#an entire arc about him overcoming all the painful things he went through and learning his purpose and finding people to care about

[ashtraythief]

Are you a hardcore Sam fan or a hardcore Dean fan? I don’t know if you’ve ever talked about this before! I think for me Sam & Dean are a package deal so it’s hard for me to separate them. I probably lean towards Dean, though, mainly partly because Jensen is the most attractive person alive. What about you?

Huh, I don't know if I have, nonnie, but I'm with you, they're a package deal for me too. The most interesting thing about them is their relationship I think. Because it's beautiful and all-encompassing and codependent and unhealthy and so single-minded. They're so different, but they work and they're both brave and determined which means in the end nothing can stand in their way and that's beautiful. Their relationship also develops and evolves which makes it even better. There's the default togetherness of the past, the rebellious separation, the anewed togetherness, first by need and circumstances and then by choice, there are fights and misunderstandings and temporary separations, but they always come back to each other, become more honest with each other and that's just beautiful. 

Ahem. Sorry, I just love them so much. But. If I had to pick. Give points. Make a ranking, whatever, I am slightly leaning Dean. Because yes, for shallow reasons, I also think Jensen Ackles is the most beautiful person I've ever seen in my life (don't get me wrong, Jared's both hot like burning and insanely cute, a feat not many people can pull off, but Jensen is either proof of alien life or a fae prince in exile on earth, I don't know, but he's not fucking human). From a story telling point, it's easier to get to know Dean and to emphasize with him. Sam keeps a lot of secrets in the beginning because the mytharc revolves around him and Dean kind of wears his heart on his sleeve and is the one being vulnerable. Dean's also a little dorkier, a little nerdier, gets the car and the music, while Sam's humor is more sassy and we don't really learn a lot about his likes and dislikes in the beginning except that he's not as much fun as Dean. Which is not bad, and poor boy is grieving, and Dean can be annoying, but I think there are more Dean girls in fandom and I think this is maybe one of the reasons why. As the show goes on and we learn more about Sam, he of course has the sort of almost villain arc in season 4 (the show says it itself, the blood drinking is a tough pill to swallow esp because you know he's wrong), but the way he worked for his redemption and made the ultimate sacrifice in the end, man, I never loved Sam more than at the end of season five. What he went through, the pain, the loss, learning his entire fucking life was a staged theater by Azazel to manipulate him into saying yes, and after being duped by Ruby, after falling victim to his own hubris and anger, after trying to make amends and overcoming his addiction, he still has to jump into the cage and he does… motherfucking hearteyes for Sam motherfucking Winchester. His strength and determination and the discipline he has most of the time almost elevate him to some kind of super human level. Dean obviously is just as brave, mostly just as strong (he does have his doubt arc in s5 which he overcomes because of Sammy of course), just as determined, but Dean's also a functioning alcoholic (depending on the season), seeks out meaningless sex with women to fill a void, and is just a little bit more of a mess which makes him more human I think, more relatable. Sam's maybe a smidge more admirable, while Dean has the edge on lovable. I'm nitpicking here of course. Both of these characters are larger than life heroes with their only real flaws being their love for each other (though it's really only a flaw for the characters who get sacrificed in Sam and Dean's endless quest to save each other). Yes, Sam can be closed off and Dean can be annoying and overbearing, Sam's a controlling know-it all and Dean's a bundle of daddy issues with I know what's best tendencies, but like. How can you not love them? They both are strong and honorable, they're smart in different ways that work well together, they're brave and compassionate, they risk their lives to save other people, they have fun little quirks and interests, they are witty and have great sense of humor. Different enough to create fun teasing friction but also complimenting each other. What makes these characters so special and what made supernatural work for so long is that they're layered and complex characters with strengths and weaknesses that are written mostly consistently and they're both I think among my most beloved characters in TV. 

I totally understand the Sam girls (being a Sam girl is a valid, sensible life choice) and I love Sam a whole bunch, but Dean's really just a tad more fun imo and prettier 😅 not that it matters that much, I think, because like you said, they're a package deal and what creates the magic of the show is the two of them, together.

[your-fave-is-bi]

oc asks! ghost, heartbreak, and skin?

ghost: Who or what haunts your OC? What happened? How do they live with their ghosts?

Helios-33 Helios was very close friends with Cayde before his death, and Cayde dying and the whole Forsaken campaign was incredibly painful and hard for Helios. He held so much anger and grief that he didn’t know where to put it, and revenge fixed nothing, it was an empty salve on a broken open ribcage. Helios carried that grief with him, in the form of mostly anger, and it led him to places he’d rather forget he ever went. 

Helios is mainly an arc titan, but through many talks and meditation sessions and seeking help in his friends and environment, he learns how to harness Solar Light, to honor his lost friend. 

It’s a while after that before Helios is haunted by the ghost of Cayde-6 again. It happens for a bit during that season with the red phantoms on the moon. 

And honestly in a way, he’s learning how to live with his ghosts bc of the whole Crow thing. Helios feels bad about what happened, what he did to Uldren, but mainly bc in the end it wasn’t a proper fight. Should he not have gotten revenge like that? Maybe. But he can’t change the past, he prefers to keep his eyes forward nowadays, with a friend like Crow by his side.

heartbreak: Have they ever had a relationship that ended badly? Experienced some other kind of heartbreak? What happened?

Sa’id Sa’id is my awoken Hunter. He’s had some not great ending romantic relationships in the past, but his biggest heartbreak was the loss of his fireteam. Back in the day, he and two other void hunters were a tight fireteam, the closest bond he’d ever had. In my headcanon, Sa’id’s fireteam was one of the fireteams that went down beneath the Arcology on Titan (yknow the strike back in the day, where Guardians were turned into Hive Crystals. that one.) And Sa’id is the sole survivor of his fireteam, watching the two people he’s closest to get stripped of everything that makes them them, and nearly getting his own Light fully taken away then n there as well. It’s incredibly tragic, and Sa’id’s entire personality changes after the heartbreak and the loss of his friends, his fireteam. Where he used to be a jovial little shit, ye olde stereotypical cocky Hunter, he mellows out a lot. There’s a lingering dread to him, a void (hah ironic) that can never be filled again. Sa’id never touches Void Light again after that encounter, and becomes a purely Solar user. 

skin: How comfortable is your OC in their skin? Do they grapple with anything that lives inside them—a beast, a curse, a failure, a monster? How do they face the smallest, weakest, most horrible version of themself? Are they able to acknowledge it at all?

Cedahn Cedahn is originally a dragon age oc that I’ve just kind of taken out of his original context and plopped into various other universes bc i like him :> His main Thing as a character is that he has deep rooted anger issues that he can not control, there’s a certain bloodlust that overcomes him in a fight, a frenzy that makes him go berserk. He’s incredibly ashamed of this part of himself, however useful it can be in a fight, he hates that he is like this. He strives to always be kind, lead with grace and kindness, he tries so very hard to be good, and yet he can not deny the nature of who he becomes when push comes to shove. 

He tries his best to hide this part of himself, ‘ignore it long enough and it wont be an issue anymore, surely’ type of thinking. This, of course, never works out but yknow. A man can hope. 

[phoenixlionme]

Why We Love ATLA

1. Character development is both frequent, gradual, and well written.

2. How different relationship grow. Either they blossom or get destroyed.

3. Zuko was most likely the first GOOD example of a well written redemption arc: He starts of as an antagonist, who shows noble qualities and a tragic backstory, that make him complex. However, he does bad things throughout the show and is rightfully called out by others, even after he becomes full good. And, he doesn’t take the first step to being good in the second season finale. He gets what he wants but realizes it’s not right. So, he CHOOSES to go to the good side because he finally KNOWS it’s wrong, and not because someone told him to. However, when he first joins the Gaang, they all (but Toph) are understandably reluctant - which is good, are you really going to just trust someone who has attacked and betrayed you? But he WORKS to gain their trust and friendship.

4. Excellent worldbuilding that isn’t info dumps.

5. Actual strong female characters. Whether they fight or don’t, ATLA gave amazing and diverse female characters with their own agency, flaws, strengths, and vulnerability. And they could be girly, masculine, or somewhere in between. And no matter where they fell, it didn’t mean they were good or evil.

6. They showed how to write disabled characters in Toph Beifong. She is shown with a disability that she learned to work with and didn’t “overcome” or get “cured”. She turns her disability into a strength. And despite being a strength, the show isn’t afraid to show that her ability did have some drawbacks, and while she managed to work around some of them, she couldn’t with all of them. And they didn’t just make her entire character about her disability, but gave her a character.

7. Azula, Jet, and Zuko were great examples of complex villains. Although, in my opinion, TLOK did a better job of it, these three were some early example of not typical villains.

8. The show was NEVER afraid to show heavy moments and they handled said scenes with care.

9. Great action scenes. That is all.

10. Aang as a male protagonist. He was feminine, not afraid to cry, and was an all-loving type but NONE of these traits were shown as weakness. It’s what made him lovable.

11. Just the unique animals that are in this world

12. The intricate symbolism.

13. Back in the 2000s, cartoons would usually show abusive parents in a comical manner. But ATLA? Ozai was portrayed in a serious, realistic light as an abusive parent and was rightfully called out on by Zuko. It was also notable how a male victim of abuse held his male abuser accountable for his actions,

14. While TLOK sequel series could’ve been handled better, it’s still a proper and great sequel series.

15. How the show destroys toxic masculinity in both Sokka and Zuko. Sokka went from a sexist, wannabe fighter to an actual warrior with respect for women; Zuko went from an angry jerk who believed dominating was the way to earn respect to a proper Fire Lord and hero who now understands that the only the world can survive is through love and kindness.

16.The show managed to handle several heavy topics with show much class when others shows (live-action included) barely could do one: Sexism, colonialism/imperialism, attempted genocide, grief, war, child abuse, trauma, healing from pain, the pains of growing up, etc.

[nothing-more-than-hot-leaf-juice]

Zutara. My otp since I first watched as a 10 year old in 2005. Hopefully you'll be kind to them 😉 I'm convinced they'll be cannon in the live action 😅

Alright... *starts digging grave*, I think Katara and Zuko have a wonderful platonic relationship and for them to have a romantic relationship would (1) undermine Zuko’s redemption arc and (2) undermine the found family aspect of their friendship. I don’t have an issue with anyone who ships Zutara and I do not engage in shipping drama, but I think their platonic relationship is too damn important to favor a romantic relationship I don't really think has chemistry. 

Personally, I have never gotten romantic vibes from them like... at all? I think the progression of their friendship was important in terms of the show’s themes of forgiving those who deserve it and finding support in people you least expect, but I just don’t get chemistry from them. I’ve always been a Kataang fan but how I feel about Zutara has nothing to do with that. Avatar is one of those shows where I would have been totally fine with it ending with no romantic pairings because the found family aspect of it is so much more powerful. 

If anyone has spent 5 seconds on my blog, you know that Zuko is my favorite character and I think he deserves nothing but love and support after all the shit he went through. But a big aspect of why I care about him as a character is that he put the work in to make amends. He didn’t just show up one day saying “I’ve seen the error of my ways, sorry for all the stuff I did, I’m good now” and that was that. He had to work for forgiveness and he did it because he realized the fire nation was wrong, his father was wrong, and he was wrong. His decision to switch sides had nothing to do with any connection with the gaang because he didn’t really know them. His decision to switch sides stemmed from 3 very important things: 

(1) He felt guilty not for betraying Aang and Katara in Ba Sing Se, but Iroh. He realized his uncle was the person who had given him unconditional love while Azula and Ozai’s “love” for him was entirely dependent on his ability to provide them results. From this guilt, he was able to realize that his uncle had made the right decision in siding with the Avatar and more importantly, that Ozai was wrong and that all the abuse he endured under him was undeserved. 

(2) His experiences in the Earth Kingdom as a refugee. This post explains it really well, but Zuko’s realization that everything he’s believed about the Fire Nation has been wrong is rooted in his moment of empathy with Song and her matching burn scar, his empathy with Lee who lost his brother like Zuko lost Lu Ten, his empathy with Jet who lost his way going to extremes for a cause, and, yes, his empathy with Katara who’s mother was taken from her by the Fire Nation like his was. The reason he switches sides is because after all of those experiences, he can no longer be callous or unfeeling towards the Earth Kingdom like his father or sister. The people of the Earth Kingdom either empathized with him for the pain he went through and appreciated him for his desire to help the helpless (Song, Lee, Jet) or feared and hated him for being part of a country that caused their suffering (Lee, Lee’s mom, Jet, Katara). Throughout season 2, Zuko realized the extent of what the war meant for the other side. 

(3) The realization of the extents his father would go to and the truth about Ozai’s amorality. This point is kind of just the culmination of everything in the last two points, but all that set up comes to fruition when Zuko attends the war meeting where Ozai decides to use Sozin’s Comet to commit genocide. By this point he’s racked with guilt over what he did to Iroh, he’s empathized with people who have suffered and is coming to terms with the fact that it’s not only the people of the earth kingdom that have unnecessarily suffered because of Ozai, but him as well. In that meeting, he expresses adoration for the Earth Kingdom being proud and strong and Ozai’s response is to burn it to the ground. It’s the same treatment he gave Zuko at the Agni Kai when he stuck to his morals and refused to fight and was met with abject cruelty. At that meeting, Zuko realizes that his father is wrong and that he was always wrong. He realizes that millions of people will suffer at the hands of this man who is so incredibly wrong and lacking in empathy. 

SO, keeping all that in mind. His redemption arc doesn’t stop when he switches sides, it keeps going as he makes individual amends with Aang, Sokka, and Katara. It keeps going as he learns from the dragons, as he chooses what he believes in over his girlfriend, as he risks his life to protect the gaang from Azula, and as he tries to help Aang, Sokka, and Katara find emotional closure in different aspects. He helps Aang overcome his fear of firebending. He helps Sokka regain his honor. And he helps Katara address her grief regarding her mother’s death. These four episodes are some of the best in the series because it’s not just Zuko working to make amends because he wants them to trust him, but it’s him empathizing with their trauma, their guilt, and their fear of failure because he’s been there. 

Alright, that’s a whole essay regarding why Zuko’s redemption arc works, now what does this have to do with Zutara? Here’s the deal: if any aspect of Zuko’s decisions for his redemption were influenced by romantic attraction to Katara, it would undermine the meaning of his choices for him. He made the choices to be better because he empathized with a nation of people who needlessly suffered. He made the choices to be better because he learned to cut himself off from the need to please his abusive father and accept the unconditional love of his uncle. His choice to help Katara find her mother’s murderer stemmed from empathy and his desire to be better than the people who hurt him and hurt others. The reason Katara’s resentment towards him hurt him so much was because he was trying so hard to be better than the people that were feared and hated. Katara treated him like Lee’s mom and Jet did when they realized he was a firebender (that being said, Katara was justified since Zuko’s decision to side with Azula resulted in the fall of Ba Sing Se and nearly resulted in Aang’s death), and he didn’t want to be that person. He didn’t want to be hated or feared anymore and he was willing to do anything to move past being viewed like that. So Katara’s decision to finally forgive him? It’s the point where she realizes he’s able to empathize with her over his mother’s death where her mother’s killer could not. She realized that he was different and had changed because he put the work in. And that’s huge for his redemption, not for any kind of forming relationship because that’s not the point. 

Now, concerning the whole found-family aspect I love so much? Zutara as a romantic pairing would undermine the beauty of Zuko’s ability to find a loving, supportive group of people that he was missing his entire life. Katara does not work as a romantic partner for Zuko because she works as his replacement sister. The fact is that Zuko’s actual family experience was founded on fear and not love, but the idea of “usefulness”. Zuko and Azula were only valued by Ozai so much as they were useful to him, which is why he favored (not loved) Azula, she was useful to him and Zuko wasn’t until he “slayed the Avatar”. Iroh (and Ursa for a time) was the only person who showed him unconditional love and support, but that wasn’t enough to snap him out of the need to please Ozai. Zuko rooted his entire self worth in what his family thought of him and engaged in very self-destructive behavior throughout season 1 to prove himself because he “didn’t want [his] father to think [he was] worthless”. Even throughout season 3, he still thinks that his uncle’s love for him is conditional (”my uncle hates me I I know it”) until he’s proven otherwise because that’s what he’s been taught. So him joining the gaang, that’s the first time in his life he’s really met with the concept of people liking him for himself, not for his ability to be useful (his family, Jet) or because they think he’s someone he’s not (Song, Lee, Jin). He’s met with friendship: people making fun of him in a playful way instead of tearing down his insecurities and vulnerabilities (”mind if I watch you too jerks do your jerkbending?” “so all we need to do is make Zuko angry, that should be easy enough”, “look, it’s baby Zuko!”, “actually I think [the play portrayal] is pretty spot-on”), people trying to help him fix his problems (”you need to go back to the original source”) instead of making him feel weak for not being able to solve those problems in the first place, and showing him express appreciation and encouragement (”you’re pretty smart”, “to Zuko, who knew after all the times he tried to snuff us out, today he’d be our hero”, “I’m going with Zuko!”). And that’s so. Damn. Important for his ability to heal after how he was treated for his entire life. He’s introduced to the idea that people want him to be around and they want to include him in their circle for being him. Up until the finale, he doesn’t know if he’ll be able to reconcile with Iroh or if Iroh will accept his forgiveness, but these people have given him a home in their group and he’s not afraid or insecure around a group of people for the first time in his life. 

And that’s why Katara has to be the one to defeat Azula: because Azula couldn’t be the sister Zuko had and Katara could be. It’s a tragedy that Zuko and Azula were driven apart by Ozai pitting them against each other, the corruption of firebending throughout the ages so it’s regarded for its power rather than its energy, and Azula’s own insecurities and fears of losing power because, like Zuko once did, she only considers herself to be worth anything so long as she’s better than him. The abuse he endured had an effect on her to because so long as she saw that Ozai’s “love” for Zuko was conditional, that meant that his “love” for her was conditional as well (”you can’t treat me like Zuko!”). Zuko and Azula could never support each other and they could never trust each other in the way that Sokka and Katara could. They wouldn’t sacrifice anything for each other because they were conditioned to survive, to leave behind the lesser sibling in order to get ahead. But at the Agni Kai, Zuko jumps in front of the lighting for Katara because unlike Azula, she has supported him since she forgave him and is there to back him up. She thinks he can be Firelord and she thought his uncle could forgive him in a way that Azula just never could. And that’s why Katara has to be the one to defeat Azula. Not because of any romantic attraction for Zuko, but because he’s protected Aang and Sokka and her and Toph and their little found family. It’s because he’s one of them. So in that moment where Azula is defeated, screaming and sobbing because she’s lost and that means that she’s the weaker sibling, she’s gone and it’s tragic. Zuko looks upon her and he wishes it didn’t have to be like this, but it is and it’s tragic. It didn’t have to be how it was but it did and it was awful and Azula is left broken, hating her brother with murderous fury. But he’s not alone.

He has a new sister who will protect him and fight for him when he’s lost his own. 

(addition: I want to make it clear that this does not mean I think Azula is irredeemable. Her actions and outlook are 100% a product of Ozai’s abuse, as I explained. I do not think that’s she’s beyond redemption, but by the finale she was still a villain and her goal was still to kill her brother so she could be Firelord. That’s not to say that she couldn’t have eventually healed and been able to reconcile with him, but by the final Agni Kai that’s not where their relationship was. The fact that she and Zuko had a toxic relationship was not her fault, but they still had a toxic relationship built on distrust and competition where Zuko and Katara’s friendship was built on support and protection. I am entirely sympathetic towards Azula, but just because she was redeemable doesn’t mean she was redeemed and just because there was potential for her and Zuko to eventually have a better relationship doesn’t mean that they did by the end of the series.) 

[curlsofsagesmoke]

More Analysis of Leadership in TMNT because I Cannot Be Stopped

(really at this point these are just notes for myself as I work on my really long really ambitious tmnt fic, but this is also kind of a follow up to that first analysis I did of the Leo/donnie leadership plot line.)

I've already discussed Leo and donnie as leaders, but I was thinking about season 3, and there are some really interesting moves that the writers make in terms of Raph maturing as a leader in Northampton (and donnie kind of getting the short end of the stick, but what else is new).

so aside from how poorly the writers handled the Leo/donnie plot, which I discussed in the post I linked above, it seems like the season two finale was meant to be the writers' way of saying "hey look we gave donnie a chance to lead and he fucked up, so now we're gonna pass the mantle onto raph." because raph does slip into the leader role in Northampton.

on the one hand, it's annoying to see donnie's leadership potential get shunted aside yet again. I do think all four of them have the potential to be great leaders if they have the chance to mature and develop their skills, so I'm not mad at raph getting the chance to be a good leader. however, the writer's spent two seasons building up donnie's potential as leader, and, as I've mentioned before, we get no closure from them abandoning this plot line. in the farmhouse arc, donnie (and Mikey!) gets forced into that goofy, slightly less competent younger brother role that we saw most often in season one (regarding the a-team/b-team thing).

on the other hand, I love to see any kind of character development for these characters, because it's so rare for anyone in TMNT (2012) to go through lasting change. like seriously, there is not one single stable character arc in the entire show. and raph does make a pretty good leader! his problem with leading (seen in New Girl in Town) is that he panics under pressure. out at the farmhouse, where the threats aren't as serious as the ones they faced in the city, raph becomes a pretty good leader. he's the one watching over and encouraging Leo, training with April and casey, and attempting to continue donnie and Mikey's training in the forest. he's calmer, seems less angry, and is more mature. we do love to see it.

admittedly, this could've fit in really well with the "donnie as leader" plot started in seasons one and two. the invasion was a huge blow to donnie's pride and it probably did shake his confidence in himself a lot. if the plot line had continued into season three, the farmhouse arc could've been a good way for donnie to kind of recover from the failure that was the invasion. we could've seen him struggle to accept his mistakes and learn to overcome his self doubt, the way that Leo did in season one (many times).

raph becoming the de facto leader could've fit in, too! not only would it have been an obstacle for donnie to overcome (aka accepting that just because raph is a good leader on the farm doesn't mean donnie is a bad one in the city) but it probably would've been a good character move for raph, too. raph would've gained a deeper understanding of Leo's burdens and responsibilities, and it's a good way to show how he's matured over the course of two and a half seasons.

and the vision quest episode (kind of the only episode in the whole farmhouse arc where anyone undergoes any kind of serious character development) would've been sick as hell if this plot was continued. because as it stands, vision quest doesn't make a whole lot of sense. they all have challenges to overcome, but the writers tried to force the characters back into the roles they occupied in season one. donnie needed to learn to use his strength as well as his mind, raph needed to learn to control his temper, mikey needed to learn to focus, and Leo needed to overcome his injury (which the splinter-ghost implies is a mental/spiritual block that Leo put in his own path).

but that doesn't make any sense! it's been two and a half seasons at this point, and there should've been more nuanced challenges. Raph's temper in season three isn't nearly as bad as in season one, and it doesn't make sense for him to have to go through that whole learning moment again. same with mikey and his focus; yes he's still immature and easily distracted, but not nearly as much as in season one. donnie's strength challenge is dumb, too, because it's not strength that allows him to defeat tiger claw---it's leverage, which is more of a mental victory than a physical one. and don't even get me started on Leo. "pain is all in your head" is quite possibly the worst lesson in the history of fiction. Leo went through serious trauma and almost died, and splinter-ghost expected him to simply ignore it, as if it was like doubt holding him back? he need physical therapy, not to have to fight a giant shredder in some kind of weird spirit world.

imagine this instead. Mikey's challenge is stillness. he doesn't have a problem focusing when he needs to, but he's a very physical person, and he needs to learn to use his head: to calm himself down, to be still, etc. etc. Raph's challenge is similar. he needs to learn to control his emotions; not just anger, but also his panic and anxiety. he needs to pull himself back into the moment when he gets overwhelmed and prevent himself from panicking when things go wrong. donnie's challenge is confidence. after the invasion, understandably he's shaken and he's probably having trouble trusting himself as a leader, so he needs to learn to accept failure and trust his skills and his instincts. and Leo's challenge is patience. at the farmhouse he gets frustrated really easily by how slowly he's healing, and in the invasion he lost his patience really fast when he and donnie fought. during the vision quest he needs to learn to have patience with himself and not push his limits too far.

I don't even have a conclusion for this little rant. at this point I'm just salty about the writing in the show---not that the writing is straight up bad. it just seems like the writers didn't care about the characters enough to include character depth, character arcs, or meaningful relationships between the characters when they were writing the show. but I guess that's why I'm writing that fic; if you can see the problem, you can fix it, and boy do I see a lot of problems.

[elizabethrobertajones]

SPN deserves flak for handling sensitive topics irresponsibly, especially since it has a teenage audience. Castiel confessed that he's suicidal in season 8 (written by dabb!), the brothers were in a toxic codependency, Sam was sexually harassed by lucifer, a little kid -Jack- was driven to self-harm/suicide. and none of those issues were addressed or solved in 15 years. instead, the message was that people with troubled pasts could only "be forgiven" if they sacrificed their lives (Jack) or died

Yeeeeaaaah that’s something it was always getting criticism for consistently as it went along as a case- by-case basis of the treatment... There were some woke episodes later on with the newer writers which did handle some subject better but honestly usually in a motw way with side characters proving better examples to the Winchesters’ messed up coping. 

I guess one thing that I was leaning on a bit was that if it was all going somewhere that the resolution would be okay because the writing was aware that they did have these issues. For example, Carver era was really heavy on the codependency stuff but it was painting it in such a bad light that it was beyond romanticising it in any sense and the message seemed to be that the writing wanted them to heal. I personally think this was healed a fair amount over Dabb era along the way... But the finale as far as I can tell let Sam move on with his life and break the cycle or whatever, but also was so wildly unsatisfying on every front it probably would have been HEALTHIER for the fucker to go straight to Hell and petition Rowena for giving her an eternity of foot rubs in exchange for Dean back. Just so he could be like “what the hell what that, you nearly married that BLURRY WOMAN? What’s WRONG WITH YOU”

(I don’t know the fine details on this death scene to know or care how the Sam and Dean relationship wrapped up because it was clearly garbage and in my head they’re both still happy and alive and have a normal freaking relationship :P)

In any case, I know so much was carried by these characters that, to be serious for a moment, I don’t know if they ever could have lifted the whole weight of what we needed them to be, even in an ideal end. But I do know that by giving the show such a shaky resolution, especially with bringing Cas back off screen and not giving any real closure and telegraphed final scenes with anyone - i mean even the love confession and empty yeeting feel like Dean’s supposed to have another moment with him later and it doesn’t feel death scene-y enough to me because of the complete lack of closure the confession gives it by opening the new possibility moments before death - vast amounts of character work which could have HELPED bring some of these things to a conclusion just never showed up, it seems. 

Like, Sam’s Blurry Life With The Blurry Wife seems like an even worse state than his season 7-8 hiatus time with Amelia because at least she had a FACE and BACKSTORY and LINES ON SCREEN. At least she and Sam talked through their issues and related to each other and they had a reasonable reason for it not working out and they got to see what they both needed from each other at the time and what they couldn’t get from each other moving forwards. 

Even ignoring that Sam got the perfect endgame with Eileen, a Generic Blurry Wife ending for him is such garbage because so much of his bad coping is bound up in his hiding and running away... Just because Dean once waxed poetic about wanting Sam to grow old and boring and live a normal life doesn’t mean it’s what his character was best suited to or what he would really have been comfortable with long-term, especially when as far as I can tell Dean dies and he just up and abandons his hunting life and goes to be normal. If for garbage reasons you were ditching Eileen a happy ending for Sam would still probably involve a hunting-connected life, even if it was a montage showing him holed up in the Bunker being the new Bobby while nothing else changed and Dean was having bad drinks with the original Bobby in Heaven. Like just that one change would make Sam’s journey make sense that he stopped running away and accepted who he was and that the trauma shaped him but didn’t break him, and that he had moved beyond the harmful relationships with women who he valued for their normality, who he then told nothing about his life, bottled up his trauma and dismissed his past and then lived a sliver of existence right on the edge of sanity and coping. Blurry Wife might have the benefit that theoretically the cosmic nonsense is over and Sam might not be called back to that battlefield but the toll on Sam’s life from his history can’t just... disappear overnight. Literally his entire mental health arc which was based on his trauma and addressing it and overcoming it, and how Sam learns who he is beneath it and how it has made him uniquely Sam and stronger for it is all washed away. 

And that of all the examples you mentioned is like the only one I can talk about with any coherence without devolving into screaming about how better endings were owed all around. If the characters are denied meaningful narrative closure than everything they’ve carried with them, from just the way a plot will feel resolved or not, to all the stuff we reflect onto them about our own issues that we see in theirs, ends up dumped to the side and it leaves painful holes. 

I don’t think a better ending in terms of just wrapping up the show as it seemed to be on track to, until it abruptly wasn’t in the finale, would have ever fixed all of it or meant enough to some of us when it comes to things we’ve carried alongside the characters for a long time. Like I doubt even a full canon Destiel ending by their pen could have addressed ALL the issues we put on Dean and Cas and in our explorations in fic and meta and headcanon and crackposts and whatever else, feel like they’d need to talk out or resolve to be fully content on screen with each other. But there sure were things that could have been done with a few meaningful lines here and there and obviously Cas visually on screen with Dean at the ending that would have made things easier, or provided the paths to seeing these things resolved in our ongoing imaginings.

A lot of the finale pain seems to be the abrupt wall that the story just STOPS like that and so much of this is all left hanging and we’re all feeling the pain of many things that we forgave the story for along the way because there was a trust in the way storytelling works that we’d get that catharsis and closure at the end, and that all the painful stories we were told were being told for that reason. Like, the main reason to write painful stuff and dark themes is to explore it and look right at the horrible stuff, but then to find ways to bring it back down and let some of it go. And most of why I’m refusing to watch the end of the show is simply because it sounds like none of what any of us wanted to get out of it actually happened and there were NO paths to get these things we needed out of it. And at which point many of the terrible things that happened along the way now feel uncomfortable in a way that it’s torture porn without any relief or reason for doing it. The feeling is so universal and the descriptions of that last episode so laughably bad on that front that it’s the main reason I don’t want to watch it. Like, I can get a better sense of satisfaction bitching about how it should have ended than I’d get watching it so why would I do that? :P 

Anyway. Guess you got me ranting but this really is something I think in hindsight that might make rewatches really awful way back into the show just because you’ll be watching something and realise that for all the character is going through, they’re not going to get a resolution that actually would do anything to make any meaningful comment at all on what they’re going through. So now you’re just watching them suffer for the hell of it? Idk, this fear haunts me >.> 

[dazais-guardian-angel]

Hot take: Bakugou's character wouldn't survive if not for the one he kept abusing all his life. 90% of his character revolves around his victim and yet the fandom paints him as this super developed, fleshed out character when in reality he'd never be anything bigger than a side character if not for Deku.

Also the concequences he supposedly received are just him being teased or not getting the win he wanted, no being kidnapped doesn't count, he literally got away with his shit while even been treated like a victim and the privilege to know something about Deku that isn't any of his business. And now because he sacrificed himself that one time the fandom acts like Izuku owes his ass anything. It's disgusting.

I have given up on him actually being half the decent character ppl make him out to be and the fandom reaction to him makes me hate him even more.

He's not complex, he's just a pretty boy, asshole archetype who gets nicer and has some more cooperative and ppl love to eat that shit up while making up stuff for him. He changes but he's doesn't change for what matters and definitely pales in comparison to other characters who are better written than him.

(holy shit, did they remove the character limit on asks?? omg a GODSEND)

Well yeah, if it weren’t for Izuku and how he treats Izuku he wouldn’t have anything to improve from; people only think he’s developed because he no longer outright bullies him and “””worries””” (I say in heavy quotes) about him, and “reflects” on how he treated him even though he.......... comes to the absolute wrongest, most idiotic conclusions imaginable, that put the brunt of the excuses on Izuku instead of himself, but Toshinori validates him because Horikoshi has made Toshi into Bakugou’s uwu stan and stan of the two boys’ “friendship” (completely ignoring the fact that THIS KID FOR TEN YEARS BULLIED HIS SON). He’s basically already been devolved to acting like a side character for a long time now, with his funny anger quirk pun partly intended that’s just treated like a joke at this point, just like everyone else’s character quirks, even though it would be far more interesting for him to, you know. actually get some therapy and learn to calm himself and become an actual pleasant person to be around. But that’s not what makes him “funny”, that’s not him, according to most people, so he’s always going to stay like this, a boring angry pomeranian who flies off the handle at everything for no reason, who has done the absolute bare minimum of “changing”, which makes him a perfect character in everyone’s eyes.

“He changes but doesn’t change for what matters” pretty much sums up the problem with him in a nutshell, and is the exact reason he frustrates me so much, that I’ve ranted about plenty before. Bakugou has never been viewed through the lens of a bully, an abuser, he was never set up to be that, at least not realistically, and so his development hasn’t happened in accordance with that setup either, and people don’t have a problem with it and actively praise it because the manga actively downplay(ed)s the severity of that origin story. People can ignore the reality of how seriously traumatic being bullied for ten years of your childhood, verbally and physically would be, and how seriously and with such sensitivity such a relationship and character arc must be handled, because aside from the very first chapter when Izuku and Bakugou are still in middle school, really, with the “take a swan dive off the roof” comment and others, it’s never focused on in that way ever again; ever since, it’s just been treated as a typical anime “rivalry”, that both of them need to better themselves to overcome. The story and teachers say “the two of them are so alike but they just keep missing each other; if they just made up for each others’ weaknesses and understood that they both want the same thing, they’d be stronger together!”, and Izuku HIMSELF tries so hard to reach through to Bakugou, always still considering him his friend, always feeling like he’s the one equally at fault for their relationship being as rocky as it is, when BAKUGOU!!! FUCKING!!! BULLIED HIM!!! FOR TEN YEARS. bullied a DISABLED CHILD, which again, as a disabled person who relates to Izuku and how he felt about his quirklessness, feelings that continue to affect him even long after he gets a quirk because of how he was treated when he was younger, is DEEPLY unsettling to me. You CANNOT read/watch MHA without the metaphor of quirklessness = disabled being very apparent, and so that makes Bakugou’s bullying and how it is so utterly glossed over and purposefully forgotten a hundred times more disturbing and aggravating than it already is! If this were any other shounen rivalry then yes, it could be resolved with effort from both parties, because both parties have their own personal reasons for why they have trouble getting along with the other, and the fun is watching to see how they will overcome those, but Izuku and Bakugou were never on an equal playing field to begin with; this is a bullying story, with its victim trying desperately to win over and befriend his abuser, when he owes him absolutely NOTHING and has a BOATLOAD of unresolved issues thanks to said bullying, with no outside help from adults for either of them because none of them are acknowledging it as fucking bullying. I guarantee you that if the manga went into much more painful, bleak detail and showed many more flashbacks of how Izuku was treated by Bakugou in the past, and then still continued with the “development” he’s had since, people would be unable to ignore it like they can now, and it would make all of them extremely uncomfortable like it does those of us now who already dislike him. Hori himself has said he doesn’t understand why Bakugou is so popular, but he’s able to just continue as he does with him because no one is complaining, and because he said he regrets making him so awful in the beginning, as if that magically makes it disappear as much as it already has in 90% of the fandom’s collective mind. You wanna know an actual good manga that also deals with a bully of a disabled child growing and improving himself and forming a close relationship with his former victim? A Silent Voice. Such a journey is long, and hard, and it is painful, with many ups and downs and many nasty, hateful, guilt-filled, depression-filled feelings from both sides, along with from other characters who either also partook in the bullying, were bystanders to it who did nothing, or were indirect victims as well. The bully is bullied himself after what he does, and then grows up nearly suicidal, closing himself off and struggling to be social and make new friends because he doesn’t know how and doesn’t entirely feel like he deserves it (and the story notably doesn’t go the route of “he was abused too at home and so that’s why he bullied”), and tries and fails many times to make amends with the person he hurt before he finally is at peace with himself and everyone; the victim, meanwhile, drowns in continued guilt and suicidal feelings over feeling like she’s a burden to others, both from her disability and from watching all the infighting and victim blaming and finger pointing that ensues between her old classmates when all of the nasty emotions are brought back to the surface, along with dealing with budding romantic feelings for her past bully when he genuinely starts being kind towards her and making an effort to connect with her. ASV is entirely about this complex narrative, it’s able to dedicate everything it has to telling this story tactfully and with all the time and attention it needs. MHA, meanwhile, is a shounen battle manga, and so it was never going to do this narrative and Bakugou’s arc justice, even though I honestly think it could have if Hori really wanted to, because Izuku and Toshinori’s relationship has such masterfully subtle and touching emotions and care, at least early on; Horikoshi knows how to write good, subtle character arcs. I’m not asking for something ASV level, of course not, when the series has so many other things it has to juggle. I just wanted Bakugou to be treated as exactly what he is: a former bully, who can be taught, and learn, and reflect, and change, and become a better, more humble, more interesting person, and actually become someone worthy of all the praise and love he gets, not only for Izuku’s sake, but for his own, as well. They don’t excuse his actions in the slightest, but it’s still undeniable that Bakugou himself is a victim of how the adults in his life have treated him and raised his own expectations of himself, giving him the crippling insecurity issues he has, and that they continue to harm him (and Izuku) by simply letting him continue to go on angrily the way he does, instead of getting him help and some therapy in order for him to change and heal from things like being kidnapped by villains (which is no small thing to go through!! on top of his guilt over Toshinori’s final battle!) and becoming a better person to the one he hurt in the past, and it all just makes me so sad, not because I’m all “uwu poor Bakugou”, but just cause his character deserves better, as a person he deserves better, just like Izuku deserves better than everything he’s gone through because of him. This is all just a very long-winded way of agreeing with you OP that yes, none of Bakugou’s “punishments” for his behavior mean anything because he’s punished as a rival student who needs to humble himself in order to get along with his friend he doesn’t like, not as a former(??) bully who needs to be separated from his victim. The bar is set so low, was never set where it should be, and so absolutely no progress to “better himself” Bakugou makes either will mean anything, as long as it’s never acknowledged that he needs to make amends as a bully and abuser.

[alirhi]

The problem with DJ

Like I said, sweetie gets his own post lol. It's funny how far he's come, from a random side character made just to be killed off, to my go-to RP boy, to my favorite character I've ever written. I'll skip the origin story lol (aka the irrelevant random RPs over the years) and get right to the meat of the problem: Crossroads.

It all really comes back to my flaky friend, A. Back when she was creative and invested, she made this crazy girl, Casey, who DJ fell head-over-heels in love with. Casey was highly toxic and came with some unusual baggage, but that's what I loved about her as a character. And honestly? Every girl in DJ's life is kind of toxic. That was rather the point.

DJ describes himself as "a walking, talking stereotype." He's a broke, drug-addicted teen from the wrong side of the tracks with an abusive alcoholic father. His mother committed suicide when DJ was 4, and DJ's been an addict since he was 13. He's also got ADHD, and he's a genius. Sleeps through the few classes he actually attends and still gets straight As genius. He's got two distinctly different groups of friends: his more straight-laced school friends (most of whom have known him since pre-drug days), and his rave/burnout friends. He's also an indiscriminate (ish XD) manwhore. He'll sleep with literally any girl who shows interest, as long as he's not her first (ties into his lack of self-worth and stuff. he doesn't want anyone to be "stuck with" the memory of him as her first - Casey straight-up lies to his face to get him to fuck her 😂 I love her. she's so awful...)

I eventually gave him a little brother, because I'd never put much thought into why DJ - who, again, is scary smart, and also unnervingly self-aware; pretty much impervious to denial - would do drugs. When he was just a random RP character, I...didn't really care? 😂 His background and motivations were less important than the hijinks he got himself into. But then A fell as hard for him as I did, and we decided to give him a real story, so he needed a real motive. Enter baby brother AJ, who is their father's true target, so DJ does stupid shit to piss dad off and keep those fists flying at him, not baby bro.

When DJ meets Casey, he's drunk and high and accidentally gropes her. She punches him and knocks his ass out lmao. He later apologizes, and she and her twin brother Seamus join DJ's school friend group, and she and DJ become fwb. That's the most he can really offer; DJ doesn't date, because he knows he won't be faithful, so why string a girl along? Naturally, because he's book smart but otherwise kind of a moron (lol not really, just no will to live. he tried to kill himself 3 times before he was introduced to drugs. his friends keep warning him about STDs and he's like "eh, death by karma actually sounds pretty apropos") he ends up getting Casey (and a couple of other girls) pregnant.

One of those other girls is his dealer/rave bestie, Luna. Aside from Casey and her family, here is the biggest divergence between the story A and I worked out together, and the one I'm now writing alone. A hated Luna; she hated anyone who was competition for Casey, because she'd latched so hard onto this DJ/Casey pairing that everything that could have been something for them to overcome, she just saw as a threat that needed to be squashed. So she insisted on killing off not just the baby (Lu was always going to miscarry), but also Luna. Y'all... that hurt. A lot. I adore Luna. I'd sooner kill off DJ (and in fact, there's a version of the story where he ODs and dies, and Casey eventually marries AJ). I did not want to kill Luna. But for the sake of not arguing with A forever, I did, and it became a huge part of the overall story, because DJ was in love with Luna. I saw this as an opportunity to explore poly love. A was just like "fuck that. kill her. want a poly ship? Thow Izzie-" (one of DJ's school friends, Izumi) "-into the mix! Casey likes her!" Gods forbid I wanted a little friction and compromise, people finding common ground and learning to live together. DJ likes Izzie, he does. And Izzie canonically does have a huge crush on him. But she's possessive and catty - just like Casey - and they would have imploded.

When I decided to remove A from the equation, my first impulse was "fuck yeah! I don't have to kill Luna! LUNA STAYS, BITCHES!!!" but like...

Now I have to rework DJ's entire arc, because his crippling grief and guilt over her death drove pretty much the rest of his story.

Anyway, in the old version (with the three phases), in phase 1, DJ got clean, married Casey, and got his shit together. In phase 2, they were gender-swapped (there's a reason for that beyond a god's weird sense of humor lol but I'll get to that in a minute) and DJ went from a mousy drug-addicted pacifist to a deadly cleaner for Casey's Irish mob family. It all ties into which parent (s)he is afraid to reflect. male!DJ is terrified of becoming his father; female!DJ is disgusted by what she sees as her mother's weakness and refuses to be her. So while boy-Deej danced and played drums and never took a swing at anyone even in jest, girl-Deej was a fighter, and a damn angry one. In phase 3, back to being a boy and a druggie, DJ overdoses and dies. And the Goddess who'd been trying to get her hands on him this whole time finally manages it. See, Adaghar (god who gender-swapped DJ and Casey) knew about Larash's (goddess who wanted DJ) obsession, so he was trying to make sure DJ lived a long life and went to literally any afterlife that Larash couldn't reach. She finally gets him, and through a series of odd events, he ends up killing Adaghar and taking his place, becoming a god.

That's all gone. 😂 Now DJ's just DJ, no grand destiny or anything, just a kid with an awful home life who needs to clean his act up and do right by his kids. Honestly, that's enough imo. I still adore him and can't wait to get his story done so I can read it... but I'm totally stuck. I don't know how his story ends anymore. I know he can't end up with Luna even if she's alive because they'll end up strung out and on welfare for the rest of their short, painful lives. They are deeply, deeply in love with each other, but they're both tortured addicts and Luna has zero self control. Neither of them will ever get clean if they're together.

And like... that's not even getting into all the craziness with DJ's oldest son, Ari. Ari had different versions, too - one where DJ had no idea he existed until he was about 7 (and had gone through some shit, poor kid) and showed up on daddy's doorstep; that version grew to be an angry, snarky little shit and I love him to pieces. Then there's a version where DJ found him when he was 2 and cleaned his act up and Ari grew into a happy, well-adjusted kid. And obviously in the girl-DJ version, she, y'know, gave birth to him lmao so she knew about him. But Ari had this whole arc with a vampire and he moved to Achlys in one version, and in another (the one where DJ died) he was adopted by AJ and Casey and became a doctor, and... ugh. I love this kid. And now everything about him is a big question mark, even more so than DJ cuz - guess what? the vampire was A's character, too! 🙄😖

Blargh. I dunno, guys. I don't know what to do with this whole thing.

[blodreina-noumou]

what would the show have had to have done to be considered good for you? I thoroughly enjoyed my time watching the show, so I look back at it fondly.

Oh god, where do I even begin?

For starters - if you’re one of the people who enjoyed The 100 in its entirety, good for you! That’s awesome! I don’t want to diminish that. These are just my feelings and my opinions, and I don’t intend for them to make anyone else feel bad for what they like. The ending could’ve been much worse, I’ll give it that. And there were obviously moments I enjoyed throughout the final season, and the series as a whole will still stand (unfortunately) as one of my favorites.

HOWEVER.

I found the ending thoroughly disappointing. It robbed our characters of any of the development they made in the final season, for the sake of propping up Clarke (canonically, that is why they stayed.)

The final season provided us with some really fascinating journeys for our characters. Without recapping the whole season, I can say that I really liked where Octavia, Emori, Murphy, and Echo ended up in their respective arcs. They all had to overcome their past tragedies to fulfill new roles. It was interesting and engaging.

The show itself provided us with so many interesting conflicts, with so many different groups who had competing goals and ideals. On some level, it promised us that peace was not possible until these folks all learned to work together and stop killing each other. That was the goal, all along. 

Survival of the human race was the first goal of the show, and survival of the human race is only possible if they (a) stay human and (b) survive.

Neither of those things happened by the end. The goal of our protagonists - the thing they allegedly existed for, in their stories - to save the human race and survive and thrive and all of that, did not happen for the vast majority of people.

Transcendence and the final scene on the beach erases all of the hard work they did in showing us those character journeys, and in making us invest time and energy into different groups that would only continue to suffer assimilation and homogenization by the end.

What was interesting to me about our main characters - Clarke, Bellamy, Monty, Raven, Murphy, Octavia, Emori, and Echo - was that they appeared to be the ones best suited (according to the storytellers) to save the human race.

The moment the show introduced the Grounders, I wanted a political thriller that I was probably never going to get. I accept that. 

What I cannot accept is that they erased all of their conflicts with a convenient deus ex machina, and everything that our characters learned is more or less pointless because of it. I’ll focus on their s7 arcs, but I think it applies to their entire storylines.

Octavia learns about her brother’s way of raising her and comes to forgive him for it. She becomes a parent herself. She manages to bridge the gap between two cultures yet again (Bardo and...everyone else, I guess) by falling in love with Levitt. 

She will never utilize any of those skills again. Hope no longer needs a parent. There will never be another culture different from them again. She and Levitt will never have children.

Murphy learns to put value in the group, and to recognize his own abilities as a leader and as a man. He saves multiple people in Sanctum, becoming their protector and their shield. 

Emori learns to put value in herself, and to recognize her abilities to empathize with outcasts and those deemed “less worthy” by society. She becomes a queen in her own right, a protector and a diplomat.

No one will ever need them to fulfill these roles, ever again. There was no point in them leading those people.

Echo had to go back to a deeply painful role, one which has cost her dearly in life - a spy among her enemy. When she’s brought to her lowest, to the brink of committing genocide, it’s her love for her family that keeps her from going over the edge. She reemerges as herself, recognizing that her painful past does not define her, and she can find love despite it.

Too bad the love of her life was murdered by Clarke!

I wanted our heroes to save the human race, not be the only humans that ended up saved. Does that make sense?

Clarke gets the closest thing to a happy ending of anyone, since she was the one who insisted for seven seasons that “[her] people” were the most important thing in the world, and that she would stop at nothing to protect them. Welp, now there’s nothing to protect them from. Her genocidal rages get a little slap on the wrist and then she gets to spend an endless beach day bossing everyone around and pouting.

It just sucked.

I hate the magic hand-wave of all of the conflicts. You can try to tell me that transcendence was a choice all you want. Plenty of people chose the City of Light, too. That didn’t make the way it erased their individuality and personal goals okay. Frankly, the ending to me feels like everyone just decided to go into the City of Light anyway. And sure, they keep their bad memories and some semblance of individuality, but what do those things even mean when you just one blip of a species that works, moves, lives, and decides things as one?

They didn’t overcome their tribalism. All of the other tribes just got assimilated into the borg. And sure, they maintain some semblance of personality once they transcend - we know that because of Madi’s message to Clarke. But what kind of lives are they going to have as part of that big glowy shit? Madi never gets to grow up, or fall in love, or pet dogs again. (Picasso is always going to wonder where her new best friend went.)

And who were those alien assholes anyway? Who are they to say that their way is better, that they have the right to judge entire species based on one representative? That they can just exterminate anyone whose way of life doesn’t match up with theirs?

Our heroes didn’t save the human race. The human race turned into something else entirely, and its last survivors get to watch each other die knowing that that’s it, that’s the end of them all.

No societies. No cultures. No new art, or music, or fashion.

No children, no future. No hope. 

It’s very disappointing and scary to me. I don’t like the messaging and I don’t like the implications for the surviving characters.

There was a brief, brief moment when I saw a glimpse of an ending that I could’ve liked. When Raven says, “just give us another chance,” I was really expecting the aliens to swoop off and leave humanity to their own devices. No crystallization. No transcendence. All of the remaining groups have to come together and figure out how to thrive together. Discuss and establish a system of government that doesn’t rely on state-sanctioned child battle royales, or body snatching, or extreme restrictions on how many children people can have. Obviously, in this ending, nobody gets shot and nobody almost dies. Madi retains control of her body, somehow. Fill in the details yourself, but my ending would include just about everybody surviving.

Build a society that will grow. Let our characters take the lessons they’ve learned and apply them in a meaningful way, a lasting way. Show us that humanity will survive and will rebuild, on the planet of our birth. Let them rest, but let that rest and that peace mean something more than, “Good job! You made it to episode 100!”

Not to mention, the fact that Earth did eventually heal made everything that Monty and Harper did at the end of s5 completely pointless. Monty thought he was delivering the human race to a new hope. He was just steering them towards assimilation to the borg. I don’t think that’s the “do better” that he wanted, you know?

I could go on, but this is long enough. I’ll just end by saying this - if someone had told me, back in 2015 when I started watching, that this is how the show would end, I never would’ve started it. Not for Lexa, not for Octavia, not for anything. 

The ending made everything they went through so painfully pointless.

[linkspooky]

Shigaraki + Eri: Born to Destroy

Shigaraki and Eri are both characters told by their abusers that because they were born with a destructive quirk, it means they were born to destroy. Both children internalized this idea. The only difference is Eri was saved while she was still a child. and Shigaraki was explicitly not saved and failed by the hero system at every level. 

Yet, a certain part of the fandom insists that the comparison between these two characters is meant to show that Eri is meant to be someone who can be saved while Shigaraki having grown up to be a villain is therefore an example of someone who due to being a villain cannot be saved. That Shigaraki’s only role in the narrative now is a villain to be defeated, and therefore unlike Eri he no longer deserves to be saved. 

But to believe All for One’s lies that Shigaraki was born for destruction, that he enjoys it, is the same as believing Chisaki’s lies that Eri was born to hurt the others around her too. What people are missing is that Eri does not exist to be the “good guy” version of Shigaraki. It’s the other way around, Shigaraki is a much more important character than Eri whose arc is central to the whole narrative, Eri’s entire purpose for being in the story is to prove that Shigaraki is someone who should be saved. Let’s explain under the cut. 

1. Eri and Tenko

Eri is a character who is intentionally designed to call immediate visual parallels to Shigaraki. They both have long, uncombed white hair. They both have red eyes with severe bags underneath them. They are both obviously scarred, Shigaraki has scars on his face and Eri is perpetually covered in bandages. 

The intention is clear, not only does Eri look like Shigaraki but she also looks the exact same way Tenko did almost immediately after he was traumatized. Red eyes, hair turned white by stress, covered in scars. 

Eri not only parallels the scene where Tenko ran away from home immediately after losing his family, they also parallel the fact that both of them were racing through the crowds, hoping, desperately, that just one person would save them. 

They are both frightened children running away while being covered in scars, but here is the reaction that Eri gets, compared to the reaction that Tenko gets. 

This is a trick on Horikoshi’s part, using the visual art to convey framing. Framing is a technique of writing where ideas are written with the reader in mind, ensuring that the reader is able to understand what the author is trying to tell them. In other words it’s the characters within the story reacting to events in a certain way, as a device to convey the author’s intention or what they want you to understand. 

In the most basic terms if Deku saves a person, and all might pats him on the head and says that he did a good job saving someone. Then the message conveyed is that saving people is good. Events happen in a story and framing conveys a message. 

Then look at the difference between how these two scenes are framed. Eri is still cute, visually appealing, she has wide eyes and looks like an innocent lost child. When Tenko raises his eyes to look up at the old lady, his eyes are sunken in, his face is withered, and he looks like a monster child. The difference in this framing is to show the difference in how Eri and Tenko are perceived, even in the exact same circumstances, Eri is a child that needs to be saved, whereas Tenko is an ugly child that everyone looks away from. 

Horikoshi is not framing it this way to reinforce the idea that Eri is good and deserves to be saved, and Tenko is bad, rather he is showing how other people perceive Tenko as ugly in order to show their hypocrisy. The entire point of the scene in Tenko’s case is how wrong it is in the entire crowd not a single person tried to save him. 

Eri, and Tenko were both born into abusive households. A mother who abandons her daughter at the first sign of trouble, blames their child for everything, and then leaves her with the Yakuza was probably never much of a good mother in the first place. 

However, after exiting their first abusive household instead of heroes they were both found by villains who only had an interest in manipulating them. 

Chisaki, Eri’s father figure, and AFO Tenko’s father figure both repeatedly tell the children they are watching that the reason that they were born with this quirk is that they want to destroy. Both of them come to accept that it’s their fault for being born with this quirk, that they want this, that they exist to destroy. 

They both accept the lie that they are told. Their quirk manifested because they wanted it to, their quirk went out of control and killed their father because they wanted it to. They do not see themselves as tragic victims, but as the cause for all of the destruction around them. 

There is even a deliberately drawn intentional parallel to when Eri loses control of her quirk once again at the end of the arc, and when Shigaraki loses control of his quirk fighting against Re-Destro. 

They both hear the words of their abusers, and then lose control of their destructive quirks. The only difference being that Eri is crying and Shigaraki is laughing but this does not mean that Shigaraki is a bad person that lovs destruction, and Eri is a good person that hates when her quirk destroys and is therefore an innocent victim. 

The ways in which they lose control just manfiest differently. Shigaraki has been taught his entire life that destruction makes him feel better, that he was meant to destroy and that it was a good thing, he was literally groomed for this purpose. Whereas, Eri was taught that her destruction was a bad thing specifically to make her helpless and to not fight back against Chisaki. Eri was cultivated to be helpless, whereas AFO cultivated Shigaraki into someone who would actively want to destroy after AFO was gone. 

It’s almost like the environment they were raised in makes the signs of their victimhood manifest in different ways or something. Shigaraki’s laughter is no less of a cry for help then Eri’s crying. Shigaraki only laughs because he’s been pushed past the breaking point, had a trauma flashback in the middle of battle with a man who is trying to kill him, and has not eaten or slept regularly in a month. Yet, Shigaraki losing control is read as him being evil, and Eri’s losing control is read as her being a victim. 

The point being that if Chisaki was wrong when he said that Eri was made to destroy, then All for One was also wrong when he said that Shigaraki enjoys destruction. 

Chisaki and All for One both positioned themselves as Shigaraki and Eri’s father figures, and then used that position of power to control their entire lives. Neither of them saw Shigaraki or Eri as a person, only a tool for them to use to further their own ambitions. Therefore, neither of them could have known Shigaraki or Eri as a person. Everything they say about them as a person is wrong, because they only care about them to the extent of what they want to mould both children into. 

2. The Theme of the Overhaul Arc 

So, what were we as the leader supposed to learn from the Overhaul arc?  A simple answer would be “Heroes should have a frightened child in front of them, even if they’re not asking for help”. However, if the theme were just that we would hae what I call a no duh theme. 

A no duh theme is basically when the theme is so obvious that it’s kind of pointless to read about it in a story. For example if the theme was so simple as “killing people as bad” my response would be “no duh.” The point of stories is to develop ideas and learn something from them, so something has changed by the time you started the story to the time you finish it.

For example, Deku’s goal is a really vague one. I want to save people. Heroes save people. Those are pretty general statements. If Deku is the main character of the manga, his goal has to develop or change in some signficant way otherwise why are we following Deku this entire time? If he’s the same character at the beginning than at the end, then what is the point? 

The Deku from chapter one would have rushed to save Eri too. The entire point of the arc was not just saving Eri, because as far as hero-work goes saving a crying child who is a victim of a villain is pretty standard. The point is to bring up the idea of what saving people means. 

Of course no true hero would abandon a frighten child, of course Deku’s goal is to save everyone, but those statements are very generic and nonspecific. Not only that, but it’s also basically what All Might’s Goal was to begin with. Deku as a character has to surpass All Might, not just be a second All Might imitating his hero.

The point of the entire series is for Deku to grow into his own type of hero, and learn the kind of hero he wants to be. It’s easy for him to say “I want to be the hero who saves everyone” but now the story must challenge him to live up to it. Now, while Eri was a difficult fight, and was in pretty difficult circumstances to rescue her from, she also was a pretty black and white victim. She’s a crying child begging for help, of course you would want to save her. 

However, there are several ideas brought up in the process of saving Eri that are obviously set up for later cases where saving someone could be more complicated than just punching the bad guy and saving Eri from his hands. Even Eri herself is a more difficult situation because like any other child, the words that are told to her by the person who controlled her life, stay inside of her, and she cannot overcome them on her own until somebody else provides and outside perspective. 

Midoriya is met with someone who does not want to be saved. Who tells them to leave him alone, because of their abuser who controls their reality, who believes they cannot be saved and only exist to bring pain to others. Midoriya ignores that because he knows that it’s the words of their abuser speaking, and decides to save her anyway. 

The entire arc is a baseline. If Deku cannot save this person, than how can he become a person who saves everyone. It’s a test of what Deku really means when he says he wants to become a hero who can save anyone. 

The overhaul arc is an introduction, the first real taste of the difficulties and complexities of saving people, and also of it’s importance. Deku does the right thing and chooses to continue seeing Eri as a victim, rather than believing the words of her abuser. Even when eri herself believes them, because she is a child who literally has not been shown any other alternative. 

Therefore, thematically the end result of this path, for Deku to become a hero that truly saves everyone he has to grow into the kind of hero who can save Shigaraki as well. A victim who does not want to be saved, a victim who believes everything their abuser told them, a victim who believes they were born to destroy. 

It’s easy to sympathize with a crying girl like Eri. Shigaraki is a character who is much harder to sympathize with, and yet there are such obvious parallels between Midoriya and Shigaraki that it’s impossible we’re not building up to a conrontation where they sympathize with each other.

This is something that we are told over and over again in the story. That Shigaraki is a crimminal now. That he is not somebody that can be sympathized with, that he cannot be saved, only put down like a rabid dog. 

That heroes only exist to save good people. However, the central conflict of the story is literally this. That in a society of heroes there are people that do not get saved, not only that, but it is these clear and obvious gaps in hero society that creates it’s own villains. 

As pointed out by here twitter user [@ribai1] Images sourced to them. 

Shigaraki is a symbol of every victim that falls through the cracks of a hero system. In a way he is like a violent jungian shadow of society, which rises up due to society’s ignorance and neglect of the situation, of people like Shigaraki and Eri. 

Spinner is a NEET who is ostracised both for having a quirk that morphs his entire body, and also a weak quirk. He was someone who locked himself away from society because he could not handle it. At the same time Shigaraki is also someone who was raised outside of society. Due to that fact his perspective is that of an outsider looking in. Shigaraki speaks to Spinner because just like spinner, all of the good things about being accepted by society, friendship, camraderie, being accepted by others, being saved by others, all of these things are unavailable to Shigaraki the outsider. Hence why both Shigaraki and spinner lead relatively empty lives and are desperate to have some kind of cause that is against this society that does not welcome them. 

Shigaraki speaks to these people, because he is their symbol. He’s experienced the same things as all the outcasts, due to the fact that his entire life was destroyed, by Shimura Nana’s neglect, by a hero abandoning her child, by the system failing to save Shimura Tenko when he was in trouble, by All Might choosing to turn a blind eye to the child she abandoned and not even knowing of his existence, all of these factors build up to make Shigaraki the central victim of what is essentially the entral conflict of the hero system the ALL MIGHT VS AFO FIGHT. He has suffered the same way the outcasts have and thus he speaks to them. 

Shigaraki and Twice are both people who suffer from heavy mental illness, due to the fact that they suffered several consecutive ‘bad days’. Not a single person from that society reached out to help a hand, they were expected to handle it entirely on their own. Even though Twice was a sixteen year old who lost his parents in a villain attack he got no support. Even though Shigaraki was a child, not a single hero came to rescue him.

They both represent the irony that a literal society of heroes, will not save people like this, Shigaraki and Twice because they were bad, ugly victims. They both present their mental illness in an in your face, disturbing sort of way, despite the fact that Twice is a friendly guy looking for someone to understand his problems, despite the fact that Shigaraki is an orphaned child who is acting this way because the only father figure that took him in was a villain and he believes he owes him. 

Shigaraki and Toga are both labeled as outsiders because of their quirk. Both Toga’s own parents, and the Meta Liberation Army believe that it was Toga’s own quirk that drove her insane, and not her parents calling her a demon child and telling her to repress themselves. They only happened to be born with the quirk, but because nobody will accept them as who they are it comes to define their entire life.

Shigaraki and Chisaki are both children who were orphaned and picked up by a crimminal syndicate specifically because they have a powerful quirk. They are both raised into tools that have all of their humanity stripped away from them. And even then they feel obligated to pay back the people who used them, feeling like they owe them because it is their only paternal figure.

Shigaraki heavily parallels both Dabi (if he is Touya) and Shoto, as well as Hawks, because he was raised not as a child to be loved but as a hero. His primary reason for being picked up was because of his quirk. Todoroki and Shigaraki were raised as successors for another person, and not allowed to be their own person. They were both exposed to extreme amounts of violence when they were young. Shigaraki and Hawks both had their entire childhoods destroyed to be a tool of opposite sides, one a villain and one a hero.

Shigaraki even parallels Midoriya, as a quirkless kid who wanted to be a hero. Who was only bullied and put down, even by his own family members for just wanting to follow his dream. 

Not only that, but timing wise the Eri arc is literally also the first time we see Shigaraki drawn in a much more human light, and how different he is from the villain that first raided UA at the start of the manga by how he interacts with his allies. 

That there is a human behind the mask of a villain. 

Therefore, the Overhaul arc brings up the idea that saving people can be difficult, painful, but it’s also ultimately worth it to save victims who are in pain no matter how hard it might be. The reason this was brought up was not just for Eri’s sake, but to lay the groundwork for Shigaraki being saved. Because saving people is what heroes do. 

Shigaraki is center to that theme, because he parallels every victim in the manga and is the second most important character to the central conflict of the manga (the fight between AFO and OFA) to Deku himself. Which is why it’s important to understand that neither Shigaraki and Eri were born to destroy, they are both victims reacting to their individual circumstances. 

For Deku to grow as a character, for his words “I want to save everyone” to actually mean something, then he’s challenged to understand someone like Shigaraki who is difficult to understand, and that Shigaraki is also a part of everyone. 

[threadsketchier]

I think sw hits different when you grow older and your view of the world changes. As a child I envied Luke, he went to crazy adventures with his bffs and became a hero. But now I just feel really sorry for him. Everyone tried to rule his life, his destiny. And even though he controlled his own destiny at the end it still painful. In the end, Luke isn't a glorified hero, he's just a battered and bruised soul who had to grow up so fast and has many scares. Now I understand Yoda better

when 900 years old you reach, feel as good you will not

wars not make one great

(sorry I’m excavating an ancient ask)

The primary themes/takeaways of SW is compassion and the reward of holding out hope in darkness, but the “war is actually kinda hell” theme isn’t far behind.  This is basically the meat of Luke’s entire arc.  He’s the naive, fresh-faced, idealistic farmboy who gets bitch-slapped with the ambiguity of reality.  (So was Leia, who knew what she was getting into far more than Luke and yet was still fundamentally altered by the genocide of Alderaan.)

Everybody was pinning hopes on somebody else in this saga - Leia called Obi-Wan her “only hope,” and then Obi-Wan called Luke their “last/only hope” twice.  There was a whole lot of expectation thrown around that wasn’t always met, for better or for worse.  Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted Luke to overcome the Sith and save the Jedi from extinction just as much as Luke himself wanted to become a Jedi for the sake of his father, a motivation that started out with blatant vengeance.  Vader wanted Luke to be the justification of his deeds and the strength he needed to overthrow Palpatine, while still remaining on the Dark Side - aka, having his cake and eating it too.  Palpatine wanted to use Luke as either the means to crush what was left of Vader’s soul or totally replace him with a shiny new apprentice.

Yes, Luke surmounted all the confusion and doubt and fear in the end, and made the right choice at the right time.  But it did take his father sacrificing his life to both save him and finally YEET Palps.  He got the inner peace and contentment of knowing his dad was in a better place now and reconciling with him...but that doesn’t completely abolish the pain, of both the immediate loss and all the horror that came before it.  He lost both his mentors - yes, they’re not totally gone, they’re in the Force, but they’re largely inaccessible.  His aunt, uncle, and best friend were all killed.  He’s stuck with the massive burden of rebuilding a Jedi Order he hardly knows anything about.  That’s a whole lot of shit for this kid:

to go through.  Who in his ignorance definitely didn’t sign up for it.

That’s the whole thing, the TL;DR: growing up sucks.  It hurts, in one way or another.  Life is not a clean, shiny, fun pew-pew adventure.  People lie or disappoint you, either out of actual malice or because they themselves are damaged or you just need a hard, ugly wake-up call about how the world actually works.

Now, here’s the other thing: Luke is both a glorified hero and a battered, bruised, scarred soul.  He’s at the both ends of the spectrum:

freshman year to senior year’s pretty rough ain’t it

There are people who will always laud and view him as a Big Damn Hero™.  Destroyer of the Death Star, He Who Conquered the Emperor and Darth Vader.  Even those who see him as he really is still consider him a hero in the truest sense because they know his heart, they know how much he cares, that he’d give the shirt off his own back and lay down his own life for just about anyone.  And then we have stories like Shadows of Mindor where Luke nearly drowns in self-recrimination.  Everyone else around him, even the jaded Geptun, paints him as a hero while Luke refuses to accept that, focusing on all the losses instead, all the lives he couldn’t save, all the destruction he couldn’t stop, how his personal decisions tend to result in mass death.  That’s not a healthy mindset and he obviously gets out of that hole eventually, and per Legends EU Luke also passed through times where he didn’t necessarily view himself as a hero per se, but the responsibility burden kind of went to his head in a way where he viewed himself as having to do things himself, of needing to control things, and there’s a certain arrogance in that, in losing himself up his own “Jedi Master” ass.  Gotta go learn the Dark Side so I can maybe gank Sheev-O 2.0 once and for all.  Gotta gather a bunch of people in a Jedi Jungle Friendship Camp who maybe needed some psych therapy first because the galaxy needs the Jedi again.  Gotta rebuild one of my dad’s emo goth castles with my mind and go mope in it because I’m having a pre-mid-life crisis and can’t talk to my family like a normal human being.

Luke is in the best place when he finds the middle ground, the semi-happy medium in-between confidence and humility.  Battlefront II did such an elegant job of showing that ideal balance - a Luke who accepts there are losses in battle, including the ones he has to dish out himself, but doesn’t fixate on that and focuses on just quietly helping others.  And it took the pain of his experiences to forge him into that kind of person.  Luke was a nice kid when he started out, but everything he went through sharpened his empathy into the well-honed weapon he wields later on.  So while it sucks that he did have to suffer a lot to get there - and I’d personally want to wrap him in 1000 blankets and give him a half-gallon mug of hot chocolate - in the end Luke wouldn’t want people to feel sorry for him, because he was able to make something good out of all the bad.  Still, it’s a sobering thought in the vein of “be careful what you wish for.”

[ziracona]

Could you elaborate on that Gordon fan theory about him being an inside mole? I haven't heard of it before and it sounds intriguing. Plus ever since the small reference to him on the memorial in ILM, I've been wondering what your thoughts were on how he ended up

Oof, okay, buckle up. This will be the abridged version but that’s still gonna be long. (Don’t read if you want to avoid spoilers for the Saw franchise).

So, in Saw, Gordon is a fkn anomaly to most of the fanbase. Becuase he has a wildly solidified character. You watch Gordon & Adam both go through three different character arcs back to back, and trauma bond, and the second to last scene in Saw is this fkn devestating & beautiful one where—let me back up. So. Quick Saw summary. Two people wake up chained by the ankle to pipes in a small nasty abandoned bathroom with a corpse on the floor between them. They’re each left a tape recorder which tells them why they’ve been targeted (Gordon because he doesn’t value life enough which is evidenced by...? — real reason is he’s literally just the unfortunate Doctor who told John he had Cancer, and John Kramer is that petty of a stupid bitch. & Adam is grabbed becuase...Literally he didn’t even bump into John Kramer or something. The guy took him because he’s a starving early 20s kid who is a photographer, and John thinks his occupation & he are pathetic. I’m not joking. Or exaggerating. This is quite literally the given reason for torturing & killing Adam being fine to John). Anyway, Gordon’s wife and like 7 year old daughter have been kidnapped and are being held at gunpoint. Gordon is told that if he finds a way to murder Adam by six (poor Fkn Adam is 6 feet away & hears this whole tape) on the clock, they and he go free. Adam is told if he can stay alive until after six, he wins and can go free.

They spend then the remaineder of Saw trying, like you’d hope good, decent, or even medium or somewhat shitty people would, to help each other escape, rather than Gordon trying to kill Adam at all. They attempt to fake Adam’s death & fail bc they didn’t realize their shackles were wired & they could be zapped, which makes playing dead really hard. Initially they are frustrated by each other, especially Gordon, who is an adult & levelheaded, by Adam who is young and jouvenile and freaking out & being a pain at first, but they bond through attempting to escape & to figure out what’s happened to them, and also learn more truth about each other. Meanwhile you also get backstory on Jigsaw & the case, and follow Detective Tapp’s story through a few investigated murders, the loss of his partner, and to where he is following Gordon, whom he is convinced is Jigsaw, now. Back in the bathroom, Adam and Gordon reach 6 on the clock, and Gordon gets a phone call where the man holding his wife at gunpoint makes her tell him he failed his game & now she and their daughter have to die. His wife bites the man’s hand, and they fight, but all Gordon hears is screaming in his wife and child’s voices and gunshots, and he has a mental breakdown believing they’re being murdered on the other end of the phone. Then is electrocuted. Adam flips out and tries to throw small stones at Gordon’s body to wake him up, terrified he’s dead, and succeeds. Adam is overcome with relief, but Gordon has a full mental breakdown, almost having died and believing his family is dead, then swapping immediately to denial and convincing himself it’s not too late and he can still save them. Adam tries desperately to apologize and calm him down, then to in horror talk him into stopping while he watched Gordon begin to saw off his foot (Adam was given a saw for this purpose too, but his broke early on before they realized the saws were meant for their feet instead of the chains). Gordon does not stop, and Adam watches in horror as he cuts off his foot, crawls to the gun the dead body on the floor has been holding, and puts the one bullet he was given into it. He tells Adam while crying and breaking down that he’s sorry but he has to die he has to save his family. Adam begs him not to shoot, but he does.

Meanwhile, Bc he’s staking out Gordon’s home, Tapp hears shots, runs in, and is able to chase off the killer and save Gordon’s wife and daughter. He pursues the killer to the meat packing plan, where he is ambushed, struggles, and then is shot in the stomach and left for dead. The man, Zepp, makes it to the bathroom where Gordon tries to shoot him with the bow empty gun & screams at him for what he did to his family, who he still believes are dead, then breaks down crying again. Zepp takes out a gun and tells him he failed to kill Adam by 6, so he has to die. Gordon asks hopeless why, and he tells him those are the rules, then goes to shoot him while Gordon tries to shut his eyes and brace for death. Adam, who is not dead, grabs Zepp’s feet and drags him down in a surprise attack, rips the toilet bowl lid off the toilet, and beats him to death with it, saving Gordon, who watches in shock and then crawls over and puts a hand on his shoulder and gets him to stop beating the dead corpse. Adam is wounded & criying because gunshot wounds fkn hurt, & Gordon tries to comfort him. Tells him it’s just a flesh wound—it’s his shoulder—he’ll be okay. Just keep pressure on it. He has to go get help. Adam begs him not to leave him alone in the bathroom, but Gordon says he has to or he’s going to bleed to death (which is incredibly visually apparent). Adam tries to keep him, then watches him crawl and pleads for him to wait and asks if they’re going to be okay? Gordon tells him “I wouldn’t lie to you.” and gives him a reassuring smile while half dead and crawls out to look for help. Adam is left alone and searches Zepp’s corpse for keys to his shackle, then finds a tape exactly like his & Gordon’s. He plays it, and realizes to his horror this man Zepp was another victim, not Jigsaw. He was poisoned and told to kidnap Gordon’s family & shoot them both & Gordon if Gordon lost to earn an antidote, or just accept death and refuse to participate. While the tape plays, the corpse in the room with them stands up, and Adam realizes to overwhelming horror it has been alive the whole time, and it is Jigsaw, who wanted a front row seat to their torture, suffering, and death. He tries to grab Zepp’s gun & shooot him, but Jigsaw/John electrocutes him w a remote (the shackles are wired) and leaves, congratulating him on winning & telling him where his key is (it got flushed down a drain when Adam woke up, which John no doubt planned), then telling him “Game Over” and locking him alone in the bathroom because John’s a fake ass piece of shit who doesn’t even keep his promises & let the winners go.

The end scene between Adam and Gordon is phenomenal & heart wrenching (Saw is an amazing character piece of a film, & the first film is the reason it became a modern horror staple! Watch here if you’re curious! :’-]

While Gordon does eventually, under extreme duress, shoot Adam, he never wants to kill him, and they are definitely close by the end of the film (which is clear both from the way they treat each other, and their more decisive actions, like Adam risking his life to save Gordon after being shot by him & never seeking recompense for the gunshot, Gordon trying to help Adam & comfort him as well as get help for them both). This is the central relationship of Saw 1, and it’s really well done.

Then, in Saw 2, there’s just no mention of Gordon going back to save Adam. We wonder what happened, until Amanda & Danny stumble to the bathroom form Saw 1 & you are greeted by Adam’s decaying corpse still chained there. It’s later revealed that Gordon escaped the bathroom, cauterized his wound on a hot pipe because he knew he was going to die otherwise, then passed out from pain. John found him and took him to his workshop, where he nursed him back to health & gave him a prosthetic leg, before convincing him to join the team.

Understandably, this did not sit well with any of the Saw fandom. We fight about all kinds of stuff, but the one thing I’ve like, never seen disagreement on, is that it makes no fkn sense for Gordon to betray Adam like that after how close they were, and it makes even less sense he’d willingly join the man who super tried to murder his wife and kid. If it wasn’t for Tapp and Adam, Gordon, his wife, and his child would be dead now. John endangered all 3 intentionally, and did not save or spare any of them.

Still with me? So. Because of that, people started digging. Now, out of Jigsaw’s apprentices, Gordon is the only one who never takes a very active roll. He did not run games or kidnap people. Becuase he was a doctor, John called him in to do medical work for tests, such as sewing a key into the eye of the man from the cold open to Saw II. The only active work he takes is catching Hoffman at the end of Saw 3D & locking him in the basement, which John asked him to do if Hoffman killed Jill (which Hoffman does). This together with Gordon’s character led to a massive fan theory. Let me try to break it down.

After Saw 1, Gordon joins a support group for Jigsaw game survivors, and returns to his family. We get very little info about him period until Saw 3D though. However! Pre Saw 1, Jigsaw basically never lost, the cops never even got close. Suddenly after Saw 1, the entire gang falls apart, starting with Amanda and John, then finally Hoffman & Jill. In Saw 3, it’s revealed Amanda went back to the bathroom to kill Adam when he survived his test. She promises she’s there to help him when he wakes up scared and half dead in the dark, and then puts a plastic bag over his head and smothers him while he fights. This lead to a fan theory that Gordon went back to save Adam once he could (able to walk & not being shadowed by Jigsaw), but was too late, and decided to take revenge very carefully. However, Amanda has a shit track record of thinking she killed someone & not checking for a pulse (see Eric Matthews, who she thought she beat to death), so the even more popular theory is that Adam was not dead by the time Gordon got to him, and Gordon saved him and replaced his corpse with another. This theory is backed by the fact that Adam was shot in the shoulder, but when the body is seen in other films, it is both too decayed to be recognizable, and the gunshot wound is in the stomach (where Tapp was shot). Furthermore, when Amanda & Danny find Zepp and “Adam”’s bodies in Saw 2, Zepp, who was already partially bald, still has hair, yet Adam’s corpse is completely bald. The shackle is also on the wrong foot now, which would indicate it was removed and then replaced by someone in a hurry. Now, obviously it’s possible this was just a continuity error, but given that Saw usually has a good track record with continuity (and uses them a lot for big reveals), that gives more weight than usual to the theory.

So, this led to the idea that Gordon was able to either save Adam, or at least remove his body & bury it, replaced it with a fake (possibly Tapp? but considering the bodies wouldn’t be decayed enough for the skin to be missed if he did it when Adam was alive or in decent preserve even, and Tapp is considerably taller, I’d assume he, as a doctor, didn’t have too much trouble stealing a John Doe cadaver from the hospital) corpse in Adam’s clothes, then agreed to help Jigsaw becuase he was smart enough to know if he didn’t play along, John would kill him (he would, and has. He never lets people with dangerous information go). John also tends to have failsafes in place, like “if Gordon betrays me, kill his daughter” kind of stuff, so the theory is Gordon played along to keep his family safe, instead of going to the cops, since he knew at least Hoffman worked for Jigsaw already, and there might be more plants, and did his best to engineer the breakdown and eventual demises of the whole team from Saw 1 on. (Was the one who gave Hoffman the idea to threaten Amanda or the info to do it, intentionally failed to protect Jill from Hoffman to have an easy excuse to kill/see both dead, etc). Makes double sense if Adam was alive, becuase if Gordon revealed himself as mole, first thing Jigsaw & co would check is what else he messed with, and they knew he was close to Adam.

There’s a lot more details to it, but that’s the short version. Most people I know in the Saw fandom ascribe to it in a weird kind of “Look I know it’s probably just inconsistent character writing and in that case fuck Gordon he can go to hell, but since I truly don’t believe Saw 1 Lawrence Gordon would do this & there’s enough evidence for reasonable doubt, I choose to believe the convoluted theory that makes him make sense & also means Adam could maybe be alive” way. Including me. If Gordon really decides he has no issue with John after what he did to him, his baby girl, Adam, and his poor wife, joins him willingly & helps, then he’s as bad as Amanda & Hoffman & fuck that guy. But since the characterization doesn’t match /at all/ & there’s never an explanation given, & fan theory makes more sense, I tend to think of Gordon as if the fan theory is right? Although if you don’t & thus hate Gordon, 100% respect. I just cannot watch Saw 1 & believe Lawrence would join up for any reason but revenge & long con to keep family safe. I mean, he tried to kill a /friend/ to save his family. You’re really going to try to convince me the man who cut off his own foot by hand to try to save his wife and daughter would ever be cool with or forgive the man who tried to execute them for no reason? Uhhh, to quote Dr. Gordon himself,

I mean.

💁🏻‍♀️ You can’t convince me the man this hellbent on destroying the man who was threatening his family did not make him pay, and just decided to be pals. You can’t. It’s inconsistent writing. :’-] anyway, there’s other info too—one of the disguised figures who helps Lawrence take out Hoffman is the exact height Adam was, the plastic bag from Amanda is gone & the corpse in a different position, etc—been like 2 years so I don’t even remember it all, but it’s very fascinating. & that’s the short yet somehow still too long version of the Gordon theory I definitely did not proof read at all for which I apologize! It’s more convincing than I write it I swear I am just exhausted. :’-] But yeah, most saw fans ascribe to it, which is why we all seem to still like Gordon, and he’s so often shipped with Adam, both of which would probably otherwise seem massively confusing. Hope it helps!

(Oh! & in ILM, since i ascribe to that theory, I wrote him that way. Failed to save Adam, buried his body, then took slow, careful revenge on Jigsaw & co. to keep his family safe. Knows there are deaths he is not blameless for becuase of that, and is full of guilt over wondering if going to the police wouldn’t have saved people, even if he had understandable doubts & reasons for what he did. Is especially guilty for Adam’s death. Seeks to make reparations slowly his own way. [tho also soemtimes secretive characters lie to me until it becomes necessary for me to know, so it’s possible Gordon saved Adam & is hiding it, but given the whole gang is dead, I don’t know why he still would be, so I think ILM verse all he could do was bury the body]).

[nicollekidman]

abby can you talk on how deancas and tenrose are the same?

okay so i need to preface this with the usual…. cannot believe i am enlightened enough to be seriously discussing this in the year 2020, but i’m happy for my teen self. also there is about to be a lot of unhinged earnestness to follow, so if you’re easily succebtable to cringe… don’t read on. ALSO RIP I WROTE 1800 WORDS about just the most general and nonspecific concepts…… brb k wording myself 

first off i think it’s so funny that i just went back and looked and i typed cas/ten as a one and dean/rose as a six completely independently so… that’s where my head is at. 

i think the meat of the issue is the way that tenrose and deancas function both in relation to the overall narrative and each other. there are many differences of course, but at the end of the day, both relationships are positioned as the ultimate working example of what their shows are trying to be About. 

i could write an entirely separate essay on the intersections between cas and the doctor, but essentially…… these are figures introduced to the audience as Beyond Human Understanding. they exist as celestial beings unconstrained by the rules of space and time, more closely connected to god than humanity. we meet the doctor farther along in his journey than castiel, but both of their character arcs are rooted in a Godlike Creature observing humanity and becoming enamored with it/driven to protect and care for it. by the time the doctor meets rose, it is well established that he has a soft spot for humanity, she’s not the one who teaches him that. but she is the one he reaches out to and leans on for support and healing post-time war, and she is the one who influences ten’s regeneration so deeply that he is made in her image/for her. castiel rebuilds dean atom by atom is hell, and upon rescuing him from the pit, finds himself similarly irrevocably altered. it is revealed to us that castiel also has had a long affection for humanity, but nothing swayed him from his ultimate duty before he met dean. and just as the doctor finds himself with a family for the first time after gallifrey with rose and her mother on the estate, castiel finds himself cut off from his family/realm, but with a new family, team free will. they lose everything, their attachment to the heavens, and find a new family and a new reason to continue, in these humans. 

dean and rose also are the ultimate Human Credentials. we all know this term to be indicative of someone who confers humanity onto the other, someone who, by mere accompaniment, allows their beloved to more safely/easily navigate life. and it’s true in this sense. rose is constantly reminding ten how to Be Human (”am i being rude?”) in both big and small ways, just as dean more or less badgers castiel in the same way ( “dude. we talked about this”). neither cas nor ten would be as intimately connected with their “human sides” with their partners. but dean and rose are also Human Credentials in a broader sense, in that….. they act as character references for the rest of humanity, and by virtue of their own selves/their partner’s attachment to them, guarantee investment in the rest of the human race. castiel is more-or-less content to watch from heaven and take orders until he rescues dean and becomes involved with his life (”the moment castiel laid a hand on you in hell he was lost”). his love and affection for dean and his willingness to bend everything to keep him safe means that castiel learns to defy heaven for the good of humanity. ten has always loved humans, but he loves rose a little differently. The Doctor Needs Someone, and we see rose’s power as his human credential most strongly when she’s gone. Without rose, ten is more willing to put himself/others in danger, to make choices that will result in death, to be callous and reckless and thoughtless. rose’s presence is a constant reminder that humanity is Worth the Trouble, that he’s never met anyone who wasn’t important. 

for rose and dean…. these are two, completely Normal, Average People. or so they think anyways. the burdens they carry and their inner lives are very different, but in very simple ways, they both would’ve continued their lives believing there was nothing special about them, getting up to Do Their Duty, never asking for anything special. both view themselves are caretakers, although this manifests differently bc rose is a bratty 19 year old and dean never got the opportunity to be a teenager. but both Feel Deeply in ways/levels that others don’t. each has an extremely open heart and a need to protect/provide for the little people. what ten and cas give them is an entirely new perspective, whereupon it starts to be possible to believe that even the smallest person can affect the world for better, and that they, specifically Deserve More. 

THEN we have the ideas of religion/free will/fate that intertwine both shows. rtd’s doctor who was explicitly and obviously written with the intent to show an atheist universe where the human spirit and mind are enough on their own to be holy, to determine right and wrong, and to decide the events of the universe. obviously ten is often situated in christ-like positions, but he learns from humanity as much as they teach him. supernatural is a little more complicated, with an alternate vision of accepted figures of christianity, but both shows heavily emphasize the power of human kindness, passion, empathy, and individual choice. ten may not live within the confines of space and time, but apocalypses in doctor who often hinge on one small person doing The Next Right Thing, just as supernatural’s base credo is We’re Writing a New Chapter. castiel bursts onto the scene and is literally taught the importance of free will by dean, and perhaps even the importance of his own desires/needs by dean. both core relationships exemplify what it means to make choices outside the realm of fate (even whilst allowing for the existence of soulmates). yes, castiel was ordered to raise dean from perdition, but their human connection is what allows the winchesters to subvert God and move outside the printed narrative - love for a human is what makes an angel CHOOSE to fall from heaven. and ten…. well ten knows that rose is going to die. ten understands from the moment he allows himself to care for her above all others, that he is dooming himself to pain and regret and loss. but he decides to do it anyways, because isn’t the best thing an otherwordly being in love with humanity can do is to eperience love and loss on a human level? both cas and ten understand that there is no love without pain, that they will be the ones to watch their beloveds leave them, but that the Choice to love out of free will is worth it. 

there’s also the element of Expression/Repression. here is where the underlying emotion remains similar but the freedom of how exactly to illustrate these feelings could not be more different. tenrose is a heterosexual relationship at the end of the day, and their storylines require them to be alone in each other’s presence nearly 100% of the time. thus, we get LOTS of familiar touching, lots of body language and casual intimacy and teasing. dean and cas…. lol. not so much. instead of physicality, we get looks, both because of dean’s own upbringing/sexuality and because they exist on the show that they do. deancas deals in the unspoken - the acts of service, the grace healings, the tense moments of battle, the lack of personal space. the expression is different, but the emotion is the same. ten and dean hold themselves back from the more Obvious open-book partners, for their own personal reasons. the end effect being that everyone on screen understands/insinuates what’s happening, and their relationship is so thick with subtext its a wonder no one suffocates. Words are seen as the ultimate step, once which cannot be overcome in normal life. both pairs use death/separation as the final step towards full transparency, but even then we are never granted the ultimate catharsis of an I Love You. castiel couches his confessions in generalizations towards groups, and dean swallows his truth even in prayer. rose says the words through a veil of uncrossable distance, but she doesn’t get to hear them back. they can Know, and we can Understand, but we cannot hear it. 

lastly (for now)…. and perhaps as an ultimate summation…….. death and parallel universes and fate cannot stop them, those who are drawn to each other through heaven and hell, through time and realities. it is to be understood that will all four individuals fight to ensure that each human being is safe, protected, and able to make their own choices they are soulmates. they are soulmates who are bound to each other to be sure, but they’re not Fated in a way that takes away their free will. they’re fated by the series of choices they make, over and over again, to prioritize each other, to traverse time and space and dimension and hell to get back to one another. god cannot see castiel in his plans for the world, and yet castiel has evaded death again and again, to give dean a win. nothing could tear rose away from her doctor, and even while trapped in another dimmension, she hears his voice, she runs to him, and she finds a way to get back to him. each and every choice they make brings them back to one another, regardless of the ultimate ending. we don’t know yet if we will ever hear castiel and dean get their doomsday moment, but we do know that in order for castiel to leave dean’s side, an entirely new dimmension (the empty) will have to be in play to keep them apart. 

ultimately, castiel and ten are both celestial beings with self-worth issues but a burning and true desire to see humanity thrive, directly and indirectly because of their attachment to dean and rose. dean and rose make castiel and ten more human, all while exemplifying why human is a good thing to be. dean and rose become more themselves under cas and ten’s influence, both are given more opportunity to bloom into who they are meant to be. all four become More in the presence of each other, and save the world while doing it. ultimately there is a heavy dose of tragedy in both - whether or not dean and cas get their moment is yet to be seen, but these are still Soulmates with differing relationships to mortality. but is there anything sweeter than defying god’s and fate and our own doubts to grab love with both hands, even when we know there will be pain? 

[last-of-the-jaded]

After having willingly given the last month of my life over to MDZS and it’s Live Action counterpart I wanted to compile a list of my favorite aspects of both (including spoilers). Both the original Chinese Novel and it’s stunning 2019 Summer Release counterpart are breathtaking in different manners, but if you are looking for a quick recommendation, I do recommend going for the drama first as it will simplify the further consumption of content if you decide you want to partake in more.

What I love about THE UNTAMED:

The symbolism of the cliff at Nightless City, and how that entire scene marks a clear shift in Wuxian’s mental state as well as the overarching story. Similarly, how in the end it is Wuxian who throws himself off that precipice to sure death. This detail provides a direct comparison between his mental state at this moments and Cheng’s after his core was squashed, while also touching on an unique level of disparity and regret that is unrealized in the novel at this point (considering how this isn’t how Wuxian dies in the written version)

Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo. I’ve made posts about this already so I’ll spare you another essay (Here and Here)

Jiang Cheng’s entire character arc. Seeing him fully fleshed out, utilized, and properly human within the drama made it hard for me to swallow how shallow he often felt on paper, especially in the early chapters. I get that this is partially due to the youth sequences in the book being written completely from Wuxian’s POV, but for me there is something incredibly human and genuine just lacking from the version of Cheng on paper that stood out so gorgeously for me in terms of his drama counterpart. Wang Zhou Cheng did an amazing job bringing out his raw emotion and anger on screen, lines were delivered in a manner that truly solidified this characters growth and vulnerability to me. For such a new actor within his field he did a brilliant job, and is the reason I have so many damn emotions concerning Jiang Cheng’s character arc. (I have a million analysis pieces typed up on my blog if that interests you)

The sequential order for the flashbacks was incredibly easy to consume. It helped to keep events and motivations clear. I understand why the book was able to skip around in a more winding mysterious manner, but from a drama standpoint I massively appreciated being able to consume the events leading up to Wuxian’s demise in consecutive order. The first few episodes were initially extremely confusing to me as a new watcher, and it’s only when the flashbacks hit that the plot-line solidified as well.

The female leads! Yanli, Qing, and Mianmian having larger roles and development was absolutely a plus. Everyone had the same intentions and feel as they did in the original, just more fully fleshed out since they were given time to interact within the world. As a bonus note seeing Madam Yu and hearing her bullshit on screen, said out-loud in the bitchy tone her actress gave her, made her 10X worse and from an antagonist perspective I massively appreciate that they were able to make me despise her so damn much.

Everyone important to the past storyline being involved in the Gusulan Study Sessions under Lan Qiren. This was a simple and effective manner of introducing everyone and having characters feel involved and interactive from the get-go. I was honestly a little disappointed that not everyone was included when I went on to read the novel.

Ning and Wuxian’s interactions early on. Their dynamic in the show was given life, and felt genuine in how it shifted over the course of Wuxian’s trails and misfortune. I love how they included Ning in the early on portions of the series, especially the Caiyi Town waterborn abyss debacle where Wuxian saved his life. It just added more layers to an already intriguing dynamic that plays a massive role overall.

The wolf torture scene. This added a whole new layer to Wuxian’s fear of dogs, while still completing its job of giving Ning and Wuxian a reason to interact and grow. Not to mention the example of Wen Sect Torture Tactics really added to the inhumanity of the sect while sparking our main character’s growth and self-sacrificing nature.

The symbolism behind Yanli’s and Cheng’s dreams. These dream sequences give a glimpse into the heads of two complex character’s and honestly added so much background motivation to their storylines. I loved these details and how much analysis us all as viewers can put into them.

The rain scene. Wuxian telling Wangji he would prefer to die by his hands. The first tears watchers see from an incredibly strong and willful young man who has always appeared stoic. (I cannot express to you enough how sad I was that this scene didn’t take place in the novel)

Wuxian’s mask. I understand logistically why they had to do this from a filming perspective (I mean if you have someone as good looking and Xiao Zhan, damnit you are going to let him look like him as much as you can) but I honestly really enjoyed the smaller details they included to make it work plot-wise. I also appreciate how it was designed as a prop considering it actually altered Wuxian’s features in a manner that made him harder to recognize due to its bulky and carved nature.

The secret underground cave in Cloud Recess under the bathing pool. The whole meeting between Wangxian and the female sect leader. I enjoyed this detail and how they expanded upon it when it came to the burning of their sect home and the survival of their people.

Wangxian’s relationship. Their subtle, trusting, gentle way of showing love. On an additional note I appreciate how it never once felt like I needed to discuss consent with the characters (coughNOVELcough) because everything between them was healthy and playful.

The soundtrack, costuming, and bts. I understand that this was a low budget production (compared to the majority of traditional dramas) and honestly I appreciate what we were given taking that into account. They stayed true to the essence and message of the story. I love the manner in which the costumes became a part of the characters and everyone had a clear style. The soundtrack flowed amazingly well with the scene and tone shifts (this is disregarding how fake their instrument playing looked because I’m still not over how off the finger movements appeared at points). The behind the scenes content on its own could win an award - it made completing the show a million times more satisfying because I do believe that the people working on set had fun (somehow even while filming during the hottest time of the year)

The name of the drama. When you reach that moment when you understand why it is called such - it’s a tale of the rise and fall of Wuxian.

The ending scene. I know it’s not the ‘stereotypical happy ending’ fans wanted, but it perfectly fit the tone and message of the piece as a whole. I love the ending. It felt right.

What I love about MDZS (NOVEL):

The Yi City Arc. It’s worth reading for this part alone. Motivations, logic, and everything just hit so much harder. I do appreciate what the drama gave us, but like, once you’ve tasted this version it’s really hard to go back.

Empathy. In general seeing Wuxian use empathy within the novel just works so much smoother. His little anecdotes and analysis while in stasis reliving ghost’s lives gives it a realism that it’s lacking on camera.

Second Siege of the Burial Mounds. The way the novel sets up this part and actually makes it feel scary with hoard mentality makes it work so much better. It feels like there is a weight to this moment. The waves of corpses are terrifying, and the exhaustion of fighting for hours gives it a level of humanity that makes what Wuxian and Wangji selflessly do stand out even more. Not to mention, the leftovers of the Wen Sect fucked me up. I bawled. This is another detail that I would legitimately read the entire novel over for just to experience.

Wuxian being fucking terrifying at points. Playing with demonic energy and losing control is supposed to be scary. In the novel it honestly felt that way. Seeing him slowly get worse was heartbreaking. Watching how people’s opinions on him skewed, and how he dealt with looks, pressure, and weight on his shoulders, took this arc to a whole new level. The way demons and ghosts flocked to and around him in public added a level of horror that was unsettling and necessary.

Wuxian actually losing control. In the drama they added another flute player to sort of work around Wuxian having to accept the result of his failure. In the novel, there is no such thing -  and I love it. It’s another dowsing to the pain and suffering Wuxian has to accept and learn to overcome.  It makes him coming back a decade later - to live and achieve and get revenge - feel different.

Action scenes and gore. If something is called “The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation” you expect some blood, and damn do I appreciate that the author made stuff have impact. I wish the drama had a bigger budget so they could have done the wounds and cgi more justice.

Wangji rescuing Wuxian after the first raid on yiling, and choosing to suffer together, hated by the world, rather than lose the love of his life. I love the use of the cliff in the drama, especially the imagery of Wangji trying to hold Wei Ying up before ultimately falling, but the route the author took in the novel is so much fucking worse. Like I cannot even imagine the pain Wangji went through.

Lan Xichen opening Wuxian’s oblivious eyes. Best brother ever. This entire scene, leading up to the final battle, is like downing a shot and waiting for it to hit. It deserves a standing ovation.

The details in the Xuanyu of Slaughter cave sequence. Every little tell that Wangji gave - he really did fall in love young.

Mingjue’s corpse. The separated limbs, angry spirit, holding bags, and everything made sense because of description.

Wangji explaining how he got the brand mark over his heart. All of his scars. Fuck. There’s inferring, and then there is having it described to you from the person directly and feeling as your own heart dies.

Lan Zhan’s insane arm strength. This is a detail that deserves recognition.

Wuxian’s inner analysis of Nei Huaisang at the end. This was fully formed and actually had some payoff.

The clear comparisons between Mengyao’s fate and what happened to Wuxian himself. Once again you can infer in the drama, but having it clearly implied in the book hits different because when someone becomes a public pariah it’s easier to go with the public outcry than try and defend them. “Nobody knew with more clarity than Wei WuXian that nobody would care and nobody would believe”

Ning protecting Jin Ling and Jiang Cheng in a manner directly parallel to how he killed the people they cared for.

Jin Ling’s realization about being unable to hate anyone in the end. You feel for this kid. You want to see him grow up well.

The beginning set up chapter. Hearing what happened in the past vaguely through spreading rumors and small talk without seeing it for yourself adds a level of intrigue. It has greater mystery than just seeing the scene play-out and cutting away.

Everything making sense in general with no plot holes. It’s one of those things where in television no matter how well you do, you can’t possibly include all the needed details. With the drama you have to infer a lot, and sometimes you will get it wrong. In the novel it really is just much easier to make sense of. This also included the pacing as well. Timeskips make sense.

Kissing. Smut. Damn, it’s so nice to have actual payoff for the slow burn.

[kaypeace21]

What’s ur theories or what you want to see throughout season 3 for stranger things and what can you see for will for his arc

I literally would not be able to discuss every s3 theory I have in one post XD. But I can specify what theories/hopes I have for Will’s story arc in s3.

1) I want Will’s (not supernatural) PTSD to be addressed, as well as he deep-seeded  abandoment issues(caused by Lonnie), and low self-esteem to be addressed. He probably blames himself for Lonnie leaving, and causing his family’s financial issues (which will only worsen because of the new mall). Not to mention Will probably blames himself for Bob’s death- the only cannon romantic love interest in Joyce’s life, since Lonnie. Will clearly has a low self esteem and when people ‘leave him’ he blames himself entirely. A good indicator of this, was when Jonathan says he has friends. And Will is confused and says … 

This in itself is extremely telling of how Will views himself. After s1 despite all the kids, teens, and adults doing everything they could to save him (risking their lives to do so) he still doesn’t understand why any of them actual would want to hang around him- he doesn’t see ‘his appeal- his worth’. He doesn’t like himself . He sees himself as a burden, just like his dad perceived him. And because of his abandonment issues, and somewhat iffy social skills, he probably assumes in both s1-2 they saved him out of obligation. And because of his abandonment issues,  he’s constantly feeling like a burden and always over-apologizing.  And since Will already feels like a burden, because of his dad, his PTSD,  and the upside-down incident he’s constantly apologizing .There was a reason Will didn’t tell Joyce what he saw in s1! He yells “I’m sorry “ and snuggles into his mom when he’s trying to explain the mindflayer to Hopper and Joyce. And Joyce says something indicative to his character (before anything supernatural occurs).

Joyce: “You feeling any better? Will?”

Will: “Huh? Yeah… Sorry.”

Joyce: “Hey… what’d we talk about, huh? You gotta stop it with the sorry’s.”

Will : “Yeah, sorry. I mean… yeah, I know.”

This illustrates that Joyce has already discussed the fact that Will over-apologizes . But Will still does it very often, even after these 2 separate discussions. 

I think in s3 we’ll see a cumulative reaction to how Will’s experiences have shaped him in a very sad and problematic way. Dustin starts hanging out with Steve, Lucas has a girlfriend, Jonathan will probably be too busy trying to financially support the family/dating Nancy, and to top it all off he then has a fight with Mike about not being “ kids anymore”. I think Mike will lash out, but Will will take the argument much harsher than he usually would (because all of his insecurities are piling up one after the other).So through Will’s perception, he just feels alone and like he’s being abandoned all over again, by the people who he thought would never do this to him.

2) Will’s destroys Castle Byers (Theory). I actually predicted here, that Will would destroy Castle Byers(right after his fight with Mike)- before the track list even came out. I thought this would be the case, because of Castle Byers symbolic importance. Which is why hopefully it’s Will,  not some other force that destroys it.

Will uses castle Byers as the one place he feels safe while in the upside down, or just on a daily basis. But it’s still a reminder of his deep-seeded abandonment issues. The day Will’s dad left , Jonathan and Will built Castle Byers all night in the pouring rain. Jonathan saying “we just had to finish it no matter what”. Will was the one who made-up Castle Byers in his imagination, and drew it, before Lonnie even left. He drew the sign “all friends welcome”, because with Lonnie around he never felt ‘welcome’ in his own home. So then when Will goes to Castle Byers in s3 at night in the pouring rain … he’s probably thinking that Mike (and his friends) are going to abandon him just like his dad did! 

Will wants time to stop, to regain the childhood he lost, but he can’t cry about it now -since he’s officially a teenager . And everyone else is moving on. He feels like he’s being abandoned in a “ teenage wasteland”

So I think Will may in a fit of rage destroy Castle Byers (probably using his fire powers). Similar to how El  had a psychic fit and accidentally destroyed all the windows in the cabin.

However unlike the El scene, it quickly turns into something empowering.We’d be sad. But this in itself would be Will at least trying to symbolically move on from his father’s influence, and trying to overcome his abandonment issues. Plus s3 is all about growing up- and if Will destroys the symbol of his childhood-abandonment-issues it would symbolically indicate his change in character as he accepts that he’s now a teenager . As well as how he’ll refuse to be a victim ever again (from his dad, the mindflayer, the bullies, etc)!

 Rain in itself can signify “purification of the soul”. I don’t think all of his issues will magically go away- but it’ll be the start of his journey of acceptance & self-love.

3) I want: El to find Will in the woods right after he destroys Castle Byers.

I’ve described in a previous post that based on the symbolism and iconography of the show why Will & El represent Yin and Yang , read more here. One of the many symbols of Yin and Yang is - Yin being representative of feminity/water & Yang being representative of masculinity/fire.

Will is always referenced with fire in both the comic and show . He drew his wizard character shooting fireballs in s1 and in the first ep he rolled the dice and yelled “fireball”, he had the ‘shadow monster ‘ exorcised out of him with fire, and in the comic he shoots a demogorgan and yells “fireball”. El’s element or ‘substance would be the opposite of fire, “water” - the sensory deprivation tanks are filled with water, the void floor is covered in water, she escaped the lab through a drainage pipe, looked at a reflection of herself in a puddle and cased ripples in it using her powers,  in s3 is shown sinking in water and falling out of a vanishing tub, etc.

Yin (water) and Yang (fire) have to  be “in perfect balance” (if one’s presence is stronger than the other)  “catastrophes will occur” and there will be an “imbalance between the cosmic and human realms”.  And throughout the 1st two seasons that’s exactly what happened! If El was shown prominantely then Will was gone or unconscious (or vice versa). There is a symbolic tear between the real world and upside down (because of this imbalance). And having them both be there - as a lit fire of castle byers burn, and rain pours would indicate -that their both starting to find balance. And that they’ll finally team up because of the supernatural threat.

Not to mention the last time Will was at his lowest and went to Castle Byers who found him and even read aloud his mantra/ sign of “all friends welcome”? Right, El!

 Not to mention in the very 1st episode, the boys went out in the rain to find Will, but found El instead (when she was also at her most scared and isolated). 

So it would be ! PURE POETIC CINEMA! DAMIT! They should do it! (El’s house is even in the woods, it all makes sense)! XD

4. I want : El lying for Will

Millie said about s3, that the biggest lie was that “friends don’t lie” ... “everybody lies”. El is still learning what it’s like to ‘be a person in the real world’ and understanding the complexity of familial, romantic, and platonic relationships. And although it’s admirable to never want to lie- it’s much more complicated in the real world. Will (who has very little control of his powers) will probably want to keep it a secret- afraid of how his friends perception of him will change if they knew. So El obliges and keeps Will’s secret- her first lie. 

5) I want: Will’s family dynamics evolving

I want to see the love Will has for his mother and brother (and vice versa). But I also want to see the growing pains involved with Will becoming a teenager, striving for independence, and dealing with the supernatural threat and his clear mental health issues. I want to see Joyce, Jonathan, and Will all grow as people- together. -Also Hopper & Will scenes

6) I want: Will to lash out and get angry

Will constantly fears abandonment and because of this he almost never lashes out- he mostly keeps everything bottled up inside. And regardless of whether it’s justified or not- he deserves to have an emotional outburst- where he SCREAMS about all of his frustrations.

7) I want El and Will talking about /experiencing their shared trauma & how they feel about El being the one who first opened the gate

I want to see happy moments for El and Will. But I also want to see El and Will in normal real-life scenarios/situations in s3. Making it more obvious the trauma of their abusive father figures still affects them deeply, and how their PTSD, quiet nature, powers, and the fact that they never had real-childhoods, causes them to feel more socially isolated and depressed than their peers. As they perceive themselves as nothing but burdens and “freaks” to their loved ones , since they’ll never feel “normal”. But they’ll learn to rely on each other.

-Plus how does Will feel about El opening the gate? El in s1 called herself a “monster” and when she couldn’t find Barb and Will, she felt so much guilt- she had to go to the bathroom to cry. Since then Will has had years of his life stolen, gotten Ptsd, possessed, burned alive, (technically) became a murderer, and was forever mutated (we’ll get to that last point later). So I’m just curious how they both feel about the whole ‘gate-situation’?

8) Byler scenes, and Will interacting more with all of his friends (and seeing the distinctions in all of those relationships and how Mike/Will’s dynamic differers from his other guy-friends, or even Will &Max’s friendship). And just having strong platonic relationships. And (not platonic) byler dynamics. I also want to see how he interacts with strangers/bullies in ‘normal’ situations.

9) Theory: I already explained here, that Will, will have a ‘dark phoenix’ moment at the mall releasing his very own mindflayer to protect his friends (right as the US government comes in to see everything).

10/11) Will and El are kidnapped by the government -theory here. However, El willing exposes her identity in order to go with Will and protect him - theory here.

*gifs/pics not mine

[makeste]

the good, the bad, and the basement

so @caliginouscarpacian asked me a while back if I could post my thoughts about the strengths and weaknesses of the Overhaul/Yakuza/Internship Arc once I finished up. so this is my post about that, now that I’ve had a little bit of time to reflect. I decided to do one of those alternating good/bad list things, so we’ll see how that goes.

this is quite a long post, so it’s under a cut. and just to be clear, this post is chock full of spoilers up through the end of the Internship Arc (chapter 161).

the good: the villains

okay, I’m starting with this one because truthfully, it’s my favorite thing about the whole arc. the League of Villains finally came into their own, and it was everything I could have hoped for. they are competent but not too overpowered. they are smart and willing to be patient and bide their time for the sake of cool plot twists. THERE’S A FUCKING CAR CHASE. there is character development! these guys actually care about each other! holy shit. there’s actual chemistry between them. they trust one another and they trust Tomura, and he shows for the first time that he might just actually be worthy of that trust. unlike some other villains I can name. anyways. these guys are amazing, and if this arc did nothing else, it firmly established them as serious, in-it-for-the-long-haul adversaries who are cool and interesting and can hold their own on-screen and whose lives and relationships I’m actually invested in. and like, they’re still evil. just to be clear. but they’re also cool and compelling and a genuine delight whenever they make an appearance, and I can’t wait to see what shenanigans they get up to next.

the bad: the villains

hahaha. okay, so I’m not even gonna talk about Overhaul yet -- he gets his own little mini-rant all to himself. but let’s talk about the Eight Precepts for a moment. I was so let down by these guys it’s not even funny. YOU ASSHOLES WERE SUPPOSED TO BE COOL. you’re the fucking yakuza for fuck’s sake! but instead they’re just boring. not one of them felt even remotely threatening, and it was just obnoxious to watch the good guys struggling against some of them. none of them had interesting personalities or backstories. a few of them did have interesting quirks (thinking specifically of the Thief quirk and the truth serum confession quirk), but they go to waste since they’re used in decidedly uninteresting ways. (seriously though, that is such a mind-blowing waste of a truth serum quirk that it’s painful to think about. it could have been used for character development, interrogations... any number of plot uses. and what does this asshole do instead? HE TRIES TO MAKE MIRIO SAD. come the fuck on.)

and arguably worse than that is the fact that they all wear the same mask. that was such a bad move on Horikoshi’s part. it means there’s no way for any of them to stand out. if their quirks or personalities weren’t going to cut it, their appearances were the only thing left, and he goes and designs them all to essentially have the same fucking face. why would you do that. as if they didn’t all blend together enough to start with.

and lastly, the blind, ferocious loyalty they all have to Overhaul is completely absurd and makes no fucking sense. like, several of them were literally like, “oh I was treated like shit all my life, and then this guy came along who also treats me like shit, but ~with him I have a place~.” the truth serum guy IIRC liked Overhaul simply because he was honest. at least Chance the Rappa had a decent reason for liking him which was that he was freakishly strong and he just wanted to defeat him. meanwhile his monk friend supposedly doesn’t like violence, and yet here he is loyally serving a man who offs his own subordinates at the drop of a hat, and whose master plan hinges on the perpetual torture of a kindergartner.

just. they all suck so much.

 the good: Sir Nighteye

Nighteye had such a great arc. I’m not the biggest fan of how it ended, because that was a perfectly good heart of mine that they ripped out and stomped all over, but aside from that, yeah. he starts out as this cold, disdainful pencil of a man, only for it to gradually be revealed that he’s really just a broken shell of himself, afraid to use his own quirk because he’s scared of whatever horrors he might see that he’ll be helpless to do anything about. he supports Mirio over Deku because he loves Mirio and genuinely thinks he’ll be the better successor, and because he loves All Might, and he’s desperate to stop his premonition from six years ago from actually coming true. it didn’t really surprise me that he became a more likable character in the end, but the degree to which it happened really caught me off guard. I was not expecting to end up loving him so much. and also I just really love the idea of the foresight quirk being as mentally damaging as it turns out to be, because it makes perfect sense, and it’s the perfect way to put such a potentially overpowered quirk in check. just, well done on every aspect of Nighteye’s character and his story arc.

the bad: Overhaul

Overhaul started out with so much potential and it all just went to shit. I’ll start with the good stuff first: his quirk is cool and terrifying, I like his character design, and I like the little touch with him being a germaphobe, even if they didn’t really do much with it in the end.

now the bad. I think my main complaint about Overhaul is that as a rule of thumb, I think that good villains should be written as though they genuinely believe they’re the heroes of their own story. this goes for all types of villains. even sociopaths take pride in being smart enough to take advantage of what they view as the stupidity and weakness of others. meanwhile, righteous villains justify their heinous acts as being for the sake of the greater good. and those villains who are in-between may feel some guilt about some of the things they’ve done, but they justify those acts as being something they had to do, or something the victim deserved, or something they themselves deserved after all of their own pain and suffering. (Tomura is a good example of this type of villain.) then you’ve got anarchist villains who are just in it for the lulz and figure there’s no real purpose to life, so they might as well enjoy themselves. all of these are valid villain personalities and motivations.

the problem with Overhaul is that he acts like a sociopath, and yet supposedly he’s doing all of this in order to somehow pay back his boss for his kindness. and that just doesn’t track. he has not demonstrated himself to be even remotely capable of empathy, so that level of loyalty from him feels forced and entirely unbelievable. I would have much preferred if instead he’d just gone full sociopath. maybe even have it turn out that he was making a power play all along and that he in fact was the one who caused the previous boss’s medical issues in order to seize power. that would have at least made sense with his level of evilness. but instead we have a guy who does shit without remorse that no one with even the barest hint of a functional empathy switch should be able to consider. his boss even tells him on multiple occasions, “hey that’s fucked up, don’t do that.” and he completely fucking ignores him, and we’re supposed to believe that in the end this is his way of trying to show his gratitude? there’s just no internal logic to it at all, and it makes me completely unable to take Overhaul seriously as a character, and so in the end he’s just annoying. 

the good: Kirishima

Kirishima is definitely a highlight of this arc. having sneaked up on everyone to become the surprise 5th most popular character, I guess Horikoshi took that as a sign that it was time to give him more development. and it’s such good development. it’s so unexpected to see middle school Kirishima -- brave, sturdy, loyal-to-a-fault Kirishima -- freezing up in the face of danger and panicking and not being able to do anything when others are in peril. and then we learn that he actually has massive self-esteem issues and has no real confidence in his own “boring” quirk, and despite his dream, he finds it difficult to see himself as worthy of being a hero. and yet he managed to overcome that and become the Kirishima we know today, who’s determined to become the manly hero he’s always wanted to be, even if he has to fake it till he makes it. it’s just good stuff, and it was great to see him get the spotlight.

the bad: Kirishima

lol. but having said that, I’m going to be real here: as much as I love him, there’s just no denying the fact that Kiri, when you get down to it, Only Does One Thing. he makes his body harder. that’s it. yes, it’s a very strong and powerful quirk, and he’s absolutely worthy of being in U.A. and will make a great hero one day for sure. but that said, one-on-one Kirishima fights are just not that interesting to watch. Horikoshi has yet to find a way to mix things up and do anything remotely surprising with his quirk. Kiri just makes himself as hard as possible and tries to hold out against whoever he’s fighting until he can either knock them out, or they tire themselves out, or he gets backup, or he loses. so I’ll go ahead and say this here: there was absolutely no fucking reason to give him two multi-chapter fights in this arc. it makes no sense. just combine the two. or at the very least shorten one of them if you absolutely must have him fight twice for whatever reason. but just. I don’t know why we had to sit through so many chapters of him just standing there getting hit by bad guys. jesus christ. and meanwhile neither Ochako or Tsuyu ended up seeing any onscreen action at all, which is fucking ridiculous. they’re both just as deserving of fight time as Kiri is, and Tsuyu in particular has never had her own one-on-one fight and it would have kicked ass. you can’t tell me it wouldn’t have. so yeah. this was definitely a misstep IMO.

the good: the overall dark mood of the arc

this arc was craaaaaaazy dark. like yikes!dark. guns. drugs. the fucking mob. child abuse. depression. anxiety. prophecies of death. lost powers. dead mentors. just, holy shit. it does what it set out to do, which IMO was to introduce the dark side of the hero world, and all the horrors that the job can lead to. this is what you guys are signing up for. this is the reality of what you’ll be facing at times. it’s brutal, but it sure is realistic.

the bad: apparently there is such a thing as too much angst

yeah. who knew? and look, okay, I fucking love angst. love it. but at some point it just gets to be too much. this isn’t fucking Breaking Bad. you’ve gotta throw us a bone here every so often. we need some humor sprinkled here and there, and the occasional moment of triumph and hope. you know it’s bad when somehow we end up having to rely on the villains for both of those things. and yet that’s what happened here, and Toga and Twice basically saved the arc when it was reaching its most frustrating point, and injected some much-needed life back into it.

and speaking of dark, while I was mostly speaking figuratively, I do also mean that quite literally as well. this arc was too dark. lesson learned: never set your 20-chapters-long climax in a fucking basement. chapter after chapter of drab gray settings. no background variation whatsoever. just, god. why would you fucking do that.

the good: girl power

I got so excited when I realized that for the first time ever, the arc was going to feature precisely two female and two male class 1-A students. a fucking 1:1 ratio. 50/50. and this was in addition to Hadou and Ryuukyuu (Ryuukyuu being the very first female top ten ranked hero we’d been introduced to). all in all I was fucking pumped.

the bad: ...but not really

so fucking go figure that right off the bat, they get attacked on the way in and ALL OF THE GIRL CHARACTERS STAY OUTSIDE while the guys go on to continue the arc. except for Bubble, but she gets left behind barely pages later. and then we don’t see any of the ladies again until the very fucking end. fucking travesty tbh. 

honestly, none of the girls has really gotten any spotlight action since Ochako fought Bakugou all the way back in the sports festival arc, and it’s getting tired at this point. this is probably one of the reasons why Toga has climbed so high on my favorite character list. because at least we still get to see her fighting, and it’s always entertaining. but I need more ladies kicking ass goddammit.

 anyways, this is getting quite long and my will to rant is waning, so I’ll just list the rest of the pros and cons I can think of real quick.

the good: Mirio (such a good boy); the quirk-be-gone and trigger drugs; Eri (who is so sweet and precious and I honestly love her quirk, even if it’s ridiculously overpowered. that’s why they gave it to a six-year-old lol. I don’t think we have to worry about it becoming too broken for a long time); the prophecy and all related angst; and of course, that ending which ripped my heart out and also made me cheer so hard when Overhaul got his comeuppance.

the bad: the basement (yes, I mentioned it before, but honestly it deserves another mention); Overhaul’s lack of an actual master plan (such a letdown, smdh); lack of all of our other faves for like 30 chapters. Bakugou. Todoroki. Momo. Kaminari. Mina. Iida. Sero. god but I missed them so, so much.

 final verdict: all in all, this was an excellent arc for world-building, and  it set up a few things which I think will have a lasting impact on the story (Nighteye’s premonition; Eri; the whole concept of internships; and last but not least Tomura getting hold of the quirk-erasing drug). it also gave us some decent character development on the heroes’ side, and some frankly excellent character development for nearly every last member of the League of Villains. I am very appreciative of that last in particular, and if I ever go back to reread any parts of the arc once I’m done with the recaps, it will probably be those chapters.

having said that, this arc marked the first time that the series, to me, has ever felt dragged-out and dull, and for multiple chapters in a row at that. I was seriously getting concerned at some points, because it felt nothing at all like the fast-paced series I’d grown accustomed to for the first 120 chapters, with most arcs being resolved in a dozen chapters or less, and moving right along to the next arc. I hate the feeling of having to force myself to read something, and that was the case for quite a few chapters in this arc, which sucks. and there was no reason for it, really. it was just bad writing.

probably the best example of this is coming up in just a few chapters in the recaps. I am referring to chapter 138, which is probably my least favorite chapter in the series to date. this chapter begins with the heroes gathered outside of Overhaul’s house getting ready to enter. it ends with the heroes still outside the fucking house, still having not entered. they literally spend an entire chapter, 19 full pages, trying to go inside a house. the pacing is abysmal. hardly anything interesting happens aside from that really big guy busting through the front gate, and Ryuukyuu turning into her dragon form to stop him. that’s basically it. it’s just boring as fuck. this chapter basically sums up all of the problems I have with this arc in one go.

was it an important arc for the story? yes. would I read it again? probably not, LoV antics aside. basically those are my feelings in a nutshell.

 anyways, I’m curious what everyone else’s thoughts are on this arc if anyone else feels like sharing! now that I’m finished with it, it’s a lot more fun to talk about. some things are just more enjoyable in hindsight, when you have finally moved on past them and can joke about them from a safe distance lol.