#complex characters

[balletfilmss]

“we need more complex characters!”

yall still can’t handle luke castellan.

[asteriass]

Seeing people say Jinshi is not all that and how his relevance doesn’t make sense HURTS ME… 😓

Guys, he’s a complex character, trust me 💔💔  People often seem to forget that he’s not just a silly ‘airhead’ in love. Even Maomao MULTIPLE times acknowledges & mentions how scary and intelligent Jinshi is. Like, he realized Maomao was literate in the matter of a few mins and then he used that against her cuz he realized she must’ve been the one who warned Lady Gyoukyo

And then there’s just some people who hate him cuz he’s twisted & say that makes him a sh*tty leading character

Which i don’t get?? Of course the leads of a thriller mystery will be manipulative or sly. Or at the very least flawed to some capacity. Even Maomao herself is almost equally twisted and tends to be self serving Them both being flawed is what makes them intriguing characters. They both have their vices that they acknowledge - vices that add another layer of complexity upon their characters. Do you imagine how uninteresting this series would become if Jinshi was seriously JUST a silly lover boy and Maomao was a simple girl ready to help ANYTIME AND ANY DAY instead of being the way she is? This story’s charm comes not only just from the intriguing setting/mysteries but also how these flawed, yet interesting, characters act and think in said settings.

[azaasterblue]

mr incredible as a character is so interesting because unlike other main “good guys” his main drive is that he loves being a super hero. he’s fired from multiple jobs, uprooting his family every time, because of he can’t not be that guy. he listens to police scanners and coaches people through abusing the insurance company because he’s so desperate to get even a slice of that feeling. of course he likes helping people, sure, but he’s so desperate to be heroic he lets himself get reduced down to being muscle for hire to a crazy shady company just so that he can be mr incredible again. Like, how did we get here? what is his origin story? what made him like this? who taught him that his worth is synonymous with his heroism? with what his body can do? how did we get here.

[redpandavvstuffs]

"We need more clomplex female characters!!!"

Yall mfs couldn't even handle her 💀

[sunfyredefender77]

" We need more complex characters"

Proceeds to hate on complex characters

[scisetforever]

episode 6 of sex education has just fucked me up soooo badly - specifically the whole funeral sequence.

it’s so refreshing to see addicts as complex misunderstood characters who are also generous rather than straight up villains. i felt so bad for sean cuz i get how loved ones with addiction can seriously affect people, and it’s good that the creators put a character like him in the show to communicate that. i really liked how erin was portrayed in the show: complex but kind and caring and also horrible at times, but never a horrible person, and maeve understood that, and it’s clearer in the speech that she gave. the episode amazingly visualised the complexity off addiction and i fucking love the creators for portraying maeve, sean and erin as they did.

(couldn’t find a recent gif of maeve but she’s so amazing. i get why she loves complex female characters)

[oakwyrm]

Recently watched Mech Cadets and I've gotta say, I had a great time.

[iamafanofcartoons]

We need to address how media, and media critics, portray female characters poorly. What can be done about it? What are examples of media works that portray complex female characters well? What are writing tips for people trying to write complex female characters? Why do media critics hate on women?

Its just something I noticed.

Male writers drop the ball with female characters all the time. They'll give the men all the good lines but women get weak roles and no sense of humor. When we complain they then make a female character who has too many boyfriends and too much ego and too much power but no resourcefulness, or she's super powerful but still needs a man to save her, and of course they make her complain about everything and fight with everyone who helps her. I could go on and on.

A lot of people are incapable of viewing female characters as anything other than an innocent saint or a portrait of pure evil. Arguably the best characters are morally ambiguous ones who live in the gray area between good and evil, but women are much less often afforded that distinction than their male counterparts.

I'm been having a huge problem connecting to media. The only women around are very young or very old and their main defining feature is usually motherhood. If a woman my age exists who isn't a mom she's usually either obsessed with men or desperate to have a baby (or will be once the right dude comes along).

Fanfiction has great female characters , but you keep running into people who will only write a complex woman who's tied to a male main character.

Michael Burnham from Star Trek: Discovery . POC Female Protagonist. You probably have heard or seen a lot of hatred against.

Korra from The Legend Of Korra. Sequel Series to ATLA. POC Female Protagonist. Despite losing fights and suffering extreme trauma and making mistakes, critics passionately bash the show, calling her a Mary-Sue, and accusing the show of being Protagonist-Centered Morality.

A lot of the time if there is a military high ranking female character or just female leader that is masculine or butch she will be the villain to be defeated by the traditionally feminine or at least more feminine heroine/love interest of the hero. I hate this because it basically implies that a woman can only be good if she’s conventionally attractive or a love interest. It’s saying being butch is bad/evil.

Even movies trying to be feminist, like “Contact” which I had to watch for homework? With Jodie Foster from the 1990s told the brilliant, focused woman scientist to not be so “confrontational” (as two male characters stole credit for her work right after they stole her funding) and to be happy with “small moves.” They continued to pat her on the head and tell her to be quiet through the whole movie. The one time she even spoke to another woman was to ask where she could find a really pretty dress. This was supposed to show growth in her character arc.

If I recall correctly, one of the playable characters in the next release of the grand theft auto series is gonna be a women. People online were flipping out over this saying they are being too "woke", among other things. Its funny to me because there has been 5 gta games with only male protagonists, and now there's 1 female in it and suddenly its a problem. Its like these people think there are only 2 genders in games, male and woke.

Heck, people love basic trope laden protagonists..... until they are women.

People love unreasonably over powered characters that are loved or feared in equal measure by the entire cast..... until its a woman.

Then all of a sudden, she's a Mary-Sue and the show/game/book is "Protagonist-Centered Morality"

Some characters who are torn apart for their initial naïveté like Sansa Stark or Usagi Tsukino (Sailor Moon) are immediately written off as stupid girl characters. Never mind that one becomes a political powerhouse and the other routinely saves the world. People just write their characters off as too “girly” or “annoying” before they even have the chance to redeem themselves in their stories.

Feels like at it's core, people don't like women trying to build self confidence and play out power fantasies. The only difference with the original Mary Sue was that she was imagining being liked by everyone, which was every woman's dream back then and to a certain extent, now. The power was being well liked, and that made her annoyingly boring because there was no struggle for her. Men think struggle is needed, even in fantasies and dreams, but it isn't.

The term Mary-Sue gained a new popularity by shaming female characters (such as Rey, Galadriel, Captain Marvel,…). I am not saying the term is not used towards male characters as well, but it is more rare, and it is rarely as violent as when it is used to characterize a female character.

More importantly it is used against female characters unevenly compared to male characters, its accepted as a genre trope for a male character to be extremely capable or to acrue experience and ability rapidly throughout the narrative. But when it's a woman suddenly "realism" must apply, a real person doesn't simply gain strength and talent through endless perfectly leveled hardship. In simpler terms, Batman can launch a thug across the room with a single punch and it's awesome, Black Widow, however, is breaking the laws of physics when she does her famous around the neck takedown.

Neither are realistic, arguably any grown man launching another grown man bodily through the air with a casual punch is less realistic than a woman pulling off a skilled takedown, but the unequal application of standards says all that needs to be said about the critic.

Writing a "mary sue" to be male often results in a praised character that people don't really worry about. Like Goku or Kirito. People are fine with it. Enjoy it. And there's massive amounts of rather popular fanfiction taking random male characters in series and sue-ifying them, making them the protagonist over the actual main characters, and slapping in poorly developed romance arcs. It's "mary sue" 101, but hardly anyone talks about them in that light.

Meanwhile a woman shows a level of competence similar to another character in the same series (e.g. Rey to Luke or Anakin) and the accusations are everywhere.

Calling these characters one-dimensional is one of the dog-whistles of the modern [whatever]-gate colony creature.

They know that they'll get savaged if they come out and say they're mad because this character is a woman, so they couch everything in these subjective terms. She's one-dimensional. She's flat. She's badly written. She's a mary sue. I just couldn't relate to her.

You can argue with them, you can point out that, say, in Star Wars, that Rey's ability to handle weapons intentionally established in the early scenes of TFA, that we see the setup for the skills she's going to display later in the movie/series, and that her first win is against a badly wounded Sith apprentice. By contrast, Luke successfully fights his way through a huge space station against professional soldiers, then hops into a starfighter he's never flown before, outflies a bunch of experienced pilots, and pulls off a physically impossible shot to save the day.

But sure. Rey is the one who strains credulity.

You can point all that out, but none of it matters. They're not arguing in good faith. They're just mad that there's a girl, and know better than to say that out loud.

He pulls off the shot because he has a throwaway line about murdering animals the size of a camel for fun in his civilian craft that just so happens to have controls similar to the military superiority fighter because they were manufactured by the same company. Because that doesn't strain credibility. Also guess which parts were filled in later by novel writers who were like, "holy **** that makes no sense at all"

Sailor Moon and Sansa Stark are two female characters that start out as whiney cry-baby girlie girls who evolve into political powerhouses and heroes in their own right. But most people write their characters off immediately, because they’re disgusted by their girlish-ness.

While our media gives male characters a chance to grow, female characters are generally written off unless they either show masculine traits, or are used for fan service. It’s why women in movies and TV are usually a kickass tomboy or a girlfriend character.

So anyway, I guess my point is that there are amazing kickass women characters who are well-written and evolve and grow, but their growth tends to be written off as frivolous and not as cool as their dude counterparts.

Imagine an anime where the woman is the main character and she's strong, smart, and not sexualized ?

How about Guardian of the Spirit (seirei no moribito in Japanese)? The MC is a mercenary woman who fights with a spear. She's a complex character, maybe somewhat emotionally stunted because of growing up on the road. She meets a wonderful, compassionate male healer and I love how they break stereotypical gender roles. There's also a complete badass old lady with magical powers and a temper. One of my favourite characters in any genre.

But I'd like to add SuleMio to the list.

Some people did not like that Gundam had its first female protagonist last year, or that she's engaged to another girl, or that they have a romantic moment where Miorine makes Suletta "promise to be with me forever".

It's my first Gundam show and I was nowhere near the fandom, but even I heard the howls of rage from the otakus over that show while it was airing.

“ I highly recommend reading Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson. Strong female main character with a supportive cast of male characters. His Skyward series is also good for this.  Sanderson is great but there are some female fantasy writers that do this even better IMO. NK Jemisin has tons of great female characters. Tamsyn Muir’s Locked Tomb series has a majority female cast and I’d say 4 or 5 of them are in the top ten most interesting and complex female characters I’ve read. “

You heard of The Bechdel test: Two women have to talk about something other than a man. There is no time window. It came up in a 1985 comic Dykes To Watch Out For and although it is not a great indicator of more feminist content, it's a wonder much media fails to pass that test.

Have you seen

Arcane? That is a wild crazy masterpiece with awesomely complex awesome characters. It's animated, yeah, so what? But I mean, to say "it's animated" is a heavy  understatement. Have you seen Jinx? Have you seen her portrayal of psychosis and godknows what else was happening in her head? No one in history came even close to that.

Queen's Gambit? Anya Taylor-Joy brought Beth Harmon flawlessly through immense complexity of the character

Mare of Easttown - Kate Winslet there is, I kid you not, the best acting I have ever seen. Her character is going through complex situations and emotions and learning to deal with her human side. Bryan Cranston raised the bar ridiculously high with Walter White, but Kate Winslet pushed it further up, set explosives on it, and walked away like a badass without looking at the explosion. No one is topping that anytime soon.

I'm sure there are more examples. But what I love about these, and a big part of what makes them perfect is that they are their own characters and aren't defined by men around them. Their greatn

I wish female characters were given better in terms of development and characterization. Honestly, I feel like a lot of people hate female characters simply because most male dominated media does such a poor job of writing women, and those characters aren't given the same excuses as poorly written male characters.

Anyway, yeah, sorry for my rant. Having grown up on Anime, Harry Potter, Star Wars, you name it?

I later in life realized what was missing, what is needed, and really needed to hear other people's input on this stuff.

I never understood the need for every main character to be only a cishet white guy. I had already come up with several characters of my own, all of them LGBTQIA+, and half of them women, and several also POC. But my writing and art skills are poor so I can't visualize them properly...

We need more female authors, and we need to promote the ones that are out there more!

(there are plenty of really, really good female authors, in all genres, but often they get less attention, because, well, misogyny)

Edit: If you want an example of how the double-standard towards women and LGBT is applied? Go watch RWBY or Legend of Korra. Both involve a deconstruction of tropes. Both involve women standing up against an authority that demands respect based on being authority, not based on respect. Both shut down the white male savior trope so hard, that men and women who love the patriarchy despise both shows.

But of course, anything that Team RWBY or Korra does is immediately held to a double standard and ripped into for anything that they do NOT because they’re flawed or because of writing decisions. Its because they’re LGBT women that they’re held under a microscope. Or have you noticed that every fixit fanfic for both series involves defending the Patriarchy while supporting toxic masculinity and trying to revive the White Male Savior trope that both shows have tried so hard to bury six feet under?

[augustinestears]

"we need more complex characters" please, you couldn't even handle THEM.

[marinlupin]

i’m not that type of marauders fan or any fan in general that hates dark complex characters, and needs everyone to be good and the hero. i love dark marauders, i love morally grey people, the people that makes bad decisions because they want to, not just because they’re angry or feel betrayed. LET CHARACTERS BE BAD AND MORALLY QUESTIONING I BEG.

[abybweisse]

Hello there, I'm really interested in your theories so there's something I wanna discuss about ^^

Is Undertaker really that evil? I mean it's really hard to tell what kind of trope he is bc never in my life I've seen a character that is THIS morally gray or complex which makes me very fascinated by his character, what do you think? 🤔

Undertaker evil?

I don't think he's truly evil, just so desperate that he's making some very questionable -- sometimes downright objectionable -- decisions.

Even Yana-san says he's not the villain. He's like an antihero but as an antagonist, instead of as the protagonist. It's like he should really have his own main story, but it's been set to the side. Hopefully we'll get some major flashbacks from him, so we can get into his POV for a little while. Even though he's done some terrible stuff, I hope the backstory we get for him isn't just his cinematic records... though I don't expect him to survive the series. 😢 (Kind of like Snape in HP.)

Somewhere, I also have old posts about literary archetypes, and I discuss the one he fits best. Soul: Creator. But, if you search my blog for "archetype", this and other posts on that topic will come up. Keep in mind that each archetype has its own strengths and weaknesses; the Soul: Creator archetype includes the weaknesses of perfectionism... while still coming up with bad solutions... and I see Undertaker doing this, as he's trying to create and perfect these most advanced bizarre dolls.

[rach-amber]

I know she's supposed to be a mystery girl, but honestly a DLC on Rachel's back story from her own pov would be pretty interesting as well. @lifeisstrange-blog (Or, someone write a fic on this !! x)

Her personality & life in Long Beach, Cali (attending dance lessons and so on... developing a love of acting)...

"I broke my wrist when I was ten." "Hella"

Rachel moving to Arcadia, her Dad becoming the DA, homesickness and how a new life in Arcadia affected her.

Her extraordinary performances & auditions from a young age.

Rachel developing her charmeleon skills and tasting the sweet benefits that resulted.

Her love of nature and acting.

Rachel developing her mistrusting tendencies because of her parents--

"They're good at coming off that way. But don't let your guard down."

"Just.. hurry back. I'm not sure I can keep this up." (Or sth to that effect) - Chloe

"Try doing it your whole life."

Her and Rose Amber.

Rachel suspecting something's off with James & how come her hair colour doesn't match her parents'.

Her developing a wild side no one knows-- e.g. punk music & dancing in clubs

Rachel's obsession with stars, astrology, and travelling.

Her spending an exhausting amount of effort to meet the different expectations people have on her. Academics. Friendship. Family.

Rachel visiting Paris with her parents.

Her identity crises.

Rachel noticing Chloe. Developing a slight crush. Realising she's also into girls.

Maybe throw in how she became good/"experienced" at romancing?? (Hinted at from the magazine on her desk, "kiss me Kate" poster, Stepladder convo "because, he climbs on your mom every night", and ofc the kiss scene in bts)

Tie in with Bts.

So much to explore. That is the iceberg of Life is Strange.

I dunno. Many won't buy it, but I definitely will. I guess I'm a bit too obsessed with this character.

[remarcely]

I didn't like Sylvie in S1, mostly because of the whole sylki thing, but S2 has made me her number 1 defender.

It blows my mind that people watched the show and went away with 'wow, Sylvie's a bitch' because it just reeks of misogyny and not having the capacity to understand a complex character.

Sylvie, since the age of 10-ish, has been fleeing a constant threat to her existence and grew up in apocalypses. She couldn't have anything permanent other than herself because she has to keep moving and anything she leaves behind is destroyed. No friends, no family, and no universe of her own.

Then she gets put in a room with the one guy who ruined her entire life and countless others, of course she's going to be determined to kill him. She started as a scared child, it makes sense that she became and angry adult. Nothing, not even Loki begging her, could stop He Who Remain(ed)s death.

And lets be honest he deserved it.

Then in the finale, she watches a variant of herself and a friend she faced hell along side sentence himself to an eternity of sitting on a throne, holding the multiverse in place. Loki gave everyone a chance to live and, most importantly, a choice. To stay at the TVA or go home. Verity (Hunter B-15) and Frank (Casey) chose to stay, Mobius found it too difficult without Loki and left, and Sylvie's choice was obvious.

It's unfair to be angry at her for showing happiness in the finale. Time has clearly passed since Loki left, though we're not shown how much, of course she's managed to move on. I don't see anyone pissed off at B-15 for continuing with their life? What about Casey or Ouroboros?

Also, we saw Sylvie's face as Loki made his sacrifice.

Does she look happy to you?

That is a face of horror and distress as she watches yet another person in her life essentially give up his freedom while she survives.

Do you ever think about the survivors guilt Sylvie has? That in all of the apocalypses she hid in, she saw men, women, and children be killed knowing she technically could save them but it would make them a variant and doom them further. That she is the only one from her own universe that wasn't reset, making her the lone survivor of her world?

Even with the infinite possibility for the future multiverse, those worlds will have their own Sylvie. There's no place for her there, so she has to make her own somewhere else.

From the end of Season 1 to most of Season 2, Sylvie has been fighting for the chance to live a normal life. When she gets it, through such suffering and loss, is she really supposed to be miserable forever because one person is gone? She quite literally got the only thing she's ever wanted, that's got to give her a lot of relief.

Don't be the person to think 'this silly woman gets between my gay ship, brrrr rage what a bitch' or take her as one dimensional.

She's selfish because she's sacrificed everything she had, I think by now she's allowed to be. Sophia Di Martino did a wonderful job and deserves to have her character be enjoyed and understood, not labelled as annoying and 'the real villain'.

Some people only paid mind to the shipping when watching the show, ignoring the plot, and it really shows.

[feelingthedisaster]

The Ultimate Character Guide

Even if you are not going to use some of this, getting to know your character will make writing them way more easy.

General info

Gender/Pronouns

Age

How do they talk?

Nicknames? Where does it come from?

Quirks

Personality. Shaped by what?

Charms

Current situation. Why?

Childhood

Reputation. What happen?

Habits. Why?

Biggest challenge.

How do they face said challenge? Avoid it or confront it?

Morals. Shaped by what?

Strenghts. Why is it their strenght? Moment when it was shown.

Weaknesses. Why is it their weakness? Moment when it was shown

Is the character relatable? Or at least, easy to sympathize with? Moment when it was shown

Childhood ideals/morals. How have they changed.

Diference between their thoughts and what they said out loud.

The story

Motivations

Obstacule to their final goals

What do they do about it?

How do they change during the story?

Their relationship with what is happening to them.

When and how is their first appearence in the story?

When and how is their final appearence in the story?

Situation/Mental state at the beggining of the story

Situation/Mental State at the middle of the story

Situation/Mental state at the end of the story

Looks

Species (for fantasy-ish stories)

Race/Ethnicity

Skin tone

Eye Colour

Type of hair and its colour

Type of body

Height

Firsts impressions (relating to the way they look)

Characteristic features (something that make them recognizable)

Clothing style (both for casual and work)

Accesories they often wear

Social/Work Life

How do they behave when they are with strangers? And with friends? Special Other? When nobody is looking?

Do they have a job. Why that job? Are they happy with it?

Relationship with authority figures and peers (and in the work space, their subordinates)

What are their worries about the future?

Personal Life

Are there any values that they dont share, but family members, friends, coworkers, etc have?

Family structure

Who do they consider their friends? Do those people share the same feeling? Who is actually their friend?

Are they married or have a romantic interest? How is their relationship?

Any ex-partners?

Relationship with parents. What happened between them?

Relationship with siblings (if they have any). What happened between them?

Relationship with neighbours/roommates/coworkers/anyone in their everyday life that isnt really relevant.

Relationship with their bestfriend (if they have any). What happened between them?

Relationship with other friends (if they have any). What happened between them?

Relationship with their enemy/antagonist. What happened between them?

Private Life

What are their morals? What is wrong and right in their worldview? Shaped by what?

What do they do when they are alone?

What do they do in their free time?

What do they love? Why?

What do they fear? Why?

What do they hate? Why?

What do they aspire to be/do? Why?

Reactions to... (and why do they react that way)

Affection

Insults

Betrayal

Death of a love one

Injury

Surprises

Failure

Achivements/Wins

A true they dont want to hear

Animals/Pets

Comfort

Other people crying

Kids

[linovich]

Every single fictional complex female character will always get some sort of hate and it's always deeply rooted by some sort of misogyny instead of their actions. and when you CONFRONT someone about it and give actual reasons, They create excuses faster than Usain bolt can hit a mile PLEASEEE.

[sunfyredefender77]

Fuck I love complex characters sm