#anti yana

[cielphantomhive321]

The end is near.

[princessbutler1316]

So who remembers the side story that came in BoM?

The one Sebastian is a fucking hot ice king and Yana was on her Frozen obsession era

So, seem any familiar thing?

...like... anything....

[plague-of-insomnia]

I think the worst thing about kuro antis is how much of a disservice they do to Yana.

Acting like she’s a bad storyteller because they don’t like the way she tells her story.

Yana is an incredible storyteller.

She is able to weave together so many threads so there’s always a set up for something and yet she does it in a way that doesn’t distract from the overall story.

Just think about the twin reveal. It was set up as early as the ripper arc I believe and didn’t come out until 100+ chapters later. And yet if you look back you can see all the clues she left.

She carefully chooses how she sets up panels and which POV she uses. She picks her kanji so carefully, often they can be read 3-4 different ways!

To say she’s a bad writer or that she just “accidentally” does things for “fan service” is a slap in the face to the hard work and careful craftsmenship she puts into her work.

If you think she’s such a bad mangaka, if you find her “sexualizing” of characters so repulsive, then why are you in the kuro fandom? Why are you still reading the manga?

I’ve come across plenty of media where I liked the concept but hated the execution. And you know what I did? I stopped reading/watching and moved on. It’s that simple.

[kheyys-worms]

Fuck it. I don't have enough brain juice to make art today so have a repost of this old mallerollo doodle instead--

[getonite]

y'all this fucking episodeeee.

#1.

ahhh, my man looking drop dead gorg as usual. i need him in me STAT. he was lookin' especially pretty today, idk what it was, but omgggg SLOBBERING ON IT

#2.

if i was ciel, i would not be able to handle his sarcastic ass. id punch him in the mouth 😭

#3. soma was cute in his episodeee, his little appearances made me smile, im sad ciel didn't pay attention to him 😭

#4.

the prefects and their (fags) drudges are so fucking silly. especially herman. he was so cute this episode. i love the prefects so much omg. ciel through this meeting?? lmao, he was cute this episode too. as far as redmond "have you two done anything yet?" in his slutty ass voice. NO. HIM AND ELIZABETH ARE 13 ( him and sebastian's va's were PURRING in the mics today )

( gregory was kinda scary tho.. )

#5.

this will still me funny to me. especially sebastian's voice when he fell lol

and finally.

THEM AND THEIR EVILNESS IS BACK!!! LOOK AT THEM OMG. what i find funny though, is ciel's parents dying in a fire and then he causes one, i- i cant with him 💀

this is now officially tagged "( black butler biz. )" bc i talk way too much about this show every week.

[astrstqr]

﹒　𓇼 ⠀⠀ yana’s dr ﹒　𓇼 ⠀⠀ admin ﹒　𓇼 ⠀⠀ carrd

౨ৎ : anti shifters dni

[hey-haven]

I’m gonna say this now that I finished the Masquerade event: I do not get the hype Rollo had when the event first came out in the JP Servers. Like he’s alright, nothing really outstanding tbh.

I mean I personally don’t like him cause he’s taken from a character who’s whole thing is he’s racist and a creep, and I don’t think it was a good idea to base a character off of something genuinely serious, a kind of horror we face in our society, and then turn him into a bland as fuck anime boy.

It’s like if you tried to twist Ratcliffe from fucking Pocahontas. Literally the most tone deaf idea to make the literal colonist into an anime boy that teen girls will no doubt fawn over. Frollo is on a similar boat, just add a perverted creep on top of it.

And like the most common argument I heard is “well they’re not the same person as the character they’re twisted from” and you’re right, but the connection they have to their original counterpart is very very VERY important to their characters from aesthetics to personality traits to backstory to the arcs they have in each book/event!!!! You literally can not seperate the Twisted version from the OG because the whole fucking gimmick is literally Disney Villains but make them emotionally damaged anime boys!!!!

It’s why Rollo got the amount of backlash that he did because the fucking awful creep that he’s twisted from is a literal racist who targeted a marginalized group of people and made them out to be monsters for no fucking reason other than because “god said so”. Literally such a fucking tone deaf decision!

But like yeah, the character himself is nothing to write home about. Like I literally couldn’t give a shit about him. They did the story better with Idia/hj

[seekers-who-are-lovers]

Sebastian Michaelis: Hold it right there! (Shouting at the boys upon seeing they were tossing his young Master up in the air) (Volume 17)

See these panels above? Perusing Twitter, which is a bad idea as it is infested with stan following, one account highlighted the third panel as a favourite. The poster admonished that it should not be taken as Sebaciel by the way. Therefore, they, in the end, made a series of posts pinned why Yana Toboso is mot intending to go that route.

I would say I miss the days when Kuroshitsuji readers/viewers tried to make an intelligible essay/academically critiquing the manga/anime instead of outrightly cancelling Yana Toboso and applying the death of the author while she’s still alive and creating more, but I was not a part of that fandom in the early 2010s.

“Whereas the main characters’ relationship is not explicitly sexual, it is suggestively so, with the narrative providing numerous ‘eroticizable’ scenarios between Sebastian and Ciel (bath scenes, dressing scenes, cross-dressing scenes, rescues, dancing lessons, etc.). Kuroshitsuji, therefore, can be understood in the context of boys’ love manga—that is, manga that focuses on male-male romantic and erotic relationships.

“The paradox is what makes the scene work affectively. The reader needs to value the child’s innocence and to want the demon to be the champion who protects that innocence, yet we are no time allowed to forget that those are not the terms of their relationship.

“… yet, again, much of the appeal to the reader is presented in the demon’s loyal, solicitous protection of his helpless charge. Just as the wordplay of text layers ‘dog’ with ‘humble servant’ and ‘knight’ in describing the demon’s relationship to the child, so the narrative consistently demands that we acknowledge our contradictory affective investments.” ( x )

(Volume 1)

Instead I am relegated to readers of today—both under the age of 18 or who have read it when they were 14 or younger and now scandalised that they still like Kuroshitsuji—complaining how “problematic” Kuroshitsuji is because of its dark themes. Condemning Yana Toboso, accusing her of pedophilia, homophobia, and racism. Whereas shipping the main fictional characters has become political. When in the first place, 14-year-olds aren’t supposed to read nor watch it.

Every time I read a fandom discourse re a piece of media or fan creation that is deemed “problematic,” I just remember Salman Rushdie’s words:

I can walk into a bookshop and point out a number of books that I find very unattractive in what they say. But it doesn't occur to me to burn the bookshop down. If you don't like a book, read another book. If you start reading a book and you decide you don't like it, nobody is telling you to finish it.

Antis must keep his words in mind because It applies to both the media and fan creations as well. Don’t like, don’t read.

There’s a fine line between religious fundamentalism/political ideology that destroys people. A fanatic attempted to kill Rushdie for decades. And recently, one of them almost succeeded. Antis that preach moral high ground recommend fan fic writers, artists and their followers to kill themselves are hypocritical and nonsensical to be honest.

[cokicito]

Intro ig

I made a side blog to post about Kuro and interact with the fandom since I just started reading the manga~

I've seen s1 and s2 of the anime and a few eps of the new season, but not much else so no spoilers please <3

I am proship. If anything in my blog digusts/upsets you enough to get a reaction out of you, please block me, I am not here to argue or teach you about media literacy. Talk shit behind my back if you want, but I want nothing to do with you.

Minors, antis, maps, zoos, please dni

Everyone else, feel free to interact!!

[vergencescatter]

Marda and Kevmo: anti-Juliet to Romeo

To continue the thought: if we see Marda as a deeply tragic figure (as emphasised in my last post), I think it becomes natural to see her as the anti-Juliet to the Romeo of Kevmo.

Marda's need to prove herself to everyone around her, to be strong for the Littles (coming from her drive to care for others), and to prove her worth to the Mother, means she cannot allow her conviction to waver. She genuinely loves the people of the Path, because since a young age many of them have been like family. There are also many aspects of the Path as a missionary order, such as believing they should provide for each other as the Force would provide for them in return, that I think attracts and speaks to Marda's better nature. These sorts of principles - like the notion of "gifts freely given" and the belief to always open an extended hand to others - reinforce Marda's resolve that the Path represents fundamental good in the galaxy (a lot of these principles precede the Mother's ascension to power, by the way).

Of course, so much of this becomes saturated by the Path as a cult, and thus by violent ideology. If it is Marda's innocence and endearing nature that drives her blind love for the people of the Path; at the same time, it is Marda's naivety in believing that the Mother has these ideals at heart that translates into her blind ideological devotion, with the Mother seen by members of the Path as a prophet sent by the Force.

That said, her affection for Jedi Padawan Kevmo Zink almost saves her from her eventual fall into the purely ideological component of the cult. Zink has a way of connecting with Marda through their mutual care for others and their mutual respective for the Force. They are able to discuss the Force and debate their respective interpretations in a manner where they can question each other respectively. Through their engagements there is no hint of violence in Marda's view, with Zink able to extract and focus the good of Marda's deeper nature. In fact, through her relationship with Kevmo we see Marda begin to think that maybe, along with Yana, they could leave Dalna and work as missionaries. In their most intimate moments, one can see Marda opening up (however tentatively) to a different view of the world (while at the same time carrying forward the good principles she sees in the Path); she even begins to imagine being with Kevmo on Jedah. At no point here does she accept the way in which the Jedi use the force; but she at least begins to contemplate and reflect more openly about the world. Kevmo also seems to take a lot from Marda, particularly her altruistic views of the Force.

As the book unfolds, we see the bond between Marda and Kevmo grow stronger. They begin to develop intimate feelings for one another. Toward the final chapters, it appears as though the ideological grip on Marda is beginning to loosen and her many endearing qualities will be redeemed. I mean, one would be forgiven to think that there is hope for her - that she might actually leave Dalna and find a new direction (or extract a peaceful missionary element from the Path and become a speaker for basic values of care and compassion). Indeed, with Yana exposing the Mother and telling Marda that what the Path has become is wrong, there is a moment where it seems they are about to leave the cult and runaway to Jedha (with Zink and his Master). Marda had even prepared to leave by saying goodbye to the Kessarine family to which she had grown close.

I think this is why, in the final pages, her actions and her decisions are so infuriating. When Kevmo is tragically killed alongside Jedi Master Zallah Macri - they are the first Jedi to encounter the Leveler in the High Republic era - I was left somewhat shocked by Marda's decisions. Upon learning of Kevmo's fate, she is clearly upset - and with Yana recently disclosing uneasy truths about the Mother - I thought this was Marda's moment to finally break free. I thought together they might even try to kill the Mother, and perhaps even rescue their ideal view of the Path. Instead, the death of Kevmo - truly her lost love - is framed by the Mother as though the Jedi's use of the Force was at fault, and that the Leveler is simply an agent of the Force ("the Force must be free"). Pressing on the fresh wounds in Marda's heart, the Mother seems to finally twist Marda into something more extreme - something violent. And it is out of our naivety that Marda believes the Mother, perceiving the loss of her love as a result of Kevmo being a Jedi. So, the Jedi are to blame. Hence, her burning hatred for the Jedi begins (and for all those who abuse the Force). And just like that, the tragedy of Marda Ro is sealed.

Marda is thus the anti-Juliet to the Romeo of Kevmo. Her tragedy becomes rooted in how she cannot recognise her betrayal of Kevmo. Instead, Kevmo's death fuels a blind sense of hatred, going against her better nature and also what brough her and Kevmo together in the first place.

[gearbox-doll]

Saying if you have a crush on Ciel or like sebaciel you're a pedo is literally like calling Yana a pedo for drawing them like that but we don't see antis doing THAT do we

[heartshapedcreaturefromcriptoon]

Antis monopolizing "problematic show/fandom space deep dive" videos on youtube for normies, acting like they're also normies about to explain you a thing, will talk about how civil/level headed "nuanced", and "neutral" they are towards shipping culture, and talk about "anti" culture in air quotes implying antis don't even exist at all(because they're trying to just hide the fact they are one and are being completely condescending and biased) but then they'll go on to give an "example" of shipping culture that's like an official tweet or piece of artwork made by the creator or something, but they'll put like, some audio from like a jokey spongebob meme over it or whatever just to indicate how disgusted they to even have to show you this and how you should be too... And then they'll be like "Again I don't care and have absolutely no problem with people who ship this ship/interoperate this story this way... Just MAYBE keep it to yourself, don't tell me, and don't interact in the comment section of my video I at least partially made about shipping, talking about how unbiased, uncaring, and "neutral" towards the fact that you ship this at all because woah, we're like, trying to Be Civil and not rock the boat here! UWU"

And then you'll look at their pinned comment in the comment section and It'll be like "PLEASE FOR THE LOVE GOD BE CIVIL Y'ALL! UWU"

Oh, Sweetie? Who needs to Be Civil here? The people that already agree with all your takes, don't actually ship the thing, and look down on the people who do while you 'heart' all their comments but you'll delete mine in a heartbeat if I tried?

And then everyone in their comment section will be like: What a civil, leveled headed, nuanced take that nobody who actually likes the thing in the way you don't will ever be allowed to share they're thoughts on or interact with even though they're already big part of the fandom what had to be discussed to make the video, good job girl! :D

And the video itself is like, two hours long...

And it's being made by vivziepop fans who already "ironically" hate themselves for "enjoying" vivziepop... Just like how they "ironically" hate themselves for enjoying Yana Toboso...

Because who else but some filthy, self loathing vivziepop fantis would stand there with an oversized mic with some vivziepop stickers on it to make hours long "Deep Dives" into The Problématique World of Yana Toboso?

... I think phrases like "they hate all of us" can and should be lightly applied to some queer fandumb spaces as well, actually...It's all fictional depictions of BDSM that give you Scene Ideas irl like if you're Nasty Enough, it wouldn't hurt anyone....lol.

MINORS DNI, OF COURSE!

[getonite]

no one has ever gaslighted me better than those s*baciel shippers in 2019. cuz wdym the mangaka didn't say it was canon? wdym that (non)canon clip at the end of the season wasn't real? that sebastian didn't want a kiss before he ate ciel?? like wdym?? like, now im dropping ts tf??

top search on google and all 😭

[sebastianthecrab04]

Black butler is coming back. I’m fuming 😭

[lacryem]

— A surprisingly long and in depth look about symbolism in the recent G-Fantasy cover by Yana Toboso ✦

Including references, flower language, how to decode the meaning of flowers, and a little too much brainrot. As well my personal interpretation drawn from all the sources I looked at. And of course what all of means (and maybe hints at?) for Sebastian and Ciel… and maybe even Sebaciel? 

Originally posted as a twitter thread, but threads suck and I forgot a couple things. so here now.

Disclaimer :

I don’t know FOR SURE that all these things were directly referenced by Yana when creating this art. But being a fan of her work for over a decade I've become familiar with her use of symbolism and reference, and believe myself to have a good eye for it at this point!   I'm also pretty familiar with the use of flower language, including different languages, due to having been involved in a project about it and having to read wayyy too much about this. 

Some of it also includes my own personal interpretation, but the meanings and info I based myself off of ARE factual. I think I made it pretty clear when referencing my personal interpretation. You're welcome to reach your own interpretation based off of the stuff provided!

And lastly, I'm not a sebaciel shipper. I'm not an anti (the complete opposite, actually) and have nothing against the ship, I like the narrative around them and how they're written but I don’t actively ship them romantically or sexually. So I'd say this is actually a pretty unbiased interpretation. Personal taste is one thing, but I don’t deny the author's intention and whats written in front of me! That is what this post is about.

Kuroshitsuji takes place in the Victorian period (1837~1901) in 1889.

The following are both important Victorian books on the language of flowers that I will be basing myself off of.

Language of Flowers by Greenaway Kate (1884), and The Language of flowers: An Alphabet of Floral Emblems (1857).

(Also, I’m treating Ciel’s rose as a deep red rose. Which is a bit different than red roses. But I am adding some relevant information about roses in general, anyway.

Now, on what they say about these flowers.

Deep rose, meaning "bashful shame". White lily, meaning "Purity and sweetness."

— The White Lily

Most people assume that the lily refers to Ciel's purity, and that’s a fair assumption. But I disagree. 

Firstly, the one holding the lily is Sebastian. Holding it on his right hand, tilted towards the right. However what's relevant here is the VIEWER. From the viewer's POV he's holding it to the left. Note he also holds the scissors on his left hand, where he bears HIS contract seal.

How you hold a flower, what position you give it to someone in, changes the meaning of the flower. These context clues are very important. It tells us that 'purity and sweetness' doesn’t refer to Ciel, but actually refers to Sebastian (…sorta).

This may be a little confusing. Purity and sweetness, Sebastian?! I know, I know. bear with me.

These books provide poems to help us understand how you may interpret the intended meaning. The lily poem is about enduring trials out of love because of the purity and sweetness he sees in his lover's eyes and soul. I believe Yana directly references the poems I will include in this post in her new artwork.

— My Interpretation

the meaning of Sebastian's lily is:

"I do all out of love for the sweetness and purity within you."

Him holding it to the contact seal and cutting the flower could stand for him destroying this sentiment (affection within himself) that has arisen in him as a result of their contract by destroying the sweetness and purity—the source of it—within Ciel (consuming his soul).

Note: This is debatable, as 'reversed' almost always means upside down. But if you consider the lily facing away from the viewer as reversed then it could mean "impurity and bitterness" which fits pretty well with Ciel, and it being held against the contract seal which is a physical representation of his impurity, brought on by his bitterness.

— The Deep Red Rose

There something I find very interesting. The rose is in a teacup, standing in for tea (I think there's even tea alongside it in the cup.) From Yana herself we know that Sebastian's eyes are a reference to the reddish brown colour of tea.

Like I said, I believe this rose to be a deep red rose, which is a bit more specific than the meaning given to red roses. However I think the poem included for roses in general very much applies here.

I was going to add my thoughts but I found this interpretation that sums it up pretty well if you replace the carpe diem theme with a more "running out of time" or "impending death" theme, which seems to be a more accurate reading for this artwork.

Looking at the rose itself, it has no thorns or leaves.

It is not a youthful rose as its already fully open and losing petals. "No hope, and no fear" fits with the poem, the rose is basically an hourglass referring to Ciel. His fate is unavoidable, but this isn't a deterrent. He's dancing on the ledge.

The deep red rose means 'bashful shame'.

When you compare it to the lily, which is a direct proclamation, the deep red rose is a quiet confession one cannot verbalize.

Debatable, to be fair but given the tie in to Sebastian's eye colour and the fact that he is always the one pouring tea for Ciel, I believe the Sebastian to be the speaker here too, but this time speaking on Ciel's feelings (Hence why he's the one holding it) rather than Sebastian's own. 

— My Interpretation

The meaning of the deep red rose Ciel holds, speaking about Ciel's feelings of guardedness, and in response saying:

"Abandon your bashful shame, and let yourself be admired without expectations (hope) or fear"

Sebastian speaks about Ciel's feelings, the deep red rose acknowledges his feelings but they remain unspoken.

The Waller poem is a plead for his beloved to seize the day, for time is short, and allow herself to be loved completely. 

Her beauty is one to be appreciated, she is not meant to be a rose unacknowledged (unloved) in the desert.

Regarding 'expectations', I think this is more about rigid ideas of how 'appreciation' or 'admiration, might be shown or received. Sebastian and Ciel's relationship defies normality or 'expectations'. So this, too, would defy expectations a young boy like Ciel, or a traumatised boy like Ciel, may have.

From Yana herself, we know Sebastian's dedication and how highly he holds 'beauty', specifically Ciel's beauty.

The author of the poem proclaims that beauty not appreciated is not beautiful indeeed, and so he calls his beloved to come to him and be appreciated wholly during the invaluable, limited time they have.

We see the deep red rose's petals fall away, in my opinion not only symbolising the withering away of time, but also the crumbling away of this "bashful shame" that Sebastian ascribes to Ciel.

How Sebastian wishes to "appreciate" this beauty is debatable. How he wants to "admire" and "desire" (per the poem) Ciel is rather open ended. Wether it be in a romantic way, a sexual way or by consuming his soul.

However, I don’t think these are mutually exclusive. And consuming Ciel can easily be a metaphor for the former two. 

— The Lily and The Rose

The Greeneaway book has this poem which im sure was directly referenced. This poem speaks about the lily and the rose in a direct power struggle and fight for dominance, until they eventually unite and reign as one.

Now when speaking about this "union", you could say it refers to their contract, but I don’t think so.

The contract ties them to each other, but it doesn’t necessarily unite them. So I believe 'unity' to be about the appreciation Sebastian speaks of Ciel opening up to. 

"The Lily" and "The Rose" might be interpreted as directly representing Sebastian and Ciel, and the unity that would come from them joining and becoming a truly complimentary pair. I think a power struggle and fight for being the one in control is very accurate way to describe their current dynamic in canon.

It may also be interpreted as "The Lily" and "The Rose" as being representations of their feelings and ideals previously. And then it would represent these two conflicting expressions—a loud  unrelenting and destructive devotion, and a guarded, bashful, unspoken reluctance— coming together and turning from conflicting to complimentary. 

Or as it tends to be with these things, both!

Either way all of this is expressed under the sense of impending doom created by their circumstances and the contract. So there's a sense of urgency permeating all of it.

Also clear to me is a sense of internal conflictedness coming from Sebastian's message that is usually only hinted at like this, and some people end up overlooking.

Sebastian desires Ciel deeply, but having him would also mean not being able to have him anymore.

Sebastian is torn and that’s why he attempts to cut the root of his wavering feelings represented by the lily. 

All of this makes me wonder about what's next, and if we will see these things said more blatantly. Foreshadowing with flower language and references like this, isn't exactly rare for Yana. I wonder if we will see this 'unity' come to be, and what necessary development Sebastian and Ciel will need to undergo to make it possible. As well as what shape it will take.

I also wonder very much about Ciel's perspective in all of this, as this was almost entirely from Sebastian's POV, but I think that's intentional. Ciel has his own goals and a lot on his mind. Sebastian's goal IS Ciel. So I assume he spends a lot more time thinking about Ciel and this kind of thing.

Thank you if you read the whole way through. Like I said before, even though the sources defending it are, my interpretation is not law and you're welcome to reach your own with the things presented.

Links for sources, including free public domain PDFs of the books mentioned are found at the end of my twitter thread.

— Thanks for reading! —

[sebbystruewife]

I need to put this out of my mind now because the “Sebaciel” debate is starting up again. It's really outrageous to say: Yana doesn't know what she's doing. Yana is naive and draws pictures that show “Sebaciel”. Yana doesn’t want to support “Sebaciel”. Yana destroys Kuro with her drawings... etc. You can think whatever you want about the "Sebaciel" drawings/topics...

Nevertheless: Yana is a grown woman! Who has been drawing Kuro for almost 20 years. She knows exactly what she's doing, don't you think? Sebaciel exists because of her drawings and why? ...Because she did it back then...and she still does it because that's how she wants to portray these two! She doesn't care about the "antis"... She likes it that way and that's just the way it is. It is her written story, her drawings and it is also her business if she “sexualizes” the two in the story with an “undertone”. It's also up to her how she portrays them... and it's also up to her whether or not she wants to let that emotional development progress in the manga. Whether she makes a couple with them or not.... We all don't know what's going on in her head. No matter how it happens. kuro is a masterpiece and should be seen as such! Thanks Yana!

So finally stop the debate. Dont like it, dont read it ....