#and his mikeness bc he likes him That much and will just . he's so conflicted. bc he can't do this with this new guy if he still loves

[bylertruther]

modern au mike would be the repressed internalized homophobia harboring kind of gay that says shit like "it's not gay to kiss ur homies goodnight 🙄 that's just being a good bro" and is essentially playing gay chicken with will 24/7 which is why will never suspects anything and thinks it's totally unrequited. bc they have Always been like this . and still mike insists he's straight and who is will to say Um Actually esp when mike made a big stink abt dating his sister n also gets super defensive abt it any time they talk abt it or get anywhere even remotely close to talking abt it. hope this helps 👍

[isa-ghost]

*places down some money*

Phil headcannons please

*eats the coins whole*

Other qPhil headcanons

He means it 1000% when he says he'd burn the entire island to the ground for the kids. No building would be safe. Not even his own. All bets would be off. And if one of the other parents would do the same for their kid? He'd be right there with them.

He loves every egg, dead and alive alike. He has no clue what any of them think of him, and tbh he'd probably be overly humble or vaguely negative abt it bc he's just so shitty to himself when it comes to image related things, thinking they probably find him weird or smth. But he loves them all, and even if any of the eggs DO have a negative opinion of him, he'd still shed blood sweat and tears for them.

GUYS PLEASE THIS IS CANON BUT he is SO BAD at picking up on certain things if not explicitly told. If you have an issue with bird man you have to TELL HIM. He has a million other things on his mind and he has survival brain on by default which means several other things are taking up brainspace, he doesn't have the means to be looking for subtle signs someone isn't happy with him. FUCKING COMMUNICATE WITH HIM!!

Idk I just think Fit, Pac & Mike should convince him to get high with them. But I can't tell if I want to say he'd actually chill out for once & get a lil goofy or if he'd be the type that gets super anxious & hates every second he's stoned

Has a manga collection. It's not that big series-wise, he's a completionist so his collection is big bc he collects every volume of a series he's interested in. He has all of Bleach ofc, most of Chainsaw Man, probably 1-3 other series. He's preoccupied with other things usually so he hasn't read any of them in ages, but Chayanne has been going WILD reading them when he's not out and about

He gets sluttier when he's drunk. That confidence boost he gets when he's drunk enough goes places. Particularly when he's around Fit (Fit's a bad influence /pos)

Tbh? If his usual civil disobedience and the like don't work, I would not put it past him to follow Cellbit's example and just start killing Feds. I don't know how canon Phil's past is but if this is the man who helped create the Antarctic Empire or the man that leveled an entire country? Quesadilla Island's days are numbered and it will be Specifically to spite Cucurucho and any other Fed that's responsible for whatever Phil has an issue with. All it takes is taking his kids away again or hurting his friends :)

Fr tho if/when he finds out what they did to Jaiden or Baghera or anyone of the other islanders? He WILL be unleashing hell for them.

He's ready at all times to die for someone. The goal is to Not die, but if it comes to it, better him than them. And in classic hypocritical Phil fashion, he vehemently refuses to allow anyone to do the same for him. The survivor's guilt would be too much for him.

Outwardly, he processes grief and stress with humor. Because if he doesn't, he'll shut down emotionally and mentally. But don't think for a second that internally, he's a wreck. He's angry, he's in pain, he's stressed, he's conflicted, he's grieving. He just won't let anyone know he is. He doesn't like admitting it.

That said, GOD do hugs and random acts of kindness during tough/dark times get him. It's a hit straight to the heart. He'll get emotional before he can stop it or mask it. They mean more than anything, and they're the quickest way to make him realize just how much shit he's shouldering and bottling up.

Currently his greatest fear is the Federation finding out about or asking him questions related to Ender King. Normally he'd at least prepare how to answer such questions. In this case he has no clue what to say, which really stresses him out. And he knows fleeing the conversation wouldn't go well.

He doesn't typically do anything special with his hair but goddamn it looks good in a short braid. He only ever does smth with his hair for certain events, like Festa Junina. And that was mostly because Tallulah insisted.

If the Federation one day declared every islander needed some kinda career for whatever weird reason, Phil's would be photography.

Don't listen to his complaining. He REALLY likes that there's so many birds around the house. Prefers them outside but he likes them around regardless.

[yourpreciousrose]

ok hear me out...could pockets be more telling than we thought?

this is the shirt Mike kissed El in and the shirt Mike saw Will again in. I didnt even notice there was s pocket at first, it blends in...almost like Mikes trying to either blend in or his true feelings are being hidden. or maybe he's unaware of his actual feelings so its hidden/blends in bc he doesn't know yet.

off center pocket, something is off and Mike knows it. this is the shirt El dumps him in and the shirt the byler fight happens in. Mike seemed to be projecting during the fight, Mike found out Will did want to spend his life with Mike...by his reaction I think Mike was already realizing that he is feeling things for men and Will specifically but pushing it away. his life is being pushed off center bc hes realizing but he's still trying to be normal, trying to push it away so the pattern is the same just off center.

then we have the weird two pocket shirt which design wise is weird...but what did we see when he was in this shirt? El saying she loves Mike back and kissing him as he keeps his eyes open. we also see how Mike acts when Will said he won't join another party. pair that up with the letter, things are changing. two pockets, conflicting feelings. they also seem to be in a weird location, idk where pockets are supposed to be located but it feels off. almost like its supposed to represent that its not over his heart bc he hasn't listened to his heart yet idk.

update: I missed a pocket shirt but this still works

so this shirt also has 2 pockets idk if the pockets are actually aligned or not but hear me out, they purposely made it look like one is higher than the other for a reason. one looks higher than the other, the pocket that happens to be on the same side as his watch that matches Wills seems to be higher up. this also works into the flower split where Mike gave El yellow and purple flowers but there was too much yellow. so like there was more yellow (Will) the pocket was higher (also Will?). so its like the pockets of the last pocket shirt we see him in with the button but with the almost arrow like design. so like a callback to that shirt to show that now he knows where his feelings align. he hasn't made his choice yet though, he knows who he likes but hasn't accepted himself yet so those arrows are down vs his last shirt his arrow points to Will.

this pocket is decorated, Argyle points out this shirt is a knockoff (Mikes not being his authentic self). its like hes trying to make it seem like is relationship is nice and decorated, that hes fine. that its all nice and pretty for others but not true to himself and his real feelings.

this pocket is interesting, the design is turned it doesn't line up at all but its the same design. something is off with the line up and their relationship. Mikes not being fully truthful so things aren't aligned. he can't say or write I love you bc the feelings aren't aligned in his heart and he knows it. hes still trying to pretend though, to be normal, which is why it's the same design just turned.

this pocket has an arrow that seems to point to Will often. not only that but it looks like an envelope (letters, from vs love Mike) and its a triangle (lgbt imagery). its almost like his heart has made its choice, the "love Mike" points to Will. also notice there's a button just like the end of s3 one (call back to the outfit where he didn't know who to chose, or what to feel), he knows who he's in love with and made his choice in his heart and mind already. that could explain why he looked almost pained to say I love you to El bc he knows he's in love with Will. (also speaking of this pocket it also ties into my Nancy Drew theory and my little pony/rainbow of light theory. I love when theories align)

idk I just found it interesting how Mikes pockets are and how often seems to have shirts with pockets when it involves his relationship with the love triangle and his feelings.

[bugsbenefit]

It’s because some of us can’t stand fanon mike he’s not will or el at the end of the day it’s not our fault the duffers already messed up his character arc long ago. some of us aren’t really interested in mike like that and to be frank I hate how much trauma people are putting on him as if he isn’t a privileged middle class *maybe cis maybe not* kid with insecurities cause he can’t play hero anymore like he used to. Fanon mike is retaliation to whatever we got the last two season from the character and I get it, but why are we keep acting like he’s important to vecna or the plot like that he’s just els boyfriend and wills crush at this point.

You don’t agree with this most likely but idc I’m just here to let this out for those who sympathize with mike. He’s genuinely not a interesting character and if Will wasn’t in love with him I wouldn’t look his way.

Hello? Will solo stan that doesn't get the show in My asks? more likely than you think

i'm sorry but you clearly sent this knowing i wouldn't agree with you and you don't sound like you want a conversation so... why did you send this? was it just to tell me there's people that don't care about Mike? because shockingly, i know that already, the influx in open Mike hate was why everyone doubled down on his character being important and purposeful last week in the first place

i'm genuinely confused on how you're watching the show, though. i mean, at least you're admitting you're only in it for Will so i guess you're aware of your bias and shortcomings?

also lmao sorry but *maybe cis maybe not*?? are you trying to say being queer in the midwest 80s in a small town with a conservative environment wasn't that bad or damaging or worth elaborating on because he's "probably cis" and the family is middle class? hello? newsflash just in, the queers need to stop complaining about how scared they are of coming out and potential consequences of it, if you're cis you're basically getting cishet privileges anyway. i'm really not sure what you meant to say here, you okay? also, aren't All the characters cis??

the vendetta you have against "fanon Mike" is fascinating tbh. what exactly is "fanon Mike" to you, bc the ask suggests it's just Mike with any motivations and 3dimensional writing orrrr? also thank you for telling me that Mike El and Will are separate characters! i almost forgot! i really needed the reminder that these extremely different characters aren't actually the same person or re-skins. thanks for your service, you really showed the evil Mike-sympathizers today o7

but you know what, sure, i'll indulge this a bit, i like talking about the show after all, you don't have to read this ofc, i feel like we're both aware we won't find common ground here

saying that Mike isn't important to the plot is batshit crazy sorry not sorry. not even talking about s5, it's just plain wrong in general and i'm assuming you haven't seen the show in ages

even right from the beginning Mike is established as the first MC and then proceeds to be the main pov for the entirety of s1. in universe Mike is the parties dm unofficial leader and according to Will "heart of the party", out of universe Mike is the only character that has established relationships and evolving conflicts with every single party member and even most adults like Hopper and Joyce. i don't know how you're watching the show to take away that Mike is unimportant and a support character

ST is an ensemble show and Mike is one of the characters, alongside El, Joyce and Will that consistently fills an MC role. (while also being one of the only ones to outright get referred to as one of the mains by actors and writers) where you got the idea from that Mike is a useless character people are stupid to care about is beyond me

if you're genuinely going into s5 hoping for Mike to be as unimportant and off-your-screen as possible i feel like you're setting yourself up for the disappointment of the century. i feel stupid just listing the reasons for why Mike is clearly going to be an important player in s5 because of how obvious they are but oh well

Mike is the first protagonist ever introduced and the final season that wants to go "full circle" Has to finish his arc satisfyingly for it to work

Mike is Will's love interest, a character that's already confirmed to be more of a main on screen again, so focusing on both parties of the ship is necessary to get them together

also Mike is still in a relationship? if he's supposed to go from dating El to suddenly dating a guy that's also his childhood bff you need to elaborate on his feelings. otherwise Will's romance is also going to fall flat and i'm sure you don't want that anon

Mike is part of the people that only came back to town after everything in s4 went down already and part of the group that seems to be the main focus in s5 (see the hill shot)

also just regarding the hill shot, Mike is center stage here (and also between his two "love interests"), totally accidental i'm sure

also the only character Will told about Vecna being alive in s4 and already swore to kill him with Will, also totally not a s5 set up don't worry

and before i go on here, aside from the writers themselves mentioning Mike as a main in multiple interviews David talked about the s5 mains a few days ago and Obviously Mike is up there along with El, Will and Joyce, exactly the people you'd expect

i don't understand how people are trying so hard to claim that there's nothing interesting about Mike to get into, as if even just s4 itself doesn't go out of it's way to set up an excess of potential conflict for s5

obvious relationship drama with El left hanging after an "i love you" monologue which we didn't see a response to yet

feelings for his best friend while he's still dating his gf

the unresolved painting lie

also the sexuality issue that comes with being queer/gay, that's been going back to s1. also made more severe by the show going out of it's way to repeatedly hammer home that the Wheelers are conservative and don't have close relationships with their kids

"you're the heart", speech about leading the party and bringing everyone together. he can't just face into the bg after Will gave him that talk, there needs to be payoff

the whole hellfire thing that's set up with the members names and faces being broadcast as "satanists" and the potential reason for everything that's been going on ON TV, sure that won't have any consequences am i right?

the Vecna plot itself, s4 makes it a point to have Will tell Mike and only Mike about Vecna being alive and the two of them agree to kill him right before the season ends

and that's just the obvious set ups s4 leaves us with, not even touching on the fact that Mike's pov has been withheld for essentially 2 seasons. which is something you can do and ignore, but only if the characters don't have anything going on during that time. Mike meanwhile changes drastically in these two seasons and we never get to learn what actually happened, why he's suddenly so set on growing up and getting gfs in s3, why he's suddenly such an uninterested bf in s4, why he suddenly feels weird about kissing El in the s3 finale after already having made out with her. there's a lot happening and we only see the fall out of it, we don't get Mike's pov. you call it "bad writing" but that's a picture book writing 101 set up, if you don't see that i don't know what to tell you

but i feel like you said everything already, i'm just rambling because i like talking. we probably won't find any common ground here. you only tolerate Mike because you like Will and that's that. not everyone has to care about every aspect of a show, however, i don't get why you're going to other blogs to tell them about your personal preference and about how you don't like one of the MCs. this is an ensemble show, it's not the El-show, and it's not the Will-show either, both of these takes are equally wrong

i don't know what the ideal s5 would look like to you, but if it turned out Will was the only important thing and the only character we focused on it would be absolute ass and horrible writing

Lucas just lost Max and left him with a shit ton of trauma, also Erica's gone through so much too. Max is still lost in a coma. El is distraught over not being able to save Max and now not find her anymore. Dustin just lost Eddie right in front of him too. there's a military presence in Hawkins now, the hellfire club fallout still hasn't happened, and so on and on. (also things like the "Nancy love triangle" still need time to be resolved too)

there's a lot s5 has to focus on to be a good wrap up for all these arcs. and yes, handling Mike's arc well is also part of that, shockingly

also ending this with a: you know people are allowed to like and care about character even if you don't give a shit about that character, right? claiming a central character with a ton of conflict set up isn't interesting is well withing your right and i won't change your mind on that, i'm aware, but going after people for actually caring about the conflicts the show is setting up isn't the move either. not everyone is obligated to share your views, especially when they're this far out there. and i feel like you knew that going in here

[chirpsythismorning]

With Birthdaygate pretty much confirmed, here are two moments from 4x02 Vecna's Curse that hit different...

(1) First we have Jonathan stopping Will as he goes into Rink-O-Mania to tell him something. Will turns around quickly and almost looks, dare I say, hopeful?

But why would that be the case? Unless of course there's something Will's waiting for Jonathan to say, that he hasn't said yet? Happy Birthday perhaps? Surprise Will! We didn't forget your birthday! We're coming in! We have a party planned and everything! Meet you inside! (interesting that there were birthday decorations in there as well...)

Unfortunately, all Jonathan does is tell Will that they'll be back to pick them up at 6:00. And so Will goes from sad, to hopeful, only to go back to looking sad again...

I think a lot of fans attributed Jonathan's concerned looks in this moment as him knowing about Will's feelings for Mike. And I do still think that's present, especially as he's telling Will they'll be there to pick them up later. In that specific moment he sounds sympathetic like Sorry buddy, that sucks.

However, the look Jonathan makes after Will turns away, as Argyle starts driving off, doesn't look like sympathy or pity from someone witnessing unrequited love. It looks like confusion and almost deja vu being experienced by Jonathan himself. As if he's forgetting something, but doesn't know what it is...

(2) Next is at the very end of Will and Mike's fight. Mike sort of echoes the same level of frustration he had during their rain fight, when he said It's not my fault you don't like girls. We know the scenes parallel each other, and how after both of those things are said, there's this silence that takes over, making clear that this is as far as they can go, otherwise they might risk hurting each other beyond fixing. We see both of them make faces of deep emotion here, because they probably are also being reminded of their fight last summer.

And so Will's options here were to, either (A) take it even further and risk hurting Mike more than he's hurting him, or (B) just don't say anything and let the argument end there before it gets beyond repair.

But the thing is, it almost looked like Will was going to say something. He quite literally mouths the word But-- only to cut himself off all together, looking defeated.

Here's what I think. THIS would have been the perfect moment for Will to say, But, you forgot my birthday, Mike. If it was genuinely something as simple as Mike and everyone simply forgetting and needing a reminder, without any supernatural implications involved, I think this would have been the moment to do it.

It would have also mirrored their rain fight even better because it would have been Will saying something and likely walking away, leading to Mike being like OH SHIT I have to fix this! I messed up.

But we all know it's not that simple.

As far as Will knowns, EVERYONE forgot his birthday, not just Mike. And so him calling out Mike here, might have felt slightly unjustified in that it wasn't just him who forgot.

It's almost like they're not the problem here, he is. (WILL POV ANGST)

That's what truly makes the scenes at Rink-O-Mania so heartbreaking. Because it wasn't just about Mike and El ignoring him, it was the fact that it was his literal birthday. All the most important people in his life, who used the literal memory of his birthday to bring him back bc they cared about him so much in the past, have now apparently forgot about him in the present.

Not to mention, the story not blatantly acknowledging his birthday being forgotten in the narrative of s4, means that it was framed this way bc the whole point was they only wanted it to be hinted at in s4, saving it as a surprise revelation in s5.

And so, if Will did say here, but Mike, you forgot my birthday, how would that have impacted the conflict in s4 and Vecna's plan as a whole, specifically for Will? All it would have taken was them connecting the dots after that, figuring out Vecna's plan before he could even reach Will, rendering s5 plotless?...

S5 is likely going to jump right into this, there's too much incriminating evidence about unused footage at the Rink-O-Mania location. It also fits with them not mentioning it in s4 if it's intended to be an early s5 revelation.

TBH with all the storylines going on in s4, them exploring the depths of Will's connection to Vecna just wasn't an option, bc they wouldn't have been able to do it justice. He needs to be front and center for that.

They're clearly saving the best for last...

[findafight]

I find Nancy and her relationships so interesting because I feel like the show makes everything way too simply mostly in favor for Nancy. Like the narrative automatically sides with her every time.

In s2, Jonathan shouldn't have encouraged her like that when she wanted to expose the lab. In s1, Jancy was on the same page, Jonathan wanted to find his brother, Nancy, her best friend, so they were working towards the same goal. In s2, Jon didn't have the desire to expose the lab. It's Nancy who is trapped in her guilt that turned into revenge that wanted to do something. Jon had positive experiences with the new lab and realistically wouldn't want to risk putting his mom and brother, who go there weekly, in danger. Especially after witnessing the whole problem, the gate and the vines spreading, he should have put a stop to it. Both didn't know about El being alive. The lab literally was the only thing that stood between the demise of Hawkins. They were the only people searching for a cure. Automatically, Jon should have pushed back bc Nancy wasn't thinking straight bc she was too wrapped up in her shit. Jonathan helping her accept Barb's death in a different way would have been more powerful and helpful bc Nancy still struggles with it after everything. Plus, I'm a believer that the lab would have searched her bag before, knowing she had plans to expose them.

I feel like when Nancy is in a relationship or even with friends, people always have to say yes to her with no pushback. If you push back, she just moves onto someone who will say yes. Robin was her yes man in s4 Jon in s2. In s3, he pushed back the slightest, and you see the conflict that came from it (financial struggles) was never truly resolved from Nancy's part. It carried over to s4 where Jon is afraid to tell her truth that he can't afford to go to college with her. Now, the show treats Jonathan as the villain for this without asking what caused him to lie to Nancy in the first place. It's also because the narrative lets Nancy be right. I think Steve was the only person in s4 who was a bit apprehensive with the plan, and yet this is treated as something bad, or he doesn't know what he is talking about. Or within the fandom people use his different opinion as proof he doesn't get Nancy, and look at Robin who just goes along and understands she's the best suited partner for her.

I feel like Nancy doesn't grow much personally throughout the series because she never gets truly challenged. And if she does, it's resolved in a way to her favor. Like, I think she needs someone who isn't a doormat who challenges her in a way that makes her realize she has to change her behavior in certain situations. I will forever mourn the plot s4 could have gotten if they made Robin into the person who would challenge Nancy. Both girls are smart. If Robin was the driving force in the investigation god, that would already set Nancy off.

oh yeah, the show sort of hands Nancy relationships on a silver platter and we never see her actually put in effort towards them? and this prohibits Nancy from growing more than she could! It doesn't let Nancy be wrong let alone admit she's wrong. We see Mike apologize to Will, and Steve apologize to Dustin, we see Robin and Steve have back and forth and Steve trying to get robin a gf, and we see El and Max spend time together talking and getting to know each other. we see them interacting in a way that we see there is a push and pull.

But we see Nancy and Jonathan fall into bed together, Jonathan supporting Nancy's (ill-advised, even if the show won't admit it because that would mean saying Steve was right) plan to expose the lab. I think your point about Jonathan not having a reason to do that is super interesting because you're right! we know the lab is sketchy as hell, but to Jonathan they're the reason Will went missing, but also the reason they got him back. Will's been getting treatment or tests done there for nearly a year by that point, and while Jon may be distrustful of the Lab, wanting to take away the only official support his family has for what they went through doesn't make sense. What were they expecting to happen to the MASSIVE ALTERNATE DIMENSION GATE if the lab shut down? (why did owens show them lmao. why weren't they searched?) it makes no sense and just reinforces the idea that Steve had a point. I think if they had been able to have the library conversation not in public, then maybe he could have worked something out to help Nancy but alas. They didn't and people just point ot it as Steve dismissing Nancy and pretending everything is fine (when Nancy was also doing that!!)

When Jonathan does resist Nancy's idea (which isn't even UD related she just wanted to prove herself to misogynistic jerks) because financially his family needs him to have a job, and him having a job working in a field he likes and enjoys is a best case for him to get better work out of hawkinis/into uni, and honestly Jon had a sweet gig because he didn't mind the work, it was good job experience, and it would look good on a college application.

While Nancy is right that they shouldn't treat her with mockery, I can't help but think it's...incredibly naive of her? She was an intern. She wasn't going to get anything other than interviewing people for fluff pieces if she got anything other than typing/gofering to begin with. It's frustrating because living in a sexist world you do have to pick your battles. She has no power there, because she's an intern and replaceable and a teenager. It's just not realistic to me that she would think she would get anywhere or get away with trying to follow the rabies rat lead. (which is also...a boring story like oooh rat rabies? in a town where whole fields of pumpkins rotted on the vine? Very much an excuse to inset Jonathan and Nancy into the plot [season 3 is a mess and the best thing from it is robin and scoops troop which tbh makes up for it imo]) Like she could be mad and frustrated and insulted and humiliated, let her rant about that!! about her powerlessness! That's interesting and heartbreaking because there really isn't anything to do but quit then. but idk what she thought she was going into in a male dominated field in her podunk town. Not blaming her just think that writing decision should have been thought through more.

Her fight with Jonathan actually kinda made me think jancy was interesting for a second because yes!! those are real conflicting issues and priorities!! That's relationship conflict that's real and natural for the characters to have! and misunderstanding!! and then Nancy's mom (ew) gives her a speech when it's like bro. you're owed an apology but you also owe Jonathan one if you want to repair and strengthen your relationship. So she never apologizes and jon gives a half-assed apology and then they never have to talk about it again because the UD is here and that's more important!! It's another place where Nancy's development stalled and it's frustrating because it also makes Jonathan more of a doormat (sorry Jon you've been done so dirty)

their s4 conflict is so stupid to me. It goes both ways like damn Nancy if you missed your boyfriend whose family is notoriously broke maybe you should go visit him? or talk to him? It's an issue for both of them (I think it's really weird that people bring up steve's RV dream and wanting Nancy beside him to shit on Stancy but barely bring up the fact that Jonathan [admittedly in a catastrophizing spiral, but one might also think Steve, having been half eaten and going into a situation that could kill him, was also not in his most steady of mind] assumed Nancy would drop everything to be with him in California (after saying she's incredibly ambitious) and they'd have kids etc? idk it's just that both mentioned kids but only Steve mentioned his own experience with taking care of kids, wheras Jon is using that as part of his excuse for lying to her...) Jonathan lying is obviously a problem. He's "slow-mo breaking up with Nancy" and that's an issue he's got, but we only see Nancy stressed about it but also not...really do anything about it? idk we don't get to see her fight for her relationship with a boy she supposedly loves! Why not? Why can't we see Nancy's stubbornness and pride and ambition turned in the direction of saving her relationship with Jonathan? Instead of him just coming back to Hawkins and them still being a bit awkward around each other, him lying, her having been flirting with Steve for a week. Like. Why didn't we see her pull him aside and go "okay I love you. We're obviously having issues and it's absolutely not the best time but I can't take not talking to you and feeling like we're drifting!"

With the whole plan at the end of s4...yeah. The narrative/show can't let Nancy be wrong and/or Steve be right. It also needed a plan that would fail. So we get Steve pushing against the plan, treated like he's being irrational for it, and then it failing. As for Nancy needing to be challenged...I mean yeah? but also I think a key part of what she wants from romo relationships is to not be challenged! She doesn't like when her boyfriends push back against her ideas/plans, and ignores them anyways. Which is why it's so frustrating that there have been opportunities for the writers to let Nancy be wrong and learn and grow and they just...don't. They validate her decisions even if they make no sense.

And the thing is...Robin is Thee driving force in their investigation. she gets it right again and again and is the reason the connection to music is even made, But for some reason I feel like the show treats it as another Nancy Investigation Success instead of Nancy being the one that was just kinda there and also a bit mean to robin for no reason other than jealousy. The opportunity for Robin to be a challenge to Nancy's authority was there! It was there and all they would've had to do was have Robin not suck up to Nancy, have the show/narrative acknowledge it was Robin who was the reason the got any information beyond the name Victor Creel, and have Nancy realize that she isn't infallible and right all the time. It would have been so good to see her take stock and reconsider herself and her decisions and her relationships and want to make a friendship with Robin, who wouldn't be co-operative.

[grapesodatozier]

hmm. okay this is super incoherent but I’m thinking about how el loves romance movies with dramatic love confessions, and mike was raised by two parents who don’t love each other but pretend like they do, and I’m thinking about how that affects their love languages and communication styles and what they think love looks like.

because el has learned to see love as big, sweeping, clear statements of love, the word love itself. but mike has seen that you can call something love without that actually meaning anything, and so to him what love actually is is what you do for others, and that’s his love language. when he says, “I say it,” he says it so surely; it’s not a lie, mikes a bad liar. he does say it, just not with words like el does, like el has come to expect from the movies she watches.

which is also really interesting bc she shows love through action so much, but she doesn’t see herself as doing that, she sees it as what she has to do, when everything she does is a way of saying “I love you” without saying it.

mike doesn’t think she’s incredible bc of her powers, he thinks she’s incredible bc of what she does with them, and he has always been the first person to give that type of love right back to her. he is the first to protect her every season: to shelter and feed her, to come up with a distraction for the demodogs, to tell her she doesn’t need to constantly be putting herself at risk for others, to ask for a new plan that doesn’t hurt her. even the little things, like writing letters and hand picking her flowers in her favorite colors and bringing her breakfast. that is how he shows his love for her, and why I think he sounds so solid and honest and serious when he tells her, “I say it,” even when he can’t say it say it

anyway I’m just having some half-formed thoughts about mike trusting actions over words bc of his parents but el needing words bc she can’t see her own actions as the acts of love that they are bc of how she sees herself. with a dash of hollywood influence from the (black and white both literally and metaphorically) romance movies she watched and mimicked in s2

I just think that’s such a real, complex conflict, and I’m actually really impressed with that conversation/argument. but idk maybe it’s not that deep lol (((it’s at least a little deep tho lbr)))

[little-cereal-draws]

Button House dog rescue au pt 2

Alison and Mike turn Button House into a dog rescue instead of an event hall and the ghosts are the dogs they have. Just some headcanons abt how their life would be. Read pt 1 first for this to make sense

pt 1 pt 3

"bath time" is an all day activity that is also a fully body work out. Some of the smaller dogs like Fanny and Kitty are able to get baths in the sink and are the easiest to do. Fanny looks like a demon when her fur is wet and glares at everybody the whole time. Kitty will cry at the beginning but if she can take one of her toys with her, she usually forgets and has a great time

the medium to large sized dogs get to go in the bathtub (but not the Cooper's personal one). Whenever Mike bathes Julian he wears his swimsuit bc Julian has so much fun splashing around that the entire room is going to be soaked by the end. They have to keep the towels in the hall so they don't get wet too. The Captain hates bathtime and will do anything to avoid it. He usually ends up trying to hide somewhere but is never any good at it. Multiple times, Alison's found him just standing in the corner, tucking his head against the wall. He tries to climb out of the bath every two seconds so you have to use one hand to keep him in and use the other to wash him. He cries the whole time. Humphrey just sits down in the warm water and goes to sleep. It's like a nice relaxing spa. A few times Alison has come in asking what's taking so long and he's gone to sleep in Mike's hand. Mike doesn't want to wake him up so he just has to hold his head until he wakes up by himself

Robin's too big for the tub and just gets hosed down outside. He doesn't particularly enjoy it and will try to walk away if he can. Whoever's holding him in place also gets hosed down by proximity. The other dogs love to run through the hose and try to bite the water which can make this process take even longer

unfortunately, a lot of the dogs they have now are herding dogs (Pat, Thomas, and the Captain) and they will try to herd the other dogs, Alison, and Mike. There have been a few particularly disastrous occasions where all three of them had conflicting ideas on where the group should go and pushed them back and forth until everyone on the inside was confused and terrified of what was going on. The easiest targets are Mary, Humphrey, and Kitty but occasionally Julian will find himself lumped in too. Despite his tiny size, only Pat's brave enough to go after Robin and will nip at his heels until he listens. (Corgis are used to herd things ten times their size like cows and horses so he's not scared of a big dog like Robin at all. When it comes to herding, corgis fear no man and no god)

Alison took them on a fieldtrip once to a farm that had a bunch of actual sheep for them to herd and it was the best day of their lives. As they pulled up and saw the sheep, there were so many happy tippytaps and butt wags. Getting them out of the car was probably the hardest because they kept wanting to run over there right this instant!! The Captain especially; Alison had to say, "No, Captain, we're going to wait and we're going to stay" like twenty times which was a very disappointing number for him. She even had to push his butt down to get him to sit when it wasn't his turn which was very embarrassing… but how could he be expected to listen and follow orders when there were real live actual sheep right there, Alison!? He kept creeping forward one inch at a time when he thought she wasn’t looking

when it was Thomas' turn to herd them he was pretty good except he kept stopping to check if Alison was watching every five seconds. She was but he just had to make sure again

Robin has a bad habit of chasing birds and rabbits. Usually it's just for fun and he has no intention of doing anything when he catches up but on several occasions, he has killed them and brought them back to the house. He gets in huge trouble every time he does tho so he doesn’t do it super often. Alison and Mike try to figure out a way to use the meat either for their own food or the dogs’ so it doesn’t go completely to waste

Unfortunately, as they adjust more to being normal dogs, Julian and occasionally the Captain join Robin in these hunts. Julian is always very proud of himself when he catches something and doesn’t mind being yelled at. The Captain hates it so he usually lets whatever animal he’s chasing get away

Mike buys a remote control car and all the dogs chase it around the lawn. It’s a madhouse every time he gets it out. Robin, Julian, and surprisingly Mary are always in front followed by Thomas, Pat, and Kitty. The Captain tries his best and can stay near the front of the pack if he really wants to but because of his bad hips, he can only do it for short bursts before he has to lay down. Fanny never runs after it but loses her mind barking from the side. Humphrey tried to chase it the first few times they got it out but wasn’t able to sprint across the lawn at nearly the same speed with his little doggy wheel mobility aid and got left behind every time. He lost interest after he decided he would never catch it and just lays around while the others run now

Once Mike didn’t see him laying in the grass and ran the car right into his ribs. The Coopers will never forget the horrible yelp he let out. Mike held him and apologized the whole ride to the vet. Luckily nothing had broken but they did have to ice his ribs for a week. Mike felt so bad and gave him extra treats for a month. Humphrey wasn’t complaining lol

Mary likes to snuggle now. She didn’t used to when she first came but now she’ll try to climb in Alison’s lap crushing Fanny, Kitty, and usually Thomas in the process. She doesn’t understand she’s too big to be a lap dog. Alison moves her off and as long as she keeps petting her head, Mary will accept that

Pat follows Mike around the kitchen and “cleans the floor” as he cooks. He’s always too fast and close to the floor for Mike to grab the food before he can eat it. Mike's given up and will sometimes “accidentally drop” food he knows Pat particularly likes like cheese, tiny pieces of bacon, or eggs. This has to stay their little secret tho bc Alison will not be happy if she finds out

Kitty loves trying to play with Robin but Robin only notices she’s there abt half of the time. Their height difference is ridiculous and if Alison didn’t know Robin so well, she would worry that he’s going to accidentally step on her

Julian has peed in the house multiple times (he’s a jerk) but bc of the sheer number of dogs in the house, they can’t pin it on him for sure. He’s really good at acting innocent unlike Mary who looks guilty as soon as anyone's voice raises even if they're not even talking to her. Alison is suspicious of him but doesn’t have enough evidence and she’s determined to catch him one day

Alison balanced Fanny on Robin's back once. She looked terrified and started shaking with fear immediately. That was the end of that adventure

[nowmemoriees]

ok i think i need to say this now bc this 'war' between bylers and milevens is just stupid. there's a lot of facts both sides are misunderstanding just to defend their fav shipps, so let's review them.

in seasons 1-2, Mike DID love Eleven. bylers can not deny it. but it was a kids love, specially protective. it wasn't "first sight love" either. at first Mike's priority was finding Will, and he saw a way to find him in El, while she saw a way to be safe from the "bad guys" in Mike.

But they did care a lot about each other, too much maybe, together, they learned what love was. but, being honest, el wasn't ready for a relationship. i mean, cmon, she could barely talk.

through seasons 2-4 she needed to find herself. to find out about her identity, her family and abilities. Max helped a lot on season 3. and it's here where everything changes.

Will is definitely in love with Mike in seasons 3-4. it's not a crush, he loves him. he wants Mike to be happy even if that means sacrificing his own feelings (as we saw in the van scene, where he used his real feelings on El's behalf to encourage Mike)

I think seasons 1-2 are also the starting point for byler development, but in a 'friends to lovers' way, unlike mileven, that was shown as a 'first sight love'

Mike really cared about Will in the first two seasons. In season one, his priority was to find and save him. In the second one, protect him. (Will was already falling in love at this point)

S1= Mike spent his time protecting El, while he was thinking/worrying about Will

S2= Mike spent his time protecting Will, while he was thinking/worrying about El.

And it's all about this. For Mike it has always been one or the other.

And this is why everything changes in season 3.

They were all together now, so Mike had to choose who spend his time with. His friends, or his girlfriend. Will started to complain about this, bc mike didn't necessarily have to choose between one or the other, but he did. He pushed Will away even knowing he was the reason for everything they have been through the last two years.

On this season Mike had conflicts with both El and Will. He really tried to solve both of them, but it was way easier for him to apologize to Will first. He realised then, that he didn't fully know El, she did not even fully know herself until she dumped Mike. Meanwhile, he had known Will basically all his life.

This caused some confusion, but it was paused because the group had bigger problems to solve.

After the battle, many things had to change. Will and El were moving to California together, they were going to be siblings now.

During the farewell scene, Mike's confusion was so noticeable.

When El told Mike she loved him too, and then kissed him, he didn't even answer or close his eyes, he just stayed like this 🕴

But, when Will told him he wasn't going to join another party, he seemed really happy about it, even knowing it was a really sad moment for both of them.

After this, he went back home and... this parallel happened. In both scenes he thought he had lost (or was losing) Will.

What an interesting season finale.

Then we finally got s4, fkn god i just love this season.

We have :

Will definitely and obviously still in love with Mike, but hopeless.

Eleven back on her way to find herself, but still dating Mike.

Will, Jonathan and El being now 'siblings'

When Mike arrives to California, we saw how he rejected will's hug. It was weird, because they were supposed to be in 'good terms'.

Mike gave all of his attention to Eleven, but he never said 'I love you' to her, even when El was begging for him to say it. The only person that could get mike to tell eleven that he loves her was Will.

But, we also had a Byler discussion at the rink-o-mania, where Mike complains about Will being a douche and distant. So, Will also complains to Mike saying that he only called him a couple of times.

In episode 8, we discovered Mike did try to call, but the phone line was always busy. Will wasn't ignoring his calls, and Mike didn't forget about Will. But they both misunderstood the situation.

They didn't communicate their feelings very well. That's why their relationship was so awkward.

We also discovered Mike likes being a protector, he likes to be needed, and that's the main (and maybe the only) reason he keeps dating El.

Will gave his painting to Mike. The painting he has worked on for months, the painting he didn't want to show Eleven. He used that painting to save Mike and El's relationship. Even with Mike's monologue (impulsed by Will), it wasn't enough for El. Both El and Mike knew it was not the same anymore.

After the lost battle, Eleven didn't talk to Mike even after he told her what she wanted to hear.

I don't wanna talk so much about s4 because its the main topic on social media rn so i think its unnecesary to remark al the byler development we had this season, but we have to remark these important aspects and clues to have into account for s5.

Mike still hasn't realised Will's painting wasn't El's idea.

This two scenes were PERFECTLY planned and scripted by the duffer brothers. (Last scene took a whole day to be recorded because the details had to be perfect)

i want to say my conclussion anyways.

Byler has a big chance of being endgame, even if the public doesn't like this idea. It is not a forced couple, it has been slowly developing since season 1.

Eleven deserves to find herself, be in peace and be happy, without worrying about being loved by a boy or fighting a monster.

So does Will.

Byler IS not just a great 'plot twist', it has been planned to be like this since the beggining of the show.

[seraphtrevs]

So what did Mike mean when he whispered “do it” when Nacho freed himself in 6x03? It’s really hard to say. We don’t get much more of Mike’s POV after Nacho’s story concludes. He and Gus never speak about Nacho’s fate on camera, and I’d argue they probably never spoke about it off camera either. (I mean, what was there to say, really? They did a horrible thing that I’m sure both of them wanted to forget.) That means we don’t have a lot of canon clues about what he might have meant when he said "do it."

Given that it’s so ambiguous, I don’t think that anyone can actually “prove” one way or the other what Mike was thinking, but I’ve finally come up with an answer that makes sense to me, and it revolves around Mike’s complicated and nuanced relationship with Gus.

I remember a lot of speculation while BCS season 5 was airing about when we’d finally get the background for Mike and Gus’s relationship in BrBa – one marked by mutual respect, admiration, and loyalty. But…is that actually the relationship we were shown in BrBa? I used to think so, by I’m not so sure anymore. Instead, I think that Mike’s relationship with Gus has always been marked by a deep ambivalence, even before BCS was written.

Before I dive in, I want to be clear I’m NOT saying that there are no positive feelings between the two of them. From the beginning, Gus has respect for Mike’s skills. In return, Mike respects Gus’s professionalism. He admires Gus for not being capricious, pigheaded, and egotistical the way most cartel bosses are. What really won him over was when he learned Gus’s motivation was justice for his loved one, not just the pursuit of money and power (although Gus was still definitely interested in money and power – after all, he pursued a career in drug dealing before Max’s death, which is what got Max killed in the first place). He likes that Gus doesn’t micromanage him, allowing him the freedom to do his job his way. But most of all, he likes the obscene amount of money Gus pays him.

Because when push comes to shove, Mike is in the drug business to make money for Kaylee. I don’t think he feels any personal loyalty to Gus outside of their working relationship. In fact, he feels extremely conflicted about working for Gus.

When Gus slits Victor’s throat in BrBa 4x01, Mike reacts by pulling a gun on Gus. It’s clearly a reflexive response to the sudden violence, and you could argue that it doesn’t necessarily mean anything about his feelings towards Gus. You could even argue that in that split second, he got confused and thought Victor was attacking Gus, and he was actually pulling the gun on Victor. But I think the easier explanation is that he was as scared as everyone else in that room about what Gus might do, and he pulled that gun on Gus to defend himself.

When Walt comes to him in 4x02 with his plan to kill Gus, Mike responds by beating him up. One explanation is that he is outraged by Walt’s suggestion to kill the man he has pledged his loyalty to and has devoted his life to protecting. But another explanation is that Walt was giving voice to the same thoughts he himself was struggling with. We don’t really know much about Mike and Victor’s relationship, but at the very least Mike seemed to think of him as a loyal and competent goon. After all, Victor is the literal guy in the “you are not the guy” speech—a guy Mike valued and is angry about losing. The expression on his face when Gus kills Victor is one of shock and dismay.

Victor is the third person (that we know of) who Gus deemed disposable, not because they betrayed him in any way, but because Gus cares more about tying up loose ends than the lives of the people who work for him. Werner, Nacho, and Victor all did as Gus asked them to. Werner and Victor made mistakes that were not malicious towards Gus in intent—Werner went AWOL for a vacation with his wife, and Victor made the mistake of being seen when he was trying his best to be a good and loyal servant to Gus. Once Gus started to blackmail Nacho, Nacho never once tried to weasel his way out of it, other than begging Mike to intervene on his behalf. Which Mike does, and his pleas for Nacho’s life fall on deaf ears.

So what must Mike be thinking when Walt confronts him in the bar? Is he really feeling an abundance of loyalty to Gus in that moment? Or did Walt’s idea hit a little to close to something he himself had considered—a thought he knows is stupid and reckless because no one goes up against Gus and survives. He beats Walt to teach him a lesson that it’s a stupid, dangerous idea—and maybe to remind himself of that fact, too.

Flash forward to Gus’s death—Mike tears back into New Mexico in a rage and threatens to kill Walt. Jesse talks him down, and then Mike agrees that they need to work together to eliminate the evidence that ties them all to Gus’s criminal empire. But once that evidence is erased, Mike could have chosen to never have anything to do with Walt again. Instead, he goes back to Walt when he learns that all of the money he had set aside for Kaylee is being held up indefinitely by the cops, and that he has nothing to pay the men who worked under him for their continued loyalty and silence—because Mike actually does care about “his guys” and feels honor-bound to take care of them.

If Mike’s reaction to Gus’s death was based mostly in grief, does it really make sense that he would willingly work with Gus’s killer? And right before Walt kills him, Mike rails against him about how they had “a good thing, you stupid son of a bitch—we had Fring, we had a lab, we had everything we needed, and it ran like clockwork.” He says, “If you’d done your job and known your place, we’d all be fine right now.” What he doesn’t say is “you killed a good man” or “you killed my friend.” He is angry about the money they lost when Gus’s empire fell apart after his death. Maybe he focuses on business in the moment because he’s a reserved guy and doesn’t want to divulge his true feelings to the likes of Walt. But at the same time—I think it’s telling that in a moment of losing his temper, the grief he expresses is for the lost money, not Walt’s murder of Gus.

So, keeping this in mind, let’s go to BCS 6x03. After Mike pleads with Gus to spare Nacho’s life, Gus decides instead to have him killed. I can’t say for sure, but I’m almost positive that from the beginning, Gus planned on having Nacho killed as soon as he outlived his usefulness. But it was news to Mike. He really thought that Gus would spare Nacho, because after the assassination attempt, he offers to pick Nacho up. But Gus says no. He’s always viewed Nacho as trash, and it’s time to throw the trash away. Nacho did everything Gus asked of him, but he was doomed from the start.

And why does Gus hate Nacho so much? Did Nacho betray him or attack him in some way? No. He hates Nacho because Nacho tried to kill a man Gus wanted to kill himself.

Mike goes along with it, because Gus is his boss. He frames Nacho, knowing that this will lead to Nacho’s death. Nacho is being punished for keeping up his end of the bargain. This doesn’t sit well with Mike at all. Another thing weighing on Mike in this moment is Gus’s treatment of Nacho’s father, an innocent man. Gus was planning on having Nacho’s dad hurt or killed in order to gain Nacho’s compliance. This is a step too far for Mike, who goes against Gus for once and pledges to protect Manuel from him. It’s only Nacho’s phone call that stops the standoff—what would have happened if Nacho hadn’t offered himself? Would Gus have killed Mike to get to Nacho’s dad? Would Mike have killed Gus to defend him?

So Nacho agrees to die. Before his death, Gus orders Mike to beat Nacho bloody, a man young enough to be his son. Mike cares about Nacho and feels protective of him. This goes against everything that’s left of Mike’s moral code, but he goes through with it anyway, at least in part because it’s what Nacho wants. Nacho wants to die to protect his father from the mistakes that he’s made. It’s an honorable decision.

Mike doesn’t always behave honorably, but it’s clear that honor is something that preoccupies him. One of his biggest regrets about his son’s death is that he died dishonored. He took dirty money because his dad told him to, and he was killed anyway. Because of Mike’s advice, his son died dirty. But here’s Nacho, facing death with the kind of honor he taught his son, even if those lessons were hypocritical given Mike’s own history as a dirty cop.

Matty was executed by two criminal cops who cared more about covering their own asses than they did about the life of his son. Nacho is not Matty—he’s a criminal who made his own bed. But Nacho is also being executed as an ass-covering exercise. It’s dishonorable. It’s cruel. It’s cowardly.

So in that moment, Mike has his gun out to carry out his part in Nacho’s execution. I think that the only reason he can even stomach it is that this was Nacho’s plan as much as it was Gus’s. He could tell himself he was doing the best thing he could by offering Nacho a clean death, just like he told himself he did what he could for Werner by offering him the same thing. But that has to feel like a weak justification. He works for Gus, a criminal, to enrich himself. Sure, it’s to provide for Kaylee, but he’s still killing people for money, and he hates himself for it.

But then Nacho decides to fight back—something that Matty never got to do. When Nacho puts a gun to Bolsa’s head, Mike whispers, “do it.” It seems to me like he wants Nacho to pull the trigger and kill Bolsa. But why? Mike doesn’t have any vendetta against Bolsa, so that’s not the reason. And even if Nacho kills Bolsa, it isn’t going to save him. Victor or Tyrus or the twins would immediately start shooting, which means that Nacho would most likely be killed anyway. And even if Nacho somehow miraculously escaped, Gus would still want him dead. Since Mike works for Gus, Mike would likely be in charge of hunting Nacho down and killing him. So it doesn’t really make sense for Mike to be rooting for Nacho to kill Bolsa…

…unless Mike was looking for an excuse to get out of this business that is killing the last shred of decency he has inside him. Mike is working for Gus because he wants money to provide for Kaylee…but maybe he’s also working for Gus because he doesn’t see a way out. Maybe if Nacho decided to fight back, Mike would have changed his mind about where his loyalties lie and choose to protect Nacho by killing Gus and the Salamancas instead.

Or maybe not. But it kind of makes you think.

[aemiron-main]

mike is so gentle with will + has the “will voice,” YES, but also: will byers is so gentle with mike wheeler.

like yes they have their conflicts!! absolutely!! but will is also just so gentle with him and gives mike the space to open up but also enough comfort and enough presence to be vulnerable and put himself out there emotionally without being left to flounder. it’s a mixture of freedom/non-judgment and reassuring support. like he makes mike feel So Safe even though Mike still feels anxiety around Will sometimes bc of his feelings for him, will is STILL able to make mike feel safe!!

like the thing is, people like karen having tried to give mike the SPACE and the OPPORTUNITY to open up, but she hasn’t given him the SUPPORT. Mike doesn’t open up to karen not because he doesn’t have the space or opportunity persay (although that space/opportunity doesn’t come often and in s2 hes shut down when he tries to open up), but rather, because he doesn’t feel safe doing it even when he DOES have the opportunity.

will though?? he’s just so Gentle with mike and gives mike the space and support and safety to open up and process his own emotions!! like that scene in Jonathan’s bedroom and mike’s fidgeting always reminds me of luring out a scared animal!! Will lures out mike with kindness and gentleness and support!! and even when mike’s tense and hunched over, trying to make himself physically smaller, a physical representation of his own repression via his posture, trying to hide his heart away from the world, Will still manages to coax him into relaxing a bit and opening up!! he gets mike to smile!!

they just!! They care about eachother So Much.

[i-got-bad-knees]

Some notable moments from the show (an evening with Bob Odenkirk, guest hosted by David Baddiel) on Monday:

Mike was created because Bob couldn’t shoot a fourth ep due to HIMYM conflicting, he commented that it ended up making a lot more sense because “Saul would never move a body”

Said Saul’s only real “human” (Jimmy) moments in BrBa in his opinion were 1. When he tries to encourage Jesse to go talk to Andrea and Brock rather than waiting in the car, he said “there’s no incentive or benefit for Saul, he won’t make any money and it’s a risk for Jesse to be seen” (imo Jimmy more than Saul speaks to Brock and Andrea anyway) and 2. When he’s telling Walt to just quit while he’s ahead, because “Saul doesn’t care, he doesn’t care if this guy dies or if he’s family dies, why should he?”

Said the Saul hair (“combover on top, mullet in the back”) was his idea after reading the script

His agent apparently told him “please do not say no” to breaking bad and his response was “well I’m gonna” and he turned to us and continued “because that’s how I am, I’m difficult”

The first scene he shot was the Walt and Jesse in the desert scene, he said it was during a sandstorm which didn’t pick up on camera but every time they opened their mouths they were full of sand.

The desert scene with Mike took 14 “gruelling” days to shoot, out in the ABQ desert.

They had a snake wrangler on to clear any areas they were filming in (and obtain a snake if one was needed) but during the desert trek they didn’t come across a single snake in the entire 14 days and the wrangler said it was because it was too hot. For the desert snakes.

His heart attack occurred during the Lalo/mcwexler confrontation scene in the final season, and parts of it are from after his recovery months later. It’s been said a lot, but hearing Bob personally say out loud that he was “out” for 15 minutes and that his training for Nobody saved his life (which he explained how and why in detail) was Wild. I lost my dad due to heart complications, I’m really glad he was able to pull through.

David didn’t know about the heart attack, he was taken aback and stated Bob looked “damn good” and we all applauded

He essentially confirmed that Kim likes Jimmy because she’s also insane. He said it in a very roundabout way (“they’re both damaged, weird loners” and “she hides it better but she was more into it than him at times” lmao) but that was the gist.

Credits Giancarlo Esposito as perhaps the best actor he’s ever worked with and spoke about the wine bar scene for a good 5 minutes. The women behind me whispered “Gus is gay” during this.

Said the first time he met David Cross the man turned up to his home holding a basketball (at around 27 years old) asking if Bob wanted to play. He replied that he’d just made a sandwich.

He’s a huge Monty Python nerd and kept speaking about it at lengths during random intervals. Someone in the audience shouted that he was saying “Python” wrong (because he’s, ya know, American and says it with an American accent) and he attempted to say it “properly”. He could say Python, he could not say Monty. He thought Python was spelt Pythun, though.

He then did the same when David said Ree-ah instead of Ray for Rhea’s name lmao

He said “I might be slow but I’m not stupid” and briefly chanted “slow is not stupid!”

Apparently hates parody comedy (doesn’t care enough about popular culture. Relatable)

Didn’t expand on it much (because Baddiel hadn’t finished the series before literally interviewing the main actor) but said one of his favourite scenes is the breakup scene, and that he loved when Saul was thrown in the trash, saying “he deserves it”

Told Vince to “beat the shit out of this guy” (JimmySaul) in bcs

Enjoys shooting in difficult locations or circumstances (man likes to suffer for his art ig lmao)

When asked about the piss drinking scene, stated “I refused to drink my own piss, I’m fed up of the taste, so I had the whole crew mix a little of their piss into the bottle so it was a complete mystery” did not explain what was actually in the piss jugs

His wife was just offstage the whole time which was very sweet

Called the Trumps the worst family in America

Didn’t think we have Marmite in the UK. It’s literally British aksjdhekdjf

David Baddiel doesn’t know about Dr Suess. Not relevant to Bob but wth.

Bob said he’s nothing like Saul/Jimmy many times and the central reason he said so is because “Saul needs everybody to like him, Jimmy just wants the respect and admiration of his brother, and I don’t care, I just wanna make myself happy”

His favourite show is BBCs Royle Family

We could submit questions during interval and he answered a couple, one was “do you eat at Cinnabon” to which he replied “no, I had a heart attack” lmao. Baddiel was surprised Cinnabon was a real place.

We all got a free copy of his book (tho apparently he didn’t know?) with our tickets so that’s cool. Will be reading in the next 5-60 months

He got 3 people up on stage to read him questions he’d written and one woman, Claire, was absolutely amazing and actually successfully matched Bob’s stage presence and energy when reading this (hilarious) script he gave her. The others did great too but Claire is the MVP of the evening

Right near the start he said the word cunt. I was thrilled.

[aurorabyler]

okay, let me rephrase a bit. i absolutely love public speaking and am preeeeetty confident talking in front of big groups of ppl so i feel like i should take the opportunity to speak at the panel if given the chance. however, let me be absolutely clear on one thing: if i ask finn anything it WILL NOT be about ships.

i’m way more curious about mike’s direction this season and how finn interprets mike’s arc throughout the whole show + the conflict he seems to be going through internally especially through seasons 3 and 4.

i’m curious about mike’s insecurities and how his relationships in the show with EVERYONE has evolved as he has changed.

i’m interested in behind the scenes anecdotes bc i just love learning about how much fun they have on set :)

i want to know how he interprets mike joining hellfire after being so adamant that dnd wasn’t for him anymore in season 3

there’s so much about mike that we don’t know and literally have to leave up to theory because it’s deliberately hidden from us. i know finn can’t say much but he’s such a smart and wonderful actor and creative mind and i’d love to know his thoughts on all of these things and more :)

[bxmgzz]

What happened between Will and Mike in that year?

I know a lot of people were wondering why Mike was being a complete idiot at the airport. What happened that they drifted apart in a year if they were okay before Will leave? Why did everything become so uncomfortable?

I know many had the theory that maybe Mike in that year had realized his feelings for Will and others thought that maybe he was jealous of the subject of the painting, but I think that same doubt solves it for us in the chapter 8.

At the van scene during his indirect confession to Mike, Will tells him that he was trying to pushing him away for fear of losing him. And when they fight on the roller rink on Vol. 1 Mike tells Will something like "Maybe you should have come closer. Why am I the bad guy?" Then in Will's room when he apologizes, Mike tells Will that he felt he had lost him.

Connecting the 3 points leads me to think that probably Will was the first to step away, maybe not stop writing or anything so drastic but maybe in the few times they spoke it was a little further away for fear of proving their feelings. Then Mike took it the wrong way, maybe he got angry to believe that Will no longer wanted to talk to him like before and cut the communication completely, which led to a series of misunderstandings between the two that only magnified the problem.

Will tries to be more distant and "push away" Mike for fear of losing him → Mike misinterprets and gets angry, cuts communication and doesn't hug him at the airport → Will feels bad about this and has been proving it all day → Mike misinterprets the situation again because he doesn't know Will's feelings and believes his behavior duringand the day is because he doesn't even want to be near him anymore.

Mike doesn't know about Will's feelings and at in a time like the 80's when the topic was not talked about + growing up in a conservative family the most feasible thing for him was that Will would no longer want to be his friend, while Will was just trying to hide his feelings for fear. I'm not really Mike defender, especially because he has a lot of behaviors that bother me but I think in this particular conflict neither of they has the guilt.

Basically, the two are silly people with a lack of communication who fear losing each other by expressing themselves openly. It's not that Mike was suddenly rude bc he was jealous or out of nowhere, they're just two teenagers who care too much about each other and try to get over that with how little they know.

"It's just that this year was hard, hawkins it's no the same without you... and I don't know maybe I feel like I lost you or something."

"If I was rude to you or it seemed like I was pushing you away it's because I'm scared of losing you, just like you're scared of losing me"

[mike-wheeler-faggotry]

no bc the more i think about it the confession was Not the thing that mike was planning to explain to el, because it directly contradicts the conversation with will on top of the car. like “sometimes it’s scary to open up to people like that. to say how you really feel. especially to the people you care about the most… because what if they don’t like the truth?" yes, will is projecting his own experience here, but it’s equally important to note that mike agrees. and it’s not just casual agreement—they use a close-up shot of his face here, emphasizing that he’s truly and wholly identifying with will’s words here. this shot in particular purposefully reveals to the viewer that conflicted expression and that blink-and-you-miss-it nod… 

so that brings into question, what is mike afraid to tell el? what is his "truth" that el might not like? 

and there’s where the faux confession comes in. that monologue wasn’t a truth that el might not like. in fact, it was just the opposite. it was a lie that mike thought el would want to hear. it was a lie that mike thought would save el… and consequently save the person who could save max, hawkins, his family, his friends, the world. and it was a lie that he told because he was falsely under the impression that el needed him in that moment and would always need him in every moment after that. no pressure, right?

…it’s almost shakespearean to see will’s lie to mike result in mike’s lie to el. it’s a classic case of dramatic irony: the audience is privy to the knowledge of will’s self-sacrificial lie to mike, and all the while mike himself is entirely unaware. and now we’re seeing that lie beget more lies, more misunderstandings, and more drama where nobody in the love triangle is happy. and in proper shakespearean fashion, it’s only a matter of time that these lies get exposed.

(on another, tangential note—i found this interpretation of this scene very intriguing and quite plausible. i mean, why would the writers interrupt a low-pressure scene where mike was going to talk it out with el, if they were just going to let him say the same exact thing a few minutes later but in a life or death situation? if mike had even just confessed when they were sitting one-on-one at the table together, it would come across as much more genuine. but he didn’t, and i actually doubt that it was his intention to confess his love in that scene at all. what he was going to explain to her changed both because of what will told him and because of the severity of the situation they were in. if mike sees it as a choice between telling a scary truth and still having the world end, or telling a comfortable lie and saving the world because of it… i can see why he chose to lie.)

I don't have anything else to add, I agree wholeheartedly.

[bettsfic]

Hey Betts! What are some of the techniques of character, pacing, and conflict that you picked up from brba and bcs that you have integrated into your own writing? Would love some examples, if you wanted to expand on that!

so i wrote some initial cursory thoughts a couple years ago but i have had many more since then.

character/conflict

the biggest lesson i've taken from brba and bcs is the power of character choice.

i don't know how exactly i internalized the rule that you have to *force* your character to act, that if they had to choose between conflict and harmony, they'd always choose harmony because that's the more rational decision. so you box them into corners, put pressure on them, make them move. there are so many stories i've stalled out on because i was trying to figure out a way for the external conflict to pressure my character into acting, as if that's the only reason characters will do something interesting and potentially irrational. not to mention, crafting something like that just sucks. it's hard for my brain to think in that kind of logic. i'm much more interested in characters doing batshit things because they're driven to, and they can quit but they don't.

if your story exists only to build character, then there really is no external conflict. your character makes their own fate. and if your character is strong enough, the consequences of their decisions make the story. peace and harmony is always waiting for them, and they never take it.

it's easy to think of gus fring as an antagonist, but it's walter who remains on the offensive, and gus is the one defending himself. but he's defending himself with a lot more firepower at his disposal and so walt thinks he's the poor little meow meow of the situation.

at any point in brba, walt could simply stop doing what he's doing, walk away from it, and nothing would happen. he'd return to his nice house with his happy family and there would be no consequences whatsoever. but he keeps pushing and pushing, because he's driven to be the Best at something. and because he's an asshole.

in bcs, character choices are compounded because jimmy, kim, nacho, and mike are the protagonists. nacho begins the story by working with tuco, but then goes behind tuco's back to start dealing on the side. not only does he earn the salamancas' ire, but gus's too, because to gus, nacho has committed the greatest sin, the ultimate dishonor: biting the hand that feeds you. not to mention the whole trying-to-kill-hector thing. that really sealed his fate.

(nacho is a very interesting character to me because we ally with him the same way we do with jesse, except in introducing nacho, who is with the salamacas but not a salamanca himself, we have a complicating force within the salamanca family, rather than them just being the bad guys, which would be too easy.)

((god i love nacho. talk about a blorbo from my shows.))

mike gets to a point in the plot where he's laundering his own money back to himself through madrigal, and then he gets bored and shows up one day and starts poking around in security stuff, which gets gus's attention, and that's how he gets roped into being gus fring's right hand man. he could have just stayed home and hung out with his granddaughter, but noooo, he had to go Do Stuff.

kim and jimmy are both given so many outs, but they're both addicted to the grift. jimmy getting stranded in the desert? that's not lalo's doing. jimmy had to *beg* lalo to let him go pick up the 7 mil. jimmy is like walt in that we're supposed to believe he's the little guy, he's down on his luck, we're rooting for him to succeed, but he's just too deep into being a con man. the big difference between jimmy and walt is that jimmy tries to be good. but walt only ever wants to win. in the last episode, we see jimmy and walt in the vacuum guy's basement, and it's a really wonderful moment that feels intentionally metatextual, in that it's asking us to look at the differences between them as protagonists. watching it, i get the sense it's maybe the scene that either gould or gilligan had in mind to inspire the show, the thing to work up to. get jimmy mcgill and walter white in a room together (in their underwear, because it's not a brba show if there isn't a middle-aged man in his underwear at least once an episode) talking about philosophy. and walt says, "so you've always been like this." he's saying, "i fell, but you've always been stuck at the bottom."

another difference is that walt acts selfishly almost always, but jimmy is often acting on behalf of kim and vice versa. on a second watch, i noticed that *every single time* anyone said anything bad about jimmy to kim, they immediately put themselves in her crosshairs and she was motivated to destroy them. kim wexler is far and away the best character in the brba universe, maybe one of the best characters on television. it's so thrilling for me to see a female character who is so fucking feral for her husband she's willing to burn the world for him. there are so many times she physically stands between jimmy and the conflict. over and over again, she chooses him. she admires him and loves him when the rest of the world doesn't. and so it's agonizing when she leaves.

the trick to making a story wholly character-driven, and the reason it's so hard to pull off, is because your characters need to be interesting and developed enough that their shitty decisions are believable.

ever since i started reframing character/conflict that way--character AS conflict, not as separate things--i think my stories have gotten a lot more interesting and nuanced.

pacing

seasons 1 through 4 of brba, standing alone, are a pretty good show. it's season 5 that elevates it, because it's what i call a victory lap. like, they did it, they won a bunch of awards, people love it, now it's the final season, they're going all out and having a good time. and then *all* of bcs is a victory lap. it takes its time. it goes everywhere it wants to go. it feels like nothing is restrained or restricted from us. every little detail accounted for. and el camino does it too, it's a character-focused story that takes its time. i'm particularly drawn to the pacing of el camino because of how contained it is. i can't explain it exactly, but i've always loved stories that have a smooth, slow build up and a payoff and nothing else.

what's really brilliant about this universe is that every character succeeds in their mission. all of them! and the story continues and follows the characters through the consequences of that success. because the characters are so interesting and complicated, their success is complicated too. even lalo succeeds in his mission. he finds the laundry business. he tells hector. but don eladio doesn't believe hector, and don eladio is so well built that we believe it. he's totally aware of gus's revenge plot, but it's so far beneath him it's not worth his time.

i first noticed the success arcs in brba, in the scene where skyler takes walt to the storage unit of money, and she's like, there's no way to count it. no way to spend it. i just make sure the bugs don't eat it. as a banker, i was stunned by this scene, because media never acknowledges the fact that cash in large quantities is nearly impossible to manage. any time you deposit over $10k of cash in a bank in a single 24 hour period, a report gets sent to the FBI. so i loved that the show addressed the reality of cash profit. and on a metaphorical note, it's a great way to see, tangibly, that walter white has won.

by the end of season 4, walt has everything. he's in remission from cancer, he's wealthy, he's made the greatest meth the world has ever seen, he hasn't lost his family, and no one is more powerful than him. the only one who can defeat him is himself. most stories end there, the character getting what they're looking for and everything is great and we've returned to a state of harmony. but when your characters are as messy as these, it's never that simple.

while watching bcs, i actually got pretty mad at my roommate because he's like, "it's season 5 and nothing has happened." and when i said that's not true, he argued with me, and i was like, what you're noticing is a steady escalation of conflict rather than episodic conflict, which is rare for tv to do, considering most shows are fighting for each new season. we're used to seeing each episode of something have a conflict, rising action culminating into a climax. and then we see that reproduced in a larger way across an entire season, every season. but bcs is just one long, seamless story, with no major breaking points until the very end. and that's amazing. throw away the acts. the key turning points. the stages. the story is just all one thing, characters fucking around and finding out.

initially, watching season 6 as it was airing, i was disappointed by the ending. partly this is because i didn't remember any of what happened in the first 5 seasons and so i'd forgotten a lot of the context. partly it was because i was wrongly comparing it to the brba finale. but watching bcs in full a second time, i think the ending is really brilliant, because it completes jimmy's character arc. in the end, he's not saul goodman but jimmy mcgill, and he makes the right choice. all the characters in these shows are so well established and the plot honors them so well. there's so much patience and maturity here, and they also still manage to be funny too. i'm just in awe of them. they inspire me so much.

it's so rare that a piece of media is both genuinely good and widely loved. for the most part, i'm just grateful these shows exist and that i can learn from them and apply the craft concepts to my own work. but a little part of me is envious that i'll never be able to write something that well or that patiently.