#and how they represent the differences between homestuck and post canon

[nintendont2502]

john as a heir who inherits the narrative freely, doesnt even know that he has the narrative, and barely changes it unless hes being directed to by some outside force (breath as directionless, independent, detatched, free). john as a character whos never existed at the same time as an alternate version of him, a character who never has to face himself and remains largely unchanged by the end of the narrative even as it changes around him

ult dirk as a prince who destroys the narrative and destroys through the narrative, who is determined to reshape it in his own image and 'fix' it, who will make himself the villain if thats what it takes and do whatever he has to in order to help everyone, even if it means hurting them (heart as putting on and taking off masks when needed, inflexible, cold, building a coherent narrative of their own story). dirk as a character who constantly has to face himself via one of his many alternate selves, who can only gain control by uniting those alternate selves into one coherent whole

john is homestuck and ult dirk is homestuck post canon and one of the first things he does when he gains power is kill john (kill homestuck) through the narrative. destroying the (previously free, directionless, detatched) narrative and destroying that narrative through your own (inflexible, cold) narrative. theyre so yaoi

[weaselandfriends]

Post-postmodernism in Pop Culture: Homestuck’s Revenge

I recently saw an excellent video essay titled Why Do Movies Feel So Different Now? by Thomas Flight. Though the title is opaque clickbait, the video is actually about major artistic zeitgeists, or movements, in film history. Flight describes three major movements:

Modernism, encompassing much of classic cinema, in which an earnest belief in universal truths led to straightforward narratives that unironically supported certain values (rationalism, civic duty, democracy, etc.)

Postmodernism, in which disillusionment with the values of modernism led to films that played with cinematic structure, metafiction, and the core language of film, often with more unclear narratives that lacked straightforward resolutions, and that were skeptical or even suspicious of the idea of universal truth 

Metamodernism, the current artistic zeitgeist, which takes the structural and metafictional innovations of postmodernism but uses them not to reject meaning, but point to some new kind of meaning or sincerity.

Flight associates metamodernism with the “multiverse” narratives that are popular in contemporary film, both in blockbuster superhero films and Oscar darlings like Everything Everywhere All at Once. He argues that the multiverse conceptually represents a fragmented, metafictional lack of universal truth, but that lack of truth is then subverted with a narrative that ultimately reaffirms universal truth. In short, rather than rejecting postmodernism entirely, metamodernism takes the fragmented rubble of its technique and themes and builds something new out of that fragmentation.

Longtime readers of this blog may find some of these concepts familiar. Indeed, I was talking about them many years ago in my Hymnstoke posts, even using the terms “modernism” and “postmodernism,” though what Flight calls metamodernism I tended to call “post-postmodernism” (another term used for it is New Sincerity). Years before EEAAO, years before Spider-verse, years before the current zeitgeist in pop cultural film and television, there was an avant garde work pioneering all the techniques and themes of metamodernism. A work that took the structural techniques of postmodernism--the ironic detachment, the temporal desynchronization, the metafiction--and used them not to posit a fundamental lack of universal truth but rather imbue a chaotic, maximalist world of cultural detritus with new meaning, new truth, new sincerity. That work was:

Homestuck.

That’s right! Everyone’s favorite web comic. Of course, I’m not the first person to realize the thematic and structural similarities between Homestuck and the current popular trend in film. Just take a look at this tweet someone made yesterday:

This tweet did some numbers.

As you might expect if you’re at all aware of the current cultural feeling toward Homestuck, many of the replies and quotes are incredibly vitriolic over this comparison. Here’s one of my favorites:

It’s actually quite striking how many elements of the new Spider-verse are similar to Homestuck; aspects of doomed timelines, a multiversal network that seems to demand certain structure, and even “mandatory death of parental figure as an impetus for mandated personal growth” are repeated across both works. The recycling and revitalization of ancient, seemingly useless cultural artifacts (in Homestuck’s case, films like Con Air; in Spider-verse, irrelevant gimmick Spider-men from spinoffs past) are also common thematic threads.

As this new post-postmodern or metamodern trend becomes increasingly mainstream, and as time heals all and allows people to look back at Homestuck with more objectivity, I believe there will one day be a rehabilitation of Homestuck’s image. It’ll be seen as an important and influential work, with a place inside the cultural canon. Perhaps, like Infinite Jest, it’ll continue to have some subset of commentators who cannot get past their perception of the people who read the work rather than the work itself even thirty years after its publication, but eventually it’ll be recognized for innovations that precipitated a change in the way people think about stories and their meaning.

Until that day, enjoy eating raw sewage directly from a sewer pipe.

(Side note: I think Umineko no naku koro ni, which was published around the same time as Homestuck and which deals with many similar themes and then-novel ideas, will also one day receive recognition as a masterpiece. Check it out if you haven’t already!)

[explaining-homestuck]

can you please explain quadrents (specifically moirailegince? i see alot of people dont seem to get it and id love to have a post to link back to when i explain it instead of having to go through homestuck)

Ah, tackling the big one first.

Homestuck itself has its own explanation of quadrants, which starts on Page 2392. However, I'll take a stab at simplifying the explanation here, although I may take direct quotes from the comic.

Humans have only one form of romance. And though we consider it a complicated subject, [...] it is ultimately a superficial slice of what trolls consider the full body of romantic experience. Our concept of romance [...] is still just [...] a single, linear concept.

(I guess I will be taking direct quotes from the comics.)

This concept of human love is generally represented with the symbol <3, or ❤️. However, trolls, in keeping with the Midnight Crew's full set of playing card theming, have four different types of romance, to fit the four suits.

<3/♥️, Hearts; <3</♠️, Spades; c3</♣️, Clubs; and <>/♦️, Diamonds.

This creates 4 Quadrants of romance, a term that is often used to refer to love and romantic entanglement.

Here, Nepeta's helpful diagram shows how these quadrants are related.

Hearts, the Flushed Quadrant, and Diamonds, the Pale Quadrant, are grouped as "Red Romance". These are the quadrants more associated with what we would possibly call positive feelings.

Meanwhile, Spades the Caliginous Quadrant (often called "Pitch"), and Clubs, the Ashen quadrant, are grouped as "Black Romance", more associated with negative feelings (to a degree, the divide isn't as simple as that.)

Furthermore, Hearts and Spades are Concupiscent Quadrants, and Diamonds and Clubs are Conciliatory Quadrants. These terms relate to the purpose of these quadrants within troll society: Concupiscent (which has meanings of sexual desire) Quadrants are related directly to the reproductive cycle of the troll species. Meanwhile, Conciliatory (meaning to placate of pacify) Quadrants, quote:

"would be more closely likened to platonic relationships by human standards"

Note: this does not make them necessarily platonic relationships in troll society. Pale and Ashen relationships remain romantic, and there may possibly also be sexual elements (not that these are shown or implied in the comic, nor will they be theorised upon here).

The comic makes it clear that while many parallels can be drawn between troll romance and certain human relationships (for example, "frenemies" or "QPRs"), these relationships are different from troll ones, as trolls are driven by primal forces to engage in their 4 types of romance, in the same way we do with our one (This is, of course, a gross oversimplification of the vast spectrum of the human experience of attraction and possible lack thereof, but it's a fair rough analogy.)

Let us now move on to the first and easiest to understand quadrant:

♥️: The Flushed Quadrant

The Flushed Quadrant is (almost) exactly the same as human romantic and/or sexual attraction. For our purposes, ♥️=❤️.

While the trolls have no concept of marriage, and don't generally use the terms boyfriend/girlfriend, the term for a partner in the Flushed Quadrant is a Matesprit, meaning the two trolls have formed a Matespritship.

The given example within Homestuck canon at the time of a Matespritship was Dad Egbert and Mom Lalonde. Several other well known examples are Rose Lalonde and Kanaya Maryam, Latula Pyrope and Mituna Captor, and Jade Harley and Davesprite (during the Yellow Yard trip, before John's 15th birthday). Many others exist, as well as flushed crushes (Kanaya Maryam for Vriska Serket, Nepeta Leijon for Karkat Vantas, etc.)

Note: Humans can take part in Quadrant relationships outside of the Flushed Quadrant, though some trolls thought this impossible.

Next, we explain

♠️: The Pitch (Caliginous) Quadrant

The simplest explanation of Pitch is always "romance, but with hate instead of love". People often find that hard to understand, but it's a trope that appears throughout media. One of the best examples I've found is LEGO Batman and LEGO Joker in the LEGO Batman Movie.

However, it's much more than simply "hate love". A Kisemesistude is more akin to a fierce arch-rivalry, with a troll competing against their Kismesis to outfox, outsmart, or simply defeat them.

The given example for a Kismesistude is Jack Noir and the Black Queen. Another example is Vriska Serket and Eridan Ampora's black romance, which fell apart before they started the game, Marquise Spinerette Mindfang and Orphaner Dualscar's Kismesistude, which they were mimicking, or Terezi Pyrope and Gamzee Makara's relationship in the pre-retcon timeline.

Note: no successful Kismesistudes exist within the main body of Homestuck: Vriska broke things off with Eridan and likewise Mindfang with Dualscar, and Gamzee was physically and mentally abusing Terezi. All canon kismesistudes have either not budded, or ended with one of the two Kismesis dumping the other, or attempting to kill them. (John and Terezi doesn't count in this case, as its continuation only exists in the Epilogues, a dubiously canon source.) This does not, however, mean all Kismesistudes are doomed to fail.

There are also numerous Pitch crushes, such as Eridan Ampora on Rose Lalonde, Gamzee Makara on Dave Strider (or possibly the Insane Clown Posse, it's unclear) and the aforementioned John Egbert for Terezi Pyrope and vice versa.

Now, it wouldn't be a Homestuck post without an Intermission (possibly the first of several!)

🪣: The Bucket Intermission

I'll keep this short.

Flushed and Pitch pairings can, through undescribed processes, produce a combination of genetic material, which is then collected in a Filial Pail (bucket) by Imperial Drones to be fed to the Mother Grub, who then makes all the baby trolls from the gametes, probably.

Hussie also wrote a short paragraph about dominant and recessive genes which makes me think they know less about dominant and recessive genes than the writers of Metal Gear Solid, but that's not that important right now.

If a troll is unable to provide suitable generic materials, they will be culled by the drone, meaning finding concupiscent quadrantmates is a key goal for a troll's survival.

Anyway, back to romance, with

♣️: The Ashen Quadrant

The clubs symbol notably has 3 circles, which relates to the way this relationship (the most misunderstood one, in my experience) works.

Clubs relationships, or Auspisticisms, are formed when a third troll sees a pair involved in a feud, and decides to step in to mediate, becoming their Auspistice. The purpose of an Auspistice is not the mediate and grow a Pitch relationship, as it's often portrayed, but in fact prevent it from developing.

This is because trolls often feud with each other, causing possible Kismesistudes, but (conventionally) troll romance is monogamous in-quadrant, and having two or more Kismesis would be considered infidelity in conventional troll society, as well as that too many Kismesistudes can increase danger in troll society, and mis-matched rivalries can cause trolls to be stuck in relationships they do not like.

An Auspisticism is often defined by the attraction specifically of the Auspistice *toward* the rival pair, and their wish to mediate them. This is known as an Ashen Crush, much like above Pitch and Flushed Crushes.

Examples of known Auspisticisms within canon Homestuck are Kanaya Maryam between Vriska Serket and Tavros Nitram, Doc Scratch between Spades Slick and Snowman (though Scratch's intervention was more driven by accomplishing his own goal of having Slick kill Snowman), and Jade Harley between Bec Noir and the Peregrine Mendicant in [S] Collide, though this ended in failure.

Next, let's move onto

♥️🔁♠️: Quadrant Vacillation

Another known occurrence within troll society and its romantic framework is the Vacillation of two trolls between multiple quadrants. While canon only gives examples of Flushed/Pitch Vacillation, it's stated that this is but the most common type of Vacillation.

This occurs because troll relationships are incredibly malleable. To quote from the comic again:

In many cases, one party will have red feelings while the other has black. But it will often be the case that one party's feelings will swap to match the other's, since there is no quadrant which naturally accommodates such a disparity. But thereafter, it's not uncommon for the two to toggle between red and black in unison now and then. These scenarios naturally result in both red and black infidelities.

This is stated to be a key reason for the existence of the Ashen and Pale quadrants, to prevent such infidelities. Auspistices are intended to be able to stabilise these turbulent relationships, but failure to uphold this role can lead to more instability and chaos within the mixed relationship.

Equius Zahhak and Aradiabot are shown as the key example of Vacillation, caused by Aradia's distain of the former for his rudeness and the fact he planted a chip inside her robot body that would make her love him, and Equius's attraction to the latter paired with his somewhat fetishisation of the caste system (a story for another time). Vriska Serket and Tavros Nitram's relationship is also mentioned, with Vriska's continued mimicking of Mindfang pushing her to meld Tavros into a fitting Matesprit, while at the same time expressing distain for his unwillingness to broach a relationship, and his wimpish behaviour. This is also further complicated by Tavros genuinely being attracted to Vriska, but too scared of her to commit to a relationship, and their Auspistice Kanaya Maryam's flushed crush on Vriska also, leading to her slacking her duties so to speak.

And now, we move onto the final quadrant, the specifically requested one:

♦️: The Pale Quadrant

Pale relationships are called a Moirallegiance, in which two trolls are Moirails. This quadrant can be liked to soulmates, but with a more platonic (yet still romantic) lean.

Moirails, also called Palemates, exist with the purpose to calm down and pacify their Pale partner. Trolls are (said to be) inherently an angry, violent species, with some being dangerous to themselves or society if left alone. Pale attraction exists for a troll of such tendencies to find a partner who can pacify them (positively), and for even-tempered trolls to seek out those who would benefit from their assistance.

A perfect Moirallegiance is said to consist of two trolls who mutually pacify and assist each other, whose emotional profiles fit together well, helping them to form other relationships in different quadrants with ease.

Moirallegiance is often confused by trolls for platonic friendship, and vice versa, and furthermore, Flushed attraction may be confused for Pale. The Flushed quadrant is said to be "more red" than the Pale one by Eridan Ampora, and likewise the Pitch quadrant "blacker" than the Ashen one, as one might expect from their describing colours.

The most well known Moirallegiance in Homestuck would of course be Meowrails, Nepeta Leijon and Equius Zahhak. Others include the Draconian Dignitary and Bec Noir, Karkat Vantas and Gamzee Makara, and Feferi Peixes and Eridan Ampora (although Eridan held a Flushed crush for Feferi, similar to the one Kanaya held for Vriska during her Moirallegiance with her).

Finally, the an important thing that Moirail can do for their partner, in cases of both dire need of calming down, and a lighter gesture of aid, is the Shoosh Pap, performed by Karkat Vantas to Gamzee Makara to calm him down from his murderous rampage at the end of Act 5 Act 2. Karkat says:

IT'S JUST A TROLL THING, HUMANS WOULDN'T GET IT. 

You would think this is everything, and it almost is, but Hussie's explanation forgoes one particular part of troll romance that is only later elaborated on by Karkat:

♥️♠️♥️♠️: Group Vacillation

Um.

You see.

Do you get it?

I think the diagram is clear enough.

Ok, we're done here.

Edit: it is worth noting that this system of quadrants is actually quite limited, both in terms of actual occurrences in the comic, and how it is often portrayed in fanfiction and fanworks, as (due to its time of writing) does not take into account polyamory in the same quadrant.

Edit 2: Redrom also has nothing canonically related to "pity". Saying "I pity you" to a Moirail or Matesprit in place of "I love you" is not a normal thing for trolls; it's based in a model that exclusively Karkat Vantas came up with and talks about, because of his repressed emotional state; he believes there can only be two emotions, hate and pity, and all other emotions are derived from the two. It's not an accurate representation of the workings of troll romance, only a reflection of his state within the comic.

If you want to know *all* about *all* canon examples of *all* four quadrants, or explanation of the other species's versions of romance, those will have to come at a later date. I could also probably make diagrams. But that will have to do for now, I'm afraid. If you find any inaccuracies that aren't about the spelling of Moirallegiance, (trust me, even the comic doesn't know how to spell it), please let me know! I can also probably answer any questions or clarifications in any reblogs, asks, or replies, but they won't necessarily be this extensive.

(Oh and also if anyone wants me to explain that one gif from the section, I can do that too. You know the one.)

[555-95472]

so two different people have asked me about #18. Favorite Beta troll? and it was already getting long, so. here we go 🎉

i won't sugarcoat my garbage opinions here: its eridan fuckin' ampora. welcome to my ted talk on why i love this terrible idiot.

so for context. i read homestuck when i was 14 and it like 6-12 months before my egg would crack. i was starting to be drawn toward male characters in a way i had never before. and my favorite types of characters were (still are?) under-discussed secondary characters with big "i can fix him" energy. so, naturally, eridan really caught my eye.

i liked the contrast between his tactical skill and his interpersonal ineptitude. b/t being kinda badass and being truly pathetic. b/t his attitude of supremacy and his endlessly deep self-loathing. and, yes, i definitely woobified him Big Time back then.

now coming back to the fandom like 13 years later, i see something more? those contrasts still draw me, but now i think about him in terms 1. what it means to be Villain in homestuck (both in his actions and his beliefs), and 2. erisolsprite

since this became an Essay, im putting the rest below the cut

tldr: examining eridan as a villain shows that some Really interesting choices were made in his creation and show how effectively he fills his narrative role. while erisolsprite forcibly hands someone else's perspective to an endlessly self-centered character.

with regards to villainy, in 2011 we had a totally different perspective on timelines and doom and free will and shit? looking back. and its so clear that eridan Had to be what he was, both narratively and meta-narratively?

what got me thinking about it was actually kanaya's sylladex releasing the matriorb? her fetch modus only releases objects when its The Right Time. and The Right Time was for eridan to fucking destroy it. and i realized that shit would've probably been pretty fucked if they got to the condesce with the matriob (something she wants Badly) and feferi (the heiress she was meant to kill).

narratively, eridan was predestined to destroy the matriob, and had he done anything differently, it would have doomed them. and i know this is the case for literally every decision, but idk something about that perspective hits different for eridan, who acts on his worst impulses and almost never has a positive impact on anything

like, goddamn, his classpect is prince of hope, and his planet is wrath and angels. people talk about whether or not he fulfilled his mythical arc or whatever? but it seems like LOWAA was meant to push him to that place of furious tension and volatile fear. it needed to happen and his planet made it so.

(plus i think there's some really interesting post-canon au stuff to explore with eridan learning to redefine prince of hope from "i destroy with my conviction" (meaning "i kill with magic/science") to "i destroy my conviction" (meaning "i deconstruct the things i once considered my core beliefs"))

and meta-narratively, eridan is Useful and also pretty interesting? imo there needed to be some representation of what the expected hemocaste beliefs of alternia were like. specifically someone representing the intersection of hyperviolence and bigotry that forms that backbone of their culture. eridan, as a war-tactic-obsessed seadweller, does a really good job of that.

but what twists him into something more is his role as an orphaner. in homestuck, eridan is the voice of his society's most violent and genocidal beliefs, and he is uniquely placed in a position to enact them. but he doesn't.

if eridan's bigotry is thought about as a narrative necessity for the arcs of other trolls (♋, ♉, ♐, etc.), it becomes more clear that some really clever choices were made to show a complex version of that (while still not overshadowing how Terrible he is). eridan is meta-narratively given infinite opportunities to do unspeakable violence that he Does Not Take. which serves to both undermine how dangerous he is, and to call into question the depth of those beliefs.

and with all that in mind: holy shit erisolsprite. eridan joined in mind and memory with sollux, a powerfully psionic goldblood who grew up in the shadow of helmsmanship. erisolsprite is so united in their self-loathing that they find unshakable common ground (as opposed to sprite-sploding like others do). its arguably The most stable relationship we see eridan have and the most stable sprite made of 2 trolls, and thats so wonderfully fucked up.

for eridan specifically, who is almost defined by being self-centered, he suddenly has the full memory of growing as sollux, who lived his life in the shadow of his own doom and was endlessly willing to sacrifice himself for others. eridan is literally is shoved into sollux's shoes and given memories of every previous step, all while sollux is still wearing those same shoes.

and while being erisolsprite definitely Sucks Ass, i can't stop thinking about how much that would affect eridan (Positively) if he ever got out of the sprite. tbh im also curious what sollux would walk away from erisolsprite with, but thats a post for a different time. i could go on, but it would probably just turn into a fanfic about it

ok my eridan rant is over. i hope this made sense. thank you for coming. here's a little bonus lowres eridan 💚

(also i havent played pesterquest yet so idk anything about that. ive been meaning to but its dubiously canon so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

[badgerteeth666]

Decided I would post my homestuck oc Luriky onto here. I forgot if I posted about her already, I doubt I did.

Uhh anyways this is Luriky, she is a troll but a different kind of troll. Specifically she represents Otherkin which is the idea that someone who identifies as partially or wholly as an animal or mythical being. But for the trolls it's more literal since they basically are what their akin to. As for Luriky she is obviously akin to a Shiba Inu, a breed of dog. Although in terms of the hemospectrum, she sits between tavros and sollux because otherkin trolls are looked down upon like animals regardless of blood color (ik that's not how it would canonically work but like fuck Andrew hussie I do what I want)

She loves music especially from the 80s to the early 2000s as her ancestor was a rockstar (I might post about her later on), she likes exploring the internet, especially new grounds, she's sorta arrogant at times and only really follows her own set of rules

She HATES being commanded around or given orders, hates people who try to command others, the hemospectrum and the people who stick by it.

[sweatertheman]

I havent finished Homestuck, but I have in my mind a general picture of where it's going. More complications where a goal is set, dashed against the rocks, and everyone just sort of runs around staring into the cold uncaring universe and having discussions that don't really go anywhere, forever, until eventually the bad guys, (probably Lil' Cal or some derivative as I recall someone saying English is not very important) are beaten and our heroes retire to doing the same things they usually do, just as immortal gods now.

And frankly, I sort of wish it didn't have to be this way, as much fun as it is.

I had some thoughts about an alternate version of Homestuck more focused on the issues our beloved Beta Kids have.

I was thinking about John (alternatively June, I don't think a Toblerone is the best reason to make a character trans post-canon, but, I won't judge what people like) and how his story could have been different. Along with the other kids too.

Forget everything you know about Homestuck, and imagine that John Egbert is the heir to the Betty Crocker Corporation, or some analogue to it. That, or in some way his father is important in the company. John is 13. He's an immature and irresponsible child, and the pressure of one day taking his father's position, making money, having responsibility, is something he is very worried about. It weighs on him a lot. He stops wanting to talk to his dad, who is always talking abkut the business and baking cakes. In fact, he can't stand even looking at any kind of baked good. He shuts himself in his room, playing video games, chatting with friends online, and generally distracting himself from that weight. His Strife Specibus is a hammer, as it is the prospect of work, of responsibility, that causes him strife. And here, on his 13th birthday, too paralyzed by the prospect of a responsibility he isn't ready for, John Egbert has become Homestuck.

Now consider one Dave Strider. Dave lives with his enigmatic older brother, who spends all his time locked up in his room, managing his various multimedia endeavors. Most days, Dave doesn't even see his brother, barely anything more than a whoosh as he moves between rooms. Dave too, is 13. He's feeling insecure, but his brother isn't there for him. His brother barely provides him the basic ammenities he needs to survive, and most of the house is a wreck, filled to the brim with puppets and swords and the like. Dave doesn't have anyone else. He needs love and support from his brother. He needs to be seen. He hides behind shades like his brother does. He acts stoic, so as to seem cool and capable. He tries to mimick his brother to connect with him, and he spends every day trying to do something, anything, just to earn his brother's love and support. Dave's Strife Specibus is the Sword, as it represents glory and stoicism. Dave wants to be seen, needs to be the best, because maybe then, someone will actually respect him. And just like his friend John, he too, is Homestuck.

Skipping Jade and Rose for now because its 1 AM.

I think in this alternate Homestuck, the events Sburb might ONLY be game constructs. In order to truly win, John and his friends, have to stop hiding away. They have to confront their issues. The purpose of Sburb is to help these kids grow, to come into themselves and see the world in different ways. In the end, perhaps, They would all return to their houses to turn off the game, only to find themselves back at home as though nothing had happened.

John telling his father he isn't ready for the responsibility of being an adult.

Dave confronting his brother for being neglectful.

Jade being able to move on from her dead grandfather and let go of her anger towards him.

Rose asking her mother if she loves her, as opposed to assuming she hates her and that people are just naturally terrible.

And it is in confronting their anxieties and their anger, that they can Unhomestuck themselves.

That being said, smuppet ass, self-fulfilling clusterfucks, troll cum buckets, Doc Scratch Definitely Not Being Mad When Things Don't Happen Exactly How He Wants, alternate universes, and Fruity Rumpus Asshole Factories are also acceptable.

[disworl]

Alive, indefinitely.

I.

So, since I’ve been dutifully informed that since this is my blog and I can post hwhatever I want, I thought I’d talk a little about my ‘fic ‘Alive, indefinitely’.

The ‘fic was birthed by me realizing the implications of Hussie’s revision that all burgundy bloods have the ability to commune with the dead. For the most part, I dislike his changes where the trolls from Homestuck proper become near stock representatives of their entire bloodcaste, but at least, this one has compelling subtext instead of just seeming lazy. And it is that the bloodcaste that has the ability to commune with the dead is also the bloodcaste that lives the shortest and is the most likely to have friends and acquaintences who die often.

And who better explore that topic than Aradia? So I wrote the ‘fic, and it did branch out to be about her, partially as her role as a rustblood on Alternia. And so it grew bigger than just exploring the subtext. I knew I wanted it in little numbered parts that made vignettes, as I’d been working on writing longer stories and was worried I was losing my edge in vignettes and short fiction. Though the resulting ‘fic ended up 1,677 words (I intended to keep it under 1,000, though I’m not disappointed!), I’m still very satisfied with it and think the vignettes work. With the numbering of the vignettes, I also wanted to do an sort of Epileptic Bicycle and start skipping around numbers, to show that there was different amounts of time passing, and that things were happening in between. And because I just thought it was neat. The idea of a story with missing numbered chapters is very compelling. And anyway, I did have a skip, with the penultimate vignette being 5, and the ultimate being 10 (which upon thought really does make the ‘a lifetime later’ after the 10 work out mathematically*), but it played nowhere near as a big role as I would want to. Maybe some other time.

*Which since all the numbers are roman numerals, 10 ends up being ‘x’, which as a symbol is associated with death. I planned none of that (or at least I don’t remember it consciously) but I will take credit, regardless.

II.

For a second I thought Tumblr was more competent than it is, so I tried to insert a line break, but Tumblr is not competent, so have a fancy second section with big roman numerals instead.

Anyway, I’m just going to note and comment on some specific parts of the passage, because I can.

The internet is wide and wonderful, and it is through there that she learns about archaeology, the wonders lying just beneath the ground and thinks, to be an archaeologist would be an awfully grand adventure.

What Aradia thinks is a fairly straightforward play on the phrase, ‘to die would be an awfully grand adventure’. It's a neat way to both tie back the theme, and it also spared me from figuring out exactly how to phrase it.

She finds especially good company with one boy, his troll tag resting at the top of her chumproll. He’s a rustblood like her, a bit reserved but passionate about the mystery book he’s writing. Occasionally he sends her snippets from it, and while it’s a bit clumsy, he is always eager to hear about her archaeological expeditions, so she never mentions it.

When I wrote this part, I suddenly realized I needed an unnamed rustblood to die. I also realized it would be a good idea to also characterize him a little bit before killing him off, so you get at least the idea of what his and Aradia’s relationship was like, so I decided to use one of my long-derelict fantrolls.

So she starts to rebel. She grows her hair out, longer than the modest shoulder-length cut she had before. She lets it become wild, a sign of her own spirit and power. She starts painting her lips and lining her eyes in burgundy, a mockery of the high bloods who wear their blue hues as a fashion statement.

This is a combination of two of my headcanons about Alternian society: that long, wild hair is seen as a sign of power and sexuality (as expressed by the Condesce and other highbloods), and that wearing hemo lipstick and eyeliner is a high blood fashion trend.

When she is five sweeps old, she makes another close friend. He’s a bit shy, but unapologetic about what he likes – his fiduspawn collection, pupa pan, FLARPing – and that, as much as she loves Sollux, is a breath of fresh air.

Tavros is often done dirty by fanfic and fan-interpretations of Homestuck, and it often intertwines with apologism for Vriska and her abuse of him. He’s treated as a perpetually and naturally weak and insignificant, when having a person who is abusive like Vriska will make anyone unsure and rattled like that. It takes some digging, as the majority of Homestuck takes after Vriska’s batted around Tavros for quite a while, but underneath her abuse (and the effects from that abuse at the hands of Alternian culture) it’s clear that he’s still that unapologetically dorky kid, and even cocky at times. In his trollhandle adiosToreador, he’s not the Toreador - he’s the bull. And hopefully I could express that well in the space that I could.

She befriends Karkat through Sollux, and Terezi through Karkat, and it’s through Terezi that she learns about Vriska.

This is one of several sentences in this ‘fic that employ a certain sense of repetition and rhythm. Part of that is because it gives a motif of time, which is tied to death and destruction in Homestuck, and the other half is because I just... really like writing ‘em.

She still talks with Tavros, however, but now he’s uncertain, hesitant and ashamed, and a fair number of times when she trolls him he doesn’t reply, and when he does more than anything he talks about the things he’s experienced in his dreams, and she knows exactly who has been trolling him even if he doesn’t say it and –

– and Aradia watches her friend become a living ghost, bit by bit.

This is place where I forwent canon the most, earning the ‘fic its ‘mild timeline fudgery’ tag. Throughout writing this ‘fic I constantly had a tab open to either a page in Homestuck or the wiki, or both, in order to make sure I stayed as accurate to Alternian culture that I could (at least, in Homestuck proper). While there were a lot of gaps that I got fill in for myself, it’s just plain canon that Aradia sends the ghosts after Vriska immediately after she knows that Tavros is likely going to be paraplegic for the rest of his life. But I had written the sentence already (one of my favourite lines, really), and it just makes for a better story, at least in this ‘fic. So I kept it like that. There’s also a sort of cut-and-paste fudge in that sentence, too. I remembered that Tavros spent most of his time dreaming on Prospit just so he didn’t have to deal with Vriska’s abuse, but as it turns out, it happens after she god-tiers. So I just turned it into regular dreaming and thereby folded into the above canon discrepancy. But it’s definitely based on that later detail.

iv.

The shock of seeing Sollux actually at her hive is quickly overtaken by the shock that courses through her veins right after she realizes what is about to happen, and far too late to do anything about it.

I knew pretty early that I wanted the vignette of her death to be one sentence long, though I certainly ended up stretching that one sentence fairly far. Either way, it’s very isolated from the rest of the ‘fic, which is fairly on-par for the ‘fic style where a particularly hard-hitting or important sentence gets its own paragraph. Anyway, everyone knows how the story ends, and it’s sudden for Aradia, so I think putting it in one sentence both works structurally and artistically.

She’s tired of temporal inevitability.

She’s free of the endless orders and voices of the dead.

She, for the first time in her life, feels truly alive.

Instead of the pale shadows that clung to her hive, the hollow ghosts that people left behind, the dream bubbles are filled with countless iterations of her friends, and numerous others.

But even then, dying and waking up in foreign surroundings is a shock.

And really, there’s no-one else who would be a better guide to greet the dead.

At this point, I feel again, that going into detail would be dragging things out. I also wanted it to feel significantly different from the rest. So, where the other parts of the story are told through a sort of rolling tone of voice, through ‘the lens of age old history’ the rather straightforward sentences here are meant to sound very present.

[homestuckcontroversyin2020]

My Opinions on The Epilogues

So I expect that this isn’t going to go over too well, whether it be because I get absolutely zero attention on this post, or for the fact that I’m literally typing up what is probably a hate post that’ll spark up some, “Oh fuck you.” comments. Either way, I don’t really care about the possible hate to be garnered or anything. I’m here to state my opinion on this, and opinions can’t kill anyone when you’re as weak at arguing as I myself am. Now, this isn’t a fucking logical article, I’m not taking time with comprehensive research and making sure I fact check every little detail because that would involve reading Homestuck for and eighth time and re-reading the Epilogues so I have the biggest refresher in the world. I’m not doing that, so take my sub-par rambles.

Preface over, let’s get into the meat.

My original thought when I heard that the Epilogues came out was initially an eye roll big enough to be like when Hulk smashed Loki in the ground. An arch of, “What the fuck, Hussie.” In other words? I didn’t want to read them. I spent the first few days in agony, complaining about how Homestuck was probably just becoming a money grab, and hearing from other people about the content that  came out.

It.. wasn’t as bad as I expected when I jumped into it. People made a bigger deal about them than I thought was even insanely possible. Let me get this out of the way. I don’t hate the Epilogues. Do I think they were poorly done? Yes. Do I think that the writing was subpar? Absolutely. Do I think that fourteen year olds in their bedroom typing away at shitty fanfiction or roleplaying smut on MxRP/MSPARP have a better grasp on the characterization of each individual character than the people who took over and wrote the Epilogues? 10000%. Still, I thought they were a clever addition to alternate timelines. I had heard from a source they were meant to be a satirical take on fanfiction, and was a mocking poke at the Homestuck community... until Beyond Canon came out.

So here we are now with an 18 year old who’s spent their time on this planet obsessing over Homestuck since before they could read cuss words without feeling embarrassed telling you about how they’re pissed off with some small things that are of no value.

I’m an Alpha Kid Stan(TM) so everything that happened to my sweet babies has made me want to blow my brains out over the walls. Let’s go down the line.

Jane, sweetheart? Who hurt you? Now, I’ll be honest, I rushed through the Epilogues in my, ‘fuck I don’t want to read this but I feel like I need to in order to satiate my burning curiosity.’ mode. Jane’s whole... situation seems really fucked up to me. The color of her text in the EPs is another thing that pissed me off beyond belief, and I’m not sure why. The consistency between comic and canon was draining on my nerves. Jane, in Homestuck, is a whiny teen, but in no way do I look at her and see racist Hitler. Also, what the fuck was up with the clown thing? Why did she have an obsession with fucking Jake? Sure, she was into him before, but wasn’t part of her character arch getting over the buck toothed bangaroo? I thought so. I also thought that Jane was, you know, just a normal girl living her best life. She sure complained, but who doesn’t?? The Jane we’re given in the Epilogues seems to lack the internal dilemmas that the dear, sweet Crocker we’ve grown fond of does. There’s barely a hit of self hate, she doesn’t blow up, and sure we could possibly count this to her being older, but, what? She didn’t seem to be pissed off about the entire existence of trolls in Homestuck. Sure, her time with them was minimal and she didn’t really get all the shit through, but she fought side by side with Kanaya, even. I just don’t see it at all.

Jake. Oh boy. This is a big one. In either case, Jake’s whole thing really bothers me. He doesn’t seem like Jake. He seems like a watered down version of himself that doesn’t even make fucking sense? He’s an aloof dork, but he’s not horrendously stupid, there’s no reason to make him an alcoholic, and why the fuck is he an attention seeking slut? Yes, yes. We could blame this all on Dirk but really, what were the authors thinking? They had complete control over what happens in this and they turn Jake into something he’s not. He had other drives and passions than living out his life as the sexy action movie woman we all need in our lives. Jake’s smart to his own degree, stubborn, and kind of a flirt! He’s not insanely oblivious, either. For instance, I recall a specific moment where he insinuates that Jane was having a wet dream about him in Homestuck. I’m not going to find the quote, but I know it’s there. Jake spent time working on the robot rabbit for John with Jade and outright refused help from some outside sources. Jake is smart! He’s got an extensive vocabulary! He’s just a nerd, and he’s more than an uwu gay boy for Mr. Triangles.

Roxy, oh no. This is where I expect to get the most heat. Roxy is a beloved character. The light of my life and the best of the kids, in my opinion. (I’m an avid Dirk Stan, but Roxy has won my heart truly and thoroughly.) I don’t like the whole trans/non-binary thing. Not because I’m transphobic or anything, because I’m absolutely not. It’s because it feels like it just doesn’t fit with her as a character?? Roxy grew up in isolation in a place without humans, you really think she’s going to have an outright conceptualized view on gender roles and norms? Basic fucking psychology would tell you otherwise. This is something that her brain would have trained her to do based on a societal view. I may not have paid a huge ass amount of attention in psychology, but gender is a thing that’s completely up in the air and taught to us. Roxy didn’t have that. You could argue and say that her house has something of the sort that’d lead her to feel that way, or perhaps she’s learned this all off the internet, but her clothes scream femme and she had to make them herself, is all I’m saying. Again, whatever, go off, make Roxy trans. It’s not a huge deal, but that isn’t the only problem I have. Roxy as a character seems to have just lost her spark. There’s little outright love and enjoyment and adoration for her friends that there is in Homestuck. She’s not your hype go get them loving girl. Again, maybe you could blame this on the fact that they’re all older, but getting older isn’t going to drastically impede your previous personality and make you an entirely different person. They essentially turned Roxy into a watered down version of Dave, but trans. It’s like they couldn’t make Dave trans so they just made a new Dave. It’s annoying to me, and that’s my biggest problem. I love Roxy. I don’t care for Epilogue Roxy. If they had done it right, if they had used specific things from Homestuck, if Homestuck itself keyed in on this or ANYTHING, fine. But Roxy was old enough to question her identity, most people do around 16, and she could have had the opportunity to start representing this already. I mean, who was stopping her? Then the baby stuff. Huh? What? Why? Doesn’t make sense, pass. Her bffsy, brother, and person that cared about her most off and yeets himself from the top of the nearest belltower and all she can think about is copulating with John??? Alright, fam.

Onto Dirk. Y’know what? I don’t have many huge problems with Dirk. I found his personality in Meat really funny, I found the death in Candy absolutely soul crushing. Dirk is a good character. I don’t think they did his personality well, but I don’t think they did any of the characters well. Maybe John. Maybe. Dirk really just sounded like a child who wasn’t getting what he wanted, and it was amusing to say the least. He sounded horrible from the way people talked about him before I read it, but I really just found his overzealous ego entertaining. I found the fact that they made him still totally desperate for Jake kind of annoying though. Dirk broke of their relationship. Dirk was the one who took a moment to realize it wasn’t healthy for either of them, and getting what you want isn’t good. Taking over the narrative and making your ex nearly jizz himself in public is hilarious and all, but also, what??

Alright. Alphas. Let’s move onto Betas.

I skipped a lot of it, not going to lie. Rather than breaking it down for each character like I did with the Alphas, I’m just going to ramble and see where the wind takes. me.

I don’t ship Davekat. I don’t see it working in a romantic aspect. I see them being bros, and it felt really forced in both sides of the story. The homoerotic tension could maybe be smelled for a mile away, but lets not forget something very important. Dave has shown interest in women. Dave was interested in Terezi, he called Roxy and Jane hot, he totally fucking jizzed his jeans for Jade. The fact that so many characters in the Epilogues were exclaiming that Dave was gay, and Dave himself leaning towards the sentiment, didn’t seem to really match up. Dave’s not just pretending to like chicks either, he’s definitely interested in them to the point of being genuinely flustered and embarrassed (I.E The Hot Mom conversation.) So, I don’t really enjoy that. I think the economy shit is cute, his alternate counterpart seemed to have a good hand for business according to the spiel that was made about him, I liked it.

Rose? Didn’t pay a lot of attention to her. The drug abuse shit really pissed me off. Rose in general really pissed me off in the Epilogues. 

John is a can of worms. His characterization was done well, but I guess I just don’t see the point in the two timeline deals. Also, why did he have sex with Terezi? Why was he so much of a baby when the rest of the people around him apparently seemed to mature? Who knows. I sure as hell don’t.

And... then there’s Jade. Poor, sweet Jade. She’s been done dirty almost as much as Jake has, if not worse. She has a dick for one. Yikes. She’s extremely sexually driven, which isn’t something I can see for canon Jade who just wants to hang out and vibe. She’s also so fucking insistent with the “uwu lets date Dave and Karkat” shit that it drives me up a fucking wall. Jade, you should know better! You dated an alternate version of Dave! You dated the OG motherfucker fresh timeline bitch who lost everyone, and sure he was depressed, but I think if I remember correctly you know about all of this???? Hmmmmm!!!! Big questions. It almost leads one to believe she’d know better than to enter into a relationship like this with Dave since it could be emotionally unfulfilling. :))))

Anyways, this entire thing is a can of fucking worms and I don’t suspect I’m going to use this account often aside from shitposting, so have this one uneducated article and if you made it through it and agree, disagree, or what have you, don’t be an ass in the replies? I get it, I’m opinionated and should probably shut my mouth, but it’s the internet and I don’t really care at this point.

[skaiatemple]

Happy Heart Festival!

Happy July! We've entered the Season of Heart. So here is a guide to inspire on how you can best celebrate it.

Whether you follow as a believer in Pop Culture Paganism, a user of Homestuck inspired Chaos Magic, or just want to see if you can use your favorite fandom to help inspire you throughout the year, we're here to help!

If you prefer to just celebrate it for today, Heart is for the self. It's for self improvement or just doing what you feel you're meant to do! It's for being yourself to your fullest extent no matter what that is. Get out there and raise some chaos, whether you're a weeb, shipper, furry, or something that's at all Valid. (Jkjk)

Life may be about self care, but it's nothing in compared to the selfish self care Heart takes part in. Maybe you even have trouble finding what it is that it means to be You. This month can be about working on that too.

ASPECT CENTERED

Celebrating the Aspect first is for if you're fully gung-ho on celebrating the base Festivals for exactly what the represent: Their Aspect and the traits independantly associated with it.

"Forging an identity is extremely important to the Heart-bound, and every decision and action goes toward building a coherent narrative of their own story." The Aspect blurbs tell us exactly how the Aspects are originally meant to work. Heart is about identity and stability in it. They can be selfish or inflexible, but an important thing to understand is that some times in moderation those things can be big positives.

Sometimes the strongest weapon we can have is being ourselves completely unabashedly. Whether this is to hold our own in a conflict, or to be able to keep our own selves steady when nothing else is so. In this world we have to be able to have a grasp on ourselves before we can figure out what we are to do next, or where we might need improvement.

Maybe theres some facets of your personality you supress for some reason that you should learn to let loose. Maybe you can find a new way to express your favorite parts. Or maybe all you need to do is take a stand and let others know that you're who knows you best. This month is for being yourself.

MAGICAL INSPIRATION

Whats in your Heart may be difficult to explain, or the Heart may be scarred and painful to look into. but it's important to remember that it's the only one you got, and only you can take care of it the way it really needs

. Shadow work can help with taming and healing the self, though it can be tricky to get into in-depth, it's something to be looked into with everyone whose gone through the dark. Or maybe you're already stable enough- in which case you should do whatever you feel nessesary to benefit your own self. Be it divination or a glamor makeover to make your outside match the inside.

Check out what Zodiac sign the Full Moon is in, and do a ritual based on its corresponding character, or any of the traditional attributes the Sign goes with.

INTEGRATION ROUTE

For people in the broom closet who are too timid or strung out to celebrate the Festivals openly and uniquely, you can always integrate the Aspects traits to fit with the most common elements or other holidays of the month. Not even Hussie is Homestuck God, no one will mind!

Depending on where you are, Summer could very well be in full swing. Take care of yourself and take the opportunity to go do something good for you. School is probably out so what better time to focus on yourself and nothing else!!!

As there are no major holidays between July 23rd & August 23rd, I emplore you to look up the very real minor holidays acknowledged in that time period. (LINK) Maybe you can pick one that resonates (or that you find hilarious) and plan to celebrate it enthusiastically.

FANDOM DRIVEN

For if you're not all for spirituality or routine and just want to enjoy going all-out with your favorite story and characters, honor the ones of the month by driving full-throttle on the fandom bandwagon. Not even Andrew Hussie Himself can ruin our fun.

Heart is the Aspect for Leijons. Some very unappreciated girls who never seem to be able to catch a break. Whether it's getting saddled as a lovelorn Mary Magdalene, stuck with a brainwashing boyf, or getting your Repeated And Permanent Death turned into a running joke, these girls continue to be fun and cheery!!! and!!! they deserve!!!! More!!!!!

It's also the Aspect for the infamous Dirk Strider. However you feel about the lad, he certainly embodies Strong Features Of The Heart Aspect, whether you choose to acknowledge all the positive ones or all the negative ones. Combining the two gets pretty sadstuck, but maybe you're thirsty for that kind of nonsense. Draw art, write fic, post analysis' for all these freeloving girls and the very Multifaceted Dork Strudel

Please stan respectfully! Remember that Canon is dead!!!!!

We hope some of these gave you ideas for activities you or friends can do to better your month. Everyone plays the game of life differently, and your beliefs are your own, celebrate your days as you see fit! And thanks for playing with us.

--------~Mod Bee

[ardenttheories]

I covered the first point in the original post here. 

Dave’s voice often starts off within the narrative. For some reason, almost all of his iconic phrases start as something that’s read in the narrative text - moreso than any other character. It’s almost always word-for-word, which we never see elsewhere in a similar manner. 

So Dave’s influenced by narrative voices a lot more than any other character. The fact that he also speaks AR’s words shows that he is affected by it; in the same situation, John talks to WV as if a haze has come over his mind. Dave, on the other hand, repeats AR’s text - which is directed to him, and not a command, the same way WV asks John for a can opener. 

So something weird definitely happens there. Something that doesn’t quite add up when you really think about it. He’s affected by narrative voices but still stunned by them; when it’s purely narrative, he doesn’t even seem to recognise what’s going on, but when it’s influenced (by AR, or by Dirk), he seems to be much more aware that something weird is happening, yet doesn’t link it to anything in particular. In both AR and Dirk’s narratives, he assumes he’s just having weird thoughts and odd actions - even though, in AR’s case, he’s literally been told that Exiles are a thing. 

He’s so used to the narrative that he doesn’t subconsciously recognise that AR’s text isn’t meant to be spoken out loud. 

As for why Dave might be able to recognise yet not be wholly aware of the narrative:

I think there’s definitely some merit to the idea that Dave’s more confusingly affected by Exiles because of their position within the narrative. They, in all technicality, are at the End of their journeys - and symbolise the End of the universe that had originally been to full of life. 

But I would suggest in this case, isn’t he being exploited by AR more than he is exploiting AR? He still seems, in this situation, so ignorant to what’s going on, even though - once again - he’s been actively told that his Exile is communicating with him. He’s aware but unaware in the dumbest way. 

It definitely might be that he can subconsciously use it again later, but I’m not wholly sure. I can’t think of a point where he uses this information again. The Exiles don’t become exactly relevant at any point after the first few acts, except for WV and PM, who Dave doesn’t interact with a whole lot. And it’s not like he gets into the whole idea of the command consoles, either? 

You also mentioned in another post something about Dead Daves - the concept that maybe, I assume, some of the narrative is provided by Daves that have already done these things? Which would make a lot of sense. Daves exploiting the narrative to talk to this past Dave and ensure he stays on track with the Alpha Timeline - the same way that Aradia becomes the voice of the dead that whispers to herself and guides her throughout the timeline. My only issue with that would be that we don’t actually see that in canon, I think. 

Unless we say that when Dave repeats his iconic lines - such as the apple juice one - it’s just another Dave remembering he said that and ensuring past-Dave says it? 

Going onto the concept of Time within the narrative:

I went into that here, but I’ll go over it again in brief. 

Time isn’t the narrative. It is heavily related to the timeline, the past and the future, but it is entirely in-universe. Characters that host the Time aspect don’t go into it the same way a Light player does - with the concept of the plot and of this storyline they have to follow. I believe at one point when talking to Rose, Dave even calls this concept bullshit as it just makes them seem like characters in a story (which they are, which shows that Dave doesn’t recongise the narrative as a real, physical thing). 

Within the narrative, Time represents the End of the story. Space is the Beginning, Life is the Rising Action, Doom is the Falling Action, and Time is the Conclusion. 

This is why, as I explain in the linked post, Caliborn can take control of the narrative - at the end of the story, to create a timeline that prematurely concludes Homestuck. 

I know exactly what part of the comic you’re also referencing when it comes to Caliborn being aware of the narrative, and having remembered it, I want to point something out:

Caliborn isn’t aware that it’s the narrative, either. The narrator goes back and forth with him on it, and he ultimately ignores it. It goes something like this. 

“You don't have time for fancy poetry. It's almost as useless as having your thoughts dictated to you, assuming you were even aware of that happening, which you definitely aren't. Cherubs aren't prone to that kind of self awareness. No way, absolutely not. Yes, you believe that thought. The one you had just now, by your own volition, and now it's true reality. See? Yes, you agree totally with that thought you had.

You stew in your own quasi-lucid hostility as you think this very thought. The one right here, that feels like it's being dictated to you, you think. You think it feels that way, so you guess it's true. But we previously agreed that you were the sole author of your own thoughts, didn't we? That's the thought you should be thinking, and more importantly, believing in as hard as you can, thus slightly reducing its stubborn fakeness attribute. You then think the word, HUH? That doesn't sound like a thought you would have, you think to yourself thoughtfully. What the fuck? But seriously, you've got to stop this. If you keep thinking thoughts like this, you'll probably start going crazy.”

He seems to notice something. The narrative asks what he’s looking at, which leads to this whole internal conversation.

Caliborn is in a similar boat to Dave, but maybe a bit more aware? He almost attains awareness, but can’t place what it is. The concept that his thoughts aren’t his, but must be his, but then ultimately are disregarded once the narrator forces him to move on from the concept entirely - it’s definitely a very similar thing to Dave. Almost identical, except for the fact that, once again, it’s entirely internal. 

Even Caliborn doesn’t have that moment of speaking out the narrative. He’s aware that there are thoughts that aren’t his, but he doesn’t seem to go to the point where he speaks things out and then questions why he says them. His physical conversations are entirely his own. 

And then his only ability to talk directly to Hussie comes from the command console. Everything that comes after this is because he’s taken control of the device that writes the Ending.

That’s the bit that makes this unique to Dave, I think. Caliborn might have minor narrative awareness in this one scene, but it’s directly before he finds a device that draws him into the narrative. Questionably, we could say that being within reach of this device allows him to hear Hussie’s voice more clearly - especially since we don’t see this happening with either Aradia or Damara (albeit we don’t see much of the latter at all). 

It’s once he gets his hands on the device that he actively argues with Hussie’s development of his character, after all. 

I think, instead of metaphysical, I should have made the distinction between in-universe and out-of-universe.

Time, while it can be influenced by or influence the narrative, is focused solely in the concept of the in-universe. What Caliborn does is essentially change the timeline for his own benefit, and crafts his own story - not through his own powers, but through the powers of an external device. It’s not like he uses this to create a novel that’ll take him out of the core of Homestuck and make him more than just a character - he uses it exclusively to affect the timeline they’re already in. 

Out-of-universe means anything that goes beyond the actual Homestuck universe. So, Dirk talking directly to us, being aware that we’re an audience that’s outside of the realm of his reality - that’s out-of-universe. That’s interacting with our world rather than solely influencing what happens to the timeline. 

Even when Caliborn is the author, he’s still... vulnerable. He’s still wholly connected to the timeline, to being punched in the face by John, to things taking him by surprise. He’s still not the author - the real world Andrew Hussie - and the person he talks to in the narrative isn’t real-world Andrew. 

There’s definite merit to the theory, but there’s also other factors to explain why Caliborn might be able to affect the narrative and be aware of it - the same way there’s reasons why Heart and Light and Space can influence the narrative without it being an actual part of the Aspect itself. 

Basically, I wouldn’t say “the narrative” is a part of Time as the Aspect description itself, but I would say “Time players can affect or be affected by the narrative when in relation to their Aspect”. 

As for the scene with Aradia, no. The section I think you’re referring to is the one wherein Calliope explains how the narrative works and what it is - essentially telling Aradia that it exists. 

On page 40 of Candy:

JADE: to establish an extremely short narrative for certain illustrative purposes.

JADE: i’m going to repeat your story to you, and i want you to listen carefully.

JADE: a martyr died and said fuck.

ARADIA: ok i listened

ARADIA: thats definitely the short story i just said

JADE: yes.

JADE: now i’m going to repeat the story, but change the way i say it very slightly.

JADE: listen again carefully.

ARADIA: ...

JADE: a martyr died and said fuck.

ARADIA: hmm

ARADIA: yes that was a little different

ARADIA: im not sure that i could describe how though it was pretty subtle

And a bit further down:

JADE: a martyr died and said fuck.

JADE: his final howl of profanity reverberated through the ages.

JADE: it inspired his devotees during the darkest times of a brutal regime.

JADE: his lessons were guarded, kept secret, espoused in the shadows of tyranny.

JADE: a vision of peace would inspire those who’d never conceived of it.

JADE: and though his death was gruesome, it opened the world to a feeling of hope.

JADE: this hope echoed through the ages.

JADE: it gave his disciples the strength to persist as they perished in droves.

JADE: it was the only light to shine on a dark planet for millions of sweeps.

JADE: and if you are one so devoted to his teachings, who sees truth in his words,

JADE: it may be said with great authority that you are wrong.

JADE: you are foolish to believe his lies. his martyrdom is false, his sacrifice hollow.

JADE: repent for your adherence to this illusion now, and perhaps leniency will be your reward.

ARADIA: 0_0

ARADIA: what just happened there

JADE: i brought to your attention that the story you were listening to had a speaker with a specific identity.

JADE: and where there is an identity, there can also be an agenda.

So it’s our Space player, the one that’s actively influencing the narrative, explaining it to our Time player - thereby showing that Aradia had no prior knowledge of the narrative. So it can’t be a wholly Time-related thing to have a connection to the narrative, otherwise Aradia wouldn’t have been surprised in this section.

As I said; Time’s effects with the narrative seem wholly more in-universe. They don’t seem to be aware of the wider narrative as a whole, so much as they’re influencing the timeline - the series of events - itself.

It’s the difference between going back in time to stop yourself from eating some cereal, and writing into the story that you ate an apple instead. One is a physical action; the other is a metaphysical edit.  

This is why I think Dave must be influenced by something other than his Aspect. I get the idea that, maybe, his ability to hear the narrative (but his struggle to recognise what it is) isn’t meant to be something he’s aware of - the same way Caliborn isn’t meant to be aware of it until he’s in the presence of the narrative control panel. It’s also why he struggles with meta concepts as actual fact - such as the Exiles, the idea of “becoming someone”, the fact that his E-bubbles have a much more metaphysical effect than he recongises or even intended.

Additionally, as a posited question more than set fact: Is the character of Hussie dead by the time narrator-Hussie talks to Caliborn within the narrative, as I showed above? Because that could very easily explain why he can hear him; if Hussie is Dead, then that falls naturally within the realm of Time, and as the Lord of Time (albeit a Failed one), Caliborn could hear him better.  

[thaumatological]

im gonnaaaa revise and post my very dirk centric analysis of the epilogues here as well

also in case it needs stating, spoilers abound!

i read through both of the epilogues simultaneously yesterday, consuming both at the same time rather than one and then the other, and i feel like while it may not have been the most “satisfying” approach from a character-centric perspective, i have a more complete understanding of the stories than those who read them separately. if you’ve read through both and have the stomach to do it again for some reason, i suggest doing it in parallel, m1 c1 m2 c2 etc.

i will warn you though, i ended up having two nightmares at the same time in my dreams last night. like, simultaneously, two separate threads of terror unraveling in my subconscious. i woke up this morning already knee deep into an analysis of the homestuck epilogues, and it was less like “waking up” and more “becoming aware that i was conscious”

anyway, without further ado!

dirk killing himself in candy 14 is the scene that resonates with us as being “dirk” because it is. that’s all dirk, our dirk, the one from homestuck. he Has to do that in order for candy to continue being candy, and part of me believes that he knew that on a conscious level—hence his death being just. he knew he wouldn’t get a nice fluffy outcome in the candy timeline because him, all of him, not just this one instance, was fated to be meat dirk.

—and speaking of, the concept of Ultimate Selves pretty much squares away meat dirk. he doesn’t read like our dirk, the one from homestuck canon, because the narrative explicitly states he’s Not anymore. he’s become all of him, all of him from across paradox space, including notable players bro, doc scratch, and lord english. dirk’s Ultimate Self is a culmination of every possible him taken to the highest intensity. it reads like one of his personal nightmares because it WAS his personal nightmare—the personal nightmare of our dirk. he’s a prince of heart. the ascension to his Ultimate Self resulted in the complete destruction of the barriers between his splinters. the more i think about it, the more brilliant it is. he seems out of character as the dirk we know and love because he isn’t.

i feel like i finally Get it, but i’m still not looking forward to seeing people who dislike dirk using this to discredit the progress he made on his personal journey (ie “see he was evil the whole time!”) nor am i looking forward to all of the “dirk would never do this! it’s ooc writing!” from people who seem to have missed the part of homestuck where what scared dirk about himself most was the undeniable truth in it. there’s more than one example of “bad dirk and/or dirk byproducts” out there in paradox space. it’s more than feeling like you “might” be bad, it’s… being afraid of what you would be if you weren’t so afraid of being it, it’s seeing things that were a result of You-but-not-you and having to stare down the fact that even if you weren’t bad, even if you didn’t, you could have, would have, did. dirk’s Ultimate Self being a nightmare scenario is ..almost a recursive throwback to his fears about his ultimate self (note capitals)

him taking control of the narrative was epic though. it honestly did not catch me off guard? it makes sense. it is a 100% dirk strider move. if you haven’t read it by now for some reason, go read detective pony. i am diagnosing you with read detective pony by sonnetstuck. it’s terminal.

the only two people aside from hussie to have controlled the narrative in homestuck canon are the cherubs. and i did make the point somewhere up there that dirk absorbed lord english, and by extension, caliborn. that’s WHY he got that ability. not because he’s a prince of heart. dirk controlling the narrative makes sense from the perspective of dirk controlling the external narrative as well, ie, the whole thing is on a piece of paper that he wrote as some form of bizarre cathartic self punishment for his existence, but in the grander scheme of things and truth of homestuck dirk controlling the narrative makes sense as the puppetmaster-turned-puppet we see him become in several of his iterations, because caliborn literally becomes part of him.

everything is so skewed by the narrators. yes, both of them, because the whole point of the epilogues is that both of them suck and muse calliope is just as shitty as “impartial” “narrator” as Ultimate Self dirk is. it actually makes the whole thing a lot greyer in morality than it comes across at first. US dirk does a lot of Bad Shit as narrator, yeah, but even as passive as she is, calliope’s narration has its flaws (see: everything relating to trickster mode)

the epilogues are less about the characters themselves and more about a grander conflict between the two cherubs, using dirk and jade as their puppets—and yes, muse calliope is using jade as a puppet LITERALLY, which upsets me on so many levels i can’t even get into it here. let jade be fucking relevant and happy hussie or so help me i will write myself into your narrative and do some renovation of my own. but dirk is equally deprived of his agency in this scenario. i’m not going to debate with anyone about the inherent goodness/badness of dirk strider because that’s an entirely different essay, but in canon, dirk’s entire arc is about NOT becoming exactly what he becomes in the epilogues. the dirk we know didn’t choose to become his “Ultimate Self,” the dirk we know doesn’t get a choice between meat and candy, the dirk we know is at the mercy of the narrative even as he pretends to control it.

and that’s not something new to dirk strider, in any variation of himself. i’m specifically going back to thinking about the term “puppetmaster-turned-puppet” here, because i like it. in canon, we see dirk get out-puppeted by hal. it’s implied that bro is being controlled at least in part by lil cal, who is in turn.. a splinter of dirk indirectly via hal via arquiussprite. i’m getting a little lost in all the splinters. why is dirk’s worst enemy consistently himself? don’t answer that. uhh also it should be mentioned that makes lil cal a puppetmaster-turned-puppet-turned-puppetmaster, both literally and metaphorically. i fucking hate andrew hussie.

anyway, both of the epilogues do all that shit to to drive home the point that both of them (and i mean muse calliope and LE here when i say both, because this has officially stopped being about the dirk we know) are removed from human concepts like “good” and “evil” and represent duality in an alien manner that to a casual observer could be mistaken for some objective statement about morality, but they’re both wrong to us from our perspective as humans with human morals. the choice of candy and meat from the beginning was a cherub one. that’s not a balanced meal! that’s not even a reasonable dichotomy for humans! meat is not more real or “canon” than candy was, both of them are very flawed stories being manned at the helm by omnipotent green aliens.

okay we’re ALMOST done here, i just want to touch on the actual authors of the narrative rather than the ones the narrative insists are its narrators. by which i mean the actual real life human beings who wrote the epilogue. the point i was making above about how dirk doesn’t have any agency? the point of these epilogues were that none of the characters have any agency in their stories. every work is a reflection of its author, even when aforementioned authors are hiding behind pseudoauthors on a narrative level.

the homestuck epilogues feel very meanspirited to me. they punish their readers for not understanding their intentionally heavyhanded meta. homestuck was always very meta, but it was also fun. this, on the other hand, wasn’t fun. i haven’t seen anyone claim that the epilogues were a “fun” read, even those who enjoyed them enjoy them on the basis that “tragedy is a valid form of art,” and,,, ........and their opinions are. valid. and they can have them. sure.

but for those of us who read stories in order to enjoy them, which i am safely assuming makes up the majority of those who read homestuck, the homestuck epilogues are like a final kick in the teeth as a send off to a fandom with barely any teeth left to lose. we’re already having people who refuse to read them, and god i wish that were me, but it’s also.,, you can’t criticize something properly if you haven’t read it. we’re going to see a lot of very bad takes in the coming days about all kinds of things from information proliferating through the grapevine, and personally, i am not looking forward to it. i really hope this is the end, that homestuck is finally fucking over, and the epilogues are done with and we can all live our lives unmarred by strange orange men with typewriters. i’m going to hole up with my cool and new webcomic music albums and all of the good novel-length dirk-centric fic i’ve bookmarked over the years and wait this one out. i invite you to do the same.

cool and new webcomic bandcamp | cool and new greatest hits | my personal favorite album by them

detective pony by sonnetstuck (seriously please read this it watered my crops and cured my lead poisoning)

literally anything by callmearcturus but this is my personal favorite (chamomile, rosewater, and other unlikely intoxicants)

this long winded discworld joke by oxfordroulette that inflicted me with a terminal case of loving jake english despite it being a dirkjohn fic (vanitas vanitatum) also if you finish reading this one and also succumbed to loving jake english, i’m not going to link it but they have another fic that’ll scratch that itch for you. that’s all i’ll say on that matter.

this fic said nonverbal autistic dirk rights and thank god (we were made for another world by princex_n)

thanks for reading

[bladekindeyewear]

Boots Reads Homestuck Epilogue(s) Part 14 - Candy Page 27

==>

Alright, back from a brief excursion.  I really, REALLY wanna fucking finish this.  I want to see ROXY UNZOMBIFIED goddamnit, or at least get a REASON for her zombification, even if it’s just some Dirk-like villain who just cliffhangers himself away like a fucking asshole.

Also, comment on John’s whole rant... I guess John DID kind of want to be important.  Or... well, not “important” per se, but rather at least impactful in his friends’ lives.  It feels like they’re all walking dead through their own unsolved problems, trying to put on a pretty face, and nothing he tries to do matters, even attempted kidnapping.  He feels as useless as Dirk THINKS he is, but he never really was.  Gosh, I wish he’d pulled off that absurd kidnapping.  Freeing people from this sort of thing is supposed to kind of be his jam?

Okay, reading the new page.

FUCK.  TEN YEARS???????

Pff, John’s kid and sorta!Vriska.  Yeah I can buy that.

Also I love how they type out “Harry Anderson” every single time as his full first goddamn name.

--God damnit, how is Gamzee still fucking things up ten years later?  Hasn’t someone considered killing him?

Karkat and Meenah, also unsurprising.  Too bad Dave has to die unsatisfied.  >:(

Hm... this sorta!Vriska also has a weird Capitalization Quirk for Important Words, huh?  --Oh right, Kanaya raised her.  That might do it.

Hm, eyepatch?

Alright, the world’s falling into chaos.  Did the world HAVE to fucking fall into chaos in BOTH TIMELINES where these supposedly-went-through-a-successful-journey heroes managed to eek out victory despite opposing reality’s greatest tyrant?  Pfuh.

--and right.  Alt!Callie reinforces the idea that even though this possibility “wasn’t canon” -- which... means Meat is?? D: -- that the lives within still matter when looked at within their own bubble.

JADE: while abstracted heavily, and fully freed from all forces of narrative gravity, these events still represent possibilities that slept within the hearts of all who reside here.

Mhmm, part of an extension of themselves, their uniqueness, their hopes and dreams and... whatever WHOEVER did to fuck Roxy over.  Jesus DICK what’s happened to her I need to know you’d better fix this.

And somewhere within that mess, John Egbert is the best man at Jade and Dave’s wedding. He lasts nearly two hours before he gets a ruinous case of the sniffles.

Maybe they worked it out into ALMOST full mutual love?  Even if Dave’s 70% gayness goes totally unsatisfied?  I mean, I can hope, right?  :(

Dammit, Jade, couldn’t you have done this properly?  :C

and everyone knows that John has lost his family to Jane Crocker.

What the shit?!???

What drove Roxy away was him being depressed and just an all-around huge wet blanket who was impossible to live with. John is totally ready to own the fact that he was a bad husband, but maybe not the fact that he was a bad enough husband to drive his wife to passively support a brewing genocidal dictatorship. She looks happier, though, whenever he’s caught sight of her behind Jane—Calliope faithfully at her side—in any of the propaganda broadcasts that Jane passes off as business press conferences. By the time Roxy finally cut things off between them, he hadn’t personally seen her smile in years.

WHAT.  THE.  SHIT.

WHY DID ROXY DO ALL THIS THEN.  WHY DID SHE OF ALL PEOPLE, ONE OF THE MOST FORCEFUL AND SMART AND COOL--- GUHHH SHE JUST VOIDED HER WILL JUST OUT OF OBLIGATION TO JOHN OR SOMETHING?????????? WHAT THE FUCK WHYYYYYYY

Characters choke.  Characters make bad decisions.  That’s fair.  Andrew’s said that before.  But John was VISIBLY RECOGNIZING HOW OUT OF CHARACTER ROXY WAS ACTING.  WHYYYYYYYYY DID IT HAPPEN, WHY SUDDENLY DECADES OF MISHANDLED RELATIONSHIP WITH ABSOLUTELY NOBODY POINTING OUT THE OBVIOUS WHAT THE FUCK.  AND ROXY WAS THE ONE WHO STARTED IT AND PUSHED INTO JOHN UNTIL HE ACCEPTED.  WHY.

WHY.

Read.  Calm down.  Read.  There had better be.  A FUCKING.  ANSWER.

Hi military rebellion leader Karkat.

KARKAT: OH MY GOD JOHN, STOP BEING SO FUCKING PATHETIC FOR JUST A MINUTE. COULD YOU DO THAT FOR ME? JOHN: i don’t know. that’s a pretty big favor you’re asking me there, karkat.

heheh

JOHN: i dunno. it doesn’t seem responsible, really... to dedicate my life to something so important when i’m in a place where i can’t even find the energy to think that getting out of bed in the morning is “important.”

Depression stuff, yeah.

John really needs a psychologist who isn’t just Rose.

pff, yifftrain.

That’s how the years pass. Faster and faster the longer it goes. 

What.  The.  Fuck.

We’re not going to get any answers are we.  Roxy just acted out of character for no reason, didn’t she.  This is-- no, Andrew’s too GOOD at this for that to-- I mean--  is there a big answer he’s just not telling us-- FUCK!!!!  D:

AAAAAAAA

This sucks.  This sucks this sucks this SUCKS.  But I’ll keep reading.  I have to know.  If I’m ever going to be able to stand, like, i dunno... homestuck rp i guess? i should probably keep reading.  and hope i recover.  eventually.

But that’s only part of it. Above this Earth, the dead cherub is still meditating, waiting for the day when she can have her own heroic apotheosis. Waiting for the day when she can confront the one she calls the Prince. And on this Earth, John is just waiting for the day that feeling finally stops. That feeling that he’s still waiting for something, and the even worse feeling that years ago, he missed his only chance to put an end to it. If you stand on a very high hill at dawn, you can watch your shadow move in an arc around you.

Yeah, reinforcing that John would be happier in the timeline where he did something and -- at least temporarily, since there’s hope of future revival -- “died” because of it, even if he wasn’t clear on why what he was trying to do even really mattered in the whole scheme of things.

...which is pretty weird when you consider the ending of Homestuck didn’t try to express that messa-- no, wait.  I guess it did?

Yes, everyone went to the post-victory planet to live out indefinite lives, but there WAS still the stage play.  Proving that John, at least, WOULD eventually step outside the happy ending to instead risk his life doing something important.  They earned both possibilities, really, to choose from at their will.

...Aren’t there another dozen pages or so left in this Candy segment, though??  Are we gonna follow their kids or something?

==>

...Okay so stuff still needs to happen here, plotways.  Good.  I think.

A flash above the clouds catches John’s attention: another ghost, falling down from wherever it is they come from. John follows after the light with an exhausted sigh. The novelty of dead trolls falling from the sky has really worn off over the years. But he might as well go warn the new arrival that they’ve landed in the middle of an imminent warzone. He sets down at the edge of the crater and peers through the smoke.

He recognizes the ghost immediately, because he sees a younger version of her almost every day.

JOHN: vriska?

Vriska’s face snaps up, eyes blazing. Eyes. Actual eyes, with expression, color, pupils, and everything.

JOHN: wait. you’re... JOHN: alive??

PFFFFFFhahahahah!

That’s pretty hilarious.  Vriska fell into the singularity and popped out here.

...Yeah, you can’t stand having missed the most “important” bit, can you.  Too bad.  You didn’t have the spotlight in the end.

==>

JADE: it is the one i have been waiting for all these years. JADE: we have run along parallel lines for what may as well be eternity, but my gravitational well has finally ensnared him. JADE: and now he is due to fall into this world.

Uhh, who?  Davebot or something, from the postscript?  Couldn’t be Gamzee, unless it’s, like... a different Gamzee.

“Chaos war”?  That’s a dramatic title.

==>

Hmm, reading reading...

Will Dad’s passing knock any sense into you?  Probably not.

...yeah, it wasn’t going to be that easy, was it?

Of course.  Of course Dad died saving the President.

Although, she’s going to assign fault to Karkat and then want to start a full bloody war over it, so, the opposite of having sense knocked into her then.

JANE: UGH! JANE: That... that fool!! JANE: I can’t believe that he would do this! JANE: How could he do this to me!?! JAKE: Janey... JANE: The human president could be anyone! JANE: My dad can’t be anyone but him!

Jane, you’ve become a real asshole.  :(

...Fuck you Gamzee.

GAMZEE: hEy. GAMZEE: Do YoU tHiNk ThAt MiGhT bE a BiT mOtHeRfUcKinG xEnOpHoBiC?

PFFFFHAHAHAHAHAAHAHhhh oh my GOD :’D

JANE: What? You think appealing to me with your disgusting little addiction is going to sway me?

Oh Jesus Christ that’s horrifying.  THAT’s what’s been going on.  I don’t want to visualize it, dear lord.

==>

Hahahah, catching Vriska up.  She’s practically curling up in a ball like Squidward in future shock.

PFFF PUTTING PARENS AROUND HER NAME SHE CAN’T STAND BEING IRRELEVANTIZED LIKE THAT

JOHN: i was supposed to go fight lord english, but i didn’t. so now we’ve gone beyond, like, the event horizon of canon. (VRISKA): What the fuck does that even MEAN????????

Wait, shouldn’t YOU know exactly what that means, Vriska?  Like, better than most people at least?

JOHN: all i know is that all of this is my fault.

:(

JOHN: it’s been turning around in my head like this for a while. i thought... JOHN: why does everything here fucking SUCK so much? JOHN: how the hell did we even make it from point A to point festering clusterfuck? JOHN: it doesn’t follow any kind of logic i understand, or any sort of basic sense i have about who we are as people... JOHN: and why? why have we all ended up so unhappy and... twisted up?

Yeah, a BUNCH of people have acted really goddamn out of character and it’s unclear why.

JOHN: i got everything i wanted. everyone got what they— JOHN: what i thought they wanted. JOHN: and that’s just it, isn’t it? JOHN: the more i think about it, i’m the only factor that matters to anything.

--What?!?  No!!!  You could SEE that this wasn’t what you thought they wanted right from the get-go.  It couldn’t have been YOUR imagination that this realm of alternative possibility was drawn from, could it?  D:

JOHN: whatever i did, or didn’t do, just... destroyed reality’s ability to, like, substantiate itself, or whatever. JOHN: like there’s a bug in the operating system of whatever force in this world that regulates cause and effect. JOHN: everything’s been unraveling. nothing that happens makes sense anymore. JOHN: and now i’m the only person out here who’s even real at all! JOHN: hahahaha.

That’s certainly an idea at least, that people started acting out of character as we went further from “canon”.  In fact, it’s kind of a slam at fanfics, maybe?  Acknowledging that they distort the characters by understanding them in different ways, sometimes, and.. hm.

(VRISKA): Hahahahahahahaha... Wow, I’ve never seen a guy get his 8ulge all the way down his own swallow chute 8efore! JOHN: wait, what? (VRISKA): Good fuck. Do you actually think reality gives that much of a shit a8out you? (VRISKA): Get real, Eg8ert. (VRISKA): It’s not like you’re me. JOHN: ok, well. JOHN: that’s fair i guess.

Heheheh.  ...Yeah, Vriska might pep talk him out of this self-deprecating theory of his.  Besides, I mean... is that the ONLY cause for this whole fucking situation?  That Roxy’s will got eroded to nothing arbitrarily either at random in a glitching non-canon timeline or because John kind of maybe thought something was going to happen and reality decided to run with it??

...heheh, “batterpanzers”.

I’m pretty sure caring what “c8non” is supposed to be is EXACTLY the thing you’re freaking out about, Vriska, whether you realize it or not.

Oooh, Gamzee.  Do we get to see Vriska kill him?

Yeaaah... redemption ain’t for THIS sp8der.  The ghost version of Vriska got the closest thing to redemption she’ll ever get; THIS version never learned any damn lessons and is not going to accept that she ever NEEDS to.  Also, you said her name in relevance-reducing parentheses.  Bad move.

==>

Yaaaay here’s the bunch of indigo blood we were promised!! :D

Where’s the nudity though? Maybe that’s coming.

He yowls as if he had actual testicles to be mauled, and for all anyone knows, maybe he really does.

It’s reassuring to see that while Andrew is more than willing to give us WAY too much genital detail in some cases throughout this epilogue, he still knows how to deftly exploit the parts of anatomy that still AREN’T explicitly characterized and remain intentionally vague for their impactful resulting humor.  :)

She lunges at Gamzee’s catastrophic face lips-first, and practically dives into his mouth, ramming her tongue into his

NOOO FUCK HE WAS ABOUT TO DIE AAAAAA D’:

FUCK  :(

Okay, back on to anything but this.

==>

Oh shit, double Vriska.  This might be bad.

...Phew.  Nice save, John.

JOHN: ha ha. yeah, right. because this is real life, right? JOHN: i guess reading narrative relevance into a bunch of dumb and totally random events is kind of lame and childish. ROSE: No, that isn’t what I meant at all. ROSE: By all means, apply a narrative to our lives. Up until a certain point, it would have been perfectly accurate to do so. ROSE: But not anymore. JOHN: because... it’s not canon, right? ROSE: Do you remember what I told you years ago? About the three pillars of canon?

Wuh-oh.

ROSE: As I explained to you on that morning sixteen years ago, there are three critical features of canon: essentiality, relevance, and truth. JOHN: yeah. ROSE: We have been untethered from the mooring of “truth” for some time now. ROSE: So while we, in our subjective experiences of conscious perception, feel in this moment that we have known each other for a very long time, technically it’s not true at all.

...Okay.  Okay.

So.  Were, like.

Roxy and Calliope affected by the, like... “untruth wave” of his choice not to go the hardest, because he made it in their vicinity?  And that turned Roxy into a hypnozombie with minimal apparent free will? :C

...Oh wow.  She’s thanking John that she got a chance to be happy in this side timeline, even if so many other people suffered.  Because of the fucking hell Dirk was about to unleash on her in the Meat timeline.  Fuck.

ROSE: In the silly wizard story I wrote when I was a child, ROSE: The realm most comparable to heaven existed in a state of subliminal conditionality, dependent on the inscience of the individual experiencing it. ROSE: Which is to say that it would cease to exist the moment you realized what it was. ROSE: And so, those with knowledge could never truly be happy.

Oh wow, huh.  Yeah, knowing you’re just in a fanfic kind of screws your appreciation for life around you, huh.  So John got fucked over a bit by his metatextual awareness.  :(

And... Rose was, like, cut off by his choice from her own metatextual awakening, maybe?  Hence her ability to appreciate a life somewhere disconnected from anything “canon”?

ROSE: But that isn’t me anymore. ROSE: I am blind against the veil of this world. ROSE: It’s all ambrosia to me. ROSE: I don’t care if it’s not true. I care even less if it’s not canon. ROSE: I have a beautiful wife who I love more than I thought possible, and a daughter who I am immeasurably proud of. ROSE: It can all be senseless, ephemeral noise that dissolves in the void. A whisper swept up by the wind before it’s uttered. ROSE: I’m still grateful to have felt this way.

:’)

Alright, this might be a pretty good way of accepting their potential happiness in different timelines as a potential substitute for Dirk’s mess.  I’m not sure HOW well I’ll be able to internalize it to stop the stomach cramps, but we’ll see.

We still have a little bit more left, though.  Next post.

[blaperile]

Homestuck Epilogues - Meat - Page 16 (Epilogue 3 Page 3)

[abundantchewtoys]

HS Epi: Meat p10 reaction

So, with little fanfare, we've passed the point in time that is the Masterpiece.

I wonder if John's next interaction with the outside world will be granting himself retcon powers, or whether from his perspective the next thing is being summoned by Vriska. That being said, I wonder how Vriska will react to seeing these people emerge from the house artefact, you'd think she'd be very surprised. Will John & co. have felt it to be hours from their perspective, being trapped? Or longer? Can't have been years, or their relative age difference wouldn't matter any more.

Also, is Davepetasprite^2 nearby for their confrontation with LE? If not, this definitely won't be the final showoff! But if she is, well... I wonder how things turn out, this almost can't already be it for Lord English. Then again, if the perspective now switches back to Earth C for a long time, by the time we switch back the plot could be culminating.

I also wonder if there will be any interaction with the people outside the Black Hole's event horizon (I know, contradiction in termini there). Like, post-retcon Aradia, who'd been watching the mayhem unfold.

---

"Jane Crocker sweeps into her office" Well then. That answers that. Mary Poppins-style entry for them, then? :P Courtyard Droll isn't around to be wielding an umbrella, fortunately.

I'm interested to get a good look into her mind, given all we've heard said about the state of Earth C, and Dave's mistrust in her. Also wondering how her relationship with her Dad has evolved over the years. Wouldn't at all be surprised if he was still leaving supportive notes as well as confectionary in her office.

Blaperile has a good point, Dirk might be coming around, being her campaign manager. Their relationship was always interesting, due to the similarities to as well as the differences with John & Dave's.

"The sun cuts through her venetian blinds, painting butter-yellow strips of light all the way from one end of her impeccably tailored office to the other." In other words, exactly the state in which a private investigator likes their office to brood. :P Stations may change but demeanors don't do as quickly.

"It’s a lovely day, like most days, so not terribly remarkable except for the horrid news that she has just received at her customary morning press conference." There's competition afoot and its name is Vantas.

"[Jane] brushes her hands over her hips to smooth the wrinkles out of her powder-blue pencil skirt. Then she hems, haws, puffs out her cheeks, and takes a very deep breath before snatching a pillow off the nearest couch so that she can scream into it." So majestic. And such a Jane thing to do, too (even though Rose started the whole screaming into pillows for Homestuck), remember the time she was being 'supportive' when Jake was contemplating Dirk's affections? Both times, really.

"There are, surely, a multitude of ways for a person to find out that an acquaintance is running against you in a presidential election. From a carapacian reporter, in front of twenty-six other members of the interspecies press, was not the method Jane would have personally chosen." Welp. Well, yeah, it stood to reason Dave wasn't going to say anything, given his misgivings about her. 27 reporters, huh. Kinda wondering about how representative they were to the entirety of the populace. All the bigwig stations must've been represented, of course, but then it would seem humanity has an overly large representation in those already.

"She cannot believe that Karkat would do this to her. This is no longer a political fiat (which the election would surely have been had she run uncontested by any other civilization-founding celebrities) but rather a battle between “friends.” What did Vantas think he was doing?" Well, uh, it seems that he's giving you fair competition where you seemed to be of the idea there wouldn't be any. That's not really a good starting point for a politician, Jane. Seems like her business-minded attitude is indeed influencing her campaign strategy.

"This could not have possibly been Karkat’s idea." Yeah, I'd thought she'd be on to it quickly.

"He is not cut out for politics, neither intellectually nor in the very important matter of social constitution. Certainly not when it comes to economic policy. In fact, Jane is pretty sure that Karkat Vantas would probably literally burst into flame if too many people happened to look at him at the same time, like a vampire walking out into the sun." I was going to say that's unfair of her, but then she's never known Karkat when he's aflame with purpose, only the Karkat that's been hurt too much and suffered too many losses to remain motivated. Also, of course she'd "think of the economy" first. :P That's hilarious given Dave's concerns.

"Wait. Jane lowers the pillow from her face and stares at her brass-and-glass art deco ceiling. Was that vampire thing xenophobic against Kanaya?" Well, at least we know that IF Jane's really xenophobic, as Dave fears, she's trying to become aware of when she is and doing something about it. Of course, trying and succeeding are two different things - just as Karkat.

As for it being hurtful, well... Good thing she never met Game Over Kanaya, she might have had some objections to death-by-light-from-above.

"Dave was certainly no Dirk Strider, no Rose Lalonde, no Roxy, but he had that same scheming gene, buried deep down beneath his transparent onion layers of posturing and, frankly, rather outdated humor. An instinct to plan." Well, I wouldn't have said as much - if it was genetically determined there's no reason Dave couldn't have just not inherited those genes. But then, I'm all here to see Dave's take on scheming, sure. He's had a great example in John planting ideas about apple juice in his head. The bar is already set.

"And despite being inarguably the dimmest of his family’s impressive ecto-biological stock...

Oh, dear. Stock. That’s likely a problematic word, isn’t it?" Yep, seems like Jane really is trying. Can't believe I'm saying this, but if Kankri were here, he might have some good advice for her. A lot of bad, too, but still.

"Despite being the least mentally gifted member of his family" Eesh, okay, but she's still got a lot of prejudices to work out.

"Dave has always had an awful lot of opinions on the economy. In fact, Jane cannot remember a single conversation she’s ever had with him that wasn’t about the economy. She thinks back to one time at John’s eighteenth birthday when Dave engaged her in a rigorous and rather one-sided debate about deregulation and the failure of “neoliberal austerity measures” until Karkat had to come over and put his hands over his roommate’s mouth to make him stop talking." Well, I guess he's really, REALLY concerned. Can't blame the guy, though, but poor Jane, Rose knows what that's like, being on the other side of that trailing, lumbering monologuing. At least Rose's monologue's don't meander. :P

"carapacians were widely known to be swayed by underdog populism." That's because their civilisation was founded by WV, isn't it?

"And the consorts? Who had even given them the right to vote in the first place? In any other year..." Oh, so... Does that mean the consorts only got their right to vote so recently, after 5000 years. That's... Well, that might just be indicative that until recently, their political activism was nothing to write home about.

Jane starts to chew a pencil and it's just so FITTING for her, she's so fidgety, it's probably how Jade ended up being so giddy.

"In any other year, this wouldn’t be a problem. She’d be happy to accept a graceful, temporary defeat and let Karkat play president for a couple of years. After all, unlike her, he was not immortal." ... Eesh, so, yeah, that confirms that Karkat's godhood isn't expected to be eternal, unlike the humans. They could be wrong about it.

But what is so special about the current year, is the political situation on Earth C THAT volatile, or is Jane aware of things about to unfold on a cosmic scale - or even pan-cosmic, if she knows about the events back in canon with the Black Hole 'n all.

"But Earth C’s paper-thin idyllic history was very close to a boiling point—its very first boiling point, in fact, which will have everything to do with the problematic nature of troll reproduction." Ahhhh, right. So that's why she's aiming for the reigns. Didn't think her 'political takeover' had so moral reasons. ... Or, well, at least humanitarian.

"The first generation of natural-born trolls obviously cannot be entrusted to a troll." ...

Well that's just cruel. I know she'll have reasons given troll history on Alternia and B2 Earth alike, but it's their purpose as gods to change the world for the better, together.

Guess now we get to see the parts of her thinking that gave Dave reason to brand her a fascist, semi-serious or not.

"The citizens of Earth C were able to rest easy knowing that the government held careful rein over the... well, over matters of equity. No one could possibly trust something so important to a troll, knowing what everyone knew about their violent history." So it's the hemospectrum she fears would be reinstated. She's equating their biology with their ideology then, thinking natural-born trolls are fundamentally more oppressive as to those birthed through scientific means. Oooh boy. That's a whole steaming pot of problematic thinking.

"Jane presses her eyes shut and runs her fingers along the fine-grain patterns in her mahogany-paneled desk. She is about to think something that she has promised herself never to think again. In fact, she is about to say it—this horrible, ghoulish, girlish thought that used to rule her world and make her so terribly weak. The shameful thought is expressed out loud in the form of a defeated sigh." ... Is it... "I wish Dad was here?" Even if he's still alive, she might have tried to become her own woman, cutting more ties than is healthy.

"JANE: I need Jake." Pfffff, okay, yeah, that I understand. She needs his support to swing the voters. Guess Jane is also trying very hard to be "over him", just like Jake with Dirk. I can see how well that is going for her. Now I wonder how the Nannasprites are doing.

"She spins around and, still sitting on her desk, presses a familiar entry on her phone’s contact list." Either it's Jake and it's familiar to her because she still looks at it ten times every day, or Dirk's because they get along so well and are working together on her campaign.

"JAKE: Ahoy ahoy!" ... Yeah, this is going to be so cumbersome for Jane, I can just feel it, her old feelings now causing quite the opposite response towards everything that makes Jake who he is.

"the ol’ horse tranquilizer trick." Just... just how many times has Dirk pulled this on him already? And how many more times is Jake willing to go through with their show?

"JAKE: Which i suppose i should have seen coming, as dirk has ended all of our matches in this fashion for the past week." ... Jake. Jake, honey, you need a coach. A non-robotic one. Or settle for a non-shitty spirit guide. I know that narrows it down to basically zero, as far as sprites are concerned, but still.

"JANE: Oh dear. That sounds absolutely terrible, Jake. Is there anything I can do to help?" I wouldn't like it if Jane keeps pretending to care for Jake if there wasn't any truth left to the gesture.

"JAKE: Help? Gadzooks woman! I hardly think myself in need of help. JAKE: Its a jolly good adventure working with someone so predictably unpredictable as our good friend dirk!" Then again, it would be hard not to get exasperated by all of this... airheadedness, well meaning as it is.

"You would think that Jake enjoyed the sadomasochistic nature of his and Dirk’s personal and professional relationships. Judging from the last conversation about election strategy with Dirk, he seems to be perfectly aware of this feature of Jake’s personality. You can’t be too nice when courting his endorsement, Dirk would say. He doesn’t respond to nice." So Dirk is still being rather methodical in his interactions with Jake. :/ But I mean, Jake does respond better to challenges, at least initially. He appears not be scared off/by Dirk though, I wonder how he's worked through his feelings about their breakup?

"something big and hollow and metal connecting with Jake’s head. When Jake comes back to the phone, he’s yelling into it." Jake's life is just like a cartoon on even the best of days, isn't it?

"I appreciate very much that you have called me out of the blue to say such nice things to me with no ulterior motive!

From anyone else, this would have been a portentous statement. However, Jane knows that Jake English could not have possibly meant this with anything but the utmost sincerity." Well, I wouldn't mind it for Jake to have developed a level of self-awareness, but yeah... That's unlikely by now, isn't it?

"JAKE: Because i must note that although i try to stay sporting about what comes at me, i cant say that i am chuffed about how much of my correspondence lately has to do with the marketing of my image. JAKE: Its beginning to feel like all people want from me is to stick my derriere on a signpost for their own profit." ... Well, okay, he's become self-aware to the extent he realizes people idolize him and pine for his affections. But that's just because he was so very much affected by that during the session. It'll take a lot longer for him to pick up on more subtle and rarer things, though.

"It must be so difficult. For you more than the rest of us, due to your, let’s say... JANE: Natural gifts? JAKE: Huh?" Well, guess he doesn't realize his good looks yet, at least.

"JANE: But you know that I have always wanted what’s best for you, right? JANE: And I am ready to give that to you. JAKE: To give me what? JANE: The best, Jake. The very best." That could be very ominous, "what's best for you". But what would it be if it were sincere? A way to follow in his Grandma's footsteps, while ensuring he doesn't blunder and blow up anyting unintentionally?"

Jake is quiet a moment, and Jane can hear the rusty gears turning in his head." Insert "*thinking*" smiley here.

"JANE: You should stop by to see me this evening! JAKE: Do you mean my evening or yours? Were in different time zones right now and i dare say that the sun just went down here so if you wanted to have a soiree on my time youve missed your chance." It'd be a fair question, assuming Jane could've been in his neighbourhood. I'm sure their meetup won't go quite as nefarious as pretending they're dating to the press, right? ... Right, Jane?"

Jane feels her fake smile flexing so hard that it was beginning to hurt. Oh yes, she loved this man in basically every category that you could possibly love a person, but sometimes talking to him is like trying to build a house of cards while riding a mechanical bull." Ah, so they were facetiming? :P Note the past tense in 'loved'. :/ Well, old flames do still elicit feelings of friendship, a lot of times.

"JANE: Mine, of course! I’ll have the best year of your favorite crocodile-made scotch flown in from the Consort Kingdom and we’ll have a little catch-up.

Jake actually hates scotch, and only drinks it for appearance’s sake. But for this—for this unbelievably pivotal moment in the history of the planet that they created with their bare hands—Jane is willing to spend a few thousand boonbucks to watch her old friend pretend to sip at the same glass for a couple of hours while prattling on." So: A) Crocodiles might be living in Scotland, if the scotch authentic. Highlander Crocs in kilts and playing bagpipes. Glorious. B) Boonbucks are the currency running the economy, which explains how they can all be so rich. Of course, their influx of cash could've disrupted the economy, but if it had Dave's would've already complained about it. C) Guess there's never been something as disruptive to happen to Earth C as the Mother Grub, then. Not even natural disasters. D) Plan Fake Date is apparently, actually going to happen.

"Time to work your magic, Crocker." Magic being ruthless business-minded political scheming, I hope. Since she's serving Jake drinks he doesn't like, it'll all be for pretense, down to the drinks too. But I wouldn't like to be in Jake's shoes if she starts to fake-fancying him.

[ask-the-seer-of-breath]

Troll Romance Analysis

Hi there, welcome to my analysis on Troll Romance! This is a remake of my previous Romance analysis. I felt it was getting old and that I can write it much better than before. Long post incoming.

Contents

Troll society and sexuality

Troll emotions

Troll relationships

Troll romance and its social role

The Romance Quadrants

Matespritship: The flused quadrant

Kismesissitude: the caliginous quadrant

Moirallegiance: the pale quadrant

Auspistism: the ashen quadrant

Examples from Homestuck

Examples out of the comic

Please note that this analysis has quotes and examples from the comic and thus spoilers. Read under the cut only if you are ready for them.

Troll society and sexuality

Let us start by leaving something clear: Trolls are a violent race.

I’m not saying that they are incapable of feeling joy and attachement. They understand feelings different. Trolls live in a society built for galaxy conquist and massive repoblation.

Also note that even when they hold sexual activity, it does not have the social relevance ours has. This is because it is the Mother Grub who carries the duty of hatching the next generation of trolls. Sexual encounter is a social obligation every sexual troll couple has. They are to give genetic material to the Mother Grub, getting killed if they deny the fluids.

A consequence of this birth system is that genders have no differences. Unlike humans who reduced their ideas to gender roles beause of birth. Trolls are all bisexual by default. Some develop preferences for certain gender, but that is personal. I will leave you with the words of Karkat reacting to homosexuality, see how alien it is for them:

KARKAT: HUMANS HAVE A WORD FOR THAT?

This does not mean Trolls can’t have specific sexualities or genders! And this is canon. Go on into the  LGTBA+ side of trolls, and it is pretty much the same as with humans. Everyone is different and valid.

Troll emotions

Now that we are quoting Karkat, he explains that a troll understands their feelings as hate and pity. Everything else is a hue between that.

KARKAT: A WELL BALANCED PERSON [TROLL] IS GOING TO HAVE A GOOD DISTRIBUTION BETWEEN HATE AND THE VARIOUS PITY HUMORS. HAVING A GOOD BALANCE KEEPS ALL THE EMOTIONS SHARPER.

Here, Karkat is analyzing how the chemistry of troll relationships stays interesting. He talks about a balance that the troll must have. That way their relationships can be succesfull and fulfilling.

Troll relationships

The word Trolls have for Friend is the same they have for Enemy, and they consider it a social desease. Or at least their goverment does. Some migth know each other and become comrades, pals, buddies. Occasionally, their relationships will develop feelings from deep into the pity humors. Happiness, Peace, Regard. Or could get violent and salty, all the way into the hate hues. Anger, Jealousy, Worry.

These feelings are called romantic, and they can either save or ruin their lives. Remember social obligations? These emotions are so complicated for trolls, that they have to organize them in a Quadrant system. Even give them a specific role that serves a social purpose too!

Troll romance and its social role

There are two kinds of romantic relationships in Troll society: concupiscent and conciliatory. The concupiscent relationships are for troll fluid production due sexual activity. Conciliatory relationships mean to help them balance their social status and emotions.

As we talked before, the need to seek a concupiscent partner comes with more urgece than typical reproductive instincts. It is a social obligation:

When the IMPERIAL DRONE comes knocking, you had better be able to supply genetic material to each of his FILIAL PAILS. If you have nothing to offer, he will kill you without hesitation.

You either give genetic fluids or die. So trolls better fill those quadrants, and then they can start filling buckets.

The conciliatory relationships, on the other hand, have nothing to do with reproduction. They're explained as “human platonic feelings” to us. Their main function is the mainteniance of the social structure of trolls. The race with violent tendencies we keep calling out.

Most trolls are very agressive. Getting out of crontrol will not help them fullfil their role in society assigned by blood. In the worst case scenario, if they don’t have a proper conciliatory partner, they could fail to have balanced feelings. Their emotions get so out of control, that they could fail in their entire romantic experience. Filling no quadrants, nor buckets. And then dying.

Let us put a very strong example at this point of the analysis: Eridan Ampora. Flirty boy, geeky, wears a cape, highblood. Most of the time he rummaged for a conscupiscent partner, even asked Feferi. His conciliatory relationship failed in consequence, even when it could have worked out. As a result, his emotions went out of control. He did not know wich feelings he had to listen to, and as a result he betrayed his teammates. He kept doing what he had always done, even after Alternia was destroyed: trying hard to not get killed.

The Romance Quadrants

The two kinds of relationships we just talked about can develop in both hate and pity humors. Romantically, they are called black feelings and red feelings, respectively.

A Red Cocupiscent relationship represents the Flushed Quadrant. The romance is called Matespritship, and it is considered the equal of human romance. Altough it isn’t completely.

A Black Concupiscent relationship represents the Caliginous Quadrant. The romance is called Kismesissitude, and most humans fail to understand it. Wich is justifyed. 

A Red Conciliatory relationship represents the Pale Quadrant. The romance is called Moirallegiance, and it is similar to what a human calls ‘soulmate’. 

A Black Conciliatory relationship represents the Ashen Quadrant. The roamnce is called Auspistism, and it is not meant for couples but for trios.

Of course, we are going deep on each of the quadrants! But hold your horses. Before explaining them all, I have to describe troll infidelity and vacilation. At this point you must be baffled at how complicated and confusing is Troll Romance. Do not worry, Trolls hardly get it too! 

Vacilating is going from Flushed to Caliginous romance and the other way around. This happens on relationships were the feelings of both partners are very conflcited, and can’t stand in one quadrant. So they have to jump to the other one and viceversa. Now I must warn you, that infidelities on troll society don’t stay back and are as weird as everything else. They consist in a system of flushed/caliginous infidelities. And are constantly shifting in a romantic quadrangle. What is that? You were thinking of a love triangle? Oh, no. Not at all, my sweet little human worm. Here I present you the Troll Vacillating Quadrangle! You will now observe for some minutes the following image taken from the wiki and meditate about it.

In this chain of infidelity you need at least four trolls. They are going to be vacillating their relationships in a neverending cycle. And for now, that is all that there is to say on the matter. Until Andrew Hussie provides us with one of those Troll literature pieces of rom-com that Karkat likes so much. I bet they are interesting.

Matespritship: The flused quadrant

Troll romance gets very close to Human romance here, but not quite there. You see, think of human romance as a trascendance of Troll Quadrants. Involving many Troll romances at the same time. Wich is more than weird for Trolls, who have enough with having specific feelings for someone.

A Matespritship takes place when two trolls pity each other. Not balancing their feelings, but rather creating feelings on each other! Something they have not felt with other troll, something different. An attachement that makes their body warm and makes them want to stay with their partner forever. And be happy together.

In this relationship, trolls also conceid their partner someone to fill a bucket with. That way neither of them has to die by the metallic hands of an Imperial Drone. Yay.

Notice how they do not share their emotions between them. They only provoke feelings on each other!

Kismesissitude: the caliginous quadrant

What is hate? Is it despising something so much that you don’t want to see it, ever? Or could it be respecting certain aspects of it, but you still despise the object. Wich makes you feel deeply conflicted? Ok, forget the philosophy. Kismesissitudes are not about hate. You don’t want your partner dead, because:

1. This is a concupiscent relationship and you are supposed to fill a bucket with them. 2. That would not be interesting. 3. You actually like some aspects of your partner.

So yeah, this is the most dramatic Troll romance of all. Caliginous relationships go further than a simple rivalry. Besides of the despise that the couple feels, the relationship is something they want. As it's based around mutual respect.

Much like human rivalry, a kismesissitude can be about seeing who is the best. It is about respecting your partner, but their personality is infuriating for you. You actually think they are kind of ok too.

So remember this and never pull it out of your thinkpan: a Kismesissitude is not about killing, hurting or purely hating your partner. You don’t have relationships with someone you hate, that is not healthy. Kismesissitudes are about how interesting the relationship can get. About how great your partner can be, but oh boy, you have to be better. How can you keep pushing each other into having fun with your negative feelings for each other. But not actually letting them on the way on your opinions of each other. You know those cliche couples that don’t like each other but end up together anyways? Yeah, that’s kind of caliginous.

A Caliginous relationship is about frustration. Wich originates in crossed feelings for the partner. That’s a proper kismesissitude. And yes, they can work together, and carry on normal conversations. Just prepare for the kismessis flirts.

I will quote Karkat once more. He explained it all to John, when the human boy was naively talking about how he finds Terezi’s personality frustrating and annoying. Feelings developed while he followed her instructions through fixing the Alpha timeline. An John was starting to realize how he hates beign bossed around without explanation.

JOHN: i still think about the idea of black romance sometimes, and try to imagine how that really works… or “feels”… i don’t know. JOHN: do you understand it? DAVE: yeah ive spent enough time talkin about it where i think i “get it” but DAVE: ive never had cause or any real inclination to put it into practice or anything JOHN: mainly the idea of hating somebody, and translating that into attraction, or some kind of romancey feeling… it feels so alien to me. JOHN: and you’re right, i have a really hard time even hating anyone in the first place! DAVE: word JOHN: i mean, i get ANNOYED by people, sure. DAVE: like who DAVE: me? JOHN: no, not really. JOHN: well, sometimes, but not much. i always tended to exaggerate my grievances with you, for the sake of laughs. DAVE: heheh JOHN: a better example is, more recently, when i was doing my retcon mission… JOHN: i was getting REALLY annoyed with terezi and her mind games. DAVE: yuuup JOHN: it definitely never crossed the line to “hate” though, because we were working together to try and fix a dire situation, and even though she’s weird and insane, she’s otherwise a pretty good friend. JOHN: but all her needling and japes at totally inappropriate times, when there was so much on the line… JOHN: argh, it was SO FRUSTRATING. […] KARKAT: JOHN, ALL YOU’RE DOING HERE IS DESCRIBING THE SUBTLE FEELINGS WHICH PLANT THE SEED FOR HAVING A CALIGINOUS CRUSH ON SOMEONE. JOHN: what?? KARKAT: YOU HEARD ME. KARKAT: YOU ARE NAIVELY ADMITTING TO STRUGGLING WITH SOME BLACK FEELINGS FOR TEREZI. […] JOHN: but i don’t HATE her, and i’m sure i never will! JOHN: i’m just saying i find her, like, somewhat annoying, and REALLY aggravating a lot of the time, but that’s it KARKAT: BUT THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT THE FEELING IS! KARKAT: IT DOESN’T START OUT AS FULL BLOWN ANTIPATHY, AND IT RARELY EVEN REACHES SUCH AN EXTREME LEVEL OF HOSTILITY EVEN OVER LONG TERM BLACK RELATIONSHIPS. KARKAT: THERE ARE PEAKS TO IT, BUT OTHERWISE A GENERAL EBB AND FLOW TO THE DARK FEELINGS, JUST LIKE WITH FLUSHED RELATIONSHIPS. JOHN: ok, but… JOHN: i don’t know if i’m expressing myself clearly. JOHN: i felt aggravated by her a lot, but that doesn’t fully describe… JOHN: like, there were those “negative” feelings, but also… JOHN: but… KARKAT: YEAH, THAT’S IT, RIGHT THERE!!! KARKAT: THE “BUT” IS ALWAYS PART OF IT. KARKAT: WHAT YOU’RE *TRYING* TO SAY IS, YOU HAD FRUSTRATED, NEGATIVE EMOTIONS TOWARD HER, BUT THEY DON’T COMPREHENSIVELY ACCOUNT FOR YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARD HER. KARKAT: MEANING, THERE ARE SOME THINGS ABOUT HER YOU ACTUALLY LIKE, BUT THE NEGATIVE FEELINGS MAKE IT HARD FOR YOU TO PUT YOUR FINGER ON THEM, OR EVEN WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEM. KARKAT: THAT IS ABSOLUTELY STANDARD. WHAT GOOD WOULD IT BE HAVING A KISMESIS WHO DIDN’T POSSESS QUALITIES YOU ACTUALLY ADMIRED ON SOME LEVEL? KARKAT: THAT WOULD BE BORING, AND IT WOULDN’T EVEN WORK. THERE’D BE NO TENSION, NO PUSH AND PULL IN THE TURBULENT EMOTIONAL LANDSCAPE. THE SUBTLE POSITIVES ADD FUEL TO THE NEGATIVE FEELINGS, OFTEN GIVING THEM A REASON TO EXIST AT ALL. THEY INFLAME THE AGGRAVATING FACTORS, REMINDING YOU DEEP DOWN HOW MUCH YOU WOULD LIKE AND ADMIRE THIS PERSON IF IT WASN’T FOR ALL THEIR INFURIATING FLAWS, AND THE INCREDIBLE SENSE OF FRUSTRATION THAT CAUSES ALONG WITH ALL THE ASSOCIATED HOT-HEADED FEELINGS, THAT’S THE ESSENCE OF BLACK ROMANCE. KARKAT: AND THE POSITIVE QUALITIES YOU SEE DEEP DOWN IN A KISMESIS ALSO SERVE AS THE BASIS FOR RED FEELINGS TOWARD THAT PERSON, ASSUMING THE RELATIONSHIP EVER STARTS TO VACILLATE. KARKAT: IT’S ALL PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD, REALLY. JOHN: no… this is messed up! DAVE: i dunno john it all sounds pretty logical to me DAVE: karkat knows his shit when it comes to quadrants JOHN: argh! JOHN: it can’t be true though… JOHN: it feels so fucked up! JOHN: what if you’re right though… erg! no… JOHN: no, no, no, no… KARKAT: THAT’S PART OF IT TOO!! KARKAT: THE “NO NO NO” IS ALL PART OF THE FEELING. THAT’S HOW IT *ALWAYS* GOES. KARKAT: THIS SENSE OF SELF INCRIMINATION WHEN IT’S DAWNING ON YOU THAT YOU HAVE THESE CONFLICTING FEELINGS TOWARD SOMEONE WHO BUGS YOU SO MUCH. KARKAT: OH MY GOD, THIS WHOLE REACTION IS SO FUCKING TEXTBOOK. IT’S HILARIOUS, REALLY. JOHN: it’s fucked up though!!! KARKAT: IT’S SUPPOSED TO FEEL FUCKED UP! JOHN: aw, man. :(

Don’t you just love the drama of feeling fucked up about someone!

Moirallegiance: the pale quadrant

The moirallegience has a very important and specific social purpose. A moirail is some one who complements you. We talked about soulmates, but it is not quite that. Moirallegience is about finding someone who is the opposite of you and accepting them as the self you lack. You respect your partner, because they are capable of things you are not.

For trolls this is really necessary. We said before trolls are violent? Well some more than others, and these ones need a rather pacific troll that can emulate for them that personality trait they don’t have.

Say that I am very impatient, but my pale partner is very good at beign patient, and they help me emulate that patience. This is the complement moirals search, a good balance of emotions.

Auspistism: the ashen quadrant

Imagine a vacilating relationship, or a particulary dangerous kismessissitude. If a troll gets concerned about their well beign and whoever surrounds them and decides to meddle in, then we said they become ashed for the couple.

This is what feeling ashen for someone is. Wanting to help out to keep a balance, for the greater good.

The auspisticer troll begins to mediate between a problematic couple and pacifies the situation. Making it less dangerous. Breaking a chain of infidelity. Helping the couple get to terms with their emotions. An auspistice will have to do a good job or everything could go horribly wrong, though. That is the very specific role for the ashen quadrant in troll society.

Examples from Homestuck

Matespritship:

At some point Karkat ♥ Terezi

Meenah ♥ (Vriska)

We could include Rose ♥Kanaya

Kismessisitude: 

Vriska ♠ Eridan

Terezi ♠ Gamzee

John ♠ Terezi

 Vacilating relationships: 

Tavros/Vriska

Aradia/Equius

Moirallegiance: 

 Nepeta ♦ Equius. It is very evident how both of them discussed their emotions and end up agreeing in something. Whenever they would take a decission they tried to first confirm it with their partner. They both provided a nice emulation of feelings on each other. And it was good. 

Karkat ♦ Gamzee. Karkat has always been a concerned troll, while Gamzee is a carefree kid. When Gamzee did not get something Karkat would explain and make him care a little bit more. When Karkat was getting over the top with anger Gamzee would calm him down, reassuring him that it was all ok and he had nothing to worry about. It was also good, but Gamzee ended up neglecting the relationship. 

There is Vriska ♦ Terezi? They did not had the best comunication, honestly Vriska neglected a lot her talks with Terezi about feelings. I do not really want to got there.

 Auspistism: 

Actually, there is no good example of a meddly in the comic. Maybe Spades Slick ♣ Doc Scratch ♣ Sn8wman

There was almost Eridan ♣ Kanaya ♣ Vriska but Vriska didn’t want to.

And I think Eridan ♣ Terezi ♣ Sollux but Sollux didn’t want to.

Examples out of the comic 

 Matespritships? You could take whatever couple you would like, honestly. They are too similar. 

 You know Dexter and Mandark? Just pay attention for a second to these kids behaviour. They did everything to get the other one frustrated, but when the situation called it they even worked together. They had so much fun. That is caliginous flirt and there is no other way around it. 

 Ok, you ready for some Beastboy ♦ Raven? Because I am so invested. They have shared so many feelings and they do have emulated emotions on each other! I just love it when they talk about their differences and agree that they are both good in their own ways. It’s so cute.

Want to know how Steven went all  ♣ for Pearl and Amethyst in order for them to fuse? And even after that they kept having these tensions but workaround them so graciously. All thanks to Steven being a silly and cute auspisticer.

 If you need even more examples, please refer to this post. See how well these three teenagers will explain you how Troll romance works. Ah, yes. It was all canon. 

 •••••••• 

 Alrigth, I believe that will be all. I hope this helped you somehow! Thanks for reading!

[landofsomethingsomething]

how did you get so good at character & story analysis? like you only started homestuck near the end, and in that short time you've developed a deeper understanding of the characters and themes than people who have been involved for years (i.e. me, a dumbass who only figures this shit out after people like you talk insightfully about it).

I honestly & truly believe that I benefited TREMENDOUSLY from starting near the end, actually. When you start at the end of Homestuck, you get to read the entire thing at once, the way you would experience most types of heavy narrative focused media. You get the whole story in one (months long in my case but at least continuous) bite. 

When you are following any media update by update -- this goes for like, everything, comics, TV, etc -- you tend to be more easily distracted and misled by both intentional and unintentional red herrings. Like, so many Big Historical Homestuck Fandom Arguments were ROOTED in tons of significance being attributed to things that, on a fresh archival read, were completely inconsequential. When a 10 page update ends on a cliffhanger and you don’t get another update for a week, that’s a week that the entire fandom has to tear itself apart over every tiny little detail in those ten pages, because that’s all they had. And they did. 

And some of those little details mattered, of course, but MOST of them didn’t. It’s that old adage about “can’t see the forest but for the trees.” When you’re following something bite by bite, the bite in front of you is the Most Important Bite, repeated for every new update, forever, and it completely skews your reading and perception of something because it’s so much harder to plug This Piece into the bigger picture. You don’t really care about the bigger picture, because the whole story is years or months or whatever away from being done, you in fact don’t know if it will ever even truly finish, and what matters is what you have in the moment. 

More importantly this leads to just like. Rampant fanon. Just rampant, rampant fanon stuff completely based off hyperfocusing on individual updates and taking every little thing from them and going hog wild. In the spaces between updates, the fandom gives the canon a new layer of meaning. The fandom fills gaps with its own interpretation of what’s going on without the benefit of knowing what’s next. The fandom decides what it WANTS to come next and huge swathes of dedicated, passionate people are either disappointed horribly when they’re wrong or vindicated when they’re right or somewhere in between. 

So you get like... I guess the biggest example of this is the Retcon. 

I have never met an archival reader, someone who did not start homestuck until the ending or just before the final updates, who hates the Retcon. I have met some who will talk about what it could have done better, and the ways in which the device succeeded or failed, and some with mixed opinion, but I have never ever met an archival reader that HATES the Retcon with the passion that so many of those people who read update by update do. 

I know people who I otherwise respect and regard highly who like, for example, can’t get into Davekat as a pairing because it’s representative of the Retcon to them and it ruins it completely because they cannot connect to it or see it as “real.” 

Because a week between updates is one thing, but eight months? an entire year? That was a LOT of time for people to get attached to things the way they were in those pre-pause updates. That was a LOT of time for people to pore over every piece of canon that came before those pauses over and over and over and over and decide what they wanted and become SO attached to the characters and story and plotlines how they were. 

My wife tells me stories about how everyone did a “homestuck ending bingo” right after the update that kicked off the long pause before Game Over. Everyone was so excited to see what would happen next, how the characters they loved so much would overcome this insane trial, how it could possibly continue, how the plotlines would resolve. 

And instead, everyone died. John came in and fixed it all by branching them to another reality, where suddenly, these things that people had spent a literal year investing in so utterly were just... gone. Erased. In some cases almost literally never mentioned again. They never got to see the resolutions they wanted and they felt it was unfair and they were duped and etc etc etc the backlash against the retcon is something every homestuck fan is familiar with. 

But to circle back to my original point -- Archival readers just absolutely do not GET that. The version of Dave and Karkat and Terezi and Rose and Kanaya and Jade and John and EVERYONE that existed right up until Game Over were characters hurtling to an obvious Bad End, and the way it went down, archival readers have an easier time processing and understanding and accepting, because we didn’t have the time to get attached to point-in-time versions of things. 

My wife tells me stories of the days when Kare//zi and Joh//nKat were heavily shipped and it’s surreal to me, because from MY perspective, those were blips on a radar. Kare//zi was so early in Karkat and Terezi’s story that to me it was just like, oh, interesting, a failed relationship that informs things about both their characters that they moved on from naturally into other things. (I don’t mean to pick on that ship, btw, it’s just a good example of something that was EMBLEMATIC from a point-in-time perspective that an archival reader would never really hang so much weight on, because it’s there and then it’s gone and we didn’t have weeks and years of space between updates to ruminate on them as a couple or assume that the relationship would continue to be a flagship and how it would evolve in that role.) There are so many more examples. 

I find this with the Alphas, too -- Archival readers overall seem to genuinely love the alphas more, on the whole, than people who read episodically (who tend to favor the betas, or the Act 5 trolls.) Archival readers tend to leave the experience MOST attached to characters and relationships that survived to the end, because when you read it as a full narrative beginning to end, that’s just kind of a natural thing that happens.

Anyway this post is already way too long, but my point is basically, the experience of reading homestuck from beginning to end all at once with very little knowledge of it going in is COMPLETELY different from the experience of reading it episodically. The emotions you have and the things you care about and just the FEEL of your entire experience is so different. 

And yes, I think the archival experience is “better,” when it comes to like, an understanding of the work as a whole? I don’t think this just with Homestuck, btw. I feel this way about, for instance, episodic television shows that tell ongoing continuous stories too. I much prefer to binge watch an entire series on netflix in a week than to watch every friday because I just GET things better. I feel I come away with a more complete experience. 

It’s a trade off, obviously. Reading episodically is better for like, having the FULL homestuck as an explosively popular fandom experience. Us archival people will never know what it’s like to have been around in the full swing of Homestuck’s popularity, never be able to roll around in the absolute GLUT of content that was out there, never be able to engage with SO MANY diverse voices and opinions, never be able to ride the high that comes with caring a lot about one of the most popular fandoms around. We’ll never have memories of this update or that update or what arguments and discourse and fanwork and other stuff spawned from this or that, we missed a lot of cool stuff I’m sad to have missed, and a lot of terrible stuff I’m glad to have missed, but yeah. 

But an episodic reader will never get to be able to read Homestuck from beginning to end with no preconceptions or biases formed from their earlier experience or the hopes and wants and theories they had the first time around, update to update. They’ll never get as clear a picture of the Whole Story. 

It’s a tradeoff. Idk. I’m glad I came in when I did, overall, but I think that most people feel that way about their own experience with it. 

All this to say, I think that the things I and other archival readers are able to connect over the course of the long narrative are less because of any outstanding individual ability in analysis (although I mean, obviously there is some of that or we wouldn’t be meta blogging in the first place) but rather just a simple raw advantage of extra clarity because of our late arrival.