#all i know is that i continue to think afo's grandson dabi and nana's grandson tomura self destructing the lov is hilarious

[pocketramblr]

It would be fun if we hit Endeavor with the DFO stick

Enji grew up knowing that his dad would give him anything he wanted- if he spun it right, and fully committed. If he didn't convince him, or faltered at all, then his dad won instead and that was a bad time.

He was allowed to become a hero because he said he specifically wanted to beat All Might, humiliate him at his own job before AfO took him down. And then he threw himself into getting strong enough to do just that, though AfO doubted it ever would work, it at least seemed like Enji thought it would, so he allowed it. The first time Enji met All Might in person, he saw no less than four of his father's operatives watching in the crowd, and knew he had to be cold, knew he'd never have the freedom to ask for help. And he'd gotten this far on his own, he'd gotten more freedom than he'd hoped for as a kid, so this was enough. this would be enough until All Might killed his dad, surely.

But then Enji fell in love, and knew that would never fly as a reason to start a family AfO was not involved in. He wanted to leave well enough alone, break it off for her own good- but Rei had her own family troubles, and Enji had managed to come up with a plan for everything else so far... so they staged a quirk marriage to satisfy all parents, Enji claiming it was to create a quirk strong enough to beat All Might. AfO raised a skeptical brow, but decided to let him try and fail, promising his best doctor and expert in quirk sciences to take care of Rei's and any children's health.

Now that Enji knew that AfO would absolutely be checking in on the children, he knew he'd be asking them about him as well, always keeping a close eye. Which means they couldn't tell the kids that it was a fake quirk marriage or that Enji didn't care about forcing them to beat All Might one day- AfO would find out, and Enji didn't want to know what his father winning would entail this time. Rei pointed out that they could just... not tell the kids anything, and if AfO asked, Enji could claim it was kinder to keep his children in ignorance until they were old enough to safely train, and even then, AfO wouldn't expect the kids to know everything about the terms of the marriage that he was told. But, stubborn Enji insisted that he knew his father, and this was the best way to keep the kids safe and the family together.

He was somewhat right- AfO had been keeping close tabs on Touya the whole time, acting as an online friend, and was utterly convinced by what Touya passed on- but also irritated by Touya's treatment as the oldest brother. (he's projecting) and since Enji clearly isn't even acting like a father, surely he won't mind AfO intervening on the children's behalf and keeping everyone happy, right? And if, say, hero society collapse entirely one day... well it's not like AfO didn't warn Enji all those years ago it would happen, and to try to reach number one hero as quickly as he could to actually enjoy it before he had to come home.

[haleigh-sloth]

Dude Tomura Shigaraki is literally the most transparent character in BNHA, like there is not a single moment where what he’s saying is NOT exactly what he means. His situation is also very obvious and clear to the people around him but they literally just do not care. The amount of times that he’s said exactly what his issue with the world is and it being dismissed as mindless violence two seconds later by the other characters is ridiculous (also by people who are reading BNHA but that’s a different story 🙄). He’s not like Dabi who has created an entirely new identity for himself, and wore that for a decade— dissociating and hiding who he is and how he’s really feeling. He isn’t written to be cryptic and hard to figure out. He is one of the most straight forward characters I think I personally have ever read. 

His first introduction into the story was him spelling out his convictions to everyone in the room at UA and to his target (All Might). He can’t articulate it well and ends up not getting his point across to Stain, despite having the same type of issues Stain has with the world. He’s told by Stain that he has no conviction and is just killing pointlessly. THEN he’s told by the main character at their next encounter that his violence is pointless and “just for fun”, despite hearing everything he said at USJ.

All Might finds out he’s Nana’s grandson-starts to piece everything together, then quickly decides it’s not worth his time after Gran Tostito just reiterates the fact that Shigaraki is a criminal.

He spills his guts out in front of the LOV and the doctor, explaining why he’s so sick of everything and just wants to erase it all and start over, and the doctor continues referring to him as the “embodiment of destruction” and saying he “takes after AFO”. Completely disregarding the fact that there is a very deep desire in Shigaraki to see a better world.

Shigaraki is once again spilling his heart out in the middle of a war in front of the heroes who are actively trying to kill him, begging for SOMEONE to listen--and just gets dismissed again when Endeavor--once again--tries to fucking kill him.

Green Tomato KNOWS what happened with Nana, and put the pieces together probably figuring out why he ended up the way he did--and then accuses Shigaraki of trampling over Nana’s memory and hurting All Might just by existing. 

He spills his heart out to anyone in the vicinity, anyone who will listen, and it’s still never mattered.

Like how many times does he have to scream out WHAT he’s angry about straight to their faces? He has never tried to hide how he feels about anything.

Not only is it the heroes’ jobs to royally fuck up, but it’s also their job to just not listen at all and fail at critical thinking altogether. And because of all of this, from a reader’s perspective he’s one of the easiest characters to read and understand.

[hamliet]

You’ve answered how to write a good tragedy....So how do you write a good redemption story?

Hi! So, I’ve addressed this before, primarily here. If you’ll notice, all the predictions for how this would play out in Enji’s arc have come to pass, soooo. We’re now in the “acceptance” and “more suffering” phases for him. He’ll likely get to penance via what I’ve been also predicting from the start (see Hawks stans this is not a new prediction for me).

If we wanna break these down even further, the thing about Dabi and Shigaraki (less Toga because, well, Hori and the female character dilemma) is that their arcs are systemic. So let’s examine these arcs, because you can see a pattern in these steps between fathers and sons. (Idk what’s going on with the numbering thing but w/e).

Initial crime:  

Endeavor marries Rei and forces her to produce children whom he plans to use to further his own ambitions as a hero.

Touya helps kidnap Bakugou.

Nana Shimura abandons her son, Koutarou, and then dies a hero but alone.

Tenko kills his family and is left all alone.

A worsening of the crime:

Endeavor abuses his family.

Touya targets his family with Natsu and Shouto, kills 30 people, etc. 

Koutarou abuses his children.

Tenko becomes Shigaraki and targets kids at UA, spirals as a villain.

Reckoning/refusal of the reckoning:

Endeavor: Touya dies and he locks Rei up and refuses to accept that it might just be his fault. Continues to treat Shouto awfully.

Touya rejects Shouto on the battlefield and rejects himself.

Koutarou’s wife tells him she’ll leave him if he hurts Tenko again . Three seconds later he attacks his son.

Tenko rejects his family (this isn’t bad since they asked him to die) but emerges from his coma to control Gigantomachia and kills a bunch of people. 

Suffering:

Endeavor’s family doesn’t accept his attempts to change and his reputation is now trash after a Dabi Todoroki reveal.

Touya’s all alone and more burned than ever.

Nana’s legacy is utterly trashed because her grandson is being used against her by the man who murdered her.

Tenko is having his mind literally controlled and not allowed to be his own person/establish his own legacy.

Acceptance:

Thank you Rei Todoroki. We’re at that moment with Enji right now. He knows it is all his fault and will not deny it.

Touya: now he’s finally outed himself as Todoroki Touya. We’ll see what this looks like for him in the future.

All Might and Gran Torino are showing a bit of this what with GT wondering if they did the right thing, as is Deku through his musing that Shigaraki looks like he wants to be saved (as carriers of OFA, they carry on Nana’s legacy). There’s more to be done.

Shigaraki’s gonna have to accept AFO sucks. He’s already showing signs of this through not wanting him to take control.

More suffering:

Buckle up buttercup Enji’s suffering is just beginning. He cannot deny his son in the media,

Touya’s probably going to Go Through It with AFO and the League and perhaps Hawks going after him.

All Might is probably going to have to suffer a bit and realize that his cowardice in not tracking Shigaraki in the first place makes him somewhat at fault.

Shigaraki’s probably going to wrestle for control of his very essence.

Penance/Sacrifice

See this is where my Enji-Hawks prediction comes in. I really think Enji needs to sacrifice himself to save Touya from something (it doesn’t have to be Hawks, but that’s my current theory); however, he will probably survive.

Shouto will probably get through to Dabi, and Dabi will probably help in the final battle. Yes, he’s going to have to do something to fight.

All Might might sacrifice his life to reach Shigaraki in a Han Solo/Kylo Ren type way, or he might not. He might also live, but I’m less optimistic.

Deku will probably get through to Shigaraki, who will use his quirk to destroy AFO and perhaps quirkdom entirely.

Forgiveness.

The integration of the separate arcs of father and son: Endeavor and Touya will probably both get a chance to heal and be a part of their family.

Deku will probably be the last OFA holder and establish the legacy of heroes with Tenko’s help. Hopefully they will establish a better society with the help of Touya and Toga, a society that saves victims.

I also think that, while there are very valid criticisms of why the trope tends to be this way, often the more suffering=the better the chances of not having a character die. The reason I think Dabi and Shigaraki have good chances is that their entire lives have been suffering. It’s just not particularly thrilling for their suffering to mean just death in the end. Enji is more of a risk than they are because afawk he hasn’t suffered all his life, but he’s still probably not gonna die imo.

[blazingstar24]

Okay so I know the spoilers seem to paint Nana in a bad light concerning her grandson, but the question she’s asking Deku is: Could he kill Shigaraki? And we have no indication of what answer she would prefer. It’s highly possible she’s testing to see what Deku’s morals and code are.

In that vein, I personally think Deku is going to say no. He will say: No, I won’t kill Shigaraki, I’m going to save him because that’s what heroes do! Because this is what Deku is all about. And this is what being a hero means to him. It’s not about how many villains he can take down. For him, it’s always been about saving people. He’s stated in previous chapters that when he looked at Shigaraki, he looked like someone who needed saving. And that right there is a big plot point in both Shigaraki’s and Deku’s arc. (I’ve done a meta like this already, so this will be the shortened version, go here if you want to read the longer one: here)

For Shigaraki, his life as a villain started because no one reached out and helped him. No one saw Tenko covered in blood, scared out of his mind, as someone who needed help. Leaving him to fall into AFO’s clutches and subsequent manipulation.(If you want to see my thoughts on that: here) So for someone, a hero, to finally come and save him, would bring his arc full circle. Shigaraki was waiting for someone to speak up against the abuse that was happening in the Shimura household. He was waiting for someone to help him after the accident with his quirk. So for Deku to come in after all this time and say “I am here, I am reaching out to you, I saw your cry for help and I am here to save you” makes so much sense narratively.

For Deku, this is what is going to make him the number one hero. It’s not because he defeats all the bad guys in some epic battle, but because he saved someone. Because that is the true mark of a hero. That has always been Deku’s ideal of a true hero: someone who saves others. For Deku’s arc to be quirkless kid gains quirk and then beats up all the bad guys and is a great hero now, it would defeat the point of having someone like Deku be the main hero. What makes Deku a hero is not OFA or the fact that he can punch a villain super good. It’s his heart and compassion for others that makes Deku a hero. And this is why Deku’s big moment is going to be saving Shigaraki.

This doesn’t mean he has to forgive him or that Shigaraki is absolved of all the crime that he has done. But by saving Shigaraki, Deku has a better chance of defeating AFO. Or even a team up between the two to take down the true villain of the series. Is this an “Avatar moment” as I’ve seen people saying? No. Because it’s not that Deku is against killing, it’s just Deku’s ideal of a hero. If he reached out and Shigaraki still refused, I’m pretty sure he would then proceed to take him down. But to me, the narrative isn’t setting it up this way.

Horikoshi has specifically written the LOV to point out the glaring problems in Hero Society and why it cannot continue. Dabi to show how the Pro Heroes can be despicable behind the scenes and how damaging this idea of becoming the most powerful is(aka the ranking of heroes). Toga and Spinner to show how Hero Society has no idea how to handle quirks that aren’t deemed acceptable. And Shigaraki to show how reliant people got on the heroes to solve everything and how that created a mass bystander effect that is creating huge problems. These are problems in Hero Society that need to be addressed and fixed by the end of the manga or at least shown to be improving. For Deku to just beat them up and say okay back to the status quo would be terrible. And for Deku who has experienced another one of Hero Society’s flaws firsthand to ignore this would be terrible.

Yes, we have characters on the heroes side that bring up these issues. Todoroki to parallel Dabi, Shinsou to show what Toga faced with her quirk being deemed villainous. But even then, the narrative showed us what Hero Society could be. Aizawa helps Shinsou, Deku helps Todoroki. Both are instances of someone stepping in and saying I am here for you, let me help you. That is something the LOV did not have. Which is why Deku must do so to Shigaraki. Because there are probably more people out there like Todoroki, Shinsou, Dabi, Toga, and Shigaraki. But if the issues in Hero Society aren’t fixed, they might end up falling through the cracks like the LOV. By doing this, Deku is helping fix hero society and making it so villains like this don’t keep happening. Of course, you can never escape villains that are just pure evil, but by fixing the flaws in hero society, Deku would definitely have filled in most of the cracks.

So for Deku to reach out and save Shigaraki, he completes his arc of becoming the number one hero. Because he has done the impossible, save a villain. He acknowledges the flaws of hero society and says he won’t play by the rule that have been put in place. Because it’s not about how many villains you can defeat. A hero is someone who saves people.

[hamliet]

Hi again, I'm so sorry to keep asking you questions but Shigaraki face is gone, doesn't that mean Shig is. And why did the hand on his face make him bleed.. im so confused. Why would Afo give control back. And if Shigaraki not the final boss doesn't that mean he dies cause he is determined to surpass afo thats what he wants. I like the idea of Shigaraki defeating AFO but at this point I just want him to not be in pain. I'm so panicked Thanks for all the answers you've given me

Hi, no worries!! I can’t answer the specifics of it because I don’t have the chapter yet. But I can give you some answers.

You have to think narratively, not according to real world logic, nor according to “what ifisms” wherein theoretically anything can happen. Narratively, every moment in a story is supposed to serve a purpose, building for a certain ending (the ending can be as specific or vague as a writer wants). The reader should expect a certain ending if they pay attention. The ending for BNHA I can tell you right now is “heroes save.” What that looks like specifically Horikoshi has a much better idea than we do. Now, the better writing is, the more every moment matters. BNHA is not perfectly written--no story is--but it is decently written insofar as the parts of the story are working together.

An author is not going to spend almost 300 chapters building up a villain as a victim and then have them vanish from the narrative. Additionally, within the story’s own logic, that isn’t how AFO works. AFO recognizes that Shigaraki’s comrades are giving Shigaraki power to keep going; he says it is all for his purpose, but AFO works through manipulation. If we analyze all the patterns of how AFO treats Shigaraki, All Might, and others, we realize that as much of a quirk collector as he is, his primary weapon is mental warfare. He even says it to All Might in Kamino when he reveals Shigaraki is Nana’s grandson: you know it’s the kind of thing I would do. He uses AM’s strength (saving people) to highlight his weakness (he didn’t save Nana nor her grandson).

So, AFO is using psychological warfare on Shigaraki and the league. How does AFO do this? Well, like any good cult leader/manipulator, he plays on both a victim’s strengths and weaknesses. He manipulates Shigaraki by saving him ostensibly (giving Shigaraki what he craves by taking him in and telling him his quirk doesn’t make him bad), but is actually just continuing to abuse him (playing on Shigaraki’s weakness: fear of trusting others and planning to use that quirk and Shigaraki’s pain for his own purposes; he’s not trying to heal Shigaraki’s trauma).

Saving the League is the same thing. For one, Shigaraki cares about the League, so he has to save the League to show Shigaraki “see how much I care.” For another, the League gives Shigaraki power, with AFO apparently says this chapter, so it serves AFO’s purpose as well and gives potential to use his caring for his comrades against him. The League loves Shigaraki, so AFO wants to use that love of Shigaraki, which means he’s going to have to keep Shigaraki around to keep the League around, or else Shigaraki’s power is lessened. He’s not trying to hide that he’s currently possessing him, though, because he probably does plan to do it permanently eventually (it won’t work). He even said as much this chapter as well: he wants Tomura to hone his (Tomura’s) hatred, but the League is also nurturing Tomura’s healing.

As for Shigaraki himself, I would be shocked if AFO doesn’t use this to manipulate him into letting AFO take over more “see how your comrades almost died! see how much I care!” However, Shigaraki very much has his own identity and isn’t particularly keen on letting AFO possess him. He needs the League to remind him whom he is and this is where AFO is building AFO’s own downfall without realizing it: a selfish, self-centered man who thinks everything is his doesn’t get that Shigaraki is so cared for because he doesn’t treat his comrades like everything belongs to him and like they are his property, but instead his friends.

No, Shigaraki not being the final boss does not mean he dies. Few villains in BNHA die anyways (like... even the most vicious of them, Musclar and Chisaki, are still alive). But those villains were introduced and dispatched in one arc; Shigaraki has been built up throughout the entire series. His story will matter for the endgame. AFO being the final boss likely means a Shgiaraki+Deku team up at some point to defeat a common enemy, not a death. (The emphasis on Deku noticing Shigaraki wanted to be saved from AFO’s bodily possession also might be a good sign that Shigaraki needs to be saved physically as well as spiritually/mentally, aka survive the redemption).

As for wanting him not to be in pain... unfortunately, villains suffer, and villains who get redemption, as Shigaraki most likely is going to, suffer even more. I’m  not saying this is a moral thing like “they must suffer or no redemption for you!”, but this is how things tend to go in stories. Shigaraki, Dabi, and Toga will suffer (as Enji does as well). But suffering shouldn’t always end in death, and I don’t think it will for the three of them (but it’s way too soon to say; the endgame is where this will be decided and honestly, we’re at least a hundred chapters from that if not more).