#but I don't think lwj would be doing anything...not that I think its like healthy to just simmer in lustful solitude for years

[llycaons]

the fic where everyone is into bdsm and/or in a poly relationship also has lwj super experienced but also he and wwx JUST got together even though they knew each other since they were in high school which all lends itself very nicely to the sex scenes the author likes to write but I just can't really see it...I can see them having other relationships/hooking up before they become friends but after???? lwj is having crazy kinky sex without wwx for YEARS??? I just don't think he would do that

[crossdressingdeath]

i'm so weirded out by JC stans who are obsessed with the 'promise' WWX made to JC. It's so messed up that WWX had to tell him he'd be his subordinate to placate him when he was throwing a temper tantrum. JC actually expected the person he was raised alongside (the person who JC stans insist he saw as a brother) to be his subordinate forever, like its not okay that JC sees WWX as inferior, that he will only be happy if he has power over him?? Genuinely creeps me the hell out.

Pretty sure MXTX didn't WANT us to sympathise with JC here either - like contrast it with how WWX treats WN - when WN kneels before him, WWX is like 'no, don't do that' and when he doesn't get up, WWX kneels as well, i love that scene SO much. And there's the fact that WWX sees WN as his own person, respects him, wants him to find his own path. Whereas JC only sees WWX as having any value when he is serving him/lotus pier. JC was so mad that he left, he tried to kill WN, the innocent teenager who he owed his life to!! JC thinks he owns WWX. And actually, he only starts to question that idea at the very end of the novel, when he discovers the GC transfer, because that means he can no longer insist that WWX owes him a debt. People interpret this to mean that JC was starting to realise he was wrong but i disagree! JC never questions his core belief that WWX is his inferior, and was obligated to serve lotus pier forever, he only lets go of the idea when he is forced to consider the debt paid. But if JC actually saw WWX as a brother, actually loved him and treated him as his own person, he would never have thought WWX was indebted to him in the first place.

(Also minor tangent when I first read MDZS I didn't love the whole ‘thank you’ and ‘sorry’ are unnecessary between wangxian thing bc no matter how much you love someone, you should still be grateful when they do things for you, and apologetic if you’ve done something to hurt them. But, I guess the point of that, metatextually, is that before LWJ, WWX literally didn’t have unconditional love from anyone. Any support he received from the Jiangs was conditional, and he was made to feel like he’d done something wrong just by having JYL and JFM care about him. MXTX is obviously saying something about love here, that idea that you are indebted to people who have supported or cared for you aint it.)

I know people are gonna say 'well historically it would have been acceptable to treat WWX like a servant' or whatever but that's not the point! MDZS leans pretty heavily into the idea that treating people as if they are inferior just because it's technically acceptable to do so isn't okay!! I mean, WWX literally treats the corpses he raises with more care and respect than JC ever treated him with.

To start with the easiest point, I’d say that the “Thank you and sorry are unnecessary between us” thing wasn’t necessarily entirely literal? Rather than “never say sorry or thank you ever” I got the impression it was more “Don’t apologise for things that aren’t your fault or aren’t actually a problem or say thank you for things that are the bare minimum requirement for a healthy relationship”. Basically, they’re still going to apologise for hurting each other and thank each other for making dinner and such (...well, WWX will thank LWJ for dinner, anyway), but it’s not going to be like. “Thank you for letting me live in your house”, y’know? It is about WWX finally having unconditional love, but I don’t think it’s supposed to be taken as never apologizing or thanking LWJ for anything like it’s his due; that’s the same problem, just from the other side.

But yeah, parts of the fandom really cling on to that promise. Like, I... seriously doubt we’re supposed to see a child having to swear to serve his “brother” indefinitely to keep said brother from throwing a temper tantrum and the brother expecting him to keep that promise even after betraying him and causing his death as cute? or a proper brotherly relationship? Even without taking into how WWX specifically said they’d be like two people who eventually parted on good terms because WWX’s father wanted to live his own life, so the promise wasn’t even for his whole life. Siblings don’t generally demand an oath of lifelong loyalty that is expected to be upheld even after multiple attempted murders, y’know! And you’re right, JC is angry to learn about the core transfer because it means he can no longer demand that WWX repay his “debts”. All the debts have been paid, JC can no longer demand service from WWX over them. JC is mad because WWX’s leash is gone. Honestly even the fact that a promise exists between them that involves WWX swearing to be JC’s subordinate while JC promised nothing in return makes their relationship kind of fucked up! Siblings do not, as a general rule, demand unflinching loyalty with nothing in return! Even the ones that don’t betray their siblings wouldn’t expect that! Basically... the fact that WWX had to all but sign his life away to JC for the foreseeable future to get JC to stop throwing a tantrum over something that was in no way WWX’s fault should be seen as a massive red flag for JC’s views on their relationship, not a sign that WWX “ruined” their relationship by deciding that on second thought he didn’t want to spend the rest of his life bound to the guy who tries to kill him more times than any other individual character in the entire story.