#and if I liked Eggdad and Metal SONic more but it's not game canon so I'm not the hugest fan

[egg-emperor]

everyday I think of the list of things I could do to make my blog appealing to more Eggman fans and the fandom as a whole but I just keep doing what I do with my weird funny little niche with one of the most unpopular versions of the character in the fandom because it makes me the happiest. all the super specific things I'm into posting might not be the most popular or preferred by people but I'm having fun and I really appreciate those that support me in it

[beevean]

I'm getting really tired of Ian using the whole thing about the writing and characterization in the series being inconsistent throughout the years as an excuse. Yes, there has many wildly different interpretations and takes of the characters in the many different spin-offs in media that have been made throughout it's history. Imo it's why the franchise has remained so relevant and it's fandom so active to this day, because it's made the characters and series more accessible that way. Anywhere can be a jumping on point for people. But I really don't think people are asking too much for there to be some consistency or set of rules within a continuity that he and the others working on IDW have, or tried to have, established. Unlike with Archie, where they were literally making things up as they went along, they're supposed to be starting completely from scratch with IDW.

And it doesn't help with him doing writing work on a mainline game like Frontiers, because it's meant to take place in the same exact canon as the main games. Assuming he had something to do with it, I wouldn't have any problem with how the whole Eggdad thing was done(aside from it just feeling completely rushed) if it was in a completely different continuity that was it's own thing, as the character has had so many different portrayals throughout the franchise's history. But since this is meant to be the same Eggman from the games, I have to look at it through the lense of how he's been in the previous games up until that point- which I would say has actually been pretty damn consistent- and because of that, it feels so off-putting for him to suddenly soften up out of nowhere, when he normally would have immediately pushed the off button on Sage, or do a bit of "reprogramming", the second she started talking back.

It's a lazy copout, not befitting of Best Sonic Writer The Veteran, and it's not even true!

You know what, I'll just put this from the FAQ, which wasn't written for sport:

“Games!Sonic is inconsistent.”

Yes, different writers choose to emphasize different aspects of Sonic’s personality. In ShTH, he was overly giddy and excited, and even seemed to not notice Shadow being upset because he remembered his own death. In ‘06, he was overly stoic. In Colors, he gained the sudden quirk of taunting robots who couldn’t respond.

However, Sonic still has core traits that no game has changed: for example, Games!Sonic is always supportive towards his friends, and trusts them to know what they’re doing… something that isn’t always present in IDW. Games!Sonic remarked that Shadow saved the world once and thus he isn’t just a weapon in Battle; IDW!Sonic guilt-tripped him by reminding him that he tried to obliterate the planet once in #6. Games!Sonic listens to Tails, and he makes sure to apologize to him after the one time he has offended him in Lost World;  IDW!Sonic brushes Tails off and deflects blame when Tails confronts him about his decision to let Metal Sonic go in #50. Games!Sonic is fairly terse when it comes to himself, and only speaks for longer when he talks about the power of friendship; IDW!Sonic goes on whole speeches about his general modus operandi (granted, this is an issue with Flynn’s writing in general, who really seems to like writing many words).

Sonic is a simple character at his core, and as such, the traits that make his very being have always been respected. Sonic is friendly, kind although with a noticeable ego, he always always tries to save people in need even if he has no idea of what's going on, always sees the best in those people, but he's somewhat uncaring of villains, especially the ones who have crossed the line in his mind - he doesn't automatically go for the kill, but if he has to kill them, he'll do it. The fact that he's more of a chatterbox in Colors than he is in '06 doesn't mean that there is one game where Sonic has suddenly turned into a manipulative bastard, or somehow thinks that Eggman could ever reform.

The games. They're meant to be played. With care.

And of course, same with Eggman. Yes, the Eggman from '06 is a much more serious, less hammy version of the character, that is inconsistent. But throughout 31 years, Eggman never, ever displayed any positive quality that would suggest that he'd grow emotionally attached to a child, even one of his creation. This is why I hate the argument "well Bowser can be a dad and still be evil!" sure! Bowser. Not Eggman. They're not the same character. Anti-heroes who slash everyone in their way and still are heroic exist, but that doesn't mean that Sonic would be one of them!

Justifying it with "muh inconsistency" means you're not above the level of a 6 year old who makes up the rules of the game as they go along, because they really want to win.

[egg-emperor]

I saw this toss in about the whole "Eggdad" thing: Even if Eggman never lays a hand on Sage; that doesn't necessarily mean this stops for the rest of his creations. And Sage has to bear witness to that. (A parent showing blatant favoritism towards certain kids isn't wholesome by any means and hardly ever leads to anything good for every kid involved; including the ones that sucks up all the attention. It's silly to think that this wouldn't affect Sage in some way. Gamma wasn't an AI, and yet the actions Eggman had him do [and Amy's words] had him think twice. Omega was tossed away, and now seeks revenge. Even Metal Sonic rebelled, which ultimately resulted in him being reset. *With Sonic's influence changing how she calculated outcomes, what's stopping her from having her "canon event" later?)

*Note: This doesn't really mean yet another rebellion from an Eggman invention. (In anything, I'm more intrigued about the opposite happening. Like Sage struggling with perfectionism to NOT wind up like previous creations did. Constant approval seeking.)

Yeah exactly. I think a lot of the people who didn't wanna hear me out were missing the point of my analysis, hc, and fic about this. They were acting like I'm predicting that Eggman will be depicted smacking Sage around or something but I don't think he will because well- he literally can't. At least I don't think so because Sage is an AI program and his hands should just phase right through her if he were to try anyway.

Instead I was actually highlighting how terribly he treats all his other creations of Metal Sonic, the E Series, and Orbot and Cubot and how he's even manipulated those who were created/worked on by his grandfather with Emerl and Shadow. It'd make a lot of sense if he manipulated Sage in various ways and one way can actually be through treating her better than his other creations that he still treats terribly.

It's highly likely for him to at least be manipulative towards her, in fact he pretty much is in the Frontiers' story. Because he'll yell at her one moment when she doesn't do exactly what he wants but highly praises her the next when she does. He'll raise his voice and thump things that he can hit when he's angry at her, just as he does his other creations. Only difference is that he can't actually hit her like them.

But hitting them physically isn't the only way he can be a bad father and show concerning traits that support that. It's all throughout Frontiers for the above, which is present in multiple cutscenes. And also the way his value of Sage is solely rooted in what she can do for him and how great and impressive of a genius she makes him look as her creator in the first place, as he makes very clear in the memos.

That's already a lot of pressure put on Sage. She's expected to meet these expectations in loyalty and efficiency that Eggman brags about in the memos, otherwise she isn't reflective of his genius and doesn't bring him the selfish gain he desires, which will lose what gives her value and use to him in his own words! And not just that, but also the point you've raised about how he treats his other creations.

I've seen a lot of people acting like the way Eggman treated his other creations suddenly doesn't matter or just ignore it. But let's not pretend that Eggman isn't awfully cruel to Orbot and Cubot all the time in the games, which I explored in depth in my "proof that Eggman is a bad father" video. He has been verbally and physically abusive towards them and there's no other word for it or any excuses to make against it.

That isn't suddenly erased just because he sees more value in Sage (for very selfish conceited self serving reasons at that) and half-heartedly entertains the idea of Orbot and Cubot being like her brothers. It actually makes it worse that he's willing to see them that way with the way he treats them. It just means he's canonically both verbally and physically abusive to "kids" of his already, regardless of if he is to Sage.

I've seen it depicted in cutesy funny ways to have Eggman treat Sage better in front of the others, but the blatant favoritism of some creations over others, that's based on who is the most impressive and useful to him at the time, would have harmful effects on all involved in reality. Sage has to keep living up to that and he can use her as an example to get the others to fight harder for the same praise.

The Murder of Sonic had Eggman do this intentionally by having them compete against to serve him well to impress him and get praise and "rewards" and I really like that. He programs them with feelings just to take advantage of them like that and that's just so Eggman. I can see him doing more of the exact same thing in the main games with how their worth is determined by their use there too.

Sage, Metal Sonic, and Orbot and Cubot would all be affected badly by this when they realize Eggman's affection and praise is conditional, shallow, and manipulative in these ways. When they realize that it's really all determined by what is the most beneficial to him personally, while buttering them up to keep them loyal and efficient, set an example and act as a measuring stick to the others but tosses them if they fail.

And Gamma was also a victim of this as a top example of what shows how harmful it is when Eggman picks a favorite! Eggman praised Gamma highly and said he was proud of him in the exact same way he did to Sage and say that he knew he'd be of use (again proving that their value is determined by their use to him), to butter him up and keep him performing well- even though he clearly had doubts in him prior.

It was very manipulative of Eggman to that just like it appears to me with Sage too. It's even similar to TMoS in a way, with how he pit Gamma against Beta in a fight and all the E Series had to search for Froggy and he punished the failures cruelly by breaking them down, disassembling them and putting them back together, which disturbed Gamma so much that he was willing to kill his brothers to set them all free.

And Omega was shut away by Eggman and he hated being sealed in that room, not even the important duty of guarding the real Shadow and ensuring that he didn't escape was enough to feel valued and be happy. Just because he can be useful to him, it doesn't change that Eggman is still cruel and uncaring and will lock him away and not care if he wants it or not. His value and praise is a performance and only for his gain.

And Metal Sonic is also another of the top examples of what it's like to be treated badly by Eggman to the point that he tries to rebel twice but not be so lucky to escape like the E Series and Omega because he's trapped being reprogrammed again and again and kept under his control to ensure that he's not going anywhere. No matter how useful a creation is to him at one point or another, they all suffer in some way.

There are many ways Eggman could be cruel or harmful to Sage. I think he's already shown signs of how and used some tactics on her in Frontiers, going by his track record and the known intentions and reasons behind it confirmed by Ian Flynn. Maybe they'll decide to expand on it blatantly, maybe they won't. But I think it's there subtly already and those conditions are very accurate to his character.

Then you have the extras of Eggman calling Sage "ugly/unseemly" before he gave her shoes in the Sonic Channel art (what was seen as a sweet cute gift by fans still had him being a jerk in it like lol wtf Eggman) and in Murder of Sonic, he's still yelling at Orbot in front of her, so she has witnessed Eggman still very much being terrible to his other creations/her brothers and in front of her in official media already!

And yeah I don't see Sage betraying Eggman with the stuff she witnessed both from how he treats her and Sonic and co and how she still stuck by his side and stayed genuinely loyal and willing to protect and serve. Even after all that and how she also revealed that she doubted he even cared about her, as she asked Sonic if he thinks Eggman does (to which Sonic could only mutter "sure... in his own way" lol)

Eggman doesn't even have to give her much to keep her loyal and efficient as it's what he created her to do and it was a success, she's devoted and willing regardless of how he treats her. She was like that even before he gave her an ounce of praise and even after he yelled at her. But the manipulation of her emotions by buttering her up with that praise, albeit conditional, helps further ensure it will stay that way.

And when his other creations see the praise and approval Sage gets, they'll wish they could get that too and will work harder to try to please him, which is exactly what he wants. But he has and continues to treat his other creations terribly even in front of her when they don't, which puts even more pressure on her having to continue living up to that standard to keep him pleased and avoid ending up like them.

So yeah, regardless of how Eggman treats Sage on the surface, there's always those dark undertones, the bad signs that have shown in their interactions, and the toxic basis of their dynamic on Eggman's side as officially confirmed. It's supposed to be unsettling as Flynn said for a reason. And he still treats his other creations blatantly terribly in front of her which also isn't pleasant and can have harmful effects.

They're not the picture perfect family that people find cute and ideal and that's actually the point. And it will definitely be interesting to see how Sage remains loyal and devoted but will have to deal with her father doing things like this to her brothers and what she thinks and he feels about it. It will probably be like how she took a liking to Sonic and co but Eggman just wants them dead but still she stayed by him despite that.

[egg-emperor]

It’s funny that you’ve beginning to like SAGE. I imagine people who hated you for it thinking it’s because you finally come around on wholesome eggdad. Only for you to smile and go. No it was just pointed out how messed up it he relationship was and I love that!!! I do hope when SAGE we get to see her be more evil and messed up than she was in Frontiers. Also do you think her and Metal compete for Eggman’s favor and he just sits back and smile knowing it’ll motivate them more.

YES YOU GET IT!! 👏 I've thought about that because people seem to think a wholesome family dynamic is the only possible or acceptable way to like it. They'd probably think they finally won me over, just for me to be like BOOM I still love toxic evil Eggdaddy like always but his also messed up evil daughter now too, just like the kind of Eggdaddy and Metal SONic I've always liked! >:) 💜

Of course like always for me it's just more acknowledgement and appreciation for yet another messed up aspect of Eggman and how it shows in the dynamic. I enjoyed his side quickly when realizing how shallow and unsettling it is like Ian Flynn emphasized and realizations about Sage as who Eggman specifically created her to be make me like her and her side more too.

The people being unnecessarily cruel over my opinion didn't realize that all it took to have me like Sage and the dynamic more was having it pointed out, the Sage that Eggman created her to be vs her developments only thanks to Sonic and co (though a lot don't actually like the canon Eggdad so they wouldn't be the ones to anyway) and how it actually makes it more messed up because then it's right up my alley lol

In my Discord server I was talking about how I actually see a lot of potential in the canon compliant dynamic and find it more interesting than the most popular and acceptable empty generic fluff without much deeper thought or exploration right now. I'd definitely like to explore it based on what we actually see in the game some more with analysis and concepts.

I hope the Sage after her resurrection will have behavior closer to before her influence from Sonic and co. That would make the most sense as Eggman only wants her to be what he created her to be, it's exactly what he praised her for all the way through- fulfilling her function. All Sonic did was teach her love and look for that in the dynamic that already existed with him.

Eggman doesn't want his daughter taking influence from his arch nemesis that he's still very much going out of his way to emphasize hating, being furious at the idea of working with, and finding sadistic pleasure and amusement in seeing him suffer in the very same game. And with the power of being able to alter her programming however he wants, he can easily change that!

That's why I find it interesting how Flynn said Eggman has brought her back "in some form" but hasn't said exactly how, it could be a sign of a difference in the Sage after her development thanks to Sonic and co to her being brought back under Eggman's personal guidance as her creator. Which in that case, it should be reminiscent of her behaviors and actions in the game before that.

And YES, I love the idea of his creations working harder to outdo each other and make daddy dearest proud and being jealous whenever one gets more important work and praise. Eggman would definitely exploit it, enjoying how it makes them work even harder to please him. And he'll highly praise in front of the others to make them jealous and make them all keep it up.

That would definitely apply to Metal and Sage most, both are most willing and devoted to fulfilling their set goals and serving Eggman when under his control and operating the way he created them. With Metal being praised as one of his proudest most prized creations and suddenly being rivaled by Sage, he'd put in the effort to try to prove to him that he'll always be his greatest creations!

Eggman wouldn't assure they're equal and loved in his eyes, instead his favorite is whoever has done the best for him that day in their duties. He'd enjoy seeing them compete and put the extra effort in to try to gain his attention and praise with the most enthusiasm and determination, it makes him feel special and special prioritized like he always should be and it gets his dirty work done hehe

[egg-emperor]

I've discussed this briefly in the past but once again I'm here to say how much I adore the concept of lone wolf Eggman and how many vibes he gives off of that in the games. It's something I've always loved about him and wouldn't want to change at all.

I was thinking about this today while messing around in the Egg Carrier. It's absolutely huge but besides his robots, he has the whole place to himself. I like that in his private rooms that serve as his living quarters (which even have the keyword private), he has things to keep him entertained, such as reading, games, and swimming, which are things that can all be enjoyed privately and not socially. It gives off the impression that not only is it all for himself but also that he isn't expecting anyone, he wouldn't want to invite them in if he could. I love the personality and creativity seen in there, along with the way that he's just in this big place, surrounding himself with things he enjoys, all alone.

I also like how we see robots like Metal and others idling there as they're not in use, unlike the common headcanon I see that he just lets them wander around and interact with him commonly like they're a family. (Because again, reminder that we don't really know how canon Eggdad is to the games, it's really more of a comics thing.) I don't see him as someone that wants a constant family man type role like that. I personally can only see him keeping robots active when necessary and that he'd often idle them like those on the Egg Carrier. The only ones that would be constant are his assistants, cleaning robots, and security. And even then, he prefers for them to give him plenty of space and privacy.

Mentioning Adventure specifically because I was playing it today and it's also a prime example of the aspects of his very private living quarters and the idling of his robots. But there have been tons of examples in the series starting from the very beginning. He's a busy and hardworking man that typically resides in large bases that are far away from the rest of the world for both safety and privacy, he lives in his own world of creating robots and theme parks and aims to conquer the world like it's his to own and his plaything, he's self centered because he cares for no others and only himself and what he wants, and he isn't known to seek personal company from others or discomfort in being alone.

There's also the fact that, in game canon, he wasn't even known to have more personalized interactive robotic assistants until SA-55 in Unleashed and Orbot and Cubot in Colors. He interacts with them more than anyone else and are the only company he commonly gets and yet it took him that long to get them. It was clearly a way to have scenes with him that aren't focused around Sonic and co, so we can see his side outside of that more. They needed others for him to interact with so he isn't just always seen talking to himself, so he has those to converse with and bounce off of him to perform an interesting dynamic. As much as I enjoyed when he didn't even have those assistants, I'm glad they made this choice.

And story-wise, he clearly didn't create his assistants for company, they're just made for exactly that; assistance. This is clear by the way he doesn't appear to have a deep connection with them and is often cruel to them, he doesn't really see them as family. (Unlike Boom Eggman.) And another reason besides that is that he likes the control of having someone to order around and feel like the superior, without needing to have a real living being in his space to do so. This also makes sense for why SA-55 (with 'sass' literally in his codename) and then Orbot to sass him, so he can bicker with someone and feel happy if he wins the argument. (Though sometimes we see them take that further than he desired when creating them and that really pisses him off, but even then he gets to punish them and feels a sense of control through that too.)

Even though he'd go on to have more company in the future through Orbot and Cubot, my other points two paragraphs above still stand to this day.

I've been asked a couple of times before but the answer is no, I don't like to imagine that Eggman is lonely and I like how nothing hints towards that in the games. It doesn't have to be a sad thing like the direction that I've seen some people try to take it, (most likely because of Boom despite once again, it being non canon and an entirely different version of Eggman.) I've never imagined it to be and there's no in game evidence that he feels that way. I love the thought of him instead being happy and content to live within his own glorious company as he's superior to all and he's never felt a need for the constant presence of others in his life. Robots that serve his needs will do and everything else has been seen to be temporary.

I think that, while he'd obviously enjoy getting attention or praise in any way as he's a huge attention whore, his preferred way is to get it from the whole world. First, for the obvious reason that it will never be enough until he does and he won't be satisfied getting attention from just one or a few people when he knows he could get it from everyone. But also for the second reason, that he also just prefers to get it that way instead of on a personal level because he's far above them all. He wants people to look up to him and admire him as their ruler in a way that he's untouchable, not by living in his space because he's all he's ever needed there and they'll never get on his level so he won't see them as worthy of his all time presence.

That's also why I have no desire for the concept of game canon Eggman having a living being as an assistant, or an equivalent to the Egg Bosses. It makes sense that he doesn't desire having too many living beings as assistants or lackeys at once (and when he does it clearly isn't for company, it's business and he'd discard them when he doesn't need them anymore) because he can create robots instead, which are more worthy because they're created by his genius and he wants to make use of his skills. He wouldn't think that someone else is better than anything he's created with his brilliant mind, so other living beings aren't necessary in the long term. Nor trustworthy, as even his own robots can go rogue. He's also just not interested.

Like Sonic insults him for 'having no friends' but I imagine he genuinely doesn't care lol. He's always seen himself as superior and above all and he's never seen to be uncomfortable with being alone. And besides all the reasons it makes sense for his character, it's also another one of those things about him that actually brings me comfort, much like the headcanon that he's aro spec. He's middle aged and he feels not only no rush but also no need to find company of any kind. He seeks worldwide recognition, attention, domination, and control but he's also independent and content in just focusing on himself, his work, and his dreams before anyone and anything else. And I love and support him in that! 💜💕