#btw if anybody happens to have any points to add or disagrees with something i mentioned feel free to add on as long as it's respectful

[justapitcherofwater]

oh boy oh boy analyses time :DDD

So I think I’m just gonna start with this; I think c!Badboyhalo may just be the most interesting villain I’ve ever encountered.

And he is definitely a villain, they make it abundantly clear that he is some sort of villain on the dream smp (at the very least he is a local menace with generally selfish intentions). He hardly ever gives anything without gaining something in return, he has all the aspirations for power and control and chaos, heck, that was the reason for the badlands in the first place, that was probably the reason why he originally followed the egg (before the thing with skeppy), because it promised all those things to him! A lot of his actions and motivations could actually be compared to c!Dream if it wasn’t for one small yet incredibly significant detail.

c!Badboyhalo is very very empathetic and compassionate.

Empathy is not a common villain trait. At all. In the slightest. It's actually usually associated with the hero, and seen as a weakness by the villain, and the only times you ever really see empathy in a villain is when the villain is using their empathy to manipulate and generally hurt the people around them, and you practically never see a villain who is in any way compassionate. “You care too much!” In many narratives is used as an insult and is framed by the villain as a fatal flaw, until our main character and all the friends they made along the way come together to defeat the bad guy using teamwork and determination, and it turns out it wasn’t a fatal flaw at all, it was their greatest strength. 

I think this is what makes c!bbh such a weird character. He wants power, he wants to create chaos and discord among others for his own benefit and he would probably succeed if he didnt keep fucking himself over with his own empathy. He is literally the definition of “you care too much”, because he does, he cares way too much for his own good and it keeps getting him hurt. He knew that the egg was manipulating and brainwashing him, and yet he still went back to it off his own accord when it took Skeppy so that he could be with him. He knew that he would get in trouble if he let Dream escape from the prison, it was his job to keep him in the prison, but he also knew that Dream was getting tortured, that he was suffering and that there was little to nothing that he could do about it. So he let him go. He gave the blueprints to Ranboo for the same reason he let Dream escape. Because he felt bad for him. Because he wanted to help and not let Dream suffer but there was little else he could do (even saying outright in one stream “I thought it was the right thing to do,”).

And where did all of this get him? Did it further his goals of monopoly? Did it gain him more power, or followers, or allies? No. He pushed away and hurt all of his friends. He accidentally killed Skeppy. The Eggpire fell. The Badlands fell along with it. Dream got out, and now he’s going back to terrorizing the smp. Because of this, Sam threatened to kill Ranboo to try and make him come back, and subsequently went through with it when it didn’t work, which would, indirectly, be Bad’s fault. He lost his job. He lost everything. As of currently in the Dream smp, c!Badboyhalo is a complete wreck of paranoia and using unhealthy coping mechanisms in a poor attempt to deal with his extensive trauma. 

He really is a tragic character, because every single time he tried to do something for other people it blew up in his face.

It really puts that “You care too much” view that a lot of villains have in media into perspective, because as we can see through c!bbh, for them it would be a fatal flaw. You can’t be compassionate and still succeed as a villain, or, you can, but it’s damn near impossible. Most villains that even have any empathy or compassion either gain it over the course of the story, or they already have it and they end up being closer to anti-heros than villains. In either situation the villain usually ends up turning to good and joining the heroes. You can’t have empathy as a villain, it's not sustainable, it’s not productive, and it will lead to ruin. c!Badboyhalo’s intention in those moments was to help, but due to his goals and plenty of his actions being conflicting, it ended up with everybody getting hurt.

I mean, I’m sure it wasn’t all because of his empathy, he’s not exactly the brightest bulb in the box, and that factor certainly didn’t help, but my point still stands.

[jojotichakorn]

PART 2:

But by now, the damage is done. And there’s no way Wai can undo it. In fact, everybody seems to have moved on already. And that brings Wai in an extremely complicated situation. Because he lost the momentum to speak up about what happened (cf.: the scene in part 3 where something similar happens about the cctv). But if he had done, he would’ve lost it all and most importantly: his very best friend. (Who Wai may or may not be into, but definitely signifies more than just his bff.) And he can come clean now, but that would result in the same thing. Which is something so daunting Wai would never dare to do it.

Instead , Wai’s main strategy seems to be waiting for it to blow over (we as viewers know it will inevitably blow up). But still, the guilts eats at him and he tries to find ways to “make it up”, to better himself. Stand up for the team to the opponent, save Pat’s ass with the cctv footage, and probably something stupid next week as well. But they are reckless things and will probably put Wai in danger and add insult to injury in PatPran’s already complicated relationship. I think the tension will probably come from Wai trying to better himself. (While my irl personality is more like a combination of Pran & Pa, I can empathise with the strong avoidance tendencies. Of messing up [in a small or rather big way] and instead of owning up to your mistakes trying to “fix them.” And in the process adding insult to injury.)

But things will backfire for Wai. (I’m not sure how: but for one, I don’t think we have seen the last of rugby guy; for another I don’t completely trust the theatre technician 🤔; but it can also be something innocent like Wai giving PatPran have an epic romantic dinner in the restaurant after hours…) Point is that I don’t think Wai will stop trying to “compensate” in an attempt to lessen the guilt…

…well, Wai, my neurodivergent ass has a surprise for you: it won’t work! The only solution is coming clean.

Being Wai’s best friend, Pran will inevitably become suspicious. In the end, it will be revealed what Wai did. (Maybe the aforementioned technician will blackmail him?) But I hope it will be between Wai and Pran. Bc 1.) Pat will snap Wai’s neck and 2.) this is essentially about Pran. It’s a confrontation between friends, an evaluation of trust and maybe the conclusion that the friendship is beyond repair. (All themes that are already inherent to Bad Buddy btw!) And I would be fine with that ending (or a variation of it, i.e.: “we’re cool but you’re definitely not my bff anymore”), so long as it is addressed properly. Because, imho, friendship and trust are just as important themes in a show called Bad Buddy. 🙃

I hope this huge batch of guesswork made sense somehow. 😓 Can’t wait to see your reaction! 😙

~ operanon 🎼

P.S. The ways in which I get the shivers every time I see the phrase “wai” in any given word. 😖

P.P.S. Oh, new anon, you’re very quick! Tbh, I feel a little bit intimidated now. 😰 I wonder what made you sure you knew. 😯 Maybe we can wait a little bit for the other anons, maybe anybody else feels like they want to place their bets?

P.P.P.S. Hugs to 🤍 anon, you Archer, and all my lovely fellow anons!! You make my day a little brighter again and again. 💞

P.P.P.P.S. I think 💟 anon does a very good job at keeping her chaotic “mastress” in check. 🤪 (why does this sound so much like mattress?! 😳)

the continuation of your theory is as interesting as its beginning. my only note is that - as a self-proclaimed pat expert - i disagree that pat would "snap wai's neck". he is clearly already angry at wai, but i firmly believe that he understands this is between pran and wai, and even if he might express his opinion, i don't think he would actually get between them. i am still hoping the whole wai thing is addressed, though!! and i agree that friendship is always an important topic - not sure if i would be able to even call wai a friend though ;)

re: p.s. - yelling gkjfdlkgjflkdgjfldkg

re: p.p.s. - ok, we shall wait for now!!

re: p.p.p.s. - hugging everyone back (if y'all are comfortable with it, of course)

re: p.p.p.p.s. - you are thinking about the dirty side of it all again, i am so sorry heart anon kgkdfklgdflkgfd

[wupassman]

Reviewing SweetStoryBro’s Review of the Shenmue story

https://twitter.com/sweetstorybro/status/831177322803892225

Some first ofs:

I am writing this directly adressing Sweetstorybro because it feels more natural and less impersonal to address him but that doesn’t mean it’s not intended for anybody else. I am one of the big backers (toy capsule set pledge) so I have a lot to say about this game I fought 14 years for to get that Kickstarter.

I am sorry if this may read a lil bit like a scatterbrained person wrote this. I basically take notes as I listen and since I managed to lose my write up for the first half of the podcast I had to rewrite that from memory too.

I really like the effort and research you put into this, while in places I can add something overall this is very sastisfying for a long time fan and definately a pretty goddamn complete rundown of what the story is about and how its executed. That being said generally if there’s agreement there is not a whole lot more to add so if I don’t outright disagree you can assume I agreed.

Let get to it then:

I think you did a really good job at explaining in which way Shenmue surpasses your average gaming experience, while its clearly a game it kinda goes past playing but experiencing. As you pointed out this game can be a very different experience for each player based on how hard they are looking to find connections and generally explore the world (and progress the story at just the right pace as to not miss a single cutscenes XD It’s not too easy to make a 100% run but if you do, things like Nozomi moving isn't as much out of the blue, yes she basically leaves as abrupt as he does but it's foreshadowed during the convos with her). Yu indeed built a very lifelike world with tons of lil details and NPCs that felt real. I really like how you brought up that book explaining what Yu was trying to do with this world. That was a thing I fan haven't heard of before. Indeed it is a very key aspect to differentiate between japanese and chinese, which of course becomes a much bigger deal in part II even, when Ryo is removed from his stomping grounds but in Hongkong. It's actually p interesting how a game about chinese culture was kinda a main idea from the beginning, as he was inspired to be making Shenmue (then Akira RPG/Project Berkley) many years prior, when he travelled China in order to research martial arts for Virtua Fighter.

As this is a perfect segway I’ll be skipping ahead a little bit here and talk about the fighting system.On of the main genres I always played were fighting games so I personally appreciated the super simplified VF fighting system (try VF3TB from the same time and youll know the difference) and being such a player I wouldnt even have thought of wanting to play this with analog stick. Golden rule of fighting games: dpad = accuracy, analog = wishy washy. That being said I am not at all opposed to change it up for Shenmue III and make it feel more like Sleeping Dogs. After all back in the day it was a different controller not quite as handy for 3D games (the lack of a 2nd stick means a lot). As long as the fighting is tight and responsive it works for me either way, iof there is a change that needs to happen it’s the camera. I am not really holding it against the game cuz it’s really old but the camera screw ups during fights could leave you clueless which way youre facing at times.

I wouldnt worry too much about the thing with the chapters. The games don’t equal chapters. It’s more like arcs/themes (as you later said when talking about the PostMortem). From basically the very start Shenmue was supposed to be split into 5 games and as of yet the plan/hope is that the final game will be Shenmue V. Shenmue I was only 1 chapter but Shenmue II was 3.

At the risk of completly blowing any kind of credibility I might have and just come off as a crazed fanboy: The pacing of Shenmue I had purpose. It very much corresponds with the mental state of Ryo. Feeling of grief and feeling lost. Shenmue I basically is about running into a brickwall and trying a different path until at the end he finally finds a way to get his passage to China. Until then his plans were shattered and ruined a couple of times and it weighs on him. And it should weigh on the player too. It’s part of how you manage to get this deep connection to the character because you as a player are forced to live out the day as is (or just go for the blocking out that your dad was killed and spend all day in the You Arcade). this is further emphasiszed that in Shenmue I theres rarely ever good weather and most of the soundtrack is depressing too. The days getting long is absolutely intentional. I can see how this might not be the most fun kind of gaming for a lot of people, but this is why different games exist. Shenmue’s job is not to appeal to players who can’t enjoy a game where shit doesn’t explode every 5 seconds. It is important to tell people who are interested so they know what theyre in for but its not actually a negative for the game itself because it actually perfectly fullfills what was required for this part of the story.

There is no way to talk about this without explaining how this correlates with the 4 themes Yu brought up and why Shenmue II is such a change of tone. It’s not just the fact that Hongkong is a bustling metropolis. It is very much the fact that due to the unseen part on the ferry and much more so because of all the masters and other freaks he meets in Hongkong that he opens up more. Again the change in tone of Shenmue II is also accompanied by visual and audio cues. THe soundtrack of Shenmue II is overall more upbeat, depressing themes do play in the more run down quarters but overall the game sounds cheerier. Likewise its not just that Hongkong of course is a much more colorful place than the suburban area he grew up in. It’s also basically always sunny in SHenmue II. Granted it makes a lot of sense due to the different seasons the game takes place in but of course with a highly artistic work like this, this is not a coincidence.

Let’s move right into the next part here. Yes Ryo behaves like a jerkass towards a lot of his peers. While there is a chance that the Voice Acting has some to do with it (No dissing Corey Marshall, the man is a hero!) it is still fully intended for him to be as cold and brooding as he is. You can tell by the face animation, which is p goddamn good for a game that old. Every Shenmue player made jokes about how Ryo’s happy face looks the same as his angry face. His moments where he is at least not totally miserable are rare and special. He is consumed with grief in Shenmue I. Shenmue II is about moving forward from that. HENCE DEPARTURE. not just locally but mentally. I really need to compare the interactions he had with the 2 most important females in his personal life.

The first one is obviously Nozomi: These conversations are awkward for more reasons than just them sucking at talking about their feelings (which btw isnt just them being teens but really very much them being japanese in this era too). Keep in mind both are aware of the feelings the other one has so they have a very close relationship. You’d think close enough for him to actually tell Nozomi what hes on and about to do in order to find the killer of his father. He doesn’t He’s very sparse with the information he shares which is entirely rooted in the fact that revenge is highly egoistical (heres a theme that gets such importance placed upon in Shenmue II). That doesn’t even mean hes an egoist, cuz he is not. He is just super preoccupied with his grief and aparently nobody really knows how to help him finding a better way to deal with it (given his age that makes sense too, no complaints there). As I mentioned earlier tho it depends on your play how many scenes with Nozomi you’re going to see (the Shenmue Passport cd is a good reference). Also since it wasn’t actually out of the blue that she would be going to Canada soon it is quite understandable she has a hard time telling him about her feelings too. This is not only a well known story beat but IRL youd think whether you wanna tell someone you love them when you know for a fact you’ll be moving overseas anytime soon. Especially when you consider the circumstance that if Ryo wasn’t on his revenge trip he’d assume his role as patriarch of the Hazuki Dojo.

Now lets fast forward to disc 4 of Shenmue II (THIS GEM!) and inspect the interactions Ryo has with Shenhua. These are amazing. They’re literally the best conversations Ryo has in all of the 2 games. Shenhua’s cheery and innocent, good natured personality makes it exceedingly hard for him to be the brooding jerkass anymore. A lot of that has to do with all the people he met who became his friends/mentors in Hongkong/Kowloon. He grew because of them. But Shenhua’s personality helped a great deal too. All of the sudden there are no distractions. Just the environment and her. What else would he do but chat with her? If you havent played Shenmue II I implore you to just youtube the conversations he has with Shenhua and compare with Nozomi yourself. It’s like night and day and p much the ultimate signifier for his growth throughout the progress of the game. Now this is venturing a into fan theory territory: the fan base is p much split down the middle of what kind of romantic role Nozomi is going to play in Ryo’s future. To me shes the child hood love interest that never became more due to him being preoccupied and her frankly not actually being available either. It would seem sensible to accept this as a chance missed as a part of moving on. I am positive he is going to end up with Shenhua as she resumes transforming him from this brooding dude preoccupied with revenge to a guy who truly internalises the lessons he learnt in Hongkong and adds a big helping of humanity to it. 

Not to excuse his behavior towards Ine-san and Fukuhara-san (because you rightly identify them as cold) part of that is also rooted in japanese culture. With Iwao’s death Ryo became the patriarch of the family. Ine-san may scold him but in the end it is not her place to deny him. Likewise Fukuhara-san was Iwao’s student so that kind of transferred to Ryo now. The bigger point here is that he abandons his responsibilities for them. I don’t think it’ll have actual negative impact for him in story, but there is likely going to be a moment of awakening that it is high time he returns home and takes care of the martial arts school.

I am sorry this actually took a 2nd day to finish but I got busy watching Collisions 2017. I only listened to it once but in seghments. Since I am such a huge fan of the game I wanted to be fair and not overanalyze your review and find nitpicks where there arent any.

While the individual play style is entirely up to each player it is my recommendation for everyone playing this, it to give it time. Let it breathe. Just waste your time away doing fun stuff. You’re going to miss out on a lot if you’re playing it in the way youd play most linear games where you just resume with the next goal in the main quest like crossing of a check list. You are not supposed to leave this early. During my fast plays I still never finished before christmas. At best I managed a jan 15 arrival in Hongkong just to see if I manage to arrive on my own birthday lol. But in all seriousness the time limit for this game is so goddamn long because you arent really suppoed to rush through this too fast. Leaving by the middle of January or even by the end of it makes for an overall better experience IMO (lol I just heard the 10 hours thing and I damn near lost it haha. look as I said it’s ok to play it any way you see fit, but seriously 10 hours literally means just the main quest. no goofing off. You’re missing out on stuff and an overall more majestic experience is all I am saying) To me the harbor segment was super fun cuz it was cool figuring out how you get the most out of each day, incl at least some good toy collecting and maybe training (usually didnt need that anymore at this point). By no means I am trying to tell you to like an aspect you didn’t, but to me this very much comes down to how deep you immerse yourself in the world. If you let the time go by slowly (dont run basically😉) such things as working have a deeper impact on how you experience it - then 2h lunch break still feels like 15 minutes. It was literally the opposite for me in that the harbor is when I am p much forced to move the plot forward instead of just goofing off so much. I know people who share this kinda play style feel the same way that the harbor is - to us - where it really picks up.

Before my review of this is over I’d also like to personally recommend the japanese dub over the english dub. Yeah the english dub feels weird at times but this is also intentional. A good comparision to that would be the lines in the Spartacus TV show. Just like that one was speaking latin in english the Shenmue dub was speaking japanese in english if you get my meaning. The VAs talked about this on the SEGANerds podcast during the kickstarter. Of course due to having played it so much it works for me but it’s easy to tell the difference. At the same time I can not praise the english VAs enough for being incredible heroes who promoted the Kickstarter hard, it was amazing. I love all of you guys. Thank you for your passion. Will def play Shenmue III in both japanese and english to honor all of you!

I warned ya it’s prolly a lil bit all over the place. Anyway thanks for the review. give the man a follow: https://twitter.com/sweetstorybro