#but saying what israel and western countries have put palestinians through isn't political is one of the most insane use of that rhetoric

[maddy-ferguson]

i'm so sick of the human rights aren't political crowd if you think a country's government, its army, killing people and politicians all over the world encouraging it isn't political you're an actual idiot. stupid. unintelligent

[purplenidoqueen]

You can be antizionst, I honestly don't care for your personal opinion.

But when you speak out, a jewish person, against most of your jewish siblings, you are actively hurting us all.

You being publicly jewish and anti zionist, which is a term mostly used to sugar coat antisemitism (my grandma's polish passport taken after the holocaust because "anti Zionism" for example), is used by real antisemitic people in the same way republican use conservative black people, and sexits use conservative women.

Idk, just felt like telling you my opinion.

I really don't intend to hurt you or anything like that. If it comes off as super harsh, please forgive me.

Have a great day!

I'm not speaking out against anything Jewish. Zionism isn't Jewish, and you don't have to be Jewish to be a zionist any more than you have to be a zionist to be Jewish. If there are a number of zionist Jews, that's a problem of zionism, just as the fact that there are white people who are racist or sexist or otherwise bigoted doesn't make white folk the problem. Still you say I'm hurting us all, as the usamerican conservatives say that learning the truth of slavery and antiblackness during the pre- and post-Civil War eras hurts white students? I'm not the one making us look bad; look instead to Netanyahu or Ben-Gvir or Gallant, and judge yourself not for the actions of your kin but by your own actions alone.

Let's put aside the way those same conservatives use zionism to push the far-right ideologies of Likud, Otzma Yehudit, and similar groups into the mainstream of Jewish, Christian, and contemporary western culture. Let's just focus on the issue of antisemitism, on a small scale or on a larger scale. Let's focus on October 7th, or the Tree of Life synagogue shooting, or the Shoah, or all number of incidents prior or since. Why is October 7th seen as the start of an onslaught that has been ongoing since last century? Why do we as a broader culture know of the Tree of Life but not of the Cave of the Patriarchs? Why do we teach students about the Shoah but not the Nakba? Why do you think Jewish people are worth more than the millions of Palestinians that have been killed, maimed, sickened, starved, abducted, terrorized, or displaced by Israel for eight decades? Why should I consider the threat of another October 7th to be a reason to excuse to commit a cultural genocide or a murderous, exterminationist genocide of over two million people, by right of skin color and a landlord's dreams of real estate? Because one side is my people? You're all my people. Every life on this planet is one of my people, and if my own mother, sweet as she is, committed a sin so grievous I'd do anything I could to bring her to justice.

I'm sorry your grandma had issues of antisemitism. You and I have experienced it too, I assume, though likely not as a systemic issue. I personally lived in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania when the congregation of Etz Chayyim-Or L'Simcha was attacked by a neonazi. I know all too well how antisemitism can spread, unprompted and unabashedly. If you want to put antisemitism to rest, turning "our people" into a country of genocide apologists is not the way to do it. To call antizionism a form of antisemitism is true antisemitism, because it's a way of preying upon the fears of a people that have already been through so much in recent memory. Israel will be judged for Israel's behavior. The dream of avoiding antisemitism is not worth another holocaust.

The Israeli occupation and annexation of Palestine, so soon after watching the post-9/11 descent of my entire country into islamophobia and war, is the single issue that radicalized me into politics as a teenager back in 2005/2006. If I can help others learn what I learned and see what I've seen, then I think it's worth some hard feelings.

Speaking of hard feelings, don't forget: After World War I and the Great Depression, the people of Germany thought the Third Reich had a reason to rule as they did. I speak out against zionism because one grave sin does not permit another. Don't give Likud an excuse to be the modern era's new Nazis.

[gavisuntiedboot]

I'm the anon that u called Islamophobic. I think I didn't get my point across. Mena is notorious for having no democracy or electing fundamentalist gov. This isn't being Islamophobic this is a fact. I don't think Palestinians will want to live in peace after what israel put them through especially kids from Gaza.

Creation of Israel was to make it a Jewish state not a secular state. Makes no sense for them to change law of return. Especially with Netanyahu n abbas to find a middle ground

Its naive of u to think that it won't start a Civil War like in Lebanon. They don't like each other. Either way there will be genocide of Either group. Forcing a one state solution is not feasible,unless u want a blood bath. Ut will be 1947 all over.

I'm not Islamophobic like u make me out to be. I live in a country that feeds the same kind of propaganda. What israel is doing in wrong. They shouldn't have been making a state there. Things happened has happened.

Both of the leadership in very corrupt. This is the reason I support 2 state solution so that they don't kill each other. Or otherwise jews just go back where they come from Europe or Mena wherever.

Also river to sea is a call for genocide. It was used by Israeli gov and also Palestinians. U want to mean it something but it isn't.

I hope there will be peace someday without a genocide

Anon, read these words carefully: you ARE being Islamophobic and racist when you say these things.

MENA is notorious for actually having their governments collapsed by the West and then benefiting from the chaos. That's what happened in Egypt and Kuwait and Lebanon. They never let elections stand as the people want them. You are saying that "MENA people don't know how to pick governments or they pick a Muslim one." Like dude. There is currently no fundamentally Islamic government anywhere in the world. It doesn't exist. Like who are you referring to when you make this statement? If I say "Ukrainian people don't know how to elect a good government, so Russia should have Ukraine" it would be an ASS BACKWARDS STATEMENT. YOU, non-MENA individual, think we don't know how to pick or elect a government. So what if it's an Islamic government? IF THAT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES WHAT IS THE ISSUE? You're Islamophobic and racist because you believe that people in the MENA region are not capable of making decisions for themselves or capable of being civilized.

"Well I don't think that Palestinians will want x..." Respectfully, what you think means ABSOLUTELY FUCK ALL IN THIS SITUATION. You are not Palestinian, you don't talk to Palestinian or even Middle Eastern people apparently, and your response is "Well they already took the land so let them keep it." No. Fuck you. It's our land and we want it back. Because by your logic "well Franc took Algeria so they should just be fine with it". Like you fundamentally do not believe brown people have the right to their own land and to self determination. If Russia took a portion of Ukraine, you would never say "oh just let Russia keep it what happened already happened" because they're white.

The West fucks up the MENA region and then tells brown people to deal with it. Lebanon was created to make an Arab state for Christians so they would leave Syria. Then the same Western countries put a Muslim government in place TO MAKE SURE THE MIDDLE EAST WASN'T AT REST. THE WHITE WORLD BENEFITS FROM THE DESTABILIZATION OF THE MIDDLE EAST. SO THEY CASUE IT THEMSELVES.

Israel shouldn't exist. And God willing within our lifetimes it will cease to exist. And I mean that in the same way the Soviet Union ceases to exist. Not as a call for killing, but the dismantlement of an oppressive political system of ruling. I want the state of Israel to disappear, not Jewish people.

And finally, from the river to the sea was a slogan made by Palestinians. Israelis stole it, like they stole everything else. Palestinians say it with one meaning, and your refusal to accept the meaning from the creators of the phrase speaks to the internalized bigotry within you. When people say "Black Lives Matter" do you feel threatened? Do you think it is a call to end white lives? Do you burn with the need to say "well ALL lives matter"?

Your argument is based in the fact that you see brown people as incapable of self governance, that because they were massacred in '48 they don't deserve their own land, that everyone is bad so Palestinians should shut up and be happy with a two state solution and that's the best we can do. You are a racist and you are Islamophobic, and I will not be responding to any of your further attempts at a rebuttal until you can sit with yourself and realize that. You think you're free from propaganda? The propaganda has worked extra hard on you, because you still believe that we are not civilized people.

I hope you have the day you deserve.