#and then Joyce is s3 too I think but El is s2

[jonathanbyersphd]

Me, a conspiracy theorist, wondering if it's significant which funkos they picked for shooting.

[faithfulcat111]

Specifically brought my camera with the intent of taking pictures at Comic-con and then the anxiety kicked in and took almost none. Actually I took some but they were of this really old Atari I found so I can make fun of my dad and the Indiana state capital. And exactly one cosplayer.

[ch1efhops]

obviously i don't write here i just log on to say a bunch of words & dip but i would like to talk about hopper + his anger & how he just doesn't know how to not lash out sometimes or how sometimes maybe it's not even anger per say it's more so the feeling of being overwhelmed

[queen-of-hawkins-why-ler]

I know people tend to think that Dustin, Lucas, Max, El and some of the other characters will have a difficult time wrapping their heads around Byler because of the time period, but I kind of think it will be like a lightbulb moment for them where they're like "Ohhhh so *that's* why." I mean, maybe it should be difficult for Jonathan and Joyce to wrap their heads around it too because of the time period, but it clearly isn't. They recognize the love that Mike and Will have for each other and most likely see it as being "different" from what other people experience, but no less beautiful or valid.

I can see the other party members having a similar reaction. They will be open to and accepting of the idea that Mike and Will belong together, not because they haven't been influenced by the negative stereotypes they've been taught to associate queerness with, but because they've all had a firsthand look at what Mike and Will's relationship is really all about. Like in s2 when Will was having visions in his now memories, the party saw the way that Mike snapped him out of it, wrapped an arm around him, and took him home. Lucas saw Mike's devotion towards apologizing to Will and making things right with him in s3. Like, they have seen and probably subconsciously understand that Mike and Will love each other: they just don't have the tools to recognize what the relationship is yet. But as soon as they realize what it is, I don't think they'll struggle to accept it at all and will probably actually be the boys' biggest supporters and defenders.

That's the dynamic the party has had from the beginning. Dustin and Lucas aren't homophobic---they were fine being friends with and defending the "gay kid" even if it meant getting bullied or harassed. The party is a group of disadvantaged kids whether because of queerness, race, disability or poverty, and they all love and accept each other not just in light of their disadvantages but in part BECAUSE of their disadvantages. I think a beautiful part of Byler will be that the party will accept Mike and Will with open arms, and Dustin and Lucas particularly won't be weird about it all since they've seen this love growing and flourishing since the BEGINNING. I hope we get scenes of the four boys together where Mike and Will are unabashedly a couple but the group's friendship dynamic hasn't changed at all other than maybe growing stronger because of it. Lucas and Dustin will totally take up for Byler and defend them because they essentially always have.

[coniangray]

St5 teaser breakdown

(cus im bored) (spoilers, duh....i think)

All these clips are from the first 2 eps cus ofc they wont wanna spoil more that early into production. Like imagine if this felt too much of a sneak peak, the season is gonna be HUGE and this will feel like the 0.00001% of what it actually is lmao.

The school scenes:

i think first scenes, all from episode one.

The boys will catch a signal from the radio the night prior, paralleling s2e1

but this time either will lives with the wheelers or hes at the radio station and they contact from there.

the signal might be near a military base OR

its henrys signal that needs decoding excactly like the scoop troops did in st3.

So, the dynamics here are gonna be reminicent of both s2 and s3e2.

some quotes like "what are you doing on this channel again" and ''I cracked it", "cracked what?","I cracked the code" are also gonna make the cut. This scene will be paralelled with either mike or dustin, since these two were the brain of the party.

BONUS:

And what did robin also figure out in s4? Oh, wait-

I dont actually know what this code is, but i know it needs all four of them to solve it. And what if, in the background of the signal they catch up on little dream of me playing in the background?

The daisy song being broadcasted was accidental; the russians werent planning on including it there or they just did it as a distraction (they might have recorded the code within the crowd of the mall in brought daylight.) So what if the music, even if there is one at the background, is accidental too? After all, this song is mentioned as victors safe space because he called ella fitzgerald an angel, not henrys.

It all has to do with vecna at the end of the day, given how will touches his neck and feels him. This is an early sign of the symptoms, given how later, after school, they grow bigger and wider, giving will his first vision of the day:

And i dont even need to tell yall what this scene paralels lol

same table, but not same tree.

The code solving talk still continues here, because of how convenient it is to have will see the clock, zone out, walk towards it while the rest of the group talks about vecna and him capturing his victims in manipulative ways. In this scene they will bring up metaphors and allegories, just like they did with chrissy and eddie "do you ever feel like youre losing your mind?","i feel like im going crazy right now, doing a deal with the queen of hawkins high".

Also, like eddie said, this place promises safety because no o ne ever goes out there. SO, my bet is, mike chose they go there since eddie mustve told him right before he died.

bet hell say sth between the lines of "We have to go somewhere private. Somewhere no one can hear us." and thatll be most likely during lunch.

And thats where the bullies come in.

In order to continue their scenes out there, they mustve been interrupted by andy and jasons squad, and teased as to what they were doing with the radio on the table, given the leaks we got back in january or mike and dustin being followed by them.

no i have a feeling that during this arguement (after lunch and before the table scene), andy will attack mike and dustin and will will hopefully give a punch, paraleling el and angela in s4 and joyce in s3. This is my guess here, but i hope its true cus poor boy needs to throw hands with sb.

Spoiler alert it might not happen that day cus all of them are safe and sound without a scratch in the table woods scene.

After the woods scene, dustin visits eddied grave with his bike, which vandalized to the gods and guess who did it; thats right the bullies.

which will probably paralel maxs scene on billys grave

I wanna believe we get a heartfelt speech about his and mikes relationship with eddie, warming the ground for more eddie flashbacks to come. No, he wont get vecnad here, but rather found and beaten up by andi and the bullies, cus he was seen with a bruised face later on

and yes, the projector scene is also from the same day.

Another interesting thing to point out here is how the duffers said that our characters will start the season in action, so all the el scenes fighting vecna in the upside down and all the lights flickering, theyre all from the first 2 episodes.

After school and after the graveyard, with propably a few new scenes taking place in the middle, they all go to the new station set, and as it seems the byers are doing a presentation??

Probably from their experience in the uspide down, or most likely explaining sth about vecnas connection.

Orrr its a group thing, idk.

The thing is, dustin is beaten up standing next to steve. My bets are that hell notice dustin is hurt and make a huge deal about it, argue with the party on why he was found like that in the first place.

This would also be a chance to bring up the dynamics from the previous seasons and their flaws, aka dustin being with steve more time than he was with the party or others.

The thing is, in the same scene we see this;

M4tt showing n0ah how to choke.

Things most likely get heated in this scene, and that triggers wills connection with vecna. The mindflayer activates, and he becomes like billy.

And who else flayed choked sb else prior to this?

LETS GO BABY WE ROLL !!

Will will attack someone, most likely steve, cus he was also shown beaten up later in the teaser, especially in the car scene with nancy n johnathan.

Which leads us to this leak;

Its night, right outside the radio station. My guess is that steve tries to escape but part of him stays cus hell its will that attacks, that boy is harmless, right? While will is just there, chocking him and bagginf him to run.

Its the perfect lead up imo; first he feels the mf getting closer, then he has the vision and then he gets activated.

i feel like this is the cliffhanger between e1 and e2, since it would be perfect to have us waiting for steves safety and wills sanity for the next episode.

Bonus bonus;

Nancys Candy striper outfit

Going undercover in ep 1 was not on mybingo card, so im guessing shes an actual vollunteer at the hospital, because shed have to gain trust in order to sneak in and steal files.

but then again, why from tyhe hospital? all this place has ws maxs condition, which was already known to her and the rest of the team.

Involving her with such type of environment is simply to create more paraelels from the hmh scenes in s3.

Now, we also got this leak from april, and its most likely for ep4

the vollunteer is obviously nancy, but for her to return to that outfit, shell have to wear it again. So that means what i said, she became a vollunteer to gain trust and steal the proper files from the turnbows mansion thats connected to the lab.

Wills outfit also indicates its from a later episode.

As for the hopper scenes, idk a lot to break it down. And for el, this must be in ep 1 since this is unfinished bussiness from the piggyback if u nthink abt it

Thats it, hope you enjoyed my brain fart and i hope im right.

[therainscene]

There’s a genre of anti-Byler argument that I like to call But It Was The 80s.

I’m sure you’re familiar with it: Will getting his heart broken would be good rep actually, because that’s just what it was like in the 80s; Mike being queer too would be unrealistic, because there weren’t that many gay people back then; and did queers ever really experience joy prior to 2015 anyway?

...But I think it’s worth taking a look at what the show is trying to tell us about being queer in the 80s. Stories, especially ones with fantastical elements such as monsters and superpowers, aren’t obligated to be perfectly realistic so long as they resonate with our experiences.

So how does Stranger Things resonate with queerness?

Every season so far has given us an iconic moment in which a character tries to stand up to a monster and is horribly punished for it:

In S1, Will loads a gun and faces the Demogorgon in self-defense... but he can’t fight it and gets dragged into the Upside Down.

In S2, Will takes Bob’s advice to tell the Mind Flayer to go away... but it gives zero fucks and consumes him anyway.

In S3, a small act of compassion from El inspires Billy to betray the Mind Flayer... but he’s immediately killed for trying.

In S4, Eddie decides that he’s done with running, so he distracts the bats to buy his friends more time... and succeeds! But at the cost of his own life. A waste, given that his friends’ plan to kill Vecna didn’t even work.

The show even brings this (lack of) progression full circle by paralleling Will and Eddie’s disappearances:

If we read the monsters as metaphors for the overwhelming force of bigotry and conformity in the 80s, it seems as though the show is telling us that there’s no point in trying to fight back, because it will crush you back down every time.

Indeed, we see a more literal but subtle version of this message play out in S3′s rain fight -- Will tries to call Mike out on losing himself to comphet, but Mike defensively lashes out at him, (unintentionally) reminding Will that he doesn’t have the right to question heteronormativity. Devastated that not even his plan to be Best Friends Forever with Mike was an acceptable compromise, Will takes that reminder to heart.

This definitely resonates with what it felt like to be a queer adolescent in the 80s... (and 90s... and 00s...) but it’s an awfully bleak message. Is that really the story Stranger Things is trying to tell?

The rain fight is the lowest moment in Will’s arc -- it’s only uphill for him from here.

In S4, he repairs his friendship with Mike and accepts that this is the best he can hope for, which is exactly the sort of bittersweet note a bleak story about the reality of being gay in the 80s might end on... if Will didn’t have a whole season’s worth of uphill journey left to do.

Let’s take another look at those iconic monster-facing moments. Was there really a lack of progression there, or were they, too, building up to something?

In S1, Jonathan and Joyce aren’t home and the phone isn’t working, forcing Will to face the Demogorgon by himself.

In S2, Will is emboldened by advice from an ally... but that ally, though well-meaning, has no idea what he’s talking about, and isn’t there by Will’s side when the time comes to actually face the monster.

In S3, El’s act of compassion is too little too late, and Billy doesn’t have time to fix his mistakes and team up with the party.

In S4, Eddie ignores Dustin’s demands to regroup with him, and faces the bats alone. The rest of the party are working as a team to fight Vecna... but interestingly, Will isn’t there to help them form a plan.

The problem isn’t that the monster is undefeatable -- it just can’t be defeated by any one person, nor can it be defeated without the guidance of its victims who understand it better than anyone else.

Yes, in S4 they have Max, who provides some helpful insight, but this is her first time dealing with Vecna -- she doesn’t have the level of experience that Will does. Compare to S1, when Joyce reaches out to Will through the lights for advice on how to rescue him -- he provides a little insight, but ultimately, Joyce doesn’t get the information she needs until she teams up with someone with lived experience.

This principle isn’t unique to queerness, of course, but it certainly resonates strongly with queerness.

The 80s may have been a godawful time to be gay, but it’s hardly as though gay pride didn’t exist. The progress that we’ve made since then was only possible because the LGBTQ+ community banded together and fought for their rights -- in the 80s.

And that’s the deeply homophobic core of But It Was The 80s as an argument: that queers shouldn’t remember the work done by our elders or be inspired to do the same, but instead swallow the lie that cishet society benevolently decided on its own to stop being homophobic. That we should be thankful for what scraps they’ve granted us, and wait patiently in the closet for them to grant us more.

Where Will finds himself at the end of S4 -- grateful that at least he’s loved platonically and too beaten down to ask for more -- is precisely where the heteronormative audience expects him to be. His queer arc has satisfactorily resolved itself, as far as they’re concerned, so in S5 he might as well die or become a villain or whatever.

Or, more charitably, he can unlock his powers and be the hero, but only on the condition that it’s strictly a metaphor for coping with trauma and he doesn’t get all gay about it.

But he is absolutely going to get all gay about it.

Will’s story, much like Stranger Things as a whole, isn’t about accepting the bleakness of being an outcast in the 80s -- it’s about staring that bleakness in the face and saying: “Unacceptable. I deserve to be happy on my own terms.”

[heyitspersephone]

Thinking about stranger things again now that the strikes are over and how, narratively, it would be way, WAY cooler to have Mike get Vecna’d instead of Will in s5

It’s just something about the way Mike’s trauma is never addressed or handled in any way?? Like, he hugs his mom twice and then when he was depressed in season 2 and 4 nobody did anything (his parents scolded him for his behavior in s2 ig but that’s not support). His best friend went missing leaving from his house, he watched his body get pulled from the quarry, watched El (in his eyes) kill herself stopping the demogorgon, watched Will be possessed, saw Bob die, was in Star Court when everything went down, saw Billy die, had his best friend move away, was SHOT AT (and really too few people talk about the shooting in Cali bc omg??), buried a body, and watched the apocalypse start. And that’s just off the top of my head.

(And yes I’m aware that the other characters (especially Will) are traumatized too but I will get to my point in a second just hold on)

The plot is geared towards this idea that Will and Henry have to have some big face off (and they should, in my opinion, but I don’t think it should be in a possession, or at least not the the Vecna kind of possession, yk?) but that makes it all the better, writing wise, to have mike be the one in danger. Will was helpless and hiding in s1, I think Will should get his big strong moments in s5 where he gets to be the hero of the story.

It would just be a lot more fun to work with Mike being Vecna’d than Will, because what are we going to bring up with Will’s visions? His dad? His sexuality? The events of s1 from his perspective? It would be cool to see, for sure, but we already know most of that. Mike, on the other hand, has a number of untapped things, like jumping off the quarry, why he’s so hesitant to tell El he loves her, how someone who was smart and kind enough to take El in in s1 and come up with the spy and sauna plans in s2 and s3 could turn into the oblivious asshole that he was in s3 and s4 (he needs therapy, ik, I still love his character but I want to explore the reasons he went from his s2 characterization to his s3 one)

It would be a very interesting parallel, I think, to explore Mike’s thought processes in this way, especially with all of Mike’s repression business (bc whether you ship byler or milkvan he is repressing his feelings HARD. Like, beyond his inability to say I love you there’s the fact that he doesn’t bring up the apparent many times he called pre-s4 during the Rink O Mania fight?? That literally would’ve absolved him of guilt in that argument since he WAS reaching out to Will the whole time? Hellooooo????).

Anyways, this all brings me to my main point: Vecna targets isolation as much as he targets trauma and guilt. The whole party was traumatized by the events in s1, s2, and s3, but Max was the one targeted. Plus, Henry went for Fred, Chrissy, and Patrick (I think his name was Patrick) instead of going for the perceivably easy targets that the mcs would make (ik narratively that would’ve made it more boring but shhh), so why Max and those three specifically? They were isolated. Lucas and Erica have each other, Dustin goes to Steve and Robin, Will and El have each other and Jonathan and Joyce, Nancy probably goes to Jonathan, and who does Mike go to?

No one. And don’t say Nancy because if those two have heart to hearts then I’m the next coming of Christ. Max separated herself from the Party in the aftermath of her grief and guilt over Billy, and it feels quite obvious that Mike was doing the same (like I said, he has repression issues). So Mike is traumatized, alone, and guilty (be it Will getting taken from Mike’s house, losing El in front of him multiple times, the many deaths he has witnessed, or the internalized homophobia angle), which makes him more of a target than Will, in my opinion (or at least an easier one, especially given his tendency to put himself on the line during fights (quarry, most of s2, s3 mindflayer fight), which would set him up on the suicidal ideation path)

Furthermore, as I’ve seen a few other people point out (and I can’t find the posts but one of them had eight screenshots of the various moments), Mike is always the one getting in the way, so it would be a strategic move for Henry to target him to get him out of the picture. Mike was the one that found El and got her involved in saving Will s1, he was the one who came up with the spy plan and called out the ambush in s2, he was the one to monologue Will out of his possession s2, he was the one with the sauna plan for Billy in s3, he was the one trying to help El get the strength to fight s4 (even if the monologue sucked ass it’s the intention that counts). As much as people like to hate on Mike, he is in the leader position most of the time when the party is grouped up (barring his mental health struggles slowing that down beginning of s3 and throughout s4, but he’s still capable of it). He’s the idea man, and he’s the one whose character’s foundations were built on the desire to keep his friends safe, so it would be a very fun plot line to watch him be the one targeted in s5. Like Will said, as lovestruck and cheesy as he was, Mike is the heart of the party when he’s on his A-game, so Henry should 100% be trying to keep him in the issues he’s been struggling with.

Obviously, Will and El are the Targets with a capital T for Henry since they’re the ones that got away or whatever, but I think Mike is a weakness of Will’s (and El’s tbh but also I think they need to have separate character arcs and I don’t exactly ship milkvan) that should be exploited.

TL;DR: Mike should get Vecna’d instead of Will in s5 because it would make sense in lore and be a very cool way to resolve his character arc

[emblazons]

—woke up from literal sleep to write down the thoughts that clicked for me after I made this post about the Mike/Hopper hug last night, so. Here's the expansion of all of that lmao.

people always talk about the way Mike looked conflicted when El kisses him in S3, on top of the way he seemed fine with them breaking up until she initiated the relationship again (because of the absence of Hopper). I think this is 100% true, and it’s also the start of Mike’s spiral about protecting her we see through S4.

Mike’s “care” in lieu of "love" for El (and lack of ability to tell her he loves he romantically) is directly correlated to Hopper telling him to BE CAREFUL re: El right before he died. Almost as though Mike didn’t even have space to think of El as a true romantic partner— he was too busy trying to hold up the end of her missing “dad," and why he didn't know what to do when she started talking about how she didn't belong (because he's fourteen and not capable of filling the shoes of her father lmao).

the reason why Mike said “I was worried too much about El” is because he was—he was worried in a way suited for a father, not a boyfriend (thank you @emily-tumbles-on for that tag lol).

It’s also why he was so willing to let El go back to Owens—it’s a trusted (-ish) adult figure who could help El in a way his 14 year old self could not. It’s also why he immediately seems okay with letting her go once she says she wants to + throwing away her letter, right up until he realizes where El went is dangerous again, which meant he has to restart the protector-in-Hop’s place worry (which he doesn’t want, but feels powerless to step away from in his paladin-oath-responsibility mind).

When Mike & Will get into it at Rink O Mania over Will not telling Mike what was going on, Will interprets it as romantic attachment when it’s really giving “worried parent” not boyfriend.

That entire “you should have told me” also DIRECTLY REFLECTS the way Mike sees Will as his actual partner and equal no matter the time or distance (like in S2)—and expects him to help shoulder leadership responsibilities the way romantic/life partners would by helping him look after his charge (El).

The whole painting is confusing af for Mike because he does not see El as his partner or lover, but his responsibility in Hop’s absence—and Will, in his projection, is conflating his romantic love for Mike into the familial one between Mike & El. That's also why Mike feels so insecure about not being responsible enough (!!!) and why he looks dejected the way a parent would when you tell them you want do something they used to think was fun before having a kid when Will says “we could just play DnD and Nintendo for the rest of our lives.”

The van scene takes on a whole new meaning when you think about how the second Will made it about El, it forced Mike into a mental conundrum because he felt loved as himself at first…only to have it thrown back in with this wildly inappropriate parental responsibility he has for El because of Hop’s loss. (I watched the van scene again with this in mind and...lmao. Mike's expressions make absolute sense once you keep this conflation / confusion in mind)!

Yet another reason Mike and Jonathan need to have another conversation is because both of them have been suffering from a severe parentification—Jonathan for Will, and Mike for Eleven.

Hopper returning leaves space for both of them to move back into age-appropriate selfishness/relationships (aka think about their own wants and needs with Nancy and Will for a change) because Joyce doesn’t need Jonathan to fill the “man of the house” space, Will is going to “come of age” and have Mike, and El is gonna have her dad.

....all that to say these (and probably a million more things) become WAY clearer when you realize Mike is carrying the burden of Hopper's absence not as a boyfriend, but as 14 year old boy filling a parent space...which makes me really glad Hop didn't really die in S3 all of a sudden lmao. And also...Duffers. FREE MIKE WHEELER 2025

[erikiara80]

March 22nd and all the birthday references in ST

Will's birthday has always been important.

A birthday mug in episode 1

Same mug in Mike's basement. We see it in scenes with El in S1 and Will in S2. Yeah, I think birthdaygate could be about her, too. Will is the only character whose birthday was used to literally save him and the whole town. And we've seen El's birth and birth certificate, but we still don't know when she was born? Strange

The I forgot your birthday card in Will's room in S1

But in S2 we only see it when Joyce looks at the Will the Wise drawing. In all the other shots the card is not there, and the drawing is on another wall. This could be a hint at different timelines (of a timeloop?) More screenshots here

Basically, I have two theories about Will's birthday: either people really forgot it in S4, or the Will who was born on March 22 is the brown-eyed Will in the Missing poster, in the timeline we see in the shed scene, and not the hazel-eyed Will we see in the rest of the show. Maybe they hid the truth in plain sight, they let people believe that his eyes were different because he was possessed. But then in S3 they show that Billy's eye color never changes (here) Can't wait to see what this means

No birthday card in these shots

Lesbianmindflayer found a video posted on the official IG account in August 2017. At the time, they had already filmed S2, they knew there was an important scene about Will's birthday, so why posting the wrong date? Is it actually a mistake, or that's really his birthday in another timeline? We'll see!

The amazing shed scene. One of my favorite! Joyce talks about Will's 8th birthday. That was in 1979, the year of the massacre. She also mentions his rainbowship, a hint at his queerness, but also a reference to the lab. And I think there's a connection to the "rainbow rocket" near Creel House, and the ship of Brenner's father, who was involved with Project Rainbow, and the first man to wind up in Dimension X. This scene is so important!

Will drawing a spaceship could also be a parallel to Olivia Dunham (Fringe), who drew what she saw in another universe. A Zeppelin

Olivia's drawing (Byler-Polivia parallel and Subject 13)

3x03. Happy Birthday and '76 on the poster. The lifeguard is talking to El and Max here. My theory about what this could mean and what might have happened in 1976 here and here

The original title of episode 3x06 was The Birthday. There is no birthday in that episode, but after the intro, the song that plays is Stand up and Meet your brother, and then El meets the Mind Flayer/Vecna (as a lab kid, Henry is kinda her brother), who is possessing a boy named William. A surfer boy.

Episode 3x08, posters of Firestarter and Sixteen Candles. Will is associated with fire, and in Sixteen Candles a girl hopeful thar her 16th birthday is the beginning of a great year, is shocked when her family forgets it because her sister is getting married the next day.

Sixteen Candles and a boy's 16th birthday are also mentioned in S4, and it is likely that S5 is set in 1987, after the time-jump, when Will is 16.

S4. There are so many mentions of birthdays in this season, it's crazy to think that the writers forgot Will's birthday.

Mentions of birthday and stolen thoughts in the opening scene.

Birthday party at Rink-o-mania. I could be wrong, but it looks like a party for two people, to me. And there's a hidden reference to the massacre. The game Asteroids was released in 1979 (here)

The scene that made many people believe that the writers forgot Will's birthday.

March 22. The Rink-o-mania scene is a parallel to the lab scenes, Asteroids was released in 1979, and the day of the massacre El remembered her birth. Maybe a hint that her birthday is also on March 22?

They call her little baby, and two of the bullies are twins.

Murray says that a one-year-old won't remember their birthday

Also, the wallpaper reminds me of these birds we see in his house, when Alexei explains how the two keys open a gate

Murray says that his "son" is almost 16

Mention of Sixteen Candles

Mike's Happy Birthday mug

At Suzie's, Will mentions Dustin's birthday

Yeah, I think something will happen to Will in 1987, when he's 16. And it won't be funny, lol. But he'll get his happy ending.

Happy birthday, Will!

[findafight]

hi i'm the anon that sent the ask about someone telling joyce and oh my god it being hopper that says it is so good. i can totally see him doing that. i also love that you added steve finding out from murray bc that's always been my preferred hc for how steve would find out. murray saying something about it that's weird and out of pocket is him to a tee imo. poor steve i feel so bad for him in this au, at least hopper is on his side completely. ty for acknowledging how fucked up it is that nancy and jonathan but esp nancy never actually told steve. i wonder what she would've done/told him if steve hadn't bit the bullet and broken up w her.

Thank youuuu (love getting ask mwah) (also idk what to call the au) Listen I loooove Steve and Hopper accidentally adopting each other. In my brain Dustin talked up Steve's hair skills to El at the snowball and she gets all starry-eyed like he knows! Hair? :0 Dustin you have to convince Steve to come over to my house and help me with my hair and I will convince hop to let him come! I also need hair advice!! Hop barely has hair!! Which is how Steve gets a little sister pre S3 (like he always wanted) (he also gets max a bit later too godbless) (sibling collector lmao) Steve 100% calls Hop dad once without realizing and Hopper gets choked up and Steve's like you okay there?? And Hop has to go yeah yeah I'm finE so he doesn't embarrass Steve. That's the shit. (Also makes more Steve and El angst post S3 with hop gone and them being separated ;-;)

Hopper gets to be a jackass to on his kid's behalf and I think that's actually beautiful.

Oh, yeah. The more I've thought about it the more I feel like Steve has no clue Nancy cheated on him. We saw how he acted in S1 when he thought so and while S2 Steve wouldn't be so extreme, he'd definitely be crushed. And with S4...idk I don't think Steve knew about the cheating then. It just seems like he wouldn't. Want to go back after being cheated on? Or that he'd have some serious hang ups with Nancy. Even if he still loved her if he knew she slept with Jonathan, would he want to act on it? Also did he know they were still together? Does she mention Jonathan at all to anyone but Fred?

Also Murray. You bizarre jackass. Of COURSE it was him. He'd feel guilty about it because he totally thought Steve knew and he was just trying to be a dickhead but not like. Cruel. so it's awwwkwaaaard and not the fun kind he can manipulate just the sad kind that has Hopper glaring at him.

Yeah... I understand that the writers do not feel like Nancy cheated but I have eyes and media comprehension and know how relationships work and Nancy herself said she had Steve back home to Murray so. What else am I supposed to think. I get why Nancy and Jon don't interact with Steve after the Upside Down but like. Not even to apologize to him? Did Nancy's relationship with Steve mean so little to her? I do think she, at one point, did love Steve, or convinced herself of it and did care for him, but for her to drop him like a hot potato the second Jonathan gets the nerve to make a move (she said she waited a month for him before going back to a probably grovelling Steve [based on how desperate he was at the Byers' to apologize to Jon] and it's like Woah! Okay writers! What do you want us to believe about this relationship?!) So just. Why didn't she actually tell Steve what happened? Idk. Jon I kinda get he and Steve were love rivals and Jonathan is already awkward it probably would have been weird and also it wasn't his place to say! It should have been Nancy!

Honestly if Steve hadn't broken things off....idk. I don't think she necessarily would have continued with both of them, but I think Nancy tends to look for easy ways out of relationship hurdles. So. Maybe it would have festered for a few months, before Steve finally couldn't stand the tension and cut things off there. I don't actually think, based on what we've seen in the show, the scene between Nancy and Steve could have gone any different. Like. It should have. Nancy definitely could have acknowledged her role in the crumbling relationship, but I think Steve letting her go is a significant character beat for him. He chooses he's not going to hold onto someone who doesn't want to be with him. For me that's him trying to move past his issues from his parents and to continue to be better.

Yeah this au is not nice to poor Steve. He does have support! Robin and Eddie are both there and know everything, Hopper and El also know most stuff and are very worried about why he's so keen to leave the house all the time (he doesn't live there but he doesn't...not live there...) Buddy's got issues that will be heightened by all these things happening with Joyce!

[will80sbyers]

wdym the speech are empty words?????? am I watching a different show 😭 aren't the outcasts saving the world every season even if they have losses too??? aren't the bad people getting killed off and punished every season??? what do you think this was about??

love & acceptance prevailing in the end has always been the narrative

Joyce, Jonathan and Mike's love for Will plus El's love for her family and friends saves the world in s2

even Billy's love for his mother made him choose to sacrifice himself in s3 and save the kids

this happens, plus Hopper going back to El

Eleven's love for her saves Max's life (even when she is meant to lose this season)

Stranger things having a tragic ending like the leaks would not make any sense... Vecna is dying, they are winning but probably losing one person that is important but not one of the main kids because they didn't live enough for it to not be too tragic

[wewebaggit]

i love how ur bio says safe space for hopper haters bc too many ppl in this fandom are always like “whaaaaat!? but how can u not like jopper 🥺” when he is not only a full grown man who abuses his power and was horrible to Joyce in s3 but also his character itself is literally copaganda

and it’s concerning and so weird (but also unsurprising) that jopper is like… elevated as this god tier ship, even in queer spaces, when in reality it’s pretty mid and also why would I want to ship Joyce byers with a cop

Hey booksandpaperss!

I am a safe space for ALL HATING. But specifically Jim Copper hate simply because he is shown a lot of undeserved grace by the fandom and the writers.

Since it's now in vogue to hate on s3 I'll take this opportunity to escape being called a negative nancy for once and just a hatering hater. Here goes:

My hate for Hopper is not as a result of season 3 but in fact it began with s2. (s1 a wee bit) But truly honestly deeply since season 2.

Hopper in season 2

After giving up Eleven's location in the prior season, Hopper then out of the goodness of his heart (😒) starts leaving Eggos for El in a reverse HansEl and GretEl. The feral El now has a home. But is it a home? Or just another prison? Hopper leaves her alone in the cabin with nothing but a TV. And so El spends her days mindlessly going through all the shit the idiot box has to offer. The only time she's actively interested in the TV is when she wants to use the static to get into the void. Because she has been kept away from the ONE friend she made out of the lab. And let's bffr. It's Mike. She is looking for Mike. And Mike too is the only one thinking about her. Hopper keeping her away from him and lying and being nothing but and angy aggressive cop of a dad is supposed to make the audience feel.....wait what are we supposed to feel? Mad at Hopper? Cuz the end result was people hating on El rebelling against Hopper. And it is all because El's resolution at the end of the Lost Sister episode was......that she needed to go back to Hopper and her friends. However, again it is a point in time when Hopper's at the lab and in mortal danger.

So since we love deep dives and shit and developing lore around characters, would she have been compelled to return to Hopper were he just, idk sitting in his cabin or at the station or whatever. A lot of ST is just about characters deciding to do stuff when someone is in REAL DANGER™️ But specifically with Hopper, he only steps up as dad when El's in danger. Otherwise he's treating her as a pet, something Mike was wrongfully accused of.

The whole entire (almost) year that El was with Hopper we do not see a change in her personality. Her rage has worsened. Her vocabulary is still lacking. In spite of the word of the days. There's no female presence in her life. He neither recruited Joyce nor her aunt (though that would have been sus, agreed n yet would it have been any different seeing as El managed to do it alone.) She's been held hostage for her own good.

Hopper: You put us in danger.

El: You promise. I go. I never leave. Nothing ever happens.

And then he grounds her. Like she was living it up otherwise. (S2E4)

We know it was because this was El's story of rebellion and trying to find her identity and so the story does not have Hopper do these things. But that still means that the story chose for Hopper to not do these things. He is even shown apologising (meh. half assed like his foil Mike, but that's for later) for it towards the end. And yet, that's something that's rarely discussed in fandom circles while talking about Hopper.

Hopper in Season 3

Oh he proves he's a blackhole alright. Sucked Joyce's character development. He's only marginally improved letting Mike see her but beyond that it's still mostly the same. She still is under-socialised. Speaks like that. El herself seeks out Max. Joyce is still too busy being ungrateful (I know not the intent, but the execution nonetheless) she's still not leaving the cabin much and has some curfew. Again which is, well why is it there? Cuz she's been coolly gallivanting with Max at the mall and everywhere else without a problem.

He's a proper asshole to Mike and a bully. Who tf threatens murder to a 13 year old kid? Like between having a chat and threatening homicide, he could come up with ZERO options. He needs emotional laxatives that aren't just anger and bullying.

Hopper in season 3 is an unfunny comic relief. A man baby. A bully who uses his cop privileges. Who treats the woman he supposedly likes like shit. He was so mad about Joyce not meeting up with him despite her telling him the reason. I mean mister you did that with Eleven too and just expected her to understand. The juvenile hUmOUr and the macho man action scenes where he's outwitting trained Russian mercenaries (lmao) is a step down from the basement he was already in. Him treating Alexei like shit when he was the only one who could have helped them. Make it make sense. (Anti-Russia/USSR pro USA copaganda and nothing else)

Also beyond all of this I simply hate Hopper for taking away valuable screentime from the kids that this show is supposedly about but hasn't really been that for some time now. He's a white male war veteran cop who's a Hawkins native and was a popular kid in school too. So he's not even an outsider in terms of being the new man in town, let alone the shit that really matters.

Hopper in Season 4

Not dead enough.

Jopper throughout the show

Mid chemistry. Joyce is already a semi-absent mother but becomes entirely absent after Hopper's message from Russia. She has ZERO clue of what her kids are going through in Cali and then has the fucking audacity to walk out on them without even letting them know that she might not return. She also leaves the only responsible person in that household with the charge as if she ever took it. She is now been relegated to being the comic relief which is neither comical and far from a relief and Hopper's girlfriend. Every season she has proven to be right on the money with her instincts and every season everyone including Hopper question her as if she's the dumb one. Hello. Do you guys clear up your memory after every season? It's annoying and one note. Hopper is a jealous manbaby all of s3 and a fucking liar. "i shOuldn't hAVe seNt yOu the LeTteR" Bitch u did. You wanted out. Dasvidaniya! El's college fund. But you'll only need it if you make it through school 🤷‍♀️. WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN HOMESCHOOL HELLO. Though I do commend the subversion of the found family trope where both the adults are pathetic parents. Do love one of the main couples being failparents! (is that a thing? or are they pioneers?)

[ledpipezepplin]

i was just thinking about the hopper-byers siblings and something came up in my head. bear with me, this is just a thought process.

in s4 and the previous seasons, there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of genuine connection between el and will and jonathan, the new found hopper-byers siblings. s1 and s2, nothing of course. in s3 they almost never interact, if ever, because they are separated and working with different parts of the party or as a whole group, never one on one (besides jonathan and el with the leg stuff), and when they leave hawkins, el rides with joyce. yes, el and will hug when they get reunited but that’s just a normal ‘i’m glad your okay’ sentiment of course they would feel that way and react like that after having lived and existed together for a few years. but at rink-o-mania, will barely seems concerned with why el is lying to mike, only mikes feelings about it are brought up. when angela shows up and everything goes down, will is concerned for el of course but that is only the second real instance where he shows brotherly concern for her and in the same sort of circumstance/issue. the first was when el was getting bullied and will was trying to comfort her. in the beginning of the season, el didn’t know or bother to ask will why he was painting so much, she just guessed about why and moved on, which is fine, she had her own stuff going on obviously. when el goes to jail and to get he powers back, will and jonathan are panicking and doing everything they can to make sure she’s okay and to get her back home, which is the first time this concern and connection is shown between all three siblings. and then the reunion is the third between will and el because jonathan and el aren’t shown to interact here. weird, in my opinion for finally getting your sister back and just sitting back and watching. they get to hawkins and stick together seemingly out of circumstance rather than desire for comfort or something and mike is the one pulling el and will together anyway. i might have missed some along the way but this is what i observed from memory.

but why don’t they have much genuine connection? they had a been living together more than half a year, did they just never have an actual heart-felt conversation? of course jonathan was high for most of it it seems, but will and el? they had time and opportunity to become each others source of comfort when they needed it, they were going through the move and stuff together, even though what they were experience was obviously different, they could have related to each other in a lot of ways. So why? you could chalk it up to will and el feeling at odds with the mike situation. the fight at the roller rink could have been a culmination of that in some way. but idk, that feels like too easy of an explanation for it to me. and it kinda diminishes will’s and el’s characters to their relationships with mike.

i will keep thinking about this, so if you have any ideas lmk!

[coniangray]

Whos watching life in Hawkins??

This hit me earlier when I realized all four stories of st4 had someone/ something being a know-it-all god or a heterodiagetic narrator watching and knowing everything all at once.

But not everywhere (pun intended)

All four storylines have both types of narrators:

A homodiegetic one, this being a character involved in the story and showing their prescription of things

A heterodiagetic one, aka the know-it-all god, recording and watching all the other characters.

Homodiegetic:

For the Hawkins plot it was max. For California it was Will and Mike. For the lab it was eleven, and for the prison it was Hopper (and I think Joyce on her way there, since the prison plot is somehow separate from Joyce and Yuri's plot).

I can tell, because we SEE all of those characters feelings displayed on screen in one way or another. Max was curious during the curse, therefore bringing the whole team together, Wills lingering in California was also shown through him only, Hopper's desparation and fear for joyce not making it safe ect.

The only one I'm on the fence about is Mike, since the last time we got a scene from his prospective was in s2 or at the rain fight in s3 I think. Aka, Mike's pov was not shown enough in s4, but it was there.

Heterodiagetic narrator:

This might sound tricky at first but it's not. Even though this narrator is not supposed to be a character at all: instead, they're just a messenger who convey the story from the writer to the reader (as all narrators do). They're a ghost, an entity, aka the camera of the characters.

But in this case, the narrator is in the show. Each plot has its own one, and that's what considered a god of their own nature.

I realized this from the security cameras and the memory storage of Brenner in Nina scenes. He was keeping and choosing which ones to show to El, aka choosing her path instead of her, which becomes clear in the show later on.

In Alaska, there was also security footage to which jopper had also access to later on.

As for California, they were also recorded/watched at some point. When? Right before the shooting.

The jokes about house arrest in this scene made me think the guards that were supposed to keep them same weren't just sitting, they were most likely recording the activity in the house due to protocol (at least i wanna believe it, considering Mike's house was anf might still be bugged since the end of s1 and the flashbacks in s2).

Also, in the van, they were most likely watched by El after she gained her powers.

And if all of these plots were watched by someone, then who was watching Hawkins?

Vecna.

I realized it from this video; vecna was legit searching for a source, another mind to curse in order to complete his plan.

The camera panning made me think he had access to anyone he wanted to. He could've chosen literally anyone in replacement of mike, but he went for Patrick instead.

Why? Because he knew he was in the same group with Lucas and Jason. As we saw, attacking Patrick triggered not just these two, but in total five people and the entire Hawkins team.

And became the wirters chose to plot wise.

My point is, the dynamics changed after his death, even in the slightest, bringing Lucas closer to max.

Now, because these gods are characters too, their own thoughts may interviene with what we see/ are shown, therefore leading everything back to homodiegetic or 1st person pov.

The main occupants here are Henry and of course, Brenner. Its like a domino effect, once brenner was watching one and now one is watching hawkins.

Their motives also beg to differ; Brenner was focusing more and only on logic, hence one disobeyed that rule and only relied on emotions, especially anger, to get his powers to their fullest potential, and thats what he also taught eleven.

But the main know it all god; The Mindflayer.

It literally watches everyone. Dustin said it himself:

A five star general that can open gates and watch. Tell us just His side of the story, messing with others memories, especially Wils, and everything related to him and el.

Aka, he can just change every detail he wants simply because he was watching.

Because his lenses were stronger than the other characters, and becuase he had and still has a devoted spy. A spy that can absorb information from inside.

And that spy is Will. even in season 4, even in the byler scenes, EVERYWHERE.

That kiiinda sounds like a hyperboly, but because the connection was there, it doesnt mean it was strong. The closer he got to hawkins, the stroger it got, thats why he felt him so intenesely at the cabin.

And here comes the unreliable narrator.

Most scenes are not shown excactly how things happen. Theyre not objective, theyre subjective, given how at least one persons pov is always involved.

This is also why there are a lot of variations of just one memory, why the void version of their timeline is slightly differrent, and why even though will saw mileven happy during the rinkomania skating scenes, an outsiders pov showed how they actually felt, dissapointed by everything.

One other thing id like to add, will MIGHT be playing the god role here too, taking in mind his ongoing connection with vecna and how this could eventually be displayed in vecnas mind if he wanted to. Hence the whole spy thing.

There was a post i read about El trading places with max and exchaging herself with a variant from another timeline, and that adds another layer to the unreliable narrator imo, thinking how the two days later el has different memories and knowledge than the el we knew from before and is now possibly dead.

The thing is, this unreliable narrator thing has SO many layers, and therfore shapes somewhat smalll plot holkes within scenes, especially in s1,2 and 4.

And it got even messier im 3 given hoe focusing solely on the mainstream 80's summer slasher movie vibe, some characters arcs were lost or outshined by others that had the chance to change their arcs for the better.

Yes, im talking about will who was sidelined a lot and then this was decided to be used as a weapon for the connection between him and the ud.

All the arcs are intertwined, but i CANT solve this untill we get s5. Its honestly frustrating like GIMME THE SOLUTION BRUHHHH

[entelodontidae]

Word Parallels in Stranger Things

These are just ones I’ve noticed so far!

——————————————————

You don’t love me?

Its bullshit.

Nancy to Steve, S2 E2

It’s romantic.

Its bullshit.

Max and Dustin commenting on Mike and El, S3 E1

——————————————————

Lucas to Max, S4 E4

“I thought we lost you.”

Joyce to Hopper, S4 E?

“Thought I lost you.”

Mike to Will, S4 E4

“Maybe I feel like I lost you or something.”

——————————————————

Mike to Will, S4 E4

“Thanks, by the way. For knocking some sense into me, I was being a total self pitying idiot.”

Steve to Nancy, S4 E9

“I think like, right out of the gate, I’m super confident. But I’m also, like, an idiot. … Thank you, for giving my head the biggest thump of its life.”

——————————————————

“Holy shit. What happened to you?” Mike to Dustin, s2 e9

“Holy shit! What happened to you?” Richie to Ben, IT(2017)

——————————————————

“I can do anything, I’m the chief of police.”

Brody, Jaws

“I’m the chief of police, I can do anything.”

Hopper, s3

——————————————————

“That sounds nice.”

“Yeah?”

“Yeah.”

Nancy to Steve, S4 E7

“El needs you Mike, and she always will.”

“Yeah?”

“Yeah.”

Will to Mike, S4 E7

——————————————————

“So, he asked you to take me home?”

“Yeah, I mean, he was really upset.”

Nance to Jonathan, S2 E3

“I mean… she [El] told me what to draw. She commissioned it, basically.”

Will to Mike, S4 E8

——————————————————

I knew you were acting weird. I just thought it was because of Will.” Nancy, s1

“I thought you were acting weird. I thought it was because of Steve.” Mike, s1

——————————————————

Mike to El, s3

“You said nana was sick.” El

“She is-“ Mike, gestures for Lucas to play along

“She is, super sick.” Lucas

“That’s why we were here, actually-“ Mike

Followed by breakup

Mike to Will, s3

“Fine. You guys win. I’m going home.” - Will

“No- no we want to keep playing, right?” Mike, gets Lucas to play along

“Uh- yeah.” Lucas

“We were just joking around, let’s finish the campaign for real.” Mike

Followed by fight

——————————————————

“I feel like I’m losing my mind”

“Not anymore than I am”

Hopper and Joyce, S3 E3

“Sometimes I feel like I’m going crazy.”

“Me, too.”

“Hey, well, if we’re both going crazy, we’ll go crazy together, right?”

“Yeah. Crazy together.”

Mike to Will, S2 E2

“Only love makes you that crazy, sweetheart, and that damn stupid.”

Flo to Nancy, S2e6-8?

“You know, they do say it (love) makes you crazy.”

Mike to El, s3e7?

These might all just be coincidence, but it’s still fun to point them out!

[nicxxx5]

why will byers is autistic

i figured i would make this one to match my "why mike wheeler is autistic" post. also because of the last post i made...so here we go!

will is quiet and keeps to himself. (in s2 mike makes a comment that will is quiet and i forget if it was dustin or lucas that said he's always been like that)

he's artistically gifted. (will since s1 all the way through s4 has always been shown as being exceptionally good at art(

he's "socially behind". ((i couldn't think of a better way to word, but if someone has a better suggestion let me know) while the rest of the party is concerned with relationships in s3, will is more interested in playing dnd like they used to.)

he has a special interest in dnd. (in s3 when the other boys were interested in relationships, will just wanted to play dnd. also in s4, even though he wasn't playing dnd with the rest of the party while in california he still brought it into the painting he made for mike)

he doesn't like change. (in s3 he called mike out for ruining the party because he was too focused on el and wouldn't play dnd like they use to)

he struggles with emotions. (in s2 he struggles to explain what the mindflayer felt like and joyce suggested he draw what he felt. he often uses art to explain other things as well, like how a part of the mindflayer was still attached to him and in hawkins in s3.)

he has a small friend group. (his only friends are the party and he's not really shown to reach outside of that like lucas or el (i say el because even though she was bullied it was implied that she wanted to to make friends with other people). and within his friends he only really confides most of his thoughts on mike because he trusts him and doesn't feel like anyone else will understand.)

he's gay. i had to add it. autistic people also do tend to be queer

this is what i came up with so far. let me know your thoughts!