#also some of the backlash has just felt super misogynistic

[potter-inthe-tardis]

Not to say something so capitalist as a socialist, but I kind of don't care if the Barbie movie is actually some big ploy to sell more barbies, its been so much fun to see people excited about something that is at its core is made for girls enjoyment, for a traditionally feminine interest to be celebrated not ridiculed. Also at least its propaganda to buy dolls not like military propaganda or something

[duhragonball]

On Twitter, there’s a new movement that started up on... Thursday, I guess, with the hashtag #SpeakingOut, where women were encouraged to call out instances of sexual abuse.     I’m not sure if it started with the pro wrestling community or not, because earlier in the week I saw some stuff about comic book pros like Warren Ellis and Cameron Stewart, but maybe that was a precursor.   All I know is that right now, I’ve been seeing all sorts of names being dropped in the pro wrestling business, each of them accused of being sexual predators, or covering up for the crimes of others.    Some of the names I don’t recognize, because they’re independent wrestlers from promotions I’m not familiar with, but I’ve seen some names I do know, and that’s pretty tough to take.   I’m going to discuss this here. 

Predictably, I’ve seen some backlash to #SpeakingOut, which reminds me of the same bullshit talking points used by the #IStandWithVic crowd last year.   In case you didn’t know, Vic Mignogna was a voice actor who worked for Funimation and provided the dub performances for Broly in DBZ, and Eward Elric in Fullmetal Alchemist.   I think those were his two most famous roles.   Over the decades, Vic garnered a reputation for being a sex pest, kissing and inappropriately touching women and teenage girls at conventions, and harassing his colleagues.  I assume the release of the “Dragon Ball Super: Broly” movie in the U.S. in 2019 precipitated a newfound interest in those allegations, and fans started objecting to his bookings at 2019 conventions.    By mid-year, Vic was fired from Funimation and RoosterTeeth, and he responded to this by starting an ill-advised defamation lawsuit.   

Vic’s defenders are, to put it mildly, idiots.    There were professional lawyers on Twitter who explained, very clearly, why this lawsuit was a bad idea.   The main reason being that it was done in Texas, which has a lot of laws designed to make it harder to sue people for defamation.    I think Vic’s goal was to find some way to punish his accusers for making him look bad and getting him fired.   Winning the lawsuit, was a way for him and his supporters to feel like they “cleared his name”, except that was never how it worked.   If he had been arrested and tried for sex pest crimes, the burden of proof would be on his accusers to show that he really did bad things.   But he was suing people for slander, so that means the burden of proof was on him to show that they really were saying things that were demonstrably false and damaging to his reputation.    The main problem with that is everyone had been talking about his sex pestery for years, so it doesn’t make sense to single a few people out in 2019 and blame them for reinforcing something everyone already believed.  But the ISWV crowd kept insisting that this distinction didn’t matter, and that it was wrong to ostracize or turn against Vic without “proof”.   I see the same demands for “proof” being tossed around for all these wrestling personalities.  

I think there’s a couple of things going on with this.   One is simple denial.   If you’re a fan of someone and you find out they did something terrible, you really don’t want to believe it.   I was never that into a lot of these guys, but I know I felt pretty low when I first heard about Vic’s shenanigans, because I liked his work.    And I’m feeling that way about Warren Ellis now.   Not a huge fan, but I liked some of his stuff, and now I feel a little guilty by association for ever liking that stuff in the first place.   It would be nice, I suppose, to just pretend that I hadn’t heard those accusations, or that they weren’t real.    Then I could just go back to the way things were before, without all the uncomfortableness.   I just can’t do that, but it seems like a lot of people can and will.   It’s not about “proof”, it’s about putting up some sort of barrier that will excuse them from confronting an unpleasant truth. 

I think this is why you see people going out of their way to defend Christopher Columbus and Confederate monuments.    They want to believe that there was something noble about that stuff, because the alternative is to admit that a lot of the things they learned in school aren’t true, and a lot of the “heritage” they cling to is built on white supremacy and slavery.    I don’t think anyone really cares about a Robert E. Lee statue, but I’ve seen people go out of their way to try to say Lee opposed slavery, like he’s one of the good Confederates, so he should get a pass.   Except he did own slaves, and even if he hadn’t, he still fought to defend a nation founded on slavery as a guiding principle.    Tearing down a statue of Lee is a tacit admission that Lee never deserved a statue in the first place, and everyone who admired him was wrong, and maybe the admiration was rooted in racism all along.   That’s a bitter pill for people to swallow, and a lot of them just refuse to swallow it.   So they deny and deflect, and do anything they can to make this about something else.   

The other side of it is just plain hatred.   I don’t know if Vic’s defenders were all misogynists to begin with, but it seems like they all got there, one way or another.   The train of thought always seemed to be “He didn’t do these things, but even if he did there’s nothing wrong with it.”   From what I saw, it really seemed like Vic’s backers were all fired up about defending a man’s right to creep on women in any way he sees fit.   “What, so kissing is illegal now?” No, jackass, but when you’re fifty-fucking-five and you kiss a seventeen-year-old girl who only wanted to take a picture with you, it’s pretty damn messed up.    When you use your celebrity status to try to mack on young fans, that’s messed up.   When you’re an established wrestler and you try to take advantage of up-and-coming wrestlers, that’s messed up.    And some of that behavior is totally illegal, but the sad reality is that most of these creeps will never get prosecuted for any of it.   That’s why the calls for “proof” are so hollow, because everyone knows it’ll never end up in a courtroom.  At best, some of these guys will get fired, and guess what?  “Innocent until proven guilty” doesn’t apply to employers.   I lost a job once because my “teamwork” wasn’t good enough, and that was the closest thing to an explanation I got.    Don’t bullshit me about “proof”.

I guess I should tie this train of thought in with Black Lives Matter while I’m at it.    I find it absurd that the police in this country are so out of touch that when there’s a nationwide protest against police brutality, their immediate response is... more brutality.   This, more than anything I’ve seen, is the reason to defund the police.    They appear to only have the one mode of conduct, and they don’t even know how to do things a different way.    If the situation is this bad, we may as well scrap the police as they are and start over.   If the cops wanted to fix this situation, all they have to do is treat people with respect and hold themselves accountable, but they can’t let go of their hatred for five fucking minutes and figure that out.   This is why you hear about those guys who make up stories about restaurants spitting in their food.   They’re paranoid that everyone’s out to get them because they know they deserve to face some consequences, so they’re constantly on guard for this sort of thing.  It’s sick. 

Somehow, people who support these guys end up supporting the very behavior they were supposed to be denying.    Maybe this is why Columbus is such a sticking point.   I never gave a shit about Columbus.   One of my high school yearbooks had a Columbus theme because it just happened to come out on the 500th anniversary of his first voyage to North America, but I never understood what that had to do with my high school.   I think there’s people that want to give him tons of credit, basically thank him for everything that’s happened in the Western Hemisphere since 1500, not in spite of his atrocities, but to retroactively justify them.   What I mean is, if you can convince society that Columbus was a great man, and that his achievements outweigh his wrongdoing, then you can also convince society that the wrongdoings aren’t actually that bad.    “The price of progress,” they can say.    It’s like the idea that Robert E. Lee is admired solely for his “brilliant” military mind.   His side lost the fucking war, so I never understood how he gets all this credit for being a great general.    The point is that if you can convince people that he was a noble man in spite of the slavery thing, then you can open the door to the idea that the Confederacy as a whole wasn’t That Bad, and that only opens the door to the idea that slavery wasn’t That Bad, and so on.  

Same deal with Roman Polansky and Woody Allen.    It amazes me that people will still try to defend those fucks, but it probably has a lot to do with all the other sex pests in Hollywood, who hope that everyone will stick up for them when they get exposed.   So you have this little chesnut about how “Yeah, they did bad things, but they sure made some good movies.”     The implication is that you have to accept a few sex crimes if you want good art.    And no, that’s not true, and even if it were true, it wouldn’t be worth it.   

I don’t know where things will end up with J.K. Rowling.   I’d like to think that one of these days, she’ll wake up and apologize for all this TERF rhetoric she’s been spouting.    That would probably be the best-case scenario.   More likely, she’ll cause an entire generation of Harry Potter fans to wrestle with their loyalty to her books.   There’s no job to fire her from, no laws to punish her, no government agency to step in.    She’s got no financial stake in repairing this PR damage.   There’s going to be an audience of bigots that will still kiss up to her no matter what she says, so her ego will be well-insulated.    Maybe a hundred years from now, people will be talking about tossing her statue in a river, as society admits that we don’t need to accept transphobia in exchange for YA literature.   

I don’t know, I think I went all over the place with this one, but I had a lot to get off my chest.   I think the overall lesson from this year is that we can’t put these people on pedestals.   Some of them are just hell-bent on letting us down, and it’s just a matter of time before their misdeeds are brought to light.   I see these dopes with Thin Blue Line flags and “I stand with [X]” hashtags and I’m like “Who are you supporting here?    What is it you’re standing for, exactly?   Why should they be worthy of your loyalty?”    And I think the answer is less about loyalty to a person or group, and more about sticking it to someone else.   Women, minorities, whoever.   They just want to stand by someone to spite someone else.    And that’s awful.   

[minblush]

k-armys are spreading a tweet namjoon made in 2013 about korean independence where he says 'There is no future for people who have forgotten history' which shows he probably won't agree with working with a japanese imperialist, hopefully he still has this attitude in 2018 twitter(.)com/BTS_twt/status/367906282012831744

yeah i have seen them doing that ;; and fancafe and all the official tweets since then have been flooded with people talking about these things too, but bighit is playing dead fish so far :(

microwavehater said:Am i the only one who never believed that bts has ~creative freedom~ (anymore) ? If they (still) had, they’d use their influence to spread msgs like baepsae, not just love urself uwu (considering yoongi made political pre-debut releases &interview stuff) Also, their newer releases (LY her onwards) are v much lacking in the hiphop department which (i assume) was a marketing choice. Hiphop just doesn’t sell as well to a female audience (along w the fact that vocalists are the face of BTS).

i think they still have creative input but creative freedom definitely not, but it’s debatable if they ever had it anyway? idk.. and them moving on from hip-hop was definitely both trying to change things up as well as appeal to a broader audience, love yourself era overall was an attempt to basically touch as many people as possible, i don’t mind them changing their musical direction but what has bothered me was the loss of their involvement (because it is less)

Anonymous said:I totally agree with you about BTS losing their originality. I’m almost starting to get annoyed of them. Now bc they know people love their music for its topics such as mental health, etc I almost feel like they’re thinking that they’re obliged to constantly write music that only has a “social” message. I did not like Idol at all. It was pretty tacky and the idea of loving yourself seemed so forced in the lyrics. I want them to make songs about whatever they want at that moment. (1/?)

Anonymous said:Also every fan keeps saying the same thing about them being unfiltered when actually they’ve become SO filtered now. They’ve almost created this illusion of being super open with us when actually we barely know anything about them. I don’t mind that but I hate how they’re touting that as something that applies to them. Honestly most fans now are the bandwagon type and the fandom is starting to feel more like a cult versus a community like it used to. (2/2)

i don’t know if i ever talked about them losing their originality? because originality is debatable in this case too, if you mean their original intention then yes i agree with that, and i agree they definitely created the illusion, once i got out of the bts bubble a bit and also thought back to the old days, i realized how closed off and filtered everything is comparison to the past and even to other kpop groups nowadays that are way more direct, i feel like even exo is more outspoken these days and direct with their fans which i thought could never happen??? i used to stan them and it was hell hah.. and these days.. wowza..

Anonymous said:Fuck yesss we need new yoongi mixtape and i agree abt what you said i wish bts could read that and be like okay guys i think they are right we have done some questionable things and shit has to be addressed whether we like it or not and just fucking do so. Some fans will drop but some would drop anyway bc it is getting out of hand i would never want to call bts problematic bc shit i cannot imagine that being true but them supporting problematic people is kind of making them ones

i just feel like nothing will change because bang pd is too greedy.. he really is eyeing like building a global empire with all the business deals he has been making.. also bts have done plenty “problematic” things themselves, though not to that extent, but some of their actions have hurt a lot of people too, but it depends on what bothers you, i find colorism and things like that a problem, but ofc definitely different thing than pedophilia and such, i just meant to say that nobody is perfect

Anonymous said:Do you ever just wanna randomly bump into bts and be like “hey lets talk!” And then tell them about all these issues and fandom drama and just tell them to wake the hell up? Cos I do haha

well even if we bumped into them, most of them wouldn’t talk to you so dkajsdka

Anonymous said:i agree with everything you have said but what bothers me is he is a co produce of produce 48 and nobody really complained about it even though he is know for sexualizing minors... or did i miss something?? also i feel sorry for you getting hate you were just saying your opinion and people should start to accept some facts! it's not the first time bighit did something questionable ://

oh but actually when that was announced there was backlash? i remember seeing complaints about the producer as well as some of the trainees due to their supposed right wing associations, there were also complaints about women’s rights cause of the oversexualization of some of the girls back in japan and the producer’s lyrics, i think this backlash seems bigger or more visible to you because it’s happening in your fandom ;; that season of produce even ended up having the lowest rankings and voting participation so :/

Anonymous said:I have three words to describe the part of the fandom that blindly accepts all the things, even the problematic ones, BTS do. 'Situationally woke cult'.

that fits perfectly

Anonymous said:i rly appreciate sou voicing your thoughts even if they r not in essay form or refined for days. I agree with you on many things but at the same time it's not as disappointing to me bc I guess I never held them to high standards. like in the beginning I could kinda imagine that they were somewhat sincere (but still remained sceptical) but the more they got famous the more I accepted that that sincerity and authenticity would stop bc that's just the kind of business that kpop is... (♤)

Anonymous said:like it's an inherently dishonest industry. they sell an image just like everyone else, and at best(!!) they were as real as possible with us in the beginning. no doubt they wanted to be different from everyone else and it was easier as long as not that many people gave a fuck about them. but as soon as they started to this chance was over. so i guess what I'm saying is that my view didn't change and I'm not surprised, because I never really bought what they were trying to sell...(♤)

Anonymous said:I still love them, theyre likeable & adorable boys. but theyre not changing the world. they're not in the right kind of industry for that. they love their luxury expensive stuff & the glamour of it all & that's okay. I just take every concept the whip out w/ a grain of salt & a knowing smile & enjoy the entertainment. that's just my own two cents that nobody in the fandom wants to hear so I'm bothering u. & its not an analysis or anything just what is on top of my mind while watching TV lol (♤)

Anonymous said:(♤) oh ps. except for that whole controversial stuff with that misogynist jpn songwriter and supreme boy and what not. I take that seriously , I wont act as if that's just a cute quirk. but they're men so I didn't expect much lmaoo. I knew that those kind of disappointments are just part of the deal ever since I learned that jimin (a whole cutie pie and my ultimate bias) stans chris brown. definitely would kick jm in the shin for that if I ever got to meet him. at least keep it to yourself lol.

haha i wish you didn’t start this with a backhanded compliment but dkajsd yeah overall i see your point and agree... i understand like if you didn’t buy into that whole spiel, then of course you can just keep on going and stanning them as idols and all that comes with that, but many people and me included sincerely thought that they were different, i have stopped stanning kpop groups for a while and got drawn back in with bts because i felt they were so fresh and unique, genuine and open with fans in comparison to other groups i have stanned.. but ofc that image crumbled as time went on.. things have changed as well... and i agree, it’s fine to enjoy it for just the entertainment and like the boys as people, accepting they are just as any other idol.. and maybe i will continue with that perspective myself!! but i honestly find it difficult having believed in it and also bighit continually selling this image to their fans despite evidence of the contrary, i can deal with idol business but like continually being blatantly lied to and then being in a fandom where most of the rhetoric is build around blindly believing it and eating anything the boys and bighit sells? it’s honestly emotionally exhausting sometimes.. but yeah.. you’re honestly right.. even with the last point lol... they are men, and korean men at that sigh.. that’s why i’m burying myself in girl groups nowadays adkjsd to heal my soul

Anonymous said:Hope you have a wonderful day filled with only good things ❤ - the cutest person in the world

thank you so so so so much! you have a wonderful day too ♥ cutie

Anonymous said:simple question, not loaded at all, no wrong answer, the honest answer is the right answer- yaddah yaddah you get it -what do you think bangtan is lying about and what exactly are you saying overall? i just need the language simplified for my 3 braincells :) if i do get what you're saying - whether the actual members of bts are real or not, their message is. "dont let anyone tell you what to do" "live your own life and not a borrowed dream" "life is a marathon, not a race - go your own pace"etc

you can read this post as well as the tags to it to see some of the examples, i mean i have been saying lots of things so i don’t know what exactly you want me to clarify? i think their message is compromised when their actions contradict it, whether it’s their actions or bighit’s is up to debate, like i was talking about in the post though, you can’t have things both ways, can’t hail the boys as woke independent kings while propagating the idea that they are just the company’s pawns at the same time, if you accept their authenticity isn’t there then ofc it’s a different argument, and the things you have listed there may be true, but isn’t is soured knowing they are just things that are said in order to sell bangtan as a product to you? to me they are

Anonymous said:I'm not gonna disagree but I like to see all the sides of a story. Bang pd is their boss, bts made a contract with him, he will ALWAYS have the last word on, well, everything they put out. We like to think that bc bts has creative freedom they can do whatever they want, well obviously they can't. Even if bts wanted to talk more about issues and not work w bad ppl, bang pd wants them to succeed, he wants to make money bc it's his business and bts is the only thing bringing money to it.

i get this argument a lot and to that i will answer again this and this, i don’t understand what your point is exactly though, so you are saying bts are pawns that have to do as they ceo says, yes and? i am criticizing the decision he has made? i’m criticizing that what he cares about the most is money? that he will stop at nothing to widen his wealth and influence? i will not support bts cooperating with vile people just because it wasn’t -completely their decision-, i’m sorry i’m really struggling to see what your point is about the other side of the story, it’s a shitty situation and if they all go through with it, it be greatly disappointing