#andrey x goncharov

[make-loki-happy-again]

Okay but can we talk about how Goncharov, a movie that came out in 1973, with a plot set in an ALTERNATE HISTORY TIMELINE, does a way better job at portraying Estern European characters, culture, and political climate than Marvel does with the whole Sokovia bullshit????

[eggybaconeggyt]

Goncharov (1973)

Dir. Martin Scorsese

Screenplay by Matteo JWHJ

[helpfulhellhounds]

Andrey and Goncharov from Goncharov (1973).

[Image Description: A digital painting of Andrey and Goncharov with an abstract, colorful background. Andrey’s body is turned away, but he is looking back at Goncharov. Goncharov’s hand is curled around Andrey’s arm. Andrey wears a light green blazer, and Goncharov’s suit jacket is dark blue. End ID.]

[chaosvanquished]

may I add some humble memes to the fandom before this is over ?

[charliewrites99]

"men be like "im fighting demons" and then the demons be bisexuality" squad

[zorlok-if]

Not sorry. No shame. It's a truth that needs to be said.

[vergilbergart]

Love is just a history that they may prove, and when you're gone, I'll tell them my religion's you.

[themightiestacorn]

linear/non linear time in clocks/water in Goncharov (1973)

what’s fascinating to me about the clock theme in Goncharov is the way it contrasts with the frequent references to water (boathouse, bridge, anchovies, etc) in Katya’s storlyline. Both clocks and water deal with time—one of them linear and one of them non-linear. Scorsese is absolutely pulling from mythological rivers as pathways to the underworld that, in addition to bringing people from one world to another, alter a person’s experience of time and the chronology of events. Katya’s story begins with water as a manifestation of her relationship to non linear time as evidenced through Katya’s father’s death in a boathouse. Katya’s intense guilt begins in a place of water. When she leaves Goncharov for the last time before the betrayal, they meet on a bridge. She is once again surrounded by water as she is wracked with guilt. Goncharov is associated with linear time (through clocks) while Katya deals is the nonlinear. (Another piece of this that I’m too tired to write about here is the idea of queer time and the differences between Katya and Sofia’s relationship and Andrey and Goncharov’s as linked with the water/clock motifs respectively.)

[goncharov-incorrect-quotes]

Andrey late to the Mafia meeting: Sorry I was late I was doing stuff

Goncharov walking in after him: I’m stuff

Katya:

[szollibisz]

god the bridge scene always gets me

(based on @andrey-daddano 's fic)

[emptyshellofanillusionwizard]

Every bender needs a blackout

Every gauge deserves a top line

Every story needs a child who believes

The brave hero's gonna be just fine

You only have to check the papers to see

Some of these children end up just like me

Bleed out

I'm gonna bleed out

I'm gonna bleed out

I'm gonna bleed out

I'm gonna make a gigantic mess

But it meant something important I guess

Bleed out

I'm gonna bleed out

A re-draw of the fruitiest Goncharov scene :0

Also I think we Goncharov fans need to acknowledge how perfect the Bleed Out album by the mountain goats is for this movie...

[ney-pilled]

Guys look

LITERALLY GONCHAROV AND ANDREY OMG???

[missmahgenta]

Writing lessons we can take from Goncharov (1973)

Parallels, parallels, parallels: They can appear in many different ways, sometimes by repeating a single element (clocks are always in focus before something big happens), different characters having a similar storyline with similar elements (we see that with Mr. Goncharov and Andrey), different characters having polar opposite’s storylines ( Andrey and Katya are two good examples, as one of them is getting into a close relationship with Mr. Goncharov while the other growing apart from him every single day). Parallels are important because we, human beings, love recognizing patters in the things we consume, and as such that can help to better tell a specific theme or message.

Use colors to your favor: Colors are so important, and yet people sometimes resume them to just “the curtain is blue simply because it’s blue”. The scene where Katya and Sofia meet wouldn’t be the same without the incredible use of colours. Both of them were using neutral and rather cold colors in their clothing, which matched the distant and detached monochrome reality that they found themselves in, but the moment they crossed paths, the colors got more saturated and lively. The same can be said for the ending of Ice pick Joe’s character arc, who while was constantly seen with blood on his hands and clothes, never had blood on his clothes that contrasted so much with them, and that’s because for the first and last time, he feels regret and sorrow for taking someone’s life.

The clothes your characters use matter: Not every single aspect has to matter, but the most distinct ones should be able to assist in telling your audience what kind of character they are and what they are going through. Katya’s wardrobe starts as something very refined with loads of flowing layers and accessories, as she started as someone with a rather carefree nature and enjoyed showing herself off. Alas, with conflict arising in her life, her clothes get less and less ‘complex’, specially after almost dying at the boat scene. The colours also change, as said before. She started in beginning wearing exclusives white, but as the movie goes on, and after meeting with Sofia (whose main colour is black), she starts wearing more grays and dark greys. She’s getting less innocent, she’s maturing and is becoming more in sync with Sofia.

Dialogue is not only what your characters say: only 30% of the information transmitted during a conversation happens by speech. The rest is all facial expressions, body language in general (hand gestures, body positions, stimming, etc.) and what is left unsaid. A lot of the scenes between Mr. Goncharov and Andrey feel so homoerotic because of how their bodies behave, the lack of space between them and the brief pauses between certain phrases, to both breath and think of what was implied.

[ginnxtonic]

"Katya loved Goncharov more because she couldn’t shoot him" "Andrey loved Goncharov more because he shot him to save him from suffering a worse death" both of these discourses miss the fundamental point in Goncharov (1973) about the cyclical nature of abuse and how this ties into patriarchal gender binaries! It's about how these norms only allow men to express love/intimacy with other men through violence, and how to survive in a cut throat mafia world Katya has had to adopt those masculine traits which translate into violence against the one she loves.

Katya's own narrative arc deals intensely with the pain these binaries impart, albeit focused more on her being torn between her Russian and Italian lineages, representative of the two peoples' different experiences during World War II and with authoritarianism; it's why her dynamic with Sofia can't be entirely explained as either a stale Hollywood love triangle or sapphic longing (although it’s definitely sapphic af, I mean we all remember the apples scene!). Sofia of course represents the innocence of a life free from crime, but more than that, she is fully Italian, not caught between two cultures aka allegiances the way that Katya is. This is where the director's own life experience comes through (remember that Matteo also had an Italian mother, and had a “““very close male roommate””” for much of his adult life!)

Unlike a lot of women in mob movies, who are either presented as innocent mothers or black widows that want to usurp their male relatives' power (the classic Madonna/whore complex of it all!) Katya's actions are clearly explained as stemming from the violence she saw inflicted on her mother due to her father's gang activity. She is very aware of how women in this life are often the victims of their husband's/father's battles; but if being a proper innocent mob wife didn't save her mother, it didn't save her grandmother during the war, why should she wait around for her brother and her husband to fail her too? Why shouldn't she embrace the masculine violence and make it her own weapon, in true Lady Macbeth fashion??

But in the end she refuses to kill the man she loves, she defies this generational cycle of violence; which Goncharov interprets as a lack of love when it is in reality the complete opposite. But Andrey... oh, Andrey. Violence is the only love language he has ever known, and while Katya spends the entire film grappling with the culturally imposed binaries she straddles, Andrey's only option is to fully embrace the violence as the only form of intimacy available. When he kills Goncharov, it's both out of mercy and because this is the only means through which he is able to express the true depths of his love for him. Andrey is able to complete the cycle because Katya’s expression of love is inconceivable to him. It's the sort of subversive gender critique that flew over the heads of 70's audiences but has made the film ripe for modern viewers.

[emily84]

speaking of subtitles, i remember watching the original subbed version of goncharov at a scorsese retrospective years ago, at an italian festival i used to work at at the time, and they still used the italianized transcriptions of russian/soviet names back then, so it was andrej and katja and goncharev, and the iconic scene where andrej asks about the meaning of the ajvazovskij painting in the mark's gallery (aka the most subtextually homoerotic scene of all time)... and idk, i just miss the italian translitteration system man, wish we didn't just do it for classical music composers anymore.

[zorlok-if]

Another sneak peek of Creating Goncharov for your viewing pleasure.

[Image 1: A screenshot from Creating Goncharov of a passage made to look like an email. The subject is "RE: Andrey and Goncharov" and is being sent by "Tommy Osorio" to "Al B". The body of the email reads: "No! That's not it! Because then we cut to a shot of Goncharov lingering in the doorway of the balcony with his back to Andrei (the only light on his face coming from the lit cigarette between his lips, obviously), and he just stares into oblivion and, without looking back, says to Andrei, "Don't pray for me, old friend. I can't be saved by the man who damned me." And maybe we then cut to an extreme closeup of Andrei and he'll say something like, "Well, old friend. Why should I save you?" And he comes up really close, like we can see his freezing breath on Goncharov's ear, and he whispers real low. "I finally have you exactly where I want you." or maybe instead he just alludes to Paradise Lost with something like "Well, better to reign in Hell..." and then that links back to the apple scene. Like, ahhh! I don't know. I just have so many thoughts about these two. what do you think?" /end ID]

[Image 2: A screenshot from Creating Goncharov of another email passage. The subject is "RE: Andrey and Goncharov" and is being sent by "Al B" to "Tommy Osorio". The body of the email reads: "Hmm. Yeah I like it. But isn't it Andrey, not Andrei?" /end ID]

[Image 3: A screenshot from Creating Goncharov of another email passage. The subject is "RE: Andrey and Goncharov" and is being sent by "Al B" to "Tommy Osorio". The body of the email reads: "WHat?! DID YOU ACTUALLY READ WHAT I JUST SENT YOU?!?! How is that what you're focusing on? Is that really your only note!? Besides, it doesn't matter! We're making a MOVIE. No one is gonna see how it's spelled. (I mean, unless they were to stay for the credits sifting through every character's name looking for spelling errors, but NO ONE does that!) Freaking come on, Al! Actually contribute something for once. I'm begging you. Tell me, what do you think? Or can you not think for yourself? You condescending prick, for Pete's sake! Help me ship Andrey and Goncharov! Our time is running out..." /end ID]