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harleyquilt · 4 months

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Misreading Touka (Tokyo Ghoul Meta)

For some reason, I've been seeing more dung being thrown at Touka's characterisation in the series, and since I've been wanting to write a meta for a while now, I decided to do a short one addressing some of the criticism I've seen around. This won't go into everything, of course -- the series is far too dense with analytical potential and I am a busy bee. Just know that I do want to dive deeper into Touken/Kanetou at a later point.

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Touka is not reduced to a simple, meaningless housewife, and I do not understand why this perspective is used to undermine her character so often in the fandom. For the sake of this argument, I will be mostly focusing on her characterisation in ;Re, as that is where this criticism is mostly rooted. Yes, she is less active in the first part of the second series, but between all the other characters, events, and plot points, it is bizarre to me that people see so little in Touka, despite all that she does.

I could dive into how Touka as a whole symbolises key themes throughout both series, and how that relates to Kaneki’s development, but I think I will save that for a separate meta. For now, I just want to discuss how Touka is positioned in the second series, and how it does not weaken the characterisation Ishida set up in the first.

Following the end of the first series, which set its tone as a tragedy, Touka opens the ;Re café to act as a refuge for ghouls, just as Yoshimura did beforehand. To clarify, Yoshimura saved Touka from her miserable life on the streets, giving her the chance to live with some semblance of normalcy following the tragic consequences of her childhood. And now, as an adult, and with Yoshimura gone, Touka strives to recreate that environment once more. There are those that think she has done this for Kaneki and Kaneki alone, but that is clearly not the case, even if she does hope for Kaneki’s return one day; she allows Nishiki to take refuge there while he tries to find Kimi, she saves Tsukiyama after the Rosewald operation, and before anyone argues that she was still not directly involved in either case, she actively takes part in Ayato’s mission to save Hinami. It is there that she then sees Kaneki and allows him a place to stay too, following his battle with Arima. She even provides Akira and Amon a place to stay, reconciling their differences in the process, (underrated chapters, I think).

Up until this point, Touka has been forced to ‘live while losing’, and whether she decides to fight or not, it is an unavoidable outcome when it comes to war. She is simply trying to do what she can without trying to kill herself in the process – a flawed sentiment she has seen in her father and Kaneki before, and even to some extent, Ayato and Hinami.

She fights when she can, runs if she has to. She is forced to make this choice again and again, especially when the underground ward is attacked, and for the sake of her unborn child and other weaker ghouls, she must retreat if she doesn’t want all of them to needlessly die.

That said, it is not as if she leaves without trying to fight first, she just isn’t stupidly overpowered like her opponents, (and that isn’t a jab at Ishida, I’m simply clarifying that she can’t defeat these foes with just Hinami at her side). Even then, she manages to stand her ground for a long time, despite the pregnancy and her hunger. Moreover, her kagune has developed since the first series, and like Ayato, she’s able to create more advanced structures with her ukaku. You just have to read in between the lines to see that Touka has never allowed herself to grow soft in the years Kaneki was away, and that only now, during this battle, can you see more of her capabilities.

And when Kaneki is trapped within Dragon, she finally decides that she cannot lose him – she refuses to lose him, because to do so would bring on too much despair. Just as Kaneki has prioritised Touka, Touka, too, will prioritise him, and so, even with her exhaustion, she battles against Mutsuki, digs through the Dragon’s flesh until her fingers and nails break, and almost succumbs to grief at the thought that he was already lost to her. The chapter is overlooked far too often, her desperate determination conveying to the reader the importance of love as a driving force.

Again, we saw this with Kaneki, who pushed himself past his limits in hopes of reaching Touka. Whether you like it or not, love is a powerful thing, and that has been shown throughout the series with many, if not all the characters. And for Kaneki and Touka, their love is their hope, and to lose that love is to lose their hope. So they fight, again and again, for each other and the light they bring into each other’s lives.

Now I can argue all day about how Touka is far more active in the series than people care to admit, but I do not think that is why Touka is labelled as a housewife. I’ve been in the fandom for a long time and this label has been around long before their relationship was canonised, and I think it’s to do with the fact that Touka is clearly more feminine in ;Re.

I’ve already explained that in terms of action, Touka still has plenty of moments to speak of, and personality-wise, I really don’t think she’s as different as people claim her to be. Yes, she’s calmer, but that shouldn’t be seen as a bad development. She’s an adult now, and with adulthood comes maturity, (or it should, anyway). She doesn’t need to fight anyone and everyone to prove herself, that is simply a childish perspective to take. Besides that, she’s still curt in the way she talks, is sarcastic and blunt, though not as harsh as she was before, and she still carries herself with plenty of pride and dignity, which was what was so appealing about her in the first series. Ffs, she confronts the whole CCG and tells them to eat shit because their arguments were annoying her. It’s ridiculous to me that people think she is a shadow of her former self, when there’s plenty of great moments involving her.

As for her more maternal depictions, that is also something that has always been present, if you take a moment to connect the two series together. She was forced to grow up quickly when she became responsible of Ayato, and she effortlessly took Hinami under her wing after the death of her parents. This is an attribute that she continues to exhibit throughout ;Re, watching over the children and trying to comfort them. It’s a touching image, one that circles back around to her pregnancy. And to deem this progression as detrimental is rather…strange to me. In a time when we see women as strong and powerful for everything we represent – our hardships, both physically and emotionally, as well as our strengths – why is it seen as weak when female characters are utilised to represent the strength of womanhood. Because she’s a woman married to a man? Don’t be so childish. If you respect her characterisation at all, you will acknowledge how she continues to exhibit her strengths as an adult, whether that be in battle or beyond it.

After all, Ishida could have easily written it so that she is no longer involved in anything past the discovery of her pregnancy. Except he doesn't, and instead, she fights even more, even harder, in spite of her pregnancy. Because of her pregnancy. And yet, this is somehow weakens her character? She is quite literally going beyond her limits to fight for her future, I see nothing weak in that.

It might be that readers dislike how she changes aesthetically, and that’s fine, but from that comes arguments that excuse why they don’t like her character. I could argue against every little argument I’ve seen about her, but at the end of the day, I feel like most of these points are made just to excuse a personal preference. And that is not an effective use of critical reading. You can’t make the story something it isn’t, and you can’t assume Touka was going to be a character she wasn’t written to be. If you don’t like that or disagree, then maybe this series isn’t for you and it’s time to move on. For now, at least, please give her characterisation the respect she deserves. Her role is so much more than the shallow labelling this fandom tends to give her.

#touken #kanetou #touka kirishima #kaneki ken #tokyo ghoul #my writing #meta #character analysis #good lord can't believe these things still need to be said #smh as if she hasn't been dragged through the dirt enough for existing

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blackbird-brewster · 5 months

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Meta: Jemily Queerbaiting

With the huge influx of posts saying 'Jemily is gonna be canon', I really appreciated seeing this post because OP was completely correct. I didn't want to write an entire dissertation as a reply, so I'm making my own post with my personal opinion on this. (All sources are noted in footnotes)

Before I began this rant, for anyone who thinks this is anti-Jemily. It is not. I have shipped Jemily for 18 friggin years and that's never going to change. This post is specifically my thoughts about queer baiting.

First off, I need to note that the showrunners (and the cast members who use social media) KNOW what a huge queer following this show has and that's why we got pansexual Tara Lewis in S16 [1]. Which, in itself, was SOOOOOOO important!!! Our first canonically queer main in SIXTEEN seasons was a middle-aged Black woman!!! That's phenomenal. (The fact it was horrible rep, because they instantly ruined her relationships once her queerness served it's plot point is a whole other post entirely)

In my opinion, the 'big Jemily moment' Paget posted about on Twitter [2] (and AJ hinted at during a recent IG live) is simply queerbaiting to get people to watch S17. I know a lot of you are newer to the fandom and I love your enthusiasm, I really do, ship and let ship, but listen, let's be real, Jemily is not going to be made canon. The showrunners aren't going to suddenly say (after 17 seasons) 'Surprise, Jemily is endgame'. This show has never cared about queer rep and now that CBS/Paramount have already ticked their queer rep box with Tara, they won't be in any rush to add any other characters to it.

Please buckle in, I've got a lot of thoughts on this matter --

What is Queerbaiting?

If you aren't aware of what queerbaiting is, here's a good definition:

Historically, queerbaiting has carried two meanings: the first is an act of aggressive heterosexuality to shut down queer subtext on screen while still teasing and catering to the queer audience in advertising, public relations, and fan engagement strategies; the second is an existing homoerotic tension between two characters played up on screen while met with derision by the professionals behind the scenes. [3]

The Medium article quoted here is from 2017, a time when parasocial relationships were really starting to take over social media. In 2024, actors are now only a mention or tag away online, they have direct conversations with fans, and this process has allowed for an even deeper form of queerbaiting.

Oftentimes online, actors are asked directly about certain ships and while some ignore these questions (usually to avoid breaking their contracts or other repercussions), others (looking at you, Paget) choose to instead tease fans about queer ships. She's done this for years upon years and if I've learned anything in the past twenty-years of existing in fandom spaces it's this -- don't hold your breath. In it's original meaning, for something to be deemed as queerbaiting there had to be malicious, or at least, purposeful intent to string queer fans along by teasing them with suggestive content about the ship in question, while knowing this ship will never come to fruition in canon.

The thing to remember is, Paget and AJ aren't the only ones who know about Jemily shippers -- the network and showrunners are well aware of this ship too. When networks/showrunners figure out they have a strong sapphic fanbase, they love to use that to their advantage to get more viewers and higher ratings. Queerbaiting is a goldmine to keep fans watching long running shows, look at Rizzoli and Isles, Supergirl, and OUAT for examples of this.

Jemily and Queerbaiting:

Ever since Emily joined the BAU in S2 (2006), there have always been fans who ship JJ/Emily (shoutout to the old LJ forums!). Way before celebs were just a tweet away from fans, back when all our fics began with disclaimers so we wouldn't get sued by networks, we went to great lengths to keep our fanworks far removed from actors/showrunners attention.

As far as Jemily goes, this reply from Paget in a 2009 interview with TVGuide.com [4] (which has now been deleted from their site unfortunately, but there are quotes on Tumblr still [4.a]) confirmed some fans' worst fear -- the actors had found our fanworks online.

TVGuide.com: Of course, a band of fans want her to hook up with Hotch.

Brewster: I know! I didn't realize that fans make these videos on YouTube? A.J. Cook sent me a hilarious one that made it look like Prentiss and J.J. were having a secret lesbian affair. You know, when Hotch was blown up in the SUV, we shot this scene where he's in the hospital and I'm standing next to him, looking at his bleeding ear. Our director came in and said, "Paget, you're looking at Hotch like you're in love with him. It looks really weird." So now, every day, Thomas [Gibson] and I flutter our eyelids at each other.

This was the first time I recall anyone acknowledging Jemily shippers publicly and at the time (Jan 2009), the show was still in Season Four (just before CBS fired both AJ and Paget [5]). Paget genuinely said it's 'hilarious' that fans shipped JJ/Emily. Even now, I'll see people say 'We know Paget and AJ have seen Jemily fanvids, so they obviously ship it too' -- but those same people rarely acknowledge the full context of the original answer. Paget not only thought JJ/Emily were 'hilarious', but then she doubled down and turned her reply back to how she and Thomas liked to play up the chemistry between Emily/Hotch.

While no one can say for sure which video it was that AJ sent Paget, just knowing they were watching JJ/Emily fanvids sent a bit of a shockwave through the femslash side of the fandom. To some it felt like an invasion of privacy, fanworks are by fans for fans -- knowing the cast were poking around in fandom spaces added an extra layer of worry around what we fans were posting online. Fifteen years ago, it used to be quite taboo for actors to outwardly discuss shipping or other fanon for whatever show they were in, and we fans were usually comfortably removed from the actors altogether.

Of course, now it's the norm for fans and actors/showrunners to co-exist online and interact with one another. This connection has opened new ways for shows to queerbait their fans. Pretty much every show has some form of social media account now and there is no doubt that the people running those accounts keep up with the most popular ships and hashtags. Not to mention that actors are constantly barraged with questions about whether they ship their character with x,y,z, or whether they think a ship should be made canon, etc. These interactions only serve to benefit the shows themselves, because whether the conversation is for or against a certain ship, it's all just free publicity (Why do you think CM now has a TikTok account?)

Every time AJ or Paget say anything about Jemily, the queer side of the fandom loses their minds. But this has been going on for YEARS now and every single time, it turns out to be nothing but social media hype and queerbaiting. Remember this AJ post? [6] Or what about the notorious reply by Paget to a fan, where she talks about how she and AJ held hands under the table 'for the shippers' [7] I've seen this cycle over and over again, so perhaps I am cynical, but I'm not getting my hopes up that Jemily will ever seriously be canon.

It's widely known now, after both Kirsten [8] and Paget [9] have talked about it, that there was an early idea where Prentiss was supposed to be queer, but that was ultimately scraped before it ever made it on screen. For context, please remember, this show has been airing for nearly twenty years. It began in 2005, during the highly conservative Bush administration. Queer people didn't have rights in the US, we couldn't get married, we were rarely protected under discrimination laws, and we could even be fired for simply being queer (in some states). Diverse queer representation on screen was extremely limited to things like 'The L Word' and 'Queer as Folk' (both aired on Showtime, so they were behind a paywall. And as far as tLw goes, that show was extremely male-gaze focused and is horrible in nearly all regards if you try to rewatch it now). As far as prime time shows went, queer rep was even more rare. Which is why Emily wasn't queer from the get-go.

Yes, things have changed since 2006 in terms of queer rep on TV. We have a myriad of queer identities represented in TV and film nowadays, which is why I think it's so easy for newer fans to say 'lf she was supposed to be gay anyway, they should just make Emily queer in canon!' I know this is what fuels most fans' demands for Emily being confirmed queer, and I get it, I DO. I would be all for it! However, I do not, in one hundred years, actually believe that is going to happen after they already canonically queer confirmed Tara in S16. The fact we even got ONE queer character is ground-breaking for this show.

It's also worth noting, that in the time between Paget's departure in 2012 and her return in 2016, she became very active on Twitter. This was when more and more fans began asking her about Jemily and after Kirsten's AfterEllen interview, fans also pushed for Paget to address the possibility of Emily being gay. 'Pushed' is actually an understatement for some of the outright harassment she would receive. (AJ received some of this harassment too, but less so because she doesn't use social media ass often) Back then, neither of them replied to these things directly. Yet, no matter what either woman posted, the replies were full of Jemily stans begging for her acknowledgement. (Did you know 'stan' is literally a term coined for stalker fans?) I remember one time AJ's friend was missing and she posted info on her IG about it, you know what the replies were? People asking her about Jemily. It was genuinely sickening.

Within this context, it was no surprise to fans when Emily came back in S12 , she and JJ's friendship was seemingly erased. The two women were rarely on screen together in the late seasons, plus the writers saw fit to even give Emily not only one (Mark in London, but two, on-screen boyfriends for the first time in the entire series. I personally do not think these changes to Emily's character were coincidence, I saw the hellscape of what people would say to AJ and Paget online and I fully believe that upon Paget's return to the show, the showrunners purposely tried to distance JJ and Emily to dissuade the more abusive side of the fanbase.

Can I prove that, no. But it is the only reason I can think of as to why Emily S12+ seemingly didn't care about JJ anymore, despite their deep and meaningful friendship. I mean, they both CROSSED THE WORLD to go rescue each other in prior canon -- but when Emily comes back, they acted like they barely knew each other. This was even more prevalent in S16, when JJ's main storylines all revolved around Will, and Emily barely looked at JJ in the entirety of ten episodes. (Remember how Prentiss didn't even hug JJ after bomb, but she did go hug Luke?)

So, do Paget and AJ earnestly ship Jemily, or are they continuing the long tradition of queerbaiting us? Who fucking knows, not me. But based on the history of this fandom, I think I can make a safe bet. (Interestingly, if you search all of Paget's twitter for the word 'Jemily' [10] she only has 3 direct tweets mentioning the ship. I don't think it's a coincidence that two are within the past few months since they started filming S17 (the other one was a RT of Kirsten (who tagged something Jemily)

This is all to say --

Just because Paget and AJ have publicly talked about Jemily,, this doesn't mean it's ever going to happen on screen. And you know what, THAT'S OKAY!! There has been this constant outcry (after Tara became queer confirmed) of 'Do Emily next' or 'Why wasn't it Emily with a girlfriend!?' and 'Jemily needs to be canon in S17!' -- as if people believe their ships aren't worth anything unless they are canon.

That couldn't be further from the truth! Fandom is built on headcanons and fan interpretations and rare pairs and all types of shippers. Your ship does NOT need to be canon for you to enjoy it. I will ship Jemily forever, no matter what. I don't think there will be some magical queer plot in S17, at best, we might actually get to see Emily/JJ on screen together again and after the train wreck that was S16 -- I'll take whatever I can get.

And hey -- if I am completely wrong, if Erica Messer pulls a Korrasami out of her hat, I will be ecstatic. I will be happy to be proved wrong, but at the same time, I'm not going to lose sleep over it and I'm DEFINITELY not going to go hound the actors about it on social media.

Sources:

[1] 2022 Digital Spy article about the importance of Tara's coming out

[2] 04/18/24 Paget Tweet

[3] 2017 Queerbaiting article from medium.com

[4] 2009 Broken TVGuide link

[4.a] Tumblr quote from the above TVGuide Interview

[5] 2010 Kirsten interview screenrant.com

[6] 2019 AJ Instagram Post

[7] 2020 Paget video on Twitter (via @karasluthqr)

[8] 2015 Kirsten interview AfterEllen.com

[9] 2016 Paget Interview CriminalMindsFans.com

[10] @PagetPaget search 'Jemily'

#criminal minds #emily prentiss #jennifer jareau #paget brewster #aj cook #cm commentary #queerbaiting #cm meta #criminal minds evolution #cm evolution #my writing #long post

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mecachrome · 6 months

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omg k i just saw ur top 3 landoscar moments post from october 2023... any changes/updates since then? new moments made it onto the list? or if not... favorite moment of 2024 so far? (i just like hearing (reading?) ur thoughts it's like reading an intellectual (but still sappy in my fave way) bedtime story 🥰)

hklsdfhlsfhd naurrr... this is so embarrassing why am i still deeply landoscarpilled 6 months later 😔

but honestly i have been thinking about this and the sheer volume of crasyinsane material and lore we've accrued since last year because now i'm like how would you even begin constructing a top 3....... the possibilities are endless!!!

in terms of pre-october content that i might have missed before, i'd say most of this ask still holds (lando's biggest fan dot mp4 will NEVER lose its insanity to me. quintessential landoscar meta as far as i'm concerned) but now i also desperately need 2 shout out portrait painting challenge...... when it came out i was of course susceptible to the "you look beautiful" bantz though mostly just wrote it off as shipbait and since then i've looked back on this video multiple times and been like ?! why was oscar's deference to lando so insane actually.... i've alr mentioned this b4 but 1) oscar taking lando's intro in stride and immediately responding i am ready lando norris 2) oscar playfully acquiescing and letting lando use purple after he'd already chosen it 3) >like 5 seconds later. "you like purple don't you?" "uhhhh... i can do now" (who says that.) 4) another stunning display of lando Nooticing and fixating on oscar's hair swoop and last but not least 5) the way oscar FOLDS OVER and giggles helplessly when lando tells him i've just done you all pink ??? like. OKAY. cheers

looking @ recent content..... personally i find 814 so fascinating because while there are many Discrete Moments i can point out that make my brain explode i also feel like to some degree the reason we (? or maybe just me. again i apologize for the nonsensical drivel i create) love to make parallel gifsets of them is because they have such an understated dynamic built off many minute unspoken habits and wordless exchanges and essentially Patterns so there is less of like... a need for spontaneous intimacy.... if that makes sense. it's about the consistency of reciprocal comfort... iterations..... palisades palisades......... ok this is totally not related to the ask i've just been rotating it in my mind

anyway 10 personable favs !!! arranged chronologically

finish the lyrics (oct 2023): a deeply obvious one but you can't Not include it 😩 i can't believe this came out a week after i answered that because seriously what da hell. @ OSCAR PIASTRI WHAT IS WRONG WITH YEWWWWWWWW. there are sooooo many things i could mention here that i feel have already been exhaustively expounded, the most obvious of course being the classic ojp Heart Eyes moment(s) (Many such cases......but also specifically the love story one) (like i'd argue silverstone was mostly responsible for getting 814 off the ground BUT this video was when their dynamic became the most "mainstream" and accessible to fandom as a whole... the amount of non-f1 fans i saw qrting reups of that clip!!!!) anyway but then you also get 👉 whatever the inside joke they have about old town road is. oscar saying "i reckon you'd be unreal in a karaoke bar in japan" which i still think is such a Line... just me ??? the way he verryryryyyy softly sings "yes" with lando at the end of their love story karaoke and the insane camera angle of him just out of focus. like. really in general there is just such a soft and lighthearted and Fun air to their dynamic in this video that makes me ;__; AND this is another prime moment of lando narrating oscar's firsts for him (singing on camera at mcl!!!) . ALSAURR lando tapping oscar on the bicep while sarcastically complimenting him. once again for two guys who never touch it compels me... actually i could go on about this video tbh like how oscar nearly falls off the couch giggling at lando playing the songs together and then it cuts to the next one and he's suddenly all flushed and his bangs have gotten all fucked up. he's so... they're so... let's move on.

splunk sim city challenge (nov 2023): many classic lines such as "i haven't even distracted you yet!" + oscar knowing his podium year and lando saying "you're a nerd!" + lando going ":) :o are you okay?" and so on... general setup of this challenge was crasy tbh. how it revolves around disrupting the other person's focus and the visual asymmetry of one being sat higher and having to lean over to distract them and how oscar just giggles goodnaturedly when lando sticks his cue cards in front of his face instead of getting annoyed and—SO ON. also forever obsessed with how oscar wordlessly lifts his eyebrows at lando at the end lol

that one sticker video (nov 2023): this video is insaaAAANEEEE to me. ANYONE ELSE??? first of all oscar and lando gingerly standing across each other on either side of the flower bed (while zak brown assumes a power stance directly on it lmfao) is already so visually overwhelming but then the way oscar glances up as he's removing the sticker from the cap, how you can seeeeee him calculating the move the entire time and being adorably pleased about it, @__@ the way lando grins at him afterward... (also crying at zb glancing at them and being equally charmed by their antics) wahhh TT__TT the vibes of this clip... immaculate

oscar thanking lando in their final post-race message (nov 2023): honestly the entire message in general but :__) one of my fav 814 moments OAT is oscar including lando in his thank you speech and lando not really expecting it and being genuinely touched by the gesture. lando is so endearingly fidgety the entire time honestly and the way he perks up a bit and wrings his hands together and playfully smiles at oscar when he mentions him... okayyy. anyway 2 me it's reminiscent of yes/no challenge "am i the funniest teammate you've ever had?" "(shyly) yeahhh... you're up there" (said in the same baby-ish voice as "so... lando?" UGH. UGHHHH) and how lando genuinely gets a bit awkwardly flustered by it like!!! god. wait ALSO i don't have the space for this so i'm throwing in end of season awards MMMM debatable + how gleefully lando threw oscar under the bus and in general just the incredible expression work going on for both of them during this exchange. God [2]

si rapid fire questions (dec 2023): this video was crucial in determining that oscar... well. is obsessed with accommodating and mirroring lando. many things we already knew (aka listening to whatever music lando listens to; insert prema lap "maybe i should move to an english team because the music's better" moment here) but equally important is oscar "stealing" lando's dinner, how lando presses him on the back to the future question until oscar just changes his answer to his, and of course as you know per my blog title NO I'M GOING TO KEEP YOU HAPPY is in my eyes top 5 most insane things oscar piastri has ever said. likeee... lando showing a bit of jokey remorse over enforcing his rules (don't even get me started about lando and game/challenge rules...) but oscar being sooo determined 2 honor his teasing 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫 :melting_face: x100!!!

need to split this into two lists because apparently there's a div character limit 😔 continuing on

hilton spa ad (feb 2024): of course this pained me because of This Moment (specifically lando bringing his hand back down when oscar tried to lift it from beneath him 😮‍💨) but that is neither here nor there. obsessed with the salmon at the engineering table anecdote because the most logical explanation for oscar Not doing that anymore is because lando didn't like it... or he just eats different things now but we already know that he's adopted lando's preferred meal b4 so that's equally a lot 2 digest !!! also >the callback to their one million LOOK AT YOU/HIM moments >how they touch shoulders exactly Once when they sit down and then never again despite lando continuously leaning into oscar's space to get to the button... eugh. also just top tier oscar faces + hair 🥰

opening title behind the scenes (mar 2024): thinking about all the hilarious gifsets of this moment that i ate up deliciously 🧡🧡🧡 this was such a significant reminder of how 814 have just gotten like, exceedingly comfortable around each other & have learned 2 communicate via the most inscrutable expressions and noises and gestures that somehow suit Them perfectly x__x although i doubt they will ever really become ~effusive~ with each it's frankly even more devastating that they both help each other care less about maintaining appearances / how they often get so sucked into their interactions (see next bullet point) that everything else kind of just fades away in that instant.... all right ⚠️⚠️⚠️ maybe that's a bit of a stretch but we can pretend for the rpf lens!!! see also my tag spiel in this beautiful tuva gifset.

photo day antics (mar 2024): do you ever just...... what went on in bahrain. honestly. more from this weekend in a second but this video plus the accompanying photo encapsulate their dynamic so perfectly it makes me scream... how 814 are not only so annoyingly focused on each other all the time but also stand SOOO UNNECESSARILY CLOSE while every other teammate pairing is spaced out normally. yuki and checo glancing at them alksfdhdf 😭 truly so ridiculous that the poor photo person tried to get lando's attention and they pretended to comply for two seconds before oscar was lifting his foot to show lando his boot again. also why did it take oscar a million years to step away from lando and put a more appropriate amount of space between them...?! and even then it was barely that much........... (10 paragraphs of speaking later) I prefer really not to speak.

accidental waist grab (mar 2024): this gave me psychic damage so bad i should be lobotomized. we've already spoken about this perhaps erm excessively but why did lando feel the need to stand JUST as close to him if not closer after they broke apart. there was truly no need...... honestly the way this ship will have us looking up driver cams and staring at esteban ocon's ass as he gets out his car just for a single glimpse of their parc fermé dynamic.

bahrain post-race interview antics (mar 2024): You already knowwwww. the sky sports "he follows me everywhere" moment is equally important but the f1tv interview giving us horrifically natural banter (juxtaposing this with their previous interview moments...), lando's dumb faux australian accent and oscar playing along as always, and most of all them HIJACKING THE INTERVIEW & commiserating on camera together ❓❗️ lichrally the grid photo all over again. often when i have emotions over an 814 moment i worry that i sound overly He_Only_Got_Two_Eyes.jpeg but truly sometimes two people are just objectively insane. plus land of piastri/lando piastri.....

also runner up is the f1tv interview with lawrence aka lando's cooing noise @ oscar discussing lily (anyone else frame by frame color pick oscar's face to see how badly he flushed... no? just me?) + the beautiful self-aware surfacing of the CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS of their relationship...... !!! love when 2 guys expose and confirm their own sincerity in trying to verbally resist it. hem

is this anything. sorry eve LKSFDHLDHSF thank u for the ask & pls lmk what ur fav moments are too 🧡

#ask #i need to stop answering asks like this. sorry #814 meta

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thesherrinfordfacility · 6 months

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What is your take on the whole "the Metatron threatened Aziraphale off-screen & Aziraphale lied to protect Crowley" theory that seems to have become very popular in the fandom? Personally, I think it does raise some interesting points, but I'm not sold on it for a variety of reasons. I love your metas btw! ❤️

hi anon!💕 thank you so much, that's very kind of you!

gosh, been a while since i've had a meta ask!✨ hmm. tbh, im in two camps, and i do think there's some merit in the two of them matching up. i wrote a couple of posts on this, breaking down the final fifteen practically shot-by-shot, and have read countless different takes from other brilliantly observant people, but essentially my thought process is this (lengthy explanation under the cut, im afraid - im a bit meta-rusty):

aziraphale did not want to go to heaven. that much is clear from the two refusals he gives the metatron. furthermore, he rejects heaven for what it currently is and what it stands for (and, arguably imo, reaches the end of his tether with god, too) in s1, when he realises that heaven is also firmly working to bring about armageddon. that it wasn't just the agenda of the archangels; the metatron, the voice of god, confirms that war is the goal, no matter the collateral. and god does not intervene. this continues throughout s2; aziraphale is notably still disdainful of heaven, is happy enough being separated from it... but it should be noted that he has replaced heaven, and the structure and comfort it offered him, with crowley ("it's nice to tell someone about the good things you've done... now that im not reporting to heaven...")

i do think what we're shown on screen is accurate. there's allowance for the fact that the flashbacks to the aziraphale-metatron conversation may be biased and therefore unreliable, being from aziraphale's pov, but... i don't think there will be anything necessarily revealed that wasn't shown to us in the FF. there might be snippets of that conversation that he's kept from crowley, but has essentially seen fit to share with the audience... so personally i think it's accurate, and nothing is missing. and tbh, if nothing else, it would feel narratively cheap if the 'solution' to the FF was in something being purposefully withheld from the audience. in that respect, i do take the FF at face value

we know that aziraphale has a low evaluation of himself. it's presented to us that he's evidently hedonistic and enjoys earthly pleasures just as much as crowley does, but i don't think it's as evident until shax's jabs during the demon raid just how much aziraphale actually might be - frankly - ashamed of these things. i think on a fundamental level he likes being an angel, it's all he's ever known. but even if he accepts that he may be a bit of a bastard - is even slightly proud of it - i think he's equally self-conscious of the fact that who he truly is will never be enough for heaven, god, or to warrant his own angelhood, and all these things he enjoys equally serve as a source of shame in how far it removes him from what his belief on what a good angel should be

in the same vein, he's caught between the devil and the deep blue sea in that he might feel that he's not enough for crowley, either. case in point for me, unfortunately, is that crowley has constantly reaffirmed that they are both on their own side, but when aziraphale opts to shelter gabriel, arguably the right thing to do for many reasons but ultimately because that's the kind of person aziraphale is (imo), crowley retracts it... possibly unconsciously, and completely understandably, but aziraphale definitely notes it ("i thought we carved it out for ourselves!") and his resulting petulant, bratty dismissal is textbook responding to rejection with rejection. especially when aziraphale clearly was not totally on side with "our own side" at the end of s1, but has come around to it and accepted it in the four years since. so, it feels like aziraphale has done what he considers to be the right thing to do, a core principle of who he is in modern day (having learnt some very hard lessons along the way) but that's enough for crowley to take back everything he had said previously

aziraphale loves crowley, that much is evident. and he may well remember the angel that crowley used to be with some degree of fondness. however, a) im not sold that the pre-fall flashback is aziraphale's POV, and b) that does not mean that aziraphale preferred crowley as an angel. imo, he fell for crowley whilst he was a demon, but because crowley was crowley. a demon that pretends otherwise, but is at heart, just a little bit, a good person. the concept of good is important to aziraphale, but he hasn't removed it from being a purely angelic trait. ergo, i think he considers crowley to have fallen unfairly, that it was a gross injustice (and i say this fully believing that 'just asking questions' may not have been the reason why crowley fell), and that if anyone deserves to be restored - to be forgiven and essentially be asked for forgiveness in return - its crowley

similarly, i think we can be led to assume that aziraphale doesn't actually know anything about crowley's fall, nor his actual thoughts and feelings on the matter. all he knows is what crowley told him - "sauntered vaguely downwards" - and up until the FF crowley hasn't truly (as far as i can recall) ever declared that he doesn't want the chance to be an angel again. he's obviously derisive of heaven, that is very clear, but when he states "unforgivable, that's what i am", i think that registered to aziraphale that crowley might feel like he won't be forgiven, but doesn't mean he wouldn't want it. all the sneers crowley has volleyed at heaven and the archangels might have been, up until now, simply been anger and resentment for something that was unfair in the first place. add to this that crowley has been placed in danger on multiple occasions by hell, and again i think the offer of restoration - to be beyond the reach of hell altogether - is lucrative to aziraphale... and it's now within his power to give.

so. i do think that there is an implicit threat in the aziraphale-metatron discussion. aziraphale visibly becomes very uncomfortable when crowley is brought up, the exact nature of their relationship heavily implied as not having escaped the metatron's notice. aziraphale is not happy as he walks back to the bookshop, and he's erratic and scattered when he delivers the news and offer to crowley. a threat may not have been intended, let alone been vocalised, but i do think aziraphale feels under threat of some kind... that any way you slice it, he doesn't feel like he has any choice in returning to heaven, and instead chooses to make hay whilst the sun shines etc.

but equally... i think aziraphale believes the best in everyone and everything. he has constantly been ostracised, mocked, or ignored as being irrelevant to heaven - and even himself perhaps wonders if he should be an angel at all. but here the metatron is, recognising that aziraphale might be "the angel for the job". whilst i don't think aziraphale buys in to the metatron's flattery, because im fairly sure that the angel as demonstrably intelligent as he is would potentially consider that the flattery is superficial and overplayed (especially given how nearly all of it contradicts the s1 conversation that he and the metatron had), i do think aziraphale might be thinking '...yeah, i am the angel for the job. just not the job you're intending'.

metatron mentions nothing about 'making a difference', but that's exactly what aziraphale tries to implore with crowley; that they could change things, and him being in charge - with crowley by his side, in on the subterfuge - might just be what is required. exactly as the people they currently are. there is something about heaven that aziraphale believes is worth saving, and i think that's where the "its the side of truth, of light... of good" comes in. qualities that he thinks heaven should be, was always meant to be, and he could restore. crowley however considers the endeavour to be utterly pointless.

i also think there's an element of doublespeak going on... kinda. more specifically, that aziraphale is speaking to two audiences in the scene (three, if you count us!); he's talking in a way that sounds entirely like he's dancing to metatron's tune, that he's heaven's man through-and-through... but also in a way that he's trying to sell the idea to crowley in turn - and is speaking in a way that won't tip either audience off to the full reality of the situation as he sees it. i wouldn't go so far as to say it's a code, though - e.g. i personally don't accept the ''time out' signal but crowley missed it' theory - but instead that he's trying to lead the metatron into underestimating him, and also perhaps downplay the exact truth of the situation from crowley. if crowley were to know that aziraphale is frightened or uneasy, or felt under threat in any way, i think he might be afraid that crowley would do something drastic, or at least inadvertently give 'the game' away. nonetheless though, he has to reveal some of his true intentions to crowley, in order to bring him on side - just very subtly.

regarding the restoration offer - kinda went over it above, but i do think aziraphale genuinely thought that crowley would want it, and would take it not just so he could be an angel again, but also in order to help change heaven and be with aziraphale. that being said, as he walks into the bookshop, i think a part of him recognised it might be a hard sell, and instead aziraphale would need to frame it in a way as being like... a disguise, or a cover, or some sort? but aziraphale severely underestimated crowley's feelings on heaven and angelhood, even if i don't think it was an unfair assumption to make, either. aziraphale was excited about it because it was something he could actually give crowley, something within his power to bestow - to right a wrong that he's possibly always thought was a gross injustice ever since job.

god im sorry this has taken so long but - no, i don't think the metatron threatened aziraphale off-screen, but i do think aziraphale feels threatened by the discussion and implications within it, and whilst feeling that he has no way out, instead opts to return to heaven to exact his influence - as an angel that's not like the rest of them - and to play his own game... to do the right thing, and make a difference.

and no, i don't think he lied to crowley to protect him. i think he had to toe a line between 'the metatron might somehow be able to hear and observe us, so i have to speak in such a way that makes it seem im on heaven's side', and 'what i say to crowley has to be without cottoning him onto the fact that i feel threatened, bc a) he might do something silly and b) the metatron would know, but what i say also has to be worded so that he can see why i truly want to go back'.

thank you for the ask, i really enjoyed it!!! sorry you have to read an essay tho oops💕

#good omens #ask #feral domestic/final fifteen meta

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icarusallusion · 7 months

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On the kick of relationships I feel were a bit wasted on lack of expansion and fandom media literacy.

Volgin and Ocelot. While they definitely do not stem from the same problems as Kazuhira and Quiet like I talked about in my other post, I still feel they aren't explained enough, hours of exposition but nothing quite explains why they are the way they are. Part of that leads to their allure as characters, the years of character building we don't hear or see, but their subtle relationship really falls flat on a lot of gamers I've found.

Into them themselves before I get into all the meta stuff.

Volgin doesn't waste time torturing and shocking people who minorly inconvenience him. He kills Granin pretty much just for fun, shocks and sexually tortures EVA, tortures his own men from the simplest lack of respect, and nukes a facility which kills multiple of his countrymen. All of these disturb Ocelot, but he never says much about it until it comes at the pain of Russia itself. (i.e killing Granin who benefits them and Russia in turn, not truly caring about torture when he learns its for a spy, feeling bad ahout killing Russian men even those who go agaisnt the GRU, and the nukes destroying Russian soil and countrymen)

However any time Ocelot calls Volgin out on his sadistic and cruel behaviors, Volgin never says anything truly negative back to Ocelot. For a man who does awful things to everyone else the way he hesitates to hurt Ocelot whether through physical or verbal means was always interesting to me.

Especially this interaction after Granin is killed by Volgin.

Volgin speaks down on Ocelot, however this isn't done in an insulting way, it's simply the truth in Volgin's eyes. Volgin raised Ocelot since he was 16, Ocelot is still decades younger than him, and is still ranks below.

To Volgin, Ocelot needs to be weeded out himself, of the care he deeply holds for Russia. Volgin undermines Ocelot and how he feels towards the war and cruelty surrounding it, that his feelings have no place within the war and that they're a threat to their organization. While on the surface it refers to how Ocelot is too hot headed and jumps the gun, that he won't be able to focus if he is always judging others. On a deeper level, it read to me as Volgin cares for Ocelot. That the judgement from Ocelot doesn't just break the GRU's unity, it breaks Volgin's unity with Ocelot.

Volgin doesn't want to get rid of Ocelot, that much is evident when in the final boss battle when this is their exchange.

Ocelot shoots at Volgin, disobeys orders, disrespects his title, etc, etc. Despite this, they have the same back and forth they always do. Volgin simply keeps ordering him until Ocelot just leaves. It comes across as Volgin trusts Ocelot to find the bombs, either that or views him too inferior to do any real damage on his own devices. All and all, Volgin doesn't care about Ocelot's disrespect towards him when if it was anyone else they'd be dead.

Speaking of the boss fight, it really added more to their relationship.

THIS ESPECIALLY

Volgin comes so close to shocking Ocelot, but he can't, simply just a warning. Then in the next scene, Ocelot looks to Volgin for reassurance on his aid to Snake. This back and forth always ends each word from Ocelot with an obedience to Volgin.

The fact Volgin and Ocelot have whole conversations with each other from body language alone and the way Ocelot himself relies on body language really is such a good detail

The way they simply talk with one another also always felt like a parent to a child to me. (Maybe a very bad parent but still) In a way, they are a very fucked up found family.

Ocelot kidnapped by The Philosophers as a baby, sent to the GRU to be a spy at 16 and being guided through the rest of his years up until the end of teenage life by Volgin who he knew he'd have to betray at some point. Volgin who was raised by a member of The Philosopher.

While family has never been something they have been expanded on with, I think that speaks more. Neither Ocelot nor Volgin have any semblance with family. They are each other's only sense of that. Through the traitorous attitude of Ocelot and through the hedonist sadism fogging Volgin, they are the only people who get each other but ultimately are not fond of each other in most scenarios. They serve as a twisted parallel of The Boss and Snake to me.

Which sucks even more when The Boss is literally Ocelot's real mom, don't know how to thread that in either, but it's just ughhh literally custody battle between The Boss and Volgin every time they're on screen together with Ocelot

I could talk forever and ever about the analysis between them, but onto the meta. My issues are not within any prejudice or forced characterization like Kaz and Quiet. However, I feel they come from the writers thinking they were not interesting enough. They don't put a lot of their relationship on the surface and by the time players realize their relationship the game is over. MGS is really a game that always deserves a second playthrough to fully grasp its ideas and characters.

Volgin and Ocelot didn't grasp a lot of people because they weren't pushed and pushed like EVA and Snake. They were an afterthought in the game while I think they really could've been given more, considering how much of Volgin affects Ocelot. Ocelot liked torture because of how Volgin raised him, Ocelot has a complicated relationship with Russia partially due to Volgin, and Ocelot's relationships with people are forever shadowed by how Volgin raised him.

I think they really could've been something so interesting, but so much of it was swept under the rug by other relationships and topics within the game. I don't know, tell me what you think this is mostly spit balling about two characters I really like. 🐆

#metal gear solid #revolver ocelot #volgin mgs #looking back on this definitely couldve written this better lol

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shihalyfie · 6 months

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Hi! I wasn't able to see 02TB in theaters and with it coming out on english blu-ray soon I was wondering how was the official translation? I'm nervous about it after seeing your post talking about the Kizuna translation and how messy thst was.

I've also heard the subbed version was using dubtitles is this true?

The dubtitles thing is true, unfortunately. The good news is, even with it using dubtitles, the translation doesn't seem to be nearly as bad as Kizuna's was!

In the case of Kizuna, it seems that the movie was translated to English using the messed up translation that was in the official subs, then the dub was written based on that messed up translation, making it two tiers of disaster. (A more detailed breakdown is in the post the OP mentioned.) In the case of 02TB, whatever translation was used as a base seems to have been generally accurate, and although "dubtitles" usually is an inherent recipe for disaster, it seems like the dub was written with the knowledge that the script would be made into subs later. So unlike...pretty much every other American English Digimon dub...there's no added jokes, no extra lines, everything sticks pretty closely to the Japanese script, and the furthest they went was just playing with the phrasing and making minor changes so things would lip-sync. Pretty surprising, honestly.

That doesn't mean I don't still have some quibbles with it. In particular, I'm guessing whoever did the base translation wasn't familiar with Adventure lore or what lore points are kind of die-on-a-hill level for the fandom (especially "is this epilogue-compliant or not?"), so there was some loss in nuance regarding the discussion of partnerships and such that made the issue way more confusing than it needed to be. But that's not something I can entirely blame the translator for, and besides, I'm not sure that's something that would be any different if the subs weren't dubtitles; it's a recurring problem that goes beyond just this movie, and it was a problem in tri. and Kizuna too (and I'd argue it was much worse there, since unlike them, 02TB doesn't really reference the original series that much).

To put it simply, in the case of Kizuna, the subs were messy enough to ruin much of the meaning of the plot itself, and if someone were to ask me about Kizuna having only seen it with the official subs or dub, I would probably strongly suggest that they go over it again with a properly done translation (a fansub or a translation of one of the novels or whatnot). But for 02TB, if someone's only seen the official subs (dubtitles) or dub, I wouldn't really see any reason to worry about anything, especially since the movie itself was refreshingly easy-to-understand and straightforward. I don't think the minor little quibbles I had were enough to significantly change the overall plot or anything, so while I'll probably still make a post to clarify the aforementioned lore translation issues once the Blu-ray comes out, it's not something I think would matter too much if you're not a hardcore fanfic/meta writer or whatnot.

#shiha's ask box #digimon adventure 02 the beginning #digimon adventure last evolution kizuna #fancyobservation1

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anartisticalniche · 7 months

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Spoilers for the new episode

Okay, before getting into the new episode review, i wanna address something real quick, and I believe you all know what it is.

So before anyone asks, yes, I have been staying up to date on the drama situation.

Imma just say that what Glitch did is awful and very unbecoming of an Indie company for animation, and the employees did not deserve this kind of treatment.

However, this will not stop me from watching SMG4 as a show and draw fanarts of it.

Joining this fandom was the best decision I ever took, and I've meet so many wonderful people that inspired me so much during these past few months, taking me out of an art block and lack of inspiration to do art projects that I had ever since 2020.

So for me to just leave isn't really on my plans, at all, and I will keep doing what makes me happy, and I also have to thank SMG4 for it.

I will not obviously support Glitch by buying their merch, as I do believe they need to apologize for their awful behaviour towards those that didn't deserve this.

Once done that, and once they try to better themselves, I might try to rethink on my decision, but for now, this is my stance on it.

And now, onto the review!

This episode made me had a stupid silly grin the entire time ajhjhsjhds

like, I love how this was Luke and James just hanging out and messing around, and then they went: "This could totally be a video lol we should do that in universe-"

So we get SMG4 and 3 hanging out and playfully arguing with each other on their opinions on their friends and what kind of places theyd have on a power tier list XD

The just giggled like idiots and argued, but this has to be the most playful and friendly approach they had in a while, ever since the WOTFI 2023.

They weren't at each others throats, and it was a breath of fresh air, and a way to show how these two interact when theyre cool with each other

Now you're gonna say: "But this was Luke and James interacting, its not similar to how Three and Four interact. So this is just them using the characters to rappresent themselves."

And my answer to that is that no, it isnt.

You could think of it as a meta way of the guys interacting, but including in universe scenes and voice acting at the beginning and end of the video, makes it so that this is something that Four and Three would do, as friends.

Their relationship is growing more and more, and its a clear sign that these many episodes with these two as protagonists makes it so that its hinting at the next short arc being focused on them.

Now I dont know if it could be a good or a bad sign, but it is a sign nonetheless.

And i cant wait to see what it could develop into.

#smg4 #smg4 spoilers #nichetalk #tw drama

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kanansdume · 9 months

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Hello! Your pro-Jedi posts are so precious in mostly anti-Jedi rhetoric circulating around fandom and canon (sadly). So I wanted to ask: have you read a novel Ashoka by E.K.Johnson? If you haven’t, I hope you don’t mind some spoilers and a small rant.

I didn’t expect a lot while getting to it, but it still rubbed me wrong. Cannot remember specifically, but the general idea was ‘The Jedi were so trapped in the past and dogmatic, so they’re partially to blame for their downfall’. After reading lots of Jedi-defending meta, it just hurts.

One moment I remember most, though. After Ahsoka and Bail Organa save population of a small planet, occupied by the Empire, Bail calls her a Jedi.

Ahsoka: I’m no Jedi.

Bail: But you act like one.

And I’m just: yes! Yes, you do act like a Jedi! You meditate the Jedi way, you think the Jedi way – how come you’re not a Jedi? Only because you weren’t knighted? Meta-speaking, Kanan, Ezra and Luke also weren’t fully trained by the community, but they still are Jedi. Especially in a non-Jedi Imperial world. And non-Force-sensitive population in-universe won’t see the difference between a fully-trained Jedi Knight and an almost fully-trained Jedi Padawan – they’re still ‘Jedi’ to them.

I felt like this novel enforces the current idea that Ahsoka is better that ‘those stupid old dogmatic Jedi of the Prequels’. Sorry for the rant and thanks for reading.

Thank-you, I'm glad you've liked what I've managed to contribute to the pro Jedi fandom!

As for the Ahsoka novel, I haven't read it (but I don't mind spoilers since I don't ever plan to). I read like the first two thirds of Queen's Peril and then got bored and then I started hearing some pretty nasty things about E.K. Johnston and have refused to ever pick it back up again or ever read another of her books. So I'm not at all shocked that she's part of the Jedi critical crowd. It's even LESS shocking that it came out within the Ahsoka novel, just given the way Ahsoka as a character has been going for YEARS. It sounds like it's handling the issue in the same basic way a lot of people have done, nothing unique there.

If I'm willing to try to re-interpret the "I'm no Jedi" stuff into a more pro Jedi version, Ahsoka doesn't see herself as a Jedi because, unlike all of those other characters, Ahsoka LEFT the Order before it was destroyed and before she officially completed her training and never rejoined it. Kanan never left it at all, it was just destroyed around him (the same is true for Cal Kestis from the Jedi games). And he does TECHNICALLY get Knighted by Yoda during Rebels and takes on a Padawan, hallmarks of a Jedi Knight. Ezra and Luke never had an Order to join to begin with, so their willingness to identify themselves as Jedi isn't dependent on having officially joined the right organization so much as it is about having learned from someone else who identifies as a Jedi and being told their training is complete. Both Ezra and Luke kind-of reach that point with Kanan and Yoda, so they never question their identity as Jedi.

Ahsoka is in the VERY unique position of having not been a Jedi OFFICIALLY when the Order was destroyed, which leaves her in slightly more limbo than most others. She HAD the ability to rejoin it before it was destroyed, she just didn't, and now she has to kind-of move away from the idea of needing to be a part of the Order before she can call herself a real Jedi. She also never has a master tell her she's done with training. In both Kanan and Cal's cases, their masters died to protect them and so someone else (Yoda and Cere) has to step in to finish the job. For Ahsoka, her master is STILL ALIVE, he's just now a Sith and is trying to kill her. Nobody steps in to try to finish the job he started with Ahsoka (nor does Ahsoka really ever seem that open to it). This ALSO leaves her in a little bit of limbo in a way nobody else is.

So I'm generally willing to sort-of re-interpret her choosing not to identify as a Jedi within this context to make it less about feeling like she's better than all the other Jedi and more that she feels STUCK in how to get back to that identity in a way nobody else is. Just because she still meditates and tries to help people doesn't make her officially a Jedi when she intentionally left the Order for a reason. She chose to stop being a Jedi for a reason. In the Prequels Era, just being a kind Force sensitive person didn't make you a Jedi, so it works for me that Ahsoka would insist that she ISN'T one for a while, even when she looks a lot like one to an outside perspective. I could even see a more Jedi positive narrative taking the fact that she still acts and thinks like a Jedi in an interesting direction for her.

It's easier to utilize that interpretation in Rebels where Ahsoka is GENERALLY more positive about the Jedi and, despite not really identifying as one herself, she seems fine with getting lumped in as a Jedi along with Kanan and Ezra. She intentionally seeks Kanan and Ezra out for "Jedi stuff" once or twice during season 2. She ONLY brings out the "I'm no Jedi" line when Anakin throws the Jedi (and the fact that she'd left the Order) in her face during their confrontation before he's explicitly revealed to be Anakin (which means Ahsoka can still pretend he's NOT Anakin and be angry that this is the person who KILLED Anakin instead). She seems like she might be on the path towards becoming a Jedi again by following these two people who are slightly further ahead on that path than she is (and then she sees Anakin as Vader and she gets blown right off of that path all over again apparently). Ahsoka isn't the main character of Rebels and the entire narrative is about Ezra and Kanan coming together as teacher and student to become true Jedi by learning compassion and selflessness via sacrifice. Ahsoka can't overshadow or outshine the two main characters by making her seem BETTER than the two characters who are explicitly learning to become Jedi by emulating Prequels Jedi, which is helping her.

It's HARDER to utilize this interpretation within something like, say, the Ahsoka show, where it's absolutely clear that its take on the Jedi is NEGATIVE. Sabine calls herself a Jedi, other people call her a Jedi, but Ahsoka explicitly states that she doesn't want Sabine to be a Jedi AT ALL and never identifies as one herself. She calls the Jedi failures and implies that it's because they were elitist. She and Sabine constantly refuse to abide by Huyang's standard Jedi protocols and seem to see them as useless and old-fashioned. There isn't a SINGLE thing about the Jedi that is represented as positive in this show, which makes it decidedly difficult to pretend that Ahsoka is refusing to identify as a Jedi simply because she's in a particular emotional limbo about it that she needs to work out. Instead, Ahsoka refuses to identify as a Jedi because she associates being a Jedi with being an elitist asshole apparently and might only start reclaiming the title when she decides that she can sort-of... be a new kind of Jedi that's better than the old ones (not unlike what Baylan claims to be doing with Shin). It's DECIDEDLY anti Jedi in tone and I'm generally unwilling to try to rework the entire fucked up narrative of the show to try to pretend that it isn't. The Ahsoka show is an explicitly anti Jedi narrative and that's just... the facts of the matter. It sucks, but it's true. It's not worth me putting in any more work than that.

I haven't read the Ahsoka novel, so I don't know whether its tone is closer to Rebels or the Ahsoka show. If it feels to you closer to how the Ahsoka show landed, my advice would be to just purge it from your canon. That's the nice thing about Star Wars, you can pick and choose what's canon to you and what isn't. If it doesn't work for you, you can straight up pretend it doesn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, the Ahsoka show never happened. It's stupid and doesn't deserve to be considered within my canon. If, however, it feels closer to how Rebels ended up, my advice is to see if you can find some way to re-interpret some of the more Jedi critical pieces or just pretend THOSE parts don't exist and separate it out from the parts you DO enjoy.

#star wars #ek johnston #ahsoka novel #ahsoka tano #jedi #pro jedi #ahsoka critical #ahsoka tano critical #star wars rebels #anti ahsoka show #ahsoka show critical #ahsoka show

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aubins · 4 days

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⧼ ＊ ⧽　on aubin, his crest, and the fetters of dromi.

this post is mostly my personal masterlist on my meta and headcanons for any aubin, crest, and relic related lore. some of it i pull from evidence in canon, others i pull out of my ass. i do discuss some of the other apostles while talking about aubin, but any future ashen wolves musers are more than welcome to disagree with me. additionally, it's been a while since i've properly played through the fódlan games myself, so if there's lore i've misremembered here, do feel free to correct me on it!

three houses & hopes lore spoilers to follow under the cut.

*　who is aubin?

i've been working on this on and off for about four years now, so the old version of this section quite obviously dated this post with all its long-winded arguments about why aubin was the elder that saved yuri as a child because some people were quite adamant that he wasn't. now, it is comically short in comparison.

in case you didn't know, this silly little game called fire emblem warriors: three hopes has come out since then and made my life much easier. as seteth and yuri's support chain confirms:

Seteth: You always cursed the blood that flowed through you. But in the end, it saved that child's life. Seteth: It brings me great relief to know that you found salvation in your last moments. Aubin, my friend… Be at peace. 　— Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes, Seteth & Yuri A-Support

the elder who saved yuri as a child was, in fact, aubin himself. he passes shortly after this from natural causes, which i'll touch on in more detail a bit later. the basic rundown of his character is this: aubin was one of the four apostles who participated in the rite of rising in an attempt to resurrect the goddess. after the ritual failed, he and his fellow apostles went into seclusion and their names were all but erased from history. their crests were similarly believed to have died with them; however, the four ashen wolves are later discovered to bear one of each of the apostles' crests. for yuri's part, he bears the crest of aubin.

*　the apostles' nabatean heritage.

another point of contention is whether or not the apostles are nabatean or human. the fandom wiki has them listed as human for some reason, even though this is not confirmed anywhere in the game as far as i am aware, and i know many believe that the apostles are first generation crest-bearers like the ten elites. personally, i am of the mind that they are nabateans, not humans.

the game refers to the four apostles as saints several times (in the opening narration of cindered shadows and in constance and edelgard's support chain), a title we've only really seen bestowed upon nabateans such as the four saints—cichol, cethleann, indech, and macuil—as well as seiros herself, of course.

(there is also a saint luca mentioned in a readable in three hopes; however, it is, to my knowledge, the only mention of them.)

additionally, we see for ourselves that aubin, at least, is able to transfuse his blood and crest into a human. as far as we know, this is something that can only be done by nabateans.

but there are two points i tend to see brought up as arguments for the apostles being human, so i wanted to quickly touch on them here.

　　›　THE FETTERS OF DROMI EXISTED DURING THE WAR OF HEROES.

this notion, i believe, comes from something that duke gerth says during constance and yuri's paralogue:

Duke Gerth: It's a priceless treasure that ended up in Dagda. After the truce, they sent it to us in friendship. 　> Why did Dagda have a Hero's Relic? Duke Gerth: One story holds that Saint Seiros subjugated the 10 Elites and the clans who followed them. Duke Gerth: There may have been a few clan elders who fled across the sea to escape suppression. 　— Fire Emblem: Three Houses, A Cursed Relic: After Battle

if we take this at face value, it means that the fetters of dromi existed during the time of the war of heroes (32-98). thus, the original nabatean bearing aubin blood would have to already be dead by this point. if this is true, it completely negates the idea of aubin being said original nabatean because he is very much still alive in 185 for the rite of rising.

i'm not exactly jumping to believe this story is actually true, though. the way duke gerth puts it, it's only one of several stories about how the relic arrived in dagda and not entirely reliable. if the fetters of dromi existed during the war of heroes, then it would have had a wielder: a human bearer of the crest that we're assuming is aubin. supposing the clan elder who followed aubin fled to dagda with the relic as duke gerth's story says, surely they would have known the value of the relic? never mind how they even took the relic from aubin to begin with. these were significant and powerful weapons and accessories used by the ten elites—if they managed to run away with one, surely they would have done their best to keep it for themselves, and then within their families after they passed.

but let's just say this important message got lost amongst the clan elder's descendants somewhere, so they see the fetters of dromi and decide it's a piece of junk they can get rid of. did the agarthans not know that the fetters of dromi were in dagda by this point? like surely there would have been some word that a group ran off with one of the relics when it first happened? it couldn't have been that hard for the agarthans to get it back if they knew it was there. they wouldn't have even had to contend with the church of seiros, because they didn't seem to know where the relic was either until it ended up in duke gerth's hands. so, word of the “marvelous, but benign treasure” in dagda just somehow didn't reach either parties' notice when they were well-aware of the missing relic?

suffice to say, i don't really buy duke gerth's story, and certainly not as hard evidence disproving the apostles being nabatean. for a relic to have been missing for so long with neither the agarthans nor the church seeming desperate to find it doesn't seem super realistic to me. to me, it seems more likely that the fetters of dromi were only newly created, and thus their disappearance only a recent concern.

　　›　AUBIN'S ELDERLY APPEARANCE & PASSING.

with the nabateans being a long-life species and the ones we see in canon still appearing quite youthful, i can understand where this sentiment comes from. unless aubin is just incredibly old in comparison to the likes of rhea, seteth, and flayn, he probably shouldn't be looking anywhere near old enough for yuri to be describing him as an elder when they meet.

for me to explain my take on this, let's talk about the rite of rising first.

In the Imperial year 185, the construction of Garreg Mach was completed. Saint Seiros held a sacred ritual to honor the occasion. Four saints, known as the Four Apostles, were led to a tranquil place to perform the ritual. They poured their holy essences into the Chalice of Beginnings—a gift from the goddess herself—in hopes of bringing about her second coming. Alas, the Rite of Rising failed… 　— Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Cindered Shadows: The Fourth House

the opening narration of cindered shadows describes the rite of rising as the four apostles “pouring their holy essences into the chalice.” while this is likely just a fancy way of saying they gave it their blood, i'm choosing to instead interpret this as the apostles having literally given up some of their essence or life force for the ritual. the sacrifice they made was more than just some blood, and whether the rite succeeded or failed, it was always going to take its toll. the fact that it did failed only exacerbated the consequences.

when the chalice absorbs both sitri and aelfric to create an umbral beast, rhea says that the same thing happened last time the rite of rising was performed. as the ritual was said to have been performed in a tranquil place, presumably away from any bystanders, the only people around to actually become the umbral beast would have been seiros herself, alongside the four apostles.

what mostly makes me hesitate to say this for certain is that the description of the final battle in cindered shadows describes aelfric as “forever lost, transformed into an umbral beast.” the four apostles were, obviously, not forever lost, considering the existence of all four ashen wolves bearing their crests.

perhaps the beast was subdued and the apostles were somehow reverted to their regular forms. or the chalice only absorbed the body they were using for the ritual to create the umbral beast, and that was what was forever lost upon its defeat. since i can't say either way with a hundred percent confidence, i'm just going to elect to put a pin in this particular idea for now.

whatever the case, the rite of rising took a significant and long lasting toll on the apostles well-being. as such, after the failure of the rite, all of them chose to vanish from the world. despite how important you would think an attempt to revive the goddess would be, what is remembered of them is that they journeyed to obscure corners of fódlan where they settled and all but disappeared from history.

you could say that this was them adhering to the fact that they were not meant to pass down their crests, and thus decided to find a place where they could simply fade into obscurity for the rest of their days. however, considering all of them end up passing down their crests anyway, i don't think this was their biggest point of consideration.

for aubin's case, this is what i attribute his older appearance to. the rite of rising quite literally stole his life and aged him significantly more than what would have been natural for nabateans. he goes into seclusion because he doesn't have the energy to do much else, having lost most of his strength. similarly, this i believe this lack of strength is also the reason that he dies shortly after saving yuri's life.

aubin is in awful shape when yuri and his mother take him in. i imagine he never truly recovered from the toll the rite of rising took on his body, leaving him quite worse for wear. saving yuri required expending a kind of power that he simply didn't have much left of, and was the final straw that ultimately led to his passing.

*　the crest of aubin.

honestly, i think the way i've described the crest of aubin's effects in narrative previously changed whenever it was convenient to me HAHA but in the interest of staying consistent from this point forward, let's refer to its in-game effects first.

A Crest long lost to history. Occasionally prevents enemy counterattacks when using a weapon. 　— Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Crest of Aubin Ability Description

30% chance chance to land a critical hit with strong attacks. 　— Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes, Crest of Aubin Ability Description

three houses and three hopes are very different games when it comes to gameplay, so the crest's ability obviously changes between them. i'll pull from both versions for my purposes.

preventing enemy counterattacks doesn't really translate all that nicely into writing. i generally interpret this as increased agility. passively, yuri is already relatively light-footed and quick on his feet; when his crest activates this is increased to a superhuman degree. think dramatic cinematic shots of characters with super speed where the world slows around them. something like that for short periods of time.

crit chance is much easier to translate: his crest gives him increased strength. unlike his agility, this isn't also a passive thing. the strength only really activates when his crest does, otherwise he's just as strong as anyone else who works out on a relatively regular basis would be.

as aubin is the ice dragon, yuri has some level of resistance to cold. nothing that would really save his life if you threw him into a blizzard, but if the weather's a bit chilly, he'll still be able to walk out under-dressed for it and be fine. yuri doesn't think this is a crest thing, though, he just thinks he's more used to the cold as someone that grew up in faerghus.

unnaturally quick healing. this has no canon basis, it's just an idea that i like. yuri is very particular about his appearance and potential scarring considering his line of work, but considering all the trouble he gets into, saying that he's only ever gotten one scar in his whole life isn't all that realistic. magic blood making you heal fast isn't all that realistic either, but the two can just cancel each other out or something.

in a similar vein, he requires less rest than most people. considering the nature of his work, yuri is running around basically 24/7. if he rests, it's probably only for a few hours at most. guy's a control freak and incredibly restless—i don't know if he could ever really settle down comfortably for long enough to get a decent night's sleep, but he has to be able to be everywhere all at once without collapsing from exhaustion somehow.

　　›　YURI'S PROLONGED LIFESPAN.

i didn't realize this was a point of contention to some people until i started poking around more online, but i'm always happy to talk about yuri so let's dissect it. why not.

in non-crimson flower routes, yuri's ending with m!byleth says that the pair lives a very long life together:

[ ... ] Constantly at his side during that time was his husband, Yuri, whose policy proposals led, time and again, to better education and opportunities for the less fortunate. After working to ensure a bright and prosperous future for Fódlan, the couple stepped back from the public eye and vanished from official record. Curiously, informal notes and letters from friends suggest that the pair was extraordinarily long-lived and that their youth was untouched by the passage of time. 　— Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Byleth (Male) & Yuri Ending Card

i've seen people argue this is a byleth thing (as in byleth gave yuri a blood transfusion and that's why he's long-lived) which i personally doubt is true. mainly because f!byleth's ending doesn't mention a word of this and i don't see why it wouldn't if it truly was a byleth thing as opposed to a yuri thing.

i've also seen people argue that this can't be true because he is specifically mentioned to pass away in his ending with constance:

After the war, Constance devoted herself to her magical research. Her unorthodox methods allowed her to make great strides, which earned her acclaim and eventually enabled her to restore her noble house. Afterward, almost as if to spite her detractors, she married Yuri. The pair made a happy, if unconventional, couple, as the husband frequently ventured away for months on end. In the long years of their marriage, however, Constance laughed off any concerns—she was known to say that Yuri always knew how to find his way home. Many decades later, he passed away in bed alongside his beloved wife. 　— Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Constance & Yuri Ending Card

maybe they just lived their very long lives together? who knows how long ‘many decades’ really means, after all. except constance will likely just live a very normal crest-bearer lifespan. unlike yuri, she doesn't actually get her crest via blood transfusion. saint noa left to live the rest of her days in what would later become nuvelle territory and had children. constance's crest is inherited, passed down to her by bloodline.

Constance: Close to a thousand years ago, Saint Noa parted ways with Saint Seiros. She lived out her days in seclusion on what would become Nuvelle territory. Constance: Her children obscured their origins before serving the Empire. It wasn't long before they were ennobled. [...] Edelgard: Hmm… House Nuvelle was known for producing as few heirs as possible. Edelgard: It was also known for keeping its offspring "pure," mostly by disallowing marriage with other houses. 　— Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Constance & Edelgard B-Support

so if yuri's so long-lived, why do these two ending contradict each other? well, i don't really think they do. he dies in his ending with constance, yes, but we don't know what actually causes his death. i guess old age is the natural assumption for most people, but it never actually states that and we've already been given a different instance of him living for much longer than is natural for a human.

in the japanese version of their ending, the last sentence reads, “数十年後、その言葉を証明するかのように、ユーリスは寝台の上、愛した妻の傍らで病没したとされる。” to be clear, i don't speak a lick of japanese, so if any japanese speakers would like to tell me what this really says, i would forever be in your debt. but, you know, i squint at it anyway and see the character “病” and go :index_pointing_at_the_viewer: hey. hold on a second.

anyway, i checked the chinese text instead because it's the only other language the game's localized in that i can somewhat comprehend and what do you know? it says yuri dies of illness. so, you know. not old age.

at the same time, we know it's confirmed in lore that recipients of blood transfusions live longer lives.

To face this evil force, the goddess created a new well of power. She gifted certain chosen individuals with sacred blood, allowing them to wield mystical weapons, that they may prevail against the darkness. These souls, buoyed by their divine gifts, conquered the evil ones and drove them back to the north. They came to be known as Heroes. The Heroes experienced unnaturally long lives, persisting for hundreds of years. 　— Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes, Book of Seiros II

if you want proof that isn't just a readable in a spin-off game, jeralt is also right there and at least three hundred years old to show for it. we know through several sources that first generation crest-bearers live very long lives—there's no reason to believe that the same wouldn't apply to yuri.

*　the fetters of dromi.

ah, hero's relic lore. how i adore you, horrifying as you are and all.

before we talk about it somehow ending up in dagda, let's just talk about the relic itself. in case you haven't seen it, the fetters of dromi are effectively hand, finger, and wrist bones bound together by what looks like some cloth, chains, and rings.

once again, i'll pull up its in-game effects for reference:

Grants +1 Movement and Canto when equipped. Grants Pavise and Aegis to units with the Crest of Aubin when equipped. 　— Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Fetters of Dromi Description

+6 Speed. Grants Earthshrinker to user. Grants Pavise and Aegis to units with the Crest of Aubin when equipped. 　— Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes, Fetters of Dromi (Unleashed) Description

Enables 【Canto (２)】. At start of turn, unit can move 1 extra space (that turn only; does not stack). After start-of-turn skills trigger, if 【Stall】 is active on unit, neutralizes the "unit can move 1 extra space" effect of this skill. Inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-4 on foes within 2 spaces of unit during combat. 　— Fire Emblem Heroes, Fetters of Dromi Description

unlike the crest of aubin, the fetters of dromi's effects are relatively consistent across its different iterations. it gives the user canto, increased movement, and pavise and aegis.

the fetters of dromi's purpose is primarily to amplify the crest of aubin's effects.

increased movement and canto similarly just translate into increased agility again, improved from its passive effect when yuri isn't actively using the fetters. it will take a lot for him to feel exhausted while wearing the fetters of dromi, but if he overextends himself, it'll still hit him the moment he takes the relic off.

similarly related to the crest allowing yuri to persist on less rest, the fetters of dromi allows him to take more hits and sustain more damage. he still gets hurt, of course, but he feels it less than he would without the relic. as with the previous point, when he takes them off, the weight of his injuries will still hit him as they normally would unless he had them healed beforehand.

　　›　HOW DID IT END UP IN DAGDA?

let's establish a timeline for its creation first.

the illness yuri contracts as a child is specifically the plague that was going around faerghus. according to sylvain, this plague happened almost 20 years ago, and according to yuri, he caught it when he was really young. excellent measures of time, the both of you.

i tend to place yuri as having been four when he caught it. since aubin passed shortly after curing him, he would have died vaguely around 1164-1165. the fetters of dromi would have made it to dagda by 1175 at the latest, since that's when the dagda and brigid war took place, and they would've had to have it by then to send it over after the truce. the fetters of dromi were likely made sometime between 1165-1175, then.

but how did the agarthans find out that aubin was dead? yuri ends up in adrestia sometime during this ten year period when the fetters of dromi could have been made. considering the agarthan presence in the empire, i suppose the most likely scenario is that they somehow discovered this random kid with the crest of aubin and decided to investigate further. this eventually led them to yuri's hometown, from which it wouldn't have been difficult to learn from the townsfolk of the story of a strange man who came by a few years ago, saved a child's life with some red liquid, then passed shortly after.

from there, they dig up the body, take the bones and crest stone, then craft the fetters of dromi. as for how it ended up in dagda...um. you know, i'd love to find this out myself HAHA but i can't even conceive a situation for what happened here. i guess they lost it somehow? a bit silly but it had to get there in some way.

　　›　MISCELLANEOUS.

a relic like the fetters of dromi is too new and obscure to have any heavy history or mythology behind it. but there are still some tales—tall and false ones, certainly—like the story of the fetters that reached duke gerth's ears.

some say it is the hand of a master swordsman, cut off in battle and preserved afterward. whoever has the courage to wear it upon the back of their own will find their sword always strikes true. others believe that the relic is a sign that the heroes of history still walk among them, waiting for the day they must once again take up arms to fight for fódlan.

and some still believe that it is both a warning and a curse. that should you hear tell of it, you'll have to lock your home up tight and light a blazing fire, for merciless winter storms are sure to follow.

yuri doesn't believe any of the stories. but what he does know is that sometimes, when he finds himself so lost in his own head that the real world vanishes, bone so often cold to the touch will warm without him calling upon its power, reminding him to return to earth.

sometimes, when he overexerts himself in the midst of battle, the activated relic's steady warmth instead turns searing like a scolding to mind himself. it tightens faintly over the back of his hand like the one that had gently guided him when he first learned his letters, now guiding the swing of a blade rather than the stroke of a pen.

but it is, in the end, just a hero's relic. so it must be his mind playing tricks.

#.𖥔 ݁ ˖　﹙　life goes more smoothly without a heart .　—meta & hc.　﹚#IT'S FINISHED I'M FREE #there might be typos in this please do not perceive them if so #this has literally been in my drafts for years it's not even funny #finally clocking it in at roughly 4k ish words though...jesus christ #the power of ‘i don't want to look at this paper i'm writing for uni anymore’ that fuels me to write far more for fire emblem meta LMFAO #i have a few other miscellaneous thoughts on the rite of rising & aubin's life after it failed #but those are mostly headcanons so i didn't feel like they fit here #if i've mistaken some lore here please don't tell me i'll actually cry #(/j please do actually tell me i will want to rethink and correct it)#anyway yeagh :crunchy: if someone reads all this i'm so sorry but thanks for sticking around HAHA

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olderthannetfic · 1 year

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A while back I got sucked into a fandom, and quickly sucked into the discourse surrounding it. A lot of the discourse surrounded race and racism.

I am the race from which one of the main characters was from. I've studied the the history surrounding the time period. I still am, and will continue to do so for the rest of my life. This history and culture has been my life both personally and academically. I posting meta that included sources on multiple occasions and wrote long posts about my experiences and opinions, and made it clear that those were personal takes. My stance was obvious, but I mentioned repeatedly I didn't expect everyone to agree with me. I wanted people to listen to in addition to the loud and furious group of nearly exclusively white anti-racist big name fans.

By and large the fandom didn't care. I deleted quickly. I was constantly getting messages calling me racist and a pick me. I was called a rapist. I was called a terrorist. It went on and on. At the start I saw it in a more academic way, but that didn't last long.

I DM'd people frequently, but none of the anti-racist warriors listened to a thing I said even when they claimed to want to see my side. I was not the only one this happened to. Another user made far more posts than I did, and received worse harassment. I am sure there are more I don't know about. I finally DM'd someone who claimed to be from my country. They never got back to me and the harassment ramped up exponentially the next day. I don't know if that's connected, but considering they have since been revealed as faking their race, I wouldn't be surprised.

I deleted. I stopped using tumblr and AO3, and stopped talked to everyone involved. I deleted my discord, and ghosted anyone I contacted otherwise. They'd won, because I wouldn't cope with it anymore. I lost friends over this, but given the amount of harassment, I don't think there was anything else I could have done.

I remade a tumblr for another fandom, and took a look at what was going on. I saw posts calling me a pick me again, as well as a swath of people citing my posts and talking highly of them. But I saw an alarming amount of people saying I wasn't a real person. The claims where that I was made up by some white person (or a group of them) to further their racism. These claims were, from what I could glean, from white people and only white people. The same ones who said they wanted to fight racism in fandom themselves. I guess you can only support POC if they bow to what you want.

A lot of these people used Stitch as a gotcha. They all used pseudo academic talking points to beat on others. People were harassed constantly on AO3 and tumblr over stoping racism in fandom. Funnily enough, us POC were targeted constantly unless we agreed with them.

Excuse me if I don't have any faith in this new anti racist movement, not when it echoes what I've seen before.

I've been on the receiving end of the effort to "make fandom safe". It resulted in a mental health crisis. I'm an adult with solid mental health and an incredible support system outside of fandom. Had I been a teenager things would have been much different.

Man, I hope this is The Old Guard, but I fear that it isn't.

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drifting-pieces-blog-blog · 1 month

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Yeah honestly the discourse is quite stressful... I don't interact with the fandom and I'm quite new to MK, and I'm pretty young so the only mainstream MK thing I've been exposed to is the show (I did read the Lemire run though, planning on reading the Jed Mackay run soon) and while I do have some of my own complicated thoughts on the show, I do sometimes feel bad for liking the characters and the show in general as much as I do because alot of fans of the comics seem to hate it lololol. I like the shows version Steven espeacially, I really love how grounded and fun he is (people seem to dislike him too tho aha) Your blog truly is Autism heaven thank you so much for putting as much effort into this as you do :-)

Boy howdy you gave me a lot to think about.

What part of Tumblr you been hanging out in? Let me tell you the secret to enjoying Moon Knight: Stay out of the discourse. Moon Knight discourse is not new and just cycles the same topics over and over and over again and have done so since the OG run in the comics.

You are allowed to like BOTH the comic and the show. Who gives a flip what someone else thinks about it? I got to listen to someone rant about how much they hated the show because it wasn't full of action and crazy and violence (they were wrong and like Moon Knight for all the wrong reasons and are the type of fan that gets on my nerves but at least they are reading Moon Knight, I guess?)

The show is a fantastic jumping on point for new and younger fans! Why? Because even though the majority of the main points of the story are different, and Steven Grant is different, it still hits the big points that make Moon Knight what it is.... That and Marc is and always will be a Dumpster Fire in every iteration.

PLUS, Steven Grant is adorable and love-able and really draws you in. Do not feel bad for liking the characters in the show. The fans of the comics who actively put down the TV show characters have no idea what they are talking about. Do they HAVE to like them? No. You are welcome to hate the show, but if you hate it for reasons of saying it isn't enough like the comics...They CLEARLY have not read the comics.

LET'S GET INTO THIS META:

The original run of the comics opens with Moench having the idea for one man living three undercover lives.

Steven Grant, millionaire philanthropist, and Charity giver.

Jake Lockely, street wise cab driver and friend to the people.

Moon Knight, a masked vigilante.

Notice how Marc Spector is not included in that. In the original idea, Marc Spector was a man on the run from himself and doing what he can to discard who he was and become someone better and different so as to make up for all the pain and wrong that he had done.

So in the OG, we get a BIT of Marc to tell his back story of how he 'died' and then we jump into Steven and Jake. A little later, Moench starts to flesh out Marc a bit, putting him into more stories with his side short stories about Marc's past and also when they go into missions that pit Marc directly against who he was and his past. Such as when the Statue is stolen and broken and he has a break down (severe existential crisis about his death and who he is). The BEST look into his past where he confronts who he was, in my opinion is when a friend from Marc's past is murdered and he goes to Israel on a special mission and for revenge. Issue 17: Master Sniper's Legacy and Issue 18: The Slayers Elite.

The thing is, Marc isn't the main character in the early OG comics. He's a presence that is always felt and often discussed and lurking in the shadows, but the main star is Moon Knight

and the character we often follow the MOST is Jake Lockley.

We also hang a lot with Steven.

Marc Spector is The Bad Guy.

Yes... Despite how every time we get a back story like the "Marc Spector Adventures" mini comic that was at the end of a few issues showing us how goofy and conflicted Marc Spector really is, he's still the bad guy...To himself. No one hates Marc Spector more than Marc Spector.

This is something that carried very well into the show.

(That is the face of a man that doesn't want to be there. Or anywhere.)

You see, Marc Spector isn't the main character of the show either. Steven Grant is.

So... Here's the BIG question.

WHY did Marc Spector become so big in the comics?

Back in the OG run, Jake Lockley and Steven Grant were the main characters. But it's hard to relate to the fancy million air that likes fine things and opera and charity events and swimming around in his pool in a speedo.)

But Jake Lockley? There's a man we can enjoy and relate to. He likes to hang with the homeless. Chat it up with some kids and play Basket Ball with them. He hangs with a single mom in the poor side of town and he drives around and takes action. He's easy to understand and easy to paint as a good honest man and a hero.

In the show? The show was ORIGINALLY going to take it from Marc's point of view. Marc was the one in the fancy Mr. Knight suit (like in the later comics drawn by the amazing Declan Shalvey.) My bet is that in the original idea for the show, Moon Knight was filled with more action and violence.

But they realized they needed to draw you in. They needed to give you someone you could relate to.

Enter Steven Grant.

(Hello dear).

I will forever be asking the question on why they went with Steven Grant and not Jake Lockley because the gentle kind and caring man in the comics is Jake... But maybe the name Steven Grant just fit the role they needed better. Either way... We got this marshmallow of sweet snarky sass.

And the personality? We can thank Oscar Isaac for Steven. He came up with the accent and had a lot of input on how to develop Steven as a character. The story naturally progressed from there.

So this is where the show and comics deviates. ....Or dose it?

Because after Moench leaves, the characters start to change.

We hit the 90s and Marc Spector, man of violence and action and dark pasts is now in and Steven Grant is out. Oh, and so is Jake.

We get a solid decade of watching Marc devolve into a disaster of character murder. It's... It's a thing alright. It's a rough read. My goal in going back through the comics is to try to pinpoint the exact moment when the characters are lost from their original personalities and Jake is turned into a violent insane Caricature of himself, Steven got the boot, and Marc became the overarching main persona.

Even in the 2000s up to 2010, Moon Knight characterization is all over the place!

It isn't until Lemire that we get a solid hold of someone trying to bring the characters back to who they were during Moench's run. Even then, it's a rough grab and by the next writer (we shall not speak of him here) we have completely lost all view of the characters again.

We don't get a redefinition of Jake, Steven, and Marc until the current run with MacKay.

This is 1984 until 2021 people! HOLY CRAP.

In fact, things got so bad in the 90s that Moench had to step in for 4 short issues to try to reset Marc Spector! (I cannot wait to get to those.)

So people that tell you that the show completely ruined the characters.... Clearly have not REALLY read the comics. In fact, ask them what their favorite run is. Give me a good laugh because I can probably guess what they are going to say.

The people that are more modern and sing praise only of MacKay need to get off their high horse and go read some Moench. I love MacKay and will sing his praise all day, but he isn't perfect. I love Lemire, but he also had some issues. Heck, even Moench had issues fleshing out his own characters at times! (and there certainly were a couple of issues that are NOT my favorites at all). Heck, I think the best fleshing out of Marc Spector was actually done by Zelenetz in the death of Elias Spector run. (I may have made a huge mistake while reviewing this run because I thought it was Moench and then realized it wasn't half way through reviewing all the other issues and then sat there for a day wondering why I was an idiot and what to do about it.)

SO. ....I'm not sure if I made my point or got distracted halfway through, but I hope I made some sense here.

The thing is, the characterization of Moon Knight depends on the writer and there is no real set thing to go on other than the fact that Marc Spector is a dumpster fire of a man. If that fire ain't burning in the shittiest way possible, they are doing it wrong.

And anyone with discourse saying the show ruined everything needs to mind their own business. I have no issue with someone hating the show. It's different. But don't tell other people they can't like it and the comics too.

They have obviously never lived through the Moon Knight waste land times when there were like five fans and no merchandise or material. I'm just happy to be able to talk about Moon Knight to someone that isn't my dog for a change.

So thank you kind Annon! Thank you for giving me someone to talk to Moon Knight with and reason to talk about them! And thank you all for listening to me ramble and rant about a little broken system of guys who have gotten the unfair shaft from Marvel more than a few times.

#Ask away #Talk to me about Moon Knight #Moon Knight Meta #Don't tell people they can't enjoy something #Moon Knight discourse is old and cheap #If you want real discourse you should ask about if Captain America is a symbol of America or not #Do not ask me about Captain America #Moon Knight

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presiding · 1 year

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What is your favourite thing about Billie Lurk?

(Answers are obvious possibly but i love when people talk about her👍)

thanks for the ask!! YEAH ME TOO I love when people talk about Billie! I can't say I have a favourite thing specifically, but I can explain why she's my fav. apologies for not taking this qn literally, but -

short answer: she’s really cool

& you can stop reading there, or, for the maybe 2 mutuals who might have time to read this my thoughts on her as a character, her meta, and her character as raw potential...

long answer:

i considered making this entire thing a gush so you could read a gush about Billie. but, part of what draws me to her is that she’s not always well written, and in fandom she’s underrated for a literal protagonist.

since you ask...

billie is a cool character

when I played Dh2 (hadn't played Dh1), I was excited to see a black woman with disabilities who was captaining a massive ship by herself. wow.

then I discovered Billie’s backstory with Deirdre, the way she responded to that, then having to survive while living on the run, and her bisexuality. as well as her history with daud & delilah. fascinating!

she’s an outsider who has so much to lose, and knows what it's like to lose everything - having lost everything not once but three times - but nevertheless speaks truth to power. she's so brave! she went and helped Emily & Corvo and she must have known they might kill her! plus, she’s smart, she’s funny, she gets shit done, she’s gorgeous.

but... the meta

mild critique of fandom & arkane incoming.

skip this bit if you want - you've been warned twice now - jump to tired Hayao Miyazaki and read from there if you'd like my thoughts on writing her.

i thought Death of the Outsider was going to be amazing and then... well. *sad trombone* i've written about that before so i won't keep banging on. i figured others must be disappointed too, so I joined a few fandom spaces in hopes of finding camaraderie.

most people with complaints about DotO didn’t like how the Outsider and Daud were handled. which is valid & I agree. but it seemed like most paid no attention to Billie; when people talk about her it’s with respect to Daud, as opposed to in her own right. you could argue for fandom misogyny because people don’t talk about adult Emily Kaldwin that much either, but in Billie's case, it’s misogynoir (compare & contrast with the popularity of thomas, particularly the popularity of thomas portrayed as a white man for no particular reason that i've been able to discern - i keep asking around, is it in the books???).

i think this is a LOT better now than it used to be, which is fantastic. or perhaps i have found the correct echo-chamber? ha.

ultimately, The Fandom is a fraction of the entire picture, and not even the important bit since The Fandom is not who these games are made for. you can't make money relying on only your hardcore fans even if all of them spent a fortune on merch, this is true for any AAA game.

while it's true that Billie is underrated from a fandom perspective - but Billie as an underwritten protagonist is squarely Arkane’s fault.

it was reasonable when she was a side character - the lack of info in Dh2 makes perfect sense (if anything there was more lore in Dh2 which is kind of wild)-

- but as a protagonist in Death of the Outsider?

.... there’s lousy writing, and there’s whatever is going on with Billie Lurk, a black woman who mostly exists as a foil or saviour for light-skinned characters. In her own game there’s barely any of her own lore except where it's relevant to saving two dudes.

lore hints at, but barely touches on what race means in the Dh universe (xenophobia is stronger in Dh1; separate essay i guess), but Arkane has patted themselves on the back for portraying non-white characters, which feels like the same thing as the aesthetic of diversity we're seeing in advertising currently because it’s in marketing trend guides. it's self-congratulatory and it's a missed opportunity for deeper storytelling.

you can see an example of diversity at its most shallow in the way that Billie’s written: there’s little engagement with her as an entire person with history & wants & preferences, and the world she walks through in that game feels like it has nothing to do with her. you could make a case for alienation as a theme, but then, how do you handle the titular premise of 'Dishonored' without ever letting Billie make changes in an environment without a chaos system? it's disappointing from that angle too.

in my opinion, whatever it's worth, it was an accident Arkane created such an awesome character - they needed someone to betray daud. congrats billie.

all this said, it makes her an underdog as far as characters to enjoy & create art & stories for. it's nice to find so many like-minded, switched on people! <3

billie's character potential

she’s got a wealth of unexplored lore, being deeply intertwined with both Karnaca & Dunwall’s fates & criminal underbellies, as well as her connections to the witches & whalers, and three Empresses.

she’s lived a few distinct lifetimes and in the games we get to meet her at two peaks (KoD & DotO) & a low (Dh2 as Meagan).

her voice is very distinct, her dry & often dark humour is entertaining & fun to write. her perspective is really interesting - she’s had the widest variety of void-powers of anyone canonically, and she’s also lived through the highest highs and lowest lows.

she's got everything going for her :) i couldn't really pick a fav thing!

#i assume my followers are cool enough to let me give a brief measured critique on fandom trends and DotO #thanks for the anon question!! what fun!#i love billie lurk <333 #jumped on the opportunity to rant n rave #what part of billie isn't my fav! (im a guy who likes the bad stuff too. mmm interesting meta)#trying to be not unfair or mean- i'm not targeting anyone but rather trends. and it's ok to be disappointed with something you love #fuck it. make it part of the appeal! her writing sucks! plenty of room for me & other creators!#its easier for me to indulge my billie brainworms when it sorta feels like she's not getting as much love as she deserves #you know? i want stories where her history is explored and her agency is important so i guess i'll roll up my sleeves #tumblr is a terrible place for this sort of critique IMO- lots of nuanceless empathy-free guilt-trip-ish rhetoric #so i hope i avoided that. but not so much that i seem forgiving.#that said i'm not tagging this one with fandom tags! no thank you.#i am blaming arkane yes. but that is also not without games industry context #i could complain about amateurish writing but that also never happens in a vacuum. industry problem(s) for sure.#people love to blame writers for things #and yeah a couple really fucking good writers can push a boulder uphill #but its usually a company problem #hire lots of diverse people in your company. give them authority and respect and reasonable workloads. and no crunch.#ah fuck this is a separate essay in tags. again #THIS WAS A SIMPLE QUESTION #*clutches head in hands*#uh if you're still reading at this point im SO sorry and thank you and i love you

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scorpio-karma · 5 months

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Do you have any Unpopular vampire diaries opinions ?

I would honestly argue that all of my opinions of TVD are unpopular but that's simply because I don't like the show and hate like half the characters. Also the part of Fandom I participate in, the Bonnie Fandom, has similar feelings so what is considered an unpopular opinion there is a very different metric. As I've pointed out in some responses, we have completely divorced ourselves from canon, so a lot of things put out narratively in canon that most of the Fandom follows even with their AU's is completely out the window. I, and a lot of my mutuals, basically only seek to improve on the small bots we liked as a way to heal the trauma the show left us with.

So with that as our basis this is what I'd consider my unpopular opinions.

Kol is irrelevant as far as Originals go and I don't ship Kennett. This is one I stay mostly silent about because a) it was always a crack ship and b) I genuinely think it wouldn't be as popular of a Bonnie ship had Plec not brought them into an argument unprompted, but most of all I can't find it in me to care about the character enough even read in fics. I did a rewatch of the show to see if there were just episodes I missed where he was more prevalent than I remembered and nope. I didn't watch TO, so the idea of having to go to a whole different show to get the characterization of a character for a ship doesn't appeal to me. Do I think Kennett fans were done dirt by Kolvina? Yes, but that's a pattern with all of her ships going all the way back to season 1 and Tonnie shippers, so it ends up low on my list of grievances.

Bamon could have been a good ship. Now this is more of something unpopular with my main Fandom, Bonkai as it is her most popular ship at least quantity-wise, but it's mainly unpopular because most of us can't stand Damon. I will say, he's not even in my top ten favorite characters but I do love the natural chemistry between them and if they had followed a more logical route in season one they would have been at the very least interacting more in season 1 since his entire plan hinged on Bonnie and he literally tried to accomplish that by not speaking to her once...

There are some staple tumblrs here that are kind of like an authority in the Fandom as in they've written a lot of metas that most Bonnie fans agree with. There's one that I started following when i first got here that I will not name (no need to actually bring them in and I honestly haven't checked their blog in years) that I disagree with most of their takes. While they are a fan of Bonnie and Bonkai, their metas rely a little too much on chemistry. While that's a big part of what attracts me and people to a ship I personally think there needs to be more because a lot of their examples involve a very subjective perspective. They mostly started following a whole different tvd ship that I don't like so I didn't read too much into their metas, but I realized I didn't care for the takes with the ship I liked so I stopped following them altogether.

The Bonkai Fandom isn't dead. While there's a significant decline in content, myself include, I don't think we can truly call it dead because there are still people making content and consuming that content. Fandoms need the source material to keep alive, at least in the sense where there's still events and regularly updated post, but to say something is dead just downplays the people still contributing and still consuming. We're now just in our quality-over-quantity phase because I guarantee other tvd ships churning our content everyday is going to be rough.

#bonnie bennett #asks #unpopular opinion #please don't take these as attacks #they are opinions about characters and tvd #not you

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jademickian · 11 months

Text

oh man, haven't done tag games in a while, sorry friends 🥹 i've been passive the last few weeks because uni is really taking most of my time and energy, but i appreciate the tags and i love love reading your answers<3

ok enough blabbering, thank u @callivich, @lingy910y, and @mickeysgaymom for the totally optional, fun gallavich questions tag!

What’s a fic you’ve read more than once?

Stuck at Three for Days - delicious banter, laughed my ass off

another kiss is all it takes - so fuckin sweet, dude

Like Real People Do - just finished my reread last month:)) i needed the comfort

Cooperative Gameplay - currently rereading! i miss the feels

Sometimes I reread bits and pieces from ORFNSP and since we're alone because they changed my brain chemistry. I will eventually get around to actually rereading them.

2. What’s a gifset you always have to reblog?

You know the one... this legendary world heritage gifset

3. What’s a headcanon you can’t stop thinking about?

not sure if this is counted but i always like to think that once, ian got struck with grief about monica's death on her death anniversary. mickey asks him what's wrong and he opens up about it. ian will say it's stupid but mickey will truly handle it with grace and say nah man it's not. because yahknow, he gets it. and ian melts at it, because no one has acknowledged his grief like this before. mickey teases him about it a bit, sure, but deep down he held ian's mourning warmly, like petals on his palm. and they went together to the cemetery that day, simply sat in front of her grave and talked. the good things, the bad. and that despite it all "hey, tleast she popped out an alien lookin mfer i ended up marryin." they get pizza after.

4. What’s a fanart you love looking at?

Van kiss by @lingy910y

Prince Mononoke by @darthvaders-wife

Prison Boyfriends by @gallavichonly

Part of Our World by @steorie

It's Okay by WhatsaMattavich

This Kiss by @deathclassic

SO MANY others actually if i could fit them all here

5. What’s an idea you’d love to create if you had the time/inspiration?

i actually have a LIST lmao. one of those has something to do with art because i cannot take my mind away from human mickey and manananggal ian (manananggal is a Philippine myth creature with wings and can separate the upper half of its body from its lower half).

6. What’s something you’ve discovered since entering this fandom? A new trope you love? A different analysis of the show? Something else?

oh man. believe it or not, i was never into fics. i was in fandoms before, but i just couldn't get into fics within those fandoms (i tried). this is the only time i truly liked and LOVED reading fics. it really speaks volumes about the talent and dedication, and i'm glad i got to experience it.

it's also fun reading metas on the show and getting different perspectives, especially on characters. one of my favorites (just because i was so distressed about it the first time i watched it) are analyses on the city hall scene and ian's hesitation on marriage. after reading up others' thoughts on it explaining the why's, i totally felt some relief and was able to get some sleep. lol

7. What’s an underrated trope or concept you’d like to see more of?

apocalypse aus 👍

8. What’s your favourite season? And has this changed after multiple rewatches of the show?

The first five seasons are gems to me. but i truly love season 2 because it's so chill (at least compared to some of the heavier seasons after) and the gallaghers move as a unit. special mention for season 4 because it holds Emily and Lazarus.

9. What’s a plot hole you wish had been answered or resolved?

same qualms with @mickeysgaymom about mickey's mom. brain rotting over it.

10. What scene or moment do you feel isn’t discussed enough?

not gallavich related, and i'm sure people have already mentioned it, but sometimes it hits me how smart debbie is. like, i know she's smart, but people easily forget from all the chaos. at the heart of it, she's a fast learner and also would and have excelled academically.

11. What line/dialogue/description from something else (a poem, a book, a tv show, a movie, or something else) do you feel describes Ian and Mickey’s relationship?

aaaa @lingy910y beat me to it! it's totally "I'll take care of you. / It's rotten work. / Not to me. Not if it's you." but if i could pick another, maybe "I could recognize him by touch alone, by smell; I would know him blind, by the way his breaths came and his feet struck the earth. I would know him in death, at the end of the world."

12. What do you think is next for Ian and Mickey post-finale?

they'll grow old together and be just as in love, no matter what happens in between.

tagging @mybrainismelted, @scurvgirl, and @lupeloto if u wanna join!! raahh

#now back to my lab sheets #jade jabbers #tag games

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