important thing is:

If a group of minorities that have a long history of being hurt, used, and oppressed by white / western standards ask a white / western person to respect their culture because something makes them feel encroached upon or disrespected, generally you should do your best to respect that, regardless of if it makes sense to you. Otherwise, generally you will find yourself being part of the problem and part of the negative history white / westerners have with minorities.

This might get be shot in the foot but can someone explain the argument that alters can only have names that match the body's ethnicity/culture/country of origin to me like I'm 3? I just. Don't get it. One of our core values is to be a forever student, so we are more than willing to learn and adjust here if we're wrong, but with the information we have this argument doesn't make sense to us.

I just don't see how a name is cultural appropriation. I definitely agree that like claiming that an alter in a white body is literally another race is appropriative, disrespectful, and flat out racist. No matter how you appear in headspace or how many pseudo memories you have, you will never experience that actuality of being that race. Claiming the experiences of minorities is obviously shitty.

I don't see how simply having a name from another culture is the same though. Just having a name is not equal to claiming that you are actually X ethnicity when you're not. As long as alters acknowledge that they are not a different race than the body and don't claim to be, what is the harm in letting them have the names that they have?

I just saw someone who was told that it didn't matter that their anime alter with a Japanese name already acknowledged that they aren't and never will be Japanese and that it didn't matter that that alter was strongly attached to their name and distressed by being forced to change their name. They were told they had to force the alter to change their name and that the alter would just get used to it.

It just.... Seems cruel to forcibly take people's names from them to me.

Also. What about singlets who were given names that aren't from their race/culture/country/ethnicity. Are they culturally appropriating just by having those names they didn't choose to have? Would the argument be that they HAVE to change their names when they're old enough to?

I still come back to forcibly taking people's names just seems cruel to me.

Names are big parts of our identities, whether they're chosen, given, or inherited from a source. I just don't think people should be forced to part with such a big part of themselves unless it's their choice to find a name they love for themselves more.

So. What am I missing from the other side of the argument? What makes having names from other cultures appropriation? How is someone having a name causing harm? I would genuinely love if someone could break it down for me, because I just don't understand and if I'm lacking perspective, I'd love to gain it.

[system-of-a-feather]

To white people out there, if there is a POC open and willing to call out racist and problematic behavior, the best thing to do to be an anti-racist ally is to support the POC trying to speak and limit the amount of which you add your two cents.

While the intent is good and appreciated and actually helpful when there isn't a POC around to speak for themselves, white people talking about the complex issues that POC bring up in mixed spaces will always make space for misunderstanding, removing nuance, and distorting the message POC are trying to say.

Always remember, as much as you care and try to learn about the issues POC have, you will not know the topic more in depth, more personally, and more intensely than someone with lived experience.

This also applies to POC that disagree with what most POC say.

If a POC disagrees with what you've heard other POC saying, it is not your place to tell them that they are wrong - you don't have the life experience to understand the topic enough to argue at other POC. Leave POC discourse with POC to other people who have the lived experience.

Know your place and stay in your lane, else you run a huge risk of being a white knight and speaking over POC and derailing the Point of any complaints that POC are trying to get heard.

[system-of-a-feather]

I honestly really like testing out #sysconversation and trying to contribute to the baseline norms of the tag, but on the topic of tulpacourse and talking about it in a much less "we need to push to get a bare minimum fundamental respect and acknowledgement to the damage done" area and really just trying to get more into the nuance and intricacies of it - I really don't think pushing for the "no one is allowed to say or use the word tulpa" is anything helpful or really productive to the complexity of the issue.

(And for those that don't know, I'm a practicing eclectic Buddhist - Zen and Tibetan being particular focuses, diagnosed DID system in late stage recovery, and am Chinese/Indonesian and honestly the topic of tulpacourse is something I find to be a really interesting discussion; additionally we played a pretty notable role in the "tulpa terminology is cultural appropriation)

I very very much do appreciate all the non-Buddhist non-AAPI individuals who have been pushing for our voices to be heard and spreading information on the appropriation surrounding the term because honestly, especially in the syscourse community, there was a lot of dismissiveness of our voices and honestly just outright racism and stereotyping. If I had to choose between what the environment around the topic was before and people over correcting and stating "you can't use the term tulpa or you are racist" or similar things; I MUCH prefer and love the latter and its largely why I've been relatively limited in talking about it cause honestly, in large, I don't expect people - at least those in the syscourse community - to have the attention, care, or really discussion skills to explore any further nuance between the black and white dichotomy of "racist vs anti-racist" behavior and I'd find myself incredibly annoyed if me bringing nuance to the table ended up being used by people who literally don't care about AAPI or Buddhist cultures to justify their behavior.

That said, I have some more faith in the #sysconversation tag and community so maybe I'll talk about it more under the assumption yall aren't here to prove one thing or the other and more so to talk and share perspectives on complex experiences.

I think when we talk about tulpacourse, there are a few realms and perspectives to take on it that have an important value and consideration when going into making a more developed and clear stance on tulpacourse related things.

The practice / concept of Tulpamancy / Willogenic and, more specifically AND generally, the Intentional Creation of Parts and the debate on if that is "valid" or "okay" or "racist" or whatever

The term "tulpa" and the origins as it relates to white / western orientalism, stereotypes, asian mysticism, and overall colonialist / appropriation nature of how white / western people interact with AAPI cultures

The perception and present impact of the term "tulpa" as it has on and is perceived by AAPI cultures and individuals

The term "tulpa" and the origins as it relates to Buddhism - particularly Tibetian Buddhism - in terms of the history (and oppression) of Buddhist cultures across countries and cultures

The term "tulpa" and the origins as it related to Buddhism - particularly Tibetian Buddhism - in terms of the philosophy and practices that Buddhists / Tibetian Buddhists

The perception and present impact of the term "tulpa" as it has on and is perceived by Buddhist / Tibetian Buddhist cultures

The present attitudes, practices, and values that are found within the tulpamancy community and how those have changed and developed over time in relation to it's origins and history - for better or worse

The present and practical actions and values held by the current online tulpa community in relation to system environments, CDD environments, Buddhist / Tibetian Buddhist environments and culture, and AAPI individuals and culture.

The current status of the tulpamancy community and what practical and realistic approaches can be done to improve the community in a way that respects an existing subculture that does benefit a non-negligible amount of individuals while ALSO respecting potentially harmed or hurt historically marginalized communities

I find that a lot of individuals focus on one, maybe two of these perspectives and sub-discussions to the debate and call it the "most important" one that should determine how people "should" act and speak and exist, but imo that takes a largely results in a perspective, approach, and future plan that does not address a lot of the issues that go into it.

Our system unironically spends a lot of time internally debating each other (for fun, we trade roles and perspectives a lot since we are in a position to talk and have developed opinions of the first seven) about this topic and if you individually only hold one of the topics in mind, you can end up with really conflicting directions to go.

It's complicated but at least of the first six, the general understanding and perspective / insight we've come to are

Literally this shouldn't really be a topic of consideration in #sysconversation because questioning validity is such a pointless and stupid argument that I would is not really a humored one; yes the practice / action / development and presentation of parts through intentional means is fine and OK; many cultures don't align with the Standard Singular Self narrative, people know themselves and are free to express themselves as is most helpful and natural to them, I'd like to assume people are being genuine and honest rather than stating they are "faking" or "quirkifying" things and honestly that type of verbage tends to be more common in conservative environments than I like to be affiliated with

From an AAPI lens, the term "tulpa" is just another aggression in a LONG and honestly violent history of racism, appropriation, objectification and fetishism of AAPI culture and it is absolutely something that should not be brushed off as ok; it can be incredibly retraumatizing in terms of cultural / generational trauma for such things to be completely ignored and neglected; its a responsibility as someone who is AAPI and as allies of it to stand against it

Presently, a lot of AAPI individuals have stated harm from it and presently, anti-AAPI and AAPI-hate have been openly seen in tulpamancy communities; that said, the consensus is not a monolith and there is inevitably a diversity of opinions

The term comes from appropriative cultures and ADN is "a racist white bitch" as I've seen it stated in tumblr tulpacourse. There is a large disagreement within the tulpamancy community whether it "is related to / comes from Buddhist ideas" or "has nothing to do with Buddhism whatsoever" and I say that just as an outsider who have had people push both at me, leaving me very confused. Overall, from what I've seen, a lot of indiviudals who use the tulpa term can range from anywhere between "respectable individuals who are open to discussion and acknowledge the history to where the history is less harmful" to The MLP Brony Saga TM of generally turning the concept into so far divorced and bastardized from the original concept.

This one I could honestly write a 400 page essay on and I can't really say I have a firm consensus on because I actually have not learned enough about the actual practices within the tulpamancy community to be certain on my perspectives; but as I get further into my practices and studies of Buddhism - especially Tibetian Buddhism - I've had a lot more complex perspectives and opinions. On a very generally Buddhist lens, I actually love to see people exploring themselves within their parts and dismantling some of the concept of the solidity and absoluteness of the concept of "self" and really learning to interact and engage with parts of themselves in manners like this through meditation. I think there is a lot of a realm for it to become unhealthy, harmful, and increase the clinging to "self" but overall, I think it has the potential to also be incredibly helpful and beautiful. From what I've understood of the principles of Tibetian Buddhism that I believe the ADN pulled from, I don't necessarily think it is inherently all that bad on a theoretical level. Additionally, from a general Buddhist lens, the whole idea of saying what people can and can't do, or sweating and trying to direct people's behaviors according to a "good" or "bad" behavior is incredibly non-important and honestly a means of adding suffering to both yourself and other's. So from a Buddhist lens, the response is "its interesting" - nothing more, nothing less.

Once again Buddhist / Tibetian Buddhists are not a monolith and honestly I don't know enough to have a clean take on it. I do believe there is a lot of individuals that come from heavily persecuted histories (particularly Tibetian Buddhists) that are likely a lot more charged on it per the nature of cultural / generational trauma. That being said, I have only really heard of one person with that history and that is from someone online talking to said person and reporting that they found it hurtful and sad that a practice they were persecuted against was turned into something it was not. It isn't the most credible voice if ONLY because its a game of telephone, but its a reasonable, realistic, and understandable sentiment to have and I think its worth acknowledging when discussing these sorts of things.

I'm honestly getting a bit tired of typing on this so I'll likely call it quits for Part 1 on me rambling about this, but I've honestly come to find that as a whole, our system really finds that there is a lot more to this topic than "one side good one side bad" especially if we are intending to address the topic in a way that can promote education, awareness, and an overall better community for all individuals.

Our AAPI lens and our Buddhist lens have historically clashed a lot, as it has with just a number of our other backgrounds and our values in allying with individuals with trauma histories (cultural or not) AND our value for the complex diversity of human experiences, self expression and phenomenon.

I don't really have a closing statement or anything for this, but I wanted to share it some as food for thought; anyone is welcome to engage in good faith conversation and discussion.

[system-of-a-feather]

Hiya! Umm... I saw your long AAPI/cultural appropriation essay, and you seem to know what you're talking about. Way more than I do.

I'm in a tricky spot and I don't know what to do about it. (I know you may not be the right person but I don't know who else to ask)

So. I'm a traumagenic system. I was lonely, and anime was there for me. I have introjects, sure. But we're polyfrag and it's fuzzy, and for the whole system it feels more than just a source media thing.

We grew up DREAMING about Japan. We studied japanese and tried to sing the original lyrics of songs and search up their meanings as a kid. I'd sometimes try to make english versions of them. Not to hide the original, but because my family couldn't understand the beauty I saw. And I felt such a connection to it...

Now I'm rambling... 😅

I've always wanted to teach Japanese, to use Japanese every day in my life. When I wrote stories I would go search through all the Japanese to english dictionaries and search for the perfect name with the perfect meaning. I thought all the names were gorgeous and appreciated how special they were.

I try and bring Japanese culture into my life every day, even. I listen to Japanese idol groups and pop. I'm still trying to learn japanese, and further more I want to teach it to my community, to create a place where we can come together and learn this language together, as a small country community. To learn and embrace some of their cultures and try new things along the way.

I know that I am not Japanese. I don't want to appropriate them. But I find them so... or not them. But the language and culture and almost everything I find out has me entranced and wanting to learn more. It almost feels like my purpose, or a huge part of my life. My goal. My mission.

I live on the disability pension. I will probably never see Japan in person, and I've heard disability is frowned upon there anyway, to some degree. I don't know if I could even live there, especially if my workability was low. I'm not so young anymore. Even then there are stories of all the people who aim for their dreams and don't make it there. So I dropped it from my cards. I decided if I couldn't do it there... maybe I could do it where I am.

If I'm culturally appropriating Japan and it's cultures I'm happy to give them all the credit. I'm proud of where I found what I have. I adore it and would lift it up any day. But I also adore what I'm doing, what I'm bringing to life. I'm making some Japanese-Aussie vibe culture hybrid or something. I don't know!

But I wouldn't give it up for anyone. If a Japanese person asked me too... I'd prefer to start life over in Japan with no money or resources to my name. I'd probably prefer to live their homeless. I couldn't organise it myself. But I'd take a harsher punishment rather than let it go. I'd prefer to embrace it entirely than ever give it up.

But people online keep saying that nobody should use the names, the language, the cultures... I don't know what to do. I... don't have an answer.

I don't want to be for something so harmful. But I've posted about how names are beyond something that could be taken away. I've disagreed with people of colour about Japanese examples. I've never met a truly Japanese people, beyond watching lessons and shows and blogs and cultural breakdowns. I don't know what they'd say. I've heard that Japanese people praise other cultures for trying to learn their language, from articles online detailing what foreigners should expect. But I know Japan is big on honour culture, so they might just think it and not say their true thoughts to be polite.

Idk what to do!! I want to uplift everyone around me. To build villages for people who I come in contact with. To create openness and to be respectful and create fond memories. I don't want to go down as someone oppressive. But I want to go down as me.

I have no Japanese heritage, no japanese blood or family. I have no rights except for years with nothing else.

I know the answer some people would give is to embrace my own culture. But well... Aussie culture is sort of memes and culture-mix-soup. Beyond white man capitalism and conquering and the white people bible. Aussie culture is "it's hot here and we're like smart, funky, weird sounding bogans". I sort of want more than that.

I want to preserve their (Japans) culture how I found it, if I can. If I accidentally tamper with it, I want to say that, to let it be known. But I like how it is too mostly.

There are some negatives to it too, I know. Like, LGBT rights in Japan, the mental illness stuff, and more. But I'm not willing to leave because of those bad things.

Sometimes moving forward means taking aspects of different places and furthering them together to make something new. Is that cultural appropriation? Will I get in trouble for doing that? And how can I progress it/myself, how can I aspire and dream of a better world if all the jigzaw blocks are forced down to the table and unmovable. What do I do?

I don't understand it. And I don't know what to do about it.

Help.

(sorry it is so long. Sorry 😅😥)

Reading this back, I feel like the indignant child. "I don't want the other one, I want that one." Is that bad? Idk.

I'll just leave this here. What is your take? What do you& think?

Yeah thats a complex situation that I don't really have any kneejerk direct opinions on it towards. I might actually leave this in my drafts for a bit to think about it some cause theres a multi-dimensional aspect to it and a lot to consider that even I don't think I'm entirely all that knowledgable to comment on

(Especially regarding Japanese culture as I am Not Japanese and while there are similar dynamics in how western / white perspectives influence it, the dynamics are different and the histories are different; additionally, of a lot of the 'main big' Asian groups, Japanese is honestly the one I've had some of the least engagement with as the places I've lived have been heavily Vietnamese, Thai, Chinese, and Korean; we have a couple Japanese marketplaces near but beyond community, I don't have too much personal insight into the intricracies of Japanese culture and their opinions on these matters, so do understand ANYTHING from this post is coming from a Indo-Chinese perspective and anything I say on this topic, is to be taken second / less than any Japanese person that might want to key in on it as well)

I do have to say - from what I can tell from this ask alone (which is not necessarily a best sample, a lot of judgement of respect is best seen in Action and not words which asks are limited to) - I do have to say I really think you have a good intent and a better understanding / concern to the complexities of things than a lot of people I've seen who "really like Japan and Japanese culture" so in my more optimistic, generally wanting-to-give-best-faith and progressive culture-sharing perspective, I would like to encourage the dream and intent cause I think the vision is really great and amazing honestly.

The issue I have is that the practical application is pragmatically difficult and a bit uneasy because, as much as I think you have a lot of good intent and probably more than the average person, you aren't the first nor last white person who found themselves enamored and emotionally bonded with an Eastern Culture and with a full heart and chest wanted to help preserve and care for the culture. I don't say it in a means to be accusatory or aggressive, but more so a thing to be cautious if you want to try both holding your dreams and joys in the most respectful manner - but the rhetoric does sound a bit white savior / white knight adjacent. That is just to say that it's important to remember that, in the end of the day, Japanese people don't need you (a white person) to advocate for them or to save them and the culture doesn't need you to spread or preserve it for them.

I don't like to say it because I think with a lot of caution, respect, and passion, people who really love something can do a lot of good in the world; but (and I don't know if this is the case or just my past experience with white people who want to help Eastern cultures making be a bit cautious) inherently if there is any part of you that feels as though you will be a hero or leader in any way or form towards the Japanese / Japanese culture, I think one of the first things you'd need to make sure you do is to toss that dream of heroics out and take a massively more "follower" and "aid" mindset out.

In the end of the day, if you want to help any eastern culture be preserved and what not, its important that you - someone who has never been raised or lived the life - are never the end point of people reaching to it; the best place your role would and should be is a means of connection and resource provision, because in the end of the day, you are going to always be a student compared to those that have lived their life in the environment

With that in mind, I am a person who really likes the idea of healthy and productive sharing of cultures and respectful interactions between them and I also know that in some places - which I assume Australia might be as well - there is not as an abundant AAPI populace and probably not much of a pre-existing environment / people to engage with so the complexities of "leave it to the people of the culture" is not entirely practical.

So with all that in mind, first thing I'd say is - as I said above - listen to Japanese voices over mine. I'm speaking largely from theoretics on what I've seen in trends in other eastern cultures and my own experiences as well as being a relatively more idealistic and open perspective.

Second thing, I would see if there is any pre-existing niches where there might be at least an AAPI center around where you live - see if there are any events or classes or something that you may realistically be able to get involved in. If there aren't any of those, consider seeing if there are any direct cultural derivatives from that to participate (as in arts, crafts, hobbies, etc) - cause in my experience, stuff like martial arts are open things to engage in and they can help you connect with people more familiar and more engaged with the genuine culture.

The main reason I say this is because - other than the risk of falling into the white savior complex - one of the largest obstacles to doing this respectfully and healthily is putting time and effort into getting around how white / western culture has already distorted your understanding of Japanese culture in ways you probably don't know about. (And this isn't only you, cause I also am 100% sure I don't see Japanese culture correctly due to white / western influences; I'm not particularly qualified to talk about it as a result; its a very hard and very long journey for any not-Japanese person to do to get as untainted, genuine, and complete understanding of the culture as possible)

One of the best ways to navigate working on that is to find people and environments that are less-tainted by white / western lenses and influences and to take a more student lens and approach to it; very much a "sit and listen and reflect and do your unpacking homework"

If none of those are available or reasonably possible due to disability and/or financial things, I would strongly recommend reaching out to Japanese communities online (reddit probably has a good community) and getting advice from them as they will have more insight and ideas than I could think up.

I will say, they might be a lot more hesitant and wary than I am, cause again - from what I've seen, I think I'm considered pretty idealistic and a bit of a dreamer when it comes to including non-AAPI people in cultures (some are even uncomfortable with married-in-white people getting involved; my bestie is married to a Chinese person and he's been derogatorily and regularly considered a 'gweilo'; ie derogatory term meaning "Westerner" / "white man" / "ghost man") so you will probably face a lot of people nay-saying it, but I would hope maybe someone shares a little of the optimism / appreciation for the vision that I do, even if it's a minority.

That said, I think if you do want to honestly go forward with this and try to do so with the most respect and healthiest lens, I think it is important that you inevitably face the amount of distrust a lot of AAPI have towards white / western involvement in their culture face on and deeply develop a very complex and nuanced understanding to your place and position in the overall roles, history, and participation in it. Cause if you do want to help and do want to be a part of it, it's important to understand where YOUR culture comes into play with all of this. Cause you aren't Japanese and you will never be Japanese, even if you were an expect PhD holding person living in Japan. Inherently you will always be the white person engaging with Japanese culture, and so its important to remember that with you, you bring your own culture into this and that is something that has to be dissected in relationship to it all.

Third, and (less important but relevant) I do not at all mean this to diss on the culture or anything, but a lot of Eastern cultures have something of bad blood towards Japan and I don't honestly know the details enough nor have the energy to Properly Get Into It in a way that won't be misread without nuance by White Piss on the Poor Tumblr, but if you don't know what or why that bad blood exists, it'd be good to try to read into it and look into non-Japanese AAPI voices about it. This isn't to say that "its a bad culture", but more so that if we are talking about seeing the history as a whole, its important to know the impacts Japan and Japanese cultures have had on related cultures which, unfortunately, Japan has been a large part of. (China, Phillipines, Korea, etc)

Overall, it'd probably be an unpopular opinion among other AAPI, but I like the vision and passion you have for it and while I'm a bit hesitant to give support because I know how many people say similar things then fail to do all the work it takes to Do It Right ((ie, I honestly haven't really seen it ever, that said I haven't put the effort into trying to see it happen ever)), if you are willing to do all the tedious and life long homework of understanding your culture, Japanese culture, the ways your and Japanese culture interact to impact your understanding of BOTH cultures, white / western history, white / western history with AAPI cultures and Japan's culture, Japan's history within overall AAPI history, etc and are willing to do your due diligence to network, get involved, and engage with less white-tainted and warped parts of the culture AND navigate a lot of the inherent (fair, earned and justified) distrust to white / western involvement in culture, then I don't think you might have some merit to the dream.

Like it's going to be a LOT of work, a life long thing of work and admittedly, you will likely never be the expert or the advocate or the person you idealistically dream to be and that sounds negative, but in Buddhist philosophy, you are never meant to actually obtain perfection and its considered near impossible to reach "true enlightenment", but we aim for it anyways because the ideal is 1) worth aiming for and 2) we do it because it is good to try and do it anyways as the ideal is not necessary to enjoy the good that genuine and good work towards the ideal.

I guess the last parting thing I'd put out is that a really helpful concept and lens I'd recommend sitting on and thinking about is one of my favorite Buddhist lines of thoughts from Shunryu Suzuki here as it might be helpful in persisting against a lot of the inherent obstacles you will face should you genuinely intend to do it right, cause you are going to probably inherently - due to being white, western and not around any actual japanese culture - "the bad horse".

In general, I think in the end, one of the things that also would be really helpful is that I mention a lot of being a student to the Japanese culture and whether or not you want to take the writing in the Zen Buddhist idea of Zen behavior or just generally keeping a very respectful and chronic student lens to any really insurmountably large and complex topic that you are inherently disadvantaged in (such as learning and respecting a culture that you have no inherent place in), I recommend giving Shunryu Suzuki's book on "The Beginner's Mind" a read / listen.

Overall, that book has helped me so much in both mental health, goal seeking, system management, and overall my perspective on people and culture beyond a simple "buddhist" lens so I really really strongly recommend it.

[system-of-a-feather]

Honestly, if any white person / westerner want to ask me any of the questions regarding AAPI topics that you've been too afraid to ask, feel free to send them and I'll answer them to the best of the ability that I can from what I know. I think its worth opening some of those conversations up

[system-of-a-feather]

Okay @reimeichan gave a good explanation as to it, but I still find it funny that the only Indonesian words my family - who raised me in an almost exclusively English speaking house hold to make sure we succeeded in English and American school - still used around the hosue to the point I literally thought they were english are ALL related to Soup Specifically

Cause like

My parents apparently: We are going to raise them SO English American EXCEPT when it comes to soup

[system-of-a-feather]

What does AAPI stand for?

Asian American Pacific Islander

[system-of-a-feather]

So this isn't my hill to die on or me saying "you are horrible if you do this" and far more a "just some thought and consideration to how you use these terms" but I think it's kind of off when non-AAPI folk use terms like "koreaboo" or "weeb" as light hearted terms to describe themselves or other non-AAPI folk.

I think its 100% fine to use it to call out others in a genuine and derogatory manner because that is the intended use of it - but I find non-AAPI folk normalizing the terms to be kinda detrimental to the very real and problematic topic they are addressing which is the unique type of fetishization wide spread and normalized about AAPI cultures and bodies.

Terms like those (koreaboo, weebo, gwailo, gweilo, etc) are terms used to describe problematic non-AAPI that fetishize and disrespectfully / shallowly approach AAPI cultures and they are terms used as a moderate and short hand vent to how prevalent it is.

For a non-AAPI to use it in a playful light hearted way, its like going "uwu I'm a cultural appropriator" like its something cute or going "uwu you are such a cultural appropriator" - like... its not for you to reclaim or make cute and its always a bit weird and unnerving.

Like I used to not find any issue with it back when I was in denial about being AAPI cause me and my asian circles used it at eachother regularly in a light hearted and I assumed that its just a "normal white thing" until I sat and realized we used it at other asians almost exclusively and like... its kinda honestly I think a way of coping by desensitization to the acknowledgement of how fucking weird people get about AAPI cultures

Like I don't genuinely care enough to start looking at people and say "Horrible racist!" or anything for those that do, but I will say as an AAPI who is realizing that I genuinely grew up primarily in AAPI cliques and reflecting on how dynamics in those cliques worked that like.... I do side eye it when I see non-AAPI people thinking its cute to claim the term weeb / koreaboo / gwailo / gweilo / other "ugh foreigners being disrespectful to our culture" terms.

(Feel free to reblog but non-AAPI don't try arguing with me.)

[system-of-a-feather]

(Btw just rambling in this post about more thoughts tangentially related cause I Have Thoughts)

Absolutely and no problem. Honestly, in my experience a lot of Asian cultures have a lot of collective trauma regarding white / western influence and general Orientalism that a lot of the information and history and struggles Asians / Asian Americans go through is actually not talked about or discussed as much as it should as part of the generally very closed and protective nature that kinda is present.

Combine that with issues regarding model minority and the toxic double edged blade of being the "white person's ideal of a minority" has kind made it hard for non-Asians to actually get a good grasp on what harm, disrespect, and what not is as - in my experience - Asians tend to not be particularly loud about the poor treatment and grievances they have.

(And more often than not, I see Asians of older generations perpetuate it themselves which is a whole second topic I could chatter about, but a lot of business owners in America tend to leverage orientalism to bring in money; I saw two "Oriental ____" shops when I was in Colorado the other day and every time I wanted to be a bit offended, they were all run by Asians; this factor is information is NOT to be used by white / western people as an excuse for it. Just because some people are okay with it and / or try to make the best out of a shitty situation doesn't mean its okay)

Overall, with this all put together, I find that there isn't a lot of easily accessible places to actually talk about and discuss a lot of the struggles, appropriation, discrimination and depictions of orientalism in society for people who are NOT in Asian circles.

A lot of AAPI talk about these things a lot among one another, but tend to be a lot more quiet about them in public (which is often reinforced by white people supporting our silence and others getting angry, making accusations, and retaliating when we are being 'bad' and not like 'the other nice quiet Asians that agree with me')

I find there is A LOT more nuance, technicalities and differences and details when we talk about Asian cultures and Asian-American cultures that are completely invisible to the average white / western awareness if SOLELY due to the common understanding of "Asian" as anything close to a cohesive group of similar individuals. (Which in my opinion, the only thing that really binds "Asians" together as anything close of a cohesive group is the fact that white people perceive us all as "Asian" and thus we are treated as one which has thus resulted in a lot of us having similar experiences when we talk about race; cause ya know, long history of colonialism and white supremacy has given Asians a lot of shared similar history)

And so there is a lot of nuance when it comes to a lot of these topics and a lot of AAPI voices that do try to advocate for themselves have to heavily simplify and generalize the requests as to make it so that it is easily digestible by the white / western ears that aren't used to talking about AAPI issues. It's easier to say "its cultural appropriation trust me" than to break down all the details. It's easier and more respectful to say "if you are not specific-AAPI don't use those names"

Those statements tend to do good enough to communicate the basic idea, but a lot of the time, within AAPI communities, which cultures and the history with your culture may vary how distasteful it might be to use a name from a different AAPI group; additionally, because its not uncommon, generally speaking as long as you were raised within the culture and / or raised by an Asian, a lot of AAPI will consider you somewhat honorary at least, because again, a lot of this closed protectiveness of the culture from insider's away from outsiders comes from a history of cultural trauma and Orientalism. If you were authentically raised in the culture, Orientalism is much less of an overt issue.

On a personal level, one of the funniest things is how a lot of people think and talk about Buddhism cause I am a Buddhist and a pretty proud and active one at that. But the way people think of Buddhism is so so so so drenched in the white / western media depiction of it and it's REALLY funny sometimes to see what people think buddhism is versus what it just kinda practically is

But yea theres a lot to be said on the complexity of the topic and like, these two long essays barely scratch the top of it. This ramble was just so I could say "Yeah I figured it was worth sharing because its not often talked about directly due to these reasons so I appreciate the genuine question and effort to learn because its a small step but appreciated none the less"

This might get be shot in the foot but can someone explain the argument that alters can only have names that match the body's ethnicity/culture/country of origin to me like I'm 3? I just. Don't get it. One of our core values is to be a forever student, so we are more than willing to learn and adjust here if we're wrong, but with the information we have this argument doesn't make sense to us.

I just don't see how a name is cultural appropriation. I definitely agree that like claiming that an alter in a white body is literally another race is appropriative, disrespectful, and flat out racist. No matter how you appear in headspace or how many pseudo memories you have, you will never experience that actuality of being that race. Claiming the experiences of minorities is obviously shitty.

I don't see how simply having a name from another culture is the same though. Just having a name is not equal to claiming that you are actually X ethnicity when you're not. As long as alters acknowledge that they are not a different race than the body and don't claim to be, what is the harm in letting them have the names that they have?

I just saw someone who was told that it didn't matter that their anime alter with a Japanese name already acknowledged that they aren't and never will be Japanese and that it didn't matter that that alter was strongly attached to their name and distressed by being forced to change their name. They were told they had to force the alter to change their name and that the alter would just get used to it.

It just.... Seems cruel to forcibly take people's names from them to me.

Also. What about singlets who were given names that aren't from their race/culture/country/ethnicity. Are they culturally appropriating just by having those names they didn't choose to have? Would the argument be that they HAVE to change their names when they're old enough to?

I still come back to forcibly taking people's names just seems cruel to me.

Names are big parts of our identities, whether they're chosen, given, or inherited from a source. I just don't think people should be forced to part with such a big part of themselves unless it's their choice to find a name they love for themselves more.

So. What am I missing from the other side of the argument? What makes having names from other cultures appropriation? How is someone having a name causing harm? I would genuinely love if someone could break it down for me, because I just don't understand and if I'm lacking perspective, I'd love to gain it.