#and aegon is just being the aegon we love in our fanon

[arcielee]

Ahem... The discussion, though active, is very peaceful. You have quite different points of view, but you both listen to each other with interest and, even with some pleasure and pleasant surprise. You talk about rather banal things, you talk about well-known things, but you like it. You can talk bout anything. He tells you some new, interesting ideas. You recall old thoughts and facts. You, in principle, like to talk to your husband's younger brother. And it's completely mutual.

ModernAemond: "I can't say, that I agree with you, but I understand, why you think so. And, to be honest, I would have done exactly the same in your place."

Y/n: "no, you would have come up with something smarter, - soft laughter."

ModernAemond: "oh, please, you overestimate my mental abilities. - He smiled gently, kindly, - but thank you. I'm flattered. - You both nodded kindly to each other. There was no awkward silence, everyone gathered their thoughts."

Y/n: "it's just, that... You don't have to be tied to one place all your life. Country, city, home... If there is an opportunity to go somewhere, to move, then this is good, if desired, you need to move. Another question, is whether there are opportunities for this. - ModernAemond smiled a little sadly. - And you should, also remember, that there are no perfect places. There are no perfect countries, there are no perfect people. There is nothing fabulously perfect in our world. There are good and bad sides everywhere."

ModernAemond: "yes, I totally agree with you here. And there are difficult circumstances in life, because of which, if you act according to your conscience, you can't give up everything and go to live somewhere by the sea, for example. But, for my part, I will say, that... Um... - He frowned a little, - well, I think, that where you were born, where you grew up, that's where you should die. The place where you were born, you have to work for the good of this place. - You nodded your head, agreeing, that his words made sense. - And, on the other hand, once again, you are absolutely right, there are no ideal conditions, there are no ideal places. But, I think, some kind of attachment to your homeland, still has a place to be. The only place, out of all the countries, I've been to, that I really liked is *the name of the country, city*. It's a wonderful place, I really like it. But... I'm not sure, I could live there permanently. Grow old there, die there... - He shrugged his shoulders. - To spend a vacation there - yes, but to live... Like. Live. Don't know... I'm used to my Home."

Y/n: "well, it seems to me, that it's not about the "homeland" itself, but we are, most likely, getting used to the place. We value what we have in this place, we value those people, who surround us here, memories. I think, it's not about the piece of land itself, but about the feelings, that we endow this land with."

ModernAemond: "hmm... Maybe, you're right. I've never thought about it that way. But you can love this particular piece of land, even if you have bad memories."

Y/n: "yes, absolutely. But there is no paradise on our Earth."

ModernAegon: "Yes. We have to arrange this paradise for ourselves by ourselfs."

ModernAegon: "well, I'm not sure about the "pieces of land", - he puts his hand on your knee. - But my personal Paradise on our Earth very much exists... - You and modernAemond looked at him with interest. Smiling slyly, your husband smoothly moved his hand to the inside of your thigh, gradually and slowly bringing it closer to, what is between your thighs."

ModernAemond: with a disappointed face, he moved the eyepatch to the sighted eye, leaning back in his armchair.

Y/n: "... - Download completed. - Aegon!"

ModernAemond: "I hoped for a second, that he would tell me the exact location..."

ModernAegon: "ehehehhehehe."

I just love this. 💜

[ewanmitchellcrumbs]

How do you feel about aemond’s characterisation this season? I can’t make up my mind. everything we’ve seen of him this season seems to contradict what little we saw of him in season 1 (in s1 he gives the impression that he honours family and duty above all else, and his own ambition seems secondary to that). However, we haven’t seen any of that in his limited interactions with his family so far, and I just don’t 100% buy that he would betray aegon. Yes he probably does genuinely hate aegon, and we’ve seen how impulsive he can be, but I still don’t think he’d act on that impulse given what that would do the greens’ position in the war.

We got 11 minutes of him in season one, I think everything we felt we learned was our own projection and fanon takes taken too seriously.

I am not loving the deviation from the book, but I am enjoying the layers and depth being given to Aemond’s character, and I will enjoy the descent into war criminal behaviour. The foundations are already being laid. In truth, in four episodes we’ve been given as much screen time as we were for the three episodes of season one, so I am withholding my final judgement until I’ve seen all of season two.

To sum up, I have mixed feelings but am reserving forming any concrete opinions until I’ve seen more of him.

[finitefall]

It's so weird to see the show hell bent on making some random love story between rhaenyra and Alicent and it's so fucking badly written to the point it's completely meaningless and out of place . And Alicent stans dare to accuses us of homophobia and bigotry despite the fact many of us are part of LGBT community just because we don't like some fictional ship. And I'm actually worried that if HBO will make a show about Robert's Rebellion they would make a weird love story between rhaegar and robert , the whole reason of the rebellion because Robert felt betrayed when rhaegar chose lyanna over him lmao . One of the showrunners literally said that Alicent and rhaenyra tried to reach out to each other so they can be together again (that was a comment on the feast episode with Viserys family) Now this brings to the question , why we didn't see the same happening to Aegon and rhaenyra? If They could change characters’ ages and dynamics to make Rhaenyra and Alicent the same age and best friends, why we couldn’t get that much for the siblings who literally went to war against each other, and then that resulted at the end in one brutally murdering the other in front of her son? In the book both of rhaenyra and aegon dislike each other and unlike the show there is a relationship going on there even if it's not a good one. While in the show i don't know if they know that they are siblings at this point.

Because the book is a History book written by men, so it's very misogynistic to believe it according to Condal & Hess who are all about feminism and putting those two female characters victims of men at the heart of the show. So of course we saw Alicent and Rhaenyra trying to reach out to each other in episode 8. Aegon? Who cares, it's not about him, HOTD is the Alicent and Rhaenyra show!

Just don't try telling Greens stans and Rhaenicent shippers that the writers actually messed up the characters so badly that the writing is sexist, because they truly believe in the same screwed up definition of feminism than the writers.

Yep, if you don't like their queerbait ship, you're homophobic. Look, I've had f/f and m/m fanon ships and I didn't say crap about the canon m/f ship (which is Daemon and Rhaenyra here). I wouldn't mind people having Rhaenicent as a fanon ship: my problem is with the writers trying to push it down our throats and Rhaenicent shippers insisting it's canon. And as you say, even people who aren't straight are accused of being homophobic because they ship Daemyra instead of Rhaenicent. I had an anon insulting me here about this, there were so many things that were wrong in this message.

[peachysunrize]

I'll never understand why a good chunk of green fandom is so staunchly anti helaemond. Like, i get it, they are mostly Aegon fans, but still, it's obvious he doesn't care about Helaena in a romantic way, not to mention his constant infidelity and opinion about her. Moreover, their main argument is that it would somehow make the greens look like hypocrites. I mean, hello? The showrunners have already done that, with Alicent, Criston, hell, the whole green council. How would Helaemond make it any worse? Imo, it would actually be a great opportunity to give more scenes to both Helaena and Aemond since they are being heavily ignored so far, maybe even to humanize Aemond since he's apparently a baby eating monster this season, according to everyone. I'm not fooling myself coz I'm aware we most likely won't get a romantic Helaemond (I guess I'll have fics and headcanons for it), but at least I want to see them interact, to learn something more about these characters, maybe they could have Helaena be Aemond's confidant and advisor during his regency... It's not too much to ask, I think. However, some greenies refuse even this because it would somehow be disrespectful to Aegon?? I just don't get it. The fact is that Aemond and Helaena had great unspoken chemistry during their brief scenes in s1, and now they could expand on their relationship, romantic or not, and TG would only benefit from it.

Anyway, I would love to hear your opinion on this.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!!!

I’m not a huge fan of helaemond myself not because I think they have no chemistry but because I think their canon relationships separately are more interesting than helaemond.

But!!!!! I totally agree that we would benefit from those scenes, especially if they are heavily weighted towards dialogues and plot lines, not just like the brief useless scene we got in the throne room with one sentence! I need them to interact, I need Helaena to be mad at Aemond for the death of Jaehaerys but again Hess wrote Helaena in a way that even she as jaehaerys’ mother should not mourn him cause common born babies die all the time💀

The thing is that good writing can change everything!!! Even if we get another fanon ship from this fanfiction Condal & Co are giving us, I hope we get at least a good written one! Helaemond isn’t a ship to be treated lightly like Alicole! This is the queen and the prince regent we’re talking about so them having a thing together could either benefit TG greatly or make them even more of a hypocrite.

All in all, fanfics exist for this reason to have fun and read what you’d like! We shouldn’t really have our hopes high about the scenes helaemond will have:(

[shipcestuous]

Oh lol, that ask about hypocritical Daemyra shippers hit so hard, I couldn't help but cringe/laugh in sympathy. I'm so sorry if that happened in a fanspace you frequent, anon!! But it really reminded me of one of the reasons I don't interact much with HOTD fandom besides besides reblogging art and memes and discussing the show with a friend.

See, I like a lot of different ship in HOTD, and you'd be hard-pressed to find any I actually dislike even if I am indifferent to some. So it's especially weird to me when shipwars between Aemond/Alys and Aemond/Helaena fans turn from "Our ships is canon in the books!" "Well, our ship might still be canon in the show!" to declaring that Aemond/Alys would necessarily HAVE to be depicted as abusive on one side and bashing the brosis shippers as degenerate freaks for daring to ship incest in a show where the main canon ship is uncle/nice on the other. And then I've also seen at least a couple of Aemond/Alys fans take that even further by preemptively worrying that the greedy, nasty incest shippers will take their ship and make it all about Oedipal onesided Aemond/Alicent undertones... which, as much as I love both ships between troubled younger men and witchy older women AND momson ships, and as much as I am that rare breed of shipper who enjoys multiple interesting ships being connected together by one of the characters involved having a type or unrequieted feelings or other stuff like that, I could actually sympathize with because having fanworks and discussions for your ships overtaken by another ship you don't even like does suck. But again, why the weird focus on the incest angle in the show where THE MAIN CANON SHIP is uncle/niece?! XD

And that's not even mentioning the hate I've seen other people spew about, again, Aemond/Alicent AND Aegon/Alicent. "Something something why take genuinely fascinating parent/child relationships and "warp" them into incest," as I'm sure you can imagine. ... it actually reminds me of people crying out in outrage over slash ships, or even some friends-to-lovers het ships with dynamics that go beyond typical Hollywood ideas of romance. The assumption that adding a romantic or sexual element, even just in fanon rather than canon, will necessarily "ruin" a well-written, interesting relationship - rather than allow fans to explore it in new contexts and settings, appreciating its complexity and nuances while looking at them in a different light and through different means.

And then there's all the Modern AU Daemyra fics where they're not related... which may of course be entirely motivated by a simple wish to explore the dynamic between Daemon and Rhaenyra without the burden of legacy and the mess of family drama weighing on them, just enjoying their passion without additional complications. But it does make me chuckle in a vaguely exasperated way giving everything else...

Sorry for the rant. I'm not really mad about it, as I'm used to doing my things in my own little corner of fandom, but sometimes it does make me want to ask those people "you DO realize we are all watching the same Dragon Family Incest Show, RIGHT?!" XD

[x]

I hate to see fandom bringing out the worst in people when, in theory, it's not impossible for us all to just be having fun and enjoying our show. In theory, in a perfect world, we could all just ship and let ship.

What I really wish some people on tumblr would learn is just how to keep their mouth shut. Some thoughts you can just keep to yourself. Maybe the world would be a better place if you didn't say the thing. A lot of the hate I see just snowballs. One Aemond/Alys shipper says something negative about Helaemond, a Helaemond shipper remarks on it - this is just an example - then that remark gets traction, leading to someone saying something negative about Aemon and Alys, and now all of the sudden both ships are under attack and there's a ship war. If Person A had just not made that post, if Person B had just ignored what Person A had said, it might not have gotten ugly on such a big scale. Never underestimate the power of just ignoring.

And of course when you've got incest ships in the mix, the other side is going to come out in full force to condemn it. That might work in other fandoms, but this is ASOIAF, and this is the incest show. The incest shippers are not crazy.

The assumption that adding a romantic or sexual element, even just in fanon rather than canon, will necessarily "ruin" a well-written, interesting relationship - rather than allow fans to explore it in new contexts and settings, appreciating its complexity and nuances while looking at them in a different light and through different means.

THIS.

Like shipping something romantically is some eraser that comes along and erases everything that's unique and interesting about a relationship. Um, no.

It creates new layers!

Modern unrelated AU:

[jackoshadows]

I don't know why is so hard for neutrals to just let us enjoy things. I don't mind letting them enjoy things, it's just that they get mad that we like the key five characters and want to make content for them. Why can't we have events and such? Nobody is saying they can't enjoy their faves. Is just so petty and mean.

Its a form of fandom elitism wherein they hold that their enjoyment and understanding of the material is higher than that of us lesser plebs because they 'analyze' how GRRM is borrowing from 'Heart of Darkness' 🤣🤣 while we are simply enjoying gifsets of our favorite characters.

What got me was the same person who said that they were sick of Jon and Arya - because of one day of Jon & Arya content - and how people didn't really understand that Arya's story was not about Jon, then went on to make some nonsensical comparison of Quentyn's journey to heart of darkness 🤣🤣 because only they understand the themes of these books you see? And by the way, who was saying that Arya's story was fully about Jon? These are the kind of strawman arguments these people make to depict other fans as less than them. Jon is an important part of Arya's story, but no one was saying that he's the only part of her story. It's Jon month, we were celebrating this aspect of Jon's story, not reducing Arya to Jon.

But this is typical of these people and their strawman arguments.

If we highlight that Arya is canonically pretty the strawman argument is why are people reducing Arya to her appearance, that is not important and those who did this are pedophiles sexualizing her. If we highlight Arya's relationship with Jon, the strawman argument is that we are making Arya's story to be all about Jon when she's an important character in her own right and has other things to do.

It's like we have to always choose for Arya. And we only have to choose their version of the story.

And secondly notice how none of their ire is for any Sansa content - which is like 50% of what fandom produces on places like Tumblr. Sansa has the most fanon stuff that I have seen for any character in ASoIaF. Fanon Sansa is almost unrecognizable from the book version and we don't get any of these people lecturing the plebs about how they are wrong about Sansa. The target of these people are always, always Jon, Arya and Dany stans.

On any given day, the Arya and Jon tags would have so much Sansa content. There would be like fifty different versions of 'The same blood runs through you blah blah' and 'It would be so sweet to see him again', there's so much fanart, there's so much fanon stuff for Sansa - and these people have no complaints about any of that. They reblog, they enjoy, they comment. So they don't even have a problem with main characters per se. It's only Jon, Dany and Arya that triggers them something awful.

Sansa is a very popular character, which granted she's the type of character tumblr and reddit dudebros love. But that's what highlights fandom hypocrisy and double standards. We get a month for actual book Jon Snow and his canon relationships and story arc and there's so much outrage about it - why are we clogging the tags, why are we making Arya's story to be about Jon, hosting 'Sun Dragon' week and giving Aegon Jon's story, hosting Sansa month the same time as Arya month and then they have the gall to act as if they are above drama and fandom wank after being this pissy and entitled.

ASoIaF fandom is unfortunately trash. And I am not sure how much longer I am going to be sticking around when there's no new content and it's just assholes creating drama every other day.

[aerltarg]

Maybe this is a stupid question, buuuuut:

I just can't imagine a world that Rhaegar comes back from the Trident, wins the war and becomes king. No, I'm not a anti Rhaegar, matter of fact I like him very much, I'm just can imagine how would Lya, little Jon, this whole affair, would settle in the capital. The norm that fics (at least those I read) tend to follow is to make Rhaegar:

1. A douche, paranoid and destiny-obessed king.

2. Completely incompetent, aloof monarch, that deep down has a heart of gold, but can't really be understood.

I mean, isn't he supposed to be a scholar since he was a kid? What's are your thoughts about it?

oh, yeah, i can totally understand this! it's is the whole point in canon actually, "the wrong man came back from the trident". you would expect a hero win against his antagonist and have a happy ending w his lady love but it doesn't happen. instead the subversion happens to them with rhaegar being killed by robert who becomes obviously a shitty king and lyanna dying after him. they were never supposed to have happy ending, they were created as tragic and doomed and dead from the beginning for the whole plot to start, jon to have his parentage mystery and dany to take the passed baton as the last dragon, prophesied savoir and the heir who has to carry entire house on her back now.

as for the realistic rhaegar wins aus that's the difficult question. tbh we just don't know enough abt their situation, plans and wishes. you see, e.g. in agot we can be right in ned's head and see his motivations, what he was thinking abt, what he was planning, what he was hoping to do. but if his story was told the way rhaegar's was i bet he would have his own crowd of haters and ~intellectuals~ jumping out every two seconds w their "hot takes" how actually all hints abt what rlly happened (ned being a good man w his own sense of honour, justice and experiences affecting him and the deal w cersei's children) doesn't matter and he was an ambitious prick, planned to grasp the power by being joffrey's regent and make his daughter sansa queen. (you can actually insert there any bullshit and still don't reach the level of stupidity of such "hot takes" this fandom loves so much lmao). also he would be blamed to the hell and beyond for being too stupid and not foreseeing the future and actions of other ppl bc ofc after everything happened it's so easy to say what was so obvious to notice. also they would say that the deaths of his men and horrible fates of his kids are 100% his fault and even straight up say he killed them lmao. i can rant abt it for hours so yeah. this is a situation w too many unknown variables bc it depends too much on actions of too many characters we don't know enough abt. the only thing it's possible to tell for sure is the fact that there couldn't be any perfect solutions since things got too complicated at this point.

such fics as you've mentioned tho are just a part of this dumb fanon where rhaegar is "too prophecy obsessed"/"incapable of love"/shrodinger's rhaegar both smart and stupid at the same time/whatever/all of this combined lmfao. the man was notably intelligent from the early age as you've absolutely rightly mentioned, his guesses abt himself being tptwp have nothing to do w egocentrism as some parts of the fandom would want us all to believe unless he wouldn't be so reasonable abt it and later on, after so many years, wouldn't have changed his mind and thought his son could be tptwp.

and literally fuck all antis that think you shouldn't consider prophecies that hold real power in this fantasy world lol. you know, aegon the conqueror was said to be motivated (or at least partly) to unify westeros by the prophecy and still got the treatment of perfect/maximum close to perfect figure of a leader everyone should look up to from the narrative and grrm. prophecy obsessed much, huh? i don't even talk abt all these parallels between him and rhaegar grrm put there not for bitches to ignore them completely! and i will never get tired of reminding that dismissing prophecies is UNWISE for targaryens of all people. the house whose story is built on the dream of young daenys and her father aenar that listened to her despite common sense (or what local "anti magic"/"anti prophecies" clowns consider to be common sense). targs would be as dead as the rest of dragonlords if not for daenys the dreamer. who else in the world has as many reasons to take prophecies seriously as them?

yet antis out there act as if rhaegar is one dimensional weirdo whose every character trait is abt mf ~prophecy obsession~. like how can they miss one of the main points so badly?? the game of thrones distracts ppl from the real danger beyond the wall, yk, the one rhaegar was aware of and meant to deal with. there wouldn't be such a problem if he became king and had as many years of head start before ice zombies apocalypse as ignorant bobby b did. rhaegar had to die just for westeros to sink in shit and our main heroes to save everyone to make this story more epic LMAO

so yeah, too many ppl portray rhaegar as this one dimensional robotic creature without any knowledge of what feelings are idk even for what reason. it seems these ppl can't read for real bc rhaegar was not only intelligent af as well as dutiful ("it seems i must be a warrior" but "he loved his harp more than his lance") but also. ugh emotional?? my boy had constant emo sessions w brooding at ruins of summerhall, sleeping out there beneath the stars all alone and writing songs that made all women cry. does it sound as someone who "isn't capable of love" lol? folks act as if he was completely heartless from the day he was born (bc he didnt play w other kids ig??) but in reality their emotional range is less than the one of a spoon in comparison to rhaegar's lol. i'm not even gonna address the horrible attitude of demonizing him for his implied depression, vile clowns never listen to themselves when they talk abt targaryens and their "madness".

tldr; these fics are mostly lame af and suck at characterization if they're making rhaegar like that lol. anyway his character isn't abt being a good or a bad king, it's abt being a would-be-king for characters in books and readers in reality to sigh over his tragic aura and pretty aesthetic abt how it could've been. however, grrm clearly doesn't write rhaegar as evil or incapable as some parts of the fandom would want to try to persuade others. realistically speaking in the scenario where he wins there couldn't be any perfect decisions but it's a territory of speculations on thin air and lit nothing more since canon doesn't provide us with enough information to rlly theorize anything instead of building biased headcanons some ppl call "analysis".

but remember what barristan said about rhaegar while practically watching him all his life, from a literal baby to the man grown:

“I know little of Rhaegar. Only the tales Viserys told, and he was a little boy when our brother died. What was he truly like?”

The old man considered a moment. “Able. That above all. Determined, deliberate, dutiful, single-minded.” (ASOS, Daenerys I)

“Prince Rhaegar’s prowess was unquestioned, but he seldom entered the lists. He never loved the song of swords the way that Robert did, or Jaime Lannister. It was something he had to do, a task the world had set him. He did it well, for he did everything well. That was his nature. But he took no joy in it. Men said that he loved his harp much better than his lance.” (ASOS, Daenerys IV)

[nymerias-heart]

Firstly, the parallels between Arya/Lyanna are canon. They are not based on assumptions or theories of who Lyanna was. Ned tells Arya that she reminds him of Lyanna and that she looks like her. Harwin tells Arya she rides a horse as good as her aunt did. Bran sees a young Lyanna and immediately thinks it's Arya, the reason he concludes he isn't looking at Arya is because if the girl was Arya then the boy would have had to be him but he didn't wear his hair that long and Arya didn't beat him with swords the way this girl was beating the boy. So, Bran seen a young Lyanna and wasn't able to tell the difference between her and Arya. So, when speaking about looks, Arya IS Lyanna reborn. George wrote this. This is Canon. If George wanted sansa to have parallels with Lyanna then he would have written them. If he wanted Sansa to be Lyanna reborn, then he would have written it, he would have written characters comparing the two but he didn't. Sansa is compared to Catelyn not Lyanna. So it isn't that you can give Arya stans the parallels. The parallels ARE about Lyanna and Arya and no amount of twisting will make them about sansa. So, no, you can't give to us what already belonged to our fav.

"I was however trying to point out that you're not convincing anyone with your 'sansa has her own parallels with this raging lunatic who tried to kill her' routine" - - - - - I'm not trying to convince anyone. Sansa has parallels to Lysa. That is Canon. It's not me hating on sansa or making anything up. Her having parallels with lysa doesn't make sansa a 'raging lunatic'.

No one was comparing Sansa to Lysa, I was saying that sansa and lysa have parallels, not that they are the same person. But comparing their parallels to the parallels between Arya and Lyanna is the same. Why?. Because we are not changing who a character is to fit our parallels. It is the way the characters were written by George. Lysa and Sansa have parallels and that is not hate or saying that sansa will go crazy or shit. Or saying that Arya will marry a targaryen in secret and runaway to dorne. What we are doing is pointing out the similarities between characters but this does not mean they will have the Same fate or be the same person. What I think you meant is that we are comparing Arya to someone good while comparing Sansa to someone bad. But this isn't me making things up, it's the way George wrote the characters. And since when is Lyanna the most adored character?? Anyways, sansa can and does have parallels with other good characters but just not Lyanna. Or at the least not as many 'parallels' as stansas make their out to be. The ones you do have, just like in the op, are based on a Fanon Lyanna and not the one that is shown in the books.

Arya did flee from Kingslanding just like Lysa and Sansa did but in a much different way. Arya fled the red keep all on her own and no-one knew what happened to her. Then Yoren found her and cut off her hair and she left Kingslanding disguised as Arry the orphan boy. In comparison Lysa left with her son sweet Robin and obviously some small retinue. Though it's not mentioned in the books, she would have had to have been accompanied by someone because like HOW?? would she get to the Vale on her own. Sansa got notes from someone to meet her in the gods wood. Can't remember the name of the drunk Knight who helped her get out, but anyways someone helped her out of the castle and city and brought her to a ship where littlefinger was waiting for her, littlefinger who planned her escape. You could argue that syrio helped Arya escape but it's not the same because he wasn't there with her when she was escaping you could compare to the show when septa mordane tried to give sansa a head start. So Arya's escape was very much different. Not only was her escape different but also the place she escaped to. Arya went to the riverlands while Sansa and lysa went to the Vale.

It's not about who is superior to who. It's about who is who's foil. George said the initial reason for making sansa was because the starks were too good and he needed someone to cause strife within the family. Sansa was written as a foil to Arya. A foil doesn't mean being better, it means being there to draw an direct comparison to another character. From Aryas first chapter we can see that sansa is her foil.

Obviously, Arya wouldn't become the lady of the Vale, she has nothing to do with that plot line but sansa does. It's sansa who may or may not end up married to Harry the heir, not Arya. It's sansa who is in the Vale, not Arya. It's sansa who has parallels to Lysa, not Arya.

I agree that having parallels doesn't equal to having the same fate or becoming the same person. But don't twist Canon so you can make parallels where there aren't any, just like in the op with sansa/Lyanna. It's one thing to point out what is in the books and another to try and twist the books to suit your fanon.

I agree, any character can have parallels with another. But those sansa/Lyanna parallels weren't true to Lyannas character and were just something the op made up.

No one is going to be another character come again. But it is Canon that Young Lyanna and Arya look almost identical. So my point was if one of the two sisters was to be Lyanna reborn it physically could not be sansa. Once again obviously Arya is not Lyanna reborn she is so much more than Lyanna could ever be. Arya is a faceless assasin in Bravoos. That alone tells us that the two are not the same. But there are still many parallels between them. For example if you believe the jaqen=aegon theory then you have another parallel with a targaryen prince and a star girl in harrenhal.

I did not respond to the post because it said one character was another reborn. I responded to it because the 'parallels' they used were made up and were in no way true to who Lyanna was, a GNC woman. Guess what, GNC women can also be loved, turns out you do not have to be gentle and t

Courteous and ladylike for someone to see you as attractive.

It is Canon that lyanna/Arya have parallels. So when a stansa comes out and twists Lyannas entire character to fit the parallels, then that is stealing from Arya because it is arya who parallels with Lyanna not sansa. If you want to know, it is not the first thing that a stansa would have stolen from Aryas storyline. So yes it annoys us, because if you guys actually liked sansa why would you constantly steal storylines and aspects from other characters like Arya or Dany. The op who made that sansa/Lyanna post also made posts in which they plastered sansas face over Arya's and had Jon give her needle. Stansas do steal and it gets really annoying.

By the way I didn't say stansas were stealing Lyanna, I said they were stealing the parallels which you were. If the parallels were actually based on Canon, I wouldn't have said anything. But Lyannas entire character had to be twisted to fit those parallels.

The sansa is Lysa reborn was me using the op's logic to prove a point.

George wrote these books, he created these characters, he wrote the characters the way they are. The parallels between arya/Lyanna and sansa/Lysa were made by him.

[viciousgracearc]

LYANNA STARK IS A WARG & A GREEN SEER

I would like to preface this headcanon by saying that this is borne out of my own imagination + analysis of the text + hours of conversation with @luxfurem. There’s a very high possibility that I’m completely off the mark here and of course, you don’t have to agree with me on this headcanon specifically. But as far as this interpretation is concerned, I’M ADAPTING THIS HEADCANON IN ALL OF LYANNA’S MAIN VERSES.

THINGS TO KEEP IN MIND BEFORE READING FURTHER (based off of my PREVIOUS HEADCANON):

LYANNA IS THE KNIGHT OF THE LAUGHING TREE. I think this is as good as canon at this point.

RHAEGAR FOUND OUT THAT LYANNA WAS THE KNIGHT OF THE LAUGHING TREE. As a sort of acknowledgment, he crowned her The Queen of Love and Beauty by the end of the tourney at Harrenhal. It doesn’t go any deeper than that (a.k.a. they’re not secretly in-love, sorry).

THE MAD KING ALSO FOUND OUT AND ORDERED FOR LYANNA’S ARREST. I’ve written extensively about this in the headcanon linked above, but pretty much the mad king was triggered by the KOTLT and couldn’t let shit go.

ADDITIONALLY, CONTRARY TO FANON:

LYANNA DID NOT RUN AWAY WITH RHAEGAR TO ESCAPE THE BETROTHAL WITH ROBERT. While I don’t think Lyanna was the most eager to be married to Robert Baratheon (or to be married at all ), I also don’t think she ran away with Rhaegar to escape her betrothal. She could have run away, point blank period. But with a married prince? I don’t think so. (Considering too, that Lyanna’s initial reservation against Robert was his inability to keep to one bed. Based off of that alone, I don’t think Lyanna would willingly participate in infidelity of any kind. In this separate essay I will –)

LYANNA WAS DUTIFUL to a certain degree, but not in the same way as Brandon could have been or Eddard was. Lyanna’s upbringing was focused on being a proper lady who would marry a highborn lord someday, so she can pop off male heirs. She won’t inherit Winterfell, unlike Brandon, and she’s not even next in line unlike Ned. The expectations of her were quite different compared to the expectations of her brothers, thus, she wasn’t as committed as they were to the idea of duty, or at least not in the same way. That being said, she still held her family’s honor to great esteem and she went out of her way to defend and uphold that honor.

LYANNA WAS NOT SELFISH. I see this around a lot and it’s the most mind-boggling of all. This was the girl who, at 14 years old, was ready to throw down against three grown squires to defend the honor of her father’s bannerman. She later fought in a tourney and won, and asked the lords that the squires served to teach them manners. If she would go that far to defend a sworn bannerman to House Stark, who was not just being bullied but also discriminated upon because of his culture, then I’m pretty certain she’s the type to stand up to injustice without regard for herself. In that similar vein, I don’t think she would besmirch her family’s honor on a whim, knowing how seriously she took the meaning of that honor as made clear by her defense of Howland Reed.

Now that we’ve gotten all of those out of the way, it’s time to dive in into the void.

As is already previously established by canon, ALL STARK CHILDREN ARE WARGS. I know this mostly pertains to the six children of Eddard and Catelyn Stark, but there’s literally no reason why it could not extend to the generation of Starks that came before them. Brandon and Lyanna for example, possess the legendary “wolf-blood” of the Starks of old, and thus are tied very closely to the Stark mythos of being descended from the First Men. According to AWOIAF, “Greenseers had the greensight and were wargs as well.” While not all wargs are greenseers, we have evidence in Bran that the greensight is definitely alive and well in the Stark line (and in the North, as evidenced by Jojen Reed, a crannogman, and Brynden Rivers a.k.a. Bloodraven, whose mother was a Blackwood).

Following this logic, I don’t think it’s far-fetched at all to say that Lyanna might have been a green seer (and a warg). The ability in Bran was triggered by his fall, whereas it almost came too easily and too naturally to Rickon. Rickon and Bran shared the same dream about Ned’s death (which they predicted even before Maester Luwin made the announcement), and Rickon also knew when Catelyn and Robb left that they would never see them again.

In Lyanna’s case, I don’t think she knew what she was (I don’t think the Starks ever realized how closely they were tied to what’s left of magic in the world). She knew she was said to have the wolf-blood, which she thought had something to do with her temperament (a trait she shared with Brandon). By all accounts, Lyanna was wild and brave; she thrived off of independence and did not do well with restrictions. She rode horses “like she was half a horse herself” according to Roose Bolton, and maybe that’s because she understood horses like no ordinary human could?

I’ve already headcanoned that my Lyanna is a warg, so I’m going to take it a step further and say that she’s a green seer as well. No, she’s not as good at it as Bran, mainly because it was not a talent she cared to develop. But this ability ties her up with Rhaegar, who we know to be prophecy-obsessed. This even ties her up with with the Ghost of High Heart, who Rhaegar sought out time and time again just to hear her foretell the future, no matter how disjointed these predictions were.

So my theory essentially is that Lyanna had a run in with a wildling (most likely raiders caught by Rickard’s men) and before this wildling was executed, they told Lyanna something about the same prophecy that consumed Rhaegar to the end of his days. I imagine it had something to do with blue roses and blood, which are the images / symbols closely associated with Lyanna. I also imagine it mentioned the same fire and ice prophecy that Rhaegar so determinedly chased throughout his short life. In addition, I also think that on the way home from Harrenhall, Lyanna contracted a fever which triggered her green dreams. This drove home the urgency of the prophecy and you could even say, it gave Lyanna clues — about what she should do and where she should go to play her part in it.

In my FIRST HEADCANON, I speculated that Rhaegar (a good year after Harrenhal) went to rescue Lyanna in the Riverlands from his father’s men (who found out she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree), but I also think that for some reason they were fated to cross each other’s path, and they knew it, because by this point both of them were aware of the prophecy (by virtue of each of them being in contact with green seers, by virtue of Lyanna being a green seer herself albeit an untrained and unskilled one). But before any plans were set in motion, they visited the Ghost of High Heart to confirm the prophecy, and only then did they decide that yes, for mankind, we will fulfill our roles in this prophecy TOGETHER.

Worth noting: At some point, Lyanna realized that the prophecy, to come into fruition, would have to mean her death (blue roses and blood). But after everything she’d seen through her green dreams and after what she’d been told by the wildling green seer, by Rhaegar, and by the Ghost of High Heart, she determined that this cause — saving the world — was worth losing her life over.

Something you have to understand about Lyanna Stark: she wanted to be more than just someone’s betrothed, someone’s wife, someone’s mother. This prophecy — to a young, idealistic, romantic, wild, and by all accounts, good girl — was almost irresistible. This was something bigger than herself; she had a real chance to do something here, to be both the maiden AND the hero in a tale where she saves the realm from an ominous threat (and wasn’t Lyanna like Sansa in this way? In love with stories of maidens and heroes?). The KOTLT incident showed us that Lyanna had a strong sense of morality, and also a penchant for risky yet grand gestures of bravery. Saving the world was the kind of thing that she would not even think twice of doing, no matter the cost to herself.

Things Lyanna did not foresee: Brandon’s reaction to the news that she was missing and Brandon’s fast assumption that it was Rhaegar who took her. AT MOST, LYANNA EXPECTED THEY WOULD NOTICE HER ABSENCE AND WOULD ASSUME SHE RAN AWAY FROM HER BETROTHAL, BUT FOR HER BROTHER TO ACCUSE THE CROWN PRINCE AND STORM THE CAPITAL WHILE DOING SO… DID NOT OCCUR TO HER. Also, IMPORTANT: Lyanna and Rhaegar had no idea about Rickard and Brandon’s death until after the Battle of the Bells, when Gerold Hightower finally found them in TOJ and asked Rhaegar to return to King’s Landing. By this time, Lyanna was already pregnant.

Whether or not Rhaegar and Lyanna were right about the prophecy doesn’t really matter here. They could be completely wrong. Dany could be the TPWWP and not Jon. Heck, it could be Aegon (who really isn’t Aegon, LBR). Basically, this was just how they interpreted the prophecy, and they both paid in blood for it. Since they’re both alive in mine and Bubbles’ main timeline verses, the blood is of their loved ones, which was infinitely worse for both of them than if it were their own blood.

Is this a ship now? Well, no. At least not during TOJ, and heck, not many years after that. Lyanna was miserable in that tower and I can’t imagine Rhaegar was all too happy either. They’re doing what they thought they had to do, and Lyanna was going into it thinking she would die. All things considered, that might have been her preferred outcome, now that she knew just how much blood she had to pay to assume the role that would make the prophecy come true. The only real consolation in the aftermath was Ned’s forgiveness and the fact that Jon was kept alive because her brother loved her enough to give up his honor for her. But even then, it was a bitter consolation, and Lyanna would spend all her life trying to make up for her mistakes.