#and even then so many of the symptoms for childhood autism were there too and i'm sure they overlapped with adhd

[victorckk]

Advice for my fellow folks that are considering getting an autism/ADHD diagnosis whenever possible / self diagnosers who want to track their potential symptoms for whenever needed :

MAKE A GOOGLE DOC !!!

Put down any and all symptoms that you’ve noticed, that other people have noticed, etc.

Put down any childhood memories that could potentially have been symptoms, but were overlooked for whatever reason.

Color code that shit in any way you want. I personally color code by How Bad Said Thing Fucked Me Up -> How Bad Said Thing Caused Me To Mask Even More and so on.

Also add notes to different categories that you think might need some explaining (this could just be me overthinking things 9999 times worse than what I already do but it’s worth a shot). Highlight those things so they stand out from the questions.

Copy and paste Autism / ADHD assessment questions with the checkbox format and check off each one that fits you.

Put down how many you got out of total for each category.

Separate the pasted questions by Autism, ADHD, etc.

This way, you have proof that you can show your doctor, therapist, etc.

It also helps you understand yourself better along the way, and can also help you realize that a lot of things that you thought were normal kid things actually weren’t.

A few examples from my own Google Doc below (that took HOURS to make look less atrocious and clunky)

Feel free to make yours however you want, though!!! It’s entirely up to you as it’s YOUR Google Doc which also counts as a space just for you.

I just have a tendency to organize things in a way that aren’t messy or over decorated because it’s too much on my brain and eyes

Created this post to distract myself from a massive migraine that’s been torturing me for the past few days,, ghggghdbfbfbsgdvfbfbfb

[kanatashinkaifr]

going to talk abt obey me and how they are all extremely neurodivergent!!! gonna go through my thoughts on each characters who stands out to me in one way or another.

Lucifer- he has NPD. dont even try to argue with me about this. from the way he holds himself to an extremely high standard to how hes LITERALLY the avatar of pride, hes just a total narc and I love him dearly. I also consider him to be autistic. half bcuz he shows some signs half bcuz I'm autistic and love projecting onto characters. I think that the way he is so strict and finds being on time so important is extremely autistic of him. he follows a very specific routine, and if said routine is messed with, he is unapproachable for atleast the rest of the day. this is shown in likee late lesson 24 or early lesson 25 I forget. he also has issues with emotions. both showing and I think even identifying them. autistic man. ALSO ptsd. duh.

mammon: adhd. he has adhd. he doesnt have npd, HOWEVER, he totally shows symptoms. he acts like hes on top of the world but the second a minor inconvenience happens he is just. reduced to nothing. I also like the hc of him being dyslexic.

levi: AUTISM AUTISM AUTISM!!! yeah that ones obvious like extremely obvious. stg autism runs into the family or smth cuz it feels like mammon and asmo are the only allistics in that mf house. dont need to explain why Levi is autistic. its obvious. if you really need an explanation just ask. but I also think he has severe social anxiety. like to the point that he gets extremely sick at the thought of social interaction. over the years, and with lots of trial and error medication, he can sort of deal with it now. still freaks him out though.

Satan: I think he takes after his father. like. A LOT. he is so npd and so autistic. I think that he really prides himself on his smarts but like. if he were to fail/get an average mark on a test (especially if lucifer got a high mark) he would disintegrate out of pure self hatred. if lucifer is better than him in any academic topic, you can practically feel the envy and rage coming from him. lucifer understands how he feels, and always tries to help him with his npd issues, but that just upsets him tenfold. "you think that *I* need *YOUR* help??? disgusting!". he has such issues I love him so much. not much to comment on his autism. also quite obvious, especially in nightbringer.

Asmo- I KNOW SO MANY PEOPLE THINK ASMO HAS NPD AND LIKE I GET THE IDEA BUT NO. HE HAS HPD AND I WILL FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL OVER THAT HC.

beel: autism. binge eating disorder. ptsd.

belphie: autism. BPD!!!!! B!! P!!! D!!!!!!!! I will scream it from the roof tops THAT MAN HAD BPD IDC WHAT YOU SAY!! impulsivity (especially when angry), unstable relations (mostly hc), uncontrolled anger, chronic emptiness (hc), self destructiveness, fear of abandonment. you look into the DSM-5 and there is a picture of him there. I think that. he might have PTSD too.

diavolo: autism. I dont care what anyone says I think he is an autistic woman who was just forced into masking. c-ptsd due to mainly emotional neglect.

solomon: autism. no canon reason to support this I'm just projecting. c-ptsd. he has very complicated feeling surrounding loneliness and abandonment due to his childhood.

simeon: autism. C-PTSD!!!!!!! I think that. there wasnt nessacarily anything that could generally be considered traumatizing. but a lot of things in his early days were extremely stressful for him. I think that hes always questioned the word of God just a bit. he made sure nobody ever found out, but he always had doubt within him. this has always eaten at him, as he is supposed to be an angel. Angel's do not doubt the word of their father,, so, why does he?

ermm okay I think that's. enough ranting for today...

[helipackjack]

In honor of autism acceptance week, let's go over some canonically shown signs of Jack being autistic.

Special interest- robotics. He also has bursts of shorter term hyperfixations, such as his movie. He also fixates on Chase Young like a celebrity special interest.

Certain tasks considered complicated by many are easy for him, yet some tasks most others do with ease are hard for him. His way of thinking and logic deviates from the standard too.

He has trouble talking to people and expressing himself. He often fumbles over his words and has things come out the opposite of what he was trying to say. This often earns him a scolding or weird look.

Jack is canonically implied to practice his facial expressions and lines, almost like he has to manually do his expressions and perform for others, though rather than masking, he just puts on his evil persona. He also has stress induced facial tics

His monologing. He does this often, speaking to himself. It's a result of his loneliness, but I think this would have happened either way, just at a lesser scale.

He treats objects like they have feelings. Heck, he gave them feelings.

This is extrapolating a bit, but how easily he gets riled up, to the point of even having certain words set him off without fail. When Ashley says his parents and the party guests were calling him a weirdo, he has a violent reaction, shouting "What's so weird about me!?" I believe it's a result of repressed emotions regarding his earlier childhood, before he turned evil. Even if it was never said, he was definitely severely bullied at school, in part due to his autism, and he was called weird for just being himself and exhibiting autism symptoms, exhibiting behavior that to him, is normal and natural, just trying to go through life and maybe make friends. This being attacked just for existing caused being called weird to be sensitive topic to him, and convinced him that he'll never be good enough no matter how hard he tries to be good, so he turned to evil.

Now to more lighthearted stuff

Yippee!

The little small sounds he makes sometimes just because. Just his vocal stims in general.

This.

Season 3 made a brainless joke of him but this scene was so good. He was stimming here. Stimming for the sake of it cause it makes him happy. I relate to this so much.

The scene where Jack had the monkey staff for the first time and jumped around his lab, we all wanted to do that, bounce off the walls.

He loves charts and spreadsheets, to the point he went to update it first thing after seeing Mala Mala Jong.

Him sitting like this

And last, the pangolin collection

[my-autism-adhd-blog]

Hey, um, this feels like a silly question that I should have seen the answer on here somewhere for, but...

What is your opinion on self diagnosing autism?

I really want to seek a formal diagnosis because there are so many signs that I'm autistic; I've taken every single test you've linked on your blog with really high scores, I've realised a lot of common autistic experiences are things that I've had that I just thought I was insane for, and that having so many sensitivities when it comes to food and textures and smells and lights and things not always being exactly as I think they should be isn't just....a thing that I go through, by myself, that I can't get over because I'm not trying hard enough- that other people struggle with the same things all the time, but they have autism and that's something I could never even consider that I might have too until other people asked me because they thought I did.

I'm sorry for going on- all this is to say, I do want a formal diagnosis, but because I'm trans/autonomy is a concern if I were diagnosed, and because how hard it might be to even get one since I don't have anyone around from my childhood to attest to how I was when I was young, I don't know if it's even something I can or should do. At the very least, it would take years for me to get to a place where I could pursue it.

I've been agonizing and doing so much research over the past several months, and I'm so so sure, but I'm also really afraid of diagnosing myself with it, let alone communicating that to the people close to me. I don't want to be one of those yucky people who lie about having autism. All I want is to feel like it's okay to seek community with people who experience the world more similarly to me, and like I'm allowed to ask for resources and utilize things that I need to function better in day to day life without unrightfully claiming something that I might not actually have.

So, um, I just wondered, what do you think about self diagnosis, as someone with autism? Is it wrong to do it- is it wrong that I've even thought about it? I don't know what's okay at all, and I really feel terrible about even thinking I could.

Thank you for taking the time to read this even though I drabble on.

Hi there,

Im not a doctor or a professional, but I’m completely okay with self diagnose as long as you do the proper research. (Not looking things up on TikTok or anything like that. I know there’s some actual neurodivergent there trying to help, but I think it’s filled with so much misinformation than information.

I was diagnosed in 2009, but I I was diagnosed with Aspergers before it was changed into Autism Spectrum Disorder.

And it’s completely up to you if you want to a official diagnosis. Some people find it helpful, other not too much. If you want to try to get an official diagnosis, then you need to find a good psychiatrist/psychologist (I don’t know which one diagnoses disorders).

But that might be a but hard.

Sorry for rambling there. My main point is you can definitely diagnose yourself if you do correct resources and some symptoms that you think you have.

I hope this answer your question. Thank you for the inbox. I hope you have a wonderful day/night. ♥️

[thatone-churro]

okay. i know it’s a very bad idea to seek mental health advice from the internet, especially tumblr of all places, but i have a genuine question about this.

actually, before i get too far, i guess i should add some context about myself:

i’m fairly talkative in a certain sense. i like talking. if i start talking about something i like, or if i get excited while talking, i can talk a lot. when i’m alone, i tend to talk to myself a lot. just verbalizing thoughts, mostly; talking myself through a strategy, just voicing my thoughts as i play through a video game, or sometimes just babbling as though i’m talking to someone else. this is a frequent thing and not the root of my concern.

course, sometimes i talk a little less in public or in certain social situations if i’m not “invited” to speak too (more than just being spoken to first, but that’s another explanation i don’t want to go into right now), but i’ve always been like that; something, something, i know it’s more about social anxiety or something that i know i inherited and is a different discussion for a different day.

so, every now and then i have these days where, for lack of a better description, talking feels like it takes too much energy. even that doesn’t feel like it explains it properly but. like the same struggle to get out of bed on a rough day. like somehow speaking, the act of opening my mouth and forcing words out of my throat, takes too many spoons. the same way it feels like taking a shower or brushing your teeth has too many steps despite it being a simple process when your depression’s acting up (we’ll get back to this comparison in a minute).

i can tell when these days come on before i even have to speak to someone; it feels like my words are stuck in my throat. i mean that physically; there’s not actually something in my throat, but there’s a weight of some sort.

i’ve taken to calling these days “quiet days,” since this feeling affects just about everything associated with talking; making myself talk is a struggle; i can’t even talk to myself and all those monologues and discussions happen inside my head instead, but i can’t verbalize them; i don’t want people to talk to me on these days, as in there’s a deliberate, subconscious feeling already there on those days, not that i’m not wanting to talk because of the other feelings; actively listening to and comprehending things people say is also an effort to do, and i tend to tune out my music or whatever background noise i set for myself more than usual; i’ve recently discovered that this same feeling is applied to singing, much to my dismay, because i found this out on a day i kinda wanted to sing.

it’s not that i can’t speak on these days, i can physically make myself if i have to, it just takes more conscious effort sometimes than something like speaking should.

now, i used to chalk this up to being standard nonverbal bouts. i’d heard those were common among neurodivergents, and while i’m not officially diagnosed with anything (classic “everyone does that”/“that’s just something you got from me” type childhood), a lot of symptoms for both ADHD and autism (that i’ve heard of/looked into) match up pretty sharply with me.

however, no accounts from actually autistic people that i’ve read who go nonverbal at times really match up with my experiences. for me, it’s never a response to stress, anxiety, or overstimulation; it’s just something that happens on any given day and sometimes ebbs and flows throughout the day (as in sometimes it’s easier in some parts of the day, but not others, without any particular cue), and it’s never me going absolutely nonverbal, just a preference not to speak from it feeling like it’s too much to do sometimes.

remember that comparison i made to having to speak on “quiet days” feeling like trying to do basic things on bad depression days? yeah, i noticed on a day it hit that it felt very much like that, because i did feel it earlier that day; i found trying to make myself sing or even talk to myself out loud somehow felt like a process with too many steps and i didn’t have enough energy, just like trying to get out of bed that morning (to the point that i didn’t “get up” until that afternoon).

so, all that text and explanation leads to my one question: are these bouts and “quiet days” more from “going nonverbal” as a “symptom” of autism, or simply a symptom of my depression? or can it be chalked up to anything else at all? i’ve never seen or read anything about this on either side, and if it’s something from my depression, then that’s gonna make me take it much more seriously than i have been in the past. or like, is it just me and not anything at all?

any advice appreciated 🙏

[nobodysdaydreams]

Benedict Twins Neurodivergent Head Canons (by popular request)

At first I was going to make a post about all the MBS character's neurodivergencies, then I realized I had wayyyy too many for the twins alone.

Then I also realized that despite my efforts to try and separate them by diagnoses, a lot of their symptoms are the same thing in different fonts and with different diagnoses emphasized throughout the show. So here is everything I came up with.

(Warning: insanely long and unhinged post ahead. Feel free to disagree with any of these. Just don't be ableist please!).

My head canons for the twins:

ADHD-inattentive type - mostly Nicholas, possibly season 2 Nathaniel

Autism - mostly Nicholas, you could argue Nathaniel also has it

Anxiety/OCD symptoms - mostly Nathaniel in season 1, you could argue Nicholas has other forms of anxiety

BPD - mostly Nathaniel in season 2, you could argue Nicholas also has it

Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria (RSD) - Both twins have it, and I think Nathaniel also has CSD, and I will explain what that is

Maladaptive Daydreaming (MADD) - I don't know if both twins have it, but there are some scenes they were in the had the vibe going for sure

------------------------------

ADHD-inattentive type:

Nicholas' ADHD-I head canon mostly comes from personal experience (that's been my official diagnosis since childhood). Specifically, the way they wrote the show version of the character was way too relatable to me. The fact that there are so many books on his desk cluttered everywhere? Him dismissing the food Number Two tries to give him in that one scene even though he ordered it? The flashbacks of Nathaniel having to tell Nicholas to make sure his appearance looked good? Flashback Nicholas showing up late for the orphanage pageant? The general scatterbrain tendencies? Nicholas getting emotionally overwhelmed when he has too much to do or can't find a way out of a situation? I love the man, but thank goodness he has Rhonda and Number Two to do the executive functioning for him because if they didn't he would be in trouble. Those scenes were way too relatable, as were the scenes of him feeling guilty for being a burden to his friends family because they handle so much for him.

Since this head canon comes entirely from my own experiences, it's probably the easiest for me to write. I haven't done much with it in my fics yet because I've been focusing a bit more on the plot™️ and other characters, but when writing season 2 content, especially from Nicholas' perspective and how it changes after he's been given the happiness technique, I do intend to do a few things to incorporate this head canon into how I write his scenes.

It's also worth noting that while I see this head canon as mostly applying to Nicholas, Nathaniel does seem to have more ADHD-I symptoms in season 2. Season 1 he has a lot of anxiety (which I will talk about), but in season 2, he's a lot more quirky and scatterbrained and relaxed once his anxiety symptoms are decreased, and I could see ADHD being a head canon for him as well, it's just that his anxiety masks his executive dysfunction more than Nicholas' does. Of course, there are a lot of other possible reasons for Nathaniel's change in personality between seasons, and I'm gonna talk about those too.

-----------------------------

Autism:

Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD): So unlike the ADHD head canon, the autism head canon is one that I am not professionally diagnosed with, but I am familiar with it through irl friends that I've had that have been professionally diagnosed with autism. It's also worth noting that this is not really my own head canon or an unpopular one, other people in the fandom have mentioned this head canon before).

It's also a head canon that I think makes a lot of sense, especially in the show, they mention multiple times that Nicholas was at one point an academic, which could imply him having special interests and hyper fixations. During the flashbacks of him at the orphanage we really don't see him interact with anyone other than Nathaniel, which could be due to a number of factors, but could also suggest that maybe Nicholas struggled socially. This is support by the fact that when he rants at Nathaniel in 1x8, he says Nathaniel always tried "to control me [Nicholas], to control your friends", but Nicholas doesn't say our friends or my friends, and the only friends of his own mentioned from childhood are Nathaniel (who his says was his best friend), and Tommy Jacobs (who Nathaniel told him to stay away from and was implied to be a social outcast) suggesting that Nathaniel was the one building and maintaining the twin's social circle, though of course that's speculation.

I also previously talked about Nicholas being emotionally overwhelmed, and I know I connected that more to my own experience of ADHD-I symptoms, but I could see it being connected to experiences of autism as well, such as autistic burnout, autistic meltdowns, or sensory overload, I suppose it's open to interpretation especially if you head canon Nicholas as having both ADHD and Autism and consider all the ways that ADHD and Autism can coexist and interact within the same person.

It's also worth noting that Nathaniel is also seen misinterpreting social situations and struggling to connect with his peers both in flashback and in the show. In the flashbacks, he doesn't pick up the fact that the perspective parents don't like him or that people are displeased with his morning after performance. In the present, he has to basically twist Garrison's arm into a friendship and has so many weird and uncomfortable scenes where he tries to offer her "a chance to share the spotlight" and gives her champagne she can't drink where it looks like he's attempting to get her to genuinely like him but he just keeps missing the mark and getting more and more frustrated. I suppose you can also head canon this as ASD if you want since it is a pattern of social struggles that has followed him into adulthood (especially since Nicholas and Nathaniel are twins and would likely have similar symptoms), but it's also important to remember that Nathaniel is an antagonist, so I could understand where this head canon could also be taken negatively.

As for how I incorporate ASD head canons into my fic, since ASD is a disorder I have a lot of personal familiarity with, but am not diagnosed with myself, I try to write it in a way where I keep what's canon canon, I talk mostly about the symptoms I'm familiar with or have heard friends of mine describe (I mention Nicholas stimming as a child and struggling to understand social situations, getting very emotionally overwhelmed, etc.).

One thing I was mindful of, especially when writing my fic was that even though Nicholas (and SQ, who I'll talk more about in another post) having autism is a fairly popular head canon made mostly by autistic people, I still wanted to make sure that when I focused in or hinted at those symptoms that I did it well and did it respectfully.

For example, one problematic trope that can happen in autism representation is infantilizing or having them portrayed as sweet and innocent characters, but also characters without a lot of agency, and I did worry a bit about that when writing them from Nathaniel's point of view, and talking about things like him not trusting SQ to make his own decisions, and viewing Nicholas as incapable or incompetent. I really tried to make it super clear that this is how Curtain or other characters are viewing them at various points in time, but it's not necessarily how they actually are. So far I think that I've been able to make that clear, at least I haven't heard anyone say that my portrayal is problematic or bad, and I have gotten a lot of comments saying that I do a fairly good job of switching between the POVs of different characters and showing how certain things from one character's perspective are incorrect in another's. But again, while I have some personal experience with ASD, I don't have it myself, so I'm curious to know what people with ASD think about this head canon and whether it's an accurate and positive one, and if any of you guys think that it's a problematic head canon, or does more harm than good, please let me know.

-----------------------------

Anxiety/OCD:

Anxiety/OCD Symptoms: My background with OCD and anxiety is that I have several family members and friends with anxiety and OCD, and I know that it's a really difficult disorder to live with especially when you're trying to deal with it on your own.

I know there have been a couple people who have already pointed out Nathaniel's OCD and anxiety-like behaviors, especially in the ways that it parallels Sticky's anxiety and OCD tendencies (and I might do another post talking more in depth about Sticky but if you haven't read Sophie's amazing fic about it, do that now).

I noticed these symptoms of Curtain's mostly in season 1, where Curtain started out as a seemingly confident and calm evil mastermind behind the Emergency and then became increasingly anxious and upset the more he lost control. You could also argue the way the Institute is governed by so many rules designed to not look like rules and Curtain's extreme need for control and orderliness are also signs of OCD or anxious tendencies. (and his anxiety and frustration when that control and order is disrupted, such a when he screams at his stenographer that "every minor detail" matters).

In my fic, I do a few examples of Curtain experiencing intrusive and negative thought patterns and using control to try and cope with that, but since it's not a disorder I've been diagnosed with or symptoms I personally experience, I try to keep it within Nathaniel's canon concerns (his fear of failure, being abandoned by his friends and family, his paranoia and mistrust of others especially when he's investigating the kids in season 1 and assumes Nicholas came to the island to mock him).

There's also a scene where Curtain makes SQ believe that his friend Reynie is only trying to take advantage of him, and while it's an example of Curtain letting his own anxieties and fears overshadow what's best for his son, I really try to write in an way that emphasizes that Curtain does believe he is doing the right thing and protecting him, even if he's not doing it correctly. While I mostly focus on his anxiety and OCD symptoms and tendencies in season 1 (because that's when they are emphasized the most), you could also argue he has them a bit towards the end of season 2 as well, but I also think that might be RSD related, which I'll talk about later.

I have also considered possibly exploring more about his relationship with Nicholas especially within the context of my head canon of Nicholas having ADHD and Nathaniel having OCD, because I've had those kind of relationships irl, and sometimes it's balanced really well, because the person with OCD is usually better at executive functioning while the person with ADHD can provide distraction from negative thoughts and reassurance/emotional support, and those are the kinds of relationships I've had that have worked really well. However, I've also had relationships, mostly with roommates, where things just don't match up; they want a roommate with a certain level of cleanliness that follows a steady and predictable routine they can plan around (when you shower, when you bring guests over, etc.) and I just can't live like that and it's no fun getting bullied and nagged all the time and it's also no fun living with someone who is messy and unpredictable, so I can understand why in a situation where both these things were happening, Nicholas leaving created very complicated feelings for both of them.

I'm not sure if I'll have the chance to explore that more in flashbacks or maybe in season 2 when they spend more time together, but it is an interesting dynamic. And just like I said with Nicholas' ASD head canon, while I have some personal experience with OCD and anxiety through friends and family members, I don't have it myself, so I'm curious to know what people with OCD and anxiety think about this head canon and whether it's an accurate or positive one (because even though Nathaniel does grow and change, he's still an antagonist for most of the series especially in season 1), and if any of you guys think that it's a problematic head canon, or does more harm than good, please let me know.

It's also worth pointing out the Nicholas does have some anxious tendencies as well (this has been mentioned by several people in the fandom, and also Nicholas and Nathaniel are identical twins, so it is likely they'd have similar neurotypes), but he also has a better emotional support system than Nathaniel does, so it's likely easier for him to manage his anxiety in a healthy way vs. Nathaniel relying on control. I'd be interested in hearing what people with OCD and anxiety think about this and whether it could apply to both twins.

-----------------------------

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) symptoms:

BPD Symptoms: Since BPD is a less known disorder, I'll first explain that it's a personality disorder (PD) with 9 symptoms (you need 5 symptoms for diagnosis, which leaves 256 possible types of BPD) and it's often linked to some form of abandonment related childhood trauma (a parent leaving, dying, being emotionally distant or abusive, etc.). I will say I was on the fence about this one, and debated including it in my post at all, because I want to acknowledge that head canoning a character, especially a villain character, with a PD can be stereotyping and problematic if not done correctly (though there are many villain characters who have been head cannoned as having BPD by people with BPD (pwBPD) including Anakin from Star Wars, Catra from She-Ra, and Azula from ATLA).

Additionally, I'm also not someone diagnosed with PD, and wouldn't make head canons unless I thought it could be positive or accurate representation. And I think season 2 Nathaniel might qualify for that. Maybe, it's a little complicated. My experience with PDs and BPD comes from knowing people with it irl, but specifically older people with BPD (older than 45), who tend to present differently than younger people because they are on average less likely to have received mental health help or a diagnosis when they were younger and the relationships and goals you have and prioritize at 60 are not the same as the ones you had at 25. I specify season 2 Nathaniel when I talk about his BPD symptoms, mostly because that was when I noticed them. Going into season 2, I did not have BPD in mind as a head canon for him at all. But watching season 2, there were a lot of his scenes where I found myself saying "this looks familiar" and "wait...are they trying to portray BPD in an older person?" and then I realized that when you took out a DSM checklist and looked back at the character...he does fit the criteria pretty well.

However, just fitting a set of DSM criteria doesn't mean a character is good representation, and even accurate representation can still be stereotypical representation (*cough cough* Number Two's mom). Whether Nathaniel could be considered good BPD rep is a difficult question to answer for a couple reasons. The first is because characters with PDs are often stereotyped as villains and antagonists, and while Nathaniel is a sympathetic, likeable, and ultimately redeemed antagonist, he's still an antagonist (not as much of an antagonist as Anakin "the women and children too" Skywalker, a BPD head canon often made by individuals with BPD (plus more about his symptoms here)), but still an antagonist. And while people with BPD have head canoned antagonists as also having BPD, these are usually well-loved antagonists with popular and clear redemption arcs, and Nathaniel's book counterpart (who, for the record DOES NOT have any mental health disorder he's just awful) is very different from his character in the show. So even if Nathaniel is good BPD rep, if someone unfamiliar with how different the MBS show and books are sees the head canon and applies it to the book character on accident, it could leave them with a very false and negative view of the disorder. You could argue this could also easily happen with Nathaniel's anxiety head canon and his control issues, and it could, but anxiety isn't generally vilified nearly as much as PDs.

But on the other hand, I could also see where Nathaniel's BPD could be a positive head canon, and there were a lot of things about it that I really liked. BPD has slowly started to get more positive rep in the media and in the world of psychology in general, but stories with themes of self-improvement where the pwBPD is portrayed in a positive light are still normally reserved for younger people (20s/30s/early 40s) and people without kids. When older pwBPD, especially untreated or undiagnosed individuals and especially individuals with kids are shown in media or talked about in psychology...let's just say it's not great. Now, obviously untreated mental health symptoms can negatively effect the people around you and cause serious damage after so many years, but the lack of positive growth stories about older pwBPD has always bothered me because it completely ignores any good qualities they have, or even the possibility of getting help later in life, and I hate seeing people that I love consistently talked about and portrayed so negatively not just in media but in the field of psychology in general. I also think it's a bit ageist to say that young people can get help for their mental health disorders and improve, but that it's too late for older adults.

That's why I love so much of what they did with Nathaniel's character. They didn't dismiss the impact his symptoms had on his family and SQ, but they also didn't completely blame it all on his BPD symptoms (in fact, in season 1, his anxiety symptoms seemed to be the main focus). They also established very early on that Nathaniel was a redeemable and sympathetic character and wasn't meant to be a copy of his book counterpart (Reynie's 1x8 speech about how Curtain is a good person). Additionally, once his BPD symptoms were more present in season 2, that was when Nathaniel became more likeable in the eyes of the fandom, not less likeable, and I really like that they did that. For as much as we make jokes about hitting Curtain with his golf cart and hating him, I've also seen a lot of people talk about reluctantly coming around to loving his character as they've rewatched Season 2, and I was one of them for sure. I loved that they showed how silly and fun his character was, and how yeah, he's not thinking clearly and is actively committing crimes, but really all he wants is a world where he is loved and has his family with him, he doesn't actually want to hurt anyone. Then there's the fact that his narcolepsy trigger is vulnerability and how that could connect to his self-image, and the fact that the society kids have trauma linked to abandonment that could led to the development of BPD later and how that connects to themes of healing generational trauma (also side note: children can't have a BPD diagnosis so while the kids do have abandonment related traumas and you can draw parallels there, you can't head canon them with BPD to mirror Nathaniel the same way you can head canon other diagnosis between the adults and kids, like with Nicholas and SQ both having autism).

However, the positive aspects of Nathaniel as a BPD character ironically can also be seen as a bad thing, because on the one hand, it's nice to see an older person with possible BPD getting a self-improvement story arc and sympathetic portrayal, but on the other hand: the show was cancelled. And that was really upsetting to me, especially because becoming "a good guy" didn't completely remove Nathaniel's BPD or anxiety symptoms, but they showed him dealing with them in a more healthy way with a support system, and that's such a great message, and we have so little representation of that, so I'm glad they hinted at that...but they totally could have done more with it, and I'm so sad that they can't now because it's a message that does not go unappreciated.

For writing Nathaniel's BPD symptoms into my fic, this is a bit complicated, because while Nathaniel does have a lot of canon symptoms (abandonment related fears, mood swings, moments of anger, unstable relationships, impulsive career change and self identity between seasons, etc.), and I really don't need to add anything, it's still a matter of debate whether it's good representation or not, and I could see people interpreting his character a number of ways. So while I sticking to canon, I still leave things ambiguous. For example, there's a scene in my fic where Curtain admits he doesn't have a stable identity because he avoids vulnerability. You could say that's also due to BPD/unstable self-image or you could say it's entirely due to his canon narcolepsy trigger. It's up to you whether you want the BPD rep there or not, because I've reviewed posts and tips written by people with BPD about writing representation, and recognize that while Nathaniel fits the DSM criteria pretty well and the show focuses a lot on his abandonment issues and symptoms, he is still an antagonist for most of the series. A likable and ultimately redeemed antagonist, but still an antagonist, which means the plot of the show and my fic, while it's ultimately driving him to redemption, still require him do some pretty bad antagonistic things regardless of whether they are directly connected to any symptoms that he has (consider this your warning), and I can see why that aspect of it might be a turn off, which is why I leave the rep open to the interpretation of the reader.

As I mentioned, there are 256 possible types of BPD, I don't expect that everyone with BPD would relate to Nathaniel, and this is also generally a younger fandom (teens/20s/30s) and a big reason I like Nathaniel's rep is because he's portraying what I've seen in older as opposed to younger people with BPD, so it's possible someone with BPD looking at this character would either see it more as a representation of an older family member (because these things do run in families) or wouldn't be able to relate to him. But I'd still be curious to know what people with BPD think about this head canon and whether they agree that's what's being represented here and if so, whether it was done accurately or positively, and just like with other head canons, if any of you guys think that this head canon is problematic or does more harm than good, please let me know.

I'd also be curious to know what people think about Nicholas possibly also having BPD, because he did grow up in an orphanage and his adoptive parents don't seem to be around anymore. He also seems convinced that his friends will leave him whenever he makes a mistake, which...again it could be the anxiety, it could be that both twins have BPD...it could go a number of ways.

-----------------------------

RSD and CSD:

Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria (RSD): I know anxiety is also a popular Nicholas head canon, but I did want to mention the ways that I see Nicholas' flavor of anxiety as very RSD oriented. For those that don't know what RSD is, it's when you experience severe emotional pain because of failure or being rejected, and it's often related to ADHD. In my personal experience, it's a lot worse when you feel like you've messed up in a moral sense, done something wrong, hurt someone, or let someone down, especially when the other person assumes that you have malicious intentions, or did something on purpose. You just feel like you want to delete every memory of what happened or destroy yourself to make it go away. It can also happen in response to constructive criticisms too if the person still feels that they really messed up or hurt someone.

I see a lot of RSD/anxious tendencies in Nicholas, specifically in response to what he did to Nathaniel, but also at the thought of something happening to the children or his friends and it being his fault for creating the Sender and dragging them into this. This is also supported by the fact that Nicholas' anxiety seemed to go up a lot after 1x03 when he finds out Nathaniel is the Sender and he has his little breakdown in the woods. Obviously he's always been anxious about the operation in general, who wouldn't be, but once he realizes he might have himself to blame if things go wrong or if one of the children gets hurt, that's when the anxiety really starts to come. Again, you can feel free to disagree with this head canon and I could see Nicholas having anxiety in other situations as well, but as someone with ADHD-I who head canons Nicholas that way, this was something I picked up on.

Compliment Sensitivity Dysphoria (CSD): I talked about RSD with Nicholas and how it's common in ADHD-I, but RSD is common in other disorders too, and Curtain definitely has it, but I think he has something else as well. A little phenomena I also experience on occasion, which I have named "Compliment Sensitivity Dysphoria" (not a clinical term, my own term). I don't know if it's a thing other people with ADHD-I experience, or maybe just those of us who have a family history of other stuff and it's a combination of things that's causing it, but basically, it's the opposite of RSD. With RSD, you get one negative comment, you want to destroy yourself, but with CSD, you get complimented once, you develop a God complex.

I know I talked about the show's focus switching from looking at Nathaniel's anxiety symptoms in season 1 to his BPD symptoms in season 2, but something else changes between seasons 1 and 2 and that's the characters surrounding Nathaniel. In Season 1, he's getting criticized by Garrison, Nicholas tells him off at the end, his son is disobeying him, and he feels attacked. Season 2, everybody praises his every move all the time, leaving him open to CSD. Now speaking from personal experience, the CSD God complex thing is very fun, but you gotta watch out for those pesky consequences™️ because if you don't, the RSD will come back worse than you could ever imagine, so you need to look out (which, obviously, our poor Nathaniel did not do). I also love the way he apologizes at the end: "I might have been going about things the wrong way (nearly froze thousands of people including my own family) so let's just go now and never talk about it again because if I reflect on the bad things I did I will self-destruct so let's all just move on now thank you :)" absolutely iconic. Accountability king right there.

----------------------------

Maladaptive Daydreaming (MADD):

For those who don't know what maladaptive daydreaming is, I'll admit, I'm not as active with the MADD tumblr community (it does exist though) and you can google it, but if you've ever paced around or stimmed while listening to music and zoning about thinking about fictional characters, that's basically what that is, but it's only technically considered maladaptive if done to an unhealthy degree, but obviously what constitutes an "unhealthy degree" is a more vaguely defined area. MADD is incredibly common in people with ADHD (specifically, ADHD-Inattentive type), but it's also very common in OCD, ASD, and personality disorders as well.

MADD presents differently in different people, but in my experience, the dancing and stimming to repetitive or happy music is the format that tends to trigger the most euphoria. Which is interesting for someone like Nicholas, because having a form of narcolepsy that causes him to pass out when he feels real joy means he wouldn't have had the chance to experience MADD like that, until he's given the artificial happiness by Curtain. And once Curtain does? Nicholas is cheerfully pacing around his apartment (I think I commented somewhere on a live blog that it looked like MADD), and then there's the whole "dance party in the field scene", big MADD vibes there.

MADD also has an overlap with ASD (hence the stimming and motor stereotypy that often happens during the daydreaming), and OCD (because both involve repetitive and uncontrollable thoughts, it's just that the thoughts associated with MADD are fun and addictive thoughts instead of distressing ones. But they can still be harmful if taken to an extreme).

Again, clinically, I'm not sure if Nicholas has enough instances to be "diagnosed" with MADD, but those scenes in season 2 had the vibes going so I just thought I'd mention it. Also, a canonically autistic character that I (and many others) head canon with MADD is Abed Nadir from "Community" if you are interested in looking for another example of MADD in someone with autism.

Finally, you can maybe make the argument that Curtain has MADD as well, or at least one instance of it.

Again, I wouldn't say the MADD aspect is overly focused on in Nicholas or Nathaniel, but it's common in OCD, ASD, ADHD, and PDs (all of which tend to run together in families), and Nathaniel's Stand Back Dance had the vibe going for sure. Between moving across the world between seasons, getting a new career, and doing his little dance, the man was entering his Rebecca Bunch era (and if you don't know who that is, Rebecca Bunch is a pretty well known canon BPD representation from the tv show Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, and I've seen a lot of people head canon her with maladaptive daydreaming as well. She's also likely going to be Nathaniel's competition if he makes into the theater kid showdown, so for reference here's a clip of her experiencing RSD).

-----------------------------

Finally, since these are all disorders I know a lot about, I'm happy to answer any questions (as long as you keep it respectful and no ableist. Remember the RSD), and if you feel like any of these head canons are harmful and/or problematic, please let me know (mostly concerned about Nathaniel's head canons since he's a bad guy, but if you think Nicholas' head canons are problematic as well, feel free to message about those too. Again, remembering that I did this with the best of intentions and also the RSD).

Also, since the Benedict brothers are identical twins, and you could argue they both had signs of all the disorders, which all tend to run together in families anyway, so if you want to skip the DSM technicalities and what's popular in fandom and throw up your hands and say "they both have ASD/ADHD/OCD/BPD" it's a head canon, it can be whatever I want!" then know that I fully support you in that quest.

And for those who might not be as familiar with one or more of these disorders, or didn't realize they had such a strong genetic overlap and are interested in learning more, I have resources for that too!

Misdiagnosis Monday has some great charts of symptom overlap. I include some below.

[drh3nryj3kyll]

Hello! I’ve seen your posts and reblog an about nod as well as other people’s and they were a bit nervrackingly relatable. I did a built of research on it but I want to know a bit about it from a real person who has it before I try to get diagnosed. So can you tell me like symptoms and things like that? If you’d like

Of course! I'm assuming you meant NPD and nod is a typo. Just a warning, I am self-diagnosed (I've done months of research and reflection, though, and was in denial for a while) but I do plan to get an official diagnosis sometime in the future, I don't trust mental healthcare here but I might try the next time I see my psychiatrist.

Anyway, I'll get started. The experiences of pwNPD (people with NPD) may vary, but I'll speak from my experiences.

I tend to be very self-focused, arrogant, and especially hyperfixated on the idea of me being successful. My need to be successful, to be someone is something that deeply affects me in my daily life. I might act like I'm the best and seem quite pretentious, but admittedly, the self-esteem of pwNPD is extremely fragile. Big ego (which is also fragile), fragile self-esteem. I also withdraw from any situation in which I know or think I have a possibility of failure. For me, this includes music. I also tend to get pettily upset at even the smallest losses, like, for example, when I lost a simple checkers match with my partner. That was well over weeks ago, but my ego still hasn't recovered from that. A lot of pwNPD also have difficulty with empathy. I'm not sure if my low empathy is due to my autism or my NPD, but I experience it nonetheless. I have a lot of difficulty imagining what others feel like or even caring about how they feel, even if it's someone I like. I do try to help or comfort them, but inevitably I don't empathise with them. It's rare, but I have heard of high empathy pwNPD too. Many pwNPD struggle with vulnerability as well. It makes us feel weak, incompetent, the sort. We don't want that because we want to see ourselves as perfect, which is why it can sometimes be really difficult to trust people with our feelings. I don't even trust my own boyfriends to be vulnerable with them.

Why does NPD develop? NPD develops usually in childhood to early adulthood, and is lifelong. Most of the time it's from childhood trauma or excessive praise at an early age. Now me? My father was mostly absent during my entire life, I'm hyperverbal, meaning I was able to make use of language at a very early age, and I'm a skilled artist and story writer, I've also been very knowledgeable and curious, and quite ambitious at a young age. Of course, this led to the adults around me constantly praising me when I was young, constantly indirectly setting expectations for me, telling me I'd be something great. Soon, the praise, at least from my mother, felt very half-assed and I started feeling like I was doing something wrong. I'd always been very ambitious, so I don't know how I could live with myself if I died a nobody. I've had some trauma too which really stressed me out, etc., which could've contributed to how I am now.

There are also things like narc crashes. NPD crashes often occur when a pwNPD doesn't have enough supply, but it may happen after receiving critique or otherwise too. Supply is what narcissists need to keep themselves from crashing, which typically includes amounts of praise or compliments. When I crash, I tend to withdraw from people and be overly critical of myself or quite angry, and it often results in my mental breakdowns or meltdowns due to my incapability of handling strong emotions.

And heres a resources masterlist, they have a diagnostic criteria somewhere in there too https://www.tumblr.com/mischiefmanifold/728311937261355008/image-description-dark-pink-text-on-a-pale-pink?source=share

Even if you do end up not having NPD but still seem to struggle with things we do, or if you do find out you have NPD, here are some things that you might find useful.

Make people aware of your needs. It's okay to ask for a little praise or compliments once in a while, and they can really make me feel better and prevent me from crashing or having a meltdown. I also have a bot for compliments over here.

Keep a little collection, maybe a corner or an album, of things you're proud of. When you're feeling worthless it can help to look back on previous achievements and strive to be better.

Remember to be patient with yourself. It's fine to be the way you are, it's fine if you won't change, it's fine, really. But I know if you're struggling with how NPD or NPD traits affect you if you do have it, you can definitely find a way to properly accommodate yourself and your needs to live better.

I'm still learning myself on how to accommodate my needs and work through my struggles, but I hope that helps.

Tell me if you have any more questions or concerns!

[sharpth1ng]

Love debaser, love that you’re a psych major. I am also so that’s awesome. I feel like tbh that’s probably why you’re good at characterization as well. I was wondering how you can tell in general if someone is autistic vs bpd? You’ve talked about Billy’s psych before, and I am just wondering if you can talk about it generally too.

Thanks so much! Essay incoming:

So I would say take all of this with a grain of salt, I'm not a clinician- I work with clinicians but this isn't my specialty and personality disorders should really be diagnosed by specialists.

But generally the best evidence we have about the development of BPD is genetic vulnerability (Things like emotional sensitivity and impulsivity can have a strong genetic component) in combination with an invalidating or unsupportive social environment. What counts as a trauma for someone depends heavily on what their level of sensitivity is, and also what resources they have to deal with it, so the idea is that bpd is essentially something that develops when someones emotions and needs are invalidated consistently from a young age.

It becomes hard to trust other people and also your own feelings, and you may learn that you have to do things like lying to get the help an support that you need, or that your emotions are so large and you have so little support for them that the only way to cope is to harm yourself. All this is to say that bpd, trauma, and invalidation are closely tied together.

Now moving on to the connection with autism, because theres a not insignificant number of autistic people who are also diagnosed with bpd. This may be a slightly sweeping statement, but at least for myself, being an autistic child was inherently traumatizing. I was constantly subjected to sensory hell in school, around other kids, and particularly at meal times, and my meltdowns were perceived as intentional tantrums. On top of this I would lose the ability to speak sometimes and this was also taken as an intentional behaviour.

Because there are so many things neurotypical people don't even notice that are traumatic to autistic folk (like fluorescent lights or an unexpected change of plans) we are constantly invalidated, especially when we are young. Basically here I'm just trying to explain why the overlap exists.

No on to differentiating the two, this is a useful diagram:

The real answer here is that we're still really trying to figure out exactly how these two disorders interact and how to differentiate them and in my opinion theres a lot of terrible research in personality disorders, and a lot of unqualified people giving out diagnosis (don't trust your family doctor to diagnose you with a mental disorder, they at most got like a month training and psychologists, psychiatrists and counsellors study this stuff for for 6-8 years).

There is also some evidence that autistic people who were assigned female at birth are more likely to be diagnosed with bpd than people who were assigned male at birth who have the same symptoms, so there might be a gender bias in the way that diagnosticians perceive people too.

There are some bigger differences to look at though, so things like sensory symptoms (sensitivities but also stimming), special interests, neurodivergent body language, literal interpretation and introversion are more common for autistics. In contrast, people with only bpd are more likely to have a history of childhood abuse or neglect, heightened sensitivity to perceived social threat (which some autistic folk may be oblivious to), drastic emotional up and down, and personality instability, where they frequently change values, hobbies, opinions, friendships, ect. (while in contrast most autistic people are pretty consistent on those things.)

One of the most important things is to figure out why behaviours are happening- for example, self harm and substance abuse are common for both groups, but for autistics these behaviours are often a way to compensate for sensory overload and anxiety, while for people with bpd they are a way to deal with feelings of emptiness or overwhelming emotion.

Another example would be difficulty in relationships- for autistic people this often comes from an inability to spontaneously produce neurotypical social behaviours, so a lot of us miss cues or copy and paste behaviours to try and blend. In contrast many people with BPD have an unstable sense of self, so their social behaviours can seem "disorganized" from the outside, and they may miss read situations because they constantly looking for threats so they can try and protect themselves.

Personal history is also important- if someone has a deep distrust of people because they were neglected as a child, this may point to bpd, but if they have a distrust of people because the weren't able to read their peers and got severely bullied for special interests in elementary school, then this may point to autism.

And again, some people do have both! But it's honestly really difficult to differentiate them without seeing a diagnostician over a long period of time. Its super important though, effective treatment for an autistic person is different than effective treatment for people with bpd, and for people with both its different as well.

I hope this is somewhat clear! I don't want to simplify any of this because it actually is really complex and I just want to be honest about that.

[alonestuckinthestars]

Auditory Processing Disorder

I've known I have auditory processing issues for a while but... Attending the con yesterday made me realize I very VERY likely have Auditory Processing Disorder, lol.

I spent most of my afternoon there with my friend and her boyfriend and for the life of me I just could NOT hear her boyfriend speak. My friend speaks VERY loud and clear so hearing her is not as much of an issue, but her boyfriend's volume of voice was at the same level as the background noise so everything mashed in together and I could not make out what he was saying, even if everyone else who struck a convo with him could hear him just fine.

Poor guy kept trying to talk to me (and I appreciate that lol) but all I could do was fake hmmhmm's, yeah's and haha's because the number of times I would have had to ask him to repeat himself is embarrassing. At one point he asked me something and though I heard him speak, I just did NOT understand so I looked away and stayed quiet hoping it was just a plain statement to close the topic until he repeated himself and it was actually a question.

It drives me insane because due to this I just can't fully engage in conversation even if I'd want to. It makes me look distant, standoffish, stupid, you name it. This happens at work all the time too, and looking up online there's other struggles I've always had I'd never even known were related to APD. Trouble remembering what was said, trouble following verbal instructions, difficulty on the phone if there's background noise, etc.

At least I guess I find comfort in the fact that APD often co-occurs with autism and ADHD, so I feel validated in the idea that I'm NOT making all this shit up. I might not look into an autism diagnosis bc that shit is expensive and hard to get but having APD diagnosed would perhaps be a lot more helpful to me in explaining shit to people/getting accomodations all the while being simultaneously validating of my autism in itself to me personally.

It's just frustrating that no one ever flagged this in my life. Like ok I get being undiagnosed for autism or adhd but auditory processing issues?? That shit is clearly visible man... My grandma herself said in my childhood I'd often be irresponsive when called on or talked to, as if I didn't hear them. This could be a symptom of many things, but PLEASE!!!! You have a disabled child right here!!!! Fucking do something about it instead of ignoring it oh my GOD!!!!!

Anyways. That said I'll try to look into formal diagnosis for it I guess, at least that'd be one thing clarified and dealt with.

[gggoldfinch]

the first time I wrote this my laptop crashed halfway through and deleted everything and I started sobbing. here we go again, part 2, I'll try not to have a fucking stroke:

(Also not to be weird or unkind but pls don’t read/like/reply to this if you’re not a follower or mutual of mine. I trust my regulars and mutuals, some y’all that blow in on the wind scare me ��)

here’s a little personal ramble about me discovering(?) my neurodivergency (with a sprinkle of childhood trauma) (I lied it’s not a sprinkle it’s a backhoe full) because I just had a fucking MASSIVE epiphany while sitting here doing nothing. Feel free to read idc, I just need somewhere to put this since I don’t have a shrink, and maybe some y'all will relate, considering we’re all a bit touched in the head here. This is a blog and I’m finally treating it like one lmao

a little context: I had somewhat severe epilepsy from age 4-5 that seemingly had no cause, and went away on its own. yay. 

so, on to the topic at hand. My family had numerous stories about how I used to get seriously SERIOUSLY overwhelmed/ overstimulated as a child— so much so that on one particular occasion I hid in a basket of toys in my bedroom during my own birthday party until my mom had to make everyone leave early. Needless to say I was labelled “a handful.” My parents always blamed these outbursts of overstimulation in social settings on my epilepsy (even though this behavior continued after my epilepsy cured itself), saying that it made me tired, irritable, easily overwhelmed, etc. But now as an adult, knowing there is a fairly decent likelihood that I have not only adhd but autism too, this makes much more sense. Side note: my parents refuse to believe their child could be neurodivergent (among many other bigoted things their child could not be)—they shoot me down whenever I propose the idea, calling me silly—so it’s likely that bringing me to a specialist never crossed their minds, considering they didn’t want to consider it and I didn’t portray the “traditional symptoms” of neurodivergency that were known about in the early 2000s. 

all this being said, yes, I just had that epiphany while sitting here on my couch and was like. oh. damn, that kinda makes sense now, looking back through a different lens. It’s always been here, apart of me. It’s always been with me. And realizing this kinda makes me a little sad. I have all the resources at my fingertips now as an adult to learn about all the ways my behavior has been misinterpreted throughout my life. All the times when I refused to let my mom brush/touch/style my hair, when I'd only eat the same favorite foods, why I was SO obsessed with pacifiers, why I would lash out and get overwhelmed and torment everyone around me. I understand why now, and it strangely makes me feel so sad and alone.

I feel like I’m always mourning my childhood and the loss of it (crying rn lol, a tear fell in my mouth). I was friendless and bullied for 9 whole years of my life, throughout my entire elementary and middle education. My grandparents, who were my best friends, died 15 months apart and I never got proper closure, and am still in mourning over a decade later. I was diagnosed with several life changing diseases when I was just a poor dumb kid and it virtually stripped my teenage years to their bare bones. I had good times, I did, but you don’t often remember the good times, do you. I remember feeling alone, overwhelmed, and so so so different for so many years of my life, and not understanding why. I really do think my childhood ended when my grandparents died when I was 10, because after that ushered in the mental and physical health problems, and still, no comfort in peers until my late teens. Even when I finally had friends in high school (not the same friends from high school that I've talked about here, mind you), they would tease me; laugh when I’d slip up verbally, or when I was slow on the uptake, even if I asked them to stop. I’d feel overwhelmed and isolated, but I'd suck it up because this is what friends do, despite this being exactly what my merciless “friend” bullies did in middle school. 

Now I realize that I always had the right to be overwhelmed and angry that no one understood why— my symptoms of neurodivergy came in a “gifted kid” box, with hyperfixations and poor social skills abound. Now Ive got gifted kid burnout and explanations for my younger self. I understand why I sometimes felt like I needed to peel off my skin if I felt overwhelmed (still do lol), why kids didn’t want to be friends with me and thought I was weird, why I was so susceptible to teasing and why I couldn't stand up for myself, why I always pretended to fit in even though I and everyone else knew I didn’t. 

I think I deserve to grow more now, knowing all this. I know I’ve done and said a lot of stupid shit I'm not proud of, and I know it may be a copout to blame it on not being entirely sure how to navigate social situations or on kids being mean little bastards, but I sincerely think I've grown as a human just by realizing it hasn’t all been my fault like I've told myself for so long. I didn’t drive people away as a kid, I couldn’t help it if I acted out when I was overwhelmed or overstimulated or humiliated— I didn’t want to put my mom through hell when she too was young and overwhelmed with having her first kid. But that’s all behind me, and I think that knowing now where it likely all stems from, I should these experiences to get to know myself a bit more, and take care of myself. Forgive myself. 

okay now that I've cleared my sinuses with that hearty sob sesh... 🤷🏻‍♀️

[my-autism-adhd-blog]

hello! i’ve got four questions, i hope that’s not too much: 

what are some websites describing how autism can present in teenagers/older children? symptoms and traits and etc? 

can you be simultaneously hyposensitive AND hypersensitive to something? (for ex: taste) ((or like the hypersensitivity/hyposensitivity fluctuates and etc))

even if someone got an autism evaluation when they were younger (like at the age of one or two) and it was decided that they weren’t autistic, is it still possible to get diagnosed with autism at an older age? 

can autistic symptoms present at any age (like adulthood or older childhood) or do the symptoms always pretty much show up during babyhood/toddlerhood? 

sorry if these are too many questions! 

Hi there,

I’ll do my best to answer your questions.

Question 1

Signs of autism in older children and teenagers sometimes become more noticeable at the start of primary or secondary school.

Signs include difficulties with new social situations at school. If older children and teenagers have signs of autism, start by seeing a GP.

Health professionals will diagnose autism only when they’ve ruled out other explanations for children’s behavior

The source will be below:

Here is another article from Kids Health

The last one comes from WebMD

Teenage-specific symptoms. Social skill deficits might be more pronounced during the teenage years. The following are more signs to look out for in your teen with autism:

* Difficulty with puberty: A teen girl with ASD might need to be told directly what a period feels like, when to expect one, and how to use sanitary products for menstruation. She might not pick up this information from friends or peers. Both teen boys and girls might also need explicit instruction on when sexual topics and body issues are and aren’t appropriate to talk about. 

* Seizures: Seizures and epilepsy are more common in people with ASD than in neurotypical people. Due to hormonal changes around puberty, many teens with ASD will have their first seizure. Teens who already have seizures may have them more frequently, which can be alarming to them and their parents.

* Trouble in school: Even exceptionally smart kids with ASD might struggle when transitioning to a more conceptual framework in school. In middle and high school, your child will be asked to write essays, think critically, and form opinions. Dealing with this educational change in the midst of everything else going on can be extremely difficult.

* Loss of friends: Teens with autism are at risk of being bullied by peers because of repetitive behaviors, unusual interests, or not having age-appropriate social skills.

* Mood disorders: Due to the chaos of puberty and the increased social expectations from their peers, autistic teens often struggle with their emotions. Some develop depression or anxiety. Anxiety is common in teens with ASD: Around 39% of youth with ASD have a diagnosed anxiety disorder.

Question 2/3.

I do believe you can be both hyposensitive and hypersensitive. I’ll leave some links about these below if you want to learn more.

Question 4.

It depends on the person. I do believe you can be diagnosed at a later age if it was concluded your weren’t autistic by physicians/psychologists because of symptoms that might show up or manifest later as we age.

Question 5.

The manifestation of symptoms in autism depends on the individual. Some may show signs as a toddler and be diagnosed. While others won’t really show signs until they reach primary school. According to the CDC:

ASD begins before the age of 3 years and can last throughout a person’s life, although symptoms may improve over time. Some children show ASD symptoms within the first 12 months of life. In others, symptoms may not show up until 24 months of age or later. Some children with ASD gain new skills and meet developmental milestones until around 18 to 24 months of age, and then they stop gaining new skills or lose the skills they once had.

As children with ASD become adolescents and young adults, they may have difficulties developing and maintaining friendships, communicating with peers and adults, or understanding what behaviors are expected in school or on the job. They may come to the attention of healthcare providers because they also have conditions such as anxiety, depression, or attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, which occur more often in people with ASD than in people without ASD.

This article will be below if you want to read through it.

I hope these sources help you. Thank you for the inbox. I hope you have a wonderful day/night. ❤️

[girlrottingsince2001]

it's sad that being late diagnose autistic and having everyone* gaslight my autoimmune conditions for a decade because they've been so misunderstood for so long (even with all the massive amounts of information coming out on all my conditions in the last 5 or so years people still don't wanna take it seriously) that I obsess over these false ideas of being a "good human" that aren't as important as being a "good person".

being a "good human" is ableist and about our mechanical and cognitive abilities. being a "good person" is about doing our best be respectful and understanding of others and doing what we believe and know is right even when we we may have disabilities and struggles that make it hard to function in social dynamics and society.

it's hard to let go of the internalized ideas of I'm a failure or putting ideas of morality on my meltdowns. it's hard to not feel like I'm broken garbage. I would never feel that way about anyone else who is autistic or disabled in any other way but that internalized trauma of not being truly recognized as a disabled person with my cognitive disabilities (autism, adhd, complex ptsd) and my physical ones and instead being labeled as "weak", "failure", "making it up", "attention whore", "faking it", "manipulative", and so much more.

There were many people from childhood to early adulthood that did recognize my disabilities, but not with compassion, they looked at me "useless garbage taking up space" and "polluting the world". they believed people like me should be aborted or euthanized for being disabled and not being useful enough to society.

Although I think all this shit is wrong and false. I was so programmed to hate myself and not even recognize myself as disabled. A lot of what I've learned is disability I associated with just being stupid or useless and other harmful shit because everyone* around me did.

In meltdowns and complex ptsd episodes or any other time I'm struggling with metacognition it's hard to recognize that these things are disability symptoms and to have compassion with myself without falling back into those old timelines of being told I should hate and blame myself for being a "bad human". It's hard to remind myself that I am disabled not a pos and that I am still worthy of love.

it sucks because I don't have these beliefs of other disabled people, because I've never believed or agreed with this shit. But the problem is my image of self and having internalized the ableist trauma shit for almost 2 decades before I was finally validated for my cognitive and physical disablities. Even when I had diagnosis or all the symptoms of my disabilities (like going above and beyond minimal requirement for diagnosis) I was gaslight by professionals and doctors for my age. Which is inane because you'd think that with me being so young and being physically disabled they'd take it seriously ??? but no. and if doctors did take it seriously they'd be like you're too young for any treatment options but then gaslight me for my falls and needing a cane at 17.

My disabilities have often been framed as some kind of "choice" or "attempt for attention" – which is so fucking hilarious to me considering I HATE BEING PERCEIVED AND WOULD LOVE TO DISAPPEAR.

but not being able to recognize and validate the fact that I am cognitively and physically disabled for about 2 decades really fucked up myself worth and image of self, and it kept me stuck in cycle of internalized ableism without even realizing because I didn't even know it was ableism. Sometimes I still forget. I think the reason I've had such a completely different view of my own disabilities and others with disabilities is I recognize others as legitimately being disabled while gaslighting myself on being disabled at all because other people did it so much. and being undiagnosed autistic we fall into masking of letting everyone else define who we are and what we should be in order to survive in normie culture. So until finding people who love and accept me for my disabilities I haven't been able to even accept I am disabled until the last year really. And accepting I am disabled is the key to loving myself. I don't think there's anything wrong with being disabled. but when I can't recognize I am disabled, it becomes about some other idea of "morality" on myself that I was trained to develop through trauma. and it's hard because in these rougher states I fall backwards and the people who love me try to validate that I am disabled and there's nothing wrong with it. But I don't even think it's disability, I equate it to some of there idea of being a "good human" because trauma.

I honestly want to draft this like most my expressions of self but I also know that I need to for myself be open with the struggles of being disabled because I believe it's important for disabled people to share our stories and struggles and to be seen in the world. and I need to stop being ableist to myself like I never would be to others.

but being seen and being disabled is often traumatic. because you're seen through a lens of ableism and other misperceptions, rather than being seen for the reality of your multitudes and who you are as a disabled person.

(I hope my grammar is right and this says what I mean, I just got out of a meltdown and needed to rant and brain not doing so good)

[selfindulgenttiger]

Childhood Clues

I was discussing with someone today the fact that, to be diagnosed with autism as an adult, you have to have shown signs in early childhood. Depending who you ask, that's before age 6, age 8, age 11, or age 18. With so many people (women most often) being diagnosed as adults, some people are questioning the frequency of diagnosis. (Untreated C-PTSD and PTSD symptoms can manifest very similarly to autism.) That started me reflecting on my own childhood behavior and what clues were missed or dismissed. I wanted to catalogue them (because I'm autistic and that's what we do with information). This is stuff from early childhood to pre-teen years. Category A: Deficits in social communication and social interaction

This area of the diagnostic criteria is the hardest for me to judge, because you don't really see your own deficits in this area. If you don't understand what the social rules are, you don't see how you are breaking them. What I can say is that I never made friends easily, and I wasn't particularly bothered by that until I was old enough to realize I was perceived as weird because of it. From second through fourth grade, I don't remember having a friend. I typically spent recess walking in a circle around my favorite tree, which I enjoyed. I was the outsider everywhere. I didn't make friends in Brownies, I didn't make friends in my performing arts classes, I was even "the weird kid" among the gifted kids. Another part of this is your nonverbal communication. There are literally dozens of photos of me with a flat affect from early childhood. Smiling never came naturally to my face. And I assume there was something off about my eye contact and general manners, because I remember my dad explicitly teaching me to make eye contact, smile, use people's names, and express warmth. (He had read it in a book, so obviously this was novel information to Dad, too, that he felt compelled to share.)

Category B: Repetitive behaviors and restricted interests.

This? Not so hard to spot. I knew I was different in this way. I just didn't understand that it meant something. The first point is basically stimming. Where to begin? Lifelong constant knuckle-cracking. Nail, cuticle, and lip biting till I'd bleed. Knee-bouncing. Echolalia in the form of this high-pitched screech sound I enjoyed making, and singing the same songs again and again and again and again. (I still sing them when I'm really stressed.) My interests were definitely what they mean by "restricted interests" which is basically what we'd call "obsessed" in the lay vernacular. Like I became obsessed with mice from around 7-12. I accumulated 41 mouse stuffed toys that I did not play with but arranged in a tableau. I wanted pet mice, even though they're very short-lived compared to other pets and I'd have total meltdowns when one died. I would talk my parents into getting me another and tell them I'd be able to handle it this time, but I never could. (I also collected Weebles, Barbies, Smurfs, and Cabbage Patch Kids, but no other stuffed animals. Most kids have a mixture of different stuffed animals, but I only wanted mice. I didn't actually really play with the other toys either. I just liked having collections and creating tableaux.) Star Trek was such a fixation from elementary school on. Every year they'd have a 3-day Labor Day weekend marathon on one of our local stations. I would try to stay up for all three days. One year, on day three, I yanked the phone out of the wall for having the temerity to keep ringing during a favorite episode. I had all 79 episode titles and descriptions memorized. I sneakily studied my uncle's copy of the technical manual for the Enterprise, even though he didn't want me touching it because it was collectible. One of the greatest disappointments of my young life was not convincing my parents to take me to the convention. I never played soccer or particularly liked soccer, but I went to all the Strikers games with my dad. He would buy me a program and I would memorize the roster of every team. Then when he'd say "great play by number 12" I would tell him all that person's stats. I didn't love the game, but boy, did I love the stats.

Another thing that falls under this category is sensory sensitivities. I had the stereotypical autistic girl hypersensitivity issues (which for the record are screaming when your hair gets brushed, rejecting blue jeans and socks because of the seams, and complaining about the sound of electricity in the walls or bugs walking). But I also have my own oddball ones, like rejecting shoes. I had to have the tips of three toes reattached before age 10 because I wouldn't even wear shoes when riding a bike or walking outdoors. My poor parents had to take me to the ER so many times. (I still cannot bring myself to keep my shoes on any more than is strictly necessary.)

I also rejected any clothing that was textured (so no corduroy in the 70s) or had heavy seams (no jeans even at the height of the Gloria Vanderbilt trend). I would steal my dad's work shirts because they were smooth. For several years, I went to school in scrubs I got at a yard sale. (Scrubs. In middle school. You can guess how that went.) And finally, of course, the overstimulation issue. I had a meltdown and ended up fighting with my mom or crying at every holiday gathering ever. I ran away from my own 10th birthday party and hid for half an hour because my grandmother was going to give me a kiss. My mother loathed taking me on vacation because I invariably got super excited and then overstimulated and then had a meltdown. By the time I was a teenager, she swore she'd never take me again.

When I look back, yeah, it was very clearly there but no one knew what it was. I just seemed like an unruly, melodramatic, weird kid. (And maybe not all the weird in my family.)

[mangodestroyer]

Vent about trauma and mental health.

I feel like there's this stigma around mental health where if you don't manage it perfectly 100% of the time and basically overcome your condition completely, you're a toxic fuck up and you didn't even try.

And, I mean, I've gotten this sentiment from people over my autism of all things. A condition you can't cure. And my cPTSD symptoms as well. Something that can be managed, but again, trauma is for life.

And I think this sentiment from both therapists and society has actually slowed down my healing. Got me too caught up on looking at my own failings as an individual and blaming myself for a lot of things. Which basically led to me putting up with abuse from others, thinking I made that happen (an idea that originates from behavioral therapies from childhood).

So I did a lot of work, research, and thinking on my own. After hitting a rock bottom point in my life. And tbh, I feel a lot more mentally well forgiving myself for being imperfect. And no longer questioning if there's something seriously wrong with me for... having a mental breakdown over a stressful or triggering situation for instance. And, I mean, even saving the mental breakdown for when I'm alone and not making it other people's problem.

I think maybe it's completely normal to sometimes not be okay. And I'm starting to think it's a little ridiculous that I ever found it toxic of me to have normal human emotions (and thought it was wrong for me to have boundaries and not like abuse). And, you know, I've seen people from completely healthy backgrounds sometimes get overwhelmed by life too. So it's really not that abnormal.

And I don't think getting bothered by your trauma from time to time is a bad thing. I don't think you need to be 100% optimistic about the world and believe it's a safe, perfect place in order to be "cured." Trauma responses exist for a reason, and no, if the world was this safe, perfect place, there wouldn't be traumatized individuals. And so many of them at that. I swear, some people act like we're just like this for the hell of it, or like our brains goofed (and I've never met a therapists who actually wanted to talk about my trauma). Obviously it isn't healthy to believe EVERYONE is dangerous, but I'm also finding it helpful to actually analyze why certain situations in my life were dangerous and unhealthy, validate the damage it caused, and learning how to protect myself in the future. Because no, not everyone is a bad person, but clearly, bad people do exist and not everyone has your best interests in mind. Again, there wouldn't be traumatized individuals if this wasn't true, and there wouldn't be so many horrible things, like r*pe and m*rder happening either.

I wouldn't be traumatized if I hadn't known people who constantly went out of their way to hurt me and play games with me. Make me feel completely worthless and derive joy from seeing me miserable. Threatened me and even told me they wish I was dead, whether directly or just by implying that. Or realizing I may have dodged a bullet and almost gotten myself into other dangerous situations. Like, clearly I've seen a dark side of humanity. No, I'm probably never going to be 100% okay, dealing with that for nearly two decades. CONSTANTLY. From a handful of individuals. And no, I don't think this makes me a fuck up. And I don't think me being autistic gives other people an excuse to be such vultures. It's not my fault at all! They made the choice to go for someone less popular/more vulnerable and kick them while they're down. It's clearly more of a reflection of their sadistic tendencies and lack of empathy. And realizing that there are such sick individuals out there who are completely irredeemable sucks (I've tried everything to make these relationships work and to "work on myself" to make their abusive behaviors stop, but no, treating these people like they're reasonable and caring will NEVER work). But AGAIN, there wouldn't be such unspeakable things happening in the world if people like that didn't exist. And ignoring this fact about reality, as many people strangely enough do, does nothing to actually fix these problems and makes victims feel hella isolated.

So yeah, this became a bit of a tangent. But accepting this dark side of reality and realizing all the gaslighting around my mental illness has been a huge game changer. For once, I feel SANE. I'm actually seeing myself become more emotionally regulated and functional. It's ironically improved my autistic symptoms as well, just accepting my condition as it is. At the very least, I'm learning how to better navigate the world WITH my autism, rather than trying to reject it. And guess what? People are starting to find me more approachable/likeable. Something my autism was supposedly getting in the way of.

You aren't defective for being different/having problems. At this point, I believe you can learn to work with your mental conditions. I feel like I've learned how to use my trauma as a tool to protect me and grew from it, rather than let it control me. You're allowed to have flaws and it's okay if you need to do things differently.

[just-system-rambling]

a lot of times we worry that we're schizophrenic and our treatment providers are just trying to make sure we don't ditch treatment or something or we've convinced them stuff is real that actually isn't

thing is, i know they are going to be honest with us, they've been willing to say things that are hard to hear before, if we ask questions about if we might have X disorder because of Y symptoms, they'll be honest, if we disagree and think we do, we can ask why, and after a few months of back and forth we tend to figure out a way for either us or them to understand what's going on better. The only thing we've gone back and forth on with providers is autism as a diagnosis, and it's basically come to a resolution that we can't be diagnosed, if Aspergers was still a diagnosis they *could* label it that, but with current criteria, it's not possible.

but i know our whole life with abusers, we were trained/brain washed/coerced into believing our experiences aren't real, our memory is wrong, and we don't actually know what really happened.

that's why half of us aren't able to believe or comprehend what we went through. that's why we have so many of us that don't recognise abuse as a major effect for right now. that's why we don't think much about how fucked up our history is.

we've never seen accounts of abuse and neglect that were anywhere near similar to ours. we've seen many cases where there was similar amounts, but different types of abuse or different intensities of abuse. it's honestly super isolating. and that was before our current therapist noticed we've experienced spiritual abuse too. we didn't know that stuff even counted or mattered.

it really fucking hurts when specialists' best comparisons for what you went through is comparing it to children from Russian or Romanian orphanages. because no one fucking even talks about that type of childhood outside of medical articles analyzing them. and that wasn't including most of the abuse.

we didn't ever get placed in foster care or an orphanage. this happened within a family.

the abusive shits got what they wanted, for us to be isolated and not have a way to show their filth. though if we can cooperate enough to write a book or several, maybe that won't be the case.

[gloriousmishaps]

figuring out you might have a diagnosable mental illness in your adult years and then looking back on everything you did as a kid and slowly connecting the dots is both a satisfying and terrifying experience