#cc!niki critical

[sunlitmcgee]

gonna briefly break my No Hate Til Sunday thing to say the following:

Niki is an adult who is fully capable of saying no and turning down an invite to a concert of a known groomer and general asshat.

Niki needs to address this properly instead of deleting a brief tweet about it.

She, out of all the former dsmp creators, has the fewest reasons to want to associate with Dream. He did nothing to help her while she was being harassed by fans, especially when it was mainly d.Team fans that hurled abuse towards her and other female ccs.

Jumping to defend her simply Because of said harassment is not helpful or productive.

Benevolent sexism in the form of "women can't do anything wrong ever" is just as fucked up as holding women in contempt for every little thing.

Be critical of your favs when they do something bad. Do not let favoritism prevent you from seeing faults in the people you enjoy watching.

[atthebell-moved]

hi, i completely agree that the fandom has a problem with misogyny and often fails at self-introspection. my question is, do you have any resources/tips/thoughts on how to be better about it? even, how to recognize it in yourself the first place? "ok i'll stop being a misogynist now" is a lot easier said than done, especially for people who might not be that educated on the subject, and majority of the people in this fandom are quite young as well.

this is long as fuck and possibly somewhat incoherent bc it took so long to write but i did my best

my biggest tip for people who don't know much about misogyny is to look at your own behavior and learn how to clock what you're doing as sexist.

are you criticizing a female creator? think about why you're doing it, what the actual beef you have with them is. if it seems to be just a sense of discomfort or thinking they're annoying or overly loud or pushy, think about male ccs who act the same way and why you dont consider them annoying. are you annoyed with them for being on a male cc's stream? why? does it feel like theyre taking up too much attention? do you get annoyed with them for talking too much or flirting with guys? for gaming especially-- do you get annoyed with them for not knowing something or being "bad" at a game? think about why that is and why its just funny when a male cc is bad at games or doesnt know something.

a HUGE problem i see in this fandom is the Madonna-whore complex, repackaged as the little sister-racist dichotomy (kudos to @yourlittlemenace for that phrasing).

if a female cc is deemed to be "playing nice" (doesnt talk too much, is "nice", streams with male ccs but doesnt flirt with them, isn't "overtly sexual"), she's the little sister of the group. all the male ccs "protect" her, she literally folds their laundry, she doesnt call out how people treat her, and the fandom pretends that this is a normal and cool way to treat women who are public figures. this also goes for mom/big sister/etc. if you think you haven't done this, think about all the aus where you've forced puffy into some kind of maternal or sisterly role when it made no sense. then think about how pissed people got when she decided not to be the server therapist and was "mean" to Tommy (in lore, with permission. that she didnt even need to get. see that clip i rbed earlier from her podcast.)

if the fandom decides she doesnt play nice, if she flirts with male ccs too much or stands up for herself or points out how unfair it is that she's being treated this way, she gets demeaned, harassed, and shunned by the fandom. consider, again, puffy. consider how niki flirted with wilbur and talked about misogyny and got called a racist for *checks notes* "speaking to schlatt and fundy" and "not being a native english speaker". she got called a slut and a queerbaiter for kissing another woman despite being bisexual.

consider how hard people went down on hannah for having said the r slur several years back versus how hard they went on dream for the same thing. and how people dug it up as a direct response to her being on stream with dream. consider how every time hannah talks about how unfair it is that the mcc subreddit treats her like trash, she has to delete all her tweets bc they harass her to hell and back and act like she's an asshole for pointing out their hypocrisy.

the fandom doesnt do this across the board; i shouldnt have to say this, but its not an everyone versus no one issue. some people do this outright and loud, some dont seem to realize theyre doing it, and a few people dont do it at all (incredibly rare, i can count on one hand the number of people who genuinely seem to try to avoid these issues, which is why im complaining).

in terms of lore, have you ever once done analysis on a female character? why do you think you haven't? the bechdel-wallace test is an (imperfect) way of gauging how a piece of media ignores women and prioritizes men. think about the fact that there are FOUR female ccs on the DSMP and they are continually ignored in favor of male characters. consider that puffy and aimsey both talked about trying to do genuine lore and getting shafted, either because no one was online and wouldn't put in the effort to stream with them or because they received insane amounts of criticism for breaking anything on the server, despite the clear lack of "no griefing" rules and the precedent that you can blow other people's shit up (tommy leveling one of puffy's builds, amongst many other examples).

a quick thing about ships: have you ever wondered why m/m ships are so popular? the general consensus amongst people who care about feminism and are into fandom studies is that for a long period of time, m/m was hugely popular because women are so rarely written as full and complete characters in any media. so people took to engaging with m/m ships and writing about them because they were the most fulfilling relationships, and because misogyny led them to be predisposed to be uninterested in female characters.

say an m/m ship is incredibly popular, something like, i dunno, john watson and sherlock holmes from bbc sherlock. lets also say the canonical media presents one or both of the characters with a female love interest. how do you think a fandom that prioritizes m/m ships and is primed to be disinterested in women as characters (either because of our society's role in teaching people that women do not matter or because of fandom's history in assuming female characters are not fleshed out) is going to react? if you said theyre going to send undue amounts of criticism her way and act like its an act of homophobia to give a canonically straight character a female love interest, congrats, you've figured out a huge component in fandom misogyny. take this, amplify it over several decades, and add the psychic damage that supernatural gave society. queerbaiting is bad but mistreating female characters in service of nonexistent queer relationships is also bad.

this is relevant in general but i also believe its relevant for the dsmp because of the complete lack of m/f ships. aside from phil and kristin, who are literally married irl and kristin isn't even on the server, there are no m/f ships that involve female creators. this is not, despite what you may think, due to the inherently yaoi nature of minecraft roleplay. this is because the creators, including the male ones, are afraid of the blowback of m/f flirting and how fucking awful people are to female ccs anytime it happens. once again look at niki. as another example, consider how notfounders harassed the living daylights out of mxmtoon for flirting with gnf on twitter. if i was a cc i would avoid it like the plague too considering how happy people are to dig shit up about them or accuse them of being a slut or an attention whore/"pick me girl" for speaking to a man.

one last thing, this is more about fanart than anything else but stop drawing women to look like teenage boys. the amount of fanart i see where i literally cannot tell if someone has drawn niki or tommy is fucking insane. niki has curves. draw her with them. if you cannot draw women or people outside a very specific body type you cannot draw. fatphobia and misogyny have a clear overlap.

i cant think of anything else and ive already spent forever on this. look into feminist media analysis. think twice about how you react to female ccs & female characters. consider not just what characters have interesting stories but who is allowed to have interesting stories. you might be neglecting someone who has a lot going on because you're dismissing a female character as inherently less likely to be interesting. you might not even know someone has an interesting story because the fandom neglects it so completely.

as a final little note: like i said earlier, if you're not familiar with gender & sexuality studies, you may not know this, but homophobia and transphobia are rooted in misogyny. the idea that gender is immutable and rigid is because of the patriarchy. this is why gendered slurs are used against queer people and why queer men in particular get accused of and demeaned for being feminine. your understanding of queerphobia is incomplete without considering how sexism plays a role.

also go read everything rayne fisher-quann has ever written but especially this piece on getting woman'd and listen to you're wrong about

[mcytblrconfessions]

I honestly hated how whenever you wanted to give actual criticism to c!niki, a bunch of people would excuse you of hating women. Like, I don’t just criticize c!niki and only c!niki, I criticized how c!rocketduo’s attempts to murder c!tommy just felt like the cc’s were just joining in on the “be cruel to c!tommy” bandwagon just for the chance to gain viewers and no other reason. Also, c!niki was there for the arrestment of c!dream. Her being perfectly ok with releasing c!dream from prison makes no sense. It would have been better if she stood up and didn’t participate in the breakout.

Love cc!niki and c!niki was good, but god I wish she could’ve been great.

[cupcraft]

cup I really do support you but going on about how people didn’t speak up early enough when multiple people have described abusive behaviour towards them is literally just victim blaming. like it does not need to be explicitly described in abusive terms to be victim blaming. manipulating and intimidating people and making them feel small and helpless is abusive behaviour. genuinely as a grooming victim who went through similar it’s intensely triggering. genuinely not trying to be mean but like. please don’t say shit you’ll regret if someone else comes out and says they were a victim.

Thank you for this ask. I want to be clear I do not want people pressuring people to speak up and it is important to know there are multiple victims (confirmed) and there may be more unspoken because of wilburs repeated abusive behavior.

What I have been saying is that there is two aspects to this silence: many ccs who were harmed or witnessed harm (Shelby. Freddie, billzo, Lexie, niki). Have spoken about behavior of wilburs close circle where his behavior was repeatedly diminished, not spoken about, and their experiences were ignored or downplayed. This is the silence I'm talking about. Their silence is harmful and contributes to enabling abuse. It also speaks from a misogyny lens of many of the ccs who didn't speak up then and haven't now.

I do not think that means pressuring every cc and demanding answers from them that does contribute to victim blaming and harming potential victims. But I at the same time think we should be critical of those that have continually enabled this harm as said by multiple people and victims.

Thank you and I am sorry that didn't come across. I can delete any post that is not clear.

[graysbullshit]

Translating this thread on twitter because I feel like a lot of people need to read it.

It's pretty long though...

"Warning: contructive opnion/criticism about the qsmp!!!!

note: nothing here is hate to the ccs/adms, please dont bother me

The english in the qsmp is dull.

I have been noticing this for a while and, talking to my non-english speaker friends (unlike myself), some have already distanced themselves from the server content because of this.

the idea of the qsmp is a global server, but this shouldn't be based soly in their nationality, but also the languages spoken in the server. And recently all we've seen is english being spoken 24/7, and of course this comes from the ease of comunicstion and speed, but we have a PERFECTLY good translator for that.

what frustated me more recently in purgatory was that, despite brigging AMAZING dynamics between the players, it reduced completely the spoken languages to english again. Because of the mini-events and distance that the creators are from each other, making the tool of amazing and automatic translation useless since it doesnt translate from a distance. And don't get me wrong, even quackity himself said he noticed he was doing more lives in english because of the "nature of the event".

When the owner of the server says this you see the problem.

anyway, second point, empanada

bagi is the pov I watch the most after my main (cellbit and morning crew) and, my god, how i LOVE this pov for being a brazillian that, for hanging out by herself, usually can speak portuguese. It's a relief. A breath of fresh air in the middle of english in weight [idk if this is a expression in english, but it means 'a lot'] from every direction

only for her to get an egg that doesn't speaks her language.

don't get me wrong, em is lovely and i'm VERY happy that niki will be able to speak german with her daughter. But at the same time, the language she does lives in is english. Just like all the other mothers.

Would it really be that hard to find an adm from a country that speaks portuguese? it doesn't even have to be brazillian. Portugal, Angola, Guiné-Bissau, Cabo Verde, Moçambique, even Macau.

I GUARANTEE you that there is a lot of people that speak portuguese that would join the QSMP team with a huge smile.

It's just dull to have a participant that came to represent the brazillian language and culture and speak portuguese 100% of the time in live because her daughter doesn't understand her language [I feel like this also goes for Ironmouse].

And I'm not saying necessarily for the creators, but for the people watching.

I started watching qsmp because of the brazillian streamers that I like, obviously, but also because I LOVE the server's idea, the cultural exchange and the linguistic trade.

The language is the main aspect of any culture and the linguistic erasure >CURRENTLY< in the qsmp makes me sad.

I was watching the old vods and it's weird to notice that — at least the brazillians— used to speak more portuguese when the translator was worse than now that it works perfectly.

It's just a bit disappointing to see a project that was made to break linguistic barriers end up keeping them through the sovereignty of the english language.

(after that, I have NO issues with the cultural aspect. The cultural exchange is made with mastery.)"

Link to the post is here.

[bonesandthebees]

Vlog gun anon here - Oof. That's not what I meant at all. I have a really bad habit of posting stuff when I'm angry so sorry about that, but I thought I'd send this in so you know that I'm upset that I came off that way.

Anyway, I only thought that bc I saw something else and I got upset that people were harassing CCs for not responding to situations within the next nanosecond and I was trying to relate to what they were be going through, mostly bc of what Billzo and Niki said.

Hearing people were giving Tommy flack made me think of what Billzo and Niki said, then of what that other person mentioned, and then I thought about the vlog gun stream bc that was my only point of reference for any of his problematic behavior. I didn't know it was a bit but I also haven't watched it in 3 years, so I would've been able to tell if I'd looked at it recently, but I didn't bc it doesn't matter in the end.

TLDR: I wasn't trying to say any of that, that wasn't where my mind was at all and I'm sorry if what I said upset you. The people who do genuinely think that and are hyperfixating on this situation need to be corrected and I hope I didn't contribute to the problem or mess up your day. Sorry about the trouble and accidentally taking the attention off of Shelby and the other victims.

it's okay, you didn't upset me at all. I've just been seeing people pull up old clips like the vlog gun stream and use it as 'evidence' that wilbur being a terrible person was in front of our faces the entire time. it was a topic I'd been wanting to talk about and criticize on here, and with your message it seemed like you were doing the same so I took the opportunity to talk about it. you're fine dw

[yasminthespiritfaninnit]

I am going to be honest. Seeing some of critblr’s rumors and theories(especially about the younger MCYTs/streamers) is very hysterical. They are so wrong and somehow so ducking invasive.

Like, what do you mean that Beeduo and Billbo were legit things? What do you mean that Ranboo’s a clout chaser? What do you mean that Niki dated both Wilbur and Jack? What do you *mean* that Dream would be a republican if not for popularity? What do you mean that Wilbur’s and Tommy’s friendship is weird? Like what? Some of y’all’s takes are giving me bad exile takes circa 2021 vibes.

And you know what’s the most hysterical things? Y’all act like that the CC’s are too parasocial. Like- WHat!? Look in the mirror! They are not the ones making up theories over who’s dating who and why? Y’all act like that people like Dream and Ranboo are Heather Duke from the Heathers. Just, dudes. If something is going on, I am sure that they’ll tell us if they want to tell us. Stop making everything a morality fight over who’s actually a good person. I just don’t get some of y’all’s stuff. Just….why?

You know that most of your stuff is boundary breaking, right? Like theorizing that Ranboo’s friends hate him/he hates them, or theorizing that Niki and Wilbur were dating. Y’all claim to be here to criticize the CC’s. But gossiping about their relationships, breaking their boundaries, and straight up insulting their work with no merit is not criticizing them. It’s being a massive jerk.

Y’all need help. Seriously. Have a good day.

[woofdrm]

What pisses me off the most is that there was a whole bunch of ccs last show but only Niki got the worst of it, I feel so bad for her because her """fans""" feel so entitled, and it's all about grown women making their own decisions until the decisions don't fit the mold they expected her to fit in.

Like, why do people think they are allowed to have an opinion? I would get it if it was giving opinions about her streams (aka the content she provides), but this is literally them giving their unwanted opinion and criticism about what a woman does in her FREE TIME!????!!?

Also notice how everyone who gets pissed at her are currently qsmp/ranboo/etc stans, they were all "toxic Dream stans" a few years ago and now they get to act like a major part of the misogyny was not their fault back then (and it still is, considering how they still treat her when she is friends with people they don't like)

My bad for the rant, I'm just so tired and annoyed by how fem ccs are treated by their own fans

Yup!!! Yup yup and just imagine how they would have reacted if Tommy had been there. It would not have been the same.

[suca-loca]

I like the idea of everything starting anew in Season 2 solely because the new dsmp members can finally stop being ignored. A lot of people stopped logging onto the server because they didn’t wanna confuse the audience with what was and wasn’t canon

But that unfortunately left the new members to just have nothing to work off of. So much of the lore was started by improv and the new members couldn’t have that same experience so they slowly stopped streaming on the server. Now though they can finally be involved!!!!

I think The Incident, as Tommy calls it, had to happen mainly because of that + a lot of streamers wanted a do over on their lore. They’ve admitted to feeling intimidated, stuck and dealing with scheduling issues that have had to make them drop the stories they wanted to tell

Now that the streamers have more knowledge on how to handle lore and what does and doesn’t work we can finally see more stories. Plus the new scheduling system is coming out so that everyone can stream regularly on the SMP

I’m not saying not to have constructive criticism. It’s important to judge the media you consume and everyone is allowed to have opinions. God knows I have my own feelings on the c!niki and c!wilbur apology stream so I ain’t sitting here happy with everything

It’s understandable if you’re upset by the ending, especially with the interaction between c!Dream and c!tommy. CC!Tommy has stated multiple times that he hates c!dream so I think he’s going somewhere with this that won’t end with the victim forgiving the abuser. I’m okay with waiting it out to see how it goes since I believe it won’t end that way but obviously if you need to step away it’s fine. Put yourself first and don’t let anyone tell you you are overreacting

Everything else though? I feel people have forgotten the roots of this server. It was never meant to be a roleplay, much less explode into such popularity. It’s no wonder its a mess, there was no plan to any of this. The streamers had to learn as they went and then the demand for lore just got higher and higher and higher. People started complaining about the long breaks. People wanted quality AND quantity at the same time. So of course the streamers become stressed.

Everyone says they miss the simple goofy improv from the earliest days but then turn around and get mad when the storyline doesn’t follow a Hollywood budget movie. You wonder why streamers are scared of lore? It’s you guys.

This new server allows the streamers to not be stressed anymore. A lot of them are getting the clean slate they wanted and the chance to just breath for once. I for one cant wait to see Season 2 finally allow the streamers to do what they want now that they understand the ropes.

With that being said, see you guys in Season 2.

[sing-me-under]

I don’t like directly talking about the content creators and especially not about cc/Dream for a variety of reasons including but not limited to lack of verified information, trying to avoid irl discourse, and I don’t want to see this topic.

But good god.

Some of you antis will really make everything about him. Anytime anything that happens where the green block man is even remotely involved, Every Single problem is traced back to him, like damn, imagine hating someone so much you forget that other people have free will.

I’m just trying to read about the new lore finales and instead I’m being bombarded with DREAM IS A TERRIBLE PERSON WHO FORCED EVERYONE TO LOSE THEIR MEMORIES like did y’all just forget that Tommy, Tubbo, and Jack were the ones who actually set off the nukes and that c!Dream legit didn’t do anything except show up? If they really didn’t want to do that, they could have just… not done it?

Just because some of the creators don’t like the amnesia ending doesn’t mean everyone is being forced to comply with it. They could do what Phil, Niki, and Kristen did and like… Make their characters not be affected by The Incident? They don’t have to Yes And if they don’t want to.

Or like, “Dream ignores everyone’s messages and ruins other creator’s plans!” Because trust me, it’s not just Dream who can’t keep a schedule. He’s just the most notable. Not all lore needed Dream’s involvement to continue, and any lore involving him didn’t need his direct involvement. It’s a variety of different people’s schedules. Not just Dream.

I can understand hating Dream as a person, but I swear to god, way too many antis are obsessed to the point they lack common sense and/or critical thinking skills.

[karlnapity]

Ok but can we talk about how weird the fandom is about character interpretations?

Like the time Niki did a stream after Wilbur was revived where she was upset and Mcytblr freaked out about cc!Niki having an incorrect interpretation of his character, even going so far as saying that it was irresponsible of her to promote the idea of an 'evil' Wilbur- despite the fact that her character was entirely justified in hating him because he traumatized her, and that a character's opinions don't reflect the cc's?

Or the way Mcytblr consistently freaks out whenever characters have a disagreement and scramble to defend their faves because NO ONE can have a bad view of them, regardless or what they've done.

Or the way Mcytblr freaks out any time a character has any sort of development or is changed, sometimes going so far as to blame the CC themselves for changing their character.

Anyways. Some of you need to realize that multiple character interpretations, especially those biased (those of characters, etc.) are going to exist. Let go of your need to defend them and to protect your own true version of them

[khizuo]

my humble opinion is that a number of the dream smp cc's need to put out a youtube video (yes, a youtube video, not a twitch stream) talking about how they have evolved their content past minecraft and how they are are planning to continue changing their content in the future so that they can set clear expectations for their audiences. open up and let us see the human process behind the channel for once. I promise it won't hurt you guys

[atthebell-moved]

I think what's most frustrating about misogyny in this fandom (and any fandom, but this one has particular issues I'll get into) is that people who've never read a single word of feminist theory can recognize when they're pulling sexist bullshit. Like, my dad has never in his life consumed anything beyond milquetoast feminist takes on NBC family dramas, but he's capable of taking a step back and going "hey, that sucked and i know why."

But here, no matter how much i want to give people the benefit of the doubt for being young and not having the same opportunities as me to engage with feminism, people just go beyond the level of patience and grace I'm willing to extend to them. Yes, it is obvious that you don't care about women. No, I don't care that you rb pretty pictures of them, because at the end of the day you'll turn on them in an instant for any perceived wrong that for your favorite male streamer you would do endless apologia.

Every single woman on the DSMP is treated as an extension of male characters. Every streamer is treated like she doesn't matter unless she's streaming with some guy you actually care about. I've gone through their fanart tags, extensively, and I PROMISE you that the ratio of fanart of them on their own compared to art of them with your favorite white boy is fucking sad. Not to mention how many of these women get doxxed to hell and drug through the mud any time they flirt with a man or do lore that you don't approve of because it slights Tommy or Wilbur in any way.

Do you know the shit that gets slung at female streamers? There's an attitude in certain corners of this fandom that male streamers are over sexualized. Let me tell you about what female ccs go through. There is deepfake porn of every single one of them. There are constant messages about their bodies, about how they don't deserve their fame if they don't wear revealing clothing, and about how they need to cover up more. There are stalkers and rape threats and constant judgment of their actions as inherently sexual and deserving of not just criticism but genuine hatred. Please go watch an unban requests stream and you will see the BAREST minimum of what I'm talking about. The things I have heard people call Niki and Puffy are fucking disgusting, and I can't even imagine what their mods have to see.

If you think Twitchcon SD shoving the only panel for female streamers into a tiny room is bad, I want you to look twice at this community and how it treats women and then tell me you think that's surprising. There were people in line for that panel and for Niki and Hannah's meet n greets who were only there bc they're on the DSMP and stream with the guys you people actually care about. I know because I literally talked to them. They don't know a thing about these CC's content.

Don't pretend like this community is better than how all of twitch treats women. Don't pretend like you care about feminism and then throw completely disproportionate levels of criticism and hate at any woman who fucks up. Don't pretend you care about women within their own narratives and then sideline them at every opportunity in favor of the guys you actually care about. Suck it up and say the quiet part out loud (you don't care about women) and start actually trying to care.

[sunlitmcgee]

Y’know there’s Many Reasons why I hate c!Techno. Many reasons that needn’t be aired out here. But I think the main thing that makes him so awful, so annoying, so goddamn insidious and downright repulsive, is that no matter how hard I try to ignore him, he will always end up forcing himself into the stories of the characters that I Actually Enjoy And Somewhat Care About.

Like see I don’t like c!Niki. Never have. She’s just very meh to me and not very interesting. She’s involved in lore connected to my favs, but her presence and impact there is so minor and brief that I can easily ignore her and forget she exists.

But c!Techno? C!Technoblade Bitch Cunt Fucker Blood God Bastard Piggy Piece of Rancid Ass Fuck?

HE’S EVERYWHERE! HE IS IN EVERY PLOT OF EVERY CHARACTER I EVEN MILDLY ENJOY. AND HE’S NEVER GOOD! HE’S NEVER FUN OR INTERESTING OR INVOLVED IN THE THEMES BEYOND TAKING THE THEMES AND STAMPING ALL OVER THEM.

I can’t escape him! I can’t ignore him! No matter the character, He’s Always There. C!Tommy was framed as a villain because of Bedrock Bros. C!Ranboo was even more pathetic(and not in a fun way) due to his involvement with the Syndicate, and now c!Tubbo’s gone from one of the most complex & nuanced characters to nothing more than a shallow bratty girlboss because this filthy pig cannot help but infect every story he comes into contact with with the most horrid brand of Edgelord Mary Sue-ness that I have ever seen. 

He’s everywhere. He’s horrible. He’s a stain on the lore and I hate that I have to deal with him whenever lore for my favs come up. God I want him dead PLEASE just kill him 

[cupcraft]

You can’t say “I do know things like this take time” and then turn around and criticize Phil for not having made a statement (or addressed it on stream) already, saying that it could make him complicit in abuse. “Do it or you’re a bad person” is pressuring, whether you’re saying it to his face or not. 

Remember when Tubbo saw Wilbur’s “apology” minutes before starting his stream and had to talk about it on the fly without any kind of preparation? It’s good on him, but no one should be obligated to do that. Ranboo literally went on stream to say that some ccs were still processing, and to not expect immediate statements. And they’re right (and they had to, because some fans are throwing out accusations like yours)

I also hope everyone speaks out about it, I really do. When they’re ready to, and not before. Signing off.

Im not pressuring him to make a statement right now. Phil has had past behavior not speaking up about important things and cc behavior. He even said palestine was "too political" for him as just a "mc guy :(". I'm allowed to be wary. Im allowed to be wary and concerned when once again it's been brought to our attention BY VICTIMS that many ppl were silent about abuse over and over and over again.

So yes I hope he speaks up in general. Please stop taking bad faith reads of my posts. O7. Stop being a defender of your fav and instead bolster victim voices. Please call out patterns of behavior that have been brought to our attention again by victims. My critique isn't just about Phil you know it's about patterns of behavior that have caused lack of safety for so many people like lexie like niki like billzo and that group like shubble.

[shootingthe-stars]

now that i’m thinking about the lore in retrospect it was kind of…off? like the quotes and idea was very good but i feel like it wasn’t done to its full potential. (when using their names throughout i am referring to their characters)

i saw someone else talk about this as well but the way wilbur just took whatever eret yelled at him was disappointing. like yes, wilbur is full of self loathing and blames himself for everything, but i think it would be so nice for him to say “No, this wasn’t all my fault” for once. like yes, they did argue a bit, but it just wasn’t enough. eret saying wilbur wasn’t a good person should have gotten a reaction from wilbur. eret’s betrayal was what started his trust issues and spiral into paranoia. and yes, eret’s been over it all, we know they regret it. but i want wilbur to look at him and stand up for himself! i personally think wilbur had every right to hate eret for betraying their family and watching them be slaughtered in a tiny room like animals. but you know. maybe just me…

because did part of the betrayal get retconned? eret was manipulated by dream and was offered power and a crown and she took that offer in exchange for lmanberg to be brought to a room and had everything to their name be stripped from them. this turned into a slaughterhouse without his knowledge, but he didn’t do anything to stop it. it wasn’t a noble act he did to save the world. retconning it almost makes eret seem like they were in the right for it when they obviously weren’t.

another thing i wanna point out is how when wilbur said he was peaceful during lmanberg, eret just kind of laughs at him? and then tells him no you caused wars? first of all, no. no he did not. that was dream who declared war on like 2 chunks of land dedicated for 5 people because he’s a control freak. wilbur’s entire thing was no armor inside the walls. like seriously, this guy was going so far that he walked into the manberg pogtopia war with no armor or weapons. (could have been him being suicidal and planning to die that day, but tbh the point still stands)

but besides that, wilbur wasn’t exactly out of character, it’s just that he needs to develop. that’s the point of this arc, he’s redeeming himself and (hopefully) getting to heal. There are likely only 2-3 streams left for wilbur and i really don’t want this to feel rushed. he’s one of my favorite characters in any media Ever and for him to still sit there and take everything being thrown at him because he still hates himself is upsetting. and don’t get me wrong, a decent amount of eret’s criticisms were very valid and were a good wake up call, but some also weren’t.

one thing i did like however, was the bridge scene. i thought that eret having wilbur throw his unhealthy harmful coping mechanism away while she through away her crown which symbolized the betrayal was very good. i do enjoy both of these characters and think there were many good points do not get on me for this LMAO.

so that’s all i’m probably gonna say. they’re both very good actors and play their parts well, i just think some of it was written a bit strangely! (i also hope cc!wilbur is able to fit the end of his character’s arc in just a few streams. it still feels very incomplete to me.) (ok i’m done now)