#batman 441

[maniacwatchestheworld]

I just think that it's interesting how in this story- the first ever appearance of Tim Drake that it's pretty clear that he has PTSD or something similar from seeing the death of Dick Grayson's parents. I don't know what else to say about it, but I am curious if any future stories actually address that fact about him. At least he made good use of his trauma and became a pretty decent detective because of it...?

[inspisart]

I’m surprised he didn’t start licking the furniture

[batbaffle]

sources under the cut since there's actually a lot on jason's age:

tim says he's 13 in a lonely place of dying (his intro), so that's straightforward.

now for jason, his age wasn't technically stated in any panels, but they established that he was 12 in the q&a section

this is further supported by character bios saying jason was 9 when he met batman, and the story with his intro was said to take place 3 years in the past (so 9 + 3 = 12).

if you'd prefer some evidence from within the story itself, jason says he's in 7th grade (7th graders are typically 12-13)

aaaaaand if you do the math on this imaginary gravestone, he's 12 (1974 - 1986).

i'm just gonna assume that jason would've also turned 13 by a lonely place of dying if he were alive, since i don't see any reason to think tim was meant to be older than jason. several months passed between jason's death and tim's intro after all.

[spoilerjpeg]

"demanded to be robin" okay girl

[cleromancy]

tim drake 🤝 inspector javert

[vechter]

nightwing (1996) #102 // south of the border, west of the sun, haruki murakami // action comics (1938) #613 // the teacher, marie howe // secret origins (1986) #13 // doggy style, maisie cowell // secret origins (1986) #13 // thumbs, lucy dacus // nightwing (1996) #102 // batman: dark victory (1999) #13 // the wee free men, terry pratchett // action comics (1938) #613 // superman/batman (2003) #13 // batman (1940) #636 // batman (1940) #441 // a dog jumping over a wall, feng li // things i never give myself permission to say, chelsea dingman // batman (1940) #408 // batman (1940) #438 // east, west, salman rushdie // batman (1940) #416 // infinite crisis (2005) #4 // ask polly: help, i'm the loneliest person in the world!

dick & bruce + leaving robin

[madame-fear]

Feel free to not write this my love. I know you don’t think you can write for her but I’m here anyway.

Can I have a Alicent hightower smut request. Maybe she is helping the reader de stress (I really need it right now my brain is in peaces) but with some breast play of her doing it to the reader? And some praise ? Honestly it doesn’t have to be here, could be some random person I just need this.

(I’m going to jump off a roof) (stressed Batman)

꒰ 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐐𝐔𝐄𝐄𝐍’𝐒 𝐃𝐄𝐋𝐈𝐆𝐇𝐓 | 𝐃𝐑𝐀𝐁𝐁𝐋𝐄. ꒱

ೀ amira speaks! : my darling wife Ash! 🥺 I truly hope you feel better now, my love. This is my first time writing for Alicent + breast play, so I hope you like it, and it makes you feel better! All I can do for my Batwife, I will. 💕 ˗ˏˋ ꒰ summary : request above. ♡ ˗ˏˋ ꒰ word count : 441.

˗ˏˋ ꒰ genre : smut, drabble, WLW. ˗ˏˋ ꒰ pairing : Alicent Hightower x (fem!)Reader

→ click here if you want to request a drabble for my followers milestone celebration! drabbles open from February 14th, to February 19th.

“My Queen,”

The sound of soft pleas and hushed moans echoed through your private chambers. Your eyes were closed shut, with your head thrown back as your lips were partly open, allowing all type of sounds to escape deep from your throat. As you sat on the edge of your bed, your nails dug deeply into the silk sheets beneath you.

A proud smile grew at the corner of the Green Queen’s rosy lips. Her lips delicately placed kissed on your areola, occasionally nibbling on your flesh as her other hand gropped your free breast; her thumb stimulating your needy nipple by caressing it gently, yet firmly. “My sweet love,” she whispered against your overstimulated skin. Alicent had found her way to remove the stress accumulated on you. You were too precious for her, she couldn’t tolerate the thought of you carrying any type of burden — and any way she could think of pleasing you, she would use it.

Needily, your hand went to the back of her head; your fingers intertwining between strands of her brunette curls, feeling your cunt become increasingly wet as her lips greedily took your nipple, feeling her tongue suckle on it as she moaned against you. Her hand clawed on your breast, massaging your hardened nipple. For a moment, she pulled out from sucking on your tit, but her glossy lips grasped against your flesh as her stare moved up to your features, which was drowned in pleasure. A gasp escaped from you, abruptly feeling her mouth leave your breast for a moment.

“You’re so incredibly beautiful, my love.” your gaze moved downwards at her, weakly begging for her attention, as the Queen proved slightly upwards your neck to press a loving, delicate smooch against it. Her lips lingered on your skin for a few long seconds before she pulled apart, fixing her coffee eyes on yours. A rosy hue formed on your cheeks as you panted continuously from the stimulation.

“You are such a good, pretty girl. You’re my good girl.” she praised, pressing one last kiss on your chin, before lowering back to your breasts. Her mouth ravenously took your other stimulated breast, the one she had used her thumb to caress it, needily feeding and sucking from it — using her tongue to stroke your hardened nipple. A loud growl escaped from you, as you instinctively moved your body forward to give her more access.

“My poor sweet girl, so stressed.” she cooed, in between ragged breaths, as her fingernails scraped against the skin of your other breast. “But I will take good care of you. You’re mine now, all mine.”

[silverwhittlingknife]

Dick Grayson & Tim Drake: Reading Guide

Once upon a time, two kids met at a circus... and the rest is history.

table of contents:

who are these losers?

what's fun about them?

why a reading guide?

how does the reading guide work? (tl;dr: there are quick recs, a selected chronological list, and a complete chronological list)

where is the spreadsheet? (x)

who are they?

Dick Grayson and Tim Drake: the first Robin and the third Robin.

Also known as the circus boy and the earnest computer geek, the hotshot and the pretender, the slighted prince and the new apprentice, the acolyte and the hanger-on, Nightwing and Robin, Batman and Robin, Batman and Red Robin, and Marcia and Cindy (BftC 3, N 110 & 119, B 617, DC 677, Detention Comics 1, R 168, RR 14).

Or as Jason calls them, "You idiots" (TT 47).

More seriously, Dick Grayson is one of the most enduring comic characters ever - he's been around since Detective Comics 38 in 1940! He's Batman's first ward, first partner, and eldest son. When Dick's parents are murdered, Bruce identifies with him, comforts him, and takes him into his home, where Dick ultimately volunteers to join his crimefighting mission. By candlelight, the Dynamic Duo swear an oath: That we two will fight together against crime and corruption and never swerve from the path of righteousness!

Tim Drake was created in Batman 436 and formally introduced in Lonely Place of Dying. He's a lonely kid who imprints on Dick when they meet as children, and Dick hugs him and promises to do a quadruple somersault for him; he's horrified and worried about Dick in the aftermath of the Graysons' murder, which he witnesses. He watches Batman comfort Dick, deduces Robin's secret identity, and becomes a secret devotee of the Dynamic Duo. Though he admires them both, it's ultimately Dick who he idolizes and tries to emulate when Bruce is spiraling: Batman needs a Robin. No matter what he thinks he wants.

Their slow-burn strangers-to-friends-to-brothers-to-antagonists-to-brothers-again arc develops from 1989 to 2011, and it's one of the standout examples of the DC Post-Crisis era's commitment to gradual character development and careful continuity.

what's fun about them?

SO MUCH!!! But one of my favorite things is their friendship has RANGE!! They go from sweet kids to tense strangers to loyal friends to brothers over the course of real-life years and tons of comics. They fight, they tease each other, they get protective, they worry, they chase each other down, they walk away... there's just so much story here.

They meet at the circus as children, when both their parents are still alive. They meet again, years later, when Bruce is reeling from Jason's death and they team up to stop him from hurting anyone. In the early days, they're brothers-in-arms and never quite family - instead, Dick is Bruce's loyal-but-estranged eldest son, and Tim is Bruce's new loyal-but-wary apprentice, with his own family and his own semi-estranged dad. The slow process of evolving toward found-family is a delight to watch.

They work together as Nightwing and Robin over four years of in-universe time and for over twenty years of real-time, gradually forging a fierce bond of friendship and, ultimately, brotherhood.

Then Bruce dies, and they have some huge fights.

But even when they're estranged, even when they're not speaking... they never stop loving and trying to protect each other. No matter what.

why a reading guide?

Quotes from New Titans 60 and Batman 441 (1989), Nightwing 25 (1998), Nightwing 69 (2002), Red Robin 1 (2009), Red Robin 12 (2010), Gates of Gotham 3 and Detective Comics 874 (2011)

I think reading guides are cool!! And somebody asked me about one!

More generally, I think reading guides are always helpful, but especially with Dick & Tim... you know, when I first started out trying to read their comics, I got kinda overwhelmed. Because on the one hand there's SO MUCH CONTENT - they're one of the classic enduring friendships in all of post-Crisis! their relationship is a HUGE BIG DEAL! they're constantly calling each other and hanging out and supporting each other and arguing!

But at the same time, all of that content is scattered across lots of different books, in Robin and Nightwing and Detective Comics and Batman and New Titans and Titans and Young Justice and Teen Titans and Shadow of the Bat and Gotham Knights and Birds of Prey and Showcase and DC Holiday Specials and so on and so forth. There's not One Definitive Place where you can read The Dick-and-Tim Story.

So: a reading guide!

how does the reading guide work?

Dick and Tim are in over 400 comics together and over 800 comics each separately. That's a whole lot of comics! So I've made a spreadsheet with three different reading guides, depending on how interested you are in these two:

1-5 Quick Recs: If you just want to check out a couple comics, check out these quick recs for "if you like fluff," "if you like angst," etc.

200 Starter Comics: If you want to do a comprehensive, chronological Dick-and-Tim read without committing to all the comics, this list has some of their major team-ups plus some solo comics so you know what the heck is going on. Most of them have a "sneak peek" you can use to decide if you want to read it.

Big List: A complete list of all the comics Dick and Tim are in, in chronological order, with links to dc.fandom and to DC Universe Infinite. It has filter views.

This spreadsheet was a labor of love, obsession, and SO MUCH PROCRASTINATING doing other things. I update it sometimes.

where is the spreadsheet?

it's here. have fun <3

[maniacwatchestheworld]

Batman and Two-Face being very not straight for one another in "A Lonely Place of Dying": A Collection.

These two are fuckin' disasters for each other in this story, let me tell you! Constantly trying to get in each others' heads. Constantly complimenting the other's intelligence. The two of them longingly looking out into the night, eagerly waiting for the other to arrive. These two dumbasses should just kiss already, I swear!

[scintillyyy]

anyways, i'm not going to say tim is a paragon of sensitivity or anything, because he's not, but i do think the graysons' death is an area where he does actively try to at least be somewhat delicate and sensitive about discussing it.

batman #441

like he very much actively does not want to have to tell dick how he knows, and he's very apologetic that bringing it up is hurtful to dick.

secret origins 80 page giant

like honestly. this is actually a very neutral way of telling the story. very bare bones. "it was the best day of my life. then your parents died." which. is objectively true?? and tim is still very apologetic, especially when he realizes how he might be coming across. like. idk. obviously dick is the center of this tragedy, but it is fundamentally like. a super, super terrible and traumatizing thing for a child of indeterminate age (anywhere from 2-7) to witness a death, not just in general, but at a happy place like a circus. hell. it was fundamentally terrible for the adults at the circus to witness this death, bruce and jack and janet and every single person in that audience included. and while it's a little cringey that tim is narrating the worst day to dick's life to dick, this conversation only even came up because dick brought it up to begin with.

and at this point dick and tim have known each other for almost a decade in real time and have been explicitly written as brothers for probably about 4 years real time, so dick probably genuinely doesn't mind talking about this with tim. i do like the idea of how this probably progresses for dick over time. like, at first, dick is probably super, super annoyed at this thirteen year old kid who wormed his way into dick's personal tragedy but then as dick gets to know him and love him and that's his little brother now-

like how much it must crush dick (now that he knows and loves tim) that tim had to experience the same horrible thing that happened to dick and that dick's parent's death happening is what ended up bringing the two of them back together again eventually.

[batbaffle]

My boi, the first robin

lol yeah

man that reminds me how marv wolfman gave a bunch of conflicting info in early post-crisis for the age dick was when he became robin. basically jim starlin and a few other writers established a bunch of consistent timeline stuff, but then marv wolfman contradicted it.

shit lemme check the specifics on that.

according to starlin, dick was robin for 6 years, and he stopped working with bruce when he was 19 (batman #416). jason was 9 at that point btw (confirmed in q&a section, consistent with several panels).

according to wolfman, dick was robin for....almost 12 years (new teen titans #55). big difference there buddy! that number could actually work with an itty bitty 8 year old robin. however, starlin said bruce had been batman for under 10 years around that same time (batman: the cult). lmao

then after jason's death wolfman said that only 10 years had passed since the death of dick's parents (batman year 3). this number is a bit less insane, but it still conflicts with the claim that bruce had supposedly been batman for over 2 years at the time.

wolfman implied that dick became robin when he was 13 (lonely place of dying), and that makes sense with the numbers starlin gave in batman #416. dick started at 13, was robin for 6 years, left when he was 19. it checks out. plus if you add up dick's 6 years as robin and jason's 3 years spent with bruce, that gives us about 10 years worth of batman. keep in mind that dick had a 6 month training period (lonely place of dying, also matches jason's info).

from there, we can choose to ignore one of two conflicting claims in order to make the timeline coherent: A. bruce had been batman for only 10 years around the time of jason's death --> change it to 12 years B. bruce met dick after he had been batman for over 2 years --> change it to under 1 year

personally i prefer to maintain starlin's info from batman the cult, so bruce would have to have met dick during his 1st year as batman.

ANYWAY TLDR: dick started being robin when he was 13 in early post-crisis canon, but marv wolfman messed up and said he was 8 once

[armed-with-a-waffle-iron]

The Bat Family Timeline and Ages (Post-Crisis and New Earth) with Sources

Evidence

In Batman: Year One, Bruce is said to be 25 in the January he returns to Gotham. The 1976 DC Calendar puts Bruce's birthday on the 19th of February so Bruce is 26 during his first outing as Batman in April.

Marv Wolfman's Batman: Year Three (Batman vol. 1 #436) tells us that Dick Grayson's parents die in Bruce's third year. In Batman vol. 1 #441 (also by Wolfman) Tim says that Robin started appearing around 6 months after the death of the Flying Graysons. For Dick's age when he becomes Robin, see below.

Bruce joins the Justice League before Dick forms the Teen Titans. Both these teams form before Barbara Gordon becomes Batgirl at 16 (Batgirl: Year One).

Barbara and Dick are each other's dates to their high school prom and so are less than 2 years apart in age (Detective Comics vol. 1 #871).

I suspect Dick, who was an emancipated minor, graduated high school and started college a year early, which allows Dick and Barbara to have some time as the new Dynamic Duo, as we see in Batman Family.

Dick Grayson is 18 when he forms the New Teen Titans, all of whom are also teenagers (Nightwing vol. 2 #137 by Wolfman, who also created the New Teen Titans).

Dick Grayson is 19 when he becomes Nightwing (Batman vol. 1 # 416).

21 year-old Helena becomes Huntress (Huntress: Year One #1), and interacts with Batgirl, meaning that Barbara is not yet Oracle.

Jason dies at 15, 4 months before his 16th birthday (Batman Files). This is before the New Teen Titans' third year anniversary (New Titans #71), before any of the Titans turn 22 (Deathstroke vol. 1 Annual 1), 2 years after Dick becomes Nightwing and almost 10 years before Dick's parents are killed (Batman vol. 1 #436). Dick is hence 21 during these events and 11 when he became Robin.

I also kinda like Dick being 17 years younger than Bruce because that's also the age difference between Adam West and Burt Ward from the 60s TV series.

After these events, Tim Drake becomes Robin and is 13-14 (Batman vol. 1 #441 and Robin II #1)

Soon after, Stephanie Brown is 15 when she becomes Spoiler (Secret Origins 80-Page Giant).

Stephanie is still 15 when she realises that she is pregnant (Robin vol. 2 #59) and Tim is almost 15 during this time (Secret Origins 80-Page Giant).

Cassandra Cain is 17 when she comes to Gotham during this time (Batgirl vol. 1 #1), during No Man's Land which lasts one year.

Helena’s family were killed when she was 8 and during Batman/Huntress: Cry For Blood, Tim says the murders happened roughly 15 years ago, making her roughly 23 during this storyline.

Cass turns 18 in January (Batgirl vol. 1 #39), Tim Drake turns 16 (Robin vol. 2 #116), Jason would have turned 18 in August (Detective Comics vol. 1 #790), and Stephanie is 16 when she "dies" (Batman Allies Secret Files & Origin).

Personally I'd re-arrange Tim's 16th birthday to be the last of these events four events to accommodate him still being 17 late into the Batman: Reborn, see below.

Jason soon returns to Gotham as Red Hood, not long before Infinite Crisis, 52 and One Year Later.

Following the one year time skip, Dick says it's been almost 10 years since his misadventures with Metal Eddie and Liu as a 16-17 year old (Nightwing vol. 2 #133 by Wolfman), which makes sense because he would be 25 by my math.

Stephanie returns from her time as a medical volunteer in East Africa, finishes high school and begins university during Batman: Reborn. She'd turn 19 by the end of this year by my math, which is a typical age to be begin attending university (Gotham Underground and Batgirl vol. 3 #1).

Dick calls Damian Wayne a "10 year-old" before Stephanie attends university (Batman and Robin vol. 1 #2) and Steph still calls Damian a "10 year-old" while she's in her second semester (Batgirl vol. 3 #13 and Batgirl vol. 3 #17). He might have turned 11 before the reboot.

Batwoman: Elegy (Detective Comics #858), during the Batman: Reborn year, shows that Kate was 12 when she was kidnapped and saw her mother and sister killed. This incident is also said to happen "20 years ago”, making her 32 and hence 30-31 during her first appearance in 52/One Year Later.

Tim Drake is still 17 while Steph is in her second semester of her first year at university, and it's stated that he is meant to be in his senior year at high school (Batgirl vol. 3 #13, Red Robin #17 and Red Robin #25). It's possible he turns 18 before the reboot.

Mistakes I Made

Cassandra Cain is 21 in Year Eighteen.

The "Titans disbands" in Year Thirteen was definitely a year early but it's done.

[umbrellacam]

Reading A Lonely Place of Dying is so interesting in so many ways, but the question I'm still rotating in my mind is about Dick, and specifically why he ends up smiling and soft-advocating for Tim to be Bruce's Robin, after he had his morality crisis over young heroes with Jason's death.

So when he finds out about Jason's death, Dick feels guilty over giving Jason his Robin costume and not being there when he died:

New Teen Titans #55

To the extent that, later in the same issue, he unilaterally fires 15-year-old Danny Chase from the Titans, over Donna and Kory's objections, citing what happened to Jason. He even expresses doubt over his own young age when he became Robin, wondering whether that was a mistake:

New Teen Titans #55

However, when Dick visits Bruce in Gotham to both express his condolences over Jason's death and also confront him over not telling Dick about it, he explicitly rejects Bruce's implication of blame:

New Teen Titans #55

And later, when the Gargoyle is mentally torturing him over his past failures to the Titans, to Bruce, and Jason, Dick breaks through his self-blame issues and firmly asserts that there was nothing he could have done to prevent Jason's death.

Secret Origins (Vol. 2) #3

But understanding his lack of blame logically isn't the same as being totally past it, as it's part of Dick's larger cycle of guilt, as he acknowledges to his therapist:

The New Titans #57

So how does Dick get from here, still wrestling with guilt and feeling ambivalent about the idea of young heroes as a whole, to the end of A Lonely Place of Dying, where he smiles and basically urges Bruce to give Tim a chance to become Robin?

Like, yes, Dick then spends the entirety of Batman: Year Three worried about Bruce's tenuous mental state after Jason's death, reaching out to him in the midst of Batman's reckless, violent spiral, trying to both express care and to call his mentor and hero back to his foundations of crime-fighting through careful detective work, not through brutality - and getting rejected by Bruce over and over. Even while being proud of Dick's methods and the hero he's grown into, Bruce just can't seem to pull himself out of his own morass of self-destruction. Dick eventually has to leave him to it, though he clearly hasn't stopped worrying about Bruce by the start of ALPoD.

Yes, Tim impresses Dick multiple times over the course of ALPoD. First at the circus with his reflexes and his quick thinking (apparently almost as much as he irritates and baffles Dick with his stubborn evasiveness and pushy presumption, lol this total gremlin). Then at Wayne Manor when Tim goes through his deduction of Batman's and Robin's identities, although this one is more an implication through Dick's decision to show Tim the Cave immediately afterward, and Alfred's words to Tim.

Batman #441

And yet Alfred's sentiment here is immediately contradicted when Tim insistently pushes the Robin costume at Dick, and Dick gets pissed off, saying that, "When Jason died, he took Robin with him. And no matter how much anybody may want it - you can't bring back the dead."

The New Titans #61

How does Dick go from this to accepting Tim as the new potential Robin all of two issues later!! This boy's emotions are so mixed up, lol.

I feel like while Dick is clearly angered by Tim's presumptions, kind of baffled and creeped-out by the sort of parasocial fixation Tim has on both Bruce/Batman and Dick/Robin, below the surface he's also genuinely absorbing Tim's driving love and care for them both. Like, he's way too ticked off to show it or even think of it consciously at the moment - and it's hard to process!! despite that day at Haly's Circus tying them together a decade ago, this kid is a rando, it's out of nowhere, it's wild to be confronted with!! - but on some level he has to be touched by Tim's care and passion for their legacy. He wouldn't make his heel-turn later and smile at Tim so approvingly otherwise.

Like, Dick wants Bruce to have a partner that cares for him that much, that forces him to care for himself in a way that he clearly hasn't been since Jason's death. And Dick is both afraid and aware that he can't fill that role anymore - that he can try to stand beside Batman as Nightwing and support him that way, but he can't stand behind Bruce in his protective shadow again, can't cramp himself back into Robin.

So even as Dick is making line-faces at this bizarre kid pushing himself at them, talking about Jason and Dick and Bruce and what Batman needs like he knows better than Dick, UGH… Dick is also considering… is maybe moved a bit by that star-bright conviction and overflowing love in the face of all the doubts that seem to plague both Bruce and Dick lately… is maybe hoping, seeing a possible light in the dark. Not on a conscious level, perhaps, but it's maybe churning below the surface with everything else Dick is thinking about.

Anyway, Dick still tracks Batman down and tries being a supportive partner as Nightwing, even going "I'm here. Always," when Batman finally brings himself to admit that he needs help. Only to IMMEDIATELY run face-first into Bruce's control issues and post-Jason-disregarding-orders trauma - "You're not with the Titans now. If you want to be with me, you follow my orders. Now do as I say." (The New Titans #61) Oof, instant I'm-NIGHTWING-not-ROBIN friction, but Dick swallows it for now.

Then Two-Face blows up a building on top of both of them, and Tim (and Alfred!) have to rescue them both. By the time that they've been dug out, Alfred and Dick are both praising Tim's potential to a very baffled and alarmed, verging on angry, Batman lol. Dick and Alfred then grin at each other while young Tim struggles against his intimidation and argues the tremendously (and understandably!) reluctant Batman to a standstill.

Batman #442

As they drive away afterward (Bruce, Dick and Tim in the Batmobile to track down Two-Face - using the tracker Tim planted on him, good job Timmy!! - and Alfred toward home in a separate car), we get the following thought-bubbles:

Bruce: Even if he's right, I don't want another partner. Dick: Bruce, for once, think with your heart, not with cold logic. Tim: He doesn't want me, but he hasn't said no. So just do your best… Alfred: …One way or another, the rest will take care of itself.

Batman #442

"Think with your heart, not with cold logic" - so does Dick's line here mean that this is what he himself is doing at this point? Setting aside his logic, his fears and reservations about young heroes, about Jason's death, about putting another young boy in the Robin costume - because Tim joining them, maybe becoming Bruce's new partner, feels right? Because everything that Tim has shown of himself so far means the kid deserves a chance, at least? Because Bruce's caution after Jason's death would mean that he'll make sure to 'do it right this time'? Because Tim's passion and conviction could be what Batman needs, and - maybe as much if not more than that - could be something that deserves to be nurtured into something great, despite Dick's own (and Bruce's) fears?

Because Dick has to be wrestling with and at least quelling (if not fully letting go of) his fears about the risks to young heroes in these issues, it doesn't make sense for him to be okay with Tim as Robin otherwise. And it can't all be about what use Tim could be to Bruce - the leash he could put on Batman's out of control behavior. That's far too selfish and manipulative as a sole motive for Dick Grayson; especially after Jason, he wouldn't encourage a kid to jump into the meat-grinder of vigilantism solely to save Bruce or preserve the legacy of Batman & Robin.

I feel like Dick has to also be seeing something in Tim here, his potential, his determination, the good that he can and wants desperately to do, that Dick has to respect, has to think deserves a shot. When Alfred goes, "The boy should be a politician!" and Dick replies, "He'd do more good with Bruce," (Batman #442; panels above), it does feel like he's thinking of the difference Tim himself could make in the world. Dick has to be remembering why he himself could not be put off from the vigilante life when he was even younger than Tim, why Jason also went out there and did his best every night. To help people, in a way that mattered.

Anyway, Tim also puts in a good showing when they confront Two-Face, despite giving Bruce a near heart-attack over this strange unfamiliar boy wearing his son's uniform when Tim briefly appears to have been crushed - only for him to have saved himself and warned Batman and Nightwing of danger through his quick thinking.

Afterward, Alfred and Dick both advocate for Tim, so Dick is clearly pulling for Tim to be given a chance. Dick's smile here, my heart.

Batman #442

I still wish they'd been a little more explicit with the turn of Dick's mindset here, but at the same time I guess it's pretty effective as show-not-tell!

All in all, I feel like ALPoD was very effective storytelling, well done Marv, hugely enjoyable read, and I can't wait to read more.

[heroesriseandfall]

As someone who works with 2-3 year olds this is absolutely the look of parents who know if they put their kid down for 2 seconds (excepting when he’s around that nice acrobat Dick Grayson!) he will run off to see the clowns and be lost forever

Secret Origins Vol. 2 #50

Batman #436 — Batman: Year Three

Batman #441 — A Lonely Place of Dying: Chapter Three

Highlighting the clown part though, literally in two of these panels he is SO delighted and intrigued by a clown. And what disguise was Dick in when Tim found him at the Circus in their second ever meeting?

The New Titans #60 — A Lonely Place of Dying: Chapter Two

…so he DID run off to see a clown the second they weren’t looking. well, that’s what happens when you leave a kid at boarding school 😔 can’t take your eyes off him for even a second.

[phoenixkaptain]

I don’t want to get into a debate on whether or not Tim’s parents were actually abusive, but I do want to state outright that it doesn’t really matter, because Tim didn’t trust his parents.

What do I mean by this? Well, the beginning of Tim in comics is A Lonely Place of Dying (I’ve talked about it ad nauseum at this point) and one thing you may see people mention is what Tim says about his parents in it.

These are both from Batman (1940-2011) #441

Alfred asks, basically, “You do have parents, don’t you?” And Tim’s body language as he talks about them is strange to me.

Tim scratches his face. This is the only time Tim touches his face in these comics. And his eyes, he stops looking at Alfred, who he’s talking to, and looks at Dick, all the while changing the subject.

Is he lying? No. He’s uncomfortable. A part of this is that this interaction takes place before Tim tells them who he is, which Tim doesn’t want them to know. This is just the first time we see any hint of uncertainty on Tim. Interesting.

More interesting is, in the same issue

“I never told them, but for years I kept having the same nightmare over and over again.”

This is pretty clear cut. He doesn’t tell his parents things. He doesn’t tell them important things. And, well, it’s probably because he doesn’t talk to them very often

These two are from Batman (1940-2011) #444

First things first, Bruce brings up the subject. This isn’t the first time, post his introduction, that we see Tim and Bruce talking. They talk in #443. But Bruce has to broach the subject.

And Tim is avoidant. He says they don’t call often, and he isn’t bothered by it, or he doesn’t appear bothered by it. He doesn’t say what they’re fighting about, nor does he actually say what they’ll do if the trip doesn’t help. He’s very offhand about the whole thing. He almost treats it like he isn’t talking about his parents, but just two people in some circumstances he happens to know about.

Tim cuts Bruce off by pointing out the computer. He doesn’t want Bruce to finish, he doesn’t want Bruce making a promise he ultimately won’t keep, he doesn’t want Bruce to focus on him.

Tim’s relationship with his parents, especialy his father, is, from what I know, always presented in this detached way. Even in Young Justice, when Tim talks to his father, he does so through a newspaper. He doesn’t make eye contact, which is a strange thing because Tim always makes eye contact.

(That’s part of why Tim is a bit unnerving in his introduction. He is always making eye contact. Always.)

Tim doesn’t trust his parents. Why doesn’t he? Because they’re busy. Busy with work, busy with fighting, busy with each other. He doesn’t tell them things. He doesn’t tell them about his nightmares, he definitely didn’t tell them about his vacation week roadtrip, and he doesn’t tell them about Bruce.

Does that make them abusive? I guess not. Not in these issues, anyway. Down the line, I think his father especially crosses the line, but at this point? They’re mutually ignoring each other. Tim talks about his parents in a detached way, as though it doesn’t effect him. And, maybe it doesn’t. This was 1989, not exactly the pinnacle of mental health awareness with proficient knowledge of how absent parents effect the children they’ve not been raising.

Or, Tim used Batman and Robin as a proxy for affection, which is why he feels so strongly towards them and why he tells Alfred they mean everything to them and why Tim is unafraid in the face of his own death but panicky in the face of Alfred’s death. Batman and Robin are just his hyperfixation, something to obsessively focus on and keep track of to keep his head above the water, something he’s been obsessed with since he was three and saw Batman for the very first time, something he says himself he’s followed since he could read to the point that he listened to news reports on the off-chance Batman and Robin might be mentioned at the age of nine.

Who knows? ¯\ _(ツ)_/¯