#and if these statements are purposefully linked to the narrators then the only thing in common with leitner is the giant ego and arrongance

[alasroundrock]

Okay soooooo

First statement from the 18th century? Oh I wonder who else was born in that century and why it wasn't Chester or Norris reading this

Very Posh Voice (someone who could have believably been an old man from a different century)

'But I was young and frightened, and simply watched in quiet awe.' ?? that's what I thought you'd say you dumb fucking horse

A tale with themes of hubris and a man sacrificing both parts of himself and the lives of others to place himself above his fellow men???

Where else have I seen someone bleeding for their own goals (ehm gouging own eyes out ehm) and feeding their entity via the life and fear of others. I know the second part is a common feature of avatars (assuming they even exist in this universe) but I want to hope it's him ok

With all the deaths and the terror it was all still worth it to the violinist because of the music??? Remembering Simon's talk about how being an avatar is like hearing the most beautiful music in your dreams. Thinking about Elias admitting the exhilaration of knowing you would be willing to sacrifice the entire world in the name of your own freedom. Thinking about 'Nothing's wrong with him. He's the pupil of the Eye. He's won.'

In conclusion: Jimmy Magma enjoy your vacation inside the computer

[thornsickle]

Let’s talk about the word ‘destroy’ in the Star Wars. I was jumping in my seat with joy when Kylo uttered: “I’ll destroy her. And you. And all of it.” Here’s why (hint, it’s never literal).

First, here are three coupled examples, so far, of this word being used in a non-literal manner (”DESTROY THAT BOMBER!!!!” ahem, does not count).

A New Hope (Episode IV)

Luke: How did my father die?

Obi-Wan: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

Return of the Jedi (Episode VI)

Luke: Ben! Why didn’t you tell me? You told me that Darth Vader betrayed and murdered my father.

Obi-Wan: Your father… was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be the Jedi Anakin Skywalker and ‘became’ Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So, what I told you was true… from a certain point of view.

……………………….

The Force Awakens (Episode VII)

Han: He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything.

The Last Jedi (Episode VIII)

Luke: I saw darkness. I’d sensed it building in him. I’d seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, and pain, and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become. And for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame, and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him.

…………………………………..

Attack of the Clones (Episode II)

Anakin: It doesn’t have to be that way. We could keep it a secret.

Padme: We’d be living a lie. One we couldn’t keep, even if we wanted to. I couldn’t do that. Could you, Anakin? Could you live like that?

Anakin: No, you’re right, it would destroy us.

Attack of the Clones (Episode II)

Anakin: Don’t be afraid.

Padme: I’m not afraid to die. I’ve been dying a little bit each day since you came back into my life.

Anakin: What are you talking about?

Padme: I love you.

Anakin: You love me? I thought we had decided not to fall in love. That we’d be forced to live a lie and that it would destroy our lives.

Padme: I think our lives are about to be destroyed anyway. I truly… deeply… love you and before we die I want you to know.

……………………………….

The Last Jedi (Episode VIII)

Kylo Ren: I’ll destroy her. And you. And all of it.

Luke: No. Strike me down in anger and I’ll always be with you. Just like your father.

The dialogue, I think, speaks for itself. This specific word NEVER means what it first appears to mean in Star Wars and it has been purposefully used throughout the saga to demonstrate when a character is either an unreliable narrator, unconvinced in what they are saying or outright lying. It is actually a pretty nebulous word since it suggests one thing but could very well mean something else. The crux of the matter is, Rian Johnson chose to use this word DELIBERATELY.

Why would he decide to use this specific word, other than to imply that Kylo’s statement would come back to mean something different other than the obvious, either subverted, misunderstood or revealed to be a lie.

Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

In ‘The Last Jedi’, Luke finally comes to understand what Obi Wan meant, which is why we are given different versions of what happened between the Jedi Master and his nephew. It is to prove both Obi Wan’s point and also how Luke has evolved as a person and become a wiser man than before. He understands Kylo’s pain, understands that, for him, the truth will always be that Luke betrayed him and left him no choice. Luke acknowledges this truth, which is why he is finally able to accept his failures and also Kylo’s choice to be on the dark side. However, having understood Obi Wan’s words, he also knows that Kylo’s words will not ring entirely true when he states he will destroy Rey.

Let’s look at what ‘destroy’ actually means, within the context of Star Wars.

The instance (release date-wise) where we see the first use of this nebulous word is in RotJ, with Obi-Wan’s famous words revealing his misdirection. In this instance, the word ‘destroy’ is revealed to not directly mean ‘betrayal’ and ‘murder’. It DOES mean these words, but not literally, more figuratively. This understandably frustrates Luke, but it shows how Obi Wan was not lying. The point of this example is to show ‘self-destruction’ and how destroy does not directly mean murder.

So if we compare that to Kylo’s line, it becomes clear, especially to Luke, that though Kylo believes this to mean murder, it will likely result in something quite different, even if Kylo succeeds (which he won’t because Rey is our heroine haha, but he might come close, more on that later).

The example in The Force Awakens always felt fishy to me. Han’s use of that cursed word ‘destroy’ sent alarm bells through my mind. Check out this short post about my thoughts then.

http://sakurau121.tumblr.com/post/153877814060/one-apprentice-a-boy-turned-against-him

As we saw in TLJ, my doubts were well founded for. Kylo literally destroyed Luke’s academy, but Luke was the reason it finally happened. Luke played a part in that destruction and while Han does not lie, his words are now viewed in a very different light. His words suggest Kylo decided to turn against Luke when in reality he was given no choice but to turn against his master. Even as Luke describes how Kylo Ren would bring ‘destruction’ to the galaxy, it is not clear what ‘type’ of destruction that is and later in the film when Kylo kills Snoke, we realize the true scope of what Luke foresaw, which again subverts our expectations. I have a feeling Episode IX will continue to do this. It should be noted as well that Kylo does not ‘destroy it all’ as he took some of Luke’s students with him (we have still to find out why, whether this will be developed in Episode IX or not, I’m not sure).

In Episode II, Anakin’s words are ominous. When he states that their love for each other would ‘destroy’ them, he is right. In this instance, George Lucas uses this word because it ties into Obi Wan’s description of what happened to Anakin (this is the wonderful thing that happens when you have one dude writing the whole thing but whatever, I digress). In both cases, we know Anakin won’t ‘die’ but he will self-destruct. For Padme, the word ‘destroy’ does literally mean she will die.

Which makes it all the more tragic, because it shows that they were aware their love would bring about destruction but they decided love was more important than death. Yes, their own death.

So now we return to Kylo Ren and his final statement. I will lay out all the possibilities, based on what has come before. I don’t believe all of them, but I’m just putting them out there for the purposes of this post. ‘I will kill her and you and all of it’ is the literal translation, but I am 100% sure this is not what is foreshadowed.

1. Kylo’s words will show how he does not end up killing Rey, but rather destroying her light, turning her to the dark side, like what happened with Vader. He will merge the Resistance with the First Order once they are defeated. 

This won’t happen, at least not permanently, but I still think she could dally in it. Luke does during his final battle with Vader, so to keep up the tension, I think this is a possibility. But Rey won’t turn into Darth Vader 2.0 obviously. The grey still has to be analyzed but I’ll do a separate post on that.

2. Kylo’s words reveal he will destroy ‘all of it’. As in, he will end the First Order and the Resistance. This is hinted at because it is clear he has no real affinity with any group (revealed during his final speech to Rey), strangely rather like his father. He is in fact a rogue at heart, so it’s possible he will bring about the First Order’s destruction. Either by causing it to fall, abandoning it, purposefully betraying it or causing it to surrender. This ties back with the ‘destruction’ Luke foresaw when Ben was his student. It won’t mean what Luke thought it meant. This is why he says ‘no’ in response because he realizes the possibilities are endless. Perhaps he only foresaw Ben’s future in one way but in fact did not see the other side to what his fate could be.

3. The third one is a bit tragic and for me, sad but here it is. Anakin and Padme’s love for each other ‘destroyed’ them. George Lucas tied these two words together ‘destruction’ and ‘love’, so it is possible to see the link here too. Kylo reveals through his words that he loves Rey because it will bring about her destruction, as it was with Anakin and Padme. But note again, that Luke replies with ‘no’. So perhaps this is foreshadowing that Kylo’s love for Rey will not bring about her destruction at all.

‘I thought we had decided that love would destroy our lives.’

‘I will destroy her.’

In this context, Kylo’s words take on a very different meaning. At the end of their confrontation, Rey rejects Kylo’s hands because she knows he does not see her side. Rey is crying because she sees she cannot accept Kylo’s promise of unity because it would mean the end of who she is. The ‘self-destruction’ which Obi Wan talks about when speaking of Vader. The love which resulted in Padme’s death.

What is beautiful is that Luke knows Rey will not be destroyed. That Kylo won’t destroy her. Unlike every other exchange I have mentioned in this post, the one between Kylo and Luke is actually foreshadowing something positive that is to come in Episode IX. It means the fate of Kylo and Rey’s connection is not that of ‘destruction’.

If you need anymore confirmation, just think. Kylo has already been proven wrong. He didn’t destroy Luke at all, in fact he helped Luke become one with the Force.