#and then a few episodes later when they're in the ud they talk about it and smooch.

[lighthouseas]

byler should get stoned and kiss and then pull away, realizing what they just did, so the tension is VERY high for the next few episodes until they get trapped in the upside down and finally kiss for real

[willbyersabyss]

The Upside Down is stuck on multiple days, not just November 6th, 1983. I've already discussed this possibility a little bit, but I collected more evidence and I want to make a longer theory post about it!

The Wheeler house is stuck on November 6th, 1983, but do we know that about the rest of the Upside Down?

This was mentioned in another post I made, but Robin literally says it herself. She says Nancy's house is stuck, not the entire thing. This line could be hinting at the UD having different time appearances in different locations.

So let's get into the evidence:

The most damning evidence of this theory is that the Snow Ball decorations are in the UD. The Snow Ball takes place in December, not November. Even the cars in the parking lot are the same. The sparkly lights hanging inside can be seen as well. If the entire UD is stuck in the same time, there's zero explanation for the Snow Ball decorations appearing there.

Joyce already had problems with her magnets before so they want us to look at these damn magnets! In the UD Byers house, the big pink magnet is low down on the fridge, but it's on the top in the real world. The pair of magnets that are above the pink magnet are not there at all in the UD. It's possible that the magnets fell and got rearranged during that week with all the crazy stuff happening, but it's definitely something to consider.

What if the magnets are different because this wasn’t a 1983 version of the Byers house?

This might be a bit of a stretch but we know that Joyce was working the night Will went missing. If the UD is stuck on that night, why isn't Joyce's car in front of the store she works at? Little weird.

Here's another one. On the right in the real world, there's a black car with a white top. This car is in that exact place in the UD. Will was in 1984, so why is that car in the same place in 1983? This goes for all of Will's s2 visions. I won't put photos for all of them, but each vision looks identical to the 1984 version of Hawkins instead of 1983.

All except for one.

This is where it gets weird. You could say that Will's visions are identical to 1984 because they're Vecna visions, not the actual Upside Down. If that were the case, why is the UD different from both 1984 and 1983 in one of his visions?

Look. There's no laundry in this vision. The second image is from 1984 and there's laundry on the line. There's also laundry in the 1983 version. But none in the UD? To be fair, the second pic was a few days after the vision so it's possible that they did laundry between the two scenes. But I don't like simple explanations! It's weird!

Ok so why is the UD stuck on different days? It has to do with memory travel. I think multiple people have travelled into different memories and this altered the appearance of the UD.

Max's Snow Ball memory is the reason why the decorations appear in the UD. There's even foreshadowing for this in the original Snow Ball episode! Max has a hair pin with a stained glass rose on it. El also has a bracelet with a little flower. This is because they meet there later on the other side and fight Vecna who is represented by the stained glass window!

Look at the lyrics that play during Lucas and Max's first kiss. "It's you I can't replace" is a very telling lyric here. People can't be replicated in the UD, but buildings can. Max's memory didn't have any people when she travelled there. She literally can't replace or replicate Lucas.

The next line talks about feeling cold. What place is described as cold? The Upside Down. Right. Also the entire song is filled with "I'll be watching you" lines which are self explanatory. She was being watched by Vecna. This is proven right with the Mind Flayer transition a bit later!

So what if the Mind Flayer was there during the Snow Ball not only for Will, but Max? We know a red storm follows Vecna/Mind Flayer wherever he goes. The Mind Flayer might have been there because Vecna and Max were there in the future (past?) in her memory. This is why the storm appears around Max’s memory as she’s fighting Vecna.

Notice how Will gets pulled into a version of the arcade that looks normal with no people before he arrives in the Upside Down version. Yeah. Same thing happened to Max. She saw a happy, normal version of the Snow Ball for a few minutes until it started rotting and replicating the UD. Will's change only took a couple of seconds, but he's been in the UD before, so it doesn't take long to convince his mind that he's there.

The similarities here show that Will may have memory hopped like Max did at some point!

Look at this! The first image is Castle Byers in 1983. On the table to the right, there's a microscope in the UD version. That microscope isn't there in the 1983 version. You know when it is there? The 1982 memory Joyce recalls. The lion plushie also moved which either means 1. Will was cuddling it in the UD (cried typing this) or 2. the UD version is not the 1983 version.

After Joyce recalls the 1982 memory, the sheet blows aggressively in the wind. The wind isn't that strong elsewhere in this scene. What if that wind was Will travelling into a Castle Byers memory? When Max travelled to the Snow Ball, her hair also blew in the wind! (partially because Billy threw a door across the room but work with me here). I bet the version of Castle Byers in the UD is either the Joyce memory here or the memory of him building it with Jonathan.

What if each time they flipped to a memory of Will in s1, he was travelling into that memory and transforming the UD to replicate it? He kept trying to hide in a happy memory, but it always ended up rotten because of Vecna.

So when Will was initially kidnapped, he tried to go back to the Wheeler house memory to save himself. That’s why their house is stuck on that day but the rest of the UD isn’t.

It's also totally possible that some of the locations in the UD replicate future memory hopping. Maybe some characters in s5 will hide in a happy memory and alter the UD. Some parts of the UD could be from the future!

The Upside Down might be like a meeting place for memories and mind weirdness. Multiple connected mindscapes? One mindscape they're all tapping into? A random void-like dimension that they go to when they enter their own minds? Many possibilities! All I know is that the UD isn't stuck on one day and Max's Snow Ball memory definitely had something to do with that. Memory hopping changed that damn dimension!

[reikunrei]

Shadows, Saving, and Simulations

A while back, I made a post (that I can no longer find) about some random bits of a couple episodes of Doctor Who that gave me some Stranger Things vibes with the intent of seeing if my inkling was warranted. Well, I finally watched the episodes again.

They are season 4, episodes 8 and 9, "Silence in the Library" and "Forest of the Dead."

The monster of these episodes are called the Vashta Nerada. We never actually see them, but they take the shape of shadows/exist as swarms within the darkness. They were the main reason why I initially thought of these episodes because of their being possible inspiration for the Shadow in Stranger Things, because while the Shadow/Mind Flayer is presented as one (mostly) singular, tangible being, the hive mind aspect of it/the UD is very similar to how the Vashta Nerada operate and communicate amongst each other to hunt.

There are even several characters who become "puppets" of the Vashta Nerada. Though while the don't actually go into the victims, the language is similar in that the Doctor says they become "infected" by the Vashta Nerada. They'll even attach themselves to a victim before consuming them to keep them "fresh" and to infect others. These victims wind up having two shadows: one benign and one infected.

The Vashta Nerada can strip flesh from bone in a fraction of a second, so the victims are dead in an instant and the swarm inhabits the suit they're wearing and manipulates that into moving. It starts off clunky and slow, but as the episode progresses, they get better at moving the suits to keep up with the others.

We even get a fun "strangling the person who's trying to help" moment. Hi, Joyce!

We're also introduced to a concept called "Data Ghosting." The members of the expedition party, the ones in the white suits, are each equipped with a communication device which, upon death of the wearer, hangs on to a copy of their consciousness anywhere from a few seconds to several hours afterward. These "ghosts" can continue to speak to the living until they deteriorate, often repeating a final word or phrase as their consciousness officially leaves.

At one point, the Doctor tries speaking to the Vashta Nerada, encouraging them to use the the lingering "data ghost" of one of the victims to manipulate their speech into telling the Doctor what they want. This occurs later as well when another victim is infected. Though, as the Doctor said earlier, "they're learning."

Anita, a member of the expedition, ultimately finds she has a second shadow, and in an attempt to trick the Vashta Nerada into believing they've already gotten inside her suit, they tint the visor. However, this proves futile, but nobody notices that she's been killed for a good long while, and she even continues talking, keeping pace as they run, and carrying herself like a normal person until the Doctor makes it clear he spotted that she's back down to one shadow.

I had completely forgotten about the "Data Ghosting" aspect of these episodes, so while I went into it thinking "ah, yes, a living shadow that puppets dead people in an attempt to kill others" was a pretty fun little similarity to the Mind Flayer, I didn't expect to then have "the shadow is trying to mimic the infected person in order to cause more damage."

Obviously, this isn't exactly like what's happening with, say, the flayed victims in ST who are still themselves but heightened to a certain degree rather than being wholly replaced (ie. Billy being angrier than usual). However, it specifically makes me think of this theory by @aemiron-main that, for example, "Henry" isn't Henry in TFS, and perhaps certain characters have been replaced with shapeshifters or doppelganger-type monsters. The Vashta Nerada are even feeding off of the remaining "data ghosts" in order to communicate, much like how a doppelganger would have to feed off of/consume their victim in order to pass as that person.

Now, with all that out of the way, let's get to the fun bit: NINA parallels.

These episodes take place on a planet-sized library which was constructed for the consciousness of a little girl to live in for eternity. The little girl, Charlotte, was dying of an incurable disease, so her grandfather created The Library for her to enjoy every book ever written, meanwhile also giving her an imaginary world to exist in as a "real girl," which leads her to believe that The Library is her imagination rather than the reverse reality.

However, as the Doctor, his companion Donna, and the expedition team fall under threat of the Vashta Nerada, Charlotte's psychologist, Dr. Moon, reveals to her the truth.

Yes, he even calls them nightmares!! Just like Henry calls his visions in TFS!!

Throughout the episode, we see Charlotte in her imaginary "real world" interacting with the library.

When the Doctor and Donna first "meet" her, what they actually come across is a hovering, sphere-shaped security camera that shuts off when Charlotte opens her eyes in her "real world." Then, when the Doctor tries to turn the security camera back on using his Sonic Screwdriver (a multi-purpose tool he carries with him), we see Charlotte reacting to the sound it emits/feeling the Doctor forcing the security camera back on, but her father and Dr. Moon don't hear the sound at all.

There are several other instances where Charlotte will hear something that's caused by commotion in the library, but her father in the "real world" can't hear it. At one point, the expedition team are trying to crack into the security protocols for the library in an attempt to find a way out/figure out what's going on, but they hit a wall and trigger an alarm. The alarm manifests as a phone ringing in Charlotte's living room, but when she asks her dad if he's going to pick it up, he says the phone isn't ringing.

Then, in an attempt to break through the security protocols even further, the Doctor winds up transmitting himself onto her TV and they speak briefly to each other. At this point, the Doctor & Co. have yet to know what Charlotte's relation is to the library, but she recognizes him as the man she saw "in my library." Before the Doctor can question her on that, the connection is lost.

Throughout the rest of the episode, we then see Charlotte "watching" what's happening in the library on her TV. She's basically watching the Doctor Who episodes within the Doctor Who episodes, and when she flips through channels, she switches to new scenes/shots. They even have a musical score that is very clearly coming from her TV. Her dad is unaware of this as well, and when she makes comments about the library being "on TV now," he chuckles and reminds her that the library is in her imagination.

Obviously, a lot of this reminded me of El talking to Brenner when she's in NINA in ST4, as well as the several times the grandfather clock chimes in TFS despite its otherwise glaring absence throughout the whole show. There's even that one moment before the attic sequence with Patty where Henry gets interrupted by the clock chime, but Patty doesn't seem to react to it at all, she only reacts to Henry reacting.

Not to mention the Vecna visions in ST4 and seeing/hearing the grandfather clock/other aspects of the vision when no one else can, El's running in and out of the Rainbow Room/shouting eliciting little to no reaction from the other kids, and Henry's weird half-real/half-not visions throughout all of TFS.

Let's talk more about Charlotte's "real world."

At the end of the first episode, Donna, while being transported to the TARDIS to be kept safe, gets mysteriously grabbed "by" the library. While Charlotte is watching The Library on her TV, she flips to a channel that is not in the library. We see Donna pulled out of an ambulance on a gurney and taken inside a care facility, where we then see Dr. Moon enter her room. However, she doesn't know who he is or where she is until he "reminds" her.

Peep the two years...

He gently feeds her information that gets her to believe one "reality" over another. And while it's not exactly the same, it reminded me very much of Brenner urging El to "remember" in order to proceed through NINA, and it reminded me of all the times Henry or other characters pushed the "it's a dream/nightmare" sentiment in order to change the outcome of something.

Throughout the rest of their interactions, Dr. Moon says "and then you remembered" and "and then you forgot" very frequently. His motives may seem wishy-washy at this point, since he was telling Charlotte that the "real world" is just her imagination, but here he is telling Donna that the "real world" is real and her memories of the Doctor are just "dreams." From what I can gather, it's mostly just to keep Charlotte/the simulation stable.

In these moments when Dr. Moon "reminds" Donna of what she remembered/forgot, she often will then behave like Dr. Moon has just arrived, greeting him again and seeming surprised, like she forgot he was there/like they hadn't just had a conversation with each other.

The way time progresses within this world really stuck out to me. It's played off like Donna has memory issues, but in reality, whenever something is suggested to her/she thinks of doing something else/going somewhere, it simply... happens. For example, in that scene with Dr. Moon asking her about her "dreams," when he suggests they go for a walk, they're simply suddenly outside taking a walk. She asks him how they got outside, because, from her point of view, there was just a snap transition from her room to outside. He talks her through how they walked out of the building and she laughs it off like she simply forgot again.

This phenomenon is finally explained to her by another character who was in The Library with her, Miss Evangelista, who's sentient of the fact that this "real world" is all a simulation.

Miss Evangelista was the first victim of the Vashta Nerada. She hides her face in a black veil because she was copied into the simulation when she died, resulting in her getting scrambled physically and mentally. In the library, she was a pretty ditz, but in the simulation, she's a photo-booth-swirl-filter-looking genius.

And like... do I even need to say it?

At this point, I guess I should just out and say what's really going on here. Charlotte, full name Charlotte Abigail Lux, or CAL, is the hard drive for The Library.

Her consciousness was essentially made into the computer that runs the whole planet, and 100 years prior to the Doctor and Donna arriving, the Vashta Nerada hatched, alerting the security system that the library was under attack, and in an attempt to rescue the 4,022 people who were physically in The Library that day, the library tried to transport them all out of harm's way. However, with nowhere to send them, CAL saved all of the people to the hard drive in this imaginary "real world."

They spend a lot of time equating this imagined "real world" to a dream. Alongside Dr. Moon initially telling Charlotte that her visions of The Library are "nightmares," the Doctor, attempting to wake up the computer to save the data core before it self-destructs (Charlotte had a meltdown of sorts once Miss Evangelista made Donna realize that her world, her husband, her children, are all just a figment of her imagination/an idealized world/a dream. While overwhelmed, she deleted her dad and Dr. Moon by pressing buttons on her TV remote, and this resulted in The Library going into self-destruct mode. This was also partially because Dr. Moon is a personification of the computer's "doctor moon," a fake moon placed into The Library to act as a virus checker) equates its state to that of someone who's dreaming, and that's when the "child hooked up to a mainframe" situation is revealed, because she is dreaming.

Which leads me into my next detail of import in these episodes: names and identity.

As we've already explored, Charlotte's true identity/purpose remained a mystery for most of the run time. We're aware that she has some sort of influence on/ownership over The Library, and in that early scene with Dr. Moon we're told that her "imagination"/"nightmares" (read: The Library) are the real world. However, it's not until well into the second episode that we're officially told that Charlotte is CAL, and only once they understand that fact are they able to figure out what to do to save the library and everyone inside of it.

We're also introduced to the (future) recurring character River Song. From the first moment we meet her, we're aware that she knows the Doctor. However, the Doctor makes it clear that he doesn't know her. Ultimately, we learn that this is the first time he's ever met her, and it's the last time she's ever going to see him. Because of this, she has years of experience with him to make her trust him unequivocally, but he is very distrustful of her, seeing as she's a total stranger to him.

However, there is one thing she says to him, something that she whispers in his ear so no one, not even the audience, can hear what she says. And that one whisper has him instantly putting all of his trust in her. And what did she say?

Spoilers: later in the show, River and the Doctor get married. That's why she knows his true name, not just his "Doctor" moniker.

Obviously, all of this name and identity stuff has me staring at the Henry slash Vecna slash One nonsense, the existence of Edward Creel, and the general "which character actually is this" of the whole kit and caboodle.

In a similar vein, we get multiple instances of language like this from River:

And while this is clearly just a "you're not the man I know yet" type of sentiment, which is something she specifies, there was no way I could ignore the implications of that kind of dialogue being put into ST. Especially in regard to this post made by James @henrysglock and the general idea that the same person can exist simultaneously/interact with themselves/be both themselves and "someone else." This also happens a lot in DW, and different iterations of the Doctor will meet each other occasionally, and each Doctor is different enough from the other + any later regeneration's additional life experience will allow them to help in different ways.

Just something about the "future you" being the "real you" because that's the "most accurate" you, and all the "past" yous are half-baked, incomplete, and not quite you just yet.

Actually, before I continue, in a similar vein to James's post I linked above, I should explain that we even get a moment of the future Doctor helping the past (present) Doctor within these two episodes.

In order to save all of the people in the hard drive, they need to "restore" them. However, CAL, overwhelmed, doesn't have enough memory in order for it to work smoothly. The Doctor suggests he hook himself up to the mainframe in order to assist, but River offers herself up instead, saying that it'll kill him if he does it and she can't let that happen. Ultimately, she knocks him out, handcuffs him away from her, and takes his place, killing herself in order to restore all of the people in the hard drive.

Earlier in the episodes, we learn that River also has a Sonic Screwdriver, that fancy multi-tool I mentioned a while back. However, that's not something the Doctor just gives away to people. Just before he and Donna are to leave the library, he sets the screwdriver atop her diary, which he was planning to leave in the library along with all of the other books. But then... it clicks.

Why would he give her his Sonic Screwdriver? Why would he do that, knowing he (his future self) would never see her again after this?

He cracks the device open only to see a piece of hardware exactly like the communication device that enabled the "data ghosts" from earlier. He's able to rush back to the hard drive, Sonic in hand (he does have to go fast, she's dwindling), and deposits her into the mainframe for her to exist in the imagined reality of Charlotte with her friends who had been killed by the Vashta Nerada.

His future self, knowing she was going to die on this trip to The Library, planned ahead, knowing his past self would be smart enough to figure it out and save her.

Anyway, where was I? Cripes, this post is all over the place!!

Stranger Things, at the present moment, is a bit of a mess in terms of identity and who's-who. We're told one thing, but when you peel back the layers, you find about a dozen other deviating routes that point in an entirely different direction. As I mentioned earlier, we even get extra characters like Edward Creel, who add another entirely new series of layers to help further muddy the waters.

Blame is something central to the story of Stranger Things. Specifically, where it is wrongly placed.

It was already apparent to me (as to most people) that one of the keys to "beating Vecna" in the end will have to be figuring out who he really is. Given that they think they know his identity, and yet they still managed to not beat him, is clear evidence that they don't have the full picture yet. And, much like how the Doctor wasn't able to figure out how to save The Library until he knew who and what CAL was, our gaggle of teenagers and errant adults won't be able to save Vecna until they know who and what he is.

However, my big takeaway after watching these Doctor Who episodes was... is anything in NINA even real at all?

I personally think that it has to come from some kind of truth, and, at least in the case of El in NINA, I think some of those moments really are her memories. With TFS, I'm a little more willing to look at it and go "yeah all of this is entirely a simulation." Given how many facts are misaligned with on-film canon, the insistent way we're told "Henry" is Henry by Henry (and other characters).

And the number of times Henry says, "This isn't real." Sure, those were in moments of distress when he was experiencing effects of the Shadow, but it still makes me go... okay, "Henry," if that even is your real name... how much of this isn't real?

Donna, once faced with the reality of her world being a simulation/dream, finds herself hard-pressed to keep up the image of it. She starts becoming more aware of the weird way in which time passes, she realizes that every other child in the world is an exact copy of her own, and she finds it difficult to reassure her children of their existence when they confess that they feel like they're not real sometimes. And, after they tell her this, they vanish into thin air.

This, obviously, is where things diverge in terms of how this applies to ST. Obviously, the point of NINA was for El to be aware of the fact that they're memories and to collect them again in order to get her powers back/find the source of her strength. But that leads me again into: if she doesn't remember them, how does she know that they're her own? This has been talked about extensively by folks like Em and James, so I won't touch on it more than that, but I think it's a likely possibility that has to be considered going into ST5.

This is a bit easier to apply to "Henry" in TFS. While I agree that some of it has to be taken from reality in order to construct the world he's in, as I said prior, the inconsistencies and timelines not matching up (again, spoken about a lot by James and Em, especially stuff like the newspaper dates being wrong) makes it stink of something especially wrong.

In these Doctor Who episodes, all of the people that exist in that world are, in fact, also real people! I think the only exception are the children, as they were fully fabricated by Donna's "settle down and start a family" dream. At the end of the second episode, she even goes searching through library records to see if the man she "married" was one of the 4,022 people who'd been saved.

However, in the end, he was real. We see him trying to call out to her as she walks away with the Doctor, but he gets teleported out of the library before he can get her attention.

Not only did this remind me of idea that Patty might not be real, but it sort of put me further in the camp of "Patty in TFS isn't real, but Patty is a real person." Like, I genuinely don't think that she's a fully fabricated being, but rather she's taken from some other reality and molded to fit the current situation.

Which also reminds me of, in these Doctor Who episodes, there are statues throughout The Library which offer information to guests, and they have real human faces on them. Donna talks to one early on in the first episode and it gives some spiel about how it "chose" a face she would "like" from their data bank. The Doctor says it's "like donating an organ." This idea has been talked about irt Patty in TFS being so similar to Henry in terms of likes and desires (they're both comic/superhero nerds and they both want to get away from their abusive households) (I know either Em or James have posted about that but I cannot for the life of me find the posts lol). Not to mention that Patty winds up filling a sort of maternal role for Henry, who is without a proper maternal figure in his life, which Em talks about in posts like this one irt Patty also looking for a paternal figure in her life/rebelling against the one she has.

So, they're both looking for something specific of these relationships, and, at least from Henry's side, he gets given someone who shares his interests and experiences and is willing to give him love and affection when the "proper" person isn't willing to (even if it does go awry in the end, but, y'know).

I got a bit sidetracked there, but looping back to what I said just a little ways above about the purpose of El's NINA simulation being to be aware of the fact that they're memories and try to follow them "the right way"... it's, again, interesting to me that the only time we see "Henry" insisting something isn't real is when he's in a "bad vision," and it makes me wonder what would have happened if he'd been able to question reality outside of that as well. Other characters tell him it's a dream/nightmare/not real (whether that's actually Patty or a friend in disguise, like James suggests in one of the posts of his I linked earlier, is to be confirmed) and that helps to snap him out of it/ground himself... but what if we got more of that? Would all of it fall apart? Much like how, once Charlotte became fully aware of what was going on and the "reality" was questioned, she sent the library into self-destruct?

And looping back again to the "Patty isn't real" stuff and Em's doppelganger theory, if Henry was allowed to question himself, would we potentially learn that "Henry" really isn't Henry? Like Donna said, he "could have had a different name out [there]."

Okay I... think I need to stop myself from going any further, so here's some closing thoughts!!

In short, none of these ideas are new. James and Em have spoken extensively about NINA/TFS being fake, or interspersed with lies at the very least; they've spoken about there being missing information/scenes during/prior to the 1979 HNL massacre; and aaaall that other stuff I already linked. Stav @heroesbyler was also the first to talk about Brenner's Doctor/Time Lord coding, which is something I also talk more about in this post.

Ultimately, the fact that there were so many things that jumped out at me in these DW episodes that aligned with ideas presented not only in these theories about ST, but within ST itself, makes me think that those theories really aren't far off the mark.

And while none of this gave me any answers, it reinforced a lot of questions (and added some new ones) that make me eager to see how everything culminates in this upcoming final season.

What's real and what isn't? Who's real and who isn't? Which are memories and which are fabrications? Whose memories/dreams belong to themselves and which ones belong to someone else? Are they twisted/swapped to get a specific outcome someone else wants? Is anything idealized to make it more alluring? Who can we actually trust throughout this whole damn series?

[erikiara80]

More thoughts and a little theory about Dawson's Creek

This intrigues me so much. I keep thinking about it and I'm happy I'm not the only one.

This could be about a lot of things: Will and Mike, our world and the UD, and different timelines.

But why Dawson and Pacey? SPOILERS ON DAWSON'S CREEK

I have a theory. Many people thought that Dawson's Creek was about the love story of Dawson and his childhood friend, Joey. That they were endgame. But that's not what happens. Joey ends up with Pacey (the right choice, imo). So maybe the magnet means that the audience thinks that Mike and El will be together forever, but in the last season they'll reveal that Mike's love is Will.

So, Dawson doesn't end up with his childhood friend, but Mike does. I love it.

But these circles are definitely not just about Byler.

In Suzie's room there is a poster of the Constellations of the two Hemispheres, that looks a lot like the drawing. It's also important, imo, that they're talking about finding Nina, and that in S3 Suzie gave Dustin the constant to retrieve the two keys that could turn off the russian machine and close the gate.

The Constellation in the southern Hemisphere can be seen from Australia, which is called 'the land down under'.

Down under. Upside Down. @shippingfangirl013 noticed that this mention of Australia in S1 is probably a reference to the UD.

In fact, a few episodes later El uses the radio to channel Will in the UD

We can also see the word Explorer on Dustin's shirt in those scenes. Another connection with Vecna and the UD. In 4x07 and 4x09 One/Vecna says that he became an explorer. And Karen says that Holly is quite the explorer, after she sees the Demogorgon in the wall.

So, the two circles probably represent our world and the Upside Down. But since we still don't know what the Upside Down and Dimension X are, exactly, they could also refer to different timelines.

Other things that remind me of the two circles.

Two fans behind Dustin, when he throws a knotted bed sheet through the gate, "connecting" the two worlds.

And THIS scene, noticed by @chirpsythismorning

(her screenshots)

I believe that Twelve is Will (or represents Will's role in the story), and that Will and El are twins, so I find it extremely interesting that Brenner says 'If you leave your circle' (you lose) when Twelve is in the frame

And that the game starts with Two and Six. 2x6=12

Maybe Brenner's line is a hint about what happened when Will vanished from our world left his circle and ended up in the UD?

Much to think about.

[reidsbuckley]

as per byler twitter discourse as of late, I have come to realize a few things within some of mike's scenes (particularly with will) that give us some insight into his mind this season.

now, some of this is just opinion based on person experience, but for the most part it is a straightforward "this is what we see, so could this be what it means?" analysis, so without further ado:

mike's s4 body language (vol1)

before I get into the "byler" part of this, I want to start with the first episode of the season (chapter 1: the hellfire club).

note #1: this is where most of the personal opinion happens.

so in episode 1, the hellfire club, we obviously see the hawkin's gang first when mike is reading the letter on his bed and nancy comes in his room, startling him. in this scene as he scrambles to get ready as quick as possible, I noticed that his room is far more messy than any of the past seasons. if you take a look back to s1, let's say, when they're in his room it's spotless, even if he does have a few toys scattered around his dresser and nightstand and whatnot, but the floor is clean. now in s4, his room is rather messy, a huge pile of clothes on the floor, his bed not made, and from the slight glimpse we get of his closet even that seems to be a mess.

then as the episode goes on as he's at school and hanging around everyone, he smiles a few times, yes, but he still seems distant. like he's not all fully there, only half paying attention at all times. he only really seemed interested in conversation when talking about dnd, but even then when they were actually playing dnd, there were moments where he seemed less into it. now, personally, I think all of this is because he's struggling without will being in hawkins with him (which I will tie in to a later part of this analysis).

but regardless of what it is that's going on with mike, he's clearly struggling with something internally that, from what we can tell, no one else knows about.

moving on to the byler stuff...

in s4 e2, mike arrives at the airport in Lenora. when we get our first sight of him, he still doesn't look all that excited (whereas typically a person coming to see their friend and girlfriend for the first time after almost an entire year would be beaming, no?). that is until he sees everyone. but when mike sees will he immediately has a shift.

it's subtle, but it's there, and it's clear that mike almost hugged will back. almost. like, he had his palm flat, just like will, going close enough so they could pull each other into a hug, but like he stopped himself at the last second, forced himself not to, which is...weird. I mean, this is his best friend we're talking about whom he's known from when they first started to barely form memories. them hugging wouldn't have been weird. in fact, it was expected. him not hugging will was what made everything weird. and everyone picked up on it, including argyle (the only person who didn't was will, who thought that mike wasn't excited to see him, but that's not true).

then when mike asks will about the painting, he still has some excitement lingering, but that's laced with fear. with curiosity. concern. worry. every emotion that, in regards to will, has been constant since everything with the UD starting happened, when will first went missing, but this time it had nothing to do with the supernatural at all. it had to do with will simply being will, and mike simply being mike. it's so painfully clear that there's something pinching and pulling at mike all throughout the airport scene, furthered when he's talking to el saying "are your friends gonna meet us there?" and he takes the quickest glance at will as he says the word "friends". why was he so concerned about will when talking about his girlfriend's (what he thought to be) friends?

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next we have the roller rink, and as the three of them are walking inside mike (and will) looks so nervous. like, it has nothing to do with his facial expression and everything to do with his body movement. he's hiding his real feelings with a smile and conversation, but his hands are shaking. not much, but they are, and he's glancing around nervously ("it's a new place" yes, but it's the amount of glancing around that he's doing, looking back to the same places over and over, not giving himself a chance to really take it all in).

then of course when they're sitting down after skating he seems uninterested again (similar to in episode 1). like he's listening and paying attention, but he's not all there. like a part of his mind is somewhere else. and then after el gets pulled away by angela, he still seems on edge. so it's not his girlfriend making him nervous. that much has been established. but then if you look in the background as will watches over el, becoming worried, mike glances at will quickly before looking away, like if anyone sees him looking at will at all that it's going to be the end of the world.

when mike and will have their fight, he tries to play it off like it's will's fault all of this happened, but we know that's not true. and in the way that mike goes about blaming him, we see that mike was paying such close attention to will without even realizing it.

"you were! you were! you were- you were moping, you were rolling your eyes, you were barely talking. you practically sabotaged the whole day."

this is a recall to season 2 with him saying "he's quiet today", showcasing that he understands will on a deeper level than everyone else and that, even if he tries not to, he will always pick up on all of the little things will does and always know when something is wrong (and to add to this, mike was talking with el when will rolled his eyes, so mike wasn't even paying attention to her, but to will. he was watching will, we just don't get to see it).

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the next interaction between mike and will that really showcases that mike is going through something, where we get the smallest sliver of how he's feeling towards will, is in episode 4 (chapter 4: dear billy, aka the episode we have the script for).

for the first byler heart to heart of the season, just like 2 of the other 3, on its surface, is about will helping mike with his relationship, pushing him forward, getting him to say whatever it is that he needs to say, something that, for the relationship to grow and move forward, is a must. but then when they get to the end of this heart to heart, they veer from that, mike having a sudden mood change right before the following dialogue.

"Looks like it's gonna be up to us again." "It always is, isn't it?"

mike has a smug, smirky look on his face when he says his line, as if he knows the effect it's going to have on will, but then it doesn't, and he's caught of guard for a split second. he wasn't expecting will to respond, like, at all. he raises his eyebrows in surprise, turning his head to look at will, like he's maybe misheard or is hearing things, but the second their eyes lock his face softens and a smile immediately forms on his face, and suddenly will is the one with the smug, smirky look on his face and mike is the one who's smiling and blushing like an idiot. behind their words there's something more, and they both know that, and that's why they're both blushing and smiling in this scene, even if mike is more so than will.

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heart to heart #2, this one being strictly about them and their relationship. from the second mike enters, we can tell that he's still carrying around the feelings from the end of their last conversation, that same type of look on his face as he sits down on Will's bed.

"I didn't say it." "You didn't have to."

with having the script we already know how will was feeling, that he was flirting (even if neither of them realized it, just like before in the previous scene). but if will is flirting and being, as they said, coy, then it's safe to say that so was mike. I mean, they have the same/similar look on their faces and tone of voice.

talking about mike specifically, he makes that face. the smirk and look away, like he accepts that will is teasing him almost, before teasing back. reciprocating that feeling, that emotion that is being conveyed to him.

throughout the rest of this scene, we get what is probably the longest/only apology mike has ever given, and it's clear that it's hard for him to do so, but he's just apologizing to his best friend, right? so why is it so hard? it's not like in s3 he hadn't biked the miles across town to reach his house in the pouring rain before banging on his door and yelling an apology, begging for him to let them talk things out.

so starts to apologize, but before he can actually say that he's sorry, will cuts him off, but mike doesn't let it slide (he knows that will will try to brush it off like it's no big deal, even if it really hurt him). instead he pushes forward, explaining (almost) everything to will, why he's been so distant, so different.

"This past year has been...weird, you know? And, I mean, Max and Lucas and Dustin— they're great! They're great, it's just...it's Hawkins. It's not the same without you."

This part of his monologue here brings me back to episode 1. The dirty room, the pile of clothes on the floor, the unmade bed, the messy closet, the disinterest in the things going on around him— it's all because he misses Will and nothing feels the same without him. almost as if he can't do any of it without him.

And, I don't know, I guess maybe I was worrying too much about El that I feel like I lost you, or something...does that make sense?

Mike thought that he had lost will, that will didn't want for him to call, that will wasn't interested in any letters, that will didn't want to be a part of their friendship any longer.

I have no idea what's gonna happen next, but whatever it is, I think we should work together. I think it'll be easier if we're a team...friends...best friends."

mike hesitates here. he thinks about his next words, like what he's going to say could change everything between them, which is weird. all he's saying is that he wants to be will's friend, but he thinks about it before saying it, he looks like if he says it that there's no going back, that whatever it is that he's about to say could backfire on him completely (but by this point he knows that will wants to be his friends, so why the weirdness?).

before mike can even say "but whatever it is" without look away first and looking back with what could be classified as a terrified look on his face, and based on these words alone it doesn't make sense. not until you put the entirety of it together. this is mike's confession to will, and just like will's confession to mike, it's masked. he uses them being best friends as a cover for what he's really trying to convey, what he's really trying to say.

then the last line, that "best friends", is is Will Voice. that soft, low whisper that he only ever does for will when talking to will about will.

then the tires squeal outside and they two jump apart, even though they're not anywhere near each other, their heads snapping away and to the door as jonathan enters, acting like they've been caught stealing alcohol from the gas station, like they've done something wrong and that they shouldn't be doing.

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the triple take.

if you'll notice, he didn't look up because he thought will was looking at him. mike was thinking about something, and then he was looking up at will because of whatever it is that thought was about. but when he registered that will was already looking at him, he got nervous. flustered, even, as we see the slightest hard to see blush appear on his cheeks, but it's quickly hidden by his hair as he goes back to work. but the fact is, will looking at him made him nervous. Like, he was about to look at will the way will was looking at him, and he got nervous. that says a lot about how he's feeling.

now onto the car heart to heart, this one is, again, on the surface, the same concept as the first one. will helping mike to mend his relationship and to say whatever it is that he didn't get to say before. we get will's monologue.

"You can't listen to him. He's high out of his mind. He doesn't know what he's talking about." "That doesn't mean he's wrong." "Sometimes, I think it's just...scary to open up like that— to say how you really feel— especially to people you care about the most, because what if...what if they don't like the truth?"

While will is saying the words "what if they don't like the truth" mike is nodding along. like the truth would only hinder his relationship further. he's not just agreeing with what will is saying, but he he's thinking about and applying it into own life and relationship situation. he's about to say something in response, too, but is cut off by argyle talking about the pen and unknown hero agent man.

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even at suzie's there's something worth mentioning that happens. it's the most subtle thing in the world, but it happens. it's there.

I want you to watch this clip closely. notice how will moves the slightest bit close to mike, simply trying to get a better look at the computer screen. mike notices it immediately, and he allows himself to be that close to will for a mere second, but as soon as will moves his arm to readjust his sleeve, mike starts blinking rapidly, moving his arm to be bent the other way (something that could not have been comfortable at all), shifting all of his body wait to the opposite hand that it was on before, and all so that he's not so close to will. you can also see his breath hitch just a bit as he tries to take a deep breath in. again, weird.

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now, for media sake, I won't be analyzing vol2 in this post (tumblr let me use more than 10 forms of media challenge). that all will be in a separate analysis. but it all does, I think, tie nicely together in the end.

but to tie up this one on its own, mike is distancing himself from will. at first because he thought that's what will wanted, but then he found out through their fight that he was wrong. but from then on, why would he distance himself? the answer is: hawkins wasn't the same without him, but not in a friendship sort of way. it was in an "I don't think I could've lasted another day without seeing you" kind of way. like an "if I ever have to go back there and you're not coming with me, I might just not make it". or a "there's no way I can live in that town without you." or even "without you there I feel like I'm losing my mind".

so he misses will in a way that he's not even sure he knows what it means. he wants to be close with will, and he wants for them to have their friendship back, and he wants to be around will. but he's feeling something that he knows is different from how he feels about dustin and lucas. something that scares him, something that he's been brought up to think is wrong or not right, something that he might think will wouldn't be okay with, something that he's afraid could ruin his life and the relationships with everyone in it, something that he probably doesn't know how much "control" he has over (how long he'll be able to be around will without telling about all of it). every time that I've mentioned something being weird? that's just him being scared.