#but in the case that it wasn’t i don’t think straight shippers understand it’s more than about losing a ‘ship war’ to us

[wontbyers]

if byler is not requited then i’ll probably begrudgingly accept the facts, but i’m never going to rewatch seasons 3-5 again. i’ll just watch 1 and 2 and let myself enjoy that as its own contained story. but i’m not sitting through mike telling will it’s not his fault that he doesn’t like girls, will destroying castle byers, will spending s4 playing relationship counselor for mlvn and giving away his own heart to fix their relationship, and whatever bullshit happens in s5 if byler is not to be endgame. it will just hurt too much.

[echo-rambles]

NOT HYUNLIX ANON however, I would love to take this opportunity to talk about hyunlix and my opinions on them as best friends and partners (coming from a hyunlix multishipper who is very easily swayed into shipping just about any combo of skz members, and who relates to hyunlix a lot). now here’s a personal essay lol:

I completely agree with your interpretation of hyunlix because I have lived that exact same dynamic with my best friend, and I think people are just not used to seeing such intense platonic relationships? for me, there are moments where hyunlix reminds me of myself and my bestie. namely the time in 2 kids room ep.1 when felix said he has to calm himself down because he thinks too seriously about hyunjin. that hit me so personally when he said that, because I know what it’s like to have that feeling with your best friend.

I met my best friend in my first year of university when we were randomly paired as roommates, and I felt that she was the first and only person who truly understood me. we immediately clicked and loved spending time together, and have always been able to easily work through conflicts and support each other unconditionally. I was a lesbian woman questioning my gender identity and my friend was (and still is) a straight cis woman. and people in our friend group immediately assumed we were ‘more than friends’ because I was openly queer and my friend was very uninterested in dating. and we were also super affectionate: holding hands, cuddling during movies, giving each other hugs and cheek kisses. which like, I don’t blame our friends for assuming that we were a couple but that was not the case at all. we both consider each other our soulmate, but we also believe that a soulmate doesn’t have to be a romantic/sexual partner, or even only one person. we love each other, but we’ve never been attracted to each other.

in our second year my friend got really busy with her studies and social commitments, and even though we were still roommates we were spending a lot less time together. I was also going through a bad mental health dip, and I tried to explain to our mutual friends how I was upset that bestie and I weren’t spending as much time together. and their response was basically that I was overreacting, and the reason I felt that way was because I was in love with her. but I wasn’t, and none of them understood my feelings??? and I ended up breaking down to my bestie one night because I felt so guilty and selfish that I had these feelings, and also like I was the only one in the world who ever felt this way. and she comforted me and promised that it was okay, because she felt the same way she just was in a much better mental state lol. so when I heard felix describe his feelings for hyunjin in 2 kids room, I felt that! I knew the exact feeling he was describing because I had someone that brought up those feelings for me! it’s like, confusing and scary when your feelings go against what is expected socially. or even against your own personal expectations. some of our friends have voiced confusion, and even I don’t understand how my bestie is seemingly the perfect person who understands me but I don’t want her to be my partner. I just want her to be my bestie.

and I think that’s where the hyunlix shippers get confused about non-hyunlix shippers. relationships like these often turn out romantic in media. there isn’t a ton of aromantic or asexual representation, so I get why people don’t understand relationships that defer from our traditional expectations of love. often when we see people using the term soulmates, or being so openly in love with someone, we assume those people have to be in a romantic/sexual relationship. and even more so when we’re in the fandom culture and we enjoy the act of shipping, these moments of intimacy between members fuel the relationship we want to see.

I’m a hyunlix shipper, and my reasoning for seeing them romantically is basically: I like shipping. I ship people and characters because I think it’s fun and silly, and I don’t see the ships as reflections of the real relationships.

so for me, hyunlix the ship and hyunlix the people are entirely separate. yes, the idea of finding that person who knows you and loves you unconditionally is very romantic. but, I know you can be in love with someone, and still want them to find their special person who they’re going to spend their life with. and when I see hyunlix, the ‘real’ hyunlix (because let’s face it, idols are playing personas most of the time because it’s their career), I see soulmates. I see myself and my best friend, who were mistaken as a couple by our own friend group, who feel safe enough to seek physical comfort in each other, and who are lucky enough to know what it’s like to have someone who knows you like nobody else. so, I think with any ship, people interpret the interactions as what they want to see, or what they are used to seeing. and there’s nothing wrong with that. but I believe that your interpretation of hyunlix is probably closer to the ‘real’ relationship, solely because I know it’s possible.

but who knows, hyunlix could be romantically attracted to each other. I’m not saying they’re not, I’m just saying I think I understand their feelings and I interpret their interactions as very similar to my own closest friendship 🫶🏻

first of all anon, thank you so much for sharing your life experiences!! especially with your best friend. I'm really glad you have someone you're that close to!

secondly; I LOVE YOUR BRAIN!! you worded everything so perfectly, I loved reading every bit of it. especially the bit about how the idols are showing us personas of themselves, and the people we're shipping are the personalities they want us to see.

also the vibes I was getting from your entire dissertation was qpr hyunlix, which I can absolutely see.

whenever I see hyunlix, I truly just see two people who love each other unconditionally but it's not romantic. something that's not quite romance but feels too big to fit into something as simple as 'plantonic', which I'm pretty sure is the definition of a queerplatonic relationship. you can have someone in your life that's incredibly important to you without dating them.

I love their dynamic but personally it's just not romantic for me. I don't have much else to add because this really was worded WONDERFULLY.

[firelxdykatara]

gods, ok, apparently i’m not done.

atla fandom? we need to have a chat.

(....ok that made me sound pretentious as fuck. and maybe i am, but this needs to be said, cause i’m getting....real, real tired of a Certain Corner of this fandom and as a result, this is gonna be a discourse-heavy post so feel free to scroll past if that’s not your bag. as always, my salt posts all carry the catch-all #salt for ts tag, which you’re free to blacklist/filter at your leisure. i’m Very Annoyed at the moment, which will probably come through in the following post, so just. yknow. be prepared for that. or ignore it, that’s perfectly valid too.)

under a cut bc i do care for my followers and their sanity i swear lmao

there’s a real serious issue in this fandom with not understanding what queer terminology actually means or implies, especially when applied to a fictional narrative.

i’m specifically talking about ‘coding’, here. (if i were in a more meme-y mood, i might have said ‘the atla fandom found out about the term “gay-coding” and haven’t shut up since’.)

to the people who say ‘zuko is gay-coded’, i have this to say: you keep using that word. i do not think it means what you think it means. because he isn’t. i’m sorry, but he’s not! and the fact that this is such a prevalent claim in this fandom is distressing, bc it says to me that none of y’all know what gay-coding is or when and how to apply it! please, i’m begging you, go and look up these terms and what they mean and when they should be used before actually trying to plug them into your critical analysis, because when you misuse them and then call other people delusional for disagreeing with you it casts a pall over the entire fandom and is, i think, the root of some of the worst toxicity this fandom has to offer.

and the thing is, there are cases where gay-coding would apply--for instance, a couple series that are famous for queerbaiting their audience by coding their main characters as being attracted to one another (sometimes even despite their openly stated sexualities) come to mind, but those shows bare no similarities at all to atla and how zuko was written and portrayed! (and it would be funny, if it weren’t so obnoxious and infuriatingly wide-spread throughout the fandom, because the only queer couple we actually seen on-screen in either show wasn’t even queer-coded in any respect, and they’re canonically bi! [yes, i’m shading korrasami, or more accurately i’m shading bryke for refusing to give ka the build-up and development they deserved].)

this absolutely isn’t to say that headcanoning zuko as gay is a bad thing or invalid in any respect. (although the tendency for zukka shippers to do this specifically to keep zuko away from katara and/or invalidate his canon relationship/attraction to girls is more than a little eyebrow raising. especially since sokka is usually allowed to be bi, bc fans have no problem letting sukka stay in the background bc it’s no real threat, while jetko shippers are happy to have both boys be bi. [possibly bc katara is less a threat to jetko bc jetkotara is every bit as valid as any single ship between the three, but zukka can’t exactly let katara join in, and if the potential exists for zuko to be attracted to her then canon giving them the far deeper emotional bond becomes a threat to zukka’s existence? idk for sure--you be the judge.]) i prefer to hc zuko as bi (and always have, long before the atla renaissance), bc i don’t think zuko being attracted to boys is outside the realm of possibility, and it isn’t a threat to my ship since zuko&katara had a deep and emotional bond in canon that is very easy to develop further into something that becomes explicitly romantic--but the headcanon itself isn’t really the problem (although what it’s often in service to can be).

it’s the strange insistence that this is the only way to read his character, bc he was coded that way and so anyone who doesn’t see it must be too straight to understand--and i really shouldn’t have to say why and how that is so incredibly fucking insulting. (the ‘hetero lenses’ comment wasn’t cute when it came from bryke six years ago, and the same sentiment being repackaged and delivered by zukka shippers ain’t cute now.)

calling zuko gay-coded not only demonstrates ignorance as to what the term actually means, and how to usefully apply it in critical analysis, but also validates the frankly bullshit insertion of institutionalized homophobia in the world of atla where it was neither needed, nor wanted, nor ever hinted at in canon. as a queer woman i’m still infuriated by one fucking comic panel shoving institutionalized and systemic homophobia into a world where it was entirely unnecessary (and doing this in the first installment of the franchise showcasing a queer relationship??? making korra and asami worried about ‘coming out’ when they could have just gone on to have cute adventures together and tell people ‘hey we’re dating’ and have everyone else be ‘that’s awesome =DDD’ [because it is, in fact, possible to just have a world without homophobia i promise!!!!!] double yikes, i’m still pissed at bryke about it), and i doubly hate that ‘zuko is gay coded’ has become so widespread that ‘ozai hates him bc he’s gay’ has become a staple in that part of the fandom.

not only does making zuko gay and implying (or outright stating) that ozai hated and abused him because of it completely undermine zuko’s character arc by making his abuse about his sexuality rather than ozai’s toxic pride and anger at seeing himself reflected in his ‘weak’ son, but it comes very close to outright stating that abuse and trauma are inherently gay experiences, and they aren’t!!! they really aren’t, i promise!!!

abuse and trauma narratives exist outside of ‘my dad hates me because i’m gay’. and, quite frankly, there are MORE THAN ENOUGH queer trauma narratives out in the world. we do not need to start trying to retroactively make them canon in a series where they didn’t exist! if you’re gay and see yourself in zuko and project your own experiences on him, that’s understandable and valid. that does not make zuko gay-coded. and honestly, the insistence that he is makes very little sense to me, because you’re essentially trying to give the show credit for work you put into interpreting the characters! why would you want to do that? why not own your own headcanons and take credit for them, rather than insisting they are canon and everyone else is wrong for not seeing them??? like, i’ve said before that i’ve always headcanoned zuko (and katara) as bi, and even support it with my interpretations of evidence from the show, but the difference between ‘i think zuko is bi’ and ‘zuko is definitely gay-coded’ is that i know that bi zuko is my interpretation of canon, and that it is work i’m putting into the show that wasn’t actually intended by the creators/writers, no matter how much sexual tension i read into the jetko swordfight.

and like, zuko’s character arc doesn’t actually parallel a queer one all that well to begin with. it’s easy enough to do the work and twist it sideways just enough to make the general points fit, but the fact is, zuko’s arc is not one of self-discovery. it’s not one of coming to understand something fundamental about himself that he can’t change, that he was hated for, and coming out to his father in a dramatic confrontation where he shows that he understands himself and doesn’t need his father’s acceptance to be fulfilled.

zuko’s arc is actually one of trauma and healing. and those can (and often are--like i said, there are more than enough queer trauma narratives in the world, atla really doesn’t need to be one of them) be part of queer narratives, for sure! but they aren’t uniquely queer. and zuko’s confrontation with ozai during the eclipse doesn’t read like a ‘coming out’ at all. (yes, i’ve seen that post. yes, i rolled my eyes and moved on, bc unlike some people, i’m capable of not clowning on correctly tagged posts i disagree with.) zuko is specifically confronting ozai over his abuse, because his arc wasn’t about discovering anything fundamental about himself (and therefore realizing that ozai was hating him for something he couldn’t change)--it was about realizing that he was not at fault for the way his father treated him. it was also about realizing that the fire nation was broken and corrupt at its core, and that his father was an aspect of that he needed to break away from so that he could help the world begin to heal.

he says it himself:

Zuko: No, I've learned everything! And I've had to learn it on my own! Growing up, we were taught that the Fire Nation was the greatest civilization in history. And somehow, the War was our way of sharing our greatness with the rest of the world. What an amazing lie that was. The people of the world are terrified by the Fire Nation. They don't see our greatness. They hate us! And we deserve it! We've created an era of fear in the world. And if we don't want the world to destroy itself, we need to replace it with an era of peace and kindness.

making this about zuko being gay and rejecting ozai’s homophobia, rather than zuko learning fundamental truths about the world and about his home and about how there was something deeply wrong with his nation that needed to be fixed in order for the world to heal (and, no, ‘homophobia’ is not the answer to ‘what is wrong with the fire nation’, i’m still fucking pissed at bryke about that), misses the entire point of his character arc. this is the culmination of zuko realizing that he should never have had to earn his father’s love, because that should have been unconditional from the start. this is zuko realizing that he was not at fault for his father’s abuse--that speaking out of turn in a war meeting in no way justified fighting a duel with a child.

is that first realization (that a parent’s love should be unconditional, and if it isn’t, then that is the parent’s fault and not the child’s) something that queer kids in homophobic households/families can relate to? of course it is. but it’s also something that every other abused kid, straight kids and even queer kids who were abused for other reasons before they even knew they were anything other than cishet, can relate to as well. in that respect, it is not a uniquely queer experience, nor is it a uniquely queer story, and zuko not being attracted to girls (which is what a lot of it seems to boil down to, at the end of the day--cutting down zuko’s potential ships so that only zukka and a few far more niche ships are left standing) is not necessary to his character arc. nor does it particularly make sense.

(and before anyone brings up his date with jin--a) he enjoyed it when she kissed him, and b) he was a traumatized, abused child going out on a first date. of course he was fucking awkward. have you ever met a teenage boy????)

anyway, uh, that was a lot of words, so have a tl;dr: zuko is not gay-coded. there is nothing uniquely gay (or even uniquely queer) about his character arc or characterization, and he was certainly not coded gay in an attempt to sneak a queer character past the censors. if anyone involved with atla was gonna try that, it would’ve been in lok, and as established, they didn’t even manage to queer-code the actual queer relationship before the last few minutes of the final episode. headcanoning zuko as gay is absolutely fine (though if it’s only done to keep him away from female characters he may otherwise be attracted to, that smells more like misogyny than anything else), but insisting that this reading is the only one that makes sense, and anyone who doesn’t agree must be straight (hello, queer woman here making this insanely long thinkpiece) is very much not.

ship what you like, but stop trying to invalidate other ships and other interpretations of characters just to make your ship seem more plausible. it’s really not a good look.

[doesitmatterseriously]

Jesus shit I disappear a lot.

I’ve been lurking on ao3 a lotttt. An unhealthy amount. And I’ve gotten into darklina.

Listen…I know it’s toxic but I like trash okay? And I read the grisha books and fucking HATED HATED Them. I ranted to my fiancé for like 2 months. Thank the stars for fanfic authors!!

I literally found a fic that I have accepted as the official ending. seriously.  it’s called “Start a war” by nymja on ao3.

I’m also beyond looking forward to the following on ao3:

“Dark Guardian “ by FairyRingsandWings (this is one of my most anticipated ones!) it’s incredibly interesting and is an au that involves demons/etc. it’s amazing and well researched. She runs an amazing tumblr under the name @thedarklingxalina Check it out!!

“ The Fight we never had” by PoetHrotsvitha.  this one is amazing because it’s self-aware it’s just hilarious. It’s been one of the most fun ones that I’ve read in a very long time in the comment section is to die for. I am so looking forward to the story and can’t wait to see how it ends. I’m definitely rooting for our creepy Alexsander. I dunno if she has a tumblr or else I’d put her user name. But seriously this one is fucking fabulous!!!!!

“ I have a longing” by LRcee

Jesus this one is just a feel good au. I fucking love It and I hope the author continues to write more because the writing is amazing. It’s intelligently written and every time I read it I spend the whole time smiling!

“ forgiveness doesn’t taste like this” by EvilPeaches

I never in 1 million years thought I would like any story with Alina and Ivan. And normally I do not like dark fics. Parts of this were really hard to read and there is another story like where she puts deleted scenes and extras, and there was literally one part in “ deleted scenes “ that I had to start and stop and take a break for a good while after reading. That’s a sign of a good writer. Anything that makes me uncomfortable and makes me genuinely think afterwards.  it’s at the end now with only one more chapter left but I’ll be damned if I wasn’t rooting for Ivan even though I am literally a hard-core darklingxalina shipper. This is one of those stories that is incredibly well written and just made me feel so many different emotions. It is very dark. But it really goes in depth about how in mortality and misery would affect you as well as your relationships with other people.

“A Space of Flowers” by ecphrasis

Part of series “ Darklina Cottagecore AU” , The entire series is amazing. I literally never thought I would be interested in a cottage core au but it is beautifully written and the author did a lot of research into making it feel like it’s in the century that it’s taking place in. It’s heart wrenching in and has so much angst. I truly hope that the author continues it and also that they get a happy ending. But the writing is just beyond beautiful. Fuck it is just gorgeous! Written by @ekphrastic 

”Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times….” by xxwalkinwonderlandxx

another AU that is in progress. It’s just incredibly interesting and I’m really looking forward to see where it goes. Not too much is given away so with each chapter update I’m still guessing and wondering what’s going to happen. Has been an incredibly fun read and can’t wait to see more! 

And the final one that is in progress…

“ I wanna see you in the light of the morning “ by renaegeorge

Omgggg. This one is so hilarious. Like whenever I’m having a bad day I’ll read this. I can’t wait to see how the story goes because it is just a feel good fic. I fucking love it! Please check this one out. The author is amazing and she writes so incredibly well. 

I have no clue if anyone actually read this but I beg you to please check these out and if any of these authors have tumblr that I don’t know about them please tag them so that way people can see their Tumblr in case they write on there. leave comments and kudos! Let them know if you enjoy it! And if anyone has any really good fics to recommend to me let me know. This isn’t even half of what I have bookmarked but I’m always interested in fics. 

These are my current favorites that are still in progress. I’ll do my other favorites at some point. But if you hated the ending of the grisha series like I did then please check out “Start a war”. I genuinely accept that as the ending now. 

And if you hate the darkling, then I totally understand. I totally get it but don’t attack me. People like what they like. Like straight up. 

[demonslayedher]

Hello! I don't know if you've been asked about this before but I love your analysis and reflections and I'd love to know all your thoughts about Zennezu if you don't mind 👀⚡🎀 Thanks so much for this blog!! 😊💝

Thank you again for your patience, as well as your comments on my fics and stuff in the meantime (even on Bird Fic, kya~ thank you <3). All my thoughts, hmmmmn…. Well, clearly I am a fluffy ZenNezu shipper and ship-content creator now, but I sure didn’t start that way. This may be long and rambling and mixed between analysis and personal taste. (Actually, it turned into almost 4000 words.)

So. First a little background. I usually am not much of a shipper. The very few OTPs I have all ended in horrific tragedy, and when romance is a big focus of something I’m otherwise enjoying I usually end up not paying much attention to it in favor of all the other elements I like. This is so much more the case when you can tell they’re going to wind up happily ever after. So what happened to make me so soft and fuzzy about the Kimetsu ships, when I otherwise usually don’t have an appetite for happy fluffy romantic endings?

Three major factors: 1. I’m obsessed. 2. I love these characters and want to see anything and everything about them. 3. Romance wasn’t actually a big element at all in canon, so it left me with an appetite and curiosity for it.

Even though I figured from long ago that ZenNezu would be end game, initially I was somewhere between indifferent and put-off. As much as I love Zenitsu, and I acknowledge that Ufotable the added the “run around and chase Nezuko” bit and removed the part with Zenitsu adoringly talking to Nezuko through her box, and as much as he can be defended for being lonely rather a pervert, the fact still stands that his level of appreciation for girls makes the characters around him uncomfortable. His most cringe-worthy lines at the Butterfly Mansion are all straight from the manga, and even though he was easily one of my favorite characters by the end of my initial watch of the series, I was very put off by his “girls are all queens” surface-level comments and more disturbing pleasure he took in the presence of girls (especially when he could physically interact with them), not to mention his pathetic introduction bothering a complete stranger and displaying that he doesn’t actually take girls’ feelings into consideration.

All this made me inwardly groan, feeling bad for Nezuko, figuring they were going to wind up together because she’s a saint who can find the patience to deal with someone like that, as he clearly wasn’t going to be desirable to any of the rest of the female cast. Enjoying the series well enough despite this, it didn’t bother me terribly much, pairings happen, whatever, I have a history of ignoring them. But one day, well and deep into caring about this whole cast like they’re all my children, I realized something. Isn’t… isn’t it cute how they both get their strength from taking naps? W-wouldn’t it be cute to see them innocently take naps together? Naps to protect each other? Oh. Oh-h-h-h-h. Oh dear. Oh no, it’s cute. Oh no. OH NO.

And that was how my warming up to this pairing started, it very quickly grew into “I love these children and I want them to be happy, being with Nezuko will make Zenitsu very, very happy, I love seeing him happy, happy Zenitsu” but was still a little reserved about Nezuko. Zenitsu was going to make her happy, right? It wasn’t just going to be a case of Nezuko having gotten fond of him over the course of everything they’ve been though, he is actually going to be her taste and make her heart go “kyun” right? Oh Nezuko, oh saintly Nezuko…

Let’s take a moment to pause here and think chronologically, though, as well as analyze their personalities and tastes. Neither of them are particularly picky, we can start there. Aside from fussy busy-bodies like Aoi, as long as it’s a girl, any girl is Zenitsu’s type. He’s desperate, and he’s painted the whole of girl-kind in pretty similar, not always realistic rosy colors. Even though he’s been used and abused by so many girls in his past, it’s his desire to believe that each new one he meets will fit that rosy imaginary color he paints over them that he chooses to let himself be duped, because he really is that lonely. I’ll give him that, sure, he’s a healthy young man with an interest in physical touch, but his dream in Mugen Ressha gives a good indication of what he’s really looking for: companionship, someone who likes spending time with him, someone who will find him useful and believe in him and look to him for protection, someone who likes him enough to spare him the physical intimacy of simply holding his hand. This is all an extension of what Zenitsu desires as whole, hoping he can better himself enough to be reliable and valued in general. Picturing it in the form of a significant other is one very vivid way to focus all those feelings, resulting in that rosy ideal which Zenitsu probably knows in his heart of hearts is too good to be true. That’s why he probably doesn’t think he’s ever going to find it, and therefore why he’s all over any slightest chance of attaining it.

My gosh, if being abandoned over and over isn’t enough, the fact that none of the girls he dated in the past were ever willing to even hold his hand hurts so much.

Nezuko, though, grew up in a secure family with a good relationship to observe between her parents. She probably always envisioned growing up to be like her mother, the quintessential “good wife, wise mother” (a phrase coined later on in the Taisho period to idealize the traditional roles of a woman). She cooks and cleans and sews and the first fanbook even tells us she was good at using an abacus, so she can handle family finances like a pro. Her traditional values probably made her tastes pretty standard, hoping for a reliable protector, but also someone who might be as kind as her father and her brother. But as for what makes her heart go doki-doki? The extra comic at the end of volume 3 tells us that she does long since have a type, it’s a person who’s like a Hisha.

Hisha: a chess/Shougi piece that can move an unlimited number of spaces in horizontal and vertical directions, and is crowned a dragon when it enters enemy territory.

So, yes, this is the part where we all smile and point at Gotouge and say, “I see what you did there, Wani-sensei.”

I find this reassuring; it tells me that Nezuko can find her heart squeezed at how cool Zenitsu is instead of just coming around and liking him because she was flattered by his affection and learned to see how nice he is and stuff. There are plenty of nice Demon Slayers who are strong and cool protectors, but that ZING that Zenitsu has (when he’s asleep) is something that can make her heart race. I’m all for this. I hinge so much of my ZenNezu feelings on this Hisha comment.

The second fanbook states that Nezuko initially had trouble sorting out her memories, and because Zenitsu gave her two such different impressions, it felt like memories of two different people, but over time the memories overlapped to form one complete person. We could say that she and Zenitsu had two first meetings.

Initially, when she was in the box, her little demon heart did go doki-doki; it was the first time a boy besides her brother had protected her, so even though Oniichan is Number One in her heart for the general duration of canon, this encounter was sure to leave a flattering impression. However, when they met face to face that night, he was just some confusing dandelion yelling and screaming about weird stuff, and then he was just a confusing (and possible bothersome) dandelion wanting to hang around her and give her flowers and stuff. It’s anyone’s guess just how “there” Nezuko was at this stage, as she does seem to gain back more of her own will and thought processes over the course of the series, rather than being guided by very, very simple rules to govern her behavior.

Zenitsu feel in love at first sight, and the second fanbook tells us he asked Tanjiro about her human personality, seeing as she wasn’t fully there. He was initially doubtful that anyone so perfect as Nezuko could exist and figured Tanjiro must had been biased and therefore exaggerating, but can we blame Zenitsu for being a smidge guarded? He’s been let down a lot, after all.

We know from Taisho Secrets and side novels that Zenitsu spent a lot of time with Nezuko during their long recovery at the Butterfly Mansion. Even how much more thought we see Nezuko display in the Train arc, she probably underwent a lot of mental development in this time, and my guess is that due to how much he interacted with her, this is probably when Zenitsu went from being a strange dandelion to a strange companion. She probably focused more on the goldfish and the pretty flowers (which he did take her to see!) and any flattering mention of her brother, though. Zenitsu, I’m relieved to say, seemed to genuinely care about what would make Nezuko happy instead of selfishly assuming something like “she likes me too, she wants to marry me.” But knowing Zenitsu, he probably assumed that her willingness to spend time with him was an indication of being willing to talk marriage once she was more herself again, though.

Let’s pause here and put on our Oniichan goggles, though. Early on, Tanjiro has to insist to just about everyone that Nezuko is still her own person with her own thoughts and feelings. Being a demon has taken a lot of her freedom to act on her true nature away from her, but he knows she’s still in there and he treats her like an equal human being. He had to watch over and over as people see his sister and only think, “demon.”

And then there’s his friend Zenitsu, who looks at her and thinks, “girl. Girl! Girl. Girl. Sweet girl, adorable girl, best girl in the world.” And maybe that’s a little bothersome, but yes, someone gets it!! Someone understands! Even though Tanjiro’s initial concerns are keeping Nezuko from being bothered by unwelcome advances, as long as Zenitsu is willing to respect that Nezuko is not entirely able to speak for herself now, he seems pretty approving of Zenitsu (provided Nezuko decides she likes him back). I’d like to think there was an unspoken promise between bros on what boundaries to follow. Besides that, Tanjiro believes in Zenitsu a lot more than Zenitsu believes in himself, so Tanjiro probably wasn’t worried about the “strong protector” role a future husband should fulfil. Or at least, Tanjiro doesn’t seem concerned once he gets to know Zenitsu, he’d have rejected Zenitsu flat-out on that first meeting. Zenitsu, you are so lucky Tanjiro is so forgiving.

However, for as much as Zenitsu sees Nezuko as “GIRL!! Girl, girl, girl!”, he’s still got his rosy vision that conveniently clouds out any disturbing realities. She is, after all, a demon.

This is something Zenitsu never actually had the chance to struggle with, and I would have really liked to see him challenged by that reality a bit more. He never witnessed Nezuko’s berserker mode, nor did he ever see her struggle to keep from eating someone, he wasn’t even awake to watch her fight like a violent animal/angry toddler on the train. Had there been a scene of Zenitsu forced to face how terrifying she had potential to be, it would had really sold his commitment to Nezuko specifically, instead of only Nezuko as his most likely girlfriend candidate.

On the train, Nezuko has the good fortune of seeing another side of Zenitsu, getting one hell of a doki-doki moment. As she’s gaining more self-awareness back, it probably made those doki-dokis more complex too. While I understand there wasn’t a good opportunity to fit in the pace of the story, I love that Taisho Secret of her concerned about him before he wakes up. Instead of him just being that boy who shows her pretty things and says nice things about her Oniichan, this is when he starts becoming something a little more unique among all the people whom little demon Nezuko has bet and who have been nice to her.

In the months that follow, we don’t get much deviation from this slow development. Zenitsu’s feelings toward Nezuko don’t really change at all, but there’s another thing about this ship: neither one chose the other over anybody else. They sort of just came together, Zenitsu gets hooked on one girl at a time, but what if someone had come along with an interest in him? At what point would he had given up on Nezuko? Probably pretty quickly, if someone was serious enough about him. It wouldn’t have been a break up either, since he was still in the pursuing stages (might be more of a break-up conversation with Tanjiro, who had been tacitly supportive).

Actually, for most of the remainder of the series, the affection that Nezuko and Zenitsu build for each other is done when they’re apart, dwelling on their thoughts of each other. For Nezuko, we see this come out after the Swordsmith Village arc in her sunlit elation to see him again, and her efforts to greet him. She very clearly recognizes him and is happy to see him, a big difference compared to how she was more elated by the sight of a fishbowl before. In Zenitsu’s case, this deepening of his affections and running away with his thoughts and feelings results him declaring once and for all, this is her. He’s found her. This is the girl who he will be committed to his whole life, in his heart she is already his wife.

When human!Nezuko is gaining her memories back, her first impressions are of the boy showing her pretty things and giving her flowers, someone who probably has a crush on her, rather than thinking back to someone who she may have had a crush on. (Those cool impressions probably hit her later, I’m assuming, given the stress of the moment.) Romance is not immediately on her mind, though she does quickly recall having friendly affection for this boy for has always been so sweet to her. And Nezuko, handling his surprising level of affection gracefully, helps Zenitsu off the battlefield while he’s in terrible pain (though she probably was too, my poor girl, that fight with demon!Tanjiro was so rough). But honestly, not only is she probably too overwhelmed by everything to think much about romance, but she probably doesn’t take Zenitsu very seriously initially. She knows he’s got a tendency to overexaggerate, and it’s nice that he’s so sweet to her, but since he acts all fluffy and silly around her she probably thinks he’s not being that serious either. Furthermore, she’s got a lot of people to suddenly care about, Zenitsu has a lot to contend with for trying to get special attention. Hell, Zenitsu was probably awake and causing a racket while she was frantic with worry that comatose Giyuu might die. While she did remake Jiichan’s haori to fit Zenitsu’s later, see spent her time in the hospital mending Giyuu’s haori (Nezuko, baby, doesn’t your hand hurt though!?). While Zenitsu was swept up in happy “Nezuko is human now, we’re totally gonna get married” feels, he probably didn’t even notice that he was only one slice in a very big pie of memories that Nezuko suddenly found in her lap and had to slowly chew and digest.

So… this brings us to the extra post-canon comic in the second fanbook, which I initially did not like very much back when it came out in February. I’ve come around a lot to it, but what really hit me at first was “oh no, Nezuko really is only going to accept this marriage because she’s a saint, he’s not being desirable at all.”

But, treating it with a little more patience and sympathy for Zenitsu… he’s just gotten what he’s always wanted, of course he’s going to stop striving a bit and get blissfully carried away in it. And Nezuko, the ever sweet, isn’t going to stop him.

Some of the other commentary in the fanbook states that Zenitsu, for a time, found himself terrified of how girls could be sweet to his face while hiding their true thoughts about him. But, finding that Nezuko was not at all two-faced, he nearly “died and went to heaven” as the exaggeration goes. He doesn’t like to work hard in the first place (but does, because it will make people like Jiichan proud), so getting away with being spoiled is too big of a temptation to resist. Nezuko is sensitive to what makes the people around her happy or uncomfortable, so she never makes any request of Zenitsu. She’s so grateful to have their new little family that her happiness is everyone else’s happiness, she doesn’t really desire a heartthrob romance, even if being a wife and mother is an eventual goal. And, without being under any pressure to make someone proud, Zenitsu gets swept away and indulges.

Thank you, Tanjiro, for putting a stop to this.

He’s still rooting for Zenitsu, since this is his friend and he knows it would make his friend happy to wind up with Nezuko, but he’s setting himself up for failure, or setting Nezuko up to be cheated out on a good match at this rate (if she were to accept out of being nice). Very, very thankfully, Zenitsu responds well to pressure. By this point Nezuko has gotten so used to sweet but indulgent Zenitsu that he seems she totally accepted that his Hisha side didn’t exist anymore, if it even existed in the first place.

Good for Zenitsu asking for her response a year later (when they’d be getting to the legal marriage ages for the Taisho period anyway), he knew he still had shaping up to do to earn her affection. And Nezuko probably needed time to build some admiration for him again, since the doki-dokis were so gone. Even if he couldn’t use that super cool Thunder Breath anymore, it would probably catch her attention to see him strive again, to put effort into being manly, specifically for her. It wasn’t just the Thunder Breath that gave her doki-dokis, it was the Hisha knight-like attitude too, whether asleep and acting on his inner potential, or awake and bravely defending her based on his own goodness and faith.

I hope that in their married life, Zenitsu will retain that sort of manliness in being a provider for her, even he does get indulged a lot at home.

Now for how this plays into some of my fanwork and headcanons:

You know how I said all my OTPs were tragedies? Yeah, I love a good dose of angst. I did start writing a single-scene fic one time of injured Zenitsu desperately trying to cover Nezuko from the sun while waiting for Tanjiro to find them, and in Nezuko’s panic about the sun she starts losing her self-control over her appetite, and Zenitsu is forced to confront that the girl he loves could very easily kill him. I never finished it, though, and it was embarrassingly self-indulgent.

For my big favorite AU of a monster fanfic, I did add more ZenNezu on the massive edit, because by this point I just enjoy ZenNezu so much that I wanted more of it. But!! What I really like about working with it in this fic is that there’s a conflict: Demon!Tanjiro. In this canon divergence, Human!Nezuko and Zenitsu get to interact more than they ever did while she was a demon, and they both already have affection for each other, but the lingering fact that Tanjiro is technically their enemy gives me some tension and angst to work with.

Yes, I wrote a One Shot of Zenitsu and Nezuko as fresh new parents, but it was a bit of a dark dive into Zenitsu’s feelings of inadequacy. But domesticity comes with some inevitable fluff anyway, and likewise it felt embarrassing indulgent, and I can’t write fluff without a little bittersweetness. M…maybe the reason I’m not a shipper is because I’m easily flustered???

I’d like to think that Zenitsu got a desk job that he worked hard at because he wants to be a provider, and Nezuko does find his hard work attractive. I headcanon it was at an electric company, because hahahaha, electricity. I’d like to think he had a long career in that company (and although his colleagues know him for having a bit of an extreme personality and being obsessed with his wife, they sometimes catch glimpses of a very, very strong side of Zenitsu—like, scarily strong), and that when he’s old and retired in the Postwar Economic Miracle, he buys a fancy camera to take pictures of Nezuko (instead of “say cheese” it’s “Thunderclap and Flash!”), and he takes Nezuko to Paris because that’s the romantic thing to do. Also, I don’t like moustaches as a rule, but I totally approve of old man Zenitsu having a fluffy moustache.

World War Two, though… I’d like to think that if his job had him in the city, he was extremely reliable when it came to protecting his family in case of bombing. I’d also like to think that this was when the Kamado family moved to the city, because Nezuko was worried about Kanao and her nieces and nephews, so Zenitsu made sure they were all together. Inosuke might had taken the opposite route and taken his family to the mountains to shelter out there in the wild.

AAAAHHHH, listen to me being so self-indulgent with headcanons, I pride myself on sticking close to canon in my fanwork, I will never produce this, AAAAHHHH, I’m embarrassed~~~~I---I’m not a shipper! No! I don’t have a shipper’s bone in my body! Who needs romance, it means nothing to me, I don’t get swept up in happy fantasies about young newlywed Zenitsu and Nezuko, really I don’t, I take what canon gives me and I stick with it, I’m here for bromance and comradery and fights to the death, I—I don’t need disgusting fluffy feelings, ew, ew, no, really-----ahhh, too flustered, too flustered, too flustered, no, no, no, no, no, no, WHEN DID I BECOME A SHIPPER, nnnnnnnnhhhhjjjj

Which is all to say that Zenitsu and Nezuko as a pairing really grew on me, even though it is essentially a fluffy happy pairing that only got surface-level interaction and was never seriously challenged. It’s got some shadows lurking in there, especially diving into Zenitsu’s heart, but in general this was a slow build-up of mutual affection between two characters with pretty simple desires of their own, and most of all, a desire to see each other happy. That makes it a good comfort ship.

And they’re both are sleepyheads, hNNNGGGHHHhhhhHHHHHHHHHHH

[billy-crudup]

why do you want bradley to be with the guy who not only outed her but invited her girlfriend to cohost knowing damn well news were gonna break while they were on air?

ahhhhh, this is the ask i’ve been waiting for. buckle up, bc i have A LOT of thoughts, and there’s much to unpack here.

let me just begin with saying that i ship bradley and cory from season 1. since i haven’t trusted anyone in the show when i started watching, it happened gradually, and by the end i was fully shipping them. even then, i already saw a few people being negative about the ship on twitter, but i kinda just ignored it. it was mostly about how they shouldn’t be together since cory is bradley’s boss, and it’s an unhealthy dynamic, which goes against everything the show stands for. i completely disagree with the last bit here, since the show IS about complicated workplace dynamics and NAVIGATING them, healthy or not. despite that, i can’t really imagine them together while they both still work at UBA. so in order for that to work out, one or both should leave.

when it comes to the outing itself, let me note that i do not excuse or approve of cory’s decisions. it’s very important to keep in mind while reading my whole rant. i really hate what he did, i truly do, and i wish it didn’t happen. he literally took her own right to come out and it’s very upsetting. yet, the betrayal had to take place, in order for his character to develop and have a proper arc, but i wish it was something else. at this point, i just hope that cory owns up to what he did, and learns from it. and tells bradley about it, of course. he still has a long way to go before he can be with her anyways.

all the accusations of bradley/cory shippers ‘hurting the gay community’ are crazy to say the least. i do understand why some people hate the ship and can be triggered by what cory did, it makes a lot of sense. outing someone is a very harmful thing to do, and can literally fuck up their whole lives (but lets remember though, that this is a tv show we’re talking about, and a couple of fictional characters, not the lgbt community overall). it’s important to note that I’m am straight woman, who has plenty of lgbt friends and did a course of gender and sexuality studies in university, as it’s something that i find very interesting. speaking of lgbt people in my life who have watched the show, a few can’t forgive cory for what he did, and are against him being with bradley, but many of them still ship them. because of my sexuality, i don’t think it’s my place to tell whether bradley should forgive him or not. there are a lot of opinions out there, and i just think you can’t generalize by saying we as a whole are ‘hurting’ the gay community, since, there are lgbt people out there who ship cory/bradley too. what i’m saying is, if all lgbt people ik in my life/saw online would hate bradley/cory i would look at it very differently. but it’s just not the case here. just bc you wouldn’t be able to forgive cory, doesn’t mean that no queer person would. the story the writers tell us doesn’t have to fit any specific set of morals. and also people are literally saying, omg cory destroyed her life blah blah blah, but did he, really? i mean, of course, it is extremely traumatizing to be outed and it’s a very sensitive topic. it can turn people’s lives upside down. but tms didn’t really explore that. they didn’t show enough consequences for bradley. her brother already knew, and she doesn’t seem to care about her mom at all. bradley seemed so upset and embarrassed, i genuinely felt horrible watching those scenes in ep6 and just wanted to hug her. but later i asked myself, how would these scenes be any different if some other information about her private life would be leaked? just smth to think about. i wish the writers would have touched on the consequences of the outing more, but they didn’t - they didn’t explore how bradley got traumatized by this whole experience at all. and the outing itself wasn’t even mentioned in the last 4 eps (apart from cory trying to confess), it’s like everyone has forgot it even happened.... still shocked that alex never found out tbh. one of the most important things for me in people are their intentions. that’s how i judge them, both in fiction and irl. cory wanted to keep hannah’s name clean first and foremost, not to out bradley. it doesn’t make it okay or the right decision, but he was stuck. if cory didn’t keep his promise about hannah, bradley would probably never forgive him. but he also genuinely wanted to do right by hannah. cory felt a very strong responsibility for her without even knowing her, because her dad was not able to protect her. one of tms’ writers scott troy confirmed in a tweet that the hannah situation was personal for cory because his dad was never there for him too. cory did not wish to purposefully harm bradley. the decision he made didn’t come from a malicious place. he is neither abusive nor predatory. did he fuck up big time while having ‘good’ intentions? he sure did, and it’s clearly bothering him. but also he doesn’t expect anything from bradley, he doesn’t expect her to forgive him, or to return his feelings. he just wants to be there for her and cares about her deeply, despite what he did earlier.  here is where i’m pulling all my receipts, since a lot of people for some reason think cory outed bradley bc he’s jealous of laura and wants to destroy their relationship or whatever. here’s what billy crudup said in THR interviews: «But what [Cory] did guess was that the preservation of Hannah’s legacy, as far as he could tell, was most ensured by something salacious. And he didn’t suspect that there would be any lasting consequences for anybody who was involved in this salacious information, and so he made a guess.» this pretty much confirms that cory has 0 brain cells, it’s very unfortunate that he at the time did not understand how much it can hurt bradley. this clown literally had no idea what he was doing.... also there’s this bit in another newer THR article: «[Cory has] been a caretaker in a way. What he was really concerned about was the well-being of this precious person to him and being able to articulate that that was also him being in love with her, it would have been impossible until that moment. I don’t think that was the motivation for him trying to undermine her relationship with Laura.” i think billy said it all tbh. this confirms that he wants what’s best for bradley, despite what he did. sometimes we do terrible things to the people we love, and we later regret it. again, let me clarify, that i’m not defending what cory did, but merely explaining. i’ve seen so many people see cory in a completely different light, and if i saw him that way too, i would never ship him with bradley.

also can i just say that i don’t hate laura (bc some twitter stans are convinced that cory/bradley shippers hate her???). i actually think she’s pretty cool and is good for bradley at the given moment. bradley needed her in order to develop as a character, and i’m happy laura could provide that for her. i don’t really see them ending up together for many reasons. i just think that laura needs someone as emotionally mature as her, and not as chaotic as bradley. and that she can offer so much to bradley and guide her, but bradley can’t give much back in return. and also bc laura wants bradley to be a certain way (confirmed by reese in an interview), as opposed to cory, who accepts her and loves her (unconditionally) the way she is. again, this is just my opinion. and also tms is about morally gray characters, and i find it hilarious every time i see someone call laura ‘perfect’ or ‘the best character on tv right now’. none of them are perfect guys, they all have flaws, and thats the whole point.

i’m going to end this rant of mine by saying how disappointed i am by this fandom overall. tms is by far the most toxic fandom i’ve ever been in. and here, i’m mostly talking about twitter people. tumblr is a safe space for me, i have a lot of friends and mutuals here who support me, and we developed our own community. i sometimes go on reddit to read all the discussions too, people are also keeping it respectful there. but hell is empty, and all the demons are on twitter!  i really don’t get how can someone possibly attack and cancel another person online bc of a ship/smth fictional??? and without knowing anything about them? like some random people said that i ‘excuse’ cory or whatever bc i stan billy crudup fghdjksfg like IM NOT MAKING THIS UP…… or that i am disgusting, homophobic, hurting the gay community, hate women, should be in jail etc etc…… people who know me, who truly know me, are certain that i am none of those things, and so am i. since i try to treat everyone with kindness and compassion, this is smth that i truly can’t wrap my head around. i’ve been minding my own business and trying to have a good time, making gifs and videos, but i still get plenty of hate bc of a ship. A SHIP!!! AND the fact that the writers and the smm had to deal with all the bullying and death threats is insane, i feel so incredibly sorry for them. like their smm hasn’t posted anything about cory in over a month bc of this. look, there are plenty of fictional characters i can’t stand too, but you don’t see me tweeting about it, or making posts, or commenting about it under someone else’s work. if you’re that obsessed with a fictional character/ship that you resort to harassing people online, including the writers, then you need to get a life and go to therapy. i acknowledge that what cory did is highly problematic bc of what he did, BUT THIS IS FICTION. and just like real people, fictional characters fuck up, and it doesn’t make them unforgivable or unlovable. you can disagree and disapprove of stuff a character has done, and still find them compelling. and i should be able to enjoy fiction without being told that i’m an awful human being because of who i like and what i ship. and this whole purity culture is very messed up, so many people don’t understand that a lot of things are not as black and white as they seem. especially in tms, where there is so much moral ambiguity. at the end, i really think that it doesn’t matter if you agree with me or not, or what you think about the ship. what important is understanding why certain people think the way you do, and simply respecting them. if you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all. it’s not too much to ask.

[nightswithkookmin]

Hey Goldy, i'm positive Yoongi isn't straight and has been fairly open about it from the early years. So do u think that Yoongi could've influenced Jikook (especially Jimin cuz he is very close to him) in any sort of way on their journey?

Jimin is VERY close to Yoongi

Thank you so much for this statement😭

I feel seen and heard🤧

Not a lot of Jokers out here appreciate Yoonmin's bond😭😭😭😭

The disrespect! How dare they!

In reality, Yoonmin is one of the best ships that reflects the hyung dongsaeng dynamic perfectly in BTS in my opinion- Jinkook and Yoonkook, NamTae are heavy contenders I'd say but Yoonmin is right up there with them. Love Jihope too- if they could cut down on the flirting chilee.

No JHOPE I don't want you to call Jimin sexy or look at him like you want to gobble him with a glass of Sprite- it's weird😭😭😭

But also don't stop

From Suga 'bullying' Jimin, teasing him, praising him, mentoring him, the bickering- he is the biggest PJM right next to JK and Namjoon. I said what I said.

So thank you for this. I literally cried.

Feel so good to hear someone say that.

I'm having an existential crisis at the moment and Yoonmin is what is getting me through it at the moment.

People need to stop invalidating the members' bond. Seriously. Not cool. They all have beautiful dynamics real or not.

But he's gay? 🤔

You believe Suga is gay??

Damn.

He's queer and has been pretty open about it from the beginning???

A lot of people assume that about him actually. I think it's interesting.

Did he influence Jikook, Jimin in anyway...

If by influence you mean support then yes. I think he was and has been very supportive of Jimin and JK individually and has helped them embrace and make sense of certain aspects of themselves.

I think he's more understanding than most of the challenges and difficulties of being young and uncertain of who you are growing up under public scrutiny and in a highly hostile environment.

I think he is wise beyond his age and I have a ton of love and respect for him as both a person and an artist.

I love 'People' so much...

I think the most Iconic thing he's said so far to me is this totally woke, fanservice questioning and ridiculing statement:

'I didn't want to wear the maid outfit. I was surprised when they said it's for the fans. We don't have any interest in seeing girls wear men's clothes so why does the fans want us to wear women's clothes?'

It's weird. Fanservice is weird.

My least favorite moment of his is when he admonished JK not to say things like he'd want a tattoo when he grows up because the fans wouldn't like that.

I found that very contradictory for someone who's life motto is nevermind- or is it I don't give a shit?😏

Find it equally triggering whenever he teases JK about crying too much or being a cry baby as if it's wrong for men to cry. There's nothing wrong with shedding tears. Men cry too.

Then the bit about him not wanting tattoos or just a dot on his toe or feet or something because he has things he might want to do post BTS that having a tattoo would just be an inconvenience... quite conservative I'd say.

He don't give a fuck but then he gives a fuck?

Mans gotta be a realist or I'd chalk up these inconsistencies in his values to the clash between his Persona and his real self.

To be fair, he's not the only one. That conflict plays out in almost every member's outlook.

I see Yoongi as that one person who'd say to a person, go for it but end that advice with a caveat such as, 'but understand people will hate you for it' or some truth along those lies.

He places consequences right next to desire and as long as the person is not oblivious to and can bare the consequences of their actions, decisions and choices then I think he'd ask them to go for it and stand in their truth.

That much I know is his value and I can see how that might have impacted both JM and JK. But rather than encourage them to take risks, I think he pushes them to seize opportunities and put themselves outside- there's a difference there. Their not one and the same.

More than anyone in BTS, I think he understands the gravity of being queer, closeted or being in a relationship with a bandmate in the industry they work in.

I think he is much mature enough to understand the consequences of over attachment and risks of detachment and that too plays out in the way Jikook carry themselves around in the group.

Other than that, I think he minds his business most times.

Do I think he is open minded about conversations on sexuality? Absolutely.

But that's as far as I can go on the topic.

I do not believe he is queer and I'm not convinced in anyway he is pansexual or bisexual either- don't quote his song lyrics to me I already know. Lol.

Boy or girl my tongue will send you to hongkong....

And then his interviews about what he finds attractive in women??

'... it's not limited to boys or girls?'

Lolololololololol

I think that bit was heavily misconstrued.

'I'M NOT GAY'

This was his response when he was asked to talk about moments his heart skipped because of JHOPE. Similar to moments when the members had said their they almost fell for a band mate perhaps.

Other translations of that statement he made in the interview was, 'since we are both men, how can my heart throb for a man' and then he laughs it off.

Knowing Suga, I think he probably meant that in the most ridiculing, most mocking way possible- these interviewers be asking some stupid questions sometimes.

But imagine Suga saying that with two gay members sitting right next to him in that interview and how these members would feel hearing him say that about homosexuality.

One thing about BTS, if they be making loud openly 'woke' statements, take a shovel to their past- it's usually because they've messed up somewhere and are simply acting conscious of the things they say that can come across as problematic. In my opinion.

They do learn and grow from their mistakes. That's one thing I love about BTS.

They've all had their problematic moments as I keep saying.

To me, this interview moment would be one of such said problematic moments if not one very homophobic moment of Suga's- if the translations were right I mean. chileee. Lemme shut up. Lol.

And before anyone says but JK said the same thing too...

JK had a 'fear' of coming across as Gay in his early years. Part of the reason he wanted JM on the west of his east when the cameras came around- in my opinion.

He'd stutter when similar 'gay' questions were thrown his way- prompting Jimin to ask him straight away not to answer said question when an interviewer asked him.

You pair that with some of the members describing him as 'wanting to be manly' or appear like a manly man and it's not hard to figure out what was going on with him.

He'd pause and look at JM funny when JM would describe their relationship as in between friends and romance...

Jimin had to tell him to relax and that it was normal for men to say 'love' to men without it being weird or gay.

He knew gayism was a thing. He simply didn't want to be viewed as one- either because of his own repressed homosexual desires, in which case that would be internalized homophobia or he really really didn't like being thought of as gay- homophobia.

Suga's is different.

He either genuinely didn't know gay was a thing or that some men's heart actually beat for other men- seems to me he thought the idea of a man's heart skipping for another man absurd or impossible- or dude thought he was being a smart pants with that remark. Lol.

Baring his age in mind at the time of the interview, that in anyway reflects his ideals or assumptions about sexuality. That heterosexuality is D norm. That straight is all he can be or should be thought of as- He clearly hasn't read the blogs. He's in for a rude awakening.

If JK had this ideology about sexuality I think he would have been able to hide his sexuality better and not freak out each time people made jokes about it💀

Suga's said explicitly he is attracted to gal's who wear headphones, doesn't like gals who play hard to get- said he'd kick em if they didn't quit playing hard to get (misogynistic and abusive lyrics there but it's hiphop- let's not talk about that) finds it ridiculous that men should wear female clothes, thinks 'men' shouldn't cry.... all the making of a fine gay man😃

Should we chalk it up to internalized homophobia then??

I wouldn't.

A very dedicated Sope shipper will tell you, he said what he said to cover the fact he is gay so there's that. Lol.

I'm just not convinced Suga is part of the community but I think he is open minded now, leans less into his conservative values and more towards progressive values and thoughts.

I don't think he in any way shape or form 'influenced' Jikook to be gay or to do the gay if that's what you were asking.

But I do respect your opinion on Suga. I think we are all free to assume whatever we want in this case.

I might be wrong about him. You might be wrong about him or we could all be right. We will never know.

Thanks for the ask.

Wasn't comfortable answering it though. Lol.

I don't like when I have to watch what I say.

Sigh.

Signed,

GOLDY

[loudest-subtext-in-tv]

Something I know no one will ever contend with when they just want to write a hit piece about us, but...

When Moffat said on the A Scandal in Belgravia commentary, “If you watch the show carefully, there’s subtext about John’s drinking,” what did he mean? He wasn’t being flippant, he’s said one of his favorite writers is William Goldman and writers should study him because he “knows everything.” Goldman’s Ten Commandments on Writing say to “put a subtext under every text” and not to be too on the nose. 

So what is the “real” subtext to why John drinks, and why does John drink when he’s alone with Sherlock and trying to get him to open up, or otherwise thinking about Sherlock? If the subtext is not about John’s relationship with Sherlock, then like... who else is in the room in those scenes, what’s going on, who is John actually thinking about, and why is it so important to the story that Moffat would include it? What storyline does the subtext of John’s drinking pertain to? It must be pretty big to not have been revealed yet, so it shouldn’t be hard to make a case for.

Similarly: When Moffat and Gatiss say that The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, a movie noteworthy for depicting Holmes as a homosexual in love with Watson, is the inspiration for their adaptation, what do people imagine they adapted from it? Because it wasn’t the characterization, they don’t much resemble the BBC Sherlock characterizations. Barely any plot points were borrowed, and minor ones at that. Why did they pick the big overtly gay adaptation for the basis of their show from a hundred straight alternatives? Why did Gatiss say the thing he liked about it was that Holmes was in love with Watson?

I mean, I know people who hate us will never actually watch it, but the movie is not subtle. The movie isn’t a bunch of gay gags, the movie makes very clear that Holmes is genuinely homosexual and in love with Watson in a deeply painful way that queer people can recognize and relate to, and the same vibe is heavy in series 3 especially. For example, the endings of TSoT and HLV are not gay gags, they are things that happened in the plot and were not presented as remotely funny.

There are two reasonable perspectives on this:

1) It is not especially weird for people who pay attention to what the writers have said about their stories to think all the gay stuff is intentional, and its not weird to have fun chasing down things the writers have taken care to talk about. That’s what fans do, they try to predict where stories are going. No one made hit pieces ridiculing Jon and Daeneyrs shippers because they recognized what the foreshadowing in Game of Thrones was saying, and they were basing it off almost nothing compared to what the showrunners of Sherlock have said and taken care to include in the plot and subtext. People write hit pieces about us because they deeply believe it’s stupid for queer people to think a gay romance could be depicted, we had the misfortune of having a sense of humor about ourselves (calling it a “conspiracy” and ourselves a “cult”), and were enthusiastic about the show and writers whose fandom we’re a part of.

2) The gay stuff is intentional, but all a big joke despite appearances to the contrary. Most of the antis even argued that the gay stuff was intentional, they just thought it was to fuck with people or be provocative. Some of them were even dreading S4, including while it was airing, because they thought we were going to be proven right and we’d be insufferable. If people who hated us worried we could be right, then how delusional could we be?

I can understand someone thinking it all being a big joke is more likely than a TV show depicting a gay romance, but it does not follow that people deserve to be an object of public ridicule because they recognized a bunch of queer allusions and painful queer life experiences that resonated with them and considered that the writers, one of whom is queer and unabashedly obsessed with the works in question, may have positive motives for including those things. It feels like punishing people for doing their due diligence of actually researching the writers’ feelings about things and their influences, rather than just piling on and calling them homophobes. I’m not trying to invalidate anyone’s opinions if that’s how they feel about Moffat and Gatiss nowadays, I’m just saying it’s not some shameful thing for people to actually investigate these things and conclude differently. It’s okay to think writers are talented and clever, and their fandom should be a place where it’s okay to explore that.

What makes me most sad about this is that there is genuinely no area of life where people can just play around anymore without being hunted down. Like, politics is fucking miserable, the pandemic is miserable, I just had a friend kill himself a few months ago because of how bad life is lately, a close relative who I never thought would have suicidal ideation has it now, I have been fighting wanting to die for years, in the U.S. none of us have any idea if we’re ever getting any sort of pandemic stimulus again -- so many of us are suffering immensely right now, it should be okay to be goofy and creative in a fandom without someone deciding its their prerogative to profit off us because they think we’re weird, or whatever. 

The reason there’s a lot of crazy meta analysis is because this was supposed to be a relatively safe, creative place where people can try their hand at analyzing stories without being graded or made to feel inadequate, so we treat metas a lot like fanfics where it’s not really appropriate to just rip people’s shit apart no matter how illogical it is, and we find things we like about analysis we don’t agree with in that same spirit: it’s a cool idea anyway, it’s artistically inspiring, it got close to a more compelling idea, etc. I have a big packet of fan mails where several people told me they had been scared and self-conscious to share their thoughts on things, and TJLC helped them open up and inspired them to major in literary or film-related majors. People start somewhere and it’s cruel to make fun of them because they weren’t great at something that doesn’t fucking matter. 

FANDOM IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A SUPER SERIOUS SPACE. NO ONE PUTS ON A TUXEDO BEFORE THEY LOG IN TO TUMBLR. NO ONE NEEDS SOME OUTSIDER TAKING THE THINGS THEY OFFERED IN THE SPIRIT OF FUN OUT OF CONTEXT TO PRESENT TO A WIDER AUDIENCE THEY DELIBERATELY AVOID BECAUSE THAT AUDIENCE IS MEAN AND SENDS THEM DEATH THREATS AND HOMOPHOBIC AND MISOGYNISTIC SLURS AND SUICIDE ADVICE. IT IS ACTUALLY NOT AN ENORMOUS CHARACTER FAILING TO SHARE BAD ANALYSES OF A TV SHOW, AND SHOULD NOT BE A MATTER OF NATIONAL INTEREST. 

But places where people can open up and try things out increasingly can’t exist anymore, because even in a low stakes environment like a fandom there are busybody ghouls who want to profit off being condescending about how people spend their leisure time. It doesn’t add anything to the world except their bank accounts.

[wenellyb]

this is probably just me but I’m kind of getting annoyed with directors and producers saying in interviews that they didn’t intend for the characters to be read as LGBT at all...i just feel like it’s always been a given that once you create a piece of fiction (like books or movies), the interpretations of the reader/viewer are just as important as the intentions of the author/creator.

even if the intention wasn’t to make sam or bucky bi and in a relationship, i feel like we are allowed to read them like that without the directors and writers saying “no no we didn’t mean for it to be like that!!”...like it might not have been their intention but it’s still there

and i don’t think it’s wishful thinking that they’re in a relationship either, like the tropes of a romcom are right there...anyway sambucky rights 😭

Hi Anon, I don't think it's just you and I really understand the frustration because I share some of it too but I'm frustrated at the real "culprits"... the executives making the decisions. I'm sorry for replying late to this but I have a lot of thoughts on this topic and I wanted to organize them first😂 First things first... I know we have all been in other fandoms... But we have try to stop applying what happened in other fandoms and what other directors have said in other fandoms to what's happening with Sambucky. For so many reasons, but the main one is: Marvel people cannot say anything.... literally.... They must have a secrecy oath or something but it's not in these interviews that you will find meaningful information.. Remember a while back when Anthony tried to tell us he WASN'T Captain America even though we had all seen Steve hand him the shield in Endgame?? So it was already a scene we had seen? That man was contradicting something that millions of people had seen with their own eyes. Was I frustrated at Anthony ? No. Because that's how anyone involved in marvel projects talks... ( You remember why people make fun of Ruffalo and Holland? Because they are the only 2 unable to follow that one simple rule😂) So my strategy is focus on the content we have and focus on the future content when it's time to focus on the future content... But I really never focus on cast members interviews or directors interview etc...(Only Stackie interviews but you know that already). I think that we are so used to complaining in other fandoms that we complain for the FATWS but the directors did the best they could. Maybe the directors/writers in other shows/movies have a little more freedom in what they said.

I would understand of it were an indie movie or something but it isn't, Kari and Malcom arent making the decisions alone and have some limitations because they aren't allowed to give any hints about the future... and most of the time they don't even know themselves... Directors/ writers change all the time. Besides in Marvel shows the romance is never at the center of the story, I consider myself lucky that we got this much romance in the show... If Sam or Bucky were a woman I don't think we would have had any more romantic moments than what we got (maybe just on little kiss at the end but not much more than that... Sam and Bucky wouldn't have been kissing in every episode I can assure you that). The only difference is that people would have seen the romance right away, and the shippers wouldn't have minded if there had been a kiss or not. Because that's how Marvel projects work... not much focus on the romance itself, it's not even a subplot, more like a sub-subplot.

Sam and Bucky started with only 4 lines in Civil War and then 2 scenes in Endgame... That's it. So what they have now is just amazing.

Another point: If I'm not mistaken, Kari never said that Bucky was never intended to be read as LGBT/ Bi. If she did, let me know and I will read the interview again. What she said was that the Tiger Pictures weren't put there to show that Bucky was bisexual but to show that he was not good with technology. And that there was" no sexuality attached to his character" which makes no sense, by the way, because he went on a date with Leah, so they had to at least think avout his sexuality,... But she didn't say that, she didn't say he was straight or bi. She purposely gave a vague answer...Like all Marvel people do... So I think it's unfair to get frustrated at her for things that are out of her control. She was giving a specific answer related to the Tiger pics, maybe she would have given a different reply to a different question. I know that directors or actors other shows have said what you just mentioned in your ask, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it hasn' t been the case for TFATWS. I don't think any of them said Bucky wasn't bisexual and even less about Sam. They never said anything like that or never said that they never intended them to be read as LGBT. Last point: I don't think that she had no intention of portraying Sam and Bucky in a romantic lighting... I do think it was intentional but I also think that this is the best she can share right now...

As you said... the romance tropes are right there... it's not a mistake or a coïncidence... they put them there for a reason I have said this before but I will say it again because I think some Sambucky shippers don't come from other MCU fandoms and even the ones that do seem to forget this sometimes... y

These writers, directors, etc always talk in riddles and share as little information as possible...We don't know what will happen and they don't know either... So it's very difficult for them to make impactful comments.

Sorry to bring this a lot but am I the only one who remembers the Peggy Sharon and the Peggy again situations...??? Do you think any of the directors or writer knew where the story was going when they were filming the movies? no. I say we just focus on what we liked and ignore the reat until there is real content, Kari said " they love each other and rhey work great as a couple" and Malcom said they are a family .... If I were in their position I don't know what I would be allowed to say... nothing is ever certain in the Marvel universe. As much as I'd like to hope about what happens with Sam and Bucky in the next movies... I don't even think the decision has been made, so why get frustrated over something that isn't even decided yet...What I can so... is the already great and developed love story, I don't care that there wasn't a kiss.

Would I have appreciate an "official" confirmation? Yes, yes yes. But I'm also happy with the story as it is and know that maybe it isn't their decision to confirm or not. But the content is there and it's a love story. People who say Marvel will never go there are lying because they don't know. And people who pretend Bucky and Sam will be together in the next movies are lying too because they don't know either... It's also a possibility that Seb wouldn't be in the next Cap movie... We really don't know enough to be frustrated about anything😂. Even if Kari and the writers had depicted Sam and Bucky as a romantic item (Which they did, by the way). I believe this is the maximum she would have been able to say... Maybe because they are two men... or maybe because that's just the way Marvel operates.

Please feel free to share your thougts on this if you want too and of course: Sambucky rights!!!

[thewinterset]

This is going to be a long post, so I apologize in advance.

I want to talk about “shipping” culture for a minute. I think there are a lot of great things about shipping, and I myself have shipped so many characters throughout the years. There are so many aspects of shipping culture that it would take forever to talk about them all, so I’m just going to focus on one for this post.

One of the things that I have a love/hate relationship with when it comes to shipping is how in-depth our analysis can be of characters’ actions and interactions with other characters. I love reading meta posts about cute little moments that happen between characters I ship. I love reading analyses about characters and speculations about why they did/said this or that.

But on the other hand, I think some things are taken out of context. I think, for the most part, this is done unintentionally, by those who have the purest of intentions and just want their favorite characters to be happy. However, by taking things out of context, one runs the risk of, for lack of a better phrase, reading too far into things. What may be a purely casual hug may be perceived by a shipper as another addition to a long list of “bread crumbs”, or foreshadowing, for a future romantic relationship between the characters.

An example of this is Buck and Eddie from 9-1-1, which brought me to write this post.

When I first started watching 9-1-1 about a month ago, I wasn’t really following any blogs about it on here. I knew about the show and I had heard people talk about Buddie. Watching all the episodes up until 4x9, I picked up on a little chemistry between the two characters, but nothing that made me think that their storyline was heading in a romantic direction. It wasn’t until I started following blogs on here that I saw all the posts about how all those interactions I had perceived as casual, platonic friendship were perceived by others as “proof” that their relationship was heading somewhere romantic.

I can honestly say that I can see it both ways. I would love to have more queer representation on television. I absolutely adore the friends to lovers trope. I think Buck and Eddie have a very strong relationship that would lend itself easily to becoming something more. But I also can see their relationship staying the same and nothing romantic ever coming out of it.

I’ve seen some posts saying things along the lines of “if nothing happens at the end of season 4 that sets up a romantic storyline for Buck and Eddie during season 5, then [they’re] going to be really upset.” And I understand that. On a human, emotional level, I get that. But I feel like a lot of people might be let down.

Again, I would love to see Buck and Eddie become more than friends, but on a realistic level, I honestly don’t see it happening. I’ll be the first to admit that I was wrong if something does happen, but I just don’t see it happening. I said this in a previous post, but neither of the characters have shown any indication that they are not straight, ever. A double gay-for-you has never been done (at least to my knowledge) and, despite all the speculation and analysis done of their previous interactions and how they may be perceived as foreshadowing a romance, I just don’t think that’s where this storyline is heading. I think that this is a case of shippers over analyzing and taking things out of context to fit their hopes and dreams for these characters.

I will continue to follow blogs that ship Buddie and I will continue to blog about Buddie as a romantic ship, because I do ship them romantically. But as of right now, where we are in canon, I only ship them romantically in an AU sense. I know I’ve said it a hundred times in this post, but I don’t see their canonical storyline being a romantic one. I guess we’ll know more after the next two episodes, but I just wanted to put my two cents out there before they aired, so. Here it is.

[katnissmellarkkk]

Alrightttt, I’m on a roll so we’re going onto chappy five 🥳🥳🥳😎😎

I know the movies made the Capitol — re: basically only Effie and maybe Caesar — have those ridiculous made up accents but .... I actually feel like the description of the Capitol accent in the book is supposed to be like the Kardashians or Paris Hilton’s voice. 🤷🏼‍♀️

“Why do these people speak in such a high pitch? Why do their jaws barely open when they talk? Why do the ends of their sentences go up as if they're asking a question? Odd vowels, clipped words, and always a hiss on the letter s. no wonder it's impossible not to mimic them.” Like this is a pretty good description of how Kim Kardashian and her sisters talk. And Suzzy C did say she was inspired by the juxtaposition between war news footage and ridiculous reality television shows so... I think my theory of the Capitol all talking like they’re on the Real Housewives of LA is pretty valid.

Just imagine Paris Hilton as Effie and Nicole Richie as one of her preps

Lolololol this whole section of waxing is reminding me to go get my legs waxed 😭😭😭 straight up calling me out here, Suzanne

I like how Katniss says her stylist “apparently has no interest in seeing her until the prep team has addressed obvious problems.” Like you can tell from her narration she was expecting to feel the same was about Cinna that she does about Effie and her prep team.

The “gritty loam that takes off dirt and three layers of skin” is probably just a strong exfoliator 😭😭😭 my girl knows nothing about quality skincare 🤧🤧 someone build a Panem Sephora

She mentioned them waxing her underarms.... girl, did you have hairy armpits before this? Idk why this revelation is new to me

“Grease her down!” Just sounds wrong 😅😅😅😅 I need to stop being annoying omg I’m like a twelve year old

Hmm it’s funny to me that Katniss refers to Octavia as plump. You’d think in a place like the Capitol body image and weight would be very important. Unless it’s like back in the old, old days when being overweight was a sign of wealth. Which would make more sense so this was an unnecessary thought process curtesy of Samantha

Katniss faking a smile and thanking her prep team shows she does know how to play the game and fake it better than she says.

So ... okay, hear me out, I’m not trying to get over the top or make this into something it’s not but ... the whole stylists / Cinna coming into the room and staring at her naked is a little weird. Especially considering Cinna isn’t Lenny Kravitz who’s like a bit older than her but actually like a twenty-something year old dude.

But okay, here’s the thing I was getting at ... Cinna’s one of the best people in this series and you can’t deny that. Even if you find him boring, he’s still one of Katniss’ closest people. Also he’s probably gay. But like ... what about the other stylists? I don’t wanna be that person who makes everything more than it is, but like, this scene just sounds like a perfect opportunity for some Capitol creep to assault a teenager idk I’m probably making a mountain out of a molehill just ignore Samantha okay.

That’s nice that he complimented her mama though 🥰🥰🥰

So Katniss calls District Twelve the least desirable district but ... doesn’t District Eleven suck too? Like she also later says District Twelve is the smallest and the poorest but doesn’t she also say Rue is worse off than her and Prim? Make up your mind, Suz.

Cinna claims he asked for District Twelve but did he really get an option? 😅 If it’s his first year and Katniss claims the newbies get them anyway 🤷🏼‍♀️ Samantha is once again, reading too much into this.

Awww, Katniss is thinking about how long it would take for her to assemble this fancy meal at home 🤧🤧🤧 it would take her days and the Capitol just has the necessary resources at their disposal and they just takes it for granted. And yes, I’m aware this is supposed to be calling all us readers out who take so much for granted I know. We’re the Capitol.

“How would I spend the hours I now commit to combing the woods for sustenance if it were so easy to come by?” It’s honestly so sad but so vital to her character that Katniss has zero hobbies or real free time. Her life is about surviving. She doesn’t get to live or enjoy very much of her time. She dedicates everything to keeping Prim — and her mother — alive, sacrificing everything a teenage girl should be doing. Sacrificing even the things the other girls in her world get to do. She mentions the merchant girls and the Seam girls who are more experienced romantically and sexually and socially than her. Because she doesn’t get to be a kid or innocent or even happy, in order to focus on her and her family’s survival. And the things she does enjoy, like spending time with Gale or dancing with Prim (mentioned in Mockingjay) she downplays in case they’re taken away, because nothing good is secure in her eyes. 🥺🥺🥺

Okay but what did Katniss’ facial expression give away that Cinna knew exactly what she was thinking? Or is she just less emotionless than she and Haymitch both claim? Ironically I think they’re the only people who call her emotionless which can easily be chalked up to their self-hate and terrible self-esteems.

Katniss is so afraid they’re gonna make her be naked for the parade 😭. Honestly though they’re children that’s so creepy that they’re even allowed to make 15/16/17 year olds be naked in a parade. I mean I know they kill kids every year but isn’t there like child pornography laws in Panem? 😭

“You’re not afraid of fire, are you, Katniss?” Is so foreshadowing 😭😂😅😎 Caesar Flickerman’s voice “Katniss Everdeen, the girl on fire!”

Honestly though Cinna is smart to make Katniss recognizable in the arena by leaving her with simple makeup. I know and the sky is blue we all know this already beating the dead horses until the farmer comes home.

“It crosses my mind that Cinna's calm and normal demeanor masks a complete madman.” It’s true though 😅😅😅😭😭 he was always a rebel. I actually think he may have asked for District Twelve after Katniss volunteered, because he saw the potential in her. Poor Peeta. Baby, I’m rooting you for even if no one else is.

Also I always found it a bit .... curious? That Peeta had a female stylist and Katniss had a male one? Not just because of the required nudity, you’d just think men would do better as a boy’s stylist and a woman would make a better girl’s stylist. So yes, my whole Cinna was interested in District Twelve because Katniss seemed like a good symbol for a rebellion idea seems very plausible.

I know I know I know I read wayyy too much into this stuff sometimes a cigarette 🚬 is just a cigarette 🚬

Katniss being relieved when Peeta shows up 😭😭😭 because even if she won’t admit it and even if she won’t let herself trust him, she still sees him unconsciously and completely against her will as a comfort because they’re in this thing together in a way, even if they’re supposed to try and kill each other

And honestly, it’s such a like... relatable feeling? To feel alone and nervous and uptight and then someone who you recognize — even if you maybe aren’t even friends with but you at least know — shows up and you just instantly feel less alone. I’m totally looking at this through shipper goggles and I’m not even ashamed you all knew who’s blogging you were reading ight? 😂🤣🤷🏼‍♀️

“He should know about fire, being a baker's son and all.” And he’s gonna learn a lot more about it when he falls in love — for real, falls in love, not a childhood infatuation — with the girl on fire. 🥰🥰🥰

But also, I love this particular line on a reread because it totally is an indicator towards their future. Like Peeta knows about fire, he’s experienced with how to handle it, and later on, he becomes the only person who truly comes to understand Katniss, who represents fire, in a way that no one else could ever imagine.

Hmmm, Katniss’ point of view here, talking about how Portia and Peeta’s team seem all giddy and air-headed and it’s only Cinna who seems reserved makes me rethink my previous imaginings of Peeta’s stylist. Maybe she’s just a Capitolite idiot and nothing like Cinna. And my baby got a raw deal here then too. Good thing Haymitch loves him more. Just kidding 😅😅😅

But also I wanna know why Cinna is hesitant to accept congratulations for his and Portia’s idea? Wasn’t he at least lowkey excited about it when he pitched it a page ago?

Their horses are coal black 🐴 😅. I like that they went the whole nine yards with the theme. Nothing but the best for the kids on Death Row.

Aww Katniss asking Peeta what he thinks about being set on fire is so sweet and pure for some reason. I just find their commodore here cute ok

“I'll rip off your cape if you'll rip off mine” this is literally their first friend type of interaction and it’s so pure y’all leave me be I’m emotional for them

🙃 Also lowkey reminds me of “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.” Everyone look away ok I’m sorry

Peeta’s shady/annoyed Haymitch comment and Katniss’ joke at his expense 🤣🤣😂🤣😂😂🥲🥲☺️🥲🥲 they’re bonding it’s so presh

“And suddenly we're both laughing.” I hope they laugh a lot together post-canon 🥲🥲🥲. If they can make the other laugh during their terrible circumstances, then they can make the other laugh anywhere. 🤧 Except in Thirteen because he’s hijacked and she’s certifiable and they’re both so used and abused and 🥺🥺🥺🥺

Okay I have to say, Suzanne Collins really builds up a lot for certain events and then just like grazes over the actual action of said event? Like she builds towards the tribute parade but then kind of rushes through off the actual event itself? It’s a common theme in her writing. And I don’t like it at all ngl.

Oh wait she doesn’t actually rush the parade events the paragraph before just looked like she was about to I jumped the gun 🤣😂🤭 but what I said is still completely true for many events in these books sorry not sorry

I’m definitely reading too much into it but the fact that District One — the favorite of the Capitol — gets snow white horses and District Twelve gets coal black horsies kind of ... seems to imply something .... 🤭

Cinna just lets out a sigh of relief “it worked” like ... way to fill your tributes with hope, dude. “Yeah, you’re totally safe, don’t be scared-OH THANK GOD THAT WORKED I wasn’t actually sure you wouldn’t blow up.” But actually this answers my previous inquiry about why he seemed hesitant I guess he wasn’t even sure this wouldn’t burn them up that’s nice 🤭🙃

It’s a literal trial by fire *cue drum hit* 🥁 aww, I just cracked myself up 😭

“Then he gently tucks a hand under my chin. "Remember, heads high. Smiles. They're going to love you!" This is caught halfway between being very Capitol-y and very father-brotherly and idk which way to take it but it’s kind of cute 🤭

“For the first time, I look at him and realize that ablaze with the fake flames, he is dazzling.” This is such a significant line because Katniss isn’t saying Peeta is technically good looking (like when Haymitch said they were decently attractive) or someone else thinks he’s good looking (i.e Gale, her mother and lowkey Finnick) but she’s saying she herself thinks he’s attractive. Girl, your crush is showing.

"I think he said for us to hold hands," says Peeta.” I’m sure Cinna actually did say that but this just seems like a very good opportunity for Peeta to hold the hand of the girl he has a massive crush on. 😭😭😭

Okay Cinna gave a thumbs up so he actually was saying that but can you imagine Peeta’s excitement right now?

I mean, yeahhhh, there’s the certain death looming over him too but like live in the moment, babe. 🥰😘🤗👌🏻

I like that Katniss says the crowd is at first like 😳😳😳 before they start cheering like they’re thinking “what are these backwoods, hillbilly kids doing this year?”

“At first, I'm frozen, but then I catch sight of us on a large television screen and am floored by how breathtaking we look. In the deepening twilight, the firelight illuminates our faces” okay they both have to be pretty naturally attractive people objectively, because you illuminate my face without much makeup and no one is gonna be cheering.

“Remember, heads high. Smiles. They're going to love you! I hear Cinna's voice in my head. I lift my chin a bit higher, put on my most winning smile, and wave with my free hand.” I wonder what the true difference is for Katniss between Cinna and Effie saying this to her? Maybe it’s that Effie is just outright mean to her sometimes whereas Cinna shows her nothing but kindness from the start and expresses sympathy and understanding? It’s probably that he’s already earning her trust versus Effie who’s just cruel I’m not over her comments on the train ok

“I'm glad now I have Peeta to clutch for balance, he is so steady, solid as a rock.” Right from the start, Katniss refers to Peeta as solid and steady. Idk, I feel like this is something that the movies really misses along the way. Katniss wasn’t always strong or confident at all and Peeta, at least publicly, exuded those qualities pretty well. Samantha’s complaining again ™️ 💁🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

Also this is just outright foreshadowing how Peeta will eventually become her rock. Or that he will be soon painted a rock ... pick and choose which way you wanna go with this. 🤷🏼‍♀️💁🏼‍♀️😅🤣

“As I gain confidence, I actually blow a few kisses to the crowd.” Okay, see I feel like Peeta really gives Katniss confidence in herself. If he’d been there in District Thirteen and they’d done propos together, she probably would have been a thousand times better.

But also this makes me think Katniss actually has it in her to be a charismatic, confident, alluring celebrity. She just chooses not to. 🤗🤗🤗

But this also reminds me of “She has no idea the effect she can have” okay imma move on and stop focusing on every little detail

I say that every chapter 🤧😅

“The pounding music, the cheers, the admiration work their way into my blood, and I can't suppress my excitement.” Say whatever you want, Katniss is still such a girl underneath it all. She gets excited over people liking her and cheering her on. And I know it’s because it increases her chances of getting sponsors but still

Honestly Peeta trying to showcase Katniss and let her take the spotlight is so selfless and indicative of his ultimate plan to help her win but also ... I can see how Katniss would believe it’s too good to be true and he’s messing with her. That he’s just playing the game to earn her trust, get her guard down and manipulate her later.

See, Peeta is actually framed at the start like the typical, standard YA love interest turned villain. In majority of YA books, at this point the boy is kind and sweet and helpful to the girl until she trusts him completely and then he turns on her and uses everything she gave him to destroy her. But the difference is, Katniss refuses to truly trust him and she is guessing his game incorrectly at every step. And then it’s revealed that it was never a game and he truly isn’t messing with her and everything he’s done that’s seem too good to be true and not even remotely plausible has actually been genuine and heartfelt and that, my friends, is why Peeta is above all other YA love interests. Because Everlark is actually the foil to many of the cliches. That was a long speech over some incoherent thoughts I’m so sorry if you suffered through that.

“It's not until we enter the City Circle that I realize I must have completely stopped the circulation in Peeta's hand. That's how tightly I've been holding it.” Awww he is her rock 😭🤧🥺

"No, don't let go of me," he says. The firelight flickers off his blue eyes. "Please. I might fall out of this thing." Okay this part is so cute and so blatantly setting Peeta up as her main love interest omg 😅 this isn’t the least bit subtle or disguised. But first off, the fact that Katniss is also Peeta’s stability here too 😭😭😭 and second of all, she takes time to notice his blue eyes against the firelight? She was attracted to him from the very start, y’all. That’s indisputable. 👌🏻😎🤧

“It's not really fair to present us as a team and then lock us into the arena to kill each other.” I agree with you, baby, it’s not fair at all. But you two take care of that situation nicely. Or not. Y’all do start a dang war. 🤭🤭🙃🙃

It’s rather ... ironic that it’s District Twelve’s chariot of them all that is pulled up and stopped directly in front of President Snow’s mansion. I know it’s a book, certain details like this are definitively contrived, I know get over it. 🤦🏼‍♀️💁🏼‍♀️

So uh. Snow is a small thin man? Why do I suddenly imagine Danny Devito as Snow 😅😅😅😅🤣🤣🤣🤣 y’all know he’d kill the role

“The darker it becomes, the more difficult it is to take your eyes off our flickering.” Okay, this is such a great line and it’s so significant to the rest of the series? The fact that Katniss — and Peeta, let’s not forget our boy — became symbols of the revolution. Like this line is deep if you think about it. The worse things in Panem got, the more the civilians looked towards Katniss and Peeta for hope 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥰🥰🥰🥰

Omg now after Songbirds and Snakes, we know the national anthem. I’m sorry, babies, that you have to endure that I’ll get you out of there 🙉🙉🙉

I feel like in part, the Capitol camera crew — Cressida, Pollux .... Pollux’s brother... is that you here???? — put so much attention on District Twelve because it would create some resentment and competition between them and the careers 🤭🤗

“I notice a lot of the other tributes are shooting us dirty looks, which confirms what I've suspected, we've literally outshone them all.” Insert Gretchen Wieners “I can’t help that I’m popular!” 😅😅😅😅😅

“I realize I'm still glued to Peeta and force my stiff fingers to open. We both massage our hands.” — they were hanging on so tight 😭😭😭😭

“Thanks for keeping hold of me.” He’s so sweet ☺️☺️☺️ I love him even if he’s kind of an idiot sometimes but so is Katniss so let’s not point fingers

“I'm sure they didn't notice anything but you. [...] And then he gives me a smile that seems so genuinely sweet with just the right touch of shyness” Omg I know Katniss views this as him trying to manipulate her but the fact that he’s actually just admitting the way he’s felt for years is so 😭😭😭😭 if only you’d spit it out sooner, Bready

“he gives me a smile that seems so genuinely sweet with just the right touch of shyness that unexpected warmth rushes through me.” She literally has a crush on her fellow tribute and her first line of defense is to decide he out to get her for making her feel this way 🤣😭🙃

“The more likable he is, the more deadly he is.” The more my crush grows, the more deadly he becomes. I know I’m reading this with shipper goggles but guess what? I’m unashamed. 🤷🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️ who feels guilty for reading this book with an Everlark bias not this girl right here 🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️

“I stand on tiptoe and kiss his cheek. Right on his bruise.” Okay first off, she says cheek here but according to a chapter ago, she claimed the mark was on his jaw... so in other words, she’s incredibly short. If a medium height guy has a bruise on his jaw and she has to stand on her tip toe to reach it... well... hashtag LittleKatniss

And second off.... can you even imagine how Peeta must feel. He genuinely complimented her here, the girl he has had a crush on forever, and she responds by kissing his cheek. He was probably really happy at this moment. And also this probably played further into his buying into her false display in the arena. That here we have her clutching his hand, smiling and laughing with him and kissing his cheek. Idk what I was trying to say necessarily but I made myself sad wow way to go me 🥺🥺🥺🥺🤧🤧🤧

Anyways! Those are my very over the top and too detailed thoughts! Hope you enjoyed if you read this! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳😎😎😎😎😎😎😎🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

[marisandini-chu-blog]

Bruce Wayne is a Simp for Bad Bitch

OmG I can’t believe I’m writing the obvious but the idea is in my head and I need a place to word vomit. 

Okay, so it occurred to me that Bruce has a more serious and intense relationship canonically with three women, as far as I know; Andrea Beaumont, Talia Al’ghul, and Selina Kyle. All of whom are the epitome of Bad Bitch with the capital B. (Yes, I’m ignoring Rachel Dawes from Nolanverse. The only thing I like about it is the Iconic Joker. No batman movie is good enough without the Batfam.) 

Why do I raise this point, you might ask? Well, that’s because I want to rant that Bruce, my boy, my man, my childhood comfort character is actually a SIMP?!?!

Like... I’m just... urgh.... okay... I am very vocal for a healthy relationship with commitment and based on mutual love and respect. So the fact that Bruce has only bad, iffy, or casual relationships really want to tear my hair out. And why my heart don’t want to ship with any of them, even though BatCat is one of my favorite pairing! 

I am a WonderBat shipper because I love watching them in JLAU as a kid and even though I’m not slash shipper unless it’s canon, SuperBat made much more sense to me. Heck even a threesome with the Trinity would have been healthier relationship rather than whatever Bruce had with the three of them and here’s why: 

You might not have heard of Andrea, but she’s canon from the Timmverse movie called Batman and the Mask of Phantasm which is A REALLY GREAT MOVIE. Totally recommend. One of the best Batman movie at all times (Yes, I say Batman movies not Batman Animated movies). Has great plot twist and good pacing. so Spoiler Alert! Andrea was Bruce’s fiancé, making her possibly Bruce’s first love, before his journey and possibly could have stop him from becoming Batman (I would say he’s a simp in this case, but he would have had a much more happier, healthy household so it’s not bad thing) if she hadn’t disappear for being a Mob Boss’ Daughter!!! 

I repeat, a mob boss’ daughter. 

And she came back only to be a mask avenging assassin that went toe-to-toe with Batman.

And she could have choose to stay with Bruce but she didn’t because she choose vengeance over him. Like.... Bats, you should stop with the “I am Vengeance” routine you’ve got going on because she does it better than you ngl. 

So she left and I cried at the end of that movie because trauma wasn’t enough, you put heartbreak after heartbreak to my boy. Thanks DC. 

Then there’s Fucking Talia Al’ghul which is a no brainer why she’s not Bad but BAD. Like, Talia groom Jason, supervise Damian’s harsh, brutal, and abusive training, control Damian through the implant spine to kill Dick, orders Damian execution before regretting it, DRUG BRUCE when CONCEIVING DAMIAN!!! And that’s only the top of my head. 

And if you want to blame it on Morrison’s writing, THAT’S FINE. We’ve bitched about Tom King’s writing enough to know it’s valid. 

But, BUT, bUt... it needs to be address that even before Morrison, Talia CHOOSE to stay in the League of Assassin. People can tell me that she’s a complex character that’s loyal to her father but love Bruce and that her upbringing makes her complicated or whatever. Nuh-uh. You don’t get to make Talia helpless when it suited you. Talia is a fucking Bad Bitch (TM). She’s been taught to do whatever the fuck she wants according to her belief and ideal. At some point, Talia knew she wanted to be in position of power in the League rather than staying with Bruce. 

But it’s canon that Talia, if I remember correctly, doesn’t like Gotham or Bruce’s mission. She thinks being a hero is beneath them or whatever. And doesn’t understand why Gotham is special to Bruce. So yeah, you might not agree how Morrisons write her. But do not fucking tell me she’s not a character who will not be willing to do what she thinks it’s necessary to get what she wants, including training her son as an assassin. I mean, she likes being the Demon’s Daughter in the league. She may not agree with her father but Talia wants to give Damien what she wants. Power.  

Talia loves Bruce. That’s a fact. He’s probably the only person that makes her feel like she’s a person instead of the Demon’s Daughter. Bruce has a knack for that. To make people want to be better, even just a little. Talia could have chosen him, if she wanted to. The fact that she helps him so much when fighting against her father numerous times is proof enough. 

I'm highly suspecting the reason she stays is because she knows Bruce would always forgive her (SIMP ALERT) unlike her father who would straight up stab her if she ever betrays him.

I’m not saying there’s no love for her son, I’m just saying if she even looks at the batfam funny than I will raise my flamethrower on that bitch’s face. Because you can’t rely on Bruce on that. That man would give bullshit excuse for her or want to handle her himself because your “history” with her makes you entitled.  

Aaaah, don’t you just love it when there’s a great villain you can hate on so much?

I'm not saying she can't be a good person. Pre-morisson made Talia more of an anti-hero. But I do like Talia "I'mma cut a bitch" al'ghul. It's just... I like ruthless Bad Bitch like her. Though preferably she could have balance it with more of her maternal side through Damian.

Okay, I’m getting off tangent. Now comes to my favorite girl. Catwoman. Selina Kyle. The famous ship of all Bruce’s relationship sans SuperBat. 

I... am conflicted the most about this. 

See, Selina is one of the few people who understands Bruce. Who was there when he needed a shoulder to rely on. Someone who doesn’t take Bruce’s shit, and one of the constant person in Bruce’s life. 

But not... constant enough. Which is a theme of her, even in her fursona... I, I mean PERSONA, PERSONA!!! 

Anyway, I love seeing these two broken people. One handles it with violence and vigilantism, the other through thieving with a Robinhood-esque thing going on. So of course they get each other. It always helps that they try to make each other better. Selina taught Bruce to be okay of being selfish of wanting to be happy, and Bruce believed there’s good in her that makes her feel she’s not a hopeless case, y’know? It’s even canon that in one universe, they’re married and have daughter, Helena Wayne. So... yeah? Happy end! (Until they died but that’s non issue here at the moment.) 

Then Tom King (Urgh, him again) wrote Bat proposing to Cat, and by the time they’re about to be married. Selina left him at the altar. 

So yeah. 

But then they get metaphysically? Figuratively? married after the Flashpoint which they turn Thomas Wayne into a villain (At least make him from alternate universe instead of timeline!!!) and kill Alfred (WhYYYYYY?! Bruce suffered enough why do you go kill both his fathers dammit!!! Let the goddamn butler rest in peace). And basically Selina and Bruce promise each other forever. Which is sweet. BatCat Forever, am I right??? 

Yeah, here’s the problem. (And I’m just nitpicking here, okay). For all Tom King’s character assassination of Bruce, he did Selina right in one thing. Which is the fact she doesn’t like being tied down by anything.

If Talia puts importance in power. Selina puts importance in freedom and her self-independence. 

I remember as a kid watching BTAS, that Selina didn’t want a relationship with batman if it meant changing who she is. So when Selina left the altar, I wasn’t surprise at the news. Then she actually agreed to marry him, only this time, she didn’t need a judge or a paper to make the marriage legit, y’know. And I thought, yeah that’s so her. 

But the thing is Bruce. Accepts. Her. Every. Single. Time. 

Without a single thought. She asked, “Do you still want to get married?” and he asked “When?” 

Even though it’s not the first that Cat leaves him hanging. 

Tell me he’s not a simp for that. 

It’s great that he accepts her for everything she is. But I’m conflicted because Selina stays static. She stays with the cat theme in the fact she doesn’t want to held back by anything. She takes what she wants. She loves who she loves. And no one was gonna change her. But then where’s the character growth? 

Is it regressive of me to think Selina should be ‘tied down’ or express commitment when she never has been tied down before even though she loves Bruce? 

Is it not-feminist of me to think Selina has to change herself for a man? 

I just don’t like the fact Bruce and Selina enables their masked persona. Their relationship is strongly base on their cat-and-mouse chase. They nicknamed each other “Bat” and “Cat” for God’s sake. Even though yes, it’s canon that “Batman” and “Catwoman” is their real selves and their civilian life is their masks. Heck, she didn’t go for the altar because she believed (though manipulated) that making Bruce happy would make Batman insufficient, or losing him entirely (Thank Tom King for that). 

That would be true, and stay true if not for one thing. Which is some thing what Bruce has that Selina doesn’t: 

The Batfam.

Bruce’s real identity isn’t just the Batman anymore. He has to be a single father with growing children he never plan to adopt but did anyway because they needed each other. He can’t use his batman persona to be a father at his house, but he will when training them to be his partner. His family became the strength to Bruce’s fight for Justice. 

Bruce is the Batman, but he’s not everything who he is. Selina is supposed to be part of the batfamily yet sadly, I haven’t read or watch anything that has her interact with them in a positive way or actually bond with them. Heck, when Alfred inform the proposal to the batfam they were shocked and thought it was a bad idea even (And they’ve known her for almost half their life by the way.) 

The fact that Tom King implied Bruce was never happy or wasn’t happy enough without marrying Cat when his Batfam should be the source of his pride and joy?! Apparently family means nothing to Batman. Woah DC, what a great message you’re sending here. 

I guess that’s why, I was a bit iffy when Selina “marriage” with Bruce isn’t official. Because she commits to the man but she doesn’t say she’ll commit to the family (though I suppose it could be imply or I just forget stuff). The batkids are grown up enough that they don’t really need a maternal figure, but that doesn’t mean they don’t need more emotionally available people in the family. And that I haven’t seen much of her taking effort to bond with the people that’s the most important to Bruce. 

It just makes her want to commit to Batman instead of Bruce Wayne, in my eyes I guess. 

So yeah, that’s why Wonderbat and Superbat makes more sense to me. Because they’ll make an effort to be THERE for the family and they’ll be just generally be a healthier relationships because, again, emotionally available so they might talk when they have a problem instead of running off the altar when you think a Happy Batman is Bad Batman. But no, DC have to make Bruce is a simp and his life edgy. 

Anyway, I might be wrong in some things because, you know. Canon becomes a blur to me after a while. 

[carol-effing-danvers]

Steve Rogers is a Monster

Yeah, that’s a hell of a title, isn’t it? Strap in, it only gets worse from here. 

(click here if you’d prefer to read this on AO3)

Forewarning, if you enjoyed the epilogue for Endgame, this particular essay is not for you - and no, I am not bashing the Steve/Peggy shippers, you are beautiful human beings who make the fandom brighter and I’m happy that at least someone in this fandom got the ending they wanted.

Additional warning: if you expect this to be another Civil War debate, you will also be disappointed. There has never been a measurement invented that can adequately describe how much I loathe the verbal dick measuring contest that seems to pass for human interaction between Tony Stark and Steve Rogers in this franchise. It’s not funny or entertaining - it’s exhausting, uncomfortable, and frankly it’s rather lazy writing.

This is about the very specific way that the epilogue in Endgame completely changed the way the character of Steve Rogers can be interpreted, and I don’t just mean the very illogical and contradictory way that time travel is explained, both in the movie itself and the fact that the writers and directors have two completely different views on how that worked out. 

I mean that the choice made by Steve Rogers in the very last minutes of that movie alters the way I view each and every one of his actions starting from The First Avenger and that alteration is exactly what I want to talk about, because whether you view it as deserving or not, what Steve does at the conclusion of Endgame was the most selfish thing humanly possible. Time is a thief, but somehow Steve managed to steal even more than Time.

Side note here: I understand that I am a completely biased Stucky shipper, a friend to Barnes and Noble, a Starbucks aficionado - sorry. Anyway, I’ve always believed that Steve and Bucky were destined blah blah blah, but I was never expecting a Stucky ending. Disney wasn’t going to do that, and I knew that, I wasn’t bothered that Steve and Bucky weren’t doing the smoochies by the end. But Bucky’s facial expression during those last minutes was gut-wrenching. Like...I have no idea what kind of cues the script and directors gave him, but in the future, please don’t ask Sebastian Stan to look sad unless you want soul-crushing devastation. It’s not Seb’s fault, his features are just arranged that way - but the fact that the editing staff allowed Sam to be sad though elated to be entrusted with the Shield and Bucky looked like his soul was being physically torn out of his body was an… interesting choice. 

Other side note: if you’re writing about time travel, I’m begging y’all to get your facts straight. Or just don’t write about time travel. It almost always sounds better on paper than it does on screen and it means that you’ve opened doors to more questions than you’ve probably got the answers for. I know this was about trying to set up the idea of the multiverse, I get that, but there were better and less messy ways to do that, and I know that because I’ve done it before. @Marvel: Let me write you a six-way orgy you fucking cowards~

By going back in time, Steve robbed Peggy of the future that would have been hers - not only that, he’s robbed her of even the chance of making the choice between those futures, because you honestly could not tell me with a straight face that Steve told her the complete truth of what he had done and she would be okay with him alternating the very course of the future. It doesn’t help his case that he has a history of not disclosing truths that he knows will be painful or inconvenient for other people in his life.

He robbed his loved ones - Sam, Bucky, Wanda - of the years they would have spent with him. Sure, he ‘came back’ after Peggy passed away, but they are adults in the prime of youth who knew him sixty years ago in his own time and he is an old, old man who has lived an entire life completely separated from them. He is practically a stranger with a name they know, but a history that no longer belongs to any of them - not even his oldest friend. They have him back, but judging from his age, they’ll be lucky to get even ten more years with him. Assuming of course, that any of them can stand to speak to him - I certainly couldn’t blame them if they tell him to go to hell and take his dad jokes with him. 

Steve has stolen away their friend and dropped off an elderly and dying near-stranger in his place, and this is treated by the writing (and the majority of the acting) as a wild and unexpected but not tragic event. 

Is it really that unexpected, though?

I recall seeing a Game of Thrones essay on Daenerys across my dash (I’m sorry, love, I don’t recall who you are since it’s not a fandom I’m in, but if someone knows who wrote that, please post the link!) which detailed how her ending in the series was foreshadowed many times by her penchant for bloody killings and her habit of surrounding herself with her own fawning friends.

Months after reading that, I had the thought: though Steve is never really shown thinking about Peggy after Civil War, except in a few scattered scenes in Endgame, was this foreshadowed? Whether you believe that his actions are justified or not, what Steve does is still, in the end, selfish at its very heart, and Steve Rogers is not a selfish person. 

Oh no, my dear friends and readers. Because taking this action has solidified and clarified Steve Rogers as the biggest and most selfish asshole in this whole universe.

Steve does not do the right thing, Steve does the thing that will most make him feel better. The fact that this often happens to be the right thing in the end is more the result of happy coincidence than any special sort of moral authority that the man holds. 

Rescuing Bucky Barnes and his fellow captives in a prisoner of war camp from being experimented on by an insane Nazi eugenicist? That was not a moral stand, that was endangering himself, Peggy Carter, and Howard Stark because he couldn’t handle the reality of his best friend being killed in war.

Sacrificing himself by putting the Valkyrie down in the Arctic Circle? That was not about sparing human lives, that was about Steve seeing his friend die right in front of him and not being able to deal with the grief. There were ways he could’ve prevented the plane from killing people without killing himself.

Trying to make Bucky remember who he was? And later on, saving him from the government agencies who wanted to hunt him down? Although, arguably, that last one is also just good common sense - Steve was already shown that government agencies could and were corrupted by HYDRA and he’d also seen how dangerous the Winter Soldier could be when unleashed. 

Steve did, I think, truly believe that this was the right thing to do, but it was also about keeping his connection - his very last, since Peggy had descended into dementia caused by Alzheimer’s before she ultimately died - to a past that for him, was only months or years ago, rather than decades. In some ways, this is completely understandable - Bucky might be the very last person left alive who truly knows who the real Steve Rogers is, because the rest of these people only know Captain America and we are consistently shown through multiple movies how uncomfortable this makes him.

This gets...considerably less and less understandable as we are shown Steve’s growing relationships with Natasha, Sam, Wanda - even Sharon, though she barely gets any screen time and they share the most awkward kiss I’ve ever seen - and indeed, what might be the most uncomfortable kiss in cinema history.

Side Note 3: This is made even more awkward by the director’s choice to have two of Steve’s friends watching them the whole time - seriously, who even does that? Why would you make them do that? Only sociopaths make out with their friends staring at them like that. It’s so fucking creepy - and don’t even get me fucking started on the fact that she’s also apparently his own niece. AHHHHH!

But we are shown, over and over again, that Steve is capable of building close meaningful relationships with people in the present. They don’t know his whole history, but they do know Steve Rogers rather than Captain America and they care about him deeply. 

Side Note 4: Notice that I don’t count Tony Stark among those people - despite this strangely persistent narrative that the various writers and directors tried to sell to the audience, Tony and Steve were not friends. They were never friends. They were colleagues at best, but these were two men who neither liked nor understood each other very well, but had to work together. And sometimes that’s okay, too. (Oh dear, I just gave the Stony fans a fit too, didn’t I? Sorry, guys. Enemies to Lovers is a great trope, I support you!)

But let’s set aside Steve’s gross betrayal of the people who loved him. We’ll also ignore the question of whether the motive for these good actions has tainted the actions themselves. Because even without questioning these, the conclusion of this story arc still transforms Steve into the biggest monster this franchise has. 

The very fundamental way that the writers and directors can’t agree on how the time travel mechanics in their own story work mean that Steve has just done one of two things and they range from shady and very questionable to absolutely fucking horrific. 

The first, that he’s created his own alternate universe to exist in, is morally dubious at best. Even the people who support this theory and liked the ending seem to feel that it wasn’t necessarily a ten out of ten on the moral goodness spectrum. They’ll say things like ‘he deserved to have his happy ending’. Even that phrasing seems to acknowledge that doing this was the opposite of the right thing. It just considers doing the wrong thing as being justified rather than horrifying. 

But let’s examine this first idea for a minute - even this, the more innocent of the two implications, means that rather than really processing his grief or dealing with the repeated tragedies and losses that have occured in his life, even as he was running group therapy sessions and grief counseling, Steve Rogers chose to escape his current life by creating an alternate universe that specifically allows he himself to live out his own fucking fantasies of the way his life should have turned out. 

That, in case you are not aware, is wildly fucked up. I thought I was playing pretty fast and loose with Steve’s characterization when I turned him into an extremely polite serial killer but as it turns out, I clearly just wasn’t setting the bar high enough, because that’s somehow even more fucked up than being an undercover child soldier with a small sadistic streak. 

Hm, and now I feel I should have been more creative there...

The second, and even more horrifying option, is that this older Steve Rogers has been in this world the whole time, watching as things unfolded just as we’ve seen over the past decade, taking ‘the slow way’ through time. 

Side Note 5: I do kind of understand why you would do it this way, because that’s really cool and shocking when you say that! Until you think about it for longer than three seconds and suddenly you realize…

Everything that has happened here, every tragedy and downfall these people experienced, happened because Steve Rogers lived his happily ever after with his beautiful wife and did absolutely nothing to stop it. He got to fuck Peggy Carter and watched as his wife built an empire of intelligence networks, knowing that her efforts were completely in vain because her agency was rotten to the core and he never told her.

Every horrifying act committed by HYDRA under the guise of SHIELD was permitted through Steve Rogers’ negligence. And that’s just the wider big-picture worldview, large and shocking, but not personal. 

What about the people that Steve claims to actually care about? 

This means that Steve lived his whole life in contentment with his wife and children while his best friend was physically and psychologically tortured for over seventy years and just...let that go. 

He allowed one friend to murder another in the nineties, when the Winter Soldier was sent after Howard and Maria Stark. Then their child was being advised by a greedy self-interested warmonger who paid terrorists to drag him off to be tortured and slaughtered, and Steve did nothing about that, either. 

Bruce Banner was exploited, experimented on, and made into a monster against his will in the failed pursuit of recreating what was done to Steve, resulting in billions of dollars in damage and dozens or even hundreds of lives lost, and Steve allowed that to happen, too. 

Like Bucky Barnes, Natasha Romanov was physically and psychologically tortured for others to use her as a living weapon - except that this was probably happening to her since early childhood, and a man her future self loved and trusted implicitly did nothing to save her from this upbringing. 

The Maximoff twins are shown to have not wealthy but loving parents who are murdered in front of them and they both endure days of laying in the rubble of their ruined apartment, wondering if the bomb in their living room would go off and kill them. Later, they are taken in by HYDRA, experimented on, and recruited as child soldiers to the cause when they show signs of having supernatural powers. They start a series of events that result in the destruction of a major city and the loss of what is probably thousands of lives. Pietro is murdered while trying to help the Avengers to stop this, and Wanda suffers the loss of the very last living person she loved. None of these things seem to have bothered Future Steve. 

Steve “I can’t sit on the sidelines when I see a situation go sideways” Rogers, planted himself on that fucking sideline and observed for nearly eighty years as friends, colleagues, and his own wife were lied to, brainwashed, tortured, vilified, and hunted down like animals.

And then there Steve Rogers himself - not the Endgame Steve Rogers, the Steve Rogers who brought down a Nazi plane and will lie beneath the ice for seventy years while everything he knows disappear (mostly) innocent of these horrors, the life he would’ve lived stolen from him by a stranger with his name and his face from another universe.

What I’m saying here is that if you consider this idea for any amount of time, it took Steve Rogers less than ten minutes to become the most evil and disturbing figure in the entire MCU, only (not really tho) contested by Thanos himself. 

Gross and poorly reasoned libertarian ethics aside, Thanos genuinely believes that he did what he did for the sake of the entire population. It’s made fairly explicitly clear that Steve didn’t do this for anyone but himself. 

Call me crazy, but if everyone you know needs to suffer and multiple planet-wide devestations have to happen in order for you to get your happy ending, you might be the bad guy. 

Maybe I’m just old-fashioned?

[graphicabyss]

I watched The Falcon And The Winter Soldier and I liked it more that I expected, although frankly I didn't expect much. Overall, I love the setting, the cinematography and the character development. The director and the writers did an excellent job. But it also sent me down an emotional roller-coaster and that's the thing I really need to talk about.

I know there are countless rants about TFATWS, Endgame, queerbaiting and poor MCU narratives but I've never really been hanging out in the fandom until recently so for me it's my first one and I need to get it off my chest. It's gonna be long.

It was interesting to see where the show's gonna take things but start to end there was an elephant in the room. It doesn't sit well with me the way they completely sidestepped the Steve Rogers issue. Like, "we didn't make this mess, so we're not gonna go there". And it's just wrong. You can't just avoid the subject altogether and pass it on for future writers to handle. Also, you see Bucky so sad and lonely it breaks your heart. And this inevitably made me think about Endgame and Cap's storyline. I didn't feel like writing it all down after Endgame but now all these thoughts and feelings came up again and I need to get it off my chest. If they ended it all at Endgame, and I thought they did, it would have been fine, sort of. We'd forgive some loose ends. But they didn't end it there and that makes them fully responsible for this mess. I mean, I didn't hate Cap's ending. After all, it could have been worse. Steve could get together with Sharon like in the comics and they probably considered it at some point but the reactions were so bad they backed down and dragged Peggy along. Still, the ending just felt forced, no matter how you look at it. The thing is, if I knew about it after the first movie, I'd rejoice. But at this point, after everything that went down after, it just doesn't feel right.  I love Peggy and I can't deny the dance scene made me flutter a little but now I wish this was Steve's way to keep his promise before going back. In the end, Peggy would be fine without him. She had a good life, she made a career and a family. We know that thanks to Agent Carter. And we got many cues that Steve and Peggy's relationship, as important as it was, was over. Her saying goodbye to him by destroying the serum, him carrying her casket... Yet, Endgame effectively undermined that basically erasing all of these events from existence and making Peggy just a prize for Captain America.  On the other hand, Bucky needed Steve the most. And the show made it clear how bruised and broken he was. Bucky and Steve's relationship was the closest of any relationship in the MCU. At that point it was clear Bucky was everything to him, the only one who could truly understand him. Steve lost him many times and every time he fought to bring him back, no matter how impossible it seemed. When Bucky was captured Steve went into an enemy base alone on a suicidal mission and saved him and everyone else. That's basically how he became Captain America. Then Bucky got killed in the war and it devastated him. Bucky returned as Winter Soldier and there was hardly any Bucky left in him but Steve nearly let himself be killed because he needed to save him and he trusted that James would not hurt him. When Bucky finally got to his senses, there was an ultimate war going on and in the Snap James fell to dust in front of Steve's eyes. It took 5 years to get him back. And as soon as Steve succeeded, he left him, along with the rest of his traumatized friends and the world in deep chaos, to be with Peggy in 1940's, thus throwing 12 years of his life away. It just didn't feel right. That does a disservice to both Steve and Peggy's storylines. But it's not just about Peggy or Bucky. Steve going back and living his life to return to that park as an old man has opened a rift with a host of questions. I tried to get to the bottom of it but it got me nowhere.  According to Russo, when Steve went back he created an alternate reality. He also retired as Captain America. First off, I think he just made that up after to cover up the mess. If that was the case, Cap would return to the designated spot and not be sitting on a bench like he was waiting there all along. But, like, even if it was alternate reality, it could not be that different, right? He wouldn't just live in Peggy's basement, would he? He knew about the things to come like, you know, the HYDRA thing, and being the man that he was, he couldn't just sit and do nothing. Especially when Peggy was one of the founders of the SHIELD. Captain America or not, Steve would do everything to make this world a

better place. Also, if Steve went back after he crashed that plane, that means there's another Steve still locked in ice, which Russo confirmed. Even more importantly, in Steve's timeline Bucky is still with Hydra being tortured. There's no way he could leave him there. So much for the 'quiet life'. Then there are the writers of Endgame who claim that Peggy's two children are fathered by Steve. Really? That directly contradicts the earlier version that the father is a soldier Steve saved, which is shown in Agent Carter. Seriously, guys, if you're gonna make up random bullshit at least get your stories straight first.   Fans love to make all sorts of theories to try and patch up the holes but the truth is, MCU is not just one mastermind's creation and the comics weren't either. It's bound to be a mess because it's created by dozens of writers and directors and each phase gets increasingly messier because it has to fit in with the 547 previously released movies and shows. I get that and I applaud the effort of Endgame but they really can't expect us to get involved with the characters only to see them being treated as an afterthought. And the thing is, I thought that it might be just me but after a quick survey of the fandom I realized that a lot of people feel the same way. If you look at the comment section of nearly any relevant video, you're gonna get top comments saying all these things. If Marvel listened just once maybe things would make more sense. And all these thoughts aren't necessarily what I wanted to see, but what would be right for the characters. And while I do love Stucky, I'm a reasonable shipper and I really didn't expect them to be canon gay or anything, I just wished they had at least spent some time together not fighting, just healing and catching up on their lives. Honestly, I don't always like the way people ship m/m characters in every show but this time it was really more than justified. The whole storyline going through Winter Soldier and Civil War was just massive queerbaiting. It was undeniably a love story, romantic or not. "Why do you ship male characters?" some people ask. Idk, maybe if the writers put half the effort into developing m/f relationships as they do m/m ones and not just randomly throw them together I might care about them. And MCU was terrible with romance. That traumatic kiss Steve had with Sharon Carter? In the comics, Steve did love Sharon but who cares? In MCU they met, like, twice. Mostly after Peggy's funeral. Peak romance. If they had to pick a new love interest they could go with Natasha. They cared about each other, they bonded in TWS and they were both dealing with some difficult issues. But they became just good friends, which I loved. Instead, Natasha got together with Banner? And then there's Wanda and Vision, which seemed like the most random of pairings with no buildup whatsoever. The wonderful world of heteronormativity where a witch/robot couple comes before a gay one. And the thing is, I only recently learned that there's some legit leverage to portray Bucky as gay. Bucky is based on two characters from the comics. Bucky Barnes was Steve's teen sidekick, kinda like Robin, so this origin was too weird for MCU. Instead, the writers used the origin story from a character named Arnie. It was a boy Steve grew up with, a boy who protected him from bullies, and a boy who kept inviting Steve to these double dates. A boy who was gay. Which wasn't explicitly stated but was pretty obvious. And this was in 1984. So making Bucky gay would be neither woke nor against 'canon'. It would be way overdue.  So with TFTWS it was nice to see Bucky recover and bond with Sam but to me the whole ending also felt a bit excessively positive and this time the queerbaiting felt even more intentional, almost as if the writers wanted to distract the discontent fans with a new shiny ship so they forgot all the things they were mad about. Like, of course I want Bucky to be happy but also I hate the way the show's pushing the idea that he just needs to get over losing Steve and move

on with his life already because surely all his problems come from his inability to trust people and not trying hard enough, and not from being brainwashed and tortured for 70 years and then losing the only person who loved and cherished him.

[btsandvmin]

Normalizing Vmin or “Vmin”

This is going to sound weird, delusional and probably hypocritical no matter how I say it. But I hope you all understand this is all still just in theory. I simply want to talk about this because I want to offer a different view and hopefully help in keeping Vmin shippers from turning into something worse. I am talking about Vmin here but obviously I would apply this to all ships.

Lately the annoyance with how fans always friendzone Vmin has gotten a lot louder. It's been all over Twitter this week. And I totally understand why because Vmin deserves to be recognized as a ship just as any other. But I do want to talk about the complaint that fans normalize the real Vmin too much. Because I think it's important to see the difference between shipping and how people view the real people that are Jimin and Taehyung and their relationship.

In short I would say we have real Vmin vs “Vmin” as a fictional ship, and that normalizing these two are very different things. In fact I don’t know if we can even say that Vmin as a ship can be normalized, because to begin with in the nature of what a ship is it’s all just people’s own fantasies applied onto real people. On the other hand normalizing Vmin’s behavior as two real people is just about interpretation and personal views. Not about shipping, unless you actually believe they or another ship to be real.

So... Normalizing real Vmin is kind of a good thing. Especially if they actually are more than friends.

Think of it not from the perspective of a shipper wanting other people to recognize their ship. Instead if a ship is actually real normalization is an important tool to give them more freedom. Think about the two people involved. What do they show? A very close and intimate bond and friendship and nothing more confirmed. But even if there was more they wouldn't be able to show it honestly. That’s just how most LGBT+ individuals and couples have to struggle in today’s society, and especially if it’s someone famous.

Vmin can say they are soulmates. They can hold hands. We see them more cuddly and possibly sharing a bed. We heard Tae talk about 4 o'clock and Vmin share "their candid stories as honestly as possible". Isn't that what we want?

A lot of it has been gradual and now people see things as normal between them though they might not have if it all came at once and in full force. Over time a lot of things have been normalized, even to the point that they wrote a small article about Vmin changing male friendship norms. 

It might even be meant to gradually get worse and worse and stretch the boundaries of what Vmin can do under a platonic label. I've written about this in regards to Vmin before, and let me tell you they have indeed increased some of the things that might look a bit too intimate since then. You can read it here, it’s what I wrote in the start of 2019 - Vmin – Pushing the boundaries

Like holding hands, sharing beds or talking about some of their shared stories. Even the possible song connections keep happening more. If we are lucky they might even build up to an eventual vlive together. Something I personally believe they have been avoiding for whatever reason. Either way they seem more open and happy and that makes me happy. I hope they can keep doing it.

I sometimes struggle with if I should even share my analysis or theories because if they prove to be right and are too well spread it might actually affect Vmin in a bad way (obviously I am not big enough to have that impact, but still). It's not impossible that BTS do get affected by the fans' views of them and their relationships.

Let's talk as if Vmin is real and they are a gay couple hiding from the world because they don't want to be out. If they don't want to be out, why would we want to expose them? Even if they in an ideal world would be honest and out, in reality it wouldn't be that simple. Isn't it better to try to be open and supportive no matter what? 

Time, place and how we talk about ships matters. Even I talk about my frustrations, just look at my very first post on this blog (The “bromance” issue). But it's a huge difference if I talk about it in private or openly, who I talk to and how I would talk about it depending on situation. And most importantly if I talk about the ship or the real Vmin.

If there is a real couple how they are viewed will matter. For example I am sure Vmin would be happy that people see their love for each other, platonic or not. But how they decide to portray themselves is nothing we should be angry about. Even if it might partly be because they don't have a choice. Every thing Vmin normalize is another step towards them not having to hold back something. They can hold hands because it's seen as a platonic normal thing between them now. In 2016 this wasn't the case and Tae himself even said holding hands with a man would feel weird. Imagine what a sense of freedom and relief to no longer have to stop themselves from doing this if they have been holding back for one reason or another. 

Seeing Vmin hold hands was rare, but look at them now.

Fans might be normalizing Vmin, but it's because that's the image Vmin and Big Hit are showing us. There are many examples, I mean they literally named their song "Friends". It might be that they are just platonic soulmates or it might be a white lie to allow Vmin to do as much as possible while hiding. By the way I don't say Vmin have to be happy with everything, like the Christmas song for example, but I do believe in it being something they understand might be necessary. Either way we should be happy they can act the way they do and feel comfortable. There is nothing wrong with calling Vmin best friends.

We should be happy people see them as best friends as long as that is how they want to be seen. At least people love and respect their bond. 

I do however think it's fine to be annoyed if people question your reason to ship Vmin, because shipping is about preference and not about reality. You have a right to ship whatever you want, just as everyone else. If someone loves Vmin just as friends, great. If they try to explain why you shouldn't ship them, leave or explain why anyone is free to ship whatever they want because it's just fantasy. The problem is usually when the line between fantasy and reality is too blurry. But shipping is in itself not a bad thing. As long as we don't do it in a way that harms others or makes the member feel uncomfortable. Basically keep the shipping to places where it belongs and remember that ship material like edits, fics or fanart etc. is enjoyed as expansions of reality.

I feel annoyed too that Vmin is so friendzoned. But just that the ship isn't recognized as a good possible romantic or sexual ship, not about them as real people. Because the friendzoning for the real people might either be there for a reason, or they are just best friends. Thus we shouldn't be annoyed when Vmin are seen as friends, unless it's other shippers trying to say their ship is better. We should be annoyed when people don't understand why they are a good ship and people enjoy expanding their reality into fiction. 

But at least for me it's probably better to not try to insist Vmin or any other ship is real. We can also explain why we ship Vmin without having to say that someone else's ship is lesser. You wouldn't want someone else to force you to stop shipping Vmin, so that goes the other way as well. 

In the end if we push it too much that actual Jimin and Taehyung's relationship is real in a romantic sense it's not good for them no matter if it's real or not. As long as we accept them that's what matters most.

Something else we should be annoyed with is how fans defend their straightness and keep on expressing that a non straight member is impossible. If someone says they are straight and we shouldn't assume their sexuality I think it's good to point out that we shouldn't assume they are straight either. We need to show we accept BTS and Vmin no matter what.

Even if Vmin isn't real we should be fine with that too. I realize this might seem hypocritical coming from me who literally write Vmin analysis. But really, I hope you understand what I try to say here.

(Now watch my follower count drop...)

Thank you for reading, and thank you to everyone who follows me and tries to understand my point of view even if you might not agree.

I purple you and I purple Vmin. 💜

[feckin-zicons]

that's why i hate larries, i hate them with all my heart. besides being boring they are hypocrites 🙄

Hey nonnie, sorry its taken me so long to reply but if you’re following me you know I’ve been travelling lately and have been more scatterbrained than usual. Not that I’m ever not scatterbrained, but its been just a little crazier than usual!

Now I wouldn’t go as far to say I hate Larries. After all their delusions can be pretty funny sometimes!

Joking aside, I don’t hate Larries, I love Larries, I’m a Larry, so I really hesitate to tarry the whole group with the same brush. However I do strongly agree with you that there are those who are complete hypocrites. Nothing annoys more more than when Larries ™ treat the other boys, other celebrities, their friends and even family as one more side character to the Larry Show.

In particular when Larries ™ flood comment sections asking or in some cases, ordering people to confirm rumors/the couple being together. The absolute fucking disrespect. Not just because they’re flooding comment sections in videos streams, tweets, what have you, that sometimes have nothing to do with the couple in question, but because its presumptuous and rude as fuck to think they’re owed a coming out- just because they’re fans of the boys.

Stop it. Thats fucking ugly as hell.

While I have no doubt all the boys will one day be out (as referenced by their continued efforts in fighting the closet. I don’t get the sense the boys will just stop at being freed from their contractual obligations). It should and will be on their own terms. Provided they’re not forcibly outed some other way.

Coming out is a deeply personal experience and no one, no one ever, has the right to out someone else. I’ll never not be absolutely furious at the Larries ™ who posted about having ‘receipts’ that would out the boys. Which… tbh weren’t receipts at all but thats a whole other story. I’m also still angry at the reactions after Liams Attitude spread that wouldn’t have been as bad if not for the entitled fandom that peddled ridiculous claims beforehand about Liam confirming Larry to be real.

I mean… What the actual fuck. Setting aside the fandom experience of the time, and boy was it an experience. What right would Liam have confirming Louis and Harry’s relationship? I mean, get some perspective? It doesn’t help that a lot of fandom adults were the ones coming up with, and reblogging those theories and the younger fans ate it up. It would have made more sense for Louis and Harry to do it but idk maybe I’m still out of touch for thinking so. I mean, it felt like every other week someone was talking about Larry coming out. It was such a shit storm oh my god.

Biggest issue I still have with them is that the entitled behaviour hasn’t stopped. For some it seems like, Larry coming out is it for them. Like pack it up, goodbye, shows over, Louis and Harry are gay and in a relationship and everything is rainbows, we get to see cute pictures of them and everyone lives happily ever after.

Yeah, no. Coming out, for anyone, is just the beginning, can’t even begin to imagine what its like for them. They’re still going to need everyones support, and it irritates me that for some fans it seems so fucking conditional.

Time and time again, I’ve seen tweets, and posts, and videos, whatever, going on about Larry coming out and it reads like a fucking wattpad story. Not just that but its always on the assumption by the poster, on the off chance they consider the other 3/5ths of the band and Ziam being a possibility, that Larry will come out first?

What?

I’m sorry but, what?

Everything I’ve seen from the boys tells me they’re all in this together, they support each other and are working through the bullshit as a team. We have all seen the No Judgement music video yes? The merch, posts, double speak etc referencing each other, yes?

I mean, I suppose if you only look at Louis and Harry, like so many do, sure. Only Larry matters, everyone else is a side character in their life.

(Lemme just, scream for a second).

However, that kind of thinking leads them to the wrong conclusions. Like… assuming the SBB/RBB countdown was attributed to nothing, when it counted down to Liam finally being free of Sophia. In the years since, I’ve seen Larries ™ backtrack on claiming the bears had anything to do with the boys, that they weren’t behind it at all, or that they were just trolling the fandom.

You know, despite all the proof otherwise, and some really, really good posts breaking down clues about what the boys were trying to tell us. The moment something might not actually be about Louis and Harry its like all their thinking shuts off. Its frustrating. Really fucking frustrating.

Seriously, fans of the other boys as individulas, not just Ziams, have been talking about the stunts too and how they fit together. Its why we tend to be right, because we’re considering the entire group. They’re still a group. They’re not free until all of them are free.

Just for that Nialls coming out first. Lmao. I’ll call it now. Lets go Niall, whens the baby coming. We all wanna know. Its been years.

Imagine, imagine! Acting like coming out is some race to be won. The fucking audacity.

Go outside and touch fucking grass you absoulte ninny.

I get it, you want to be vindicated, you want to be rewarded for putting your faith in two celebrities being together.

Newsflash you dandelionfluff, its not a race, Louis and Harry coming out isn’t a fucking prize. Thats not what supporting a relationship looks like.

Its worse when someone admits they don’t know much about Ziam or the possibility of Niall being LGBT+, and claim they’re open to it, but then immediately tweet or reblog or sub tweet or tag comment a post or answer an ask from another Larry ™ talking about how Larries ™ are the most marginalized and persecuted group.

???

In what fucking world?

IN WHAT FUCKING WORLD?

If we wanna play that game, boohoo, the media claims Louis and Harry aren’t friends anymore because of crazy shippers. Meanwhile Zayn publicly isn’t friend with anyone and “left” the band… despite the Ziam fandom calling the stunt about either Louis or Zayn “leaving” and getting it down to the exact week (the second article coming out a week before about the Ziam kiss pretty much cemented it for Zayn leaving. Which did a lot to fan the flames of the already rabid fanbase when Ziam got two articles confirming a Ziam kiss over the years and Larry got nada. Like that actually means anything).

Not to mention Larries ™ using the hetties and management tactics against the other parts of the fandom to silence them.

Who cares what the media says anyway!  TPTB, 1DHQ, The Sun, The Mirror, Simon and his minions and their unpaid interns have used the media to split the fandom apart and it worked.

Who the fuck cares if the media calls the 1D stans delusional, you know the truth! The truth it out there and you’ve seen it! The truth is coming! Who gives a damn about what some two bit “journo” who failed out of their creative writing course writes? They get worse by the year. If it wasn’t so pathetic and hilarious I might actually feel embarrassed for them. They can’t even come up with new stories and have just taken to copying old articles, but you’re upset with them??? Give it a rest. Honestly.

The sense of disconnect, entitlement and victimhood of some Larries ™ is absolutely ridiculous.

Oh my god they’re Karens. I’m not trying to be insulting, but thats exactly who they remind me of.

I’m not going to say its a surprise to me that so many in the Ziam fandom are POC, LGBT+, and Neurodivergent and any combination of those, but I am going to say I’ve read a lot of Larry fics that just have Het sex made gay. Those in the Ziam fandom just tend to look at facts in a different way than Larries do due to their life experiences. A interfaith, interracial, relationship where one or both partners fall under the Bi umbrella (not saying Louis or Harry can’t be or aren’t Bi+ but rumors, and the way the fandom markets them, puts them firmly in the gay category) looks very, very different than gay or straight relationship. Both looking from outside and being in one. There’s just different dynamics at play that aren’t often realized or understood by the gays and hets.

Its not a bad thing. All relationships are different. The issue is that theres a lot of biphobia/racism/religious prejudice etc that arises from people being unwilling to understand the inherent differences.

Taking myself for example, I’m bi, like, bi as hell, and I don’t understand how gays and hets only like one gender. I just don’t. Can’t wrap my head around it. If someone asks me to choose one gender over the others to prefer I can’t. Its so stressful. My brain goes into panic mode and it feels like I’m being torn apart. My sense of identity is shaken- its a shit feeling. I just can’t lie to myself like that. If other people feel the same well, its no wonder bi+ have such high rates of depression and suicide. Its not about choosing who to like, there is no choice, I just feel attraction to everyone. Aces, I get. Its similar to being the opposite of what I feel, or not feeling an attraction to someone I’m not interested in. Easy. Gays and hets? I’m completely lost on.

Completely, and I know I’m not the only one who feels that way. But that doesn’t mean I’m not willing to try and understand where they’re coming from. Its alien to me, personally, but I’m not going to shut down the fact, that theres a fuck ton of people who only like one gender or try and make up reasons as to why they’re actually bi+

I digress, none of the boys fall neatly into the gay stereotypes, its just that parts of the Larry fandom have boxed Louis and Harry into certain roles to fit preconceived notions (likely do to them initially fitting in better with the white, sassy, somewhat effeminate twink thats been plastered all over Hollywood as their “LGBT+ representation” for years. Gag), they can understand better, and only look for proof to back up their theories but don’t look at things objectively.

They really need to get out more and make some LGBT+ friends that aren’t on the internet and talk to some gay elders. They need educating that’s not the often sanitized and insulting Hollywood version, that’s all I’m saying.

They made Louis and Harry more palatable for themselves and its… really gross.

I don’t know, I don’t get it.

Some Larries ™ turned the boys into their fandom and fanfiction stereotypes when they’re so much more than that. The Sony leaks should have been enough to dissuade the fandom, and prove that the brand sold to the broader audience is just that- a brand, and yet… Niall only talks about food and golf and Ireland and is only allowed to be straight or ace. If he exists at all its just to be Capt Niall. Liams slow and dumb and depending on the day he’s either Capt Liam or a horrific abusive homophobe. Zayns just The Worst, a unstable drug addict, and the boys hate each other, and they should have kicked him out of the band sooner because he never wanted to be part of them anyway, etc.

It drives me absolutely around the bend some days. They’re real people who don’t owe anyone anything, especially not coming out.

Yes, I think they will. But they’re not obligated to. They can change their minds, I’ll support them regardless of an “official” coming out or not.

Look, a part of me gets it. They wanna be right, they wanna prove the haters wrong, they want to be able to say I called it all along! The vindication will be sweet.

But like, it takes a quick look at someone other than Louis and Harry to realize theres something hinky going on with Liam, Zayn and Niall. Please listen to their fans who have spent just as much time as you have looking into Louis and Harry compiling together evidence.

It might take a weekend to watch the ILYSM and pterodactyl bros videos and a few more hours looking into some Niall blogs, which isn’t much compared to the hours I know they’ve spent looking into Larry. At least then they’ll have enough information to form an opinion on things.

I wonder, for some, what would happen if Larry didn’t come out, or didn’t come out first, or one of the other boys was outed against their will. Because… I don’t know. It seems like some would rather just be proven right at this point.

I get it. We’re tired. Its been eleven long years. But this isn’t a television show were everything can come to a head with a s3 or s4 cliff hanger and fixed in the series finale. Its real life, and they started off as boys trusting industry veterans who never had their best interests at heart.

Iduno. I just want some Larries ™ to take a step out of the echo chamber, realize life isn’t The Larry Show & co. And especially. ESPECIALLY, that every instance were someone, friends, family, co-works, industry peeps etc support the boys they are SUPPORTING THE BOYS, NOT THE FANDOM. They are not “confirming Larry for the fans” they’re doing it to support the couple, not to cater to the fandom. Please stop confusing the two. There’s a huge fucking difference. Learn it.