#also. there's probably a cut scene where gen and sophos both read this and are super into it??

[artino-c]

in retrospect this is such a funny gift:

The Mede ambassador, Melheret, gave the king a scroll. "I was so hoping for a statue," the king commented ungraciously as he received it. Most of those who heard him looked uncomfortable. The ambassador smiled condescendingly and said, "This is a story of my people, Your Majesty, the Epic of Omarak, who overreached and was struck down for it. I thought you might find it instructive." "Ambassador, I will surely give it the attention it deserves," the king promised.

[thewingedwolf]

Not Telling: A Study in How Much We are Actually Told About The Characters, Part One of Two

AKA that meta I started writing/promised to post fully a year ago and then never finished or posted bc I’m a mess. It’s being posted in two parts because it got a bit long.

So we all have our own idea of what the characters look like although many people believe the characters look roughly the same, with some minor differences from headcanon to headcanon. But what does the text itself tell us? The answer is...both more than I expected but also in keeping with Not Telling, not a whole lot at all.

I want to start this with a caveat that I kept very good notes on TT, ACoK, and TaT, mediocre notes on KoA and passable ones for QoA lol. however, it does give us a decent picture of what everyone looks likes. This is like 70% quotes and 30% extrapolation, but I try to explain my thought process on some of my conclusions.

Eugenides:

There’s a few instances that I remember reading (mostly in The Thief) that I forgot to mark but I know all of those dealt with his height and hair - that his hair is long, that it’s dark, and that he’s smaller than Pol and the Magus. So here we go:

“..the man wearing it was tall. Taller than I was, of course, but taller than the magus as well.” - Note that he’s talking about the one of the gods here, which indicates that

eugenides is very short at this point

the magus when compared to other people is probably pretty tall

“Scabs that were black against my prison-fair skin.” - Indicates that his skin has lightened noticeably since he was in prison although that’s the only indicator we get about what he looks like until literally the very ending with...

“He mentioned an Eddisian mother to explain his dark coloring.” - Which is exactly what I mean in Not Telling - we are told enough to have a clear blue print of him, but we are left to fill in the details of how he looks.

About his wound: “it’s taken a divot out of your face...it might heal clean.” and “I was quite certain I’d have a feather-shaped white scar.” - Note that Eugenides thinks this is a sign of approval from the Eugenides the god.

We get just as little in The Queen of Attolia, although note that this is the first time we are getting Gen from someone else’s point of view, instead of him describing himself:

“...his dark hair covering his face...He’d grown...he was not quite her height, but with his hair cropped short under his helmet, she hadn’t looked twice at him when she had seen him.” - that’s the only real description we get of him in the beginning of QoA before It Happens, and it’s from Irene’s point of view. There’s also several references to him looking “young” “naive” and “guilless” - young pops up about half a dozen times, and she remarks often on him being “a boy” and “half-grown.” Obviously part of that is guilt, but I did want to note that when we’re in Gen’s mind, he doesn’t focus on how short or young he looks, but when we’re in someone else’s mind, they immediately zero in on how young and small Gen is.

There’s a lot of descriptions of him after The Thing but it’s all involved in how sick he looks ie bruises showing against his yellowed skin, being so pale that his scar looked dark against his skin, that he’s lost a lot weight, stuff like that. It gives us the sense that he is very sick but no real indication of how he looks when he’s not suffering from fever and blood loss.

“His dark hair blended into the darkness behind him…” - first physical description in KoA

“The Queen was several inches taller than Eugenides…” in KoA during the dance scene

“His usually dark skin was so pale the scar on his cheek showed against the lighter skin around it.” - during the assassination attempt

“Costis was sufficiently taller than the king…” - I think this is our first reference to Costis being very tall, but of course nowhere near our first reference to Gen being short.

“His face was pale, his normally dark skin yellowed.” - My note has nothing to do with his look, but the fact that his skin is usually dark but is now both pale AND visibly yellow makes me think his liver was damaged by the assassin and that’s why it took so long to heal.

“He chose Mede coats with the long bell sleeves because no fighting man who’d seen the muscles in the king’s wrist would have underestimated him the way the Attolians had. His other wrist with no hand at the end of it appeared oddly narrow and delicate. Costis tried not to stare and found himself looking instead at the king’s scars. The long line across his belly was an angry red, but there were other marks: ragged tears around his knees and elbows, and lighter shining bands around his ankles that could only be the mark of fetters, as well as the various lines left by edged blows on his chest and arms, and one long one on his thigh. There were also a number of bruises, some newly purple and black and some fading almost to nothing. Costis wondered where they could have come from.” - WHEW long description for the first time and its all about Gen’s scars.

“...skinny and prison pale, incongruous with the clean clothes the Magus had picked out for him.” - Sophos’ PoV from AcoK. This seems to imply that Gen is usually darker than he is in the Thief - which we’ve been told before, that he’s darker skinned but stints in prison and a number of serious injuries seem to frequently make him look sickly and pale - but also that he’s usually heavier - whether that means, like Sophos believes, that Gen is normally not as skinny or that he’s gained weight since becoming Attolis is anyone’s guess.

“I kept going until I could see his face, see every detail—the quirk of his eyebrow, the twist at the corner of his mouth, the mark on his cheek, where he’d said the Attolian guards had once shot him when he was running away…” - Kamet’s description of him.

“I remembered him as a boy, small for his age. I found him taller, broader in the shoulder, much older than the intervening years would explain, with a hook where his hand had been—wholly changed, in fact, but for the scar on his face and that smile.” - Gen is finally like a normal height lmao, but also he’s gotten bigger in general, which seems to imply IMO that re: Sophos’ assessment earlier, most of the weight (and likely muscle as Costis points outback in KoA) is the result of his time in Attolia and not weight he lost in jail. But whether THAT is due to him like, eating more potentially or having a different fighting style/routine that is bulking him up, or just a natural consequence of getting older or a combination of the two is again, your guess.

Helen:

“By far the least attractive of the women stood up.”

“She had black hair, like Attolia, and her gown was red velvet...tended to stand like a soldier. The ruffles on her shoulders made her arms seem long enough to reach to her knees. Her nose had been broken and reknitted crooked, her hair was cut short like a man’s and curled so much over her simple silver crown that crown itself was nearly invisible.” - all Gen’s point of view.

“She was short and too broad to be called petite. Her father had been broad shouldered, Attolia remembered, and not over-tall. Eddis had a serious expression.” - From QoA, in Irene’s pov. It seems the shortness of Gen is something that runs in the family.

“She’s ugly...she’s short, she’s broad-shouldered, and hawk-faced with a broken nose. I would say no, she is not ideal...I’ve seen men fall on their knees and get to walk across hot coals for her after one of those smiles.” - Gen talking about her with the Magus. I feel like it’s relevant that Gen calls her “the least attractive” when he’s with her, but only “ugly” when talking about her with other people.

“You look a little vulpine yourself.” - probably more a personality quirk than anything, but I still wanted to include it.

“Eddis reached to touch her own crooked nose. ‘If I laughed,’ she said, ‘it is only at the idea that we make a matched pair now, you and I.’” - for both her and Sophos here. Love flirting in the form of pointing out your irregularities, girl’s got game.

“The queen of Eddis is as beautiful as the day and as brilliant as the sun in the sky..he chuckled and quoted Praximeles about beauty being in the heart and not the eye..” - obviously Sophos’ opinion is colored by his love for her, but STILL, he does offer a description that she’s beautiful, is immediately contradicted by Akretenesh, and then basically thinks “it’s not my fault you’re stupid as fuck.”

Irene:

“Her hair was black and held away from her face by an imitation of the woven gold band of Hephestia. Her robe was draped like a peplos, made from embroidered red velvet. She was as tall as the magus, and she was more beautiful than any woman I had ever seen.” - Gen’s PoV in the Thief. We have a hint of his feelings for her in the way he describes her, and also there’s her Hephestia cosplay as well.

“Her hair was held away from her face by the ruby and gold headband that crossed her forehead just above her dark brows. Her skin was flawless and so fair as to be translucent. She dressed as always in an imitation of Hephestia.” - Gen calling out her Hephestia cosplay lmao. I also notice that she’s specifically not just “fair skinned” like Sophos or other Attolians, she’s described as almost weirdly pale.

Sophos:

I KNOW I forgot to mark a scene where Eugenides describes Sophos in TT as like...fair or pink-cheeked or something like that but I’ll be damned if I can find it.

“They were both obviously well bred...I wondered if they were brothers...the older one had darker hair and was better looking.” - obviously the older is Ambiades.

“One member of the crowd, a young man with a broken nose, a lip twisted by scar tissue, and dirty clothes that combined to suggest a person of violent and criminal habits…” - good description that also tells us that Useless the Younger looks significantly different since we saw him four books (and several years) ago. It’s not just that he’s older, or scarred, it’s that he *looks* dangerous now.

“I was taller than Malatesta by inches.” and “I wasn’t heavier than [Hyacinth] but I was taller and bore him to the ground.” - both give us an approximation of his height, weight, and strength.

“I felt my upper lip and rubbed my thumb against the scar tissue. I could feel it distorting my mouth. My nose had a new bump in the middle of it as well.” - scar healing badly

“Measuring myself against [The Magus], I realized we now saw eye to eye.” - considering several references to how tall The Magus is (which we’ll get to), this means Sophos is incredibly tall.

“...my hair all cut away and ragged.” and then they mention they dyed it. Once they get to Attolia however, “A barber came in to trim and shave us, taking off the last of my darker hair and leaving it tidy, if short.” So it’s gone back to his natural color, but this implies he usually wears his hair long.

There’s also a mention of him eating a lot, which isn’t a physical description, but does, IMO, imply something to his size - like how many sheer calories a lot of Olympic athletes have to eat a day.

“I smiled until I felt the scar tissue tighten...I had never let him see what I looked like when I smiled: my uncle.” - ICONIC.

ALSO - Sophos is frequently compared to animals. These animals include a lamb, lion, rabbit, bunny, puppy, and then back to lion.

Costis Ormentiedes:

I couldn’t find any description of him beyond a few references to him being tall in KoA which either means that I just missed it bc I got to emotional over KoA (which is likely) OR we don’t get a real description of Costis until TaT which is an interesting choice. ONWARDS:

“He was a very large Attolian…” - Kamet’s first impression of Costis, yet again reminding us how big Costis is

“He was a typical Attolian: sandy-brown hair, a broad face, light-colored eyes. Altogether he had a simple, straightforward look to him, and he seemed perfectly serious.” - gives us a general idea of what Attolians as a people look like.

“He was large, as I already knew, and a soldier. He had the scars on his hands and forearms and the unmistakable muscles from swinging a sword day in and day out. I had no doubt he was good at what he did - he rather reminded me of an ox, very strong, not terribly quick - but I thought killing was his work, not his pleasure….he moved easily, so he was no veteran crippled’s in his country’s service, but he was too young to have done his twenty years - my own age, or perhaps younger.” - Lots of information here from Kamet. The ones that stick out to me are: moves easily, which means Costis has likely not even been minorly injured before, but he has scars, which of course means he’s had a lot of flesh wounds. The other thing is that Kamet instinctively knows that Costis doesn’t like killing - I don’t know if that means Kamet is a good judge of character or if there’s something about Costis, whether it be the way he carries himself, or something physically like his expressions, his youth, his eyes, that tells Kamet this, but it *could* be something physical.

Kamet makes several references to Costis being hot lmao. He uses the word “attractive” several times in several different chapters and others agree with this assessment.

“She sent him to the potter to see if he could use a young man with a strong back.” - more comments about how ripped Costis is.

Kamet

Couldn’t find any description of Kamet in QoA, and he doesn’t really describe himself in TaT. I’m worried I missed something, but this is what I found:

“Normally as warm-toned as myself…” - Kamet comparing his own skin tone (undertone?) to Laela’s.

He also describes himself as small and skinny compared to Costis several times - once saying his face is roughly at level with Costis’ chest - and mentions flogging scars on his back.

EDIT: THANK YOU FOR COMMENTS, we get this like in QoA about Kamet: “The slave’s almond shaped eyes and red-brown complexion set him apart from the Attolians.”

—————

Not sure how to end this but anyway that’s what we’re given for the main PoVs. Surprisingly, we get more description for Helen than we do for Irene, and barely any for Kamet. There were some things that I had misremembered - I thought Gen was described as “brown skinned” but instead it’s “dark skinned” or “dark coloring” and I thought he described Helen as ugly more than once, but it’s just to the Magus, when they’re discussing Sounis’ potential marriage, which is....interesting to me, and sounds a lot more like Gen trying to downplay his cousin so the Magus will fuck off, especially when he offers Agape as an alternative that is, notably, prettier and also holds significantly less power. I also thought Costis was described as “blonde” or “fair haired” like Sophos but instead he’s “sandy brown” and I think the idea of him being Blonde was a fandom thing that I just misremembered.

[thecrenellations]

Thick as Thieves Undead-Blog, Part Two | when your liveblog wakes up to drink some broth then goes back to sleep smiling because it trusts you | my notes from reading the book for the first time, Spring 2017

Format: Page number. My ridiculous thoughts (Context???)

Part One

Chapters 6-13:

Ch. 6 - Very intense chapter in which Kamet and Costis are captured by the slavers and escape

163. Costis <3 Muscles Good looking! (wow what a way to start this post)

one hot piece of attolian manflesh ... confirmed (people would call him this on LJ! I forgot about it for several years until reading this passage)

164. omg earring swallowed!

166. amanuensis? (perennial thanks to mwt for all the vocab words)

168. shit. severed hand.

172. wtf Costis don’t kill him

173. how do you silently kill someone like that?

174. wow fuck

men dead not even breathing hard. (compare to KoA assassination)

Everyone is a monster!

176. Thieves.

Ch. 7 - Lots of good conversation, potentially symbolic animals, and a surprise Eugenides

183. Grt scene (apologies)

184. now who’s asking rude questions? (about killing people)

186. lying to him <3

ok! unreliable narrator!

wait i thought they didn’t have slaves in Attolia?!

187. “I was unappreciated” ... I’m always lonely

so cute

188. me when mwt writes: what is this blatant unabashed fanservice?

WHO IS THIS BOY?!

189. Onarkus =/= Sandy?

190. okaaay #confirmed Gen!

191. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Boots

195. he caught a snake (associated with a certain king and assumed bootboy “you viper” “you are a poisonous little snake” ... another ominous dead animal)

Is Costis’s earring for Eugenides (I was thinking of the god!)

196. a goat and a snake .... how poetic

Costis stalks goat ...

197. hmmm.... goat and hand and last trace of Nahuseresh (OMINOUS)

does Irene know her husband was a bootboy?

203. no this what? (“trouble with a maid” story exchange)

Marin?

204. he was prepared to run away??

how old was he?

well this is a lot to chew on

205. K using past tense for N

C asking about slaves killed after emperor’s death... does he know?

Ch. 8 - This road trip was going great until SOMEONE fell in a well

208. Are Taymets taller than Eddisian mountains?

210. time passing, broad and focused

212. MY Attolian

classic minor mwt characters

215. singing Costis???

216. swearing gimme a break

please don’t let the Namreen kill them later...

217. Kamet says very little of what HE did/his interactions w them!

218. wot nice cut! (“Eleven days later...”)

gods?

219. “water finds a way” a saying from Eddis? how does C know that? also brings to mind QoA weather passages

Why doesn’t Kamet ask/wonder WHY Gen wants him?

223. They’re gonna do it? They’re gonna make it? So close!

224. does Eddis have comparable irrigation engineering?

227. NO!

228. u idiot you meant to leave him before!!!

at least look in the freaking well!!!

229. Kamet’s Face! wow he’s really in shock (at weapons shop)

230. SUCH FAMILIAR PHRASING! birds :( (I was caught up in the birds and completely missed the spilled wine!)

Ch. 9 - Retrieving Costis from the well, Ennikar appears again

231. “You’re certain he’s dead?” nice CUT

this time i heard him say?

was he talking?

232. thoughtfully tensing his lower lip?

who tf is this guy - another god?

mm grr I’m Kamet I have no friends

ok so he’s what’s his face Enkidu?

heroes walk the streets

234. AAH why

say his fricking name?!

god you’re so bad @ this

236. THIEF

237. FRIEND OMG

238. omg so good flour!

SO CUTE I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS

239. OMG Costis. Nice. (Costis tries the Gen method of deflecting concern)

241. “as if we were close friends traveling together???”

242. Costis ... knows a hero when he sees one?

But ... delighted? not horrified?

Ch. 10 - Hanging out with Godekker

247. SO MANY HELPFUL STRONG MEN (Enter Godekker)

249. PAY THE FASTENER

253. god so snarky

254. Kamet’s chops

fuck how is this book going to end???

256. You’ll never feel safe ... Gen + Relius’s fears?

258. Fuh!

259. Ok do i have hope?

he doesn’t have Tethys lesions does he?

263. aahhhh

Costis trusts him!!!! <3

aaahhh

264. Noli? where did he get that from?

smarrrt

265. yeah u did tell Godekker your name!

wtf is this god advice!

268. The So, so, so count in this book is OUT OF CONTROL!!! It may be a record.

Ch. 11 - Kamet’s stressful voyage

270. Lol Sophos is better @ assuming Attolian ships are there...

272. yesssss earring GOOD

274. yeah sure Kamet you still haven’t left!

I did not want to leave the Attolian!

276. watching Costis

277. my heart’s gonna break don’t leave, Kamet!

278. “as if the gods had cursed my wandering feet” nice. also iambic pentameter

also laying it on a bit thick there

280. Sea in the Middle of the World!

he’s so scared though. :(

the fuckin nerve!

Costis + Gen and their s3cr3t sign

281. nooooo it’s ok to lie, it’s endearing in this world!

also Costis seriously why do you think he would be ok w/ this!

I’m coming home! (to Attolia. In cursive, see image at top of post.)

282. war?

Ch. 12 - Dramatic times in Attolia

284. “I thought we were I + E” :o

shit where is his honor now (”I would have let you go”)

285. hey there Teleus...

my heart

285. yeah but C probs knows all those guards ... he thought punching Gen was the most embarrassed he’d been... (in retrospect, I don’t think he was embarrassed AT ALL during this scene. Costis fight mode was activated.)

yeah I mean she has given us the Magus all this time! (reflecting on the fact that Costis’s name has yet to appear)

286. Yesss angry Costis poking Teleus!

This is Something to imagine

287. THIS IS REALLY BAD (”the queen”)

OK...

holy shit

when is this???

she’s not THAT old!

288. THE room? (“filled with all the horrors I had fled in Ianna-Ir”)

289. 298 pages until this! (“Costis”)

289. Please stay alive Irene!

On some level I do feel that my childhood is ruined w the confirmation they banged. :( Gen is like 20! (Listen. I love them. I'm very happy for them. This is not exactly breaking news. 20-year-olds, and this one in particular, can obviously do anything they want. This note brought to you by me being Too Ace For This and having been both younger and older than him since first reading the books a very long time ago...)

292. Gggennn

293. Is this court respect a recent development? WHAT DID I MISS? (they watched him fight the entire guard, is what, c’mon me. Costis hit him on the head with an amphora.)

yeah we get it people underestimate Eugenides

OH MY COSTIS

294. is this Annux by any chance?

Boys ur making a scene!

King of Attolia vs of Attolians?

295. very ... dramatic

this is ... a private convo?

297. yup he’s Eddis’s best stalker!

Ch. 13 - Everything else that happens in this book!

298. “Do they know?” yeah wtf Gen

it’s like the new “and every1 was naked” (in KoA)

“and every1 was watching”

300. Gen: Yo Helen can u bring me that one coin?

Helen: sure. no prob

301. “Poor Costis”

yeah Melheret always sneaks up

302. “You’ve come from the prisons, not how an honored guest is usually received” UM ACTUALLY...

305. Kamet.... (crying in his room)

306. “the kind of Attolia sitting on the footboard” oh my god yeah classic

307. Irene comes thru with the stats

Was Kamet at the battle at Ephrata?

310. talk with the kitchen staff good god i would like to know. So bizarre.

lol toting around an ambassador all nite? What would Teleus say?

while Irene’s sick ...

WTF will Costis do now?

312. names ... Kamet ... Ormentiedes? 

Creeeeeeeeepy Relius (probably about “there are some questions you might answer for us” but possibly about the cutting up and feeding to wolves comment)

314. business arrangement uh sure

Yeah ok write it all down

316. talking to Costis?

(a note: the version I read was an advance reader copy, and the only major difference was that it did NOT include the scene with “the young Erondites”)

318. Attolia smiled at him!

anything worth doing is worth overdoing lol

319. alternate readings of poem?

322. orange trees!

cabbages!

324. sent Onarkus away RECENTLY???

Is Brinna Sandy!

Seriously. 

Cooks r weird (thinking about the entry for cooks in the Tough Guide to Fantasyland)

326. the magus!

an ACHING void

oh I know I’ll just GO!

poor Gen can’t have any friends...

331. they have duffles in Attolia

and with Attolian duffles, the story ends! Thanks for reading, feedback is welcome. I promise I have more developed thoughts about this book. For another weird journey, listen to my Thick as Thieves playlist, maybe.

[souridealist]

So I finally got hold of a copy of Thick as Thieves

And may have reflexively clutched it to my chest in the bookstore like it was a long-lost friend, don’t look at me. Scattered reactions underneath the cut! (Scroll like hell if you’re on mobile; there’s major spoilers but there’s also a rambly-ass wall of text to conceal them.)

I think it’s interesting, structurally, that it’s been three frickin’ books since we actually got anything at all from Eugenides’s POV even though it is very much his series. It does at least reinforce my impression of The Queen of Attolia as the central book in the series and no, I’m not just saying that because it’s my favorite, shut up.  But I do wonder if, since apparently the next book is going to be the last, if we’re going to end up with two triptychs: The Thief, The Queen of Attolia, and the unnamed last one as the main story, and The King of Attolia, A Conspiracy of Kings, and Thick as Thieves as the “spinoffs.” KoA is the least convincing as a spinoff, and the most Eugenides’ story out of the three, since it’s the story of how he took command of Attolia as much or more as it is the story of Costis gaining respect for him.

Sidebar: the way that I read these books was Exactly Wrong, because it was as follows: I read half of The Thief while entirely too young for it, forgot about it completely, received KoA several years later when it was the most recent in the series, and read through it with no more idea of what was going on than Costis. I wouldn’t recommend this - it was like never getting to read Queen of Attolia for the first time, just skipping ahead to the first reread - but it made for a really interesting experience of KoA, and I think probably an unusual one? And is probably why it took me until now to think “hey, Costis kind of stands in for all of Attolia in going from contemptuous of Gen to devoted!”

Anyway. Thick as Thieves is definitely a side-story, as is Conspiracy of Kings - I’d need to reread CoK to analyze it at all, but everything that’s relevant to the story of the Little Peninsula in ToT is in the last, oh, fifty pages? But both of them are, I think, the stories of how Eugenides affects other people. (And this is why I lumped KoA in with them earlier). In ToT it’s about Eugenides rearranging his life; in CoK it was about Eugenides inspiring Sophos to go from uselessly scholarly heir to king. They’re both about Gen’s impact, just as KoA is also about how Gen affects Costis. I really love the personal-vs-political pressures in this series, can you tell?

Speaking of personal-vs-political, I’ve seen a few intersections between this series’ fandom and that of the Vorkosigan books, which I have to stop myself from calling the Barrayar books on a regular basis. I think that pressure, personal and political playing off each other, probably draws people to both series. The end of the book, with Kamet getting fond of Attolia (and I do wish that that had more focus), made me want a particular kind of story – a story about how Attolia changes everyone who comes into her borders – and I think that also reminds me of the Barrayar books, because they also had that thread in them.

Anyway, back to the actual book I’m reacting to, here. I guessed that Costis was Costis very early on, but that wasn’t really meant to be a secret, and I liked that the moment when Kamet finally used his name still had impact even though we all knew by that point. I knew Kamet wasn’t going to be delivered and then thrown out, obviously – we know Gen’s not like that.  And we know that the series twists on you and there’s always more going on than you think, so I at least was looking for the twist the whole time. I guessed what it was wrong, though; I thought for a very large chunk of the book that Costis knew Nahuseresh was dead and hadn’t realized Kamet didn’t know he knew. Eventually I started realizing that I was wrong; I didn’t really have a replacement theory. I did guess that Kamet was being abducted for reasons other than annoying Nahuseresh, and that it was for the things he knew, but I’m not sure how much that counts as guessing the twist, given that we know Gen. I guessed that Gen was the disobedient Attolian servant Kamet was friends with, though I’m still a little vague on the timeline there – before Gen got his hand cut off, I think? Or was it an offscreen bit in QoA? Either’s possible. I did not guess that Nahuseresh was still alive, so, MWT’s still got it.

I was definitely expecting Ennikar or Immakuk to show up, and I do think Ennikar did, that feverish Costis had the right of it. I doubt we’re supposed to know, though.

Whatever was going on with Gen’s youngest attendant at the end went right past me – young Erondites? What? I thought there were only two Erondites children, Dite and Sejanus; was there a sister who’s now Gen’s sweet-Polly-Oliver attendant? What? I need a reread, I guess.

Her Highness Gitta Kingsdaughter is making me tear my hair with frustration. Who introduces something like that on a frontispiece map? Who? Who does that? Googling brought up interviews, and apparently she’s trying very hard to have her own story and MWT is trying not to write it, and. Tearing of hair, gnashing of teeth, why aren’t the other books in front of me!

And finally – until tomorrow, anyway – Costis/Kamet. Oh my God. I was actually… not expecting, but faintly hoping, that it was on purpose? It didn’t seem to be, and, well, I didn’t expect it, but I wish it had been there. Not just because I ship it like burning, although that’s true, but because… this series and I go a long way back, and it would have meant a lot to me to have a queer love story in a series that has been so important to me for so long. (See also: Nico di Angelo, intense feelings about.) And I got my hopes up, just a little, never really thinking I had a chance, so it stung a little. On the other hand, I was genuinely afraid for a while that they were going to part ways forever, so the relief of realizing that Gen was sending them off into the sunset together was a balm to that particular self-inflicted hurt.

Fangirl hat taking over from queer girl hat (not that they’re not often comorbid hats) – for fuck’s sake. “My Attolian.” Tongue-in-cheek talking about who could ever possibly be so foolish as to get romantically entangled, followed by staring at the sky and waiting for the other one to speak. The constant push-and-pull of power between the two of them, of Costis trying not to hold power and Kamet pushing them back into master-and-slave roles because that’s how he knew how to interact with the world – that is a damned fascinating dynamic whether it’s romantic or not, but I’m a person with a sexual interest in complicated power dynamics and it had my attention. Kamet’s complete shutdown when he thought Costis was dead, and complete inability to abandon Costis to his illness. That fucking scene where Costis and his bulging muscles pull Kamet close by the replacement chain and tear the inks apart. I know what I want for Yuletide. (They also get a tag.)  

[lazybarbarians]

The Thief, by Megan Whalen Turner

Kalinara: So it was my turn to pick the book again, and I decided to step away from Star Wars for a bit. I did however keep things in the Young Adult field by choosing The Thief by Megan Whalen Turner.

The Thief is one of those books that is very hard to review, because it’s very easy to say too much about this very simple story. Fortunately, we have a cut tag.

Okay, so the Thief is a pretty basic story about Gen, a the titular thief of course, who has been recruited out of the king’s dungeon (he stole the King’s seal and was caught bragging about it) for a very important quest.

You see, the King of Sounis (Gen’s not-so-amiable host) is looking to marry the Queen of a neighboring kingdom, Eddis. Eddis is a mountain kingdom that separates Sounis from the enemy nation of Attolia. If Sounis marries Eddis, then he’ll have a clear path to attack Attolia.

Ragnell: Worth pointing out, Sounis is a dick.

K: Eddis however will have none of Sounis’s advances. So the Magus in service of the King has hatched a plan. In Eddis lore, there is a mythical stone, called Hamathes’s Gift, which is supposed to grant immortality and the rightful rule of Eddis to whoever holds it. The catch is that the stone’s power doesn’t work if it’s stolen. It must be given to its bearer for the power to work. But the loophole is that the stone can be stolen, and then given to someone else. The person who steals the stone and becomes kingmaker is known as the “King’s Thief”. This stone was lost many years ago, so now the throne passes through basic heredity like any other kingdom.

R: Told you, he’s a dick.

K: The Magus believes he has discovered the location of the stone and intends to use Gen to help him steal it so it can be given to Sounis. Sounis will then use the stone and its symbolic power to force Eddis to marry him and seize her kingdom that way.

The story is, at first glance, a very straightforward and entertaining quest story. Gen is our narrator and he is both charming and obnoxious. He travels with the Magus, the guard Pol, and two students, Ambiades and Sophos.

But it’s not quite that simple, Gen is a thief. He was in the King’s dungeon, having been caught bragging after stealing the King’s seal. Gen told us all of this early on. What he did not tell us is that he is Eddisian. And not just any thief. He is the Queen’s Thief. A role that has, like the role of King/Queen, become hereditary since the loss of the stone.

The amazing thing about the reveal is that it’s so seamless. Gen is our narrator, and his account is so frank, deft and thorough that it seems impossible for something that big to have escaped our notice.

R: It was a good reveal, but it struck me as kind of a cheat. It’s very sudden and she didn’t really give all that many hints that the narrator was hiding something.

K: I actually disagree with you there. It’s true that on a first read, there is very little indication that Gen is hiding something, but there is a lot to unpack on a second read. A lot of things that seem very abrupt are actually seeded from the very first chapter. But you have to know what you’re looking at.

The main thing is Gen is not actually intentionally deceiving the reader. As the end shows us, the story is his account as written to his cousin Eddis. He doesn’t mention being the Thief of Eddis because she already knows who he is. It’s not a matter of misdirection as much as it is a matter of interpretation. But from the reader’s perception, it completely changes everything, not just the chapters going forward, but all of the previous chapters as well.

Everything he says has a different nuance and meaning when you actually know the truth. For example, there is a scene when he is talking to the younger student, Sophos, and corrects his assumption about Gen’s family by stating that his sisters are happily married and his brothers are a watchmaker and a soldier. When I’d first read it, I’d assumed that Gen came from a middle class family but had instead chosen a life of crime. Once we know the truth, well, these well-married women, watchmaker, and soldier, also happen to be satellite members of the Eddisian royal family.

It’s not just bigger things like that though. Even little details have the same kind of dual perception. One example that springs to mind early on in the story is when the Magus, annoyed with Gen, demands that he stop chewing with his mouth open. Gen does so, which was difficult, as he had been chewing with his mouth open “assiduously” since he’d left the prison. The word means “with great care and deliberation”, and I had figured that meant that Gen was being deliberately obnoxious. But on reread, it’s clearer that what Gen meant was actually the “great care” part. Gen is a royal cousin of the Queen of Eddis trying to convince the Magus that he is peasant boy with more ability and ego than sense. He was carefully sticking to his masquerade.

I think this story says some really interesting things about perception and assumption. I am a person who often figures out twists before they are revealed, or at least, I often pick up on something not quite right, even if I don’t figure it out in its entirety. But I didn’t see this one.

R; Yeah. What struck me were the family details. From the description of the mother I was expecting them to get to Eddis and learn that he’s actually next in line for the position or something. So it was in line with everything, but still a major surprise when you find out he’s been in the position for a while and was actually the person the magus brought up earlier in the book.

K: And I think it’s because I went in assuming I knew what the story was. I read the first chapter went “okay, kid in jail, was skilled but sloppy and arrogant, got caught by his own ego” and figured okay, this is going to be a coming of age type quest story where the kid learns humility and wisdom. So whenever Gen said something about his life and his family and his backstory, I filtered it through that context. I thought Gen’s account was complete, because I was filling in the holes with my own assumptions. Just like the Magus.

Gen isn’t the only one concealing important facts on this mission though. Which makes it even more fun. Sophos is, in fact, the very disappointing heir to the throne of Sounis (nephew of the current King), who had been sent to study with the Magus because he was otherwise so hopeless. Pol is no mere bodyguard, but the Captain of a royal guard. While Ambiades is a traitor and spy. No one is exactly what they seem.

R: Ehh.. Ambiades you could see coming. He’s bitter, cruel, and acting strangely and is from an aristocratic line that lost their fortune. It was pretty clear he stole the food and honestly, I thought he’d taken the Gift too. Sophos was a surprise, though. Sounis is not only a dick, he’s kind of an idiot to put BOTH the living heir and the chance of a future heir in this basket.

K: Another part of the story that I find very interesting is the way they incorporate the myths and legends. Especially in terms of the Magus, who isn’t that bad a guy despite his mission. (He truly believes that uniting Sounis and Eddis would be the best thing for both countries.) The Magus starts from an idea that preserved records are better than the word of mouth tellings of the people who believe it, because of the way people change the story. He argues that the people of Eddis use the wrong, old pronunciation for their country when the rest of the civilized world has “moved on”. He is an academic in the driest sense of the word, but he seems to start getting an appreciation for how myth/religion and language are as much about people as they are historical record.

I think this growing appreciation for the human side of things is what helps him deal with his eventual defeat with some grace.

R: Yeah, and of the unlikeable at the beginning characters the magus is actually the one who turns out the best once you get to know him. I’m glad he made it through safely. I was more glad, though, that Ambiades didn’t. I really hated that kid.

K: Probably the last character worth noting is the Queen of Attolia. At this point, she’s more of a concept than a character. We know she’s beautiful, cruel, and that Sounis apparently fears her enough to allow the Magus to embark on a crazy artifact-hunting quest with his heir. But so far, she hasn’t even had as much development as Sounis himself. Though, given that the next book in the series is called “The Queen of Attolia”, that’s probably due to change.

[convenientalias]

@attoliasirenides said @convenientalias so why queen of attolia?  (attempt to start a conversation about my favorite book and character of all time even though KOA is better written QOA has more Irene.                            

(Sorry I can’t respond to comments, I can only copy and paste...but anyways...let me talk about QoA for just a minute pls. I said it was my favorite book and I did not lie. Also, no one ever asks me stuff like this.)

There are a couple reasons. First of all it has to do with the time in my life when I read the books, since I read all of them months apart from each other. And of course I was shocked every time the style/POV changed. Queen of Attolia was the worst shock, since I had only read The Thief at that point, and I was probably a bit too young for it ;) so I had very mixed feelings. While there were elements I loved (which I will get to in a second) I hated how long it took Gen to get over his injury--the whole “recovering from trauma” aspect was something it took me a while longer to appreciate. And I was annoyed by the slow pace of the book. But then I reread it over and over again, and as I got older I appreciated it more and more.

I have a theory that eventually my favorite may become a different book in the series because I haven’t reread the others as much, but then there are other reasons it’s my favorite two.

So now the actual, slightly more objective reasons:

Queen of Attolia has the highest concentration of Irene. THIS IS A HUGE POINT IN ITS FAVOR. I’m just gonna say right now that I loved Irene even reading The Thief, and I was really excited when QoA made her more sympathetic without taking away her coldness and brutality, her ability to do what was necessary. If anything, it expanded on those aspects of her. I just really love female villains, and while Irene isn’t really a villain anymore, she still has everything I like about them: the power, the ruthlessness, the ability to actually effect change in the book and be a threat to the protagonist. SO cool. And she’s allowed to be those things and also be selfless, focused on her country rather than herself. And have a vulnerable side as well, and even fall in love. Without losing her edge. SUCH A GOOD CHARACTER.

Queen of Attolia also has a more coherent plot than King of Attolia. (Sorry, KoA, you’re right up there with my favorites but I’m gonna diss you right now.) For a couple reasons: One, it follows two main character arcs rather than skipping all over the place with side characters. Two, it has a clear objective: Get Gen out of his funk and end the war. Three, it has a well defined romantic subplot which ties the two main character arcs together. KoA is a good book but it doesn’t have a very centralized plot and it also lacks the epic stakes of QoA. It’s kind of like the difference in the Prydain Chronicles between, say, The Black Cauldron and Taran Wanderer: One is a game-changing tale of adventure and intrigue and the other is a character focused interlude.

KoA is focused on a smaller time frame and the development of matters at court, and showing one specific character’s rise to power: Gen. But we already know Gen is a good king, and we already know he’s going to get the court to respect him. It feels like a drawn out version of the end of QoA, with an added outsiders’ perspective. I think it’s necessary for the series (we do have to see how Gen gets his country’s loyalty), and it’s a lot of fun as a character study, but overall it’s just not as...large? It also feels more like a series of scenes than a novel, with every scene trying to outdo the last. Look, here’s Gen ATTACKED BY ASSASSINS. NOW HE’S MAKING OUT WITH THE QUEEN. But wait, wait, HE’S REVEALING SEJANUS’ TREASON! HE’S CONFRONTING RELIUS! But wait there’s more WE’RE SAVING TELEUS FROM CERTAIN DOOM. NOW WE’RE WALL CLIMBING! MY LIFE HAS BEEN SAVED BY THE GODS!

I love all these scenes but they come VERY close together. QoA has a better sense of pacing and rhythm.

QoA also feels more unpredictable. It has better twists. It has plot twists that threw me for a loop the first time round because you can see how they are set up but they still feel like they come out of nowhere. Whereas KoA has plot twists that come out of nowhere because you have no fucking clue what’s going on. Better written? I don’t see where you’re getting that.

It’s also easier to get emotionally invested in QoA. I’m going to be brutally honest here and upset half the fandom: I don’t care about Costis. He’s nice. But I don’t care about him. And do I care about Baron Erondites’ sons? Do I care about this random girl named Heiro who appears in like two scenes? Not really, no. I mean, Megan Whalen Turner MAKES me care about them, and now that I’ve read KoA I could discuss them for hours, but fundamentally I care about Irene and Eugenides a lot more than them (or than Sophos, which knocks out Conspiracy of Kings, another excellent novel). Now, KoA also does a great job with Teleus and Relius, which is great, and it did make me ultimately invest myself in Costis and Dite and Sejanus and whoever. But like. We also meet like five hundred other characters who only get a very base level of characterization because we just don’t have time. And that’s good, in that it sets up some fun and complex political intrigue. But when I’m trying to balance five different barons, eighteen attendants and six thousand other people, it’s hard for me to care about any of them individually. Oh, and btw, you know how KoA shows Gen from an outside perspective that gradually grows more sympathetic and shows him as both legendary and human? Completely fails to do that for Irene. Only QoA, so far, manages to give her that depth-though I haven’t read Thick As Thieves yet.

But moving on. I’m gonna stop dissing KoA and go back to praising QoA now. Sorry, KoA. But...you got some problems.

QoA’s portrayal of Eugenides going through a hard time and eventually getting through it is emotionally wearing and TOUGH. It’s the one book of the series where the protagonist really GOES THROUGH HELL, to the extent that when you come to the scene where he steals the magus, you feel the strongest catharsis of possibly any point in the series. And even then it’s not over-the aftermath of him losing his hand and Irene’s cruelty to him continues and has lasting effects on the series. This is the book that really shapes Eugenides out of the rough material of The Thief’s Gen. Without QoA, Eugenides is just a clever and determined trickster. Sure, he’s kind as well, and he has his own weaknesses. But QoA forces a level of pain, suffering and growth on him that none of the other books can match. It’s his personal crucible.

Also, just saying. The two best scenes of this entire fucking series are probably the proposal scene and the scene where Gen’s hand gets cut off. Megan Whalen Turner has been trying ever since (look, Sophos has a gun! GEN CAN STEAL SWORDS FROM ASSASSINS) but she hasn’t yet topped them. They’re too good. The scene where Gen’s hand gets cut off is just viscerally cruel and shocking, and it’s the first time we see Gen lose. It will never affect us that much again. And the proposal scene...well, it’s a bit more personal but I really really love Gen and Irene together and I absolutely did not expect it to happen. And I think it was that way for everyone.

So yeah. I could probably come up with about fifty other reasons it’s The Best, but basically I have a lot of love for it and I do actually think it is a better book. What do you think about it? I gather you have a love for it as well.