#anti shipwars

[userlaylivia]

i literally can't stand anon hate!! hate in general is awful but when people hide behind a screen and refuse to show their url to hate someone it's just even worse!! can we please just stop this??? I got anon hate months ago because I multishipped and I ship bugvarchie and barchie not just barchie like can people grow up and be mature already???? then you got people anonymously hating people on their gifs just stop already I'm so tired of it and that's why I turned anon off and I refuse to turn it back on! shipwars/hate is why I need a couple days away from here other than dealing with my grief over my dad that is finally hitting me I miss when I barely saw hate unless I went looking for it ugh now it's everywhere!!!!

[bloomingdarkgarden]

people clinging to sjm's words from interviews that are now three years old or whatever like she didn't just completely rewrite the trajectory of her own novel in a few weeks and publish it regardless lol.

Like... this woman literally said x and x and x will happen in her newest book- not just concepts or themes but actual events and storylines. And in the end she just... didn't?

Does that not tell us all we need to know?

idk just something to consider for those holding a deathgrip on her commentary. What readers should truly be grasping is that SJM herself is a completely unreliable narrator lol.

[a-court-of-moonlight-and-ire]

I just saw an anti-elriel post that was essentially arguing that elriel wouldnt happen because we've already spent all this time in the night court and it wouldnt make sense not to explore the rest of prythian, the exact phrasing was something like "why would sjm limit herself like that and not explore the political machinations of the rest of this world shes built" as though thats not what shes BEEN doing since book two

[daniwib]

“If you’re writing to just get praise from the people who are mean to you, it’s just a big mistake"

- Tim Minear, 21st July 2024 (in this interview)

Wise words for everyone.

[cleradinel]

“why can’t bylers and milevens hold hands like elmaxers and lumaxers”

because they’ve been telling us all about how much they want will to die from aids, how much they want him to get rapped, how much they want lonnie to curb stomp him, and how much they want el and mike and the whole goddamn cast to beat his “ faggot ass’” up. 

hope that helps.

[lordofhaterism]

Just was reminded Az fucking. Regifted a necklace he just gave to this woman he has the hots for to a woman he barely knows rn. I need him killed

[sillyjimjam]

also just unfollowed someone because they broke my three strikes of stupid discourse rule but it blows because their memes were so crisp

[noa-ciharu]

Do you ever see a fandom and are like "man, I'm so glad I'm not in this fandom"?

[nightriumphs]

comedic relief isn’t cassian saying yo mama jokes it’s g*ynriel’s saying elriel is a sinking ship despite pages and books of canonical evidence to support otherwise

[kyliafanfiction]

Is there racism in the fandom for this ship? Yes. But there’s racism virtually everywhere.

Is the racism in the ship more prevalent than elsewhere? If no, then shut up.

[yaralulu]

I hate to engage in shipwar discourse but i’m feeling very anti elriel so 😄.

Elain and Azriel’s relationship is literally doomed before it even starts and I don’t understand how ppl don’t see this.

Fundamentally, Elain and Azriel want very different things that do not align together. Like Azriel’s whole shtick is wanting a mate. It’s literally all he wants. He believes finding his mate would make him worthy and would solve all his problems. He thinks a mating bond would be a blessing and gift from the mother and it would somehow rid him from all the horrible things he’s done bc if the mother thinks he’s worthy enough of a mate then maybe he’s not so irredeemable. He so desperately yearns for a mate that he’s literally become delusional about it and is questioning the cauldron. He wants a mate, he wants that validation and blessing from the mother.

Elain on the other hand, currently resents the mating bond and everything it means and doesn’t want it. She views the mating bond as this thing that ruined her relationship with grayson, as this thing that’s taking her choices away and she doesn’t see the value or gift in it. She wants nothing to do with it right now.

Their wants do not align. but it’s not just this it’s literally everything else.

Elain has expressed wanting to do greater things in life. She wanted to help out with the troves in acosf,she wants to help out with koschei and the upcoming war. She wants to be useful and to be seen.

Azriel would literally hate nothing more. He doesn’t want Elain in any danger, doesn’t even want her doing things that are slightly risky even if she wants to do them. Her wants are not a priority bc he just wants her safe and cooped up in her garden. In his eyes, she’s fragile and delicate and should not be exposed to such things.

Their wants do not align.

“oh but Azriel being happy without a mate and Elain getting a choice on who she’s with would be so poetic 🥺!!”

Azriel would literally spend the entire relationship wondering if he still has a mate out there bc the desire for one will always be there. and Elain would spend the entire relationship wondering what would’ve happened if she’d gotten with her mate instead because the bond will always be there. oh and if Lucien loses his mind, there’ll be that nice guilt to go with the doubt.

I get the appeal for this ship I really do. Light and dark. Sweet nice girl saves broken guy from the darkness within him. I get it. but like realistically? these two would not lasttt. I’d give them 4 months TOPS before they realize they have nothing in common and that their wants and vision for their lives do not align with one another.

they’re doomed in every way idk what to tell you.

[violetasteracademic]

On the different versions of Elain Archeron

*Deep breath*

Alright. This is a long one. So I went through the transcript of the infamous shipwar podcast on Spotify. I am not going to speak much on it, because it was honestly more disappointing than I could have ever imagined. Some of the worst takes being that Elain could still wind up with Grayson because he isn't dead and is still single. She could wind up with anyone alive and single, because SJM confirmed we have met her endgame love interest and that's it. She clearly doesn't have chemistry with Azriel OR L/ucien. Whoever she gets with next has to be a rebound so we shouldn't even be shipping her with anyone because she can't go into a new relationship without a fuck buddy first. I am going to stop here, because it was honestly over an hour of all of the worst takes I've ever heard about Elain. I do respect that Steph put an immediate stop to Ava trying to use Elain's pelvis as an indicator she and Azriel cannot be endgame, and refusing to engage in or platform that conversation.

It was a lot for me to take in at once. I honestly don't go into anti tags. I see a variety of takes because it simply happens, whether you want or intend for that or not, usually on Insta or tiktok where filters are less effective. I stay in my little bubble and frankly immediately block and do not engage with anyone who shows up in my comments to fight. I am extremely careful with my posts and tagging, and often ask my rebloggers to only use Elriel tags because I am not here to argue with other people online or convince anyone of anything. This is for fun, and more than that, my goal is to provide comfort. If I'm wrong about a fictional ship, I'm wrong. But if I made someone feel better and more hopeful during the process, then I'll never look back on this and be embarrassed about participating here. These are books. This is a fandom. I'm here for the joy. And yes, sometimes I get sassy. And when that side of me emerges, my hope is it can provide some laughter.

All that being said, while I can't say I am glad I read the transcript and overall wish that I hadn't, there is one piece I feel comfortable speaking on that I think distills what I believe to be the largest issue making the different takes people have on Elain's future so volatile, which is that the fandom has chosen to regard Elain as someone who either will be stagnant or move backwards to who she was prior to becoming Fae. Thus, having a completely backwards trajectory from her sisters. If this happens, I actually very much agree that Elain is boring. I just don't think that is going to happen, and I don't know why so many fans are accepting of the only confirmed FMC remaining in such a stagnant place. But let's get into it:

Essentially what we are seeing here is this:

E/lucien makes sense because of who Elain was before becoming Fae. I think what this fandom lacks is the ability to see growth or an arc in a traditionally feminine character.

We (Elriel's) don't expect Elain to become a warrior, but we also don't expect her to spend the rest of her days as a ball host and party planner/gossip queen living out her life as L/ucien's socialite wife without putting herself in danger. So E/lucien shippers are shipping a years old version of Elain because that is the version of her that makes sense with L/ucien. And there is this idea that Elain is the only one of the sisters that doesn't fit in or is unhappy, or wants to go back to being human or living in the human lands again. I've tackled that as well here.

I believe there are enough details in the books to prove that is absolutely not where we are headed (not to mention Elain has already killed a king, beat hellbeasts with her bare feet, and demand she be utilized to serve her court and find the Trove despite the danger, but I digress), but more than that, I think if people are honest about Elain being widely regarded as the most boring character, it makes very little sense to ship a storyline of stasis. People are very focused on who she used to be, versus who she is becoming, because they can't imagine a traditionally feminine character with no warrior training arc being good for anything but gossiping and hosting parties.

I don't want to beat a dead horse and re-write about the same points over and over, so if you are interested- I have broken down the grooming done to each Archeron sister and how it was deeply entrenched and part of all of them and their stories. Elain is likely to both use and overcome hers just as Feyre and Nesta both used and overcame theirs here.

Most importantly, Sarah has already told us that Elain's personality has been a mask, and that she has behaved in the way she thought wouldn't disappoint her family. But with time and safety, a new side of her will emerge.

Sarah showed us that she is aware that fans call Elain boring, and literally reminds everyone that she is not afraid to get her hands dirty and torn up by thorns.

When I see these conversations unfolding in the ACOSF bonus chapter, I see a different side of her emerging. I see we haven't yet seen all she has to offer.

I see growth. Emergence. Depth. Complexity. I see clarity that Elain's pretty, people pleasing behavior is not her. It is who she pretends to be to keep those around her happy.

I see her becoming more confrontational. I see her standing up for what she wants. I do not see her being set up to find her way back to the human lands so she can simply become who she was as a child once again.

It has already been established that a relationship with Azriel is pure risk. It could be destructive. It could threaten fragile peace and allies. Therefore, a relationship has been forbidden.

It has been established that exploring a relationship with L/ucien would resolve all of these pesky conflicts. It would best serve her family and her court and maintain peace. She would be exactly what she was groomed by her mother to be, a beautiful woman whose match and marriage will best serve her family. And her mother stated that it will be THEIR maneuvering's, not Elain's, that would win them an advantageous match:

Elain is not best suited to L/ucien. Her mask is. To believe that they are a good fit is to believe that Elain will not grow beyond being, as Ava says, the belle of the ball. A socialite. A beautiful woman who will marry whoever best serves her family's needs. To imagine Elain and L/ucien is to believe Elain will grow backwards, not forwards. Elain was eleven years old when much of this was established about her.

Elain was never intended to have a choice in her love life, but for her family to work behind her back to provide the most advantageous match. That story is playing out with L/ucien as Rhys has demanded that Azriel not interfere with the mating bond because of the threat it poses to the security of the Night Court's allies.

At the end of the day, there are two versions of Elain. The version of her that was groomed and pleasant and sweet, the version of her that will present herself exactly how her family wants to see her to keep them happy and pleased with her, OR the version of her that is growing stronger and sharpening her teeth. The version of her that may be able to utilize her smiles that can bring kings to their knees and convince anyone to do anything, just as Nesta used her dancing and political machinations, just as Feyre used her tracking and abilities, but will not let it define her.

What the sisters can do because of how they were raised does not inform who they love.

How they've been taught to be is not how they will remain.

And because I'm an Elain girlie first and foremost, I'd rather she start a goddamn war and burn the whole system to the ground to be with the man she loves and the man she CHOOSES for herself. I'd rather she say to hell with the consequences, and take control of her own life and her own narrative. I'd rather see her grooming be a tool in her tool belt that she now takes control of rather than a life sentence.

I want Elain Archeron to grow. I want her to define herself.

I want her to shed her mask and set the world on fire with her strength and her light.

The reason people are seeing two Elain's is because there are two Elain's. The author herself has made that quite clear.

I can't wait to see her tell us once and for all who she is going to be.

[jeonscatalyst]

People say that JK benefits a lot from being the center of major ships in the fandom and I don't disagree that he benefits a little but I do think its overblown and I say this as someone who very heavily biases Jimin compared to the other members. Why I bring this is up is because I stumbled upon a yoonmin account today once again and in all my years of coming across yoonminers and I've found only a handful of genuine double biased among those shippers. For the rest Jimin is only there to token stan and use as Yoongi's cheerleader. Yoonminers are almost across the board completely useless for Jimin in terms of supporting him, his music, defending him against antis or even liking him as an individual outside of Yoongi - and I'm talking about people who ship yoonmin as their main not even about tkkrs who have yoonmin as some kind of 2-for-1 package. So yeah as someone who's seen how useless being token stanned by shippers is, I'd say the benefits JK gets are probably because those shippers might actually like him. And even then there's a lot of shippers - and here I include all ships incl jikook - who sometimes only like both people in relation to the ship and you will only see them consuming ship related material.

So all this to say I think the positive affect of having shippers on your side is a bit exaggerated. It's as useful as having kpop stans by your side. You'll get some more likes and buzz on social media but when it comes to music or any actual support, most of them are useless unless as I said the shipper originally liked the member beyond the context of the ship. JK gets a lot of social media clout from all his shippers, y/n's etc of course and that is useful in creating the image of popularity don't get me wrong but there's a ton of idols who have a lot of exaggerated support on social media but whose music streams are extremely disappointing or whose stans support is extremely shallow because they like them for a ship or just for their looks

Sorry it took ages to get to your ask anon.

I agree with your observation and I believe I have mentioned this before. Many people think Jk actually benefits alot because he is shipped with taehyung and Jimin but I never thought that was true and I still don’t think it’s true. This is mainly because in most of the ships he is the center of, he is rarely ever the favourite. Most taekoookers are Taehyung biased and either have Jk as a bias wrecker or just like him because they think he is dating Tae or want him to be with Tae and the same goes for jikookers. Most jikookers are Jimin biased and either have Jk as a bias wrecker or only like him because they think he is dating Jimin or want him to be with Jimin. You can see how true this is in how easily he gets dropped or criticized after he doesn’t “act right” with one of these two.

I still remember how many jikookers became Jimin solos after Face and Seven era and how many taekookers dropped Jungkook like he was hot after Layover and even after Taennie. Jungkook is the one who constantly gets thrown under the bus and very few people actually care to defend him unless it is in relation to the ship, so no, Jungkook has never really benefited much from ships, if anything he had just been used in shipwars only to be abandoned or shaded and insulted, the moment he isn’t either treating Jimin like an egg or the moment he isn’t showing enough love for Tae as Tae shows to him.

Jimin is my bias and honestly I may never have noticed Jungkook as much if it wasn’t for his bond with Jimin but once I noticed him and got to know him not only as an idol but as a person, I grew to love him so much. I hate how misunderstood he is. It breaks my heart everytime I see people complain about him and accuse him of being rude or insensitive or abusive or selfish or all the nonsense taekookers, jikookers, solos and haters say about him when he doesn’t act the way they want him to because in my eyes Jungkook is one of the most innocent and most sensitive members. He is one who has the innocence of baby and is extremely kind and thoughtful. He isn’t perfect and he has his bratty moments and could sometimes be a little to blunt without realizing that his words could be hurtful but he is genuinely a good person and I love him so much.

I know that I have digressed but your ask made me remember that I had been planning to make a post about Jungkook because I got sick and tired of seeing everyone shit on him. I get sick and tired of seeing people treat him like he isn’t a human being yet people have the guts to say he benefits alot from both ships even though all he gets is hate and people constantly pretending to love him even though they do not hesitate to drop him when he doesn’t toe the line. Plus this shenanigans over the past few days have really broken my heart and I can’t believe how this fandom is turning against him just because he dared to speak out against something he probably has experienced himself.

Even people who aren’t shippers who claim to love him only love what he is and not who he is as a person. I cannot tell you how many times I go through the Jungkook tag here on tumblr trying to find good Jungkook focused blogs that have meaningful discussions about him as we have many Jimin focused blogs like that, but everytime I check, the tag is filled with shippers, fanfics or porn, I am tired. It’s like he is just a piece of meat for everyone to either use in ships or use in their Y/N fantasies. Very few people actually care to know who Jungkook is beyond his idol image and hot looks. Even the solos who claim to love him and stream for him only do that so they could have something to brag about among other solos because you can easily tell they don’t know the first thing about Jungkook and don’t care to know. They project unto him, call him a company puppet when they feel like it, potray him as someone who is abusive and rude and insensitive towards his members, infact to them, he is the epitome of a fuck boy and I am tired.

This isn’t me saying that there aren’t shippers or fans who genuinely love him and do things for him out of that love, there are and I am grateful for all the people like that but sometimes I just wish he had more people who genuinely love him not the ones who pretend to for one reason or the other but start showing their true colors once they are not satisfied with something he does or doesn’t do.

As for yoonminers, I don’t even want to talk about those ones because sometimes I feel like they disgust me more than taekookers do. They claim to love Jimin and Yoongi but they have no issue following and interacting with taekookers and taekook accounts that constantly hate on Jimin, are being shady towards him and his bond with Jungkook or are straightup weird. I have never cared about yoonminers enough to look into their demographic but from the little I have seen, they definitely only token stan Jimin and don’t even really give a tiny rats ass about him and for some weird reason, they have made Jimin’s Nevermind tattoo all about Yoongi🙄. Yoongi is one of my bias wreckers and I see his deep bond and friendship with Jimin but even I would never reduce Jimin’s tattoo to being all about Yoongi because that is just disrespectful and like you said, you would never see a yoonminer when it comes to defending Jimin.

My response was all over the place anon but I wanted to use your ask to vent because I’ve been feeling pissed about alot of shit related to Jungkook lately.

[nestastits]

If you hate Gwyn, give me a legitimate reason why other than her being with Azriel.

I’ve seen people claim she’s evil because she doesn’t wear her invoking stone. Even though there was literally an entire paragraph dedicated to why she feels unworthy of wearing it, but you know reading comprehension is dead for the antis. Plus, Ianthe literally wore one and she’s a rapist, murder, and traitor but Gwyn is more evil than her apparently?

I’ve seen people claim she’s a Lightsinger, something we know very little about and what we do know does not make sense with Gwyn’s history and appearance. Plus Nesta can fight off fae magic, so she would know if she was being lured. And if sjm decided to make Gwyn a Lightsinger, it would only make her better. But she’s not with the information we currently know of Gwyn.

I’ve seen people say she lied about her SA even though we have been told from precious Az and Mor how she was assaulted and by whom. And I can’t even begin to describe how fucked up and horrible you are in the head for even insinuating this.

I’ve seen people say it’s because she’s a child compared to others. But literally all the Archeron sisters are younger than her? Feyre was 19 when she was turned Fae. In acosf Feyre-21/22, Elain-23/24, and Nesta-24/25. Gwyn is 28.

I’ve seen people say she is too happy or excited about things, is that not how yall want Elain to be?

I’ve seen people say she’s a copy of Elain. Which is just pure idiocy. Elain and Gwyn have very different life styles. Elain and Gwyn like very different things. The only thing that makes them similar is their compassion for others.

I’ve seen people say they don’t trust her because Az’s shadows darted out at her breath. Azriel’s shadows were born from his loneliness and seek to protect him. They’ve been shown to love him too. His shadows darted out and danced with Gwyn’s breath, a considerable upgrade and show of affection compared to how they scatter away from other characters. They’ve been seen to hover around both cassian and Rhys, the people az calls his brothers, and Nesta-a friend of Az as seen in hofas. It does not mean anything bad for his shadows to fly around another character, I’d be more worried about them hiding from others.

The largest argument I’ve seen antis say is that they don’t like her because she made a man have a spark in his chest😑. If your ship is endgame, why do you care so much about the man having a spark in his chest for another woman? Unless of course this comes off as a red flag, which you should be hating az for not gwyn. Why do you hate her and make up shit for her to look bad just to bring another character up? If your ship is endgame, you should not be worried about the ONLY ACOTAR CHARACTER that has not done a single questionable thing (emerie too) to be hated for.

The only actual reason I’ve seen people hate her for always has to do with the shipwar, which is dumb as hell. But this also proves Gwyn/Azriel have done something to make you question the safety of your “endgame” ship🤔. Right?

[a-court-of-moonlight-and-ire]

Made it to chapter 16 today which means Feyre and I have both had our first impressions of Rhysand's Inner Circle and ohhhhhhh boy

Its hard to pinpoint why exactly, but theres something so discomforting about watching them interact. I think the main thing is that for all their "casual-ness", theres still clearly a rigid hierarchy between them and they all seem to 'know their place' so to speak, its not at all like Lucien and Tamlin's relationship in the first book which genuinely felt like a friendship that was unburdened by their status or positions. Like, theres this one moment where Mor and Amren are like kinda bickering with each other i guess, and Feyre remarks that Mor is probably super powerful if she dares talk back against Amren (in an incredibly minor matter Im pretty sure but I already forgor ngl) and because this is the book where Feyre's perspective starts being Objectively Correct all the time, I guess that's true, I guess the only reason someone would dare voice their opinion on something to this friend group is if they were physically more powerful because otherwise you just level a fucking mountain during an argument

Anyway, Im gonna switch topics for a short moment but I promise this diversion is relavant to the point above. So, sometimes when I go into the anti-tags on here looking for criticisms or complaints of the books, I instead find anti-ship posts that are mainly just about trash-talking some ship, mostly ones relating to that whole Elucien/Elriel/Gwynriel shipwar, which I already have thoughts on but I'll save those for later. In any case, one day I stumbled upon this pretty long anti-elriel post about how the gifts Elain gives Azriel on winter solstice arent actually cute and it describes how she gave him like, herbs that help with headaches "because his friends are always giving him headaches" apparently. And then that post went on a whole rant about how insensitive that was of her and that she doesnt actually understand Azriel's dynamic with his close friends, but honestly, judging from this chapter Elain was absolutely spot on

And I usually wouldn't say this because yknow, its only one chapter and we're probably gonna get the nuances of their relationship later, but this is a book written by Sarah J Maas, her characters and their relationships are rarely particularly deep and, more importantly, her writing is incredibly unsubtle. If Azriel was in any way fond of his friends shenaningans I wouldve noticed it, because Feyre wouldve noticed it like 15 times during that whole dinner. But she didnt.

Its especially bad for Cassian and Azriel because it feels like Cassian thinks they have this great rapport but Azriel just genuinely kinda dislikes him. Not to mention that whole fucking mess with Azriel and Mor and Cassian and Mor having sex so she wouldnt get married off or whatever, good god how is every conversation between them not insanely awkward

Even beyond that, idk man, theyre all just so insufferable. I dont understand how Amren, ancient eldritch being trapped in a fae body that she is, can stand to be around them, I wouldve left them 5 centuries ago if I was her. I guess the explanation is that she finds the government position interesting but its like, youre SECOND to the most boring and annoying man on the planet only kinda ruling over a court that you dont even actually care about from everything Ive heard. Again, if I was in Amren's position I would not be hanging out in an APARTMENT in a boring ass city at the behest of a quartett of stupid bozos, I wouldve weaseled my way into being the personal advisor of Beron or some shit so I could watch the Vanserra Family Drama unfold live

There was one good thing about this discomforting dinner though, and that was how inexplicably gay Cassian was for Rhysand. He was really out there, looking at him with such love, calling him pretty twice in like two minutes being all "I knew I wanted a piece of him the moment I first saw him, the high lord's pretty son" like okay. I know what you are

[nyanspirals]

i HATE how shipwars in hetalia have basically come back except now ppl say that its bc the other ships are pseudo-incest or somehow toxic like omg just say you hate the ship like those new hetalia fans coming in saying USUK is bad and FrUk is better i wish we could go back to the days when reasonable ppl either didnt care or shipped FrUkUs or even just plain old incest ships 💔 i NEED my GerPru, SpaPort, Itacest, CanAme and England x his brothers and like most ppl who ship usuk barely focus on the pseudo-incest that is 😒😒 its so tame compared to other ships

the only kind of person in this fandom i find more insufferable than antis themselves are fruk and (especially) usuk shippers who INSIST that those ships being toxic/incest is "up to interpretation" and then try to make them Healthy and Cute and Wholesome instead. fruk kill each other for fun and arthur raised alfred like a mother and if you call yourself a shipper but refuse to accept these very basic canon facts about said ships then you a. are boring as fuck and b. do not understand these characters and relationships at all. just btw